**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 12 02:59:58 2012 Jul 12 03:03:39 Well. I use IM on both N900 and now N9 and it just kills the battery life ;/ Jul 12 03:06:35 But I really miss my N900. Jul 12 03:24:58 btw: DocScrutinizer some porn for you: http://www.flickr.com/photos/travisgoodspeed/sets/72157625055541964/with/5988899172/ Jul 12 03:35:05 louis__: yea - battery life is a big issue - I have a little 2xAA charger, but even that will not top up enough for 24 hours use Jul 12 03:35:42 With stock kernel, some of those 2xaa things can actually end up drawing more power on the device than they contribute Jul 12 03:35:45 louis__: and the more fancy software you run - the more battery it munches Jul 12 03:36:11 ShadowJK: yea - you have to be careful ;) Jul 12 03:36:52 Because with stock kernel there's extra 80-100mA power draw whenever anything at all is connected to usb port Jul 12 03:37:15 anyone still uses the stock kernel? :) Jul 12 03:37:16 with powerkernel this doesn't happen if you connect chargers Jul 12 03:37:34 louis__: I run my n900 with minimal screen lighting, shortest time off, etc, but the real issue is gprs/wifi -- it totally gobbles battery Jul 12 03:38:42 with some tweaks and power kernel one can get okish runtimes Jul 12 03:39:01 gprs and wifi are pretty low consumption for me, on my main device on which I run xchat and many many channels, I'd get about 20 hours or more of standby Jul 12 03:39:04 of course, more would be better Jul 12 03:39:18 wifi takes a lot when listening to webradio Jul 12 03:39:21 or about 3 days without stuff running Jul 12 03:39:47 (including playing mp3) Jul 12 03:40:10 uh, yes :) Jul 12 03:40:19 You're looking at 4-6 hours there Jul 12 03:40:21 also cell switchen where gprs is bad covered costs a lot power Jul 12 03:40:38 Yeah I noticed I was burning through power like crazy on gprs when I was out at sea Jul 12 03:41:06 cycling trough the black forrest is already bad enough :P Jul 12 03:41:21 The forrest here has rather good coverage on gsm Jul 12 03:41:24 cehteh: yea - I often switch to ofline mode when travelling Jul 12 03:42:14 fwiw the mains charger can often not keep up with consumption Jul 12 03:42:35 That's really exceptional in my experience Jul 12 03:42:55 At that rate the N900 should be getting quite warm too Jul 12 03:43:18 it does ;) Jul 12 03:43:38 That must be atrociously bad coverage :) Jul 12 03:43:46 Or IM/IRC on 3g Jul 12 03:43:47 it is ;) Jul 12 03:44:07 2.5G with very patchy coverage even when standing still Jul 12 03:44:15 Well it's like, one bar from full doubles power consumption, approx :) Jul 12 03:44:36 in my experience Jul 12 03:44:41 2 bars showing atm,,,,, Jul 12 03:44:58 so 3 down - Jul 12 03:45:19 octuplets the consumption ? :( Jul 12 03:46:19 At some point it just goes slower instead Jul 12 03:46:25 data transfer Jul 12 03:46:38 it does that too :( Jul 12 03:47:03 I'm in the realm of bytes/s Jul 12 05:16:36 https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/mobile/ Jul 12 05:16:49 it's so nice, except it's just for Android and iOS :( Jul 12 05:17:27 eddyb: android emulation layer gogogogo Jul 12 05:17:47 kerio: the only problem with that is Java Jul 12 05:17:55 the more Java, the slower and crappier it gets Jul 12 05:18:12 meh, JITs are pretty fast Jul 12 05:18:44 yeah, but, it's a mess of different things Jul 12 05:18:51 anyway, what's NITdroid? Jul 12 05:19:30 a miserable little pile of secrets Jul 12 05:19:35 and by secrets i mean binary blobs Jul 12 05:19:49 it's android for nokia internet tablets Jul 12 05:19:59 aka the worst of both worlds Jul 12 05:20:17 but is it a full OS or just a compat layer? Jul 12 05:20:29 it's a full OS Jul 12 05:20:36 it's android Jul 12 05:27:03 meh... Jul 12 05:27:41 kerio: wait, chrom{e,ium} doesn't have a single line of Java in it Jul 12 05:28:00 i really hope it's completely native code Jul 12 05:28:16 the version for android either has a platform-specific layer (maybe Java) or it just uses X Jul 12 05:28:54 (and any other generic linux stuff) Jul 12 05:29:34 the problem with Google Play is that you need attached devices Jul 12 05:30:53 CURRENT VERSION: 18.0.1025123 << and it's also old Jul 12 05:33:59 https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html lol, google is trying everything Jul 12 05:34:36 oh god, it's a mac mini with a crappier OS Jul 12 05:35:44 I wouldn't say crappier OS, but rather "crazy architecture" Jul 12 05:36:20 they took linux, put chrome on top of it, and written all the apps in HTML5 Jul 12 05:40:51 i would say crappier OS Jul 12 05:41:53 it's a cool concept, but you have to trail a lot of usb cables around with it, or spare batteries for your bluetooth mouse, kbd, etc Jul 12 05:44:24 kerio: it's not even an OS Jul 12 05:44:31 it's a linux kernel and a browser :)) Jul 12 05:45:09 maybe a X server and a few other things in between, but it's still different from your average OS Jul 12 05:46:11 Hmmm -- seems to be pretty much closed - no commandline or suchlike Jul 12 05:51:16 why the fuck does qtmobilehotspot need rootsh for? Jul 12 05:51:38 rootsh is a fuckup of the gainroot script for interactive use Jul 12 05:51:51 it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to use it in a programmatic way Jul 12 06:43:33 chrome os is pretty much useless in these days of smartphones Jul 12 06:43:48 if you are going to carry around a netbook, you might as well install a real OS on it Jul 12 07:11:34 created a ext4 partition on sdcard, but cant mount it. error report says invalid argument Jul 12 07:20:56 modprobe ext4 Jul 12 10:13:39 kerio: ack Jul 12 10:14:42 kerio: reason: developer didn't know how sudo works Jul 12 10:47:43 how does one save in dungeon master/chaos strikes back? ;) Jul 12 10:48:41 hehe ... i once started it and remembered looong ago when i played the original on amiga Jul 12 10:49:08 ('89 or when was that?) Jul 12 10:55:56 ah, *there* it was Jul 12 11:04:00 Timmy, update to last CSSU, it will automount any partition on SD card (ext4 too) Jul 12 12:29:24 DocScrutinizer: i gave in ._. Jul 12 12:29:46 i installed rootsh and set sudo to ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL Jul 12 12:29:50 i feel dirty Jul 12 12:36:38 and right so, it IS dirty Jul 12 12:40:52 any package depending on rootsh, and particularly on a silly deprecated and already fixed afaik security-nuking property of rootsh should get a ticket and get removed from extras Jul 12 12:42:21 * DocScrutinizer05 silently prays MohammadAG did "the right thing" for h-e-n X-P Jul 12 12:43:59 iirc h-e-n changes own process to root - not exactly nice but still better than messing up (or relying on already messed up) sudoers for everybody and his dog Jul 12 12:45:04 with ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL we could nuke sudoers all together, since this is actually the only line you'll ever need ;-P Jul 12 12:45:32 and malware heaven Jul 12 12:47:29 DocScrutinizer05: malware heaven. Jul 12 12:47:32 n900 Jul 12 12:47:35 lols Jul 12 12:50:23 vi_: sure thing - if all an arbitrary rogue JS webpage needs to do is call arbitrary "echo foobar >/etc/hosts" via sudo, then I call this malware heaven, even on N900 Jul 12 12:50:51 ... Jul 12 12:51:03 webpage JS cannot run shell commands. Jul 12 12:51:23 meh Jul 12 12:55:15 ~ $ id Jul 12 12:55:17 uid=29999(user) gid=29999(users) Jul 12 12:55:18 ~ $ root Jul 12 12:55:19 Password: Jul 12 12:55:21 ~ $ sudo /sbin/hwclock Jul 12 12:55:23 Password: Jul 12 12:56:04 yeah I know you could still invoke HAM and install whatever shit you like, to break that Jul 12 12:58:15 but I never would trust any pkg/app that barfs up on this and requires me to change that to >>ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL<< Jul 12 13:00:04 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to secure HAM with a HDsudo wrapper Jul 12 13:01:33 so each time HAM gets invoked, you need to enter your root password into a (e.g. zenity) textbox requester Jul 12 13:06:18 DocScrutinizer05: why just HAM? Jul 12 13:10:45 what else? Jul 12 13:11:00 no fapman here ;-P Jul 12 13:11:11 DocScrutinizer05: :c Jul 12 13:11:19 well, everything that requires superuser, maybe Jul 12 13:11:35 and no other tool that would allow gaining root Jul 12 13:12:02 the thing about rootsh, is that it changes a system file Jul 12 13:12:08 or, rather Jul 12 13:12:12 it changes a file that belongs to another package Jul 12 13:12:25 via deb scripts Jul 12 13:12:28 hmm? Jul 12 13:12:31 which is a big no Jul 12 13:12:42 DocScrutinizer05: /usr/sbin/gainroot is something maemoific Jul 12 13:12:55 that checks for rd-mode before allowing you in Jul 12 13:13:13 rootsh substitutes that for a different scripts, that just allows you in Jul 12 13:13:57 well, just because rootsh has no *proper* etc/sudoers.d/* file Jul 12 13:14:02 check Jul 12 13:14:05 ~jrtools Jul 12 13:14:06 jrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jul 12 13:14:11 for how to fix that Jul 12 13:14:16 no, no, you can always sudo gainroot Jul 12 13:14:21 it's there in 01sudo, or something Jul 12 13:14:39 check ~jrtools Jul 12 13:14:43 less /usr/sbin/gainroot.old Jul 12 13:14:55 DocScrutinizer05: i am aware of how sudo works, tyvm Jul 12 13:15:14 so what's your point then? Jul 12 13:16:07 my point is that rootsh*.deb has no place in any apt repository ever Jul 12 13:16:17 :shrug: Jul 12 13:18:47 you can ship an update, to 1 mio devices Jul 12 13:19:25 i can what? Jul 12 13:19:26 that doesn't change /usr/sbin/gainroot but rather installs /usr/sbin/gainroot-too Jul 12 13:19:48 and makes "root" call gainroot-too --use-su? Jul 12 13:19:55 meh Jul 12 13:19:57 sure Jul 12 13:20:02 the idea behind rootsh is flawed anyway Jul 12 13:20:31 the idea behinf busybox is flawed Jul 12 13:20:44 no Jul 12 13:20:48 the idea behind busybox is solid Jul 12 13:21:11 tiny shell for shellscripts on small embedded devices with very low resources Jul 12 13:21:16 yeah, esp regarding busybox su Jul 12 13:21:18 it's just that it's not a good idea for the n900 Jul 12 13:21:22 hm, what does it do? Jul 12 13:23:13 well, su binary obviously needs suid to work. Now in busybox su is busybox Jul 12 13:23:23 I don't like busybox to be set suid Jul 12 13:24:02 oh, i see Jul 12 13:24:03 hmm Jul 12 13:24:27 well, it's not really a big deal if busybox is written properly Jul 12 13:24:36 HAHAHA Jul 12 13:25:46 no, seriously :( Jul 12 13:25:46 sure, it's hard enough to make sure and validate code for small binaries with suid, so there are no exploits Jul 12 13:26:28 for busybox I'm sure it's a matter of hours to be 100% convinced I can trust in it Jul 12 13:27:34 DocScrutinizer05: compile it statically, have it drop privileges right at the beginning of main() if it's not called for "su" Jul 12 13:27:51 yayaya Jul 12 13:28:07 I know how to drop privileges, tyvm Jul 12 13:29:08 anyway, i'm really sad that i don't have a working cleven because of KP51 Jul 12 13:29:28 dammit Pali, y u no push update to repo y(y°#°)y Jul 12 13:29:39 s/y(/(/ Jul 12 13:29:39 kerio meant: dammit Pali, y u no push update to repo (y°#°)y Jul 12 13:32:52 ...cleven works fine. Jul 12 13:32:53 dammit kerio, because he is doing the right thing, and u r asking for the wrong thing Jul 12 13:33:32 DocScrutinizer05: I believe he should use the development repo for what it was intended for. Jul 12 13:33:52 debatable Jul 12 13:33:54 Instead of just hosting random .deb files on his blog. Jul 12 13:34:23 I tend to agree with you, but only in general Jul 12 13:34:55 vi_: yeah but KP51 includes the backported drivers, and it conflicts with the package that cleven depends on Jul 12 13:35:04 since KP been stuck in promotion to testing for so long, everybody got used to KP living in devel Jul 12 13:36:20 so it was either a bad dpkg situation, or no cleven Jul 12 13:36:35 IOW nobody is using the extras(-testing) versions of KP, so you would break KP for a _lot_ of users that rely on it working stable from extras-devel Jul 12 13:36:45 DocScrutinizer05: 1850's Americana was used to the slave trade. It does not make it right. Jul 12 13:37:06 vi_: I'll simply ignore that Jul 12 13:37:14 DocScrutinizer05: Well they should wise the fuck up and stop living on the bleeding edge if they cannot handle it. Jul 12 13:37:24 [...] stable from extras-devel Jul 12 13:39:29 and really, does anyone actually use anything but -devel? Jul 12 13:39:53 i mean, anyone who likes to dick around with this kind of stuff Jul 12 13:40:16 "baaahaaawhaaa!! booohooo! I installed a 'broken' PK from a random blog, and now the maintainer refuses to ship the very KP via estras-devel so I could FIX it" - suuuure Jul 12 13:40:33 i never said boohoo Jul 12 13:40:34 :( Jul 12 13:40:54 FWIW, I do not have kp51. Jul 12 13:40:55 but yeah, i see Jul 12 13:53:38 kerio: if there are problems with dependencies, we should try to find a solution for that by fixing the dependencies Jul 12 13:54:16 DocScrutinizer05: well, linux-kernel-backported-modules or whatever doesn't really conflict with kp51 Jul 12 13:54:38 so i don't really see why Pali made it so Jul 12 13:54:45 unless the modules depended on a particular KP version Jul 12 13:54:50 in which case... \_o_/ Jul 12 13:55:35 kerio, each kernel module is compiled for one kernel version Jul 12 13:55:48 hm, makes sense Jul 12 13:55:58 but if you do not make a lot of changes in kernel modules from other version will work too Jul 12 13:56:11 but must be loaded with force option (to ignore version string) Jul 12 13:56:18 DocScrutinizer05: cleven expects the modules to be in a particular place, which is not the default location (where they *should* be) Jul 12 13:57:18 perhaps the next linux-backports-modules-power should depend strictly on kp51 and just add the symlinks for the wifi modules Jul 12 13:57:48 and it should be marked deprecated/for backwards compat only Jul 12 13:58:45 well, the probelm seems to be that cleven comes with kernel modules at all Jul 12 13:58:52 aiui Jul 12 13:59:26 it doesn't Jul 12 13:59:32 it depends on linux-backports-modules-power Jul 12 13:59:37 which makes sense Jul 12 13:59:37 ish Jul 12 13:59:57 the fact that it comes with a script to load said modules is the problem, i suppose Jul 12 13:59:58 it rather should depend on a kernel property, that is provided by a separate kernelmodule pkg, or by PK51+ Jul 12 14:01:23 oooh, I see, it unloads original modules and modprobes the tweaked ones, only during runtime of cleven? Jul 12 14:02:09 well, it has a button to toggle that Jul 12 14:02:20 but yeah Jul 12 14:03:27 * DocScrutinizer05 hmmms Jul 12 14:04:15 DocScrutinizer05: KP should standardize the injection load/unload/query Jul 12 14:04:15 oh hey, Pali made a shellscript for that! Jul 12 14:04:15 how convenient Jul 12 14:04:18 Pali: does KP51 ship with both original and tweaked wifi modules? or only with the tweaked ones? Jul 12 14:04:49 ok, that answers my question I'd guess Jul 12 14:05:11 DocScrutinizer05: both, the weird ones are blacklisted Jul 12 14:05:13 Pali's shellscript is not shipped with kp51 though Jul 12 14:06:00 kerio: basically you need a new version of cleven for KP51 Jul 12 14:06:09 yeah Jul 12 14:06:23 but how do we make it so that we don't necessarily need a new version of cleven for new versions of KP? Jul 12 14:06:35 from cleven's next version onwards, i mean Jul 12 14:06:57 well, I think KP52 will ship with same script of pali as this one (doesn't yet) Jul 12 14:07:24 yeah, so Pali should step forward and say "ok, this is how you load/unload the injection drivers" Jul 12 14:07:25 so the "API'" should stay stable Jul 12 14:07:33 yep Jul 12 14:07:52 if eventually we decide injection doesn't need loading anymore, just make those noops for two or three KP versions, marked deprecated, and then remove the script, i s'pose Jul 12 14:08:01 and cleven needs fix to use that method Jul 12 14:08:07 yep Jul 12 14:08:22 i'm still not sure why we can't use the cool drivers for everything, though :( Jul 12 14:08:55 lxp said they might miss bugfixes Jul 12 14:09:03 hm :( Jul 12 14:09:06 are the stock modules closed-source? Jul 12 14:10:08 i mean, the proper nokia ones Jul 12 14:11:13 I'd just be a brave user and make a noop of the unloading script, and test the tweaked wifi drivers for 'normal' use several weeks. after some users done that, we might consider them "stable" enough for replacing the original ones Jul 12 14:14:19 DocScrutinizer05, both normal (in /lib) & packet injection (in /opt) Jul 12 14:15:30 Pali: do you do switching via placklisting? Jul 12 14:15:34 I have loaded packet injection 2 days, but it drain battery Jul 12 14:15:39 black* Jul 12 14:15:48 :-( Jul 12 14:16:01 so packet injection are usefull only for hacking... for normal use is better stock wifi driver Jul 12 14:16:32 I seem to recall that's been a major problem with those wifi drivers since pr1.0 Jul 12 14:17:52 the problem is the wifi chip firmware doesn't support proper low power / shutdown mode Jul 12 14:18:01 iirc Jul 12 14:18:33 swicthing is done via rmmod & insmod /full/path Jul 12 14:18:38 so the chip is always in scan mode Jul 12 14:19:21 maybe some iwconfig/iw command can fix it? Jul 12 14:19:48 some time back during pr1.1 or so we had a botch for this problem by unloading the drivers for the time ICD2 didn't scan for AP Jul 12 14:20:54 (iw coomand) possible, or even rfkill Jul 12 14:21:26 but I actually think Nokia implemented a patch to the wlan drivers to cope with that Jul 12 14:24:20 DocScrutinizer05: different colors would be useful... now it is steady but emergency charging^^ Jul 12 14:24:58 chem|st: ECHAN, but yes, steady also means "charging finished" Jul 12 14:25:13 DocScrutinizer05: just recognized... Jul 12 14:44:02 ping lxp Jul 12 14:58:35 DocScrutinizer05, maybe this patch helps: http://git.popipo.fr/?p=rt2x00.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=ab13315af97919fae0e014748105fdc2e30afb2d Jul 12 15:10:20 Pali: this patch sure isn't bad, but I don't think it helps with massive powerdrain during wlan not associated to AP Jul 12 15:11:13 maybe rebasing lxp patches on top of wireless-testing will help Jul 12 15:11:51 is there a way to just add packet injection to the current drivers? Jul 12 15:14:19 Pali: good plan I guess Jul 12 16:06:46 all devices of same platform like N97 had micro USB charging problem or is it the only N900? Jul 12 16:15:15 jean_brat: hmm? Jul 12 16:15:27 n97 is not same platform as n900 Jul 12 16:15:49 n900 has no USB charging problems, not really Jul 12 16:16:09 n900 has *flashing* problems when battery low Jul 12 16:16:56 and n900 (like basically any arbitrary other device) won't charge (properly) with messed up software/firmware Jul 12 16:18:44 so you can find yourself in a deadlock beween device not charging low battery due to messed firmware, and device not flashing proper firmware due to low battery Jul 12 16:19:35 is there a way from the deadlock? Jul 12 16:19:39 other than that, no charging problems known with N900 Jul 12 16:19:56 yes, edheldil. get a charged battery ;-D Jul 12 16:20:36 as, you know... N900 you can swap battery Jul 12 16:20:47 hehe, you are right Jul 12 16:33:17 DocScrutinizer05: well, isn't the emergency charging supposed to fix that problem? Jul 12 16:33:20 ~ish Jul 12 16:33:25 nononono Jul 12 16:33:27 infobot: don't you dare Jul 12 16:33:47 no Jul 12 16:34:12 emergency charging charges up to 3.7V only, for safety reasons Jul 12 16:34:28 isn't that high enough to flash? Jul 12 16:34:40 let's say everything is completely messed up Jul 12 16:34:47 isn't that high enough to coldflash? Jul 12 16:34:51 after that the main system is supposed to come up and support charging, if only by telling the charger "no go on, til 4.2" Jul 12 16:35:06 now* Jul 12 16:35:51 alas, according to Nokia's eternal wisdom, that's enough for starting NOLO but not enough to allow NOLO to enter flashing mode Jul 12 16:35:59 hahaha nice Jul 12 16:36:16 i thought coldflashing was less finicky Jul 12 16:36:30 you can tell by "NOKIA" screen not showing USB icon upper right despite you holding "u" Jul 12 16:37:43 well, coldflashing means "ROMBL loads NOLO to RAM" it does that unconditionally. NFC what the NOLO in RAM will do then Jul 12 16:38:24 hm Jul 12 16:38:32 My guess though would be: it acts exactly as screwed as the NAND-based NOLO Jul 12 16:38:33 so you *can* completely bork it Jul 12 16:38:39 i see Jul 12 16:39:35 screwed here means: when NOLO detects battery is low, it doesn't allow flashing and rather tries to boot to linux, to start proper charging :o) Jul 12 16:40:00 is NOLO flashable? Jul 12 16:40:31 trying to charge when battery is critically low for flashing is a sane idea... if only NOLO wouldn't rely on linux/rootfs for charging Jul 12 16:41:01 sure is NOLO flashable. That's what coldflashing is all about Jul 12 16:41:47 but alas NOLO is closed source, so we couldn't fix this annoyance, even if we wanted to Jul 12 16:42:02 isn't flashing like, *really* fast? Jul 12 16:42:20 eh? Jul 12 16:42:22 i mean, how much battery do you actually need for it? Jul 12 16:42:32 flashing combined+vanilla never took long, here Jul 12 16:42:35 not that much indeed Jul 12 16:43:06 on N9 NOLO learnt to charge Jul 12 16:43:20 aww, i'm so proud :') Jul 12 16:43:28 :-P Jul 12 16:43:42 is the NOLO closedness enforced? Jul 12 16:43:51 or it's just that nobody wants to dick around with it because you risk a brick? Jul 12 16:44:48 ask Nokia Jul 12 16:45:02 i mean, *could* you flash something else there? Jul 12 16:45:24 yes, you could Jul 12 16:45:47 actually people did Jul 12 16:45:59 NOLO with tweaked splashscreen Jul 12 16:46:59 hehe, i want someone to write a NOLO replacement called YOLO Jul 12 16:46:59 I'm not eager to hexedit a charger routine into NOLO binary Jul 12 16:47:04 just to piss people off Jul 12 16:47:47 DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to flash NOLO that doesn't involve running it? Jul 12 16:48:08 errr wut? Jul 12 16:48:14 say, a way to unbrick a botched NOLO Jul 12 16:48:24 ==coldflashing Jul 12 16:48:32 you just said that it runs NOLO Jul 12 16:48:43 after loading it in ram Jul 12 16:48:56 it loads a secondary NOLO from USB to RAM, to flash the primary NOLO to NAND Jul 12 16:49:06 oic Jul 12 16:49:12 easy, then :3 Jul 12 16:50:29 since yu see you need coldflashing to recover borked NOLO only, you can also see how rarely anybody ruined his NOLO Jul 12 16:51:02 and usually the recommendation "try coldflashing" is mere BS Jul 12 16:51:35 given by fools who don't undertand what coldflashing does Jul 12 16:52:41 jacekowski and me discussed to load an alternative "charging NOLOfake" to RAM, to recover from flatbat deadlock Jul 12 16:53:09 feasible but nobody wanna take the duty Jul 12 16:54:35 not even when people would buy that piece of software rather than an external battery charger, for same price Jul 12 17:26:19 lose USB port issue i mean Jul 12 17:39:09 DocScrutinizer, to make n900 as host for usb devices F and F converter is the only way.. Jul 12 17:39:11 ? Jul 12 17:39:37 is there any other method ? to accomplish this? Jul 12 17:39:42 the only reasonable waxy Jul 12 17:40:35 unless you find a readymade adapter from micro-B-USB-Male to USB-A-Female Jul 12 17:41:31 something rather hard to find, unless you rework a N8 OTG adapter, or a Samsung adapter may fit I heard Jul 12 17:41:42 Meanwhile: Microsoft Kills Windows Gadgets Via Security Update Jul 12 17:41:45 * RST38h RTOFLs Jul 12 17:42:22 \o/ Jul 12 17:42:31 most sane thing they ever did ;-P Jul 12 17:43:14 F and F connector works fine Jul 12 17:43:21 order it at dealextreme Jul 12 17:43:29 costs you a couple of dollar and free shipping Jul 12 17:44:42 RST38h: link? Jul 12 17:44:56 http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/07/microsoft-fix-kills-windows-gadgets/ Jul 12 17:45:28 Doc: I just hope they will continue the trend and kill more stuff in Windows Jul 12 17:45:41 UAC is in front of my mental line Jul 12 17:46:28 got a link? Jul 12 17:48:20 Gh0sty, got a link for USB F&F ? Jul 12 17:52:00 holy crap..i can buy a 500GB hdd for the price of this converter Jul 12 17:52:06 in my country Jul 12 17:52:14 i think i should make my own Jul 12 17:54:59 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-female-to-female-adapters-pair-106349?item=12 Jul 12 17:55:01 for example Jul 12 17:55:06 2 for 2.20 dollar Jul 12 17:55:47 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/micro-5pin-to-usb-female-otg-data-cable-black-129671?item=38 Jul 12 17:56:01 this could also be an option if it works ... Jul 12 17:59:40 jean_brat: where do you buy your 500GB disks? Jul 12 18:00:21 I'm temped to get 100 there Jul 12 18:00:42 50TB \o/ Jul 12 18:02:07 ebay shows 140$ since its imported from america Jul 12 18:02:10 wtf Jul 12 18:02:25 for a simple F&F converter? Jul 12 18:03:10 imported from america = $139 p&p Jul 12 18:08:19 LOL Jul 12 18:09:09 jean_brat: where do you live? Iran? North Corea? France? Jul 12 18:10:09 Barzil? Kuba? Jul 12 18:10:15 yes Jul 12 18:10:44 indai Jul 12 18:10:46 india Jul 12 18:10:53 tztztz Jul 12 18:11:12 i can get n900 for 214$ ..lol un officially Jul 12 18:11:15 so maybe the dealextreme one is cheaper for you? Jul 12 18:12:13 or simply try your local flavour of fleaBay Jul 12 18:12:56 got a link? Jul 12 18:13:12 dealextreme? see ghosty ^^^ Jul 12 18:14:37 cool Jul 12 18:15:49 do they ship to asia? Jul 12 18:15:59 now is http://www.dealextreme.com/p/easycap-usb-video-capture-adapter-5707 TAHT cheap? or what? Jul 12 18:17:51 dx claims to ship everywhere Jul 12 18:18:51 Ultimtely it's probably down to the reliability of the post system in the destination country. I've heard argentina and russia have high loss rates Jul 12 18:19:56 Argentina. I forgot Argentina in my list Jul 12 18:20:31 Werner almesberger told stories that resembled those of MohammadAG or RST38h Jul 12 18:21:30 seems recently they did (or considered to) forbid import of anything Jul 12 18:24:23 * DocScrutinizer05 gest a sudden unsolicited attack of nausea about this KDE theme Jul 12 18:24:27 gets* Jul 12 18:25:37 grey in grey, with grey specular lights Jul 12 18:26:10 active widows clearly marked by grey titlebar Jul 12 18:26:21 windows even Jul 12 18:27:00 grey systrey with light grey icons and WAAAH one red Jul 12 18:27:37 unbearable Jul 12 18:35:02 USB M to F converters cables are quite cheap .. less then a doller Jul 12 18:36:31 where do you live jean_brat? Jul 12 18:37:19 if strip the male end and can solder the F port from an old motherboard Jul 12 18:37:37 should work? Jul 12 18:39:14 brb Jul 12 18:39:23 yeah, if you connect them correctly Jul 12 18:41:33 can i enable compcache on a bfs kernel? Jul 12 18:57:10 I thought the BFS Kernel development was aborted. Jul 12 18:57:22