**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 28 02:59:59 2012 Jul 28 03:46:43 anyone have sugested reading for bootstraping maemo on other devices? I have some WinCE devices I would like to refalsh, preferable not have to chain load Jul 28 04:09:44 easy, if you can get the drivers Jul 28 04:11:20 I can roll a kernel, its looks like common enough hardware, its the bootstraper I need really, and how to get it in there, I have a bus pirate, logic analyser, and a hand hull of teensys, so I should be able to do something Jul 28 04:11:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_dbus Jul 28 04:11:45 its a PXA255 in a symbol hand scanner Jul 28 04:12:05 sidusnare: it depends on device Jul 28 04:13:04 Symbol MC9000w Jul 28 04:19:07 sidusnare, start with a debian bringup Jul 28 04:19:48 "debian bringup" ? Jul 28 04:20:06 kernel + debian rootfs Jul 28 04:20:29 fremantle-hildon-desktop and company are buildable from the gitorious Jul 28 05:49:26 Hello. I'm in a big dilemma. My n900 no longer wants to boot up. When I hook up the USB cable, it just seems to boot up and boot up in a loop. At this point I don't even mind to flash, but as long as I can save my data/contacts/sms/etc... anyone can point me to the right direction? Jul 28 07:04:05 Try this Jul 28 07:04:08 Remove the battery Jul 28 07:04:12 Plug the USB cable in Jul 28 07:04:19 open the slide of the phone Jul 28 07:04:33 Insert the battery and hold down the U key at the same time Jul 28 07:04:45 see what happens with the USB enumeration Jul 28 08:53:14 hi Jul 28 08:53:42 Pali: ping Jul 28 08:53:43 'lo Jul 28 08:53:52 jonwil, pong Jul 28 08:53:58 I saw your email Jul 28 08:54:15 I haven't identified where most of those interfaces come from yet Jul 28 08:55:04 ok Jul 28 08:58:59 freemangordon: ping Jul 28 08:59:08 pong Jul 28 08:59:17 vi_: ^^^ Jul 28 08:59:22 good morning squire. Jul 28 08:59:28 good morning Jul 28 08:59:49 you wanted some stats wrt memory useage of thumb vs non-thumb. Jul 28 08:59:56 yep Jul 28 09:00:13 (if such possible) Jul 28 09:00:26 can you suggest exactly what it is you want? Jul 28 09:00:34 for example, Jul 28 09:00:58 a person can: pmap Jul 28 09:01:24 is that the kind of thing you want? Jul 28 09:02:27 TBH not sure, that is why I am not doing it by myself Jul 28 09:02:40 but pmap might do dthe job Jul 28 09:03:24 on the other hand RSS should do the job too. And I have NFC what is better Jul 28 09:04:06 vi_: ^^^ Jul 28 09:04:19 http://cxg.de/_c161dc.htm Jul 28 09:04:27 have a look at that. Jul 28 09:07:11 vi_: hmm, scratch that Jul 28 09:07:22 this is too complicated to be used Jul 28 09:07:49 in genereal, what is good to be seens is the difference in RAM usage of the whole system Jul 28 09:08:15 as 2-3 MB less usage from browserd means nothing (general speaking) Jul 28 09:08:23 or even 4-5 Jul 28 09:10:29 i thought that one of the big things was the less time that takes to bring less data in and out of swap Jul 28 09:10:51 vi__: maybe get free RAM and swap usage after reboot, when device has settled down (for 10 mins lets say), open TMO and measure RAM/swap usage Jul 28 09:11:01 do the same with thumb-compiled system Jul 28 09:11:10 kerio: yes, but how much Jul 28 09:11:24 ...back Jul 28 09:11:29 ...back Jul 28 09:11:34 ...stupid wifi. Jul 28 09:11:40 vi_: check the backscroll Jul 28 09:12:29 I cannot, I was disconnected. unless there is somthing I do not know about irc? Jul 28 09:12:42 ok, i'll paste it for you Jul 28 09:12:53 vi_: hmm, scratch that Jul 28 09:12:55 this is too complicated to be used Jul 28 09:12:57 in genereal, what is good to be seens is the difference in RAM usage of the whole system Jul 28 09:13:06 vi__: maybe get free RAM and swap usage after reboot, when device has settled down (for 10 mins lets say), open TMO and measure RAM/swap usage Jul 28 09:13:06 do the same with thumb-compiled system Jul 28 09:13:29 vi_: ok now? Jul 28 09:13:45 yeah. Jul 28 09:14:05 that one too: Jul 28 09:14:06 as 2-3 MB less usage from browserd means nothing (general speaking) Jul 28 09:14:07 or even 4-5 Jul 28 09:16:26 vi_: here? Jul 28 09:17:24 ok. As far as I can tell you have uploaded an update to the the thumb repo (version 12?). I will hold off updating (I ams till V11) till I can do as you have suggested above and put the results on the TMO thread. Jul 28 09:18:11 vi_: the comparison should be between thumified and non-thumbified system Jul 28 09:18:19 I will try and get someone running non thumbmto do the same. Jul 28 09:18:36 you can boldly upgrade to v12 as it free about 1200KiB Jul 28 09:18:40 *frees Jul 28 09:18:45 w00t! Jul 28 09:19:06 yeap, using newer toolchain saves even more space Jul 28 09:19:58 freemangordon: I have a lot of stuff not starting on boot. modest, addressbook, web etc. Jul 28 09:20:16 vi_: again, the test should be made on a freshly flashed device Jul 28 09:20:18 that helps save some ram. Jul 28 09:20:37 install cssu-testing, measure RAM/swap Jul 28 09:20:45 install -thumb Jul 28 09:20:49 measure RAM/swap Jul 28 09:21:01 comapre the abovce values ;) Jul 28 09:21:10 freemangordon: well we can put the call out for someone on TMO who has a spare device to flash + record results. Jul 28 09:21:15 yep Jul 28 09:21:43 or even better: flash, restore your applications, install cssu-testing, measure Jul 28 09:21:54 install -thumb, measure Jul 28 09:22:04 you got the idea Jul 28 09:22:25 hell, I will put a bounty on it. 1 pizza. Jul 28 09:22:36 :D Jul 28 09:23:32 vi_: right now i have some family duties, so won't be able to do anything before late afternoon Jul 28 09:39:50 Hi, how to share pc networking via usb? Jul 28 09:39:58 Is is possible? Jul 28 09:40:04 s/is/it/ Jul 28 09:40:05 LaoLang_cool meant: Is it possible? Jul 28 09:46:28 Pali: You said before that replacing wl1251-cal and bluetooth-cal would allow the replacement of various non-standard kernel interfaces with standard ones, is that correct? Jul 28 10:24:48 damn, pali must have left :( Jul 28 12:56:47 ping DocScrutinizer Jul 28 12:57:13 ohai Pali Jul 28 12:59:06 Pali: usbmode gui feature request: manual speed choice and manual enumeration Jul 28 13:02:47 Hello. My phone almost died on me. I managed to flash it and I tried to only flash the kernel. Is there any way to retrieve the data back after it's actually already gone? Jul 28 13:03:08 ensoe: you what to do what? Jul 28 13:04:16 I was on the phone for hours, i had it charged via the usb cord. I guess the phone didn't like that (I need to add that it's an overclocked, only at 800 but still oced). Suddenly the phone ran out of battery - I had just shortly plugged in the usb cable to recharge it when it notified me that the battery was running out Jul 28 13:05:40 result: phone turned itself off. When it turned it back on, it would keep looping and looping by itself - then i tried to use boot menu to restore an image i just backed up recently - well, battery died right in between...now i was stuck with a phone that would barely turn on - I had trouble flashing but wanted to flash only the kernel. i'm currently presented with a newly flashed n900 i suppose - I'm trying to get my files back that w Jul 28 13:06:11 why didn't you wait for a full charge, dammit Jul 28 13:06:22 panic - pure panic Jul 28 13:06:23 what did you flash? Jul 28 13:06:25 i didn't know either Jul 28 13:06:36 also doesn't that mean that you have backups? Jul 28 13:06:52 i did the combined first, it rebooted and gave me the whole region setup welcome screen but said MISSING IMAGE everywhere ...I read and searched on google Jul 28 13:07:08 you half restored a backup Jul 28 13:07:16 turned out I needed to do eMMC first, then not boot, and flash the combined afterwards. I went ahead and did that..but well, now I lost all my files. Jul 28 13:07:25 ...you flashed eMMC Jul 28 13:07:33 you restored the n900 to factory conditions Jul 28 13:07:42 I'm afraid i did that Jul 28 13:07:43 you may try to undelete stuff in MyDocs, but apart from that, your files are hosed Jul 28 13:07:56 how do I undelete? Jul 28 13:07:56 i always flash it the fastest way....but now i forgot Jul 28 13:08:04 ~rescueos Jul 28 13:08:12 Pali: too little too late Jul 28 13:08:13 is it emmc first or root? Jul 28 13:08:18 he flashed everything Jul 28 13:08:19 ~rescue-os Jul 28 13:08:19 methinks rescue-os is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Nin101/N900_Rescue_OS, or http://nin101.uni.cx/N900/rescueOS/documentation.txt, or http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ Jul 28 13:08:37 I did PR 1.3 first, Jul 28 13:08:39 RiD: both at the same time, order doesn't matter - it's safer if you flash root first, because flashing emmc first and then booting is Bad Jul 28 13:08:45 then it booted up with MISSING IMAGE Jul 28 13:08:58 but if you flash root first you have to powercycle because you just flashed NOLO Jul 28 13:08:59 so I read and did eMMC first (kernel only) and then I did COMBINED again Jul 28 13:09:08 flashing emmc and then, without rebooting, flashing root is the fastest Jul 28 13:09:09 yes Nolo was flashed it told me Jul 28 13:09:15 ensoe: wasn't talking to you Jul 28 13:09:20 k Jul 28 13:09:31 ensoe: try any vfat undeleting utility Jul 28 13:09:34 so what's this rescue-os? Jul 28 13:09:36 is the n900 on right now? Jul 28 13:09:42 kerio: yes it's on right now Jul 28 13:09:47 i'm using testdisk to go in and see Jul 28 13:10:02 how much time does it take for garage to update ssh keys? It keeps rejecting me... Jul 28 13:10:04 but it's not showing much except for the factory default directories/files Jul 28 13:10:09 yeah but you're supposed to stay the fuck away from any disk you want to undelete files from Jul 28 13:10:19 using one... is bad Jul 28 13:11:05 kerio: i could kill myself right now. what are my options from here? Jul 28 13:11:14 this rescue-os ..is that something i can look into? Jul 28 13:11:29 there's no "magic", you just have to hope you haven't overwritten a lot of your files Jul 28 13:11:37 the stuff on your rootfs is as good as dead Jul 28 13:12:07 the stuff on the eMMC optfs is probably dead too, the stuff on the eMMC vfat (MyDocs) could be saved in a tiny part Jul 28 13:12:29 plug in to a computer in mass storage mode, make sure you don't mount it, or mount it read-only Jul 28 13:12:33 undelete from there Jul 28 13:13:16 kerio: i'll try..how do i undelete though? Jul 28 13:13:42 testdisk's photorec maybe Jul 28 13:14:34 "Important: As soon as a pic or file is accidentally deleted, or you discover any missing, do NOT save any more pics or files to that memory device or hard disk drive; otherwise you may overwrite your lost data." Jul 28 13:14:45 what do you want to recover? Jul 28 13:14:55 also, didn't you say you have a backupmenu backup? Jul 28 13:15:00 his pr9n collection Jul 28 13:15:12 undelete on fat is pretty easy Jul 28 13:15:20 files are not deleted on fat as such Jul 28 13:15:25 photos,videos, contacts, conversations for the most part, all the other crap i can get back again ..mainly stuff that can never be retrieved again unless i have the file Jul 28 13:15:25 just marked as deleted Jul 28 13:15:40 kerio: i saved it all to eMMC Jul 28 13:15:41 jacekowski: that's true for Almost Every fs Jul 28 13:15:44 conversations? that's not on emmc... :/ Jul 28 13:15:50 i knew i should have done that to sdcard Jul 28 13:15:52 and yeah, conversations is gone Jul 28 13:15:52 unless you have a backup? Jul 28 13:15:59 RiD: he had one... on the emmc Jul 28 13:16:00 conversations are on emmc Jul 28 13:16:06 just not on mydocs Jul 28 13:16:07 jacekowski: in mydocs? Jul 28 13:16:08 oh Jul 28 13:16:08 heh Jul 28 13:16:12 so use photorec correct? Jul 28 13:16:15 ext...3? undelete is kinda harder Jul 28 13:16:36 ensoe: hell, you should probably make an image of the mydocs partition Jul 28 13:16:37 oh, if the backup can still be recovered then your conversations are there Jul 28 13:16:46 unless if you didn't select to back that up Jul 28 13:16:56 i still don't get what people mean by "backup" Jul 28 13:17:04 the backup application? Jul 28 13:17:06 :s Jul 28 13:17:13 yes Jul 28 13:17:17 kerio: well i went through the backup menu options - did both rootfs and the other part (as recommended) Jul 28 13:17:24 oh you used backupmenu Jul 28 13:17:40 (say that, otherwise people could be confused with the internal "Backup" application) Jul 28 13:18:03 ensoe: *right now* connect in mass storage and use dd to make a full image of MyDocs Jul 28 13:18:51 if you manage to recover your backupmenu backup then you're saved Jul 28 13:19:00 so don't mount it and just dd full partition over Jul 28 13:19:06 yep Jul 28 13:19:24 the more you use the partition, the less chances you have of recovering your files Jul 28 13:19:40 i wonder... are backupmenu backups tagged in some way? Jul 28 13:19:49 i havne't done anything yet, mainly just set region, i'm at the main screen after it's done setting the basic things on my n900 Jul 28 13:20:09 what's a good dd command (with parameters etc) Jul 28 13:21:14 i assume you have a unixy OS on the host Jul 28 13:21:36 kerio: yep, i've got it now. it's working on the dd Jul 28 13:21:36 something special I have to do to upload via scp to extras? I've got upload rights, updated garage profile with my public keys but I keep getting rejected Jul 28 13:21:47 dd if=/dev/yourpartitiondevice of=mydumbimage.img bs=1m Jul 28 13:21:52 kerio: if I get to get my files back, I'mma buy you a 24 pack of beer today! Jul 28 13:21:53 the default block size sucks Jul 28 13:22:16 ensoe: if you get your files back, make a donation to robbiethe1st Jul 28 13:22:21 (for backupmenu) Jul 28 13:22:24 i don't even drink Jul 28 13:22:26 wait Jul 28 13:22:33 ops, wrong channel Jul 28 13:22:38 haha Jul 28 13:22:40 i definitely will do. so should i cancel with default block size now and go with the 1m? Jul 28 13:22:42 yeah Jul 28 13:22:45 or just let it do it's thing? Jul 28 13:22:53 nah, the default block size is ridiculous Jul 28 13:22:55 512 bytes Jul 28 13:23:03 you'll never get to the end, really Jul 28 13:23:41 (you can SIGINFO or SIGUSR1 your dd process to make it output stats to stderr, check your man page for details) Jul 28 13:24:33 nvm, I got it. Deleted the space between key type and key and added it again... Probably it was another type of html char or something Jul 28 13:24:38 i guess dd=if of= bs=1024 should work eh? Jul 28 13:24:50 it takes it as bytes i think?..so i should really do 1024*1024 ? Jul 28 13:25:24 ensoe: 1m should work, or 1M Jul 28 13:25:26 nvm, 1M Jul 28 13:25:36 yeah 1k, 1M, etc.. Jul 28 13:26:27 now i just tried photorec, but it's not giving me much yet..so i'll try with the iso from dd Jul 28 13:26:30 when it's done Jul 28 13:27:18 i wish i had just waited with the whole flashing, was doing it late night too, but asked and I suppose everyone was sleeping..damnit Jul 28 13:27:49 ensoe: backups are only as good as their storage and their restore procedure Jul 28 13:28:18 kerio: yeah, i realize that. it just never occurred to me in a million years that everything that can go bad, goes bad in one night Jul 28 13:28:46 on the phone for 3+ hours, battery running out, phone already hot, I plug in usb cable to recharge, phone still dies, loop mode, i panic, flash wrong..and voila Jul 28 13:28:54 hehe Jul 28 13:29:08 the only minor fuckup i had was restoring a BM backup with the wrong kernel Jul 28 13:29:52 yeah, at this point i don't even care about the conversations, as long as i can get my hands on that last backup - from like 3-4 days ago really Jul 28 13:30:51 ensoe: don't expect to actually recover it Jul 28 13:30:55 the chances are slim Jul 28 13:30:57 kerio: can you give me run down as to what to do next once i've got the dd iso ? Jul 28 13:31:16 loop mount it, use photorec on it and see if it can find anything i assume? Jul 28 13:31:30 i don't know if photorec needs a mounted system Jul 28 13:31:34 anyway, that's the idea Jul 28 13:31:35 ok Jul 28 13:31:46 should i backup the iso someplace else in case it gets "modified" in any way? Jul 28 13:31:54 sure, why not Jul 28 13:31:59 k Jul 28 13:33:43 well i'll be here, just going to be running some chores outside - i'll keep you updated or most likely ask for more advise the way i see it Jul 28 13:46:57 hrmpf why does fapman feel the need to keep his own dpkg database Jul 28 13:48:42 meh, DocScrutinizer was right all along Jul 28 13:49:02 DocScrutinizer51: I WILL NEVER DOUBT YOU DOCKY Jul 28 14:49:29 Pali: pong Jul 28 14:52:09 ensoe: ping Jul 28 14:59:31 DocScrutinizer05, which jack is used on n900 left or right? https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/dscn1895customthumb.jpg/ Jul 28 15:00:50 right Jul 28 15:01:09 left is brainfucked apple patent Jul 28 15:01:49 ok, thanks. n950 is also right? Jul 28 15:02:08 hm, somebody here mentioned a french server hosting, some days ago Jul 28 15:02:21 should Jul 28 15:02:38 with insane specs Jul 28 15:04:21 what is right?? Jul 28 15:04:28 what has insane specs?? Jul 28 15:06:03 lots of ram, lots of disk space, 18€/month Jul 28 15:06:08 DocScrutinizer05: apple headphones are wtf Jul 28 15:07:18 lol Jul 28 15:07:29 i had one of these (didn't buy) Jul 28 15:08:05 cheapest thing you could find. It didn't even had the bass right - it would distort always a bit. this on an apple ipod Jul 28 15:08:23 And it lacked mids as hell. Not sure if they're still like that Jul 28 15:08:53 it was just some treble. As bad as those cheap laptop speakers Jul 28 15:10:00 freemangordon, but whole system RAM usage is kinda useless, unless it's N900 just reflashed and with thumb things installed Jul 28 15:10:24 for example, every person will have different widgets installed, so overall system usage will wary easily ~20 MB Jul 28 15:10:31 jsut because stupid or less stupid widgets Jul 28 15:10:45 it kinda defeat purpose of "system" test Jul 28 15:11:09 BTW, why can't we just get list of thumb2-compiled packages from thumb repo, and purpose their footprint in memory when working, one by one? Jul 28 15:11:42 Estel_: you can. Jul 28 15:12:10 ShadowJK, charge21.sh assumes 132 mOhm resistance between charger and battery. where this number come from? Pure guessworking, or someone tested it? Jul 28 15:12:30 guesswork Jul 28 15:12:38 Am I wrong, that thing like connection quality between springs in battery and socket in N900 can affect this by orders of magnitude? Jul 28 15:12:48 right Jul 28 15:12:50 :-) Jul 28 15:13:18 erm, so when it becomes 232 mOhm, for example, due to worse springs, our measurement are off by 50%? 0_o? Jul 28 15:13:29 (~) Jul 28 15:13:30 that's why I never thought this is a useful fancy to calculate things this way Jul 28 15:13:46 any other way to do it? Jul 28 15:14:00 vi_, sure, but freemangordon requested whole system usage Jul 28 15:14:03 smoking an electronic cigarette Jul 28 15:14:06 interesting stuff Jul 28 15:14:23 take raw values from bq27200.sh and the rest is just left to user guessing Jul 28 15:14:26 teotwaki, sure, but it damages itself 70% chance in 3 months Jul 28 15:14:38 hmmm, tommorow I might finally be able to work on some N900 coding :) Jul 28 15:14:47 specifically wl1251-cal and bluetooth-cal Jul 28 15:14:49 teotwaki: gets you held up at gunpoint by the olympic terror squad. Jul 28 15:14:55 at least ones with under-pressure ON switch (when you pull air, it's activate) Jul 28 15:15:03 Estel_: not an issue, even if I have to buy a new set every 2 months, it's a lot cheaper than regular fags Jul 28 15:15:06 vi_: how so? Jul 28 15:15:10 jonwil: w00t Jul 28 15:15:29 teotwaki: did you not see the news story some weeks ago? Jul 28 15:15:31 teotwaki, sure. And it's definitelly friendly for non-smoking surrounding Jul 28 15:15:53 although that depends on whether I use "working on n900 stuff" as an excuse to procrastinate regarding cleaning up all the mess in my apartment :) Jul 28 15:15:55 a man in the UK was using one on a bus. Jul 28 15:16:03 and hopefully safer, health-wise. Jul 28 15:16:08 vi_: nope Jul 28 15:16:08 vi_, haha, remember that Jul 28 15:16:16 some people became suspicious. Jul 28 15:16:25 suspicious of what? Jul 28 15:16:32 Well, antiterrorist banged at him, bus eas stopped, 25 kilometer line of cars started Jul 28 15:16:40 s/started/appeared/ Jul 28 15:16:40 Estel_ meant: Well, antiterrorist banged at him, bus eas stopped, 25 kilometer line of cars appeared Jul 28 15:16:50 chemical terrorism squad arrived Jul 28 15:16:56 next thing you know they are being held at gunpoint by the bombsquad for 6 hours at the side of the road. Jul 28 15:16:57 wtf Jul 28 15:17:00 haha Jul 28 15:17:03 teotwaki, suspicious that he is mixing components of chemical weapon Jul 28 15:17:13 due to "smoke" (water) Jul 28 15:17:16 "HE'S GOT SMOKE COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH AFTER PUTTING IT IN HIS MOUTH" Jul 28 15:17:24 not exactly, they were afraid Jul 28 15:17:29 teotwaki: BOOOOOOMB!!!! Jul 28 15:17:31 probably, he refilled it with nicotine liquid Jul 28 15:17:43 so paranoid started that he is mixing chemical weapon Jul 28 15:17:49 oh lol Jul 28 15:17:49 where there is smoke, there is fire Jul 28 15:17:50 then he started to use it and "smoke" appeared... Jul 28 15:17:54 fire is used by terrorists Jul 28 15:17:55 case closed Jul 28 15:18:03 don't they, like, LOOK like cigarettes too? Jul 28 15:18:10 kerio, sure Jul 28 15:18:20 but terorist can disguise bombs as cigarretes! Jul 28 15:18:23 kerio: nice try, terrorist. Jul 28 15:18:23 they were a hype over here for about 2 months Jul 28 15:18:27 or as milk for infants Jul 28 15:18:47 but electric cigs are like non-alcoholic beer Jul 28 15:18:52 in the end, you just aint going to do it Jul 28 15:19:00 Lava_Croft: not really. Jul 28 15:19:03 I must say UK is an idiot when it comes to security - remember, when parents were supposed to drink a little from bootle of milk for infants, before boarding plane? Jul 28 15:19:15 sure, suicude terrorist wouldn't take a small bit of chemical liquid, to prove that it's milk Jul 28 15:19:24 they care about their health, after all Jul 28 15:19:28 Lava_Croft: well, 3 guys at my office have been smoking exclusively that for over 5 months Jul 28 15:19:35 Lava_Croft: I started tuesday Jul 28 15:19:43 Estel_: but what if it is like you know...boob milk? Jul 28 15:20:07 vi_, well, that's why no security drinked it Jul 28 15:20:16 Estel_: most nitro-explosives are extremely toxic Jul 28 15:20:31 they'd have you puking in seconds Jul 28 15:20:38 DocScrutinizer, sure, but to bring plane down, you don't need nitro Jul 28 15:20:56 in fact, simple depressurization via a small hole is enough, on high attitudes Jul 28 15:21:02 dunno about APEX Jul 28 15:21:04 it's not, actually. Jul 28 15:21:05 e-cigs relieve nicotine withdrawals just like cigs. Jul 28 15:21:40 teotwaki, 10x10 cm hole in hull, where it can't be auto-closed, on 10 000m is enough to rip it in 20 seconds Jul 28 15:21:45 but apex would explode when you swallow it X-P Jul 28 15:22:04 Estel_: rip what, exactly? Jul 28 15:22:07 due to friction Jul 28 15:22:28 teotwaki, due to pressure difference, 10x10 cm hole will rip itself to much bigger in 5 seconds, You know the rest Jul 28 15:22:35 it wouldn't Jul 28 15:22:46 In passenger plane? It would. Jul 28 15:22:54 teotwaki: e-cigs are expensive. A cheaper more readily available form of nicotine is purchaseable in the form of cigarettes Jul 28 15:22:54 you're not travelling at -2000m Jul 28 15:23:05 vi_: e-cigs are cheaper than cigs Jul 28 15:23:09 teotwaki, sure, intercontinentals are travelling at 10 000 m ;) Jul 28 15:23:34 vi_: e-cigs will cost me 1600 euros less a year than normal cigs Jul 28 15:23:43 Aloha Airlines Flight 243 would serve as a counter to the argument that a small hole in an airplane is automatically fatal Jul 28 15:24:05 jonwil: ++ Jul 28 15:24:09 jonwil, sure, it depends on attitude Jul 28 15:24:11 Estel_: 10km? Seriously? Jul 28 15:24:56 teotwaki: more like 11km Jul 28 15:25:02 well, 12 even Jul 28 15:25:23 I'm just saying, pressurization of the cabin is only done for human comfort Jul 28 15:25:31 yep Jul 28 15:26:02 and several experiments shown that a small bomb is not instantly teearing apart a plane Jul 28 15:26:59 What movie is it, alien? Where the alien gets sucked through a tiny little hole in a piece of glass? Jul 28 15:27:39 to "bring down a airplane" it's sufficient to go "*cough*allah*coughcough*bomb*cough*" Jul 28 15:27:58 So the alien got ripped to shreds thanks to 1 atmosphere worth of pressure... Jul 28 15:28:12 alien-4? Jul 28 15:28:14 God forbid it ever came to earth. Jul 28 15:28:19 extraterrestial beings Jul 28 15:28:41 ay-lee-en Jul 28 15:28:59 next we're going to hear about people's heads popping when they get in a 0 gravity environment Jul 28 15:29:12 LOL Jul 28 15:29:57 I don't need any special environment for that - feels like mine going 'plopp' in a second Jul 28 15:30:14 that's because you forgot to go to the loo earlier Jul 28 15:30:45 you know what also does 'plopp'? Jul 28 15:31:33 probably because I thought it's a good idea to close windows in the morning, when it been 25°C outside and inside. when I woke up 1h ago, it still had 25° outside but 29° inside :-o Jul 28 15:32:55 DocScrutinizer05, is there some detailed n900 hw spec (I found only L1L2, L3L3 & pdf hw spec) Jul 28 15:33:08 something more detailed Jul 28 15:33:11 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders about AirCon and about servo motors to open/close windows Jul 28 15:33:41 Pali: spec like what? Jul 28 15:34:14 full spec of all chips... Jul 28 15:34:18 component names? Jul 28 15:34:26 wiki/hw Jul 28 15:35:31 ok on maemo wiki Category:N900_Hardware is some info Jul 28 15:36:33 I tried to find some more info about twl madc which is on n900 Jul 28 15:36:42 what is where connected Jul 28 15:37:00 http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Nokia_N900_Mobile_Phone-whatsinside_text-90.aspx Jul 28 15:37:35 DocScrutinizer, only adcin0, adcin2 and adcin4 is written in Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf Jul 28 15:37:39 Pali: that kind of info you get from schematics Jul 28 15:38:14 in Schematics is more adcin* missing Jul 28 15:38:34 Pali: not all ADCINn are used, and several are internally connected Jul 28 15:39:08 Pali: what's *really* missing in schematics are details about JTAG Jul 28 15:39:17 UART3 etc Jul 28 15:39:43 yes, it really missing Jul 28 15:39:46 all the testpads under battery Jul 28 15:39:54 EHLO DOC Jul 28 15:40:09 it was not released or nokia do not have it? Jul 28 15:40:16 -EHEADACHE Jul 28 15:41:36 Pali: my understanding is: the 'leaked' schematics are "for educational purpose". Nokia edited them to remove some stuff they didn't think was relevant to 'educate' Jul 28 15:41:51 Pali, ping Jul 28 15:41:51 Pali, could I request some small thing for KP charging modules? my early (few weeks) testes show, that charging bigger batteries with 1250 charging current works well. Could it be possible, to have charging current adjustable, even if by some geeky sysfs entry? Jul 28 15:41:51 (like with disabling red led for camera) Jul 28 15:41:54 oh damn Jul 28 15:41:57 connection dropped Jul 28 15:42:13 DocScrutinizer, any idea, why when executing charge.sh one need to ctrl^c it and do it again... Jul 28 15:42:13 due to "charging error"? Jul 28 15:42:13 coming from Maemo? Jul 28 15:42:13 I used to *not* being affected by this, but since few weeks, I always must do it twice, or it doesn't charge. Afterwards, it works great Jul 28 15:42:52 Estel_: Pali: you should re-read my bq24150 API specs Jul 28 15:43:32 Estel_, already implemented via /sys/class/power_supply/bq2415**/ Jul 28 15:44:04 Estel_: 10km? Seriously? Jul 28 15:44:05 teotwaki, at least when I've last travelled intercont. Jul 28 15:44:05 we joked that we're almsot astronauts Jul 28 15:44:05 almost* Jul 28 15:44:05 (only 90km left to be real astronauts :P ) Jul 28 15:44:05 but, anyway, this thing with nitro and puking makes it a little more justified (drinking milk) Jul 28 15:44:07 I still insist, that there is 343543534 combinations of explosive liquid, that doesn't necessary required spazms when drinked, at least not instantly... Jul 28 15:44:10 but whatever, security uber allez Jul 28 15:44:14 I'm absolutely sure, that denial of bringing liquids on board have, hoever, served onboards "bar" very well Jul 28 15:44:17 200 ml bootle of mineral water for 5 pounds is something Jul 28 15:44:20 Pali, oh, sorry and thanks :) Jul 28 15:44:36 is it documented somewhere? Jul 28 15:44:37 Estel_, charging led can be disabled too Jul 28 15:44:40 Estel_: stop spamming! Jul 28 15:44:57 DocScrutinizer, just pasted what was dropped out due to connection drop :) Jul 28 15:45:10 would it be better if I re-write it line by line, eh? Jul 28 15:45:49 Estel_: oh god Jul 28 15:45:54 Pali, nice. I would liek to read mroe about it (i.e what and where is configurable, what values are correct and correspond to what results), thus question about documentation Jul 28 15:45:55 ever heard of pastebins? Jul 28 15:46:17 FIQ, without connection drop, IKRC would anyway present is as line by line... Jul 28 15:46:19 whatever Jul 28 15:46:21 it's frowned upon in IRC to paste more than 3 lines a row Jul 28 15:46:23 IRC* Jul 28 15:46:29 sure Jul 28 15:46:41 Estel_, no documentation yet (some old has DocScrutinizer05), but you can see current sysfs entires in source code: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/bq2415x_charger.patch;hb=HEAD#l1319 Jul 28 15:46:44 that's why we're doing it all the time, but I'm not going to argue :) Jul 28 15:46:54 Pali, thanks a lot Jul 28 15:49:51 Estel_: original idea can be found in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt Jul 28 15:50:05 * Estel_ say thanks Jul 28 15:50:08 says* Jul 28 15:50:11 I dunno how closely Pali followed on it Jul 28 16:01:15 ShadowJK, I can't seem to find any mention of this 132 mOhm resistance between charger and battery in bq27200.sh, may it be why charge21.sh result (Rate) is ~100 mA off from what bq27200.sh reports? Jul 28 16:18:32 DocScrutinizer05, left is used also on Lumia... https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/dscn1895customthumb.jpg/ Jul 28 16:19:38 strongest evidence how much Flop assraped Nokia on all aspects Jul 28 16:20:29 also another reason why Apple should die Jul 28 16:21:51 . Jul 28 16:22:05 Hah. Jul 28 16:22:09 New android tablet. Jul 28 16:22:11 I mean, putting the most delicate sensible line (mic(!) input) on the sleeve(!)-ring of connector, a design that inevitably explodes right into your face when using decent plugs with metal housing. *I*N*S*A*N*E* Jul 28 16:22:28 I'm currently being really annoyed by the media daemon constantly indexing and draining my battery. Jul 28 16:23:01 LOL, the return of killer tracker Jul 28 16:23:04 And this time there is no tracker config file. Jul 28 16:23:15 sounds like a lame movie sequel Jul 28 16:25:01 (mic on sleeve) and I really feel deeply depressed for Nikolaus of Goldelico adopted that very brainfuck for GTA04 Jul 28 16:28:56 http://www.erodov.com/forums/help-4pin-3-5mm-seperate-mic-audio-out/21039.html (<- this is a sane design). http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/ne700mx/index.php <- this is FSCKUP apple-must-die-for-this design, that breaks with plugs like the gold plated one in http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/489436645/3_5mm_4_pin_power_plug.html Jul 28 16:39:14 http://www.omtp.org/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf Jul 28 16:39:27 Pali: ^^^ Jul 28 16:39:49 Nokia once stated that ALL their devices will follow this spec Jul 28 16:40:06 until Flop came and shot in their forehead Jul 28 16:41:20 lol Jul 28 16:41:26 hey Jul 28 16:41:31 of course "1.2 Business Rationale" as in that paper doesn't apply to Apple, rather the contrary Jul 28 16:41:42 anyone with an N900 around? Jul 28 16:41:47 no Jul 28 16:42:38 I'm looking for an app tester who would test something on an N900 Jul 28 16:42:46 DocScrutinizer05, ok Jul 28 16:42:57 Venemo_N9: what app? Jul 28 16:43:05 and how badly will it trash the n900? :p Jul 28 16:43:40 Gh0sty, puzzle master 2's fremantle backport Jul 28 16:48:16 oooooh puzzle master Jul 28 16:48:44 Gh0sty: you should give this one a try Jul 28 16:50:06 thx DocScrutinizer05 :) Jul 28 16:50:52 i wonder if anybody ever ported OpenGlad Jul 28 16:51:05 http://snowstorm.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/site.cgi?page=openglad Jul 28 16:51:21 obviously the multitouch features don't work on the N900, but the rest works very fine on Maemo 5 Jul 28 16:51:33 * Lava_Croft winks suggestively Jul 28 16:51:48 puzzle master Jul 28 16:51:52 wtf? :p Jul 28 16:52:31 Lava_Croft, what's that? Jul 28 16:52:46 i guess he/she wants it! :p Jul 28 16:53:28 Gh0sty, I can give you a deb or you can compile for yourself if you prefer Jul 28 16:53:43 pff not really interested Jul 28 16:53:47 never game on it :p Jul 28 16:54:01 ok Jul 28 16:54:17 well then, I'm still looking for a tester Jul 28 16:54:21 :) Jul 28 16:54:37 Venemo_N9: asking for users to ask for a 'sekrit' download link to give sth a test - this never has panned out Jul 28 16:55:05 Sooo, what is new and exciting? Jul 28 16:55:07 DocScrutinizer05, what do you recommend? Jul 28 16:55:14 Are we dead yet? Jul 28 16:55:20 post a URL pointing to .deb here Jul 28 16:55:31 ok Jul 28 16:56:30 DocScrutinizer05, all right, as soon as I get home Jul 28 16:56:53 sorry if I sound grumpy, got headache Jul 28 16:56:57 * DocScrutinizer05 afk Jul 28 16:58:20 you need a headache to sound grumpy? :p Jul 28 16:58:23 no problem Jul 28 16:58:39 Gh0sty: LOL Jul 28 16:59:34 anyway, ttyl Jul 28 17:01:50 Estel_; it only matters for the sys/ch estimates Jul 28 17:02:43 wait, I think I still don't get something. "Charge" is always 1250 for me, static, it doesn't change in any conditijons Jul 28 17:02:55 "Rate" ios thing that should be same as current in bq27200.sh, yes? Jul 28 17:02:59 and "system" is estimate Jul 28 17:03:37 now, i updated bq27200.sh to have 21 mOhm value for sense chip resistance, yet, "Rate" is still *much* off from what charge21.sh reports Jul 28 17:03:37 yes Jul 28 17:03:50 and, mind You, bq27200.sh results seems more like real-life ones Jul 28 17:03:55 that's weird.. Jul 28 17:03:57 yea Jul 28 17:04:03 can't find out why it's like that Jul 28 17:04:11 have you tried running it in your device? results are same? Jul 28 17:04:14 the root of doom and epic failure: http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_shuffle_pinout.shtml Jul 28 17:04:22 (with 950 mAh charging) Jul 28 17:04:36 >>When charging is needed from anything other than the stock base, ground pin 3 and apply Vcc to pins 1, 2, and 4.<< Jul 28 17:04:58 :-O EEEEK! WAAAAAH!!!! Jul 28 17:05:20 0_o Jul 28 17:05:21 epic Jul 28 17:05:28 atleast on my system bq27200.sh and charge21.sh seem to show same rate when not charging Jul 28 17:05:42 and while charging? Jul 28 17:05:48 * Estel_ checks how it is while not charging Jul 28 17:08:49 http://pinoutsguide.com/Home/av_jack_pinout.shtml <-nice one Jul 28 17:12:01 * SpeedEvil wises he could find the nexus pogo pin pinouts. Jul 28 17:12:14 I'm sort of tempted to open it up, pop the cans off, and see what I can measure Jul 28 17:12:30 oh, god, i though only apple is so stupid Jul 28 17:12:36 ShadowJK, when idle, it seems to be almsot the same Jul 28 17:12:42 almost* Jul 28 17:13:07 stupidity is everywhere Jul 28 17:13:11 its all around us ! Jul 28 17:13:16 ionteresting fact - whith charge.sh only and screen on, power usage is ~100 mA, when bq27200.sh 5 is added, it increase to ~110 mA Jul 28 17:13:39 should be indentical, though ./bq27200 5 has 5s refresh and charge21.sh defaults to 5 at startup, 5 during charge, and 15 after charge Jul 28 17:14:26 yea, additional 10mA is jsutified by 3x more often refresh Jul 28 17:14:41 it can be considered identical Jul 28 17:14:44 while not charging Jul 28 17:14:56 but when I connect charger... Jul 28 17:15:41 ...nothing happens, as I need to restart charge21.sh... :P Jul 28 17:16:01 Weird Jul 28 17:16:16 hm, why? It doesn't aujtodetect charger connections,a nd never did? Jul 28 17:16:28 (on 3 devices I have tested it on) Jul 28 17:17:02 i.e. if You charge with it, unplug cable, it goes into "standby" mode. Then, conencting charger again, doesn't result in anything, need to ctrl^c it and start again Jul 28 17:18:39 hm, charging current is now capped to 712, and mysteriously, now readings of both charge21.sh and bq27200.sh are same Jul 28 17:18:41 identical Jul 28 17:19:01 and by identical I mean completely identical Jul 28 17:19:08 it seems to freak out only in higher currents Jul 28 17:19:24 considering this, "System" is also accurate now Jul 28 17:23:37 http://pastebin.com/5FXxzAaw has some timestamps too. I plug in charger between 35 and 50s. Jul 28 17:29:48 ShadowJK, thanks. Very strange, autodetecting charger being plugged in *never* worked for me on any device Jul 28 17:30:35 also, there is additional thing, that seems to affect more people to - initially, when IU stgart charge21.sh, it starts charging, then, Maemos banner "charging error" appear, and it's stop charging, actually Jul 28 17:30:48 I need to ctrl^c it, start again, and then it charges OK for time being Jul 28 17:31:12 oddly enough, if I stop charging, and start it again in short timeframe, this thing doesn't re-appear Jul 28 17:31:31 it appear only, when charging initially, with long time since last charging attempt Jul 28 17:31:53 mind You, I plug cable first (so bme starts charging),. then start charge21.sh, may it be related? Jul 28 17:32:21 if maemo banner comes up, it suggests you're running bme too Jul 28 17:32:45 * Estel_ nods Jul 28 17:32:56 bme would shut down charger chip Jul 28 17:32:56 charge21.sh part that stops bme is commented out in charge21.sh by default Jul 28 17:33:09 yes, but after ctrl^c and starting again, it doesn't shut it down Jul 28 17:33:10 I keep charger on Jul 28 17:33:20 may it be why auto-detection of charger plugged in doesn't work? Jul 28 17:33:42 So if running bme simultaneously with charge21, I would expect charge to not resume again Jul 28 17:33:50 yes Jul 28 17:34:10 but You know what? Now I re-did Your tets with putting charger more than 30 seconds after starting charge21.sh... Jul 28 17:34:13 with bme running... Jul 28 17:34:22 and it *does* detect charger plugged in, and started charging Jul 28 17:34:28 it seems that it need to be run for some time Jul 28 17:34:37 until next update Jul 28 17:34:44 which is like 15s Jul 28 17:34:47 lets see what happen if I unplug and plug back again Jul 28 17:34:47 no Jul 28 17:34:55 it's charging without problem Jul 28 17:35:00 for 6 updates already Jul 28 17:35:07 without disabling bme Jul 28 17:35:09 wtf? :) Jul 28 17:35:35 running bme in parallel to charger*.sh is insane BS Jul 28 17:35:38 bme shutting down chip happens only initially Jul 28 17:35:42 Having bme running at same time is silly anyway, bme will/might/could override 1250 or anything Jul 28 17:35:56 yeah what DocScrutinizer said :P Jul 28 17:35:57 DocScrutinizer, sure, I don't need bme for that, but nevertheless, fact is that it worked for me for year or so ;) Jul 28 17:36:08 OK Jul 28 17:36:17 this may be reason why device doesn't want to charge with full current Jul 28 17:36:33 so I need to get stressed again and re-test it properly with bme shut down, for another month, eh? ;) Jul 28 17:36:55 sure :) Jul 28 17:37:15 stressed as in "if Nokia put good components to accomodate charging chip, that won't desolder themselves on 1250" Jul 28 17:37:33 Also as you can see from my paste, I was at 75% charged approx, and charge rate was below 950 already Jul 28 17:37:44 yea Jul 28 17:37:45 same here Jul 28 17:37:56 testing 1250 must wait for next charging cycle Jul 28 17:38:18 it's like pulling the horses of a carriage with a ferrari Jul 28 17:39:13 why so, you've said that there is no way to screw anything with charging via software ;) Jul 28 17:39:30 there isn't Jul 28 17:39:40 but seriously, I just want to check if component there is high quality, and won't come into saturation Jul 28 17:39:59 = if there is possibility for little time gain, when charging big batteries like 3000 mah with 1250 instead of 950 Jul 28 17:40:14 nevertheless using charge.sh on a system with active BME is about silliest thing I could think of Jul 28 17:40:19 (with much regret, that it doesn't allow charging with more) Jul 28 17:40:21 ah, of course Jul 28 17:40:25 I stopped bme ;) Jul 28 17:40:33 I though You're talking about whole concept of 1250 charging Jul 28 17:40:40 wioth that horses and carriage Jul 28 17:40:48 with* Jul 28 17:41:05 well, need to disassemble unit again, and put temperature sensor on this small black thing near charging chip again Jul 28 17:41:09 how was it called? choke? Jul 28 17:41:37 ShadowJK, any reason why to have stopping bme commented out in charge21.sh? Jul 28 17:41:49 (and starting it back again on exit) Jul 28 17:43:21 nfc, probably because you never have started bme on a system where you want to use charge.sh Jul 28 17:43:49 mind you, charge.sh is _alternative_ to bme Jul 28 17:43:55 sure Jul 28 17:44:29 but lets be practical, until we have replacement implemented - like now and all years before - we use bme normally, and want to sue charge21.sh for charging Jul 28 17:44:34 s/sue/use/ Jul 28 17:44:34 Estel_ meant: but lets be practical, until we have replacement implemented - like now and all years before - we use bme normally, and want to use charge21.sh for charging Jul 28 17:44:52 so rather than stopping bme in charge.sh, you _start_ charge.sh in initscripts where usually bme gets started Jul 28 17:44:56 also, charge21.sh have code to stop bme, but commented out by default, I wonder why Jul 28 17:45:07 Estel_; probaby a remnant from the original, where script exited at full charge and restarted bme Jul 28 17:45:42 ShadowJK, I see Jul 28 17:45:45 wtf would you need bme for DIScharging? Jul 28 17:46:22 To restart battery meter and low batt dong Jul 28 17:46:31 charge.sh is meant to run on a bme-free system Jul 28 17:47:05 actually it got invented to allow charging of systems that got bme removed Jul 28 17:47:47 ShadowJK: sure, fair enough Jul 28 17:48:11 DocScrutinizer, this, + charging from PC Jul 28 17:48:33 charge21.sh is going to make USB on Pc berseker at best, or blow it's fuse at worst, depending on motherboard Jul 28 17:48:35 ShadowJK: you *could* augment your charger script to try and stop bme, and only start it on exit when it been running on entry Jul 28 17:49:13 well my script now never exits Jul 28 17:49:21 I had some concept for that in booston Jul 28 17:49:32 ShadowJK, It do, when I invoke ctrl^c ;) Jul 28 17:49:33 should probably add a warning and/or exit at start Jul 28 17:49:36 it coulkd restart bme then Jul 28 17:49:37 dunno if I commented it out, or never finished it Jul 28 17:50:11 I have too many versions around, one version on each n900, one on enivax, one on pc, and then meegocharge version and... Jul 28 17:50:14 DocScrutinizer, you know that I would love to run bme free system, and this time is going closer and closer thanks to kernel implementation... :) Jul 28 17:50:18 ShadowJK: nah! `stop bme` will throw error on bme not running, no? Jul 28 17:50:26 but for now, it needs to co-exist (not njecessary at exact same time) Jul 28 17:51:03 sorry for typos, writing from small keyboard Jul 28 17:51:13 I should make a "psleep" command that looks at sysnodes to catch charger (un)plug events immediately Jul 28 17:51:23 but that requires working sb or something so meh Jul 28 17:51:32 ok, no return code, but Jul 28 17:51:35 t900:/sys/class# stop bme Jul 28 17:51:37 stop: Job not changed: bme Jul 28 17:52:10 on STDERR Jul 28 17:52:27 * ShadowJK has spare n900 Streaming audio over 3g, screen max brightness, and gps recorder keeping screen on.. should have empty battery for testing soon! :-) Jul 28 17:52:46 :) Jul 28 17:54:31 DocScrutinizer, see this: Jul 28 17:54:37 Jul 28 17:54:37 Estel, this is same implementation of usb host mode as in hen. Only battery charging & boost is implemented in kernel and musb export speed of connected usb device to sysfs. Jul 28 17:54:56 so it indeed detects speed via guessworking on turning it on and off? Jul 28 17:55:17 I wonder if it could be made faster via database of PID&ID's, with corresponding speed attached Jul 28 17:55:32 then it would require only one ON and, in some situations, OFF and ON again on correct speed Jul 28 17:56:00 PID&VId even Jul 28 17:56:39 stop bme 2>&1|grep -q "Job not changed" && echo "bme not running!" && restartbme=false Jul 28 17:58:31 Estel_: vendor/device-id only via ENUM. ENUM only after proper speed setting Jul 28 17:58:50 but some devices works both in high-speed and full-speed Jul 28 17:59:13 time to fetch food Jul 28 17:59:19 user could set them in database to start on high-speed only (or full-speed, if desired to) Jul 28 17:59:30 we don't ENUM on a device that already signalled different speed than we used Jul 28 17:59:42 DocScrutinizer, as for stop bme, will it work on devices with system language changed? Jul 28 17:59:52 yes Jul 28 17:59:54 yes Jul 28 18:00:01 :) Jul 28 18:00:37 to make sure you can prepend "LANG=C" Jul 28 18:01:00 LANG=C stop bme 2>&1|grep -q "Job not changed" && echo "bme not running!" && restartbme=false Jul 28 18:02:19 Estel_: good point nevertheless Jul 28 18:03:38 actually you *always* should do LANG=C prior to parsing any stdout/stderr in a script Jul 28 18:05:37 t900:/sys/class# echo $LANG Jul 28 18:05:39 de_DE Jul 28 18:05:40 t900:/sys/class# start bme Jul 28 18:05:42 start: Job not changed: bme Jul 28 18:06:57 * Estel_ nods Jul 28 18:08:52 after all eventually start (aka initctl) might change to obey LANG/LOCALE setting Jul 28 18:09:49 (of course it might also change the STDERR msg any time, since that's not a specified property of the program) Jul 28 18:11:22 so a really decent design would do `start bme` twice, store output of second invocation to the grep pattern to use later on Jul 28 18:11:53 but that obviously would defeat the purpose of learning whether bme been started or not, first instance Jul 28 18:12:19 could be done in postinstall Jul 28 18:13:13 and then we'd also need a hook to initctl to rerun that charge.sh_postinstall whenever initctl gets updated or re-installed Jul 28 18:13:15 pali's script checks for /etc/bme-disabled Jul 28 18:13:26 it sounds easier Jul 28 18:14:12 well, iirc my script checks for environment var RESTART-BME, but either way somebody has to set it accordingly Jul 28 18:14:32 yeah but pali's future rx51-bme-replacement package will touch that file Jul 28 18:15:01 BUUUUG! Jul 28 18:15:24 no program should set this type of temporary 'var' in /etc Jul 28 18:15:27 hmmm? Jul 28 18:15:30 there's /var for that Jul 28 18:15:52 well, write about it to Pali, then :) Jul 28 18:16:00 :nod: Jul 28 18:16:26 BTw I wonder if Pali's kernel charging thing acts nicely with charging from PC Jul 28 18:16:41 it could be achieved easily, just cap max charging current to less than 500 mA Jul 28 18:16:58 btw pali's kernel charging thing is mutually exclusive to charge.sh ;-P Jul 28 18:17:03 like bme is Jul 28 18:17:04 I know Jul 28 18:17:14 Which doesn't mean You can't use charge21.sh with it :D Jul 28 18:17:20 as for now, it requires modprobing Jul 28 18:17:37 of course, after 100% replacing bme, no real need for doing that Jul 28 18:17:55 yes, it means exactly that: you can't use charge21.sh when that kernel bme replacement got loaded and active Jul 28 18:18:46 "you cant" as in "it's silly do so, like with bme and charge21.sh" or "you can't cause it wil leat Your brain"? Jul 28 18:19:04 it probably won't work Jul 28 18:19:23 same thoughts here, as it using similar method Jul 28 18:19:28 and it's for sure an absolutely silly thing to do, like running charge.sh and bme concurrently Jul 28 18:19:48 BTW, what IMIN stands for, in context of charging? Jul 28 18:19:58 I(min) Jul 28 18:20:03 I understood it as "charging current has been capped, as charging approach toward end" Jul 28 18:20:04 minimum Current Jul 28 18:20:08 yea Jul 28 18:20:21 but this flag never turns to 1 in my case, despite charging working correctly Jul 28 18:20:34 i.e. bq27200.sh never reports imin at 1, even if I'm 30 seconds from charging end Jul 28 18:20:55 that's caused by system eating too much power for the threshold you've set Jul 28 18:21:03 current is capped properly, just IMIN appear to be 0 Jul 28 18:21:16 I've set 100 mA threeshold and my idle system eats max 10 mA Jul 28 18:21:28 (100 mA, due to 2 cells) Jul 28 18:21:51 (in fact 100% idle eats 3-4 mA, with gsm/wifi it's 8mA) Jul 28 18:21:57 (with screen off, obviously) Jul 28 18:22:13 100mA is completely ok'ish for charge_termination_threshold, due to system usually eating more than 40mA Jul 28 18:23:13 with some kernels, the musb-core stays active and cpu locked to 500MHz when anything plugged to USB, which will make the system eat sth like 80mA minimum Jul 28 18:23:56 DocScrutinizer, sure, with stock kernel Jul 28 18:24:03 kernel-power fixed that ages ago Jul 28 18:24:06 with screen on in fact your charging never has the slightest chance to terminate by hitting threshold Jul 28 18:24:14 yep. Jul 28 18:24:25 my mA with screen on, current draw is exactly 100 mA Jul 28 18:24:32 (fluctuates between 99 and 103 mA) Jul 28 18:24:41 (with GSM on) Jul 28 18:24:42 but for a last safety measure there's some timeout in charging that kicks in after 3 or some hours Jul 28 18:24:51 sounds sane Jul 28 18:25:32 read bq24150 datasheet for exact time value of that 'watchdog' Jul 28 18:26:03 probably bme will kill that safety watchdog function as well Jul 28 18:26:30 since bme is so retarded it thinks it knows everything better than anybody else Jul 28 18:28:03 but maybe I should just STFU and enjoy my migraine. Seems it throttles my wetware to an unbearably reduced performance Jul 28 18:29:22 I'm starting to think I maybe just made up that whole charge termination timer thing Jul 28 18:31:38 anyway the rationale of charging never terminating with screen on (plus the idea that even LEDs might age and wear out) recently made me disable "keep screen backlight on while charging" setting Jul 28 18:48:46 Yeah I also think you made it up :P Jul 28 18:48:48 Estel_: (my mA with screen on, current draw is exactly 100 mA) until you switch on light in that room Jul 28 18:49:36 ...or close the curtains Jul 28 18:50:13 DocScrutinizer, no, I just use relatively low ammount of backlight (3/5) Jul 28 18:50:20 and condolences about migraine Jul 28 18:50:48 it's really nasty thing to experience Jul 28 18:51:06 Estel_: how is that justifying a "no, ..." at beginning of your sentence? Jul 28 18:51:19 I'm free from all such thing, and even "light" headache is very irritating, so... Jul 28 18:51:29 Estel_: (my mA with screen on, current draw is exactly 100 mA) until you switch on light in that room Jul 28 18:51:37 "no" as in "no", light was on in this room Jul 28 18:51:45 and ambient sensor reported "Light" Jul 28 18:51:46 mhm Jul 28 18:52:05 my system is quite power-saving :) Jul 28 18:52:27 one warning - don't touch screen, doing so results in power usage jumping higher by 40 mA ;) Jul 28 18:52:39 heh Jul 28 18:52:43 my point however been you never shall assume any particular power consumption of backlight, unless it's set to either absolute max or real 0 Jul 28 18:55:21 (power usage on touching screen) sounds correct, touching screen activates X/Y evaluation of touchpoint which in turn means you enable current flow across the resistive planes in touchpanel Jul 28 18:55:44 those are like a few 100 Ohms and voltage is several Volt Jul 28 18:55:50 DocScrutinizer, sure, + wakes CPU Jul 28 18:55:58 yep, that too Jul 28 18:55:58 (more than refreshing screen itself) Jul 28 18:56:37 and as for current of backlight, sure, I'm aware of that. some people disable ambient light sensing > screen brightness, but I like this feature Jul 28 18:56:54 btw that's why you got a hw switch/button to unlock screen Jul 28 18:57:08 ...which I love. Jul 28 18:57:23 And hate, that on N950,. they did literally 3 buttons on whole device (exluding keyboard) Jul 28 18:57:35 volume +, -, and "multi-purpose" Jul 28 18:58:01 DocScrutinizer, btw, have You noticed that after PR 1.2, N950 doesn't indicate charging by it's white led? Or is it just me? Jul 28 18:58:28 before upgrade (with developer version of software that was pre-installed) it was "breathing" similarly to n900 Jul 28 18:58:34 no, I didn't notice since I refuse to update ;-) Jul 28 18:59:10 ;) Jul 28 18:59:12 why so? Jul 28 18:59:18 irreversable Jul 28 18:59:34 sure, but beta2 is bugged as hell Jul 28 18:59:43 I don't care Jul 28 18:59:50 BTW someone need nice kick in balls for those "file itnegrity checks" Jul 28 19:00:05 probably my N950 is the only device on this planet that still has original PR Jul 28 19:00:06 well, you framed N950 and put it on the wall? :) Jul 28 19:00:34 want to sell it for 2 millions after 20 years, eh, for collectors? Jul 28 19:00:50 in 6 months, yeah Jul 28 19:00:54 I doubt that PR will matter much, it's about hardware ;) Jul 28 19:01:03 no, in 6 months it will be still no more than 1000 pounds Jul 28 19:02:05 twisted plan - prepare some miracle app for N950 that does many nice things... And have, well obfuscated, malicious code that destroyes hardware on set date Jul 28 19:02:17 then profit from having one of few remaining ones Jul 28 19:03:59 oho, it seems, that DocScrutinizer went for some coding ;) Jul 28 19:04:09 on N950 that seems simple enough to implement, thanks to all that MSSF/Aegis crap Jul 28 19:05:07 actually thanks to full fledged TrustZone implementation Jul 28 19:05:32 NOLO will do it for us Jul 28 19:05:46 (brick the device) Jul 28 19:06:25 brick is too low, we need full hardware burnout ;) Jul 28 19:06:30 something via i2c? Jul 28 19:07:19 the `touch /var/MALF` exploit to nuke all user data with the help of Aegis that's meant to *protect* user data been published by me ;-) Jul 28 19:08:29 DocScrutinizer, this trustzone implementation that bricks device, is it reversible with USB and flashing? Jul 28 19:09:13 and aegis is meant to protect user data only in marketting bullshit Jul 28 19:09:14 trustzone is the whole hw side of truste computing aka MSSF aka Aegis, in SoC Jul 28 19:09:28 it's flawed attempt to protect IP property of third parties (and fails to do so, too) Jul 28 19:09:39 exactly Jul 28 19:09:43 trusted computing is bitch itself enough Jul 28 19:10:03 no freaking way to get rid of it on N950 for good, by any means? Jul 28 19:10:28 i.e. putting hardware parts responsible for it to sleep? Jul 28 19:10:34 eternal one, for example? Jul 28 19:10:46 means are: get a free NOLO with signature, so it will get started by ROMBL Jul 28 19:11:06 god, if Jolla will make anything even slightly ressembling this approach, I'm going to hate them Jul 28 19:11:09 officially Jul 28 19:11:30 so thats why open kernel doesn't fix every problem with aegis? Jul 28 19:11:41 N900 has 'free' NOLO, HARM devices don't Jul 28 19:12:12 13% on spare n900 Jul 28 19:12:28 (open kernel) yes, it already encounters a system where stuff been locked down by NOLO Jul 28 19:12:58 and people are still crazy about n9 greatness? seriously? Jul 28 19:13:16 Estel_: e.g. the CAL partition been locked down so you can't change system lockcode Jul 28 19:14:05 ah so, that's why some people prefer inception over open kernel Jul 28 19:14:15 this lockdown of hardware is part of TrusZone[TM] Jul 28 19:14:18 I was wondering what's the all fuss about broken password funcionality Jul 28 19:14:39 TrustMyAss[TM] I wonder who got bright idea of incorporating this shit Jul 28 19:14:53 ARM afaik Jul 28 19:15:28 it's obligatory, so even willing to avoid it, nokia couldn't? Jul 28 19:15:40 the concept of normal/secure duality is in every of ARM's IP blocks afaict Jul 28 19:15:48 DocScrutinizer05: when we were discussing kernel ABI compatibility, it was fcam that we didn't know if it works, was it? Jul 28 19:15:55 well, good reason to stop using ARM chips Jul 28 19:15:57 fcam? It works fine Jul 28 19:16:00 IK'm using it every day Jul 28 19:16:56 Estel_: we have ad "deal" with doc Jul 28 19:17:01 AFAIK it was about purely "hyphotetical" closed source 3rd party application that might not work Jul 28 19:17:01 I know Jul 28 19:17:03 remember it ;) Jul 28 19:17:10 was here when deal was made Jul 28 19:17:22 still, it's kinda hard to fight against hyphotetical, non existing program concept Jul 28 19:17:42 freemangordon: I can't recall. Esp since it's not been me who picked a particular app/.ko. My point always been we don't know how many such custom .ko are out there, so we need a generic solution that is suuposed to work with arbitrary such .ko Jul 28 19:17:58 DocScrutinizer51: :nod: Jul 28 19:18:42 DocScrutinizer05: so far it seems all known applications wotk Jul 28 19:19:15 because noone knows anything besides joikushit and fcam Jul 28 19:19:43 the deal been: demonstrate you new kernel can load arbitrary .ko built for stock kernel Jul 28 19:20:17 DocScrutinizer05: are fcam drivers applicable for that? Jul 28 19:20:33 freemangordon, fcam is supposed to work? which version of cssu-thumb? Jul 28 19:20:42 any arbitrary .ko is applicable for that Jul 28 19:21:04 qwazix: just installed fcam from repos and it works like charm Jul 28 19:21:10 as long as it's built for stock kernel, not a patched version compiled against your new kernel Jul 28 19:21:38 on my development device, freshly flashed and -thumb installed on top of that Jul 28 19:21:45 qwazix: ^^^ Jul 28 19:21:55 freemangordon, doesn't work for me but I still have the initial cssu-thumb. Not sure it's thumb related as neither camera-ui works Jul 28 19:22:28 qwazix: it is not thumb related, see ^^^ Jul 28 19:22:34 basically your new kernel needs to work when flashed to device with stock kernel, even when no kernel-modules are replaced to match your new kernel Jul 28 19:22:38 that's the deal Jul 28 19:22:42 ok thanks for the info, will reflash Jul 28 19:22:49 DocScrutinizer51: exactly what I did Jul 28 19:22:58 DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ Jul 28 19:23:10 sound great Jul 28 19:23:16 this device has never seen any KP on it Jul 28 19:23:51 now, I suspect we need a confirmation from another user Jul 28 19:24:00 DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ ? Jul 28 19:24:21 not today, I'm all but fit for such demanding taks Jul 28 19:24:24 tasks Jul 28 19:24:42 yeah, but maybe tomorrow? :P Jul 28 19:24:58 but you bet I'll check your 100% ABI compatible kernel thoroughly eventually ;-D Jul 28 19:25:56 yes, that was my idea too. Take one of your spare devices, flash PR1.3 on it, enable -thumb repo (as it is the place where you can get the kernel), upgrade, install fcam Jul 28 19:26:18 pick one of my "virgin" N900, do flasher --kernel-only -f -F Jul 28 19:26:32 DocScrutinizer05: you must be kidding Jul 28 19:26:44 where are kernel modules? Jul 28 19:26:54 on device Jul 28 19:26:58 omap1? Jul 28 19:27:05 come on Jul 28 19:27:07 [2012-07-28 21:22:34] basically your new kernel needs to work when flashed to device with stock kernel, even when no kernel-modules are replaced to match your new kernel Jul 28 19:27:31 DocScrutinizer05: you are kidding me, right? Jul 28 19:27:46 the device won;t bott, so skip that Jul 28 19:27:52 not at all, that's what ABI compatibility means Jul 28 19:27:58 no, it is not Jul 28 19:28:25 .ko is supposed to be loaded in the running kernel, right? Jul 28 19:28:56 we are talking about any 3rd party .ko Jul 28 19:29:16 kernel modules koming with -omap1 are not third party Jul 28 19:29:19 *coming Jul 28 19:30:44 anyway, I gtg now, will continue tomorrow on that Jul 28 19:32:19 well, it looks like DocScrutinizer mean "every possible .ko", which means, that such ABI compatible kernel would need to be direct copy of stock kernel. Which of course is impossible scenario, so I feel thjat fork is imminent Jul 28 19:32:53 it would be nice if atleast package management refused to install such .ko Jul 28 19:33:23 ShadowJK, but any 3rd party .ko works. DocScrutinizer demans now compatibility with omap1 kernel modules pre-loaded Jul 28 19:33:28 during boot time Jul 28 19:33:33 which is impossible scenario Jul 28 19:33:54 You can't flasher --kernel-only -f -F without modules, and expect it to work Jul 28 19:34:01 unless you're flashing same kernel Jul 28 19:34:13 or an ABI-compatible one Jul 28 19:34:17 that's the point Jul 28 19:34:22 bullshit, kerio Jul 28 19:34:32 there is difference between clone and ABI compatibility Jul 28 19:34:35 i suppose doc can allow you to change the directory name in /lib/modules Jul 28 19:34:36 [2012-07-28 21:17:41] freemangordon: I can't recall. Esp since it's not been me who picked a particular app/.ko. My point always been we don't know how many such custom .ko are out there, so we need a generic solution that is suuposed to work with arbitrary such .ko Jul 28 19:34:38 [2012-07-28 21:17:58] DocScrutinizer51: :nod: Jul 28 19:34:40 >:D Jul 28 19:34:45 ~dict arbitrary Jul 28 19:34:47 Dictionary 'arbitrary' (1 of 4): based on or subject to individual discretion or preference or sometimes impulse or caprice; "an arbitrary decision"; "the arbitrary rule of a dictator"; "an arbitrary penalty"; "of arbitrary size and shape"; "an arbitrary choice"; "arbitrary division of the group into halves" . Jul 28 19:35:09 "arbitrary rule of dictator" fits best here Jul 28 19:35:20 such requiments is as good as saying "no because no" Jul 28 19:35:32 that's nonsense Jul 28 19:35:44 even goddamnit update to stock kernel would require it's modules Jul 28 19:36:08 in my book, comaptibility with arbitraty .ko is when You can load any 3rd party .ko during runtime Jul 28 19:36:30 You know as good as I, that compatibility with omap1 modules required for boot will be never achieved, ans shouldn't Jul 28 19:36:40 as it doesn't mirror any real life situation Jul 28 19:36:53 mirror mirror can you tell Jul 28 19:37:00 who is more handsome than me Jul 28 19:37:16 kernel-power is ;) Jul 28 19:37:19 freemangordon agreed to the rationale of a kernel needing ABI compatibilty as long as he thought he can cheat for a particular randomly picked .ko like fcam. True ABI compatibility however means ... well *compatible*, without any preconditions like 23rd party" Jul 28 19:37:23 Estel_; oh hey I noticed I forgot to change one 950 to 1250, why sys and ch made no sense Jul 28 19:37:55 DocScrutinizer05: not allowing the kernel's own modules is bullshit, and you know it too Jul 28 19:38:06 DocScrutinizer, I would not use word "cheat". It's jsut liek You both see this "deal" as different things. Now when it's fixed, I still think that fork is unavoidable ;) Jul 28 19:38:15 ShadowJK, huh? Jul 28 19:38:29 for instance, there could be the need for a module that loads other modules in a wrapper Jul 28 19:38:34 thansk a lot for looking into it. Where to fix it, which line? Jul 28 19:38:47 kerio: I always told I don't see this ABI compatible kernel ever happening Jul 28 19:39:05 the point is that no one ever see need for such interpretation of ABI compatibility Jul 28 19:39:06 Estel_; in calculate_system_use there are two places with 950, both should be changed to 1250 for charging at 1250 Jul 28 19:39:10 it's rather demanding for sake of demanding Jul 28 19:39:20 those two numbers should be same as the configured charge rate Jul 28 19:39:43 but don't tell me now I would tell BS, when it turns out you made false implicit assumptions about how to achieve ABI compatibility Jul 28 19:40:23 DocScrutinizer, I haven't made any assumption, just explaining missunderstanding between You and freemangordon Jul 28 19:40:29 it's not my problem (directly), after all Jul 28 19:40:35 ShadowJK, my copy have 1250 there?... Jul 28 19:41:01 SYSTEM_USE=$((1250-RATE)) Jul 28 19:41:11 this one, for example? Is it this? Jul 28 19:41:41 oh Jul 28 19:41:54 It is it* Jul 28 19:42:05 after all, if you can't make your "ABI compatibe" kernel work even with known stock .ko, how would you *guarantee* it will work for any random custom .ko you didn't know about right now? Jul 28 19:42:11 DocScrutinizer05: with that restriction, the only possible things are very minor patches, if anything Jul 28 19:42:20 also the if -gt 950 line above Jul 28 19:42:40 yea, it's 1250 by default in file You've linked me last time Jul 28 19:42:55 oh Jul 28 19:43:10 Still thanks :) Jul 28 19:43:13 which could be fine, i suppose - the thumb2 errata workaround isn't that invasive, after all Jul 28 19:43:23 should I upload it for You, to avoid need for rewriting already written thing? Jul 28 19:43:37 lol nah Jul 28 19:44:12 i think I'll rebase a new charge22 off of charge3 experimental branch Jul 28 19:44:14 DocScrutinizer05: go read some definition of WTF running kernel is, it is not "the stuff flashed on /dev/mtdN" Jul 28 19:44:36 kerio: that's not completely correct. Any such ABI compatible kernel could still install *additional* .ko, and/or replace one or two or even 5 .ko with bugfixed versions _*as long as the stock kernel would work with those fixed .ko*_ as well Jul 28 19:44:36 the kernel definition includes .ko files compiled for that kernel Jul 28 19:44:39 ShadowJK, nice, whatever it means ;) Jul 28 19:44:50 if you don;t know that, well, go lerna it Jul 28 19:44:54 *learn Jul 28 19:45:01 bb, i am out Jul 28 19:45:35 Estel_; the differences between "stable" charge2* branch and my private branch are messing with my head Jul 28 19:45:57 gentlemans, peace, no need for arguing (Am I saying that?). Fork is always proven way to resolve unresolveable conflicts of dogmatic values ;) Jul 28 19:46:13 freemangordon: so your definition of ABI compatibility is "it's using .ko compiled for that kernel version"? sure! Jul 28 19:46:17 ShadowJK, I would gladly be tester of it Jul 28 19:46:38 * ShadowJK noticed charge21 doesnt blink leds Jul 28 19:46:49 unfortunately, it doesn't :D Jul 28 19:47:13 is new version using charging pattern from mce? Jul 28 19:47:16 mce.ini Jul 28 19:47:33 ya Jul 28 19:47:51 sounds nice. I wonder if Pali based kernel implementation in new version Jul 28 19:47:55 or outdated one Jul 28 19:48:11 i dont think it'd be sane to use either Jul 28 19:48:56 18% and still charging at 1250-ish Jul 28 19:49:16 oops now main n900 is out of batt Jul 28 19:51:04 freemangordon_: your hostmask is ~freemango@... Jul 28 19:51:10 ShadowJK, and it's providing *real* 1250 of power? Jul 28 19:51:20 i want a free mango Jul 28 19:51:24 estel_, re: {,b}ash: I wholeheartly disagree, now I find it hell trying to adapt to bash and I do think that on the phone a helpful context-aware shell is of even more use than on your real machine. Jul 28 19:51:30 Close to it, 1100 rate into battery Jul 28 19:52:01 japh, but I don't protest against ash :) Jul 28 19:52:27 23 percent charge now, and rate is dropping Jul 28 19:52:30 ShadowJK, I thinkit will work for me to, it was jsut silly me to use it without stopping bme Jul 28 19:52:43 temperature? Jul 28 19:53:02 41 Jul 28 19:53:20 nice. DocScrutinizer, what is normal temeprature of choke accomodating chip? Jul 28 19:53:31 should be similar to one of chip measuring temperature? Jul 28 19:53:31 Heh, I took out spare wallcharger from box, but the plug was so tight I didn't dare push it in Jul 28 19:54:02 ShadowJK, with N950 they did it even worse - plug was so tight that I almsot had to rip it off to take it out Jul 28 19:54:05 and push with hammer Jul 28 19:54:16 needed quitew a lot of work to make it normal Jul 28 19:54:18 kerio: that's my n900 connected through my mobile provider ;-) Jul 28 19:54:38 free mango r don Jul 28 19:54:39 26%, 1000mA into battery Jul 28 19:54:50 ShadowJK, shoudl rate drop so early? Jul 28 19:54:55 should* Jul 28 19:54:58 more or less Jul 28 19:55:11 It'd stay higher for longer with a japod Jul 28 19:55:17 Estel_: sorry, please rephrase Jul 28 19:55:20 spare n900 has nokia bl-5j Jul 28 19:55:55 ShadowJK: try pencil Jul 28 19:56:03 hm? Jul 28 19:56:05 oh Jul 28 19:56:18 DocScrutinizer, I'm asking about normal temperature, that choke accomodating charging chip should have Jul 28 19:56:29 * ShadowJK is charging main n900 from an "emergency charger" thing now Jul 28 19:56:43 from AA battery?;) Jul 28 19:56:55 yes, 4 AA batteries Jul 28 19:56:59 Estel_: by 'normal' you mean what's a still tolerable temperature for the choke? Jul 28 19:57:15 DocScrutinizer, I wonder what temperature would be "regular" one Jul 28 19:57:26 i.e. which one should warn about something going on bad Jul 28 19:57:28 I dunno Jul 28 19:57:30 to stop it on time Jul 28 19:57:32 30% 990 mA Jul 28 19:57:37 i wouldn't mind carrying 1kg of battery power to feed this hungry phone, but the wires would be the issue Jul 28 19:57:50 RiD, why 1G, You just need dual-scud Jul 28 19:57:52 aha, well, warning level starts at maybe 150°C Jul 28 19:57:59 triple-scud! Jul 28 19:58:02 not enough, Estel_ Jul 28 19:58:04 DocScrutinizer, uh Jul 28 19:58:14 * ShadowJK copes with single japod Jul 28 19:58:21 Estel_: make an otterbox with enough space for three batteries plskthx Jul 28 19:58:25 RiD, so you may feel tasty project of bvringing 2x 18650 which total in 6,800 mAh Jul 28 19:58:33 yes I do. Jul 28 19:58:37 Estel_: but usually it won't get hot at all Jul 28 19:58:57 DocScrutinizer, I see, well I would like to ensure that it's not stressed more than it should at all Jul 28 19:59:02 unless it runs into saturation where it rises temperature extremely sharp Jul 28 19:59:06 so I suspect it shouldn't be considerably hotter than battery cell Jul 28 19:59:43 as a rule of thumb if your burn your thumb on it, sth is wrong Jul 28 19:59:48 RiD, search for my [Pre pre pre] annoucement of black alu body Jul 28 19:59:54 You can even pre-order :) Jul 28 20:00:05 I already saw it. Too bad I won't preorder Jul 28 20:00:05 DocScrutinizer, hehe Jul 28 20:00:13 RiD, no problem Jul 28 20:00:50 BTw I wonder why nanowire LiIon's concept is so stalled Jul 28 20:01:22 35%, rate 964 sys -66 ch 1030 Jul 28 20:02:08 sys -66? with screen on? Jul 28 20:02:23 Estel_; basically all battery techs you hear about are 10 years out from being comercial, and even then the patents will make it unobtainable for another 5-10? Jul 28 20:02:29 off Jul 28 20:02:52 ShadowJK, sounds sane Jul 28 20:02:53 it gets closer to truth once battery gets a bit fuller Jul 28 20:04:07 Guys, I get real problem. Since month or more, no matter, what, I can't make mafw to play my .ogg music and theora videos Jul 28 20:04:31 filetypes are registered with tracker. as for .ogg files, it even KNOW playtime of file Jul 28 20:04:34 yet, it refuses to play Jul 28 20:04:43 it started with CSSU update to something tracker related Jul 28 20:04:53 I tried rebuilding 5tracker database countless of times Jul 28 20:05:02 interesingly, .flac works well Jul 28 20:05:15 my music collection is entirely in .ogg... Jul 28 20:05:39 Estel_: are you using OMP? Jul 28 20:05:40 lol. FOSS fail. Jul 28 20:05:55 kerio, sure, but it shouldn't matter, as it's playing through mafw Jul 28 20:06:03 for other openmediaplayer users, .ogg works Jul 28 20:06:17 i don't have an .ogg to test Jul 28 20:06:18 :s Jul 28 20:07:03 so you chose music through OMP, it opens, tells you track length but does not actually play? Jul 28 20:09:18 vi_, yes Jul 28 20:09:37 If I have playlsit of .ogg files, it shows correct play time of them all, then, correct play time of individual song when i start playing... Jul 28 20:09:42 but jsut cycles through all songs Jul 28 20:09:48 i.e. tries to play any of it Jul 28 20:10:08 if I would have, lets say, fuckin mp3 in playlist, it would start playing it normally, after cycling through .ogg earlier on playlist Jul 28 20:10:14 then, it would stil lfail on next .ogg Jul 28 20:10:31 well, tracker even properly catalogs albums from those .ogg files Jul 28 20:11:57 i have a song that's not indexed properly :( Jul 28 20:12:18 kerio, http://lorienart.pl/Blood-Roses.ogg Jul 28 20:14:05 1890 Seconds, 50% charged, rate: 840, sys: -53, ch: 893, voltage 4.082 Jul 28 20:14:17 6 - 50% in half an hour Jul 28 20:14:39 well, sounds sane, consideringf 1250 charge Jul 28 20:14:45 625 is half of it Jul 28 20:14:50 which is close to being half of Your battery Jul 28 20:14:55 2 hours or so left to reach full :P Jul 28 20:15:00 ShadowJK: those numbers puzzle hell outa me Jul 28 20:15:03 saturation charge ;) Jul 28 20:15:21 ShadowJK, You may just settle with "fast charge" i.e. 80% or so Jul 28 20:15:30 stop doing it when current reaches 50% of set one Jul 28 20:15:42 healthy for battery, and quick on charging time Jul 28 20:16:12 oh ok, touching the file and killing tracker solved it Jul 28 20:16:15 ShadowJK: probably my idea of meaning of "rate" "sys" and "charge" is not in line with yours ;-) Jul 28 20:16:51 If your commute is half hour long, and you have a decent car charger in yor car, you get half your battery charged when driving home from work, if you used up most of it at work :) Jul 28 20:16:57 ShadowJK, so there is completely no sue of assumed 132 mOhm resistance between charger and battery, in bq27200.sh? Jul 28 20:17:11 DocScrutinizer; rate is rate as reported by bq27200, the rest are made up Jul 28 20:17:33 but charge is not entirely made up, as it read from limits Jul 28 20:17:45 Estel_; it doesnt make any difference for bq27200 Jul 28 20:17:58 i.e it was made up when i was trying to charge with 1250 with bme on (due to 950 limit), but without it, it limits current to 900 in later parts of charge, etc Jul 28 20:18:04 ShadowJK, I see Jul 28 20:18:15 so what is exactly affected by it in charge21.sh? Jul 28 20:18:32 well, for me that reads like rate is what bq24150 is set to, sys is delivering(!) 53mA to result in a total charge to battery of 893 Jul 28 20:18:47 nah. Jul 28 20:18:54 did anyone try a boxwave external case for the n900? Jul 28 20:19:15 bq24150 outputs 4.2V, but there's voltage drop due to the current flowing through narrow pcb traces, so less than 4.2V arrives at battery Jul 28 20:19:15 vi_, no ideas about my .ogg problem with mafw? Jul 28 20:19:20 kerio, tried file I've linked You? Jul 28 20:19:30 oh, sorry, not yet Jul 28 20:19:35 ShadowJK, I see Jul 28 20:19:53 kerio, if You could download it and check if it plays ok for You... CSSU-T and openmediaplayer, yep? Jul 28 20:20:23 DocScrutinizer; net rate into battery is 840, system consumes 53 (estimated), charger is providing 893 (estimated) Jul 28 20:20:27 Estel_: huh, i can't download it anymore Jul 28 20:20:42 Real actual system use is at or below 20mA Jul 28 20:20:47 no, nvm Jul 28 20:20:59 ShadowJK: :nod: - just the naming and display is confusing to me Jul 28 20:21:09 or should be around that in offline mode screen off and 5sec charge21.sh loop Jul 28 20:21:51 klerio, http://lorienart.pl/Blood-Roses.ogg Jul 28 20:21:54 kerio* Jul 28 20:22:17 I mostly added the ch column to see the point at which the charger isn't outputting full current anymore, point at which it enters CV portion of charge Jul 28 20:22:27 and it's very usefull Jul 28 20:23:23 2450s, 4.093V, 60%, net rate 754, system use 56, charger current 810 Jul 28 20:23:33 since a few days my n900 does not answer to ping and all ports appear as filtered. iptables -L shows no rules at all. what can be wrong? Jul 28 20:23:50 wifi ap powersaving fail Jul 28 20:25:00 * ShadowJK recalls his Diablo era awk script where he called "rate" balance Jul 28 20:27:28 did anyone try a boxwave and/or otterbox case for the n900? Jul 28 20:27:56 Estel_: plays fine here. Jul 28 20:28:10 kerio: I have an otterbox. Jul 28 20:28:16 is it worth it? Jul 28 20:28:28 makes the tank like n900 EVEN MOR TANK LIKE. Jul 28 20:28:36 I think so. Jul 28 20:28:42 AWESOEM Jul 28 20:29:00 my one is getting pretty fucked. Jul 28 20:29:03 D: Jul 28 20:29:06 so it breaks? Jul 28 20:29:17 no, it can take it. Jul 28 20:29:24 k Jul 28 20:29:40 I just goes to show how much abuse my n900 has been saved from. Jul 28 20:29:58 big gouges and shit out of it. Jul 28 20:29:59 vi_, well, for me it doesn't and I have no diea what else could i purge and reinstall Jul 28 20:30:03 but it's really irritating Jul 28 20:30:20 Estel_: I have not idea, sorry. Jul 28 20:30:29 Estel_: reflash! Jul 28 20:30:38 sure, thanks ;P Jul 28 20:30:44 it's on top list of my dreams Jul 28 20:30:49 Estel_: does it work with stock media player? Jul 28 20:31:19 good question. Now I need only to find again this value, that I edited ages ago, to replace opening with openmediaplayer with openmediaplayer Jul 28 20:31:23 some dbus call or what? Jul 28 20:31:33 kerio: be warned, it makes the massive n900 SUPERMASSIVE. Jul 28 20:31:52 men will mock it, women will fear it. Jul 28 20:31:56 Estel_: plays fine here Jul 28 20:32:25 it is written on the OMP wiki entry. Jul 28 20:33:06 Estel_: have you tried 'clearing' the OMP playlist? Jul 28 20:34:08 wtf, dealextreme is selling Nokia N9 Jul 28 20:34:15 vi_, as for playlist, sure Jul 28 20:34:19 thanks, will check on wiki Jul 28 20:34:26 ShadowJK, fake? Jul 28 20:34:40 at the price it better be real Jul 28 20:34:41 dealextreme are a hoax. Jul 28 20:34:42 lately I seen fake N900's with similarly looking keyboard and screen (camera placement etc) Jul 28 20:34:59 lol Jul 28 20:35:11 vi_, for theora it's even more strange Jul 28 20:35:20 http://lorienart.pl/theora.png Jul 28 20:35:43 it says "Failed to open file. Failed to find coded:" Jul 28 20:35:46 rest is in english Jul 28 20:35:58 wtf it means is a mystery to me, what appendx Jul 28 20:36:10 hey do not carry half their stuff in stock. Then they will hold your entire order back for months while they wait for whatever shithole human rights abuse factory to make more. Jul 28 20:36:13 of course it also know theora file playtime properly Jul 28 20:36:32 theora.png? Jul 28 20:36:38 screenshot Jul 28 20:36:44 of error message Jul 28 20:36:46 ]it worked well before Jul 28 20:36:51 anmd i'm sure it will work for You too Jul 28 20:37:21 fuck theora. Jul 28 20:37:26 fuck ogg. Jul 28 20:38:06 Estel_: reinstall MAFW? Jul 28 20:38:18 vi_; they dont have even 1% in stock Jul 28 20:38:49 at the bottom of each page you can see the name of the real seller of the product Jul 28 20:39:22 ShadowJK: they have some wierd shit as well, like placenta extract. Jul 28 20:39:28 They've been pretty good at splitting orders for me Jul 28 20:39:58 vi_; well it's almost like ebay, chinese supplier gets user/pass to the site and starts listing random crap :P Jul 28 20:40:32 yay, bought an otterbox Jul 28 20:40:35 vi_, maybe, but I doubt it will fix it :P Jul 28 20:40:49 it's something retardish related to tracker I'm afraid Jul 28 20:41:40 Estel_: I doubt it. Jul 28 20:41:48 hm, will check stock player first... Jul 28 20:42:11 but x-annodex-decoder plugin? Jul 28 20:42:14 Estel_: reinstalling mafw will run mafw post inst scripts. they might contain some magic. Jul 28 20:42:14 wtf? Jul 28 20:42:20 true Jul 28 20:42:28 will; try that immediately after trying stock player Jul 28 20:42:38 extra-decoders? Jul 28 20:42:39 1 hour, 4.125V, 937mAh, 76%, rate 523, sys -45, ch 568 Jul 28 20:43:07 kerio: You will need to loosen your belt to fix that massive thing in your pants. Jul 28 20:43:21 vi_: i have big pants Jul 28 20:43:24 s/fix/fit/ Jul 28 20:43:24 vi_ meant: kerio: You will need to loosen your belt to fit that massive thing in your pants. Jul 28 20:43:31 should i also buy some screen protectors? Jul 28 20:43:37 lmao, I've created this wiki page for OMP Jul 28 20:43:48 and now I forget that it existed Jul 28 20:44:23 as for extra-decoders, of course I've reinstalled them plentora of times, to no avail Jul 28 20:49:08 vi_, stock mediaplayer just says it can't open file due to lack of codec Jul 28 20:49:16 for .ogg it says audio codec, for theora video codec Jul 28 20:49:22 of course, it also knows exact playtime and tags from it Jul 28 20:49:29 going to reinstall mafw Jul 28 20:52:16 1 hour 10 minutes: 83%, 421mA into batt, 41 system use, charger outputting 462 Jul 28 20:54:48 i repeat my question: should i buy some screen protectors? Jul 28 20:54:52 dafaq, KDE + apps gets more INstable the older it grows Jul 28 20:55:12 * ShadowJK likes screen protector Jul 28 20:55:26 ^q in a konversation-tab: insta-segfault Jul 28 20:56:34 \o/ reproduceable Jul 28 20:56:54 ~lart KDE4 Jul 28 20:56:55 * infobot turns KDE4 into a lifesized tux doll Jul 28 20:57:58 sure thing >:-(((( Jul 28 20:58:02 [KCrash Handler] Jul 28 20:58:03 #6 0x00007fd69b3d3cc7 in Phonon::PulseSupport::PulseSupport() () from /usr/lib64/libphonon.so.4 Jul 28 20:58:33 FSCK PA! Jul 28 20:58:41 fsck phonon Jul 28 20:58:53 seems I said that before Jul 28 20:59:07 yo dawg i heard you like audio daemons so we put a daemon in yo daemon so you can audio while you crash Jul 28 20:59:34 kerio: lol Jul 28 20:59:58 also, yes. buy the best screen protector you can get. Jul 28 21:00:12 hm :c Jul 28 21:00:18 but the screen is already scratched a bit Jul 28 21:00:23 won't it be awful when applied? Jul 28 21:00:37 you will see how fucked your screen protector gets and think, shit. I am glad that is not my screen. Jul 28 21:00:57 kerio: no. Jul 28 21:01:01 kerio: :-D Jul 28 21:01:59 I recommend the vikuiti screen protectors. Jul 28 21:02:19 they cost around 7 euro each. Jul 28 21:02:25 but they are worth it. Jul 28 21:03:31 vi_: amazon it doesn't sell them directly, so no Prime :( Jul 28 21:04:31 * ShadowJK also has Vikuiti, it's awesome Jul 28 21:04:40 are folix screen protectors any good? Jul 28 21:05:32 kerio: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vikuiti-screen-protector-DQC160-Nokia/dp/B002W5272A/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1343509480&sr=1-1 Jul 28 21:05:43 vi_: notice how that's not amazon IT Jul 28 21:06:20 yes. It is shipped from germany. Jul 28 21:06:31 just order through amazon.com Jul 28 21:07:24 I'M IN FUCKING ITALY Jul 28 21:08:03 * ShadowJK ordered it from protectionfilms24 Jul 28 21:15:31 kerio: you *can* order from other amazons, I bought books in .uk and .us Jul 28 21:16:24 kerio: GOOD FOR YOU SON. Jul 28 21:17:29 StyXman_: yeah but not with Prime Jul 28 21:17:31 which is awesome Jul 28 21:17:55 * DocScrutinizer05 slaps kerio with 50m of inch wide scotch tape Jul 28 21:18:25 *mmmmmmmph mmmmmmph mmmmmmmmmmph!* Jul 28 21:19:38 well, I use protectors that cost 0,50 euro each, and are absolutely gorgeous and scratch resistant Jul 28 21:19:41 really! Jul 28 21:20:27 this type of polycarbonate, that have 2 foild protecting it, one with red sticker "rem,ove before application" and one blue with "remove after application" Jul 28 21:20:29 never failed me Jul 28 21:20:58 BTW, most of "manufacturers" just use foil from same source and re-brand it Jul 28 21:21:14 my favorite one comes as BlueStar, GT, and so goes on Jul 28 21:27:05 kerio: prime as in condoms? go to the closest drugstore, you lazy bum! :-P Jul 28 21:29:47 ~dict prime Jul 28 21:29:49 Dictionary 'prime' (1 of 17): \Prime\, a. [F., fr. L. primus first, a superl. corresponding to the compar. prior former. See {Prior}, a., {Foremost}, {Former}, and cf. {Prim}, a., {Primary}, {Prince}.] 1. First in order of time; original; primeval; primitive; primary. "Prime forests." --Tennyson. [1913 Webster] She was not the prime cause, but I myself. --Milton. [1913 Webster] Note: In this sense the word is nearly superseded by primitive, except ... Jul 28 21:32:36 ~botsnack Jul 28 21:32:36 :), DocScrutinizer05 Jul 28 21:33:30 freemangordon: ping Jul 28 21:42:53 qwazix_900: oh, caught ya Jul 28 21:42:55 cssu update appears to be stuck Jul 28 21:45:04 what do you mean stuck? Jul 28 21:45:45 and by cssu update do you actually mean cssu-thumb update? Jul 28 21:45:51 progress bar was all the way to the end, phone didn't respond to any input Jul 28 21:46:11 just pulled out the battery, booting now Jul 28 21:46:16 so you left it there for a good LONG wgile right? Jul 28 21:46:33 was in that state for at least half an hour Jul 28 21:47:08 what did you use to update? Jul 28 21:47:19 update manager Jul 28 21:47:25 the default one Jul 28 21:47:35 although i have fapman installed too Jul 28 21:48:00 booted yet? Jul 28 21:48:03 don't use the phone as my primary any more, though Jul 28 21:48:13 desktop just appeared, loading icons Jul 28 21:48:26 from xterm enter dpkg -l | grep mp- Jul 28 21:48:35 what is the version that appears Jul 28 21:50:36 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo4.1 Jul 28 21:51:24 wait, you are on cssu-t. Jul 28 21:51:42 yes Jul 28 21:51:52 is there a stable cssu, perhaps? Jul 28 21:52:02 do you have devel enabled? Jul 28 21:52:14 possibly Jul 28 21:52:22 * evil|Jonne checks Jul 28 21:52:48 i use the n9 as my phone now, so rarely use/boot my n900 any more Jul 28 21:52:56 it feels unbearibly slow Jul 28 21:54:07 realy? mine is as slippy as bulgarian butter. Jul 28 21:54:18 yeah, extras testing is on Jul 28 21:54:36 from xterm run apt-get update Jul 28 21:54:48 then apt-get -f install Jul 28 21:54:56 (as root) Jul 28 21:55:20 qwazix: pong Jul 28 21:55:58 with devel enabled or disabled? Jul 28 21:56:06 disabled! Jul 28 21:56:18 i just disabled it (it's still running its apt-get update thing) Jul 28 21:57:00 not sure why i had devel on in the first place Jul 28 21:57:30 evil|Jonne: because that ia where all the ool shit is. Jul 28 21:57:38 lol Jul 28 21:57:41 s/col/cool/ Jul 28 21:57:54 s/ool/cool/ Jul 28 21:57:55 vi_ meant: evil|Jonne: because that ia where all the cool shit is. Jul 28 21:58:03 apt-get -f install didn't do anything, i have 3 packages that are held back Jul 28 21:58:08 lol, fail Jul 28 21:58:26 what are the helb back? Jul 28 21:58:36 ^held Jul 28 21:58:38 well, 3 not upgraded Jul 28 21:58:46 which are? Jul 28 21:59:13 usually means you need to run dist-upgrade, but on maemo you should just leave them as they are (i heard) Jul 28 21:59:23 :nod: Jul 28 21:59:36 kernel-power libgcc1 libstdc++6 Jul 28 21:59:54 that is ok Jul 28 22:00:16 though it is strange KP is help back, any multiboot installed? Jul 28 22:00:24 no Jul 28 22:00:33 evil|Jonne: you sure you have devel disabled? Jul 28 22:00:41 not sure why maemo is different from other distro's that use apt, though Jul 28 22:01:10 evil|Jonne: could you please make sure you don't have extras-devel enabled? Jul 28 22:01:14 in that regard Jul 28 22:01:27 as libgcc anlibstdc are only in extras-devel Jul 28 22:01:51 evil|Jonne: edit $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jul 28 22:02:01 evil|Jonne: edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jul 28 22:02:20 comment out testing and devel Jul 28 22:02:27 apt-get update Jul 28 22:02:30 vi_: why edit, HAM will overwite tose Jul 28 22:02:34 *those Jul 28 22:02:45 better disable them from HAM Jul 28 22:02:53 though it will take some time Jul 28 22:02:54 :D Jul 28 22:03:11 freemangordon: yes, however this guy is not a noob and it is quicker to edit that file and just use apt. Jul 28 22:03:14 yeah, don't know where the actual sources are stored, maemo is weird that way Jul 28 22:03:25 vi_: aah, ok Jul 28 22:03:31 evil|Jonne: edit $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jul 28 22:03:38 evil|Jonne: edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jul 28 22:03:41 freemangordon: my HAM takes 12 minutes for apt-worker to do whatever it's supposed to do, if i tell it to reload the repos Jul 28 22:03:56 kerio: ham sucks balls. Jul 28 22:03:56 kerio: disable -testing and -devel Jul 28 22:03:59 deal Jul 28 22:04:00 with Jul 28 22:04:02 it Jul 28 22:04:03 freemangordon: i don't have -testing enabled Jul 28 22:04:04 why would i Jul 28 22:04:06 i have -devel Jul 28 22:04:13 they're nested Jul 28 22:04:14 or something Jul 28 22:04:22 no, they are not Jul 28 22:04:23 sources.list is empty? Jul 28 22:04:28 is that normal? Jul 28 22:04:36 evil|Jonne: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jul 28 22:04:36 freemangordon: are there packages in extras and/or extras-testing that are not in -devel? Jul 28 22:04:49 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ Jul 28 22:04:49 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/002 ./ Jul 28 22:04:49 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle1.2/ovi/ ./ Jul 28 22:04:49 deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free Jul 28 22:04:49 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle free non-free Jul 28 22:04:50 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing fremantle free non-free Jul 28 22:04:52 kerio: versions are different usually Jul 28 22:04:57 is in hildon-app....list Jul 28 22:05:00 freemangordon: ...oh really Jul 28 22:05:16 evil|Jonne: remove deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing fremantle free non-free Jul 28 22:05:56 kerio: remove extras-devel and HAM will update in 2-3 minutes Jul 28 22:06:09 freemangordon: but i don't wanna D: Jul 28 22:06:19 2-3 minutes?? thats bloody fast. Jul 28 22:06:20 i just don't use HAM :) Jul 28 22:06:54 vi_: yes, -testing and -devel is what brings HAM on its knees Jul 28 22:06:54 i can confirm that HAM is ridiculously slow Jul 28 22:07:06 evil|Jonne: no need, we all know that :) Jul 28 22:07:23 even slower than ubuntu's botching of apt Jul 28 22:07:28 evil|Jonne: but if you disable -testing catalog you'll be surprised Jul 28 22:07:43 fuck ubuntu. Jul 28 22:07:50 debian for life. Jul 28 22:08:11 vi_: shhht, i im going to replace my windoze with ubuntu (some day) :P Jul 28 22:08:20 * evil|Jonne still uses ubuntu, but i've seen apt get slower and slower over the years Jul 28 22:08:26 s/i im/ I am/ Jul 28 22:08:26 freemangordon meant: vi_: shhht, I am going to replace my windoze with ubuntu (some day) :P Jul 28 22:08:34 freemangordon: dont bother. ubuntu is so fucking lame. Jul 28 22:08:52 Your better of with windows 7. Jul 28 22:09:00 i basically still use it out of habit, don't use unity or anything Jul 28 22:09:07 we,, i instaled 12.04 on the desktop in my office and with LXDE it is ok Jul 28 22:09:14 (ewwwnity) Jul 28 22:09:23 vi_: WHAT windoze 7 Jul 28 22:09:29 hahaha Jul 28 22:09:41 no way, i'd better put DOS 3.30 on it Jul 28 22:09:51 freedos for life Jul 28 22:09:56 freemangordon: i have a shitton of repos enabled anyway Jul 28 22:10:34 vi_: did you find some lab rat to test RAM usage? Jul 28 22:10:59 vi_, what DE do you use? Jul 28 22:11:08 or are you a TTY man? Jul 28 22:13:05 evil|Jonne: it is all about the lxde these days. Jul 28 22:13:24 i have lxde on my netbook Jul 28 22:13:28 freemangordon, latest kernel as per features/bugfixes is kp51r or kernel-cssu? Jul 28 22:13:37 is it safe to install things form thumb repo today? Jul 28 22:13:56 vi_, reinstalling mafw haven't solved issue Jul 28 22:14:03 It's really pissing me off Jul 28 22:14:10 evil|Jonne: although I am ALWAYS ssh'd into my n900 so TTY is also good for me. Jul 28 22:14:19 Estel_: ...re-flash time. Jul 28 22:14:28 no freakin way Jul 28 22:14:31 Estel_: kernel-cssu2 is KP50 Jul 28 22:14:36 god Jul 28 22:14:44 i have a script that automounts the n900 and n9 filesystems when they're on my network Jul 28 22:14:48 are You sure that it is sane to keep same kernel separated? Jul 28 22:14:55 saw Your reply... Jul 28 22:15:03 evil|Jonne: sweet. Jul 28 22:15:04 but for self-containing repo, kernel-power could just sit there Jul 28 22:15:07 will try to push kernel-cssu3 in 1-2 hours Jul 28 22:15:09 evil|Jonne: good idea too. Jul 28 22:15:11 thanks Jul 28 22:15:23 Estel_: not a good idea Jul 28 22:15:29 as for kernel-power bugs and noise, noobs will still report kernel-power bugs as thumb bugs when using thumb Jul 28 22:15:33 screw plugging your phone in to move files to and from it :p Jul 28 22:15:52 but nautilus doesn't like it when your phone disconnects mid-transfer Jul 28 22:16:05 generally, this need to swap between kp and kernel-cssu after every release is kinda PITA. Not complaining or demanding, just my view on it Jul 28 22:16:14 And I really want to achieve both things - community kernel and -thumb repo Jul 28 22:16:20 I agree, however a USB cable is WAY faster than wifi transfer. Jul 28 22:16:26 freemangordon, thats ok, but You need to fork CSSU to achieve that Jul 28 22:16:30 which wouldn't be bad, anyway Jul 28 22:16:32 Estel_: why? Jul 28 22:16:37 freemangordon: not yet. Jul 28 22:16:39 You know why ;P Jul 28 22:16:46 ABI compatible etc Jul 28 22:16:53 no, I don;t, elaborate please Jul 28 22:17:02 it is ABI compatible Jul 28 22:17:13 I agree, one of CSSU maintainers doesn't Jul 28 22:17:28 Estel_: no he doesnt. Jul 28 22:17:38 vi_, seriously? Jul 28 22:17:47 last time I checked, doc was not CSSU maintainer Jul 28 22:18:00 as long as kp has thumb errata. Jul 28 22:18:08 ugh, at least he lieks to sound like one Jul 28 22:18:16 s/lieks/likes/ Jul 28 22:18:17 Estel_ meant: ugh, at least he likes to sound like one Jul 28 22:18:19 that's a different think Jul 28 22:18:23 *thing Jul 28 22:18:31 then you can just cherry pick whatever thumb compiled stuff you want from thumb repo. Jul 28 22:18:54 freemangordon, if You can convince merlin1991 and MohammadAG, then it's OK Jul 28 22:18:58 kindoff. Jul 28 22:18:59 Estel_: KP has its purpose to check the new stuff Jul 28 22:19:11 yea, inc ase of Community kernel it makes sense Jul 28 22:19:12 KCSSU does not aim that Jul 28 22:19:14 damn typos Jul 28 22:19:27 it should be rock stable Jul 28 22:19:39 ok, so You plan to make thumb cssu variant happy with kernel-feature-thumb-errata... Jul 28 22:19:45 yes, the casi is community kernel Jul 28 22:19:51 so installing it alongside kernel-power won't need messing up with control file? Jul 28 22:19:52 Estel_: no Jul 28 22:19:54 files* Jul 28 22:19:56 Estel_: thumb thing is FMGs baby project. He can do whatever the F* he wants with it. thumb!=cssu Jul 28 22:20:03 I don;t plan a fork Jul 28 22:20:20 -thumb has its place in cssu-thumb repo Jul 28 22:20:35 sure, but I'm lsot here. You plan to push kernel-cssu3 which is kp51r2 or r1 or whatever Jul 28 22:20:39 the KCSSU is a different animal and its place is in main CSSU Jul 28 22:21:00 but not until it is proven to not break stuff Jul 28 22:21:03 ]I understand it, that community-kernel will be stock + thumb Jul 28 22:21:10 yes? Jul 28 22:21:17 no Jul 28 22:21:31 so how it will be different from kernel-power? Jul 28 22:21:35 it will be KP rebranded, with some stuff stripped Jul 28 22:21:47 0_o stripped? why so? Jul 28 22:21:59 so if you have KP installed, there will be no need to install KCSSU Jul 28 22:22:14 ok, thats understandable. something like kp-ultra-ultra stable Jul 28 22:22:16 Estel_: uninstaller is an example Jul 28 22:22:26 Kp uninstaller that is Jul 28 22:22:54 so now, why instead of putting kernel-cssu3 in few hours, You won't alter cssu-thumb control files, to be satisfied with kernel-power Provides: thumb-errata? Jul 28 22:23:27 = it would be satisfied with *both* kp and kernel-cssu? Jul 28 22:23:44 AFAIK, kernel-power have Provides: thumb-errata-blabla specified Jul 28 22:23:49 and why do you think they are not altered in that way? Jul 28 22:23:58 :P Jul 28 22:24:18 erm, because You can't install pr-community-something from thumb repo, as it automagically pulls kernel-cssu even if kp51r1 is installed? Jul 28 22:24:23 or I'm wrong on that one? Jul 28 22:24:54 the next version won't pull cssu-kernel if you already have KP51r2 Jul 28 22:25:12 the point is that if you don;t have KP it will pull KCSSU Jul 28 22:25:20 and that's the thing I though would be best :) but when is this version sheduled? Jul 28 22:25:20 ( vi_: shhht, i im going to replace my windoze with ubuntu (some day) :P) now that's any replacing? Jul 28 22:25:36 DocScrutinizer, with LXDe instead of unity? sure Jul 28 22:25:55 Estel_: i will try to push that today Jul 28 22:26:06 nope, see xkcd for truth about buntkuh Jul 28 22:26:18 freemangordon, thanks, and no haste, I was just fixing my knowledge about how it looks now and how it is going to look soon :) Jul 28 22:26:21 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, ubuntu with LXDE != Win7 Jul 28 22:26:37 win7? better stick with XP if You must have windoze Jul 28 22:26:48 98 Jul 28 22:26:49 and i just cannot imagine a replacement of WinXP with Win7 Jul 28 22:26:52 3.11 Jul 28 22:26:57 http://xkcd.com/424/ Jul 28 22:26:58 btw, without unity, ubuntu and debian are quite almsot same thing Jul 28 22:27:06 freemangordon, same here ;) Jul 28 22:27:21 still using XP on windoze machine, and microshit can kiss my ass with vista, 7, 8, or anything Jul 28 22:27:24 Estel_: WinXP is not stable on my 4 cores :( Jul 28 22:27:29 why so? Jul 28 22:27:38 i get BSOD every now and then Jul 28 22:27:48 strange, reportedly it should work with 4 cores OK'ish Jul 28 22:27:53 because of my mainboards chipset, some shitty NVidia Jul 28 22:27:59 btw, bsod can originate from anything in windoze :P Jul 28 22:28:04 a-ha Jul 28 22:28:13 and NVidia drivers suck balls on muticore Jul 28 22:28:30 esp AGP minidriver Jul 28 22:28:31 well, on my notebook I use Nvidia, but considering all things Nvidia did, my next and all other graphic cards anmd chipsets will be ati Jul 28 22:28:42 ubuntu: turns out distro is just a windows vista with some custom themes Jul 28 22:28:54 ati is good cards but shitty drivers Jul 28 22:29:06 wut? bullshit, nvidia is most shitty thing to support in linux Jul 28 22:29:16 nahh, my GPU is ATI, CPU AMD. Imagine how stable is that on NVidia chipset :D Jul 28 22:29:22 :D Jul 28 22:29:23 DocScrutinizer05: and how do you feel about the way ubuntu deals with the root account? Jul 28 22:29:31 sudo this, sudo that. Jul 28 22:29:42 ROOT FOR EVERYONE!! Jul 28 22:29:43 sudo make me pizza Jul 28 22:29:46 sudo my sausage! Jul 28 22:29:49 vi_: sudo su Jul 28 22:29:53 ;P Jul 28 22:29:54 and you're in :P Jul 28 22:30:06 ~jrtools Jul 28 22:30:07 well, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jul 28 22:30:29 freemangordon: actually, sudo passwd root. Jul 28 22:30:37 gtg bb Jul 28 22:30:40 bb Jul 28 22:30:44 fix your friggin sudoers.d/* at least, when you feel like having to use buntkuh Jul 28 22:30:46 freemangordon, so i'll wait again with jumping into thumb with main device, I'm sure post in thumb thread will appear after update to cssu-thumb? Jul 28 22:30:49 nvidia do not support linux that much, but they do drivers and they work better than ati's. though lack of optimus. but same with ati, as it's mostly X problem Jul 28 22:31:01 see ya freemangordon Jul 28 22:31:24 bumblebee solves it Jul 28 22:31:25 as far as I'm concerned, main problem is nvidia being windoze biased Jul 28 22:31:42 windows is bad in any case doesn;t atter hw Jul 28 22:31:50 I have 8600GT and it's wonderfull card, still able to do many great things. But using later one sin linux is PITA, compared to ati Jul 28 22:32:01 but i think XP vs 7 is just stupid flameware and oldfags being oldfags Jul 28 22:32:01 ZogG_laptop: well actually XP after 10 years is ok Jul 28 22:32:16 while 7 wasn't ok in time of release and isn't now Jul 28 22:32:30 and it's more than 10 years, actually :D Jul 28 22:32:43 freemangordon: true, XP is good and way better than 7, but 7 is new, and you can't stand on one place Jul 28 22:32:55 it's like saying that 3310 is better and battery is longer Jul 28 22:32:58 of course I can. Jul 28 22:33:04 especially when someone want me to go backward Jul 28 22:33:07 ;) Jul 28 22:33:28 i actually barelly use win Jul 28 22:33:29 ZogG_laptop: and that is why I will move to XP like stuff (ubuntu with lxde) :P Jul 28 22:33:35 and last one i used on daily use was XP Jul 28 22:33:35 7 doesn't offer *anything* that matter for my use case, and XP backported (officially or not) everything that may be needed. Jul 28 22:33:46 but i have 7 for school and it's pretty nice and working ok Jul 28 22:33:50 but it's still windows Jul 28 22:34:06 ZogG_laptop: win7 working nice? Jul 28 22:34:07 see? told ya that You're typical windows user Jul 28 22:34:09 * Estel_ hides Jul 28 22:34:24 7 offers better driver support(though they do not always support old stuff) Jul 28 22:34:40 better as in? with more recent date in name?:P Jul 28 22:34:47 and they support newer hardware and things that XP is old for, does XP still gets updates? Jul 28 22:35:00 ZogG_laptop: it is such a bloatware i have no words in my dictionary to explain Jul 28 22:35:02 well, it does, at leats my update manager is sure Jul 28 22:35:08 ponder why big companies still use XP on all their office PC, folks! Jul 28 22:35:13 otherwise, it's gettting 8updates from sentient alien race Jul 28 22:35:20 DocScrutinizer, sure Jul 28 22:35:28 DocScrutinizer05: office is office, they want to save money right? Jul 28 22:35:32 most dedicated gamers with single brain cell working also use XP Jul 28 22:35:41 8 is something else Jul 28 22:35:47 2 GB or RAM for just the OS?!? Jul 28 22:35:48 7 is bloated as freemangordon said, + resource sucker Jul 28 22:35:49 as they decided to go other way at all Jul 28 22:36:04 yea, with 8 they decided to port windows phone to desktop :P Jul 28 22:36:11 ZogG_laptop: yeah , next is the best, we know M$ Jul 28 22:36:18 Estel_: +1 Jul 28 22:36:26 ZogG_laptop: do you really think a company that develops embedded software size of a mature linux distro is considering to save money on desktop PC licences? Jul 28 22:36:31 but 7 woorks perfect and really fast with my laptop and can last on powersaving for a long time Jul 28 22:36:53 judging like that, because facebook and browser works on it?:P Jul 28 22:36:54 DocScrutinizer05: i think they should use linux than =) Jul 28 22:36:57 with 4GB RAM?:P Jul 28 22:37:08 Estel_: mostly i use visual studio and office Jul 28 22:37:08 ZogG_laptop: works? you mean it boots in you open the explorer in less than a minute? Jul 28 22:37:35 ZogG_laptop: why should they? Jul 28 22:37:38 anyway, I am back to kernel-cssu3 Jul 28 22:37:43 Estel_: yes as i said it's new and good for new hw, so i use new hw, if i use old pc, i would stick to ms-dos. depends on need Jul 28 22:37:46 well, libreoffice>all, and some people also like those context-aware officue suites, can't recall name Jul 28 22:38:03 ZogG_laptop: what got linux to do with all that now? Jul 28 22:38:05 Estel_: maybe, but you tell people who don't have it and use doc Jul 28 22:38:06 freemangordon, sure, keeping my thumbs for thumb cssu :) Jul 28 22:38:23 no problem, my libreoffice documents are openable by microshit office too Jul 28 22:38:52 DocScrutinizer05: like i would like mac to develop for mac, linux for linux and win for win... but i can't argue on that Jul 28 22:39:03 this discussion reminds me last one about shitness of capacitive screens :) Jul 28 22:39:13 ZogG_laptop: I didn't say we're devoliping linux Jul 28 22:39:13 he said "size of linux distro" not "linux distro" Jul 28 22:39:21 ZogG_laptop: lrn2read! Jul 28 22:39:44 Estel_: i used to wrote to college and all sites that use only doc or support only ie, but want can i do else, i need it more than they, so i can't force them and they force me Jul 28 22:40:07 compatibility Jul 28 22:40:11 + lack of comformism. Jul 28 22:40:20 as said, my libreoffice documents works well for people with microshit Jul 28 22:40:31 and even without it, no one will even force me to pay license or pirate microshit Jul 28 22:40:31 DocScrutinizer05: kill me, for misunderstanding =) Jul 28 22:40:41 well, fanboism is fanboism. I'm going back to try fixing my .ogg and theora playback, #@$#@$ Jul 28 22:41:09 ZogG_laptop: are you asking me with my grumpy fart hat on, or with my chanop hat on? Jul 28 22:41:19 Estel_: that's why i prefer pdf as homework and CV and any info i get, send. but sometimes i get docs =\ Jul 28 22:41:49 DocScrutinizer: you can read as you want. both options are not pleasent Jul 28 22:42:14 i mean sure if i have something working good and all i need is ok i'll use xp Jul 28 22:42:15 you bet they aren't. so you shouldn't ask me to kill you Jul 28 22:42:32 but if i buy new computer that goes with 7 already i wouldn't reinstall xp there Jul 28 22:43:09 DocScrutinizer: just sometimes really tired of ways you suddenly moody. what can i say? Jul 28 22:44:04 it's like with time it gets worse ) i remember you always being nice guy few years ago, or let's say mostly Jul 28 22:44:06 well, there are things *I* get tired of Jul 28 22:44:35 DocScrutinizer: then why do you communicate if you don't want to talk with/about? Jul 28 22:44:45 read last 150 lines of scrollback to find an example Jul 28 22:45:27 it's our both waste of time, so i don't see how it's better just telling me that i got that sentence wrong? Jul 28 22:45:44 better than* Jul 28 22:47:17 ZogG_laptop: nevermind, wasn't meant to sound offensive or moody or anything Jul 28 22:47:59 maybe just my sense of humour got a tad more sarcastic and bitter over the years Jul 28 22:50:28 and yes, my boss never fails to express his hope for company eventually switching to newer windows version, or even linux Jul 28 22:50:53 DocScrutinizer: i know that feeling. for me it's always hard to understand you, as i mostly take it seriously. and you ignoring me only proves that i can't be sure if it is joke or not. but i don't take it offencive. just comfusing sometimes =P Jul 28 22:51:44 DocScrutinizer: there is one maemo dev who wants to witch company as he wants to use linux and not to work with windows Jul 28 22:51:44 sorry for that. I know I'm hard to get right most of the times Jul 28 22:52:01 just those switches are expensive for company and it's not only time Jul 28 22:52:27 it's not only money i mean Jul 28 22:52:28 but time Jul 28 22:52:34 i'm sleepy already Jul 28 22:52:47 there are also a lot of custom made tools that cease to work on major OS updates Jul 28 22:53:18 you need to check if everything works with new system, try it and update everything for it. you cant just tell someone who used to be your admin or dev that tomorrow he gonna mantain\develop other os Jul 28 22:53:36 yep Jul 28 22:53:43 so that's why i said expensive Jul 28 22:53:53 and not only buying license Jul 28 22:54:03 so we basically agree Jul 28 22:54:42 i worked at ministery of education as security. they just updated to new computers with i7 and win7, while they use it only for docs and emails. and there are school with lack of any computers Jul 28 22:54:52 btw old one were not donated to schools =) Jul 28 22:55:10 i like when people in areas like that update Jul 28 22:55:33 as it doesn't really matter, just few guys making decision getting profit and company like microsoft are. Jul 28 22:55:44 it's a pitty =) Jul 28 22:55:51 :nod: Jul 28 22:56:15 Could anyone tell me what is the latest version of kernel-power-flasher? Jul 28 22:56:32 Estel_: ^^^ ? Jul 28 22:56:52 DocScrutinizer05: btw i wonder what laptop u use? Jul 28 22:57:15 DocScrutinizer: as you are advanced in hardware area Jul 28 22:57:17 freemangordon, lemme check Jul 28 22:58:00 ZogG_laptop: (some farts making decisions and money, while everybody else suffering) see https://www.elster.de/ - in Germany _everybody_ is supposed to have a windows PC as you have to use that shit to declare your taxes and that elster shit doesn't work with anything but windows Jul 28 22:59:05 * Estel_ kick his net connection Jul 28 22:59:10 damn, it updates sloooowly Jul 28 22:59:17 and they may make you pay a fine for doing your taxes on paper Jul 28 22:59:38 DocScrutinizer, wine doesn't help? Jul 28 22:59:48 DocScrutinizer: and if you write to them they answer like "we are working on it" and they not really ) Jul 28 22:59:56 now THAT'S what I call brilliant lobbying of M$ drones Jul 28 23:00:31 DocScrutinizer, just set complaint to human righhts department in EU :) Jul 28 23:00:31 DocScrutinizer: and goverment and education branches? though i know colleges and unis forcing to use odf Jul 28 23:00:35 you will win some $$$ Jul 28 23:00:58 ZogG_laptop: (PC) Lenovo T500, Panasonic toughbook CF-29 Jul 28 23:01:00 Estel_: i don't think so as i think it will cost more time/money thing Jul 28 23:01:13 wrong, as always - fine's for such things are big, like 40k euros Jul 28 23:01:15 DocScrutinizer: i though you may say thinkpad =) Jul 28 23:01:19 not fines Jul 28 23:01:22 recompensates Jul 28 23:01:27 true Jul 28 23:01:30 fines for goverments are like millions ;) Jul 28 23:01:38 but as you see noone do it for reason Jul 28 23:01:46 Estel_: 1:2.6.28-10power51r1 ? Jul 28 23:01:47 it can last years as well Jul 28 23:01:57 none do it because sheep effect Jul 28 23:02:07 freemangordon, my apt just update repos, checking Jul 28 23:02:12 qwazix_900: what was that pull request? and why u have debian dir back there? Jul 28 23:02:56 qwazix_900: pong Jul 28 23:03:19 Estel_: you as EU citizen can do it. But it's not always sheep effect. it can cause you a lot of money and time to lose till you get it back. and time is your work and family. as well majority uses win Jul 28 23:03:57 ZogG_laptop: oops, something went wrong... that's why the pull request and I didnt push myself Jul 28 23:03:58 i think it's better to inform FOSS Foundation or something Jul 28 23:04:37 Estel_: 1:2.6.28-10power51r1 correct Jul 28 23:04:40 freemangordon, ^^^ Jul 28 23:04:47 sorry for being slow, my N900 is doing LZMA backup of Ed partition Jul 28 23:04:55 freemangordon: I just reflashed, tested camera-ui, installed cssu-thumb, installed fcamera Jul 28 23:04:56 so you know, it took a while to update repos and check it Jul 28 23:05:00 ok, thanks , new update in a couple of minutes Jul 28 23:05:15 thanks a lot, but I hope You haven't forget about multiboot users, freemangordon? Jul 28 23:05:19 Estel_: just have in mind it will remove stock kernel ;) Jul 28 23:05:19 we don't need flasher at al;l Jul 28 23:05:21 doesn't work and takes camera-ui with it Jul 28 23:05:27 qwazix_900: wrong? i passed thru commits but i don't see anycritical changes. you need to not mess with script and qtc_packaging libs and you are safe. but script should delete debian dit Jul 28 23:05:31 dir* Jul 28 23:05:35 Estel_: NFC about multiboot Jul 28 23:05:38 freemangordon, sure, stock kernel isn't in my personal vocabularity ;) Jul 28 23:05:48 freemangordon, multiboot users jsut need kernel-power-bootimg Jul 28 23:05:56 so pelase, don't put flasher in dependencies ;) Jul 28 23:06:03 unistalled fcamera, and camera-ui works again Jul 28 23:06:25 please* damn Jul 28 23:06:28 qwazix_900: which kernel? Jul 28 23:06:54 ZogG_laptop: okay, seems I should run the script Jul 28 23:07:13 qwazix_900: that is really strange, i did the test a couple of hours ago and all went fine Jul 28 23:07:14 freemangordon: the one which comes with ssu-thumb Jul 28 23:07:35 qwazix_900: where did you install fcamera from? Jul 28 23:07:44 as i used the one in extras Jul 28 23:08:14 qwazix_900: check if you have rm debian in the end. and check if it works and creates tar.gz and dsc files, if it is. than push changes. as well use .gitignore for .pro.user file and .o files and other temp files you don't want to sync Jul 28 23:08:19 didn't do anything else. Reflash combined, installed cssu-thumb, installed fcamera, rebooted Jul 28 23:08:46 ZogG_laptop: ok Jul 28 23:09:07 freemangordon, kernel-power-bootimg is thing multiboot users need to have KP, no flasher needed Jul 28 23:09:24 qwazix_900: fuuck, it is me who have extras-devel enabled :( Jul 28 23:09:33 qwazix_900: os merge and if you still have problems we can look in it. i just need to go to sleep. Jul 28 23:09:34 shit Jul 28 23:09:40 freemangordon: also deleted .fcamera folder ot be sure emmc didn't have anything to do Jul 28 23:09:50 qwazix_900: ^^^ Jul 28 23:10:03 freemangordon, fcamera from -devel is only one that matters Jul 28 23:10:13 extras one is outdated as hell'ish hell Jul 28 23:10:14 Estel_: why is that? Jul 28 23:10:22 ZogG_laptop: ok, goodnight Jul 28 23:10:24 because one from extras is like kp24 Jul 28 23:10:29 can refuse to work even on stock Jul 28 23:10:32 qwazix_900: night Jul 28 23:10:54 Estel_: and why the one in -devel is still in -devel? Jul 28 23:11:03 version from -devel should be promoted to extras ages ago Jul 28 23:11:09 freemangordon, Estel_, I got fcamera from testing Jul 28 23:11:12 because original maintainer doesn't give a fuck anymore Jul 28 23:11:30 if it is different version that in -devel, same applyu Jul 28 23:11:33 apply* Jul 28 23:12:14 qwazix: qwazix_900: sure, but could you check which version if drivers you have installed? Jul 28 23:12:24 AFAIK fcamera is not in extras at all Jul 28 23:12:28 ZogG, time required to fight for right law isn't any excuse for not fighting Jul 28 23:12:35 qwazix: 1.0.7-2 here Jul 28 23:12:44 qwazix_900: ^^^ Jul 28 23:12:59 I uninstalled it now, let me reinstall Jul 28 23:13:15 qwazix_900: try with extras-devel enabled Jul 28 23:13:46 kk, afk for 10min Jul 28 23:13:54 ok :) Jul 28 23:14:07 Estel_: easy to say, harder to do. we are fucked by govs and big companies everyday and you not always can do something Jul 28 23:14:33 in our country, there is stupid law that allow medical staff to deny doing legally awailable abortion, when health of mother is in danger. the result is, that many such women are bounced from one medic to another Jul 28 23:14:53 cause in theoryl, refusing medic must forward patient to other doctor, than doesn't refuse - in practice, they doesn't give a shit Jul 28 23:15:00 one of such woman sued goverment, and of course, won Jul 28 23:15:14 it's grey area Jul 28 23:15:29 sure, it required time, money, etc, but I'm sure she got more money than invested in lawsuit, and honestly, human rights departmens in eu doesn't require much money Jul 28 23:15:45 most of the times, fighting in local justice departments is more expensive Jul 28 23:16:22 forcing all tax payers to use programs written for windoze only, or having them to pay more, is forcing to use windows or to pirate it Jul 28 23:16:56 and goverment need to be spanked in balls every few days, or it goes quite arrogant, if no one care to fight a little. Jul 28 23:17:34 Estel_: the new update is out, not sure it will work though Jul 28 23:17:46 Estel_: now i'm jobless, btw old boss screwed me with new job i found and i can do nothing about that wich is an example and have time. but before i'm student and worked almost full time. i had no time for those things. but i actually wrote email once with complaining to customers rights service and they won it(no sue, just talked to them ) Jul 28 23:17:51 many bad practices are common, due to no one carrying to hit sticky hands with rusty forks Jul 28 23:17:54 Just checking in before going to bed. I've been fighting with scratchbox, while I've had time trying to update the cputransp devkit. I should hopefully have something tomorrow, I've been quite busy today! Jul 28 23:18:28 I know that it require much effort sometime Jul 28 23:18:36 but well, lifer without effort isn;t fun, yep? Jul 28 23:18:38 * zeq1 seems to have lost the ability to write in coherent sentences Jul 28 23:18:40 freemangordon, thanks Jul 28 23:18:44 zeq1: good night, sleep well Jul 28 23:18:46 have You installed it?:P Jul 28 23:18:58 Estel_: no, updating in HAM Jul 28 23:19:04 night all :) Jul 28 23:19:10 Estel_: depends on price, sometimes it's just about being right. Jul 28 23:19:10 sure, if it works initially for You, I'm all for testing Jul 28 23:19:37 esfraga: it will work if it manages to install :) Jul 28 23:19:43 oops Jul 28 23:19:44 sure, i'm definitelly not going to sue german goverment for forcing doc to pay taxes through windows, Doc is one to do :D Jul 28 23:19:47 Estel_: if it's losing job + kicked of school than i prefer to ignore it Jul 28 23:19:49 Estel_: ^^^ Jul 28 23:20:06 neva Jul 28 23:20:14 freemangordon, yea Jul 28 23:20:23 I need to wait until LZMA archive ends appearing, anyway Jul 28 23:20:29 I think it's about 80% now Jul 28 23:20:40 it's wonderfull, that I can make lzma archive of whole Ed partitionkk, and still have quite responsible device Jul 28 23:20:52 in fact I forget I'm doing it, only FAM slowness reminded me Jul 28 23:20:57 as FAM is never slow, normally:P Jul 28 23:21:09 ~fam Jul 28 23:21:09 thanks a lot for Your effort, freemangordon Jul 28 23:21:10 extra, extra, read all about it, fam is short for familiar Jul 28 23:21:35 i remmeber what is FAP manager =) Jul 28 23:21:43 i miss n900 sometimes =) Jul 28 23:22:12 it is FAM, or fapman Jul 28 23:22:27 i need to use usb fix when it's too late and you just use board contacts =) Jul 28 23:22:42 Estel_: right, fapman Jul 28 23:22:50 fap yourself ;) Jul 28 23:22:55 Estel_: if it's losing job + kicked of school than i prefer to ignore it Jul 28 23:22:57 hmm, HAM somehow managed to install it without error, lets see if the device will boot :D Jul 28 23:22:58 neva! Jul 28 23:23:10 you can always change schoold or screw it totally, be punk :) Jul 28 23:23:10 Estel_: neva is to neva ignore? Jul 28 23:23:20 lol Jul 28 23:23:25 Estel_: please use HAM this time for the upgrade, don;t use FAM Jul 28 23:23:30 i'm screwing it without other efforts Jul 28 23:23:32 suuuure. Haven't you seen that I'm eleghant punk soul? Jul 28 23:23:38 as lack of motivation and laziness Jul 28 23:23:45 i need to get a job but not really searching now Jul 28 23:23:51 well, booting, yay Jul 28 23:23:53 freemangordon, ok, do you expect problems with fapman re cssu-thumb? Jul 28 23:23:54 old boss is a bitch Jul 28 23:24:17 Estel_: this time, because of the kernel-cssu replacing kernel Jul 28 23:24:22 ok noght Jul 28 23:24:25 unless he is pope and You search for work in vatican, it should be so huge problem? Jul 28 23:24:38 well, well, "operating system successfuly updated" Jul 28 23:24:49 freemangordon, wait, you've said that after this update I can use kp51r1 with cssu-thumb, without replacing kernel? Jul 28 23:24:56 sounds nice Jul 28 23:25:12 Estel_: if you have KP it shouldn't install KCSSU Jul 28 23:25:20 freemangordon, yea Jul 28 23:25:28 but as you can imagine didn't test it Jul 28 23:25:33 I though you know already i'm notorious kp user Jul 28 23:25:34 sure Jul 28 23:25:36 be ny guest Jul 28 23:25:39 *by Jul 28 23:25:45 BTW, currently, which one is more recent as per features? kernel-cssu or kp51r1? Jul 28 23:25:58 bith are equal Jul 28 23:26:01 *both Jul 28 23:26:05 I'll hapilly test it, as soon as process of archiving Ed ends Jul 28 23:26:17 so kernel-cssu3 is kp51r1 Jul 28 23:26:21 this is madness :P Jul 28 23:26:43 ZogG, seriously, if it's not too personal, what he did to screw You in new job? Jul 28 23:26:47 Estel_: i found job, but i had contract wich says i can't work in comppany working with asterisk for 2 years. though it's illegal and job title was junior developer and not admin/tech support. but he i cant sue him, i can win only if he sues me. and he just called new boss and talked him out to take me, as he said it would make war. and as new boss preffer quite, i was with no job(old boss wanted me to stay but i hated to work there) Jul 28 23:27:01 wow, you're fast at writing Jul 28 23:27:02 ;) Jul 28 23:27:36 ZogG, of course You can sue him Jul 28 23:27:38 Estel_: i started before you asked ) Jul 28 23:27:45 for illegal contract Jul 28 23:27:47 I know Jul 28 23:27:50 was jsut joking Jul 28 23:27:51 Estel_: i went to lawer actually and talked to few Jul 28 23:27:58 they said only if it happens again Jul 28 23:28:06 there is no "again" in law Jul 28 23:28:12 problem is that i had no contract with new boss yet Jul 28 23:28:18 either it's illegal for the first one to, or legal at all Jul 28 23:28:19 we closed that i'll quit first Jul 28 23:28:35 You can sue new boss too, for working illegally ;) Jul 28 23:28:43 but, it;'s not related to new job at all Jul 28 23:28:50 You can sue 1st boss for illegal contract anyway Jul 28 23:28:56 no matter of any further job Jul 28 23:29:03 it's not case as i had no contract, so lawer said it's not enuf and doesn't worth to do anything. he said but it changes if it happens again Jul 28 23:29:24 also, next time, you should collect evidence, i.e. record conversation, when new boss told You that old boss contacted him etc Jul 28 23:29:36 strange lawyer Jul 28 23:29:46 how exactly was it about Your first job? Jul 28 23:29:51 you worked there in grey area? Jul 28 23:29:54 i can sue for personal attack (letters from lawer he wrote and calls and calling new boss) but it's not enuf, as he has company lawer and it's just not enuf Jul 28 23:29:58 the fuck, maemo.org is down :( Jul 28 23:30:11 ZogG, not true that it isn;'t enough Jul 28 23:30:22 if You have evidence that he contacted new boss, sent letters etc, it is enough Jul 28 23:30:30 and corporate lawyer doesn't have anything to do Jul 28 23:30:46 Estel_: it logically enuf, but we are not EU or USA. Jul 28 23:30:53 if he was so stupid to actually try to enforce illegal part of contract Jul 28 23:31:00 which country? Jul 28 23:31:04 aisrael Jul 28 23:31:06 israel Jul 28 23:31:07 fuck Jul 28 23:31:13 a lot do like that Jul 28 23:31:15 well, this changes many things Jul 28 23:31:17 and there few cases Jul 28 23:31:27 but it was when they got job. Jul 28 23:31:31 well, unless enough people will do, or even prepare a class lawsuit... Jul 28 23:31:50 I would try anywayh, jsut to be sure that I've tried every way Jul 28 23:32:02 after that, You may burn old boss car like good punk :) Jul 28 23:32:07 world is unfair and not always we can do something. but on other hand i did called lawyers and collected data and tried. Jul 28 23:32:13 seriously though, Israel is fucked up when it comes to executing law Jul 28 23:32:17 so I feel your pain Jul 28 23:32:36 it's wierd but he had enuf stupid cases and those we don't Jul 28 23:32:39 well, just find new job and screw that, and collect evidence, in case of troubles Jul 28 23:32:48 it's comman here that company fucks you Jul 28 23:32:59 only as long as people allow it ;) Jul 28 23:33:07 for example, it seems that i', going to sue PayPal soon Jul 28 23:33:12 and even when people sue it is so small amount that they just pay one or two from 20 and make more money Jul 28 23:33:15 maybe nto exactly sue, but make some fuss Jul 28 23:33:55 Estel_: tell me how it goes, as i'm the kind of person that always speak up and try to do what i think right, but it doesn't always go anywhere Jul 28 23:33:57 Well, as said, from what I've heard, Israel is terrible country when it comes to law and it's enforcement Jul 28 23:34:13 of course it doesn't Jul 28 23:34:25 Estel_: depends, it's just huge monopoly here and division of classes imho Jul 28 23:34:34 * Estel_ nods Jul 28 23:34:42 even if we have few ISP i think it's like they made contract with each other and devil Jul 28 23:35:04 but You know that changes doesn't necessary need to be instant, and it all depend on people? Jul 28 23:35:20 i.e. "patience is a virtue", You can't burn out too quickly due to some fails Jul 28 23:35:43 it's only few companies here and they made a standard of maximum 1 mbit upload but they have all over israel advs of high speed with 100mbit download. but it's stupid with such upload Jul 28 23:36:04 also, it requires open mind to, as many times initial opinions on "how world is made up" doesn't necessary math wider horizont vision Jul 28 23:36:34 Estel_: i don't burn out but as my prev boss(other one ) said: "sometimes it's better to be smart than right" or "i do not play war games i can't win" Jul 28 23:36:35 I mean that when you're sure about "right and wrong" things too much, it's easy to become blind radical :) Jul 28 23:37:01 Estel_: that is true, i try to look from side. but still we are human Jul 28 23:37:11 sure thing Jul 28 23:37:44 well, anyway, I seriously feel your pain with new job, as it's real problem and for sure very irritating thing Jul 28 23:38:24 yes and it's just me starting to work in IT so no exp and now without even shitty job it hard to get to any interview Jul 28 23:38:50 and by feel Your pain i don't mean just wanting to sound ellegant, I really udnerstand how many troubles lack of work may bring. even thus many times You're such a son of a... :P Jul 28 23:39:03 try own business? even small one? Jul 28 23:39:15 and new job supposed to be the best, with low salary first but bumps in future if i work hard, friendly area (i made interview at new boss house) and they know i'm not dev and willing to teach Jul 28 23:39:19 he screwed me big Jul 28 23:39:53 Well, I have one rule - never work for someone else, as most of tyhe times, You can do same or better things and earn whole sum, not "your part" of it when working for others ;) Jul 28 23:40:14 i'm poor student i live without parents as i moved to other country at 15. and israel is not easy on start own business thing. Jul 28 23:40:23 for sure it isn't Jul 28 23:40:29 never though about moving somewhere else? Jul 28 23:40:45 i'm ok to work for somebody if it's working with somebody if you part of company and not a slave Jul 28 23:40:52 but, as for own "business", it's rather about idea and willing to hard work, than money at start (most of the times) Jul 28 23:40:55 and even more, about courage to try Jul 28 23:41:01 Estel_: not really as i'm negative person and think world is shitty in general Jul 28 23:41:21 well, being negative doesn't help Jul 28 23:41:39 i had idea worth it, but then it turns out not being worth and i had not enuf resources. btw it was related to NFC pay system =) Jul 28 23:41:45 especially, that thinking so, no matter if You admit it or not, it ends up with "world is but I'm the one who is OK" Jul 28 23:41:57 WTF?!? KPS .15 is listed in packges web iface but .deb is missing from the repo. Jul 28 23:42:11 maemo-extras is FUBAR :( Jul 28 23:42:24 freemangordon, told You that some weeks ago Jul 28 23:42:27 and agfain, few mdays ago Jul 28 23:42:38 :) Jul 28 23:42:42 yeah Jul 28 23:42:53 kernel-power-settings .15 was there, and I have it installed in one device, but then, it got manually removed by X-Faqde Jul 28 23:42:56 Fade* Jul 28 23:42:57 see logs Jul 28 23:43:01 what? Jul 28 23:43:04 where Jul 28 23:43:05 ? Jul 28 23:43:05 "removed by Niels Breet" or stmh like that Jul 28 23:43:09 wait, i'll check sources Jul 28 23:43:23 aah,yes Jul 28 23:43:27 but why? Jul 28 23:43:33 Estel_: i don't say i'm ok. and i try to change things i can. but i can't force others. Jul 28 23:44:01 ZogG, I know, but if you're negative about world, it doesn't matter if you admit it or notr - most of the times it mean that, without realising it, you think you're "better" Jul 28 23:44:12 freemangordon, no idea, thatt why I've asked few days ago Jul 28 23:44:21 I though somet5hing was fubar and Pali asked through Council Jul 28 23:44:25 but now I doubt that Jul 28 23:44:36 Estel_: like i never throw trash at street but i can't force others Jul 28 23:44:40 kernel-power-settings is possibly only one package that lives only in testing and extras, without -devel package Jul 28 23:44:50 Estel_: no, the problem that we are part of it stupidity Jul 28 23:45:03 Estel_: what? why is that? Jul 28 23:45:10 but this way you're sub-consciously accusing others :) Jul 28 23:45:20 like all apple sue against samsung Jul 28 23:45:23 freemangordon, last time I checked, due to -devel kps .15 being removed... Jul 28 23:45:36 Estel_: do you have the .deb somewhere? Jul 28 23:45:36 it was living only in -testing and -extras as kps .14 Jul 28 23:45:52 no, just installed on my mother's device :( Jul 28 23:45:57 yeah, I saw that, I am wondering why. Jul 28 23:46:09 no freaking idea, ask the council for assistance ;) Jul 28 23:46:24 Estel_: in russian there is tax for movie company on any harddrive and media storage. as you can use it for pirating =) Jul 28 23:46:24 if it's installed, .deb isn't sitting anywhere, I suppose? Jul 28 23:46:38 ;) Jul 28 23:46:41 liek ou pay extra just co u have hd in laptop Jul 28 23:46:50 it should be in /var/lib/apt-cache ;) Jul 28 23:46:53 russia is different beast Jul 28 23:46:57 and you may use it to storage their movies =) Jul 28 23:47:07 freemangordon, would check it, but it's little to late to call mother and ask for turning N900 on Jul 28 23:47:10 Estel_: there are enuf in all countries =) Jul 28 23:47:19 anyway, i'll pull the repo and build it by myself Jul 28 23:47:20 (I have x11vnc access) Jul 28 23:47:42 Estel_: don;t do it, i'll find it somewhere else Jul 28 23:47:43 freemangordon, nice Jul 28 23:47:47 ok :) Jul 28 23:47:53 maybe try uploading to -devel, LOL Jul 28 23:48:05 and surely ask Council to contact X-Fade and ask wtf Jul 28 23:48:20 i'll ask Pali first Jul 28 23:48:36 sure, but I bet my left shyoe he doesn't have a clue about wtf Jul 28 23:48:45 he would do something about it those 3 weeks or so Jul 28 23:50:56 ok i had to go to sleep like few hours ago Jul 28 23:50:57 night Jul 28 23:51:24 freemangordon: fcamera from devel works fine Jul 28 23:51:40 yeah, i knew it :D Jul 28 23:52:00 bb ZogG Jul 28 23:52:24 should I try lowlight or it's all in the driver version? Jul 28 23:52:29 freemangordon, while pestering Council aboujt kps wtf, maybe suggest them to promote fcam drivers too? or at least add it to list of packages lacking maintainer? Jul 28 23:52:51 qwazix_900: NFC, never used fcamera Jul 28 23:52:52 ivgalvez was responsible for fixing repositoriers project, and he is sane guy Jul 28 23:53:00 qwazix, all in driver Jul 28 23:53:06 he is still on vacation AFAIK Jul 28 23:53:09 but be sure to have lowlight from devel too Jul 28 23:53:14 freemangordon, I see Jul 28 23:53:22 Estel_: that's what I thought Jul 28 23:53:36 qwazix_900: well, if you have time and will, try it, why not Jul 28 23:54:06 freemangordon, for some reasons I don't understand, fcam still makes RAW photos better than nicolai cam Jul 28 23:54:14 probably due to driver implementation Jul 28 23:54:19 Estel_: driver ;) Jul 28 23:54:23 of course it lacks many great things from nicolai's cam Jul 28 23:54:29 sure, but raw should be raw :P Jul 28 23:55:09 it's, msot of the times, about soft sharpness (hoever it sounds) - I understand that jpg conversion probably add some filter that try to make photo sharper and destroy details, but raw should be comparable Jul 28 23:55:22 [2012-07-16 22:02:01] Processing package kernel-power-settings 0.15. Uploader: pali, builder: builder2 Jul 28 23:55:23 [2012-07-16 22:02:04] REJECTED: The same or newer version (kernel-power-settings 0.15) is already in extras-devel Jul 28 23:55:45 well, maybe it was at this time Jul 28 23:55:47 :P Jul 28 23:55:53 got deleted later Jul 28 23:56:02 manually, not by system Jul 28 23:56:14 but it exists in web interface Jul 28 23:56:18 WTF jumped into X-Fade head to delete it manually? Jul 28 23:56:22 wooot? Jul 28 23:56:25 oh damn Jul 28 23:56:51 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/kernel-power-settings/0.15/ Jul 28 23:57:19 but even in web interface have event of package being removed Jul 28 23:57:30 it looks more like "history" Jul 28 23:57:47 yes, but you can't upload the same version again, one need to bump it Jul 28 23:57:59 http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-settings/ Jul 28 23:58:03 damn Jul 28 23:58:03 lowlight works fine. I keep getting impressed by that app, it makes the best low light photos on any phone I've yused, ever (don't know about 808) Jul 28 23:58:07 so let it be kps .16 Jul 28 23:58:13 will talk to Pali tomorrow Jul 28 23:58:14 and kick niels ass, if he really did it :P Jul 28 23:58:25 but I suspect some missunderstanding or even someone else using his credentials Jul 28 23:58:33 I think it was Pali to rewuest it, for some reason Jul 28 23:58:34 sure Jul 28 23:58:38 but I will ask him Jul 28 23:58:39 hm Jul 28 23:59:11 so, it's better to wait with installing thumb for new kps, or? Jul 28 23:59:14 wait, i'm talking BA Jul 28 23:59:17 BS even Jul 28 23:59:23 yep Jul 28 23:59:25 using kp51r1 I can use kps 14, I think Jul 28 23:59:37 which still provides thumb Jul 28 23:59:43 yes, ;) Jul 29 00:00:00 this dual kernel thing is a madness Jul 29 00:00:11 it's liker living with one woman mon-friday and another one in weekend Jul 29 00:00:46 nopt that I have personal experiences on that matter *cough* Jul 29 00:01:02 you know what is madness? Jul 29 00:01:15 sparta? Jul 29 00:01:22 being stinged by these wasps THREE NIGHTS A ROW :< Jul 29 00:01:22 sorry, couldn't stop myself Jul 29 00:01:31 mosquitos? Jul 29 00:03:05 BTW, freemangordon, you know that i' Jul 29 00:03:08 "common wasp" i believe Jul 29 00:03:15 I'm stubbron one and I always installed kernel through fapman?:P Jul 29 00:03:42 incl. flasher, I mean Jul 29 00:03:45 and CSSU Jul 29 00:03:54 Estel_: if you have KP51 already installed, then there ahould be no problem Jul 29 00:03:55 despite common warnings, it always works great Jul 29 00:04:00 yea Jul 29 00:04:15 but even with need of flashing kernel-cssu3 (not in my case) why fapman should have problems? Jul 29 00:04:22 I just overlooked that you have it already Jul 29 00:04:26 it's damn apt-get and apt-cache frontend Jul 29 00:04:39 Estel_: NFC, but apt-get didn't manage to do it Jul 29 00:04:44 0_o Jul 29 00:04:51 i.e. not mosquitos Jul 29 00:04:51 mosquitos are fine, they don't hurt Jul 29 00:04:56 while HAM worked Jul 29 00:05:03 0_o 2 Jul 29 00:05:10 any errors? Jul 29 00:05:10 they're just annoying Jul 29 00:05:49 wasps, lol? why they sting you during night? Jul 29 00:05:52 they should sleep Jul 29 00:05:56 doesn't see during night Jul 29 00:05:58 indeed :( Jul 29 00:06:18 maybe light in house atracted them? Jul 29 00:06:25 possible Jul 29 00:06:44 mosquiteira (net on window anti-mosquitos) should prevent wasps too Jul 29 00:06:51 are they stinging You during sleep? Jul 29 00:06:52 Estel_, freemangordon: I always pinned apt to prefer pps from testing, so I doubt I ever installed fcam from devel unless testing one explicitly says it can't work with stock kernel, and I didn't have any problems with KP46-50 Jul 29 00:07:19 qwazix, why so? manyprograms in testing are left with serious problems Jul 29 00:07:22 Estel_: one time, the other times I hadn't begun sleeping yet (but in bed) Jul 29 00:07:41 horror, you could as good swallow them, and get stinged in throat Jul 29 00:08:05 sounds fun Jul 29 00:08:10 no idea WTF with those night swap wasps, but I would install mosquitieras on windows asap Jul 29 00:08:11 and deadly Jul 29 00:08:11 seriously Jul 29 00:08:17 it's real threat Jul 29 00:08:28 Well, I don't live here usually Jul 29 00:08:35 or i would have done that way ago Jul 29 00:08:40 without anyone nearby knowing WTF and giving You ice block to swallow immediately (and calling hospital) it';s very deadly Jul 29 00:09:35 during sleep, natural action when some insect is walking near ones mouth is to swallow it (seriously) Jul 29 00:10:04 wasn't a big problem, as wasp and bees slep during nights, so stings in throat were most of the times result of wasp jumping into glass of juice during day Jul 29 00:10:16 and someone drinking them with it Jul 29 00:10:16 at least I don't have to deal with them when I'm home... just here Jul 29 00:10:41 good mosquito repellent (one that you put into mains) should repel wasps too Jul 29 00:10:45 how do you know it's wasp Jul 29 00:10:53 take care, and in case of troubles, bon apetit Jul 29 00:11:44 I have an electric mosquito repelling device too, that uses exchangeable pads. It kills mosquitos and flies (flies die slowly), wasps don't die but they atleast stay away Jul 29 00:11:50 Estel_: just so I can vote apps. I am sure apps are in testing except if I explicitly installed from devel Jul 29 00:11:59 ShadowJK: because I know how they feel Jul 29 00:12:34 or they don't exist in testing at all so I can't vote anyway Jul 29 00:12:39 I've seen people have reactors to mosquitos that look similar to when I got stung by a wasp Jul 29 00:12:46 reactions* Jul 29 00:13:01 ShadowJK, but wasps leaves sting Jul 29 00:13:11 I thought htat was bumblebees Jul 29 00:13:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespula_vulgaris Jul 29 00:13:38 I thought about this Jul 29 00:13:49 aka "common wasp" Jul 29 00:14:21 wait WUT? kp-settings got removed from repo? \o/ maybe x-fade finally concluded OC in fact *is* deliberate damage of device? Jul 29 00:14:23 bumblebee - erm? Jul 29 00:14:25 https://www.google.pl/search?hl=pl&safe=off&q=bumblebee&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=R4AUUJ6lDc3Osgbv44G4AQ&biw=1540&bih=757&sei=UYAUULa6LY3EswaB_oHgBw Jul 29 00:15:15 don't think so, DocScrutinizer, this view on it seems to be defeated by common practice through years ;) Jul 29 00:15:43 manye people have device overclocked for 2-3 years now, without slightest ill sympthoms Jul 29 00:16:10 Is there a shortcut to force fullscreen on maemo? Jul 29 00:16:22 On any app? Jul 29 00:17:46 on (my) xchat there's ctrl-enter Jul 29 00:18:46 (manye people...) *some* people though have evidently fried their device by OC - with as much evidence of relation as you possibly get Jul 29 00:20:14 DocScrutinizer: nice, but it would be nice to have a universal one like on Diablo, maybe sending that specific keycode still works Jul 29 00:21:01 hmm, maybe Jul 29 00:22:21 I'll try to find something that reads keycodes tomorrow. Bye now, I'm off to sleep Jul 29 00:27:10 DocScrutinizer, I have yet to see ONE report of device fried by oc, that isn't msot likelyu related to other things Jul 29 00:27:34 qwazix, sure, there is Jul 29 00:27:36 wait a second Jul 29 00:28:08 WTF? /lib/modules/current points to /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1 Jul 29 00:28:36 qwazix, m:0x4 + c:65 Jul 29 00:28:44 fullscreen in any fremantle program Jul 29 00:28:49 freemangordon, huh? Jul 29 00:29:00 yes, NFC why Jul 29 00:29:18 FIQ, wikipedia says that common wasp isn't attracted by light, only hornets are. |I don't know, maybe Your wasps mutated Jul 29 00:29:31 in kernel-cssu3? Jul 29 00:29:34 yes Jul 29 00:40:48 Estel_: hmm, seems like kernel-power uninstaller restored that to stock Jul 29 00:41:12 and kernel-cssu3 haven't restored it back to proper one? Jul 29 00:41:33 i uninstall KP after installing KCSSU Jul 29 00:41:46 so it didn't have a chance Jul 29 00:41:55 on my devel device it is OK Jul 29 00:42:16 hm Jul 29 00:42:24 can I use my n900 to do a 24/7 stream of the camera? Jul 29 00:46:37 sure, why not? Jul 29 00:54:06 ( DocScrutinizer, I have yet to see ONE report ...) see my signature at tmo Jul 29 00:54:30 seen that, and this report is quite doubtful Jul 29 00:54:52 Estel_: the true problem is "most likely related to other things" is usually a very biased PoV Jul 29 00:55:07 it could as good originate from any other malfunction. I don't need "direct proof" as it's impossible, but this one is as good as any other cause Jul 29 00:55:29 I look at this without bias, and from my PoV, most "claims" about overclocking damage are result of bias Jul 29 00:55:36 DocScrutinizer05: The same for "for sure it is because of OC" Jul 29 00:55:43 most of the times, when somethings malfunction, first thoughts of some people is "overclocking?" Jul 29 00:56:17 you're arguing like German Work injury insurance: "please deliver EVIDENCE that your lung cancer been caused by asbestos" Jul 29 00:56:30 I'm just investigating every possible claim of damage by Oc out of curiosity, and I don't like "absolute proofs", but honestly, none claim I've seen had even slightly higher probability of being cause by OC, that from any other malfunction Jul 29 00:56:51 DocScrutinizer, hey, I'm not the one that request evidence of compliance by running next kernelk on stock modules :P Jul 29 00:56:57 I'm really trying to be objective here Jul 29 00:57:05 it's not about definite evidence, it's about probability Jul 29 00:57:20 in my book, probability of those few claims of OC damage to be really caused by Oc is quite low Jul 29 00:57:29 aaah yes, you're so objective you even mix topics just for polemic purpose Jul 29 00:58:06 I'm just not allowing You to accuse me of being "hard-proofs-only" biased :P Jul 29 00:58:44 cmon, does this: Jul 29 00:58:45 This morning, after charging overnight, my N900 decided to reboot itself.. All went downhill from here - insane stability issues - reboots,freezes etc etc... At some point it even stopped responding at all - it could load up to Nokia screen and then reboot into a endless reboot-cycle. I was really hoping this to be a software issue so I reflashed the device with PR 1.3, but sadly the problems persist... Phone keeps rebooting randomly either whi Jul 29 00:58:45 le loading up, being on standby on desktop or while loading something. The saddest part of all is that warranty expired _4_ days ago Jul 29 00:58:45 Phone was running on 950mhz ideal with swappolube on proposed settings. Jul 29 00:58:47 At the moment I am trying to get a lucky stability window and copy everything from EMMC so I can do a complete reflash, but I really doubt that will work. Jul 29 00:58:49 Any suggestions on how to fix this, or at least what MIGHT have caused this would be greatly appreciated. Jul 29 00:58:51 sorry Jul 29 00:58:54 damn paste Jul 29 00:59:01 I meant: Jul 29 00:59:03 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=926481&postcount=1 Jul 29 00:59:12 ...really deserves being put into signature as proof for Oc damage? Jul 29 00:59:20 This guy is not only guessworking, but probably, doing it wrong Jul 29 00:59:37 one day his N900 works like a charm, and next day, some hardware malkfunction makes it collapse to 0 within few hours? C'mon Jul 29 00:59:45 electromigration works a little differently, AFAIK Jul 29 00:59:58 not to mention that he was using idiotic 950 frequency, but that's not the point Jul 29 01:00:31 well, would that story of the dude who OCed his device on handbrake transcoding a video and made his battery go boom by overtemperature in direct consequence, would that maybe convince you? I guess not even that is any more likely related to OC than to any other cause for you Jul 29 01:00:37 even more, it looks like eMMC failing Jul 29 01:00:46 I've seen things like that, for people using swap on eMMC Jul 29 01:01:03 /dev/mmcblk0* becomes visible and not, appearing and disappearing when it wants Jul 29 01:01:19 You may imagine such results by sudden disappearing of opt and swap ;) Jul 29 01:01:43 DocScrutinizer, exploding battery as a result of OC? c'mon... Jul 29 01:01:50 I'm sure you know how much hoax it is Jul 29 01:02:10 if battery exploded, it was huge malfunction in battery (and it's safety pcb) Jul 29 01:02:34 it doesn't have a rats shit to do with OC, seriously. Not that I advocate Oc'ing to insane numbers jsut to do some single task Jul 29 01:02:43 flames arriving in 3... 2... 1... Jul 29 01:02:43 I think it's reasonable that it was due to OC Jul 29 01:02:53 battery?:P Jul 29 01:03:02 this one really made me LOL Jul 29 01:03:14 that's your problem Jul 29 01:03:19 even the claim from joerg's signature is more proper than claiming OC caused battery explosion Jul 29 01:03:27 you're so biased you can't even detect the bias Jul 29 01:03:32 DocScrutinizer, during heavy usage, my battery inside N900 delivers more than 1A of current Jul 29 01:03:40 no, we're talking about technical arguments Jul 29 01:03:54 You try to tell me thatr OC stress battery more than any other kind of heavy usage? really? Jul 29 01:04:08 just try 3G Jul 29 01:04:10 overtemperature in battery can be caused only by bad battery, or battery being treaten VERY bad Jul 29 01:04:23 I told you battery malfunction happended due to overtemperature of whole device caused by OC Jul 29 01:04:30 I can now Oc to fuckin insane idiotic 1150 and my battery wil ldeliver less current, than during heavy activity onj stock Jul 29 01:04:41 and even literally frying CPU wouldn't heat battery to temperature of explosioin Jul 29 01:04:44 explosion* Jul 29 01:04:55 * ShadowJK thought temperature was unrelated to oc Jul 29 01:05:00 DocScrutinizer51: how that could happen having in mind BME does an emergency shoutdown above certain temp? Jul 29 01:05:03 this dude just got bad battery, and durring transcodinmg video - no matter if Oc or not - heavy current sucked up made it BOOm Jul 29 01:05:09 ShadowJK, because it is Jul 29 01:05:37 oh, and also Jul 29 01:05:38 That it's mostly accelerating the decay of the CPU Jul 29 01:05:45 I'm trying to be gentle and polite, but battery exploding due to Oc is so idiotic, that I'm stunned DocScrutinizer brings it as argument, because he is, in fact, very experienced in topic of batteries (and OC phenomenas, like electro-migration, too) Jul 29 01:05:58 my battery becomes really hot when using mobilehotspot (600mhz clockspeed) Jul 29 01:06:04 Estel_: mhm, and all this is your absolutely confirmed and checked result of scientific investigation of the issue? Jul 29 01:06:07 fine! Jul 29 01:06:11 DocScrutinizer, I may be wrong, but I actually don't belive that You belive battery exploding due to OC Jul 29 01:06:33 DocScrutinizer, don't play with me like that, You neither have any scientific data, but from what You know about batteries and OC Jul 29 01:06:39 hm Jul 29 01:06:41 You know that it can't make battery BOOM as much as I know Jul 29 01:07:00 FIQ|n900: it is because there is no WiFi power management in adhoc mode Jul 29 01:07:01 FIQ|n900: >70°C is really dangerous Jul 29 01:07:12 thewre are two things that Oc may do to battery - little more current draw... Jul 29 01:07:18 oh, that isn't reached Jul 29 01:07:32 which shouldn't make battery BOOM, and batteries that do BOOm, would do it also by other means of current draw, like ad-hox or 3G... Jul 29 01:07:35 it's hot, not *that* hot i believe Jul 29 01:07:37 and tem,perature Jul 29 01:07:57 here also this argument fails to deliver, as even insane Oc can't heat freaking battery cell to high temperature Jul 29 01:08:06 DocScrutinizer05: are you sure BL5J could explode at all? I think there is a valve on it. Jul 29 01:08:08 now, what may heat battery? broken battery, that have high internal resistance Jul 29 01:08:11 and other flaws Jul 29 01:08:22 = it died due to high current during transcoding, be it Oc or not Jul 29 01:08:37 freemangordon, normally it couldn't, I tried very hard to make it boom, really Jul 29 01:08:41 but flawed battery could Jul 29 01:08:42 DocScrutinizer05: I might see wrong (I can't see too well) but the top of my batteries (the top as in where the nokia logo is), the shell seems minor deformed, do I see things or can that actually happen? Jul 29 01:09:06 if it is deformed to outer side, aka becoming "ticker", it mayh be true Jul 29 01:09:30 Estel_: it's annoying to discuss with you, since when something doesn't please you, you start to use ever mor eweird assumptions as facts and calling others silly when they explain to you the seventh time that you are on a completely wrong path with your logic Jul 29 01:09:39 now, DocScrutinizer, have I forget about some possiuble cause of battery exploding? Other than current draw and temperature (BTYW, the latter coming from the first) Jul 29 01:09:47 freemangordon, LiPo batteries don't explode, the pouch is soft enough that it punctures before that. But what happens is called "venting with flame", which to most people isn't that different from "explode" :-) Jul 29 01:09:49 well, i'm asking you politely Jul 29 01:10:07 ShadowJK, we have LiIon, not LiPo? Jul 29 01:10:17 :nod: Jul 29 01:10:18 Estel_, it's not round, it's not made out of metal, it's LiPo Jul 29 01:10:28 but it is made of metal! Jul 29 01:10:32 no Jul 29 01:10:35 yes, really Jul 29 01:10:44 Estel_: source? Jul 29 01:10:47 BL-5J is LiIon, not LiPo Jul 29 01:10:53 Well the pouch is probably slightly metallic Jul 29 01:10:55 FIQ|n900, go and disassemble one :P Jul 29 01:11:00 nty Jul 29 01:11:04 ShadowJK, really, I also though for ages that it is LiPo Jul 29 01:11:10 actually, few months ago someone englightened me Jul 29 01:11:13 But it's constructed as a LiPo surrounded by a plastic shell Jul 29 01:11:15 and indeed, it is LiIon, not LiPo Jul 29 01:11:24 ShadowJK, negative, it is metallic Jul 29 01:11:34 ok Jul 29 01:11:34 shell that is + and small area that is - Jul 29 01:11:43 about the minor deformation of the shell Jul 29 01:11:48 is this a bad thing? Jul 29 01:11:48 directly under cell wall, there is Li Jul 29 01:11:51 nope Jul 29 01:11:54 in fact, it's better Jul 29 01:11:55 FIQ|n900: how exactly deformed? Jul 29 01:12:01 ah, so I shouldn't care? Jul 29 01:12:05 Estel_, I don't know of anyone who can make rectangular non-LiPo batteries Jul 29 01:12:05 DocScrutinizer05: well... Jul 29 01:12:07 let me seee Jul 29 01:12:08 -e Jul 29 01:12:42 ShadowJK, now I'm confused, but this battery really have HARD metal wall Jul 29 01:12:47 and nothinb under it Jul 29 01:12:50 no plastic, etc Jul 29 01:12:55 DocScrutinizer05: the top (at the logo) part of the shell is a bit thicker than everything else Jul 29 01:13:10 only barely visible, but yeah Jul 29 01:13:14 Estel_, well the major difference is in whether the shell is exerting pressure onto the contents of the battery or not Jul 29 01:13:24 DocScrutinizer, not trying to haste, but I've asked You about any other possible cause of battery going BOOM other than current draw and temperature (the latter may result from the first, BTW) Jul 29 01:13:32 With LiPo construction the internals don't need to be pressurized Jul 29 01:13:45 ShadowJK, N900's battery surely do pressure Jul 29 01:13:50 FIQ|n900: watch it. If it grows you should dispose your battery Jul 29 01:13:59 DocScrutinizer05: mkay Jul 29 01:14:05 FIQ|n900, exactly. growing means that gas is accumulating inside Jul 29 01:14:10 ty for enlightement Jul 29 01:14:13 ShadowJK: every source over inet says it is Li-Ion Jul 29 01:14:47 initially, Ik though that it was wrong, as LiPo is a kind of Li-Ion, but after "collecting evidence" it seems it is LiIon indeed Jul 29 01:14:54 freemangordon, LiPo is also Li-Ion :P Jul 29 01:15:07 ShadowJK, but You know what he mean :P Jul 29 01:15:43 Regular Li-Ion is heavier for smaller formfactors because it needs to have a rigid case that exerts mechanical pressure onto the inside of the battery Jul 29 01:16:32 DocScrutinizer, 3th attempt - do You think about any other cause of battery exploding that overcurrent or overtemeprature? Or you insist on telling us that overclocking is causing 2A current draw, or generating enough energy to heat big LiIon cell to explosion? Jul 29 01:16:46 Estel_: you talked yourself into a frency and assumed many incorrect and/or unrelated things, and now you're asking me to answer a question that you will use to prove I'm telling bullshit (with the one sentence I posted that not even been a statement but rather a hearsay witha question), no matter how I answer your question. I'm not going into same trap on arguing with you for the dozen+1th time Jul 29 01:17:18 hehe Jul 29 01:17:24 night guys Jul 29 01:17:27 night ;) Jul 29 01:17:53 DocScrutinizer, you're making things up. Indeed, I don't belive that it caused battery to explode, but I'm willing to discuss it, as You may know something about battery or Oc, that I don't Jul 29 01:18:05 now, when asked for logical analysis, You tell me that You won't cause I'm bad ;) Jul 29 01:18:28 DocScrutinizer05: what will happen if I ignore it (i.e. if I don't notice change while it indeed does change)? Jul 29 01:18:37 initially, I really though that You don't belive what You're saying (abot battery exploding due to OC), but you insist that You do, so I immediatelly swapped to serious analysis Jul 29 01:18:44 see? you don't need my answer to accuse me of 'making up things'. So please don't pester me and just go on with your crusade, while I yawn Jul 29 01:18:58 no, I say that ?you're making things up about me :) Jul 29 01:19:06 anjd why You won't do logical analysis Jul 29 01:19:24 I would *really* like to know why someone as experienced with batteries as You may belive this explosion due to OC - no irony here Jul 29 01:19:27 I'm honestly curious Jul 29 01:19:57 Mostly I've only seen "LiPo" used in marketing in cellphone industry because at one time peopel thought LiPo was better than classic Li-Ion, and also at one time a fully polymer battery was expected to be superior, but that technology turned out to suck and never materialized, so in the end what's left is the way the batteries are constructed and held together, while the chemistry remains identical Jul 29 01:19:58 if You don't want to talk about it, it's fine Jul 29 01:20:26 if you're really so numb to not have noticed: I stated 3 times already that the battery gone malfunction due to general overtemp of whole device Jul 29 01:20:51 ...but, in such case, don't get anrgy when people will still insist that battery exploding due to Oc is bullshit. We're grown up, and things without arguments are not going to be took into account Jul 29 01:20:54 OK, overtemp Jul 29 01:21:09 so we're at point 2 - do you think that Oc can cause such type of overtemp? Jul 29 01:21:19 if not, what else can cause it? is it related to Oc, or not? Jul 29 01:21:25 I'm really doing unbiased logical analysis Jul 29 01:21:39 I already told you I won't fall for your trolling trap again Jul 29 01:21:43 for example, in my book, the thing that can heat up most in N900 i9s battery cell itself, due to internal resistance. But I may be wrong Jul 29 01:22:11 I'm not asking anymore "ho high2 when you order me to jump Jul 29 01:22:13 well, Your approach is rather about "I won't talk about it, cause I can't prove my thesis", but if it's what you feel fancy, it's ok. Jul 29 01:22:50 ok I assume nothing too particular will happen as I was ignoreg so I guess I'll go and sleep Jul 29 01:23:01 I agree with overtemperature argument, but from ym experience, even running insanely idiotic high speeds doesn't create any ammount of heat, that could change temperature of battery cell Jul 29 01:23:03 of such size Jul 29 01:23:04 FIQ|n900: sorry Jul 29 01:23:07 s/reg/red/ Jul 29 01:23:07 FIQ|n900 meant: ok I assume nothing too particular will happen as I was ignored so I guess I'll go and sleep Jul 29 01:23:22 FIQ|n900: i'd not be too concerned Jul 29 01:23:30 IMO, the thing that creates msot heat is battery itself, during heavy current draw and high internal resistance Jul 29 01:23:35 DocScrutinizer05: ty for the answer Jul 29 01:23:46 np Jul 29 01:23:48 but i'll go to sleep anyway :p Jul 29 01:23:55 n8 Jul 29 01:23:57 DocScrutinizer, if You know toher things that I don't, that could create such heat, tell us. If not, just stfu and don't accuse me of trolling or something like that - we're trying to have civilized, merit discussion Jul 29 01:24:08 n8, FIQ|n900 Jul 29 01:24:14 night everyone and Estel_ Jul 29 01:32:40 general advice: somebody stating "I know A, and B, do you know of any C that applies as well?" doesn't necessarily tell correct facts about A and B. And nobody else arguing with him about A and B might have several causes, one of them being mere boredom and too amny As and Bs to correct to even ponder starting at that daunting task. Anyway application of simple primary school physics laws will teach you for example that most heat will Jul 29 01:32:41 be generated where the product from formula P=I*U=I^2*R is highest. When I is same for two systems and one has some 3.5V across it while the other has a internal resistance of maybe 0.2Ohm (both systems at a I of 1...3A), you can easily tell which of both systems is the one that creates most heat Jul 29 01:35:31 DocScrutinizer, sure, that is why I've asked for Your opinion on A and B first. Jul 29 01:35:57 while general rule about heat indeed apply, from my short calculations, still the cell is thing generating most energy (heat) Jul 29 01:36:19 and SoC, by any means, can;t create enough energy to heat cell considerably, not to mention heating it to explosion Jul 29 01:37:06 basically, my argument about that, was about *current* pulled from malfunctioning battery resulted in much heat and BOOM. But, even more current could be easily achievable by other means than oc, namely wifi ad-hoc, 3G, or any other Jul 29 01:37:10 f;ashlight :P Jul 29 01:37:31 if You have points that I've forget about, I'm all for reading about it - no irony intended in any part Jul 29 01:38:03 BTw, I even provided example of ym device using more than 1A of current, when on ad-hoc wifi, GPs, and some other things. Jul 29 01:39:27 * ShadowJK 's personal record is around 1.2A Jul 29 01:42:49 exactly Jul 29 01:43:04 I'm absolutely sure that it's much more dangerous for malfunctioning battery, than any current generated by OC Jul 29 01:53:27 I'm absolutely sure I don't feel like discussing with people about topics they state they are absolutely sure about Jul 29 01:54:31 esp whin - as icing on the cake - the things they state they are sure about are largely unrelated to the originally discussed topic Jul 29 01:54:45 s/whin/when/. Jul 29 01:57:02 You're avoiding discussion again - well, fine. Jul 29 01:57:40 Considering this, i'll keep my opinion that You don't belive overclocking as cause for battery explosion Yourself. And You call me biased? Jul 29 01:58:03 from "other barrel of vine", anyone here remember command to nuke tracker database and force re-generating it? Jul 29 01:59:14 tracker-proecesses -r Jul 29 01:59:16 iirc Jul 29 02:00:12 thanks a lot Jul 29 02:03:28 ShadowJK, strange, my 3Ah battery is empty (3.2), and I've stopped BME, yet it still faisl to charge with 1250 Jul 29 02:04:03 (charges with ~950, assuming 400 idle device power draw :D) Jul 29 02:04:13 (while it is now very small one, in reality) Jul 29 02:04:56 on other things,m i've noticed, that with BME stopped, I can connected device to Pc and get into mass storage mode without problems. I wonder, if then, using modified version of charge21.sh - that never charges with more than 500 mA - would work OK? Jul 29 02:05:17 file_storage modules already did negotiation with USB host, so 500 mA should be available, yep? Jul 29 02:05:32 what's rate with screen off? Jul 29 02:05:42 990 Jul 29 02:05:48 CH is 1250 Jul 29 02:05:51 500 etc isn't really enforced by hosts Jul 29 02:05:58 estimated system use is bullshit -260 Jul 29 02:06:07 kp or pr1.3 kernel? Jul 29 02:06:14 kp50 Jul 29 02:06:22 weird :) Jul 29 02:06:31 idle power draw is, as said, normally about ~8mA Jul 29 02:06:33 yep Jul 29 02:06:41 i though it was BME fail, but now I do it without BME Jul 29 02:06:49 and rate is same, real one around ~1000 Jul 29 02:06:51 mA Jul 29 02:07:01 Ps is capable of more for sure Jul 29 02:07:08 same for cable and connection, USB port is in top state Jul 29 02:08:14 I'll check if RATE reported by charge21.sh is same as by bq27200.sh Jul 29 02:08:24 i2cset -y -m 0xFF 2 0x6b 0x04 0x70 Jul 29 02:08:36 got that? first screen of script Jul 29 02:08:36 as for 500 mA, sure it isn't, but when device will try to draw less than 500 mA from Pc usb port, it shouldn't complain Jul 29 02:08:39 the *only* proper way to evaluate system power is: kill charge.sh; sleep 10; a=bq27200-get-capacity; sleep 60; b=bq27200-get-capacity; echo "average system power consumption during last 60s: $(( (b - a) * 60 )) Jul 29 02:08:41 sure Jul 29 02:08:45 even 0x71 Jul 29 02:08:59 as I('ve decided to take 100 mA as end charging threshold Jul 29 02:09:21 Well yeah, but at empty battery and 1250 configured rate he should see more than 900 :P Jul 29 02:09:40 DocScrutinizer, why, our chip got very bdecent real-time current monitor, that can be sued for measuring battery capacities too Jul 29 02:09:48 ShadowJK, exactly Jul 29 02:10:16 well, at least without bme, RATe is same as reported by bq27200.sh and charge21.sh Jul 29 02:10:27 sued :P used even Jul 29 02:10:58 ShadowJK, 'stop bme' is enough to stop it good way, yep? Jul 29 02:11:06 yes Jul 29 02:11:09 as a root, of course Jul 29 02:11:14 then I have no freakin idea Jul 29 02:11:24 stop it before starting charge script, of course Jul 29 02:11:35 * DocScrutinizer05 is trying to practice Estel_ style a bit... Jul 29 02:11:36 poof course Jul 29 02:11:51 DocScrutinizer, you're going to exchange letters now?:) Jul 29 02:12:01 but, but, cows *do* eat bq27200 chips! Jul 29 02:12:19 sure, if you serve them chips Jul 29 02:12:24 :) Jul 29 02:12:39 especially with molasses on top Jul 29 02:12:47 DocScrutinizer, no need to be bitter about our battery-exploding-due-to-Oc discussion :P Jul 29 02:13:03 You must admit that in spite of such nonsense presented, I was very polite :) Jul 29 02:13:17 would be interesting to run your battery through SpeedEvil's ohm script Jul 29 02:13:20 My cow preffer onion flavour chips Jul 29 02:13:34 ShadowJK, sure, but I don't remember where it is and how to use it? Jul 29 02:14:00 but on the other hand, a 3Ah battery should have awesomely low internal resistance Jul 29 02:14:14 ah, also - few users requested that - you don't mind if I clean bq27200.sh script (to use i2c-tools package, not stand alone i2cget) and add it to next version of bnf from repos? Jul 29 02:14:26 Significantly lower than the nokia bl-5j in my spare n900 Jul 29 02:14:28 ShadowJK, exactly (resistance), I would like to prove it experimentally Jul 29 02:14:37 even lower than japod, and any single-cell Jul 29 02:14:42 what's "bnf"? Jul 29 02:15:04 but sure go ahead Jul 29 02:15:11 http://maemo.org/packages/view/bnf/ Jul 29 02:15:13 thanks Jul 29 02:15:23 * ShadowJK has a version somewhere that looks for local i2c-tools then systemwide Jul 29 02:15:30 or then I lost that version Jul 29 02:15:32 before You ask, you're credited for scripts, ideas, etc, all over the place :P Jul 29 02:15:33 * ShadowJK shrugs Jul 29 02:15:55 I know you wouldn't ask, but indeed I've credited You :) Jul 29 02:16:19 it was script that pop-up banner with all encesssary info, I used it with shortcutd to have it on long-press of camera button Jul 29 02:16:23 even when inside full-screen aps etc Jul 29 02:16:37 ncie thing to measure current current used by some games and so goes on Jul 29 02:16:46 (or easy debian without leaving LXDE) Jul 29 02:16:55 I sued it for ages, finally mvoed my ass, tuned it, and packaged Jul 29 02:17:07 suprisingly, it got very wamr reception for such small script Jul 29 02:17:47 ShadowJK, fuck the duck! This charging thing may be mistake Jul 29 02:17:57 I just have nuked tracker databvase, odds are that it's rebuilding Jul 29 02:17:59 hm? Jul 29 02:18:02 thus really eating 300-400 mA Jul 29 02:18:03 oh Jul 29 02:18:10 top? Jul 29 02:18:21 checking it (conky jsut freaked out) Jul 29 02:18:35 hm, looks like all idle Jul 29 02:18:58 kill charge.sh; sleep 10: bq27k-detail; charge.sh Jul 29 02:19:12 ? Jul 29 02:19:24 sure, I can, but what use for it? Jul 29 02:19:31 what should I check in details? Jul 29 02:19:40 killing charge.sh doesnt stop charging Jul 29 02:19:46 not immediately atleast Jul 29 02:19:46 0_o? Jul 29 02:19:53 so sleep 20? Jul 29 02:19:56 you could unplug charger and check rate Jul 29 02:20:06 ShadowJK: ouch, you ought add a trap Jul 29 02:20:26 see booston Jul 29 02:20:44 killing script results in approximately 30s the yellow led will come on steady indicating 100mA emergency charge Jul 29 02:20:50 rate of idlee device with screen off and charge running is 20 mA Jul 29 02:21:07 did as you suggested, ujnplugged cable Jul 29 02:21:14 20ma used, of course Jul 29 02:21:20 not provided :P Jul 29 02:21:25 Yeah so I'd try stepping down charge rate (3 places to change in script) and see if sys makes more sense Jul 29 02:21:26 so out of ideas again Jul 29 02:21:46 for sure it will, as RATE was ok, and sys is charge - Rate Jul 29 02:22:09 it's just that charge assume I'm charging on 1250, and for some twisted reason, i'm charging on ~1A only Jul 29 02:22:20 Well it only assumes charge is 1250 Jul 29 02:22:37 for sure it isn't stock 950, cause I remember it to be less (really no more than 950) and this for sure is more than 950 Jul 29 02:22:43 yes Jul 29 02:23:22 lol, even better Jul 29 02:23:39 there are two possible reasons, the charger (chip, psu) isnt providing configured 1250 @ 4.2V, or, you're losing more voltage between charging chip and battery than what is typical for the N900s I've used Jul 29 02:23:42 current with charge.sh on and no cable, with screen off, is -4ma, somnetimes -7 mA Jul 29 02:24:28 sounds about right Jul 29 02:24:42 sometimes even 25mA Jul 29 02:25:05 So I'd start by reducing requested charge rate (3 places to change in the script), and observing whether figured start making sense Jul 29 02:25:07 when i left device for a while, it was stable 4-7 mA. So no tracker rebuilding in background Jul 29 02:25:19 ShadowJK, OK Jul 29 02:25:34 but I'm sure (:P) that it will make sense as long as I provide 1A requested or less Jul 29 02:25:53 if they don't make sense, I'd then leave it at 550mA requested charge, and increase the CR variable until reported sys: is at 20-50mA range Jul 29 02:26:11 since bq27200 always reports current evrg during *last* sampling window, which obviously never is a window when the bq27200 script was _running_ (rather than sleeping) - unless you set loop 5 Jul 29 02:26:45 ShadowJK, confirmed, at 950 requested it makes sense Jul 29 02:27:02 DocScrutinizer, I test it with loop 5 Jul 29 02:27:20 then you should see more than avrg 4...7mA Jul 29 02:27:33 ShadowJK, at 1050 requested it is slightly off. For some reason, my charging goes on 1A and no more Jul 29 02:27:40 I see 26mA on loop 5 Jul 29 02:27:44 DocScrutinizer, i told ya that my device is power-savbing :) Jul 29 02:27:51 causeYou don't use kernel-power?:P Jul 29 02:28:04 no widgets here, that could refresh when shouldn't Jul 29 02:28:11 powertop when idle reports 97% time in C4 Jul 29 02:28:22 DocScrutinizer, could You test with powertop? basic 30 secs test Jul 29 02:28:30 it sleeps for 15 seconds or so, then do 30 sec test Jul 29 02:28:39 test what? Jul 29 02:28:48 of course pwoertop test fluctuate, but usually it's around 94-98% time in C4 Jul 29 02:28:54 time spent by CPu in C4, obviously Jul 29 02:29:05 if You have 26 mA, I suspect something waking up CPu more than necessary Jul 29 02:29:10 not very much, but a little Jul 29 02:29:14 98% Jul 29 02:29:29 hello, how to create a bluetooth connection? Jul 29 02:29:37 for example - it is unrelated to Your case - I had once Easy Debian's xbindkeys runnign always, which turned out to generate 300 more wakeups than necessary Jul 29 02:29:41 sigh, of course day after my ups died, a thunderstorm is rolling in Jul 29 02:29:43 couldn't detect it via power usage Jul 29 02:29:49 ShadowJK, heh Jul 29 02:29:54 I see 4...7mA when doing loop 10, and 26mA when doing loop 5 Jul 29 02:29:56 I need to share network connection with another cell phone Jul 29 02:30:00 DocScrutinizer, hm Jul 29 02:30:18 DocScrutinizer, confirming, my mistake. It was loop 15 Jul 29 02:30:41 as I modified it, earlier, to tets wioth charge21.sh, that during standby also reports in 15 Jul 29 02:31:06 BTw I wonder why fuckin tracker isn't rebuilding database, after I nuked it? Jul 29 02:31:16 LaoLang_cool, does the other phone support DUN? Jul 29 02:31:46 Estel_, I do not know.. the phone is palm treo 650 Jul 29 02:31:48 which phone is going to provide network, and which one to leech it? Jul 29 02:32:07 Estel_, I want palm to provide the networking to n900 Jul 29 02:32:48 hm, definitelly should be possible, but it's such unusual scenario, that I can't recall any easy method, sorry Jul 29 02:33:19 would require messing with... iptables? or what was it? Jul 29 02:33:35 on TMO, there is thread with bluetooth scripts to do reverse scenario Jul 29 02:33:41 maybe You could scavenge from it? Jul 29 02:33:56 there was PAN version also Jul 29 02:33:57 will be harder to convince the treo to share network Jul 29 02:34:01 (personal area networking) Jul 29 02:34:20 ShadowJK, my thoughts exactly, but in fact, how to setup N900 foir leeching network over bluetooth? Jul 29 02:34:24 LaoLang_cool: just create a proper network for it, as in "settings - networks" Jul 29 02:34:33 would require script/terminal trickery much, no fool-proof solution, afaik Jul 29 02:34:34 Estel_, oh, I'm newbie, it's out of my knowledge at current time, I should try it later when I have learned something basic Jul 29 02:34:54 LaoLang_cool,, not so newbie,m already few weeks IIRC :) Jul 29 02:35:24 Estel_, I'm newbie on the thing I'm trying to do ;p Jul 29 02:35:31 ShadowJK, call me noon, but for now I don't even know where to start with editing what to make N900 leech net over bluetooth Jul 29 02:35:35 net access Jul 29 02:36:04 install DUN Jul 29 02:36:05 DocScrutinizer, how You want to create network lkeeching over bluetooth with N900's settings->network? Jul 29 02:36:07 Using another phone's network connectivity over bluetooth isn't something that any phone, including n900, supports. On n900 there's atleast the possibility of DIY though Jul 29 02:36:12 DocScrutinizer, I have DUN Jul 29 02:36:29 ShadowJK, sure, that's why I'm thinking about DIy solution Jul 29 02:36:34 where to start Jul 29 02:36:41 not that I need it personally, but LaoLang_cool made me curious Jul 29 02:36:45 check how N810/diablo did it Jul 29 02:36:49 DocScrutinizer05, I can't find 'networks' under 'settings' :( Jul 29 02:37:04 LaoLang_cool, doesn't matter, as it allow WiFi and mobile networks only Jul 29 02:37:06 to be created Jul 29 02:37:20 I suppose it would need to be like with ethernet-> usb adaptor Jul 29 02:37:25 i.e. some "dummy" network Jul 29 02:37:29 nope Jul 29 02:37:31 that You connect to from connection manager Jul 29 02:37:41 Estel_, seems it only allows to create a wifi connection Jul 29 02:37:42 and that is in fact configured for bluetooth Jul 29 02:37:43 hm? Jul 29 02:37:46 it allows DUN as well, as soon as you install a proper setting Jul 29 02:38:03 it also allows ad-hoc Jul 29 02:38:06 heh, lost power Jul 29 02:38:09 and PAN Jul 29 02:38:13 hm, IIRc DUN package from repos was about sharing network to PC over dun, but... Jul 29 02:38:22 DocScrutinizer, could You elaborate? Jul 29 02:38:22 DocScrutinizer05, this one? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/bluetooth-dun/ Jul 29 02:39:00 I think that one is a DUN host Jul 29 02:39:07 no DUN client Jul 29 02:39:27 DocScrutinizer05, what the proper setting do I need to install? Jul 29 02:39:47 DocScrutinizer, where is DUN client? I can't recall any Jul 29 02:40:08 ShadowJK, because You're not using dual scud :P Jul 29 02:40:38 http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN#Nokia_N8x0 Jul 29 02:40:44 I can enable "Dial-up Net working" in palm treo, so I think now the only thing need to be done is at n900 side, right? Jul 29 02:42:04 I dunno if it still works 100% same way as on N810 Jul 29 02:42:12 but method should be similar Jul 29 02:42:45 Estel_; no because of thunderstorm Jul 29 02:44:04 ShadowJK, lol, murphy's law and UPs thing? Jul 29 02:44:45 ya Jul 29 02:45:30 ok, probably it's not enabled by default on N900 Jul 29 02:45:39 (bt DUN client) Jul 29 02:46:26 blitzortung.org is saturated with lightning strikes near where I live Jul 29 02:47:30 what should I need to do on maemo? Jul 29 02:47:38 I'm using cssu stable Jul 29 02:50:41 ShadowJK: duh! blitzortung.org? Jul 29 02:51:20 yes Jul 29 02:51:30 LaoLang_cool: I have to read up stuff like you. http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth is a nice starting point Jul 29 02:51:35 Do I understand right? If I want to share phone 1 networking to phone 2, bluetooth dial-up networking should be on on phone1, then I need to install a dun client on phone 2, right? Jul 29 02:51:52 right Jul 29 02:52:22 "DUN is the primary method for tethering to cellular devices. It is easy to set up and easy to use" Jul 29 02:52:25 on diablo/N810 DUN (and PAN) clients worked fine Jul 29 02:52:40 yeah, exactly Jul 29 02:52:43 I don't think it's easy to set up, I don't know where to set it up at all! Jul 29 02:53:01 LaoLang_cool: this is from diablo ages Jul 29 02:53:02 where can I find a client for n900? Jul 29 02:53:29 I bet it's already there, just not supported by the setup Jul 29 02:53:41 * ShadowJK has doubts Jul 29 02:53:54 oh.. Jul 29 02:54:01 still no any clue... Jul 29 02:54:11 more confused now... Jul 29 02:55:34 hah, grid frequency is 50.1 Jul 29 02:56:18 LaoLang_cool: wait a bit, I'm still trying to find something for you. Or better not wait and instead search on tmo and aunt google Jul 29 02:56:47 LaoLang_cool; it's not supported. He means that since it was supported in Maemo 4 on Nokia N800 and N810, the functionality might still be present, but disabled, on Maemo 5 N900 Jul 29 02:57:18 So you wouldnt find it in any menu or in the settings app Jul 29 02:57:40 yep, exactly. I noticed it's not working anymore on N900 settings-internet as it used to on N810 Jul 29 02:57:42 ShadowJK, oh, so I should give up to try? Jul 29 02:58:25 LaoLang_cool: use google! Jul 29 02:58:40 I bet you're not the first one to try this Jul 29 02:58:48 LaoLang_cool; like I said earlier, it'd of course be possibly to DIY Jul 29 02:59:01 DocScrutinizer05, thanks, googling Jul 29 02:59:01 maybe someone has done it before Jul 29 02:59:20 ShadowJK, ok, googling :) Jul 29 02:59:33 but then again, as N900 has its own cellular connectivity, there'd be few people who has a need for it? Jul 29 02:59:56 ShadowJK: half of north america needs it ;-D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 29 02:59:58 2012