**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 03 02:59:59 2012
Aug 03 03:01:15 <EdLin> I'm having a problem with my new n900, I was charging it, for the second time (first time was before flashing, I successfully charged it to "green" 100%) and all of a sudden it said I needed to recharge the battery while it was on the charger. Now it's booting and rebooting in a loop.
Aug 03 03:07:54 <EdLin> does anyone have advice about boot loops like this?
Aug 03 04:28:51 <EdLin> my n900 while I was charging it all of a sudden said it was out of juice, then it shut down, now all it does if bootloop on the charger, and off not turn on at all. I've only had it a day, and I charged it successfully once before.
Aug 03 04:30:10 <EdLin> I guess I'll ask what to do on TMO if I can't get a quick answer here.
Aug 03 04:41:43 <EdLin> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85842
Aug 03 05:27:16 <freemangordon> EdLin: need a new battery?
Aug 03 08:00:46 <EdLin> freemangordon, maybe I do need a new battery, knowing what I know now about cellphonesforever on eBay, they probably gave me a fake.
Aug 03 08:13:01 <EdLin> what does it mean when there's a flashing red LED?
Aug 03 08:13:58 <Sv> throw it the farthest you can
Aug 03 08:46:54 <kerio> D:
Aug 03 08:46:56 <kerio> lol
Aug 03 08:47:10 <kerio> EdLin: it doesn't look like a good sign, anyway
Aug 03 08:47:27 <kerio> EdLin: does it feel swollen?
Aug 03 09:19:06 <EdLin> kerio, no, not really.
Aug 03 10:12:38 <zeq> freemangordon: I'm considering enabling gcj in the toolchain. I only didn't do so to keep the size down. What do you think? Would other languages be useful?
Aug 03 11:34:49 <wookey> OK. I have an n900 and just got usb0 working from my laptop
Aug 03 11:35:01 <wookey> I can ssh in, but what is the pasword for the default user 'user?
Aug 03 11:38:35 <wookey> Also I have mobilehtspot 0.3.5, but it doesn;t work because the conntrack modules it comes with are for 2.6.28.10-power51 and I'm running the stock kernel
Aug 03 11:39:20 <jon_y> wookey: use the kernel-power
Aug 03 11:39:38 <jon_y> there are no default passwords
Aug 03 11:39:42 <wookey> yes. I worked that out and tried installing it
Aug 03 11:40:03 <wookey> but got a complaint that line37 of my suedoers file is invalid so it wouldn't install
Aug 03 11:40:14 <wookey> any ideas what's that's about?
Aug 03 11:40:14 <jon_y> after installing the kernel, you'll need to reboot unless you know what you're doing
Aug 03 11:40:28 <wookey> this is why I want to ssh in so I don't have to type on the tiny keyboard :-)
Aug 03 11:40:36 <jon_y> don't know what went wrong for you, root/users ssh works for me over usb
Aug 03 11:41:43 <wookey> so ssh user@192.168.2.15 (or root@) should let me in with no password?
Aug 03 11:42:03 <jon_y> no, you are supposed to set the password on the phone
Aug 03 11:42:05 <wookey> neither work
Aug 03 11:42:08 <jon_y> or use madde developer
Aug 03 11:42:39 <wookey> OK, so changing the passwd for user or root isn;t going to break anything else?
Aug 03 11:42:44 <jon_y> you should be prompted for the user password when installing ssh server
Aug 03 11:43:01 <jon_y> it should be fine
Aug 03 11:44:06 <wookey> OK. I'm in :-)
Aug 03 11:47:16 <wookey> do I need kernel-power-booting in order for kernel-power-flasher/kernle-power to work OK?
Aug 03 11:47:39 <wookey> or will just apt-get install kernel-power-flasher DTRT (mopdule whatever is wrong with my sudoers)
Aug 03 11:49:38 <wookey> OK, so the error on trying to install kernel-power-flasher is Setting up kernel-power-flasher (1:2.6.28-10power51r1) ...
Aug 03 11:49:41 <wookey> >>> sudoers file: syntax error, line 37 <<<
Aug 03 11:49:43 <wookey> /etc/sudoers.d/everybody.sudoers changes break sudoers
Aug 03 11:51:47 <wookey> and that file contians user ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/sudser-worker
Aug 03 11:51:48 <wookey> user ALL=(ALL) PASSWD: 
Aug 03 11:52:19 <wookey> dpkg says no package owns that file
Aug 03 11:56:19 <wookey> OK. that second line was duff. removing it allows kernel-power-flasher to install
Aug 03 11:56:31 <wookey> having a linux phone is cool, it breaks in ways I understand :-)
Aug 03 11:57:16 <wookey> So I can just reboot now and everything should be lovely? Are there things I ought to know/do in case of boot failure? I'm clueless about talking to bootloader etc on this devce
Aug 03 12:02:49 <wookey> well, it still boots :-)
Aug 03 12:04:42 <wookey> does the power kernel use more power or is it just 'better'?
Aug 03 12:05:09 <wookey> i.e. is there any reason why I might want to set up multiboot so I can run stock easily?
Aug 03 12:12:29 <DocScrutinizer05> --use the kernel-power--  I always feel like watching starwars. In my book this is powerkernel, like green car. While in package naming it goes from more general to more specific, like kernel -> kernel-power, and car -> car-green
Aug 03 12:12:55 <DocScrutinizer05> use the power! lol
Aug 03 12:14:28 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Did you read the thread?
Aug 03 12:14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> oops not yet
Aug 03 12:15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> btw look at my nick ;-)
Aug 03 12:15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> where's the friggin "donate2 button?
Aug 03 12:17:47 <DocScrutinizer05> even on reading 2nd time I still fail to spot the proposed way of donation
Aug 03 12:18:25 <wookey> hmm, the main fature of this new kernel seems to be inability to use wireless or GSM internet
Aug 03 12:19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: please give me URL to donate via PayPal
Aug 03 12:19:41 <wookey> hm, but I can still make phone calls
Aug 03 12:21:32 * jonwil wonders if there is a way to dump or packet log netlink communications
Aug 03 12:22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> sudser???
Aug 03 12:22:58 <DocScrutinizer05> fscj sudser!
Aug 03 12:24:18 <kerio> wookey: :(
Aug 03 12:24:26 <kerio> fuck sudser, indeed
Aug 03 12:24:33 <DocScrutinizer05> wookey: you don't want to set up multiboot
Aug 03 12:24:34 <kerio> not that rootsh is better, mind you
Aug 03 12:24:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~maemo-multiboot
Aug 03 12:24:53 <kerio> wookey: multiboot will slowly but surely wreck your nand
Aug 03 12:24:56 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, she's really out a lot lately
Aug 03 12:25:03 <kerio> (it reflashes the kernel at every boot)
Aug 03 12:25:36 <kerio> kernel-power, when it works, is better than the stock kernel
Aug 03 12:25:40 <wookey> OK. GSM network working now - looks like I need to re-get netowrk setting from operator
Aug 03 12:25:54 <wookey> kerio: I see. that's worth knowing
Aug 03 12:25:56 <kerio> for instance, it lets you use smartreflex
Aug 03 12:26:11 <kerio> and usb host mode
Aug 03 12:26:16 <kerio> and stuff like mobilehotspot
Aug 03 12:26:25 <kerio> and overclocking, if you suck
Aug 03 12:26:34 <wookey> ah, so the usb is OTG?
Aug 03 12:26:42 <kerio> and working injection, for wifi
Aug 03 12:26:43 <wookey> and do both I have the right cables
Aug 03 12:26:44 <kerio> not quite
Aug 03 12:26:45 <DocScrutinizer05> while smartreflex in itself is controversy
Aug 03 12:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> wookey: not OTG, but host
Aug 03 12:27:18 <kerio> host mode is a lot more manual
Aug 03 12:27:44 <DocScrutinizer05> OTG >> usb-host, but you never will feel a need for the added cruft
Aug 03 12:27:54 <kerio> kp also has the basis for a future bme replacement
Aug 03 12:28:10 <DocScrutinizer05> fsck netsplits
Aug 03 12:28:14 <wookey> bme?
Aug 03 12:28:17 <kerio> hey vi_ 
Aug 03 12:28:21 * wookey googles smartreflex
Aug 03 12:28:23 <kerio> i has an otterbox :D
Aug 03 12:28:25 <DocScrutinizer05> the bot reliably blows chunks each single time
Aug 03 12:35:45 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: ping
Aug 03 12:35:57 <kerio> vi_: double ping
Aug 03 12:36:24 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: WTF is the paypal "Donate" button for zeq device???
Aug 03 12:36:50 <kerio> hey DocScrutinizer05
Aug 03 12:36:58 <kerio> i have an otterbox :D
Aug 03 12:37:03 <kerio> this thing is massive
Aug 03 12:37:09 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: I have 20EUR waiting here allocated for the purpose, I DO NOT have an afternoon of time for following up on the issue
Aug 03 12:41:20 * wookey failing miserably to make hotspot work still/win 44
Aug 03 12:41:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yet/lose 42
Aug 03 12:43:51 <DocScrutinizer05> DAFUUUUUQ tmo PM - what an epic fail
Aug 03 12:47:26 <zeq> wookey: is that qtmobilehotspot?
Aug 03 12:47:44 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: I TMO PMd you my paypal address.
Aug 03 12:48:19 <wookey> zeq: it's this: http://maemo.org/packages/view/mobilehotspot/
Aug 03 12:48:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, now figuring how to read tmo PM, how to do a fucking paypal transfer without any proper donate button etc pp
Aug 03 12:48:39 <wookey> so now it runs, and loads modules which is good
Aug 03 12:49:18 <DocScrutinizer05> this whole shit costs me 20EUr plus 3h work = more than a new N900 worth
Aug 03 12:49:27 <kerio> wookey: that's mobilehotspot, not qtmobilehotspot
Aug 03 12:49:30 <kerio> i prefe tr
Aug 03 12:49:31 <kerio> er
Aug 03 12:49:37 <kerio> i prefer the former, though
Aug 03 12:49:55 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: You go to paypal, you go to send funds, you enter my address and the value.
Aug 03 12:49:59 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: why can't you get a proper Donate button like e.g. in MohammadAG's post#1 in usb-hostmode thread?
Aug 03 12:50:25 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: I dafaq not even know how to go to paypal
Aug 03 12:50:39 <wookey> DocScrutinizer05: all you have to do is entry someone email address and click 'send money' - it's hardly rocket science
Aug 03 12:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't use paypal usually
Aug 03 12:50:41 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: http://www.paypal.com
Aug 03 12:51:00 <DocScrutinizer05> *sigh*
Aug 03 12:51:03 <kerio> haha
Aug 03 12:52:15 <DocScrutinizer05> great, now I have to dig up the password for paypal on my old PC
Aug 03 12:54:55 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Sorry doc, when you said you would pledge 20euro, I did not think it would be a hassle for you to do it.
Aug 03 12:55:54 <jonwil> whats the name of the package you use to log network packets?
Aug 03 12:56:04 <jonwil> on the N900
Aug 03 12:57:16 <vi_> jonwil: wireshark
Aug 03 12:57:24 <vi_> and to a lesser extent tshark
Aug 03 12:57:33 <jonwil> wireshark is what you use to view the packets
Aug 03 12:57:40 <jonwil> but what do you run on-phone to log the packets?
Aug 03 12:57:50 <vi_> ...wut?
Aug 03 12:58:03 <vi_> You run wireshark to log AND view the packets.
Aug 03 12:58:42 <vi_> If you do not want the overhead of wireshark gui you can use tshark, terminal program.
Aug 03 12:58:51 <jonwil> no, I remember a command line program on the N900 that logs the packets without any GUI
Aug 03 12:58:58 <vi_> TSHARK
Aug 03 12:58:58 <jonwil> it wasnt wireshark, it was pcap or something
Aug 03 12:59:05 <vi_> T
Aug 03 12:59:05 <DocScrutinizer05> tshark
Aug 03 12:59:05 <vi_> S
Aug 03 12:59:06 <vi_> H
Aug 03 12:59:07 <vi_> A
Aug 03 12:59:09 <vi_> R
Aug 03 12:59:11 <vi_> K
Aug 03 12:59:46 <jonwil> aha, tcpdump is the one I used befoer
Aug 03 12:59:48 <jonwil> before
Aug 03 12:59:52 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the pledge! I will edit the typo.
Aug 03 13:00:18 <jonwil> so I will use tcpdump again
Aug 03 13:00:43 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Also I hate paypal as well, however it allows us to exchange monies without worrying about things like logistics and trust.
Aug 03 13:01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: for next fundraiser please look at e.g. my signature on tmo, or -even better - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866260&postcount=1
Aug 03 13:02:04 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: I shall.
Aug 03 13:02:35 <vi_> However this way it made it easier to stop the donations when we had enough.
Aug 03 13:02:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no need to send out email addr via tmo(! :-o) PM
Aug 03 13:03:09 <zeq> thanks for the donation DocScrutinizer :)
Aug 03 13:03:25 <DocScrutinizer05> said, done
Aug 03 13:03:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yw, thanks for contributing
Aug 03 13:06:02 * DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to port kde-wallet to fremantle, or sync kde-wallet with whatever passwd-vault app there might be on N900
Aug 03 13:08:50 <DocScrutinizer05> well, thanks vi_ I now know my paypal password again ;-P
Aug 03 13:09:06 <vi_> np!
Aug 03 13:09:20 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: was it "password"?
Aug 03 13:09:38 <DocScrutinizer05> close, but a near miss
Aug 03 13:09:45 <jonwil> damn, it looks like you cant log netlink packets, at least not with tcpdump
Aug 03 13:09:50 <kerio> was it "password1"?
Aug 03 13:09:51 <jonwil> probably not with anything
Aug 03 13:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> *burp*
Aug 03 13:10:26 <DocScrutinizer05> tshark won't trace netlink?
Aug 03 13:10:58 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly only netdev huh?
Aug 03 13:11:01 <jonwil> aha
Aug 03 13:11:02 <jonwil> http://nowmovealong.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/monitoring-linux-netlink-traffic.html
Aug 03 13:14:54 <jonwil> or maybe not
Aug 03 13:17:39 <wookey> bugger me 
Aug 03 13:17:45 * wookey is tethered over GSM
Aug 03 13:18:02 <wookey> it can work :-)
Aug 03 13:19:34 <wookey> A bit of fiddling to make it more automagic and I should be good to go
Aug 03 13:19:34 <DocScrutinizer05> what else?
Aug 03 13:20:11 <DocScrutinizer05> wookey: what exactly are you messing with?
Aug 03 13:20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a wiki page howto for basically everything
Aug 03 13:20:50 <DocScrutinizer05> usually "there's an app for it2 even ;-)
Aug 03 13:21:25 <wookey> I wanted to make my phone give my laptop net access
Aug 03 13:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> via USB?
Aug 03 13:21:43 <wookey> could do it via ppp but hten you need to know the runes
Aug 03 13:21:53 <wookey> so I used mobilehotspot
Aug 03 13:22:03 <wookey> but that needed a kernel upgrade to load its modules
Aug 03 13:22:04 <DocScrutinizer05> should work OOTB
Aug 03 13:22:12 <wookey> and then I had to get my sim working on the provider
Aug 03 13:22:32 <wookey> and then I had to get wicd to use the usb0 instead of eth0
Aug 03 13:22:39 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik mobile hotspot comes with dependency to matching kernel
Aug 03 13:22:51 <wookey> DocScrutinizer05: that didn;t 'just work'
Aug 03 13:22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so if you install it via HAM you should be good
Aug 03 13:23:17 <wookey> I used the standard gui installer and it didn;t upgrade my kernel
Aug 03 13:23:32 <DocScrutinizer05> just don't use crap like fapman, or apt-get which is for experts only who know they have to revert to HAM when anything goes awry with apt
Aug 03 13:23:45 <DocScrutinizer05> wookey: then that's a bug
Aug 03 13:23:51 <DocScrutinizer05> even a regression
Aug 03 13:24:01 <wookey> never heard of HAM
Aug 03 13:24:09 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik it actually pulled kernel in former times
Aug 03 13:24:14 * wookey is new to actually messing with my phone
Aug 03 13:24:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Hildon App manager
Aug 03 13:24:28 <DocScrutinizer05> the default one
Aug 03 13:24:39 <wookey> OK. that's what I used
Aug 03 13:24:42 <DocScrutinizer05> the slooooow one ;-P
Aug 03 13:24:55 <DocScrutinizer05> you already spotted a regression I'd say
Aug 03 13:25:08 <wookey> poking on the terminal showed that the problem with was the module/kernel mismatch
Aug 03 13:25:38 <DocScrutinizer05> well, probably dependencies broke with PK51 update, not really any exciting new thing to watch
Aug 03 13:25:46 <wookey> So i upgraded today, which was pleasingly easy except that $something had put a duff line in my /etc/sudoers.d/
Aug 03 13:26:02 <DocScrutinizer05> uninstall sudser!
Aug 03 13:26:05 <wookey> at least the upgrade checked rather than screwing things up -  I was quite impressed :-)
Aug 03 13:26:09 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a brainfart
Aug 03 13:26:54 <wookey> I seem to need different config for hotspot use and ssh-to-phone use on the laptop end
Aug 03 13:27:11 <wookey> former uses dhcp, latter needs static IP config for 192.168.2.x
Aug 03 13:27:36 <DocScrutinizer05> hotspot creates a fake wifi-AP on N900
Aug 03 13:27:45 <wookey> I guess I can fettle up the phone to procide dhcp and bring up the usb0 automatically
Aug 03 13:27:59 <wookey> it gives you a choice of wifi ap or usb0 conection
Aug 03 13:28:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard about that
Aug 03 13:28:51 <DocScrutinizer05> check wiki "usb-networking" page
Aug 03 13:28:56 * jonwil is sure there must be a way to dump netlink packets
Aug 03 13:29:06 <jonwil> I just cant find it no matter how hard I google :P
Aug 03 13:29:10 <DocScrutinizer05> which is about networking without hotspot/dhcp/whatever
Aug 03 13:29:32 <wookey> DocScrutinizer05: I've saved that page for messing once they take my net away - it seems comprehensive :-)
Aug 03 13:30:17 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: wireshark --help: -y <link type>           link layer type (def: first appropriate)
Aug 03 13:30:28 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno...
Aug 03 13:30:31 <wookey> wicd is pretty stupid aboutswitching between eth0 and usb0. have to change config file and restart dameon
Aug 03 13:30:54 <wookey> network-mangler is better in this regard I hear. maybe I'll have to hold nose and try that
Aug 03 13:31:40 <jonwil> now I just need to find wireshark for the n900 :P
Aug 03 13:31:49 <DocScrutinizer05> TSHARK!!!
Aug 03 13:31:56 <jonwil> yeah or tshark
Aug 03 13:32:24 <jonwil> ok, its in extras-devel
Aug 03 13:33:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ # apt-cache policy tshark
Aug 03 13:33:05 <DocScrutinizer05> tshark:
Aug 03 13:33:07 <DocScrutinizer05>   Installed: 1.2.6-0maemo1
Aug 03 13:33:08 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Aug 03 13:34:03 * DocScrutinizer05 waves
Aug 03 13:34:32 * DocScrutinizer05 kicks in infobot's direction, into a void
Aug 03 13:34:50 <DocScrutinizer05> damn netsplits, damn bot scheduler
Aug 03 13:39:32 <jonwil> ok, tshark cant do netlink because there is no interface for tshark to connect to and log from
Aug 03 13:39:40 <jonwil> or at least thats the impression I get from the manual
Aug 03 13:39:55 <jonwil> remember netlink isn't sent like regular packets, its an IPC mechanism
Aug 03 13:41:38 <jonwil> The only way I can think of to do this as of now would be to hack strace to grab the contents of each entry sent to sendmsg and recvmsg and dump to a binary file.
Aug 03 13:41:46 <jonwil> and parse the results manually
Aug 03 13:43:36 <jonwil> aha, I can modify libnl to do what I want
Aug 03 13:43:41 <jonwil> and dump the data being sent through
Aug 03 13:44:10 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@halebop:/btr77G> tshark -L
Aug 03 13:44:11 <DocScrutinizer05> tshark: There are no interfaces on which a capture can be done
Aug 03 13:44:13 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF?!
Aug 03 13:45:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ # tshark -L
Aug 03 13:45:36 <DocScrutinizer05> Data link types (use option -y to set):
Aug 03 13:45:37 <DocScrutinizer05>   IEEE802_11
Aug 03 13:45:39 <DocScrutinizer05>  (802.11)
Aug 03 13:45:41 <DocScrutinizer05> (on N900)
Aug 03 13:45:52 <jonwil> yeah thats picking up the options for wlan0
Aug 03 13:45:57 <jonwil> thats what I see on my phone too
Aug 03 13:46:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess *shark needs a capture interface compiled in for netlink
Aug 03 13:46:44 <jonwil> yes I guess so
Aug 03 13:47:14 <DocScrutinizer05> btw root helps ;-)
Aug 03 13:47:18 <DocScrutinizer05> halebop:~ # tshark -L
Aug 03 13:47:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Data link types (use option -y to set):
Aug 03 13:47:21 <DocScrutinizer05>   EN10MB (Ethernet)
Aug 03 13:47:23 <DocScrutinizer05>   DOCSIS (DOCSIS)
Aug 03 13:48:23 <jonwil> I did find http://www.wireshark.org/lists/wireshark-dev/201103/msg00082.html
Aug 03 13:48:31 <jonwil> which is someone asking about netlink and getting no answer
Aug 03 13:50:11 <DocScrutinizer05> rtmon anyway seems to work, you spotted that. Why are you not content with it?
Aug 03 13:50:32 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, it might be missing on N900 ;-P
Aug 03 13:52:35 <DocScrutinizer05> well, in the end *shark probably is the wrong tool for data over netlink anyway
Aug 03 13:53:25 <DocScrutinizer05> just like using gdb to grep in a file for a string was the wrong tool for the purpose
Aug 03 13:54:46 <jonwil> ok, looks like iproute might help
Aug 03 13:55:01 <jonwil> lets install that package
Aug 03 13:56:01 <jonwil> hmmm no rtmon doesn't help
Aug 03 13:56:06 <jonwil> its only for monitoring routing table changes
Aug 03 13:56:13 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: anyway let me know what you finally come up with, since monitoring netlink sockets is sth I'm interested in as well
Aug 03 13:56:35 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: after all it's the channel for kevents notifications
Aug 03 13:56:39 <jonwil> yes
Aug 03 13:56:56 <jonwil> it seems like no such logger exists
Aug 03 13:57:12 <DocScrutinizer05> udevadm monitor is close
Aug 03 13:57:20 <DocScrutinizer05> but not exactly helping
Aug 03 13:58:57 <jonwil> seems like hacking libnl might be the way to go
Aug 03 13:59:10 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: since netlink socks are not bound to a device (like eth0) I guess there's no way except strace-alike to monitor this particular IPC
Aug 03 13:59:23 <jonwil> if I hack libnl to dump the data, that might help
Aug 03 13:59:27 <DocScrutinizer05> all the *mon tools just open their own sock
Aug 03 13:59:38 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Aug 03 14:00:43 <DocScrutinizer05> the idea of netlink aiui being a one-to-many broadcast from kernel to all the clients that are listening to their associated socket
Aug 03 14:01:20 <DocScrutinizer05> of course also reverse messages getting transported through that IPC, form app to kernel
Aug 03 14:02:09 <DocScrutinizer05> mere handwaving since I never looked that deep into what netlink does
Aug 03 14:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: sure hacking libnl will allow you to trace the traffic of that one app that's linked against your libnl_hacked
Aug 03 14:04:08 <DocScrutinizer05> or - if that's libnl.so - you even might be able to monitor all apps that use libnl
Aug 03 14:04:25 <DocScrutinizer05> but there are way for an app to use netlink without libnl afaik
Aug 03 14:04:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ways*
Aug 03 14:05:10 <DocScrutinizer05> you also could hack kernel to trace all netlink traffic to syslog ;-)
Aug 03 14:05:23 <DocScrutinizer05> it probably depends on what you're after
Aug 03 14:06:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hey, maybe there IS already such kernel-borne tracing? you checked debugfs etc?
Aug 03 14:10:12 <DocScrutinizer05> you also could hack kernel to trace all netlink traffic to syslog ;-)
Aug 03 14:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> it probably depends on what you're after
Aug 03 14:10:18 <DocScrutinizer05> hey, maybe there IS already such kernel-borne tracing? you checked debugfs etc?
Aug 03 14:14:27 <jonwil> nope, cant find any kernel dumps to dump strace stuff
Aug 03 14:14:31 <jonwil> I mean netlink
Aug 03 14:14:59 <DocScrutinizer05> :-/
Aug 03 14:15:43 <DocScrutinizer05> if you just want to monitor a particular userland process, strace probably is your first choice
Aug 03 14:16:00 <jonwil> but strace wont give me all the info from the netlink writes
Aug 03 14:16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> it won't?
Aug 03 14:24:22 <jonwil> I am currently hacking strace to do what I want
Aug 03 14:24:24 <jonwil> :P
Aug 03 14:29:44 <DocScrutinizer05> duh, strace needs any hacking? I think it just needs proper parameters and maybe a filter to select and format from output
Aug 03 14:31:41 <jonwil> well that was useless
Aug 03 14:31:46 <jonwil> I cant get strace to dump what I need
Aug 03 14:31:54 <jonwil> I think hacking libnl is the way to go
Aug 03 14:32:23 <jonwil> actually wait, I am not sure why I need to dump netlink in the first place
Aug 03 15:04:20 <jonwil> getting closer to having a testable wl1251-cal binary
Aug 03 15:06:47 <zeq1> jonwil: did you manage to work out the protocol?
Aug 03 15:07:09 <jonwil> I have gotten the special stuff used to send nvs to driver yes
Aug 03 15:07:18 <jonwil> its just netlink with some specific messages
Aug 03 15:12:03 <zeq1> good work :)
Aug 03 15:31:08 <kerio> hm, bnf has a wrong sudoers.d file
Aug 03 15:37:53 <DocScrutinizer05> bnf?
Aug 03 15:38:01 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf bnf
Aug 03 15:38:40 <sivang> hi all
Aug 03 15:38:43 <sivang> and re
Aug 03 15:39:03 <sivang> does anybody know if Harmattan's backup really backs up everything BUT DCIM and music ?
Aug 03 15:39:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ECHAN?
Aug 03 15:39:16 <sivang> (It did not show any options to choose from before starting the backup)
Aug 03 15:39:19 <sivang> oh
Aug 03 15:39:20 <sivang> oops
Aug 03 15:39:23 <sivang> DocScrutinizer05: indeed :)
Aug 03 15:39:29 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Aug 03 15:39:32 * sivang was sure he was in #harmattan
Aug 03 15:41:13 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: a cute little program that displays battery info on a system notification
Aug 03 15:42:09 <DocScrutinizer05> so probably something that a) rapes your CPU and battery, b) messes with kernel and c) displays absolute nonsense?
Aug 03 15:42:15 <kerio> but the .desktop file calls "sudo bnf", and there's a /usr/sbin/bnf executable
Aug 03 15:42:22 <kerio> but the sudoers.d file refers to /usr/sbin/bnf.sh
Aug 03 15:43:03 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Aug 03 15:43:18 <kerio> no, there's nothing running in the background
Aug 03 15:43:25 <kerio> and it doesn't mess with the kernel
Aug 03 15:43:42 <vi__> zeq1: n900...acquired.
Aug 03 15:43:57 <vi__> kerio: how do you like your otterbox?
Aug 03 15:44:10 <kerio> vi__: awesoem
Aug 03 15:44:20 <vi__> total monster size.
Aug 03 15:44:27 <kerio> it's still a bit weird to get the stylus or flick the lock slider
Aug 03 15:44:42 <vi__> You get used to it.
Aug 03 15:44:55 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: it just displays bq27200 data when you want to
Aug 03 15:44:55 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: I nevertheless could come up with 3 reasons why it's flawed, in 5 minutes. You however already pointed to one of them
Aug 03 15:45:15 <vi__> and when you do...after you take it out the box it seems so sleek and delicate!
Aug 03 15:45:31 <kerio> vi__: hehehe
Aug 03 15:45:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, and where from does it get that data? ha? haaa? from a bq27200.ko that breaks your system
Aug 03 15:45:58 <ShadowJK> or then it does it same way as bq27200.sh
Aug 03 15:46:01 <kerio> huh... i2cget?
Aug 03 15:46:12 <kerio> ShadowJK: yep
Aug 03 15:46:15 <DocScrutinizer05> well, then it works
Aug 03 15:46:32 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: oh you c:
Aug 03 15:46:56 <kerio> # Collecting data  - from bq27200.sh by shadowjk, with few things added by me
Aug 03 15:47:02 <kerio> yep indeed
Aug 03 15:47:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I got a bq27k-detail.desktop - guess what it does ;-P
Aug 03 15:47:23 <kerio> oh god busybox arithmetics
Aug 03 15:47:33 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: what bnf does, except you haven't shared it with anyone?
Aug 03 15:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Aug 03 15:47:49 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: does it show battery stats in a nice yellow bubble?
Aug 03 15:47:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I didn't think it was worth sharing
Aug 03 15:49:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Name=bq27k Monitor                                                                                                                                                    
Aug 03 15:49:02 <DocScrutinizer05> Exec=/usr/bin/osso-xterm 'sudo /root/bin/bq27200.sh 60'                                                                                                               
Aug 03 15:49:03 <DocScrutinizer05> Icon=iptraf
Aug 03 15:49:08 <DocScrutinizer05> see? I shared it now
Aug 03 15:49:25 <kerio> hehe
Aug 03 15:49:43 <DocScrutinizer05> oh, I probably should share the sudoers.d/* too, eh?
Aug 03 15:50:03 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i can try to guess what it contains
Aug 03 15:50:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I bet you succeed on first guess
Aug 03 15:50:43 * RST38h moos
Aug 03 15:50:51 * DocScrutinizer05 moos nack
Aug 03 15:50:57 <DocScrutinizer05> back even
Aug 03 15:51:02 <kerio> "user ALL: (ALL) NOPASSWD: /root/bin/bq27200.sh"?
Aug 03 15:51:08 <RST38h> How is our decline tonight?
Aug 03 15:51:14 <DocScrutinizer05> (fsck U trackpoint)
Aug 03 15:51:57 * DocScrutinizer05 considers removing that red rubber clit permanently
Aug 03 15:51:58 <kerio> vi__: btw, i didn't know the otterbox came with a screen protector :s
Aug 03 15:52:14 <kerio> i wasted 6€ buying a different one!
Aug 03 15:53:08 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: user ALL = NOPASSWD: /root/bin/bq27200.sh    --- indeed how did you guess TAHT??
Aug 03 15:53:31 <RST38h> Doc: Don't, cost me ~20% of a finger the last time
Aug 03 15:54:09 <kerio> :D
Aug 03 15:54:10 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: thanks for the warning :-D
Aug 03 15:55:11 <DocScrutinizer05> however I'm more concerned where to store that rubber blob
Aug 03 15:55:13 <RST38h> Don't recent Lenovos have a normal trackpad in addition to the masturbator(tm)?
Aug 03 15:55:20 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Aug 03 15:56:29 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders stashing that red thingie away in a PCMCIA slot
Aug 03 15:57:06 <kerio> don't remove the trackpoint! how will you play enigma afterwards?
Aug 03 15:57:23 <DocScrutinizer05> YEAH I pushed it into the modem RJ11 receptacle. Never ever will come out again :-S
Aug 03 15:57:36 <kerio> D:
Aug 03 15:58:37 <DocScrutinizer05> oh well, who needs masturbator, or POTS modem (latter one prolly not even functional without windoze softmodem driver)
Aug 03 15:58:55 <jonwil> There needs to be a special place in hell reserved for the guy who invented that red nub thing pointing device
Aug 03 15:58:56 <DocScrutinizer05> what an anachronism
Aug 03 15:59:34 <DocScrutinizer05> M O D E M - 56k   LOLWTF
Aug 03 15:59:48 <zeq1> vi_: :)
Aug 03 16:00:25 <DocScrutinizer05> even has an annoying green LED next to it, to tell me "here I am, eating your electricity for nuttin" all the time
Aug 03 16:02:08 <DocScrutinizer05> yeeha, the ETA for copying those 28GB from one place on HDD to another went down from 8h to 1h13 during initial 30min of copy
Aug 03 16:03:56 <vi__> jonwil: the clit mouse?
Aug 03 16:04:12 <vi__> clitmouse is pro
Aug 03 16:04:24 <RST38h> kerio: with healthy fingertips, no?
Aug 03 16:04:33 <vi__> kerio: You will need it in about 4-5 months.
Aug 03 16:04:38 <DocScrutinizer05> while a killall aplay on the old PC amazingly froze the whole thing for ~5min, then freed up like 5GB of swap and cured knotify cpu load to 0% from ~50% it was before
Aug 03 16:05:10 <RST38h> jonwil: Most IBM hardware seems to be designed by robots, for robots. You probably have not seen their PC RT and PS/2 mice...
Aug 03 16:05:45 <RST38h> Besides, even current Lenovos always freak me out due to their similarity to old Soviet mainframe hardware
Aug 03 16:06:38 <kerio> vi__: what?
Aug 03 16:07:01 <kerio> RST38h: enigma is the shit
Aug 03 16:07:06 <kerio> and playing it with a joystick is even better
Aug 03 16:08:25 <zeq1> freemangordon: I've discovered an interesting "feature" with -ffast-math. The old pre-c99 isnanf() macros (at least with our glibc) do not work as expected.  I was debugging a hildon-desktop crash with fastmath enabled.  Using the C99 replaceent isnan() works fine.
Aug 03 16:09:02 <zeq1> s/replaceent/replacement/
Aug 03 16:09:02 <Venemo_N9> zeq1, indeed.
Aug 03 16:09:02 <infobot> zeq1 meant: freemangordon: I've discovered an interesting "feature" with -ffast-math. The old pre-c99 isnanf() macros (at least with our glibc) do not work as expected.  I was debugging a hildon-desktop crash with fastmath enabled.  Using the C99 replacement isnan() ...
Aug 03 16:09:15 <vi__> kerio: the screen protector
Aug 03 16:09:50 <DocScrutinizer05> zeq1?isnan(WTF):null
Aug 03 16:11:16 <vi__> kerio: where you looking for an imgur uploader?
Aug 03 16:11:30 <kerio> no, i wasn't
Aug 03 16:11:39 <kerio> ...i did have a problem with microb's file picker though
Aug 03 16:11:42 <DocScrutinizer05> NAME       fpclassify, isfinite, isnormal, isnan, isinf - floating-point (!!!) classification macros
Aug 03 16:11:58 * zeq1 needs to go pack for holiday :)
Aug 03 16:12:12 <kerio> vi__: also yeah
Aug 03 16:12:43 <vi__> kerio: there is a bash script that behaves just like pastebinnit.
Aug 03 16:12:58 <zeq1> DocScrutinizer: fpclassify is the C99 standard 
Aug 03 16:13:23 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf are you doing with float anyway ? ;-)
Aug 03 16:13:35 <zeq1> the isnanf() is obsolete according to the man page
Aug 03 16:13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> float is EVIL!
Aug 03 16:13:45 <zeq1> :)
Aug 03 16:14:53 <vi__> zeq1: turn the computer off now.  back away from the keyboard and go on holiday.
Aug 03 16:15:41 <qwazix> clit mouse ftw :) unless they make all progrmas with command line
Aug 03 16:15:54 <qwazix> s/progrmas/programs/
Aug 03 16:15:55 <infobot> qwazix meant: clit mouse ftw :) unless they make all programs with command line
Aug 03 16:16:03 <qwazix> or sane shortcuts
Aug 03 16:16:44 <qwazix> can't live without it anymore, although I agree there's a pretty steep learning curve
Aug 03 16:21:09 <RST38h> MEANWHILE: Unfortunately for Motorola, the phone still appears to be broadly-rectangular, a shape which we all now know certain corporate residents of Cupertino invented long before Euclid started fooling with geometry.
Aug 03 16:24:08 <ShadowJK> An australian has patent on the wheel, so you can't make circular phones either
Aug 03 16:24:18 <ShadowJK> and apple has also patent on the wedge
Aug 03 16:24:28 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: MUHAHAHA
Aug 03 16:24:29 <ShadowJK> maybe octagonal is still available
Aug 03 16:25:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll patent all roughly potato-shaped cases
Aug 03 16:25:09 <DocScrutinizer05> THEN you're really fscked
Aug 03 16:25:30 <DocScrutinizer05> hell, I'll patent the idea of having a case at all
Aug 03 16:25:57 <vi__> nokia has patent on the 'half frisbee in head'
Aug 03 16:26:22 <vi__> or the n-gage v1 as it was known.
Aug 03 16:27:24 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer; i hope om/etc has patent on caseless ;D
Aug 03 16:27:30 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, 5% aka 20k of files to copy, 90% of those 28GB done
Aug 03 16:28:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: I think OM/sean never bothered about *any* patents
Aug 03 16:28:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Aug 03 16:30:03 <DocScrutinizer05> wow, there were actually 5 (five!) files that conflicted when copying my 28GB of old home over the fresh new home on new laptop
Aug 03 16:33:28 <DocScrutinizer05> now if only the kde session would come up on that user
Aug 03 16:36:38 <qwazix> I'm thinking to order another two N900 back covers and try to transplant the kickstand of the one to the left side of the other so that it has two of themd 
Aug 03 16:37:22 <vi__> qwazix: madness.
Aug 03 16:37:23 <qwazix> it will sit flat on it's back and will be able to be used with stylus when on the table
Aug 03 16:39:30 <qwazix> vi_: but why?? :P
Aug 03 16:40:30 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: right side
Aug 03 16:40:56 <DocScrutinizer05> left side is the camera and existing stand
Aug 03 16:40:58 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer: left side as you look at the back cover
Aug 03 16:41:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I do what? I never do that ;-P
Aug 03 16:41:14 <qwazix> right side as you hold it
Aug 03 16:41:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
Aug 03 16:42:31 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer: you don't take self photos for faceshit?
Aug 03 16:42:47 <kerio> qwazix: wait for estel's super duper aluminium cases
Aug 03 16:43:22 <DocScrutinizer05> "the following problem been detected while trying to start KDE: no write access to .ICEauthority" :-/
Aug 03 16:44:07 * DocScrutinizer05 curses user-name/numID duality of *nix
Aug 03 16:44:20 <qwazix> kerio: yeah, might be better...
Aug 03 16:49:15 <Tofe> plop
Aug 03 16:52:19 <DocScrutinizer05> superduper alu case will have superduper antenna fake/fsckup
Aug 03 16:52:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: :c
Aug 03 16:52:51 <kerio> the iphone 4s has a partially metallic case!
Aug 03 16:53:04 <DocScrutinizer05> or comes with "how to hold it right" instuctions just like iPhone ;-P
Aug 03 16:53:57 <DocScrutinizer05> and no way a one man amateur enterprise will build anything as sophisticated as that iPhone's integrated antenna design
Aug 03 16:54:19 <SpeedEvil> Evolution!
Aug 03 16:54:42 <SpeedEvil> Make a 3d printer that can do wire as well as plastic, print a dozen random candidates, and automatically measure them.
Aug 03 16:54:45 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i just want to see if he'll actually make a case that can hold two 18650s
Aug 03 16:55:33 <kerio> it will be glorious
Aug 03 16:55:45 <kerio> besides, the placement of the stock antenna is awful
Aug 03 16:56:23 <DocScrutinizer05> friggin line find . -user jr -exec chown -v jr2 {} \;  takes forever, with 28GB aka 500k files
Aug 03 16:56:37 <DocScrutinizer05> will restart it without -v
Aug 03 16:57:47 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: you can make it slightly faster by xargsing it
Aug 03 16:58:00 <DocScrutinizer05> sure about that?
Aug 03 16:58:16 <kerio> can't you configure xargs to run the same program with multiple arguments?
Aug 03 16:58:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I bet you can
Aug 03 16:58:56 <DocScrutinizer05> which probably actually would speed up things a bit
Aug 03 16:59:13 <DocScrutinizer05> though, chown is in cache already
Aug 03 17:00:08 <DocScrutinizer05> well, nuttin a pair of 2GHz cores wouldn't cut through in minutes, eh?
Aug 03 17:00:24 <DocScrutinizer05> done
Aug 03 17:01:06 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05: what's the -v switch?
Aug 03 17:01:41 <DocScrutinizer05> verbose
Aug 03 17:01:49 <DocScrutinizer05> diagnostic output
Aug 03 17:01:58 <qwazix> naturally
Aug 03 17:02:08 * qwazix feels stupid
Aug 03 17:03:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and (dummdummdumm) here it is: KDE4 with old home - finally
Aug 03 17:04:20 <qwazix> how's KDE4 speed-wise?
Aug 03 17:06:28 <DocScrutinizer05> shit
Aug 03 17:06:39 <DocScrutinizer05> except for segv
Aug 03 17:06:48 <DocScrutinizer05> that's pretty fast and frequent
Aug 03 17:07:11 <zeq1> just rebuilt transmission for thumb, saved over half a megabyte! Now I wonder if it will finally be usable..?
Aug 03 17:07:54 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course NONE of my settings from KDE4(!) of old laptop made it to KDE4 of that new user on new laptop where I copied the whole friggin 28GB of $HOME to
Aug 03 17:11:48 <kerio> zeq1: half a mb doesn't sound like a lot
Aug 03 17:11:49 <vi__> zeq1: Unlikely.
Aug 03 17:12:05 <vi__> zeq1: go on yhour damn holiday allready!
Aug 03 17:12:29 <vi__> zeq1: rtorrent on the other hands runs like a champ.
Aug 03 17:13:05 <vi__> ...but it does not suppory magnet links.
Aug 03 17:16:55 <DocScrutinizer05> lovely how two concurrent irc clients kick each other mutually :-P
Aug 03 17:17:51 <zeq1> vi_: just about ready to leave :)
Aug 03 17:25:37 <zeq1> vi_: deluge is my client of choice. I run the daemon on my server and have a nice native gtk client or web interface.
Aug 03 17:25:53 <zeq1> just need to port it...
Aug 03 17:28:19 <kerio> zeq1: >:(
Aug 03 17:28:26 <kerio> transmission-daemon!
Aug 03 17:31:00 <zeq1> kerio: yes, I know... but I like deluge :)
Aug 03 17:35:06 <DocScrutinizer05> zeq1: if you need a temporary kickban not to miss your airplane or whatever, don't hesitate to ask ;-D
Aug 03 17:36:29 <DocScrutinizer05> (this *sometimes* has worked for MohammadAG ;-D )
Aug 03 17:38:03 <zeq1> that's ok DocScrutinizer05, gf is driving :)
Aug 03 17:38:18 <DocScrutinizer05> aaaah X-D
Aug 03 17:39:38 <DocScrutinizer05> "this female voice of your navi made me angry, so I drove left when she said 'right' "
Aug 03 17:40:12 <qwazix> just "ported" pyroom to N900
Aug 03 17:40:33 <DocScrutinizer05> pyroom sounds like a very tasty mushroom
Aug 03 17:41:06 <qwazix> downloaded tar, changed 1 line, commented 3 and modified preferences to use more screen
Aug 03 17:41:18 <qwazix> it's a text editor
Aug 03 17:41:48 <FIQ|n900> qwazix: sounds like hard work
Aug 03 17:45:20 <DocScrutinizer05> javispedro: moinmoin!
Aug 03 17:45:34 <javispedro> hi
Aug 03 17:46:21 * DocScrutinizer05 just noticed join-notification in his 'ported' DocScrutinizer client in 2nd KDE session
Aug 03 17:47:12 <javispedro> using KDE now? :)
Aug 03 17:47:47 <DocScrutinizer05> since KDE0.8
Aug 03 17:48:07 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually I tried gnome for... like 6h
Aug 03 17:48:31 <Venemo_N9> lol
Aug 03 17:48:43 <qwazix> FIQ|n900: yeah, wonder if it's possible to package for extras devel on the N900 itself
Aug 03 17:49:18 <DocScrutinizer05> thought "WTF, my win98 is more configurable than this. Nicer too" and switched system back to KDE2
Aug 03 17:50:28 <FIQ|n900> :P
Aug 03 17:51:24 <DocScrutinizer05> javispedro: nah, I just finally tried to complete the migration of my old KDE4 setup from that esprimo crap to my new lenovo t500, by copying 28GB of $home
Aug 03 17:51:59 <DocScrutinizer05> now I got 2 KDE sessions running on t500, this one and the 'old' one with DocScrutinizer xchat
Aug 03 17:53:06 <javispedro> one of the nice thinkpads
Aug 03 17:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, after removing the redrubbernub
Aug 03 17:53:59 <DocScrutinizer05> that otherwise blocks b g h keys
Aug 03 17:54:02 <javispedro> I know people that _like_ that :P
Aug 03 17:54:13 <vi__> WTS:1xN950. Serious offers only.
Aug 03 17:54:15 <DocScrutinizer05> perverts ;-P
Aug 03 17:54:16 <javispedro> wouldn't use it in a thousand years
Aug 03 17:54:27 <vi__> I llike the rubber nub.
Aug 03 17:54:41 <javispedro> vi__: so the $2000 got into you, eh?
Aug 03 17:54:48 <vi__> no.
Aug 03 17:54:52 <vi__> aegis.
Aug 03 17:55:11 <javispedro> my n950 has no aegis =)
Aug 03 17:55:19 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Aug 03 17:55:23 <vi__> They castrated my favourite OS.
Aug 03 17:55:34 * DocScrutinizer05 heard vi__falling off the chair
Aug 03 17:56:06 <vi__> Its the little things.
Aug 03 17:56:32 <vi__> Like why does /bin/sh flat out ignore my .profile?
Aug 03 17:56:43 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed, like the whole OS not made for a device with hw kbd for example
Aug 03 17:57:03 <vi__> fuck harmattan.
Aug 03 17:57:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ACK
Aug 03 17:57:34 <DocScrutinizer05> no more fun in that one
Aug 03 17:57:46 <DocScrutinizer05> for me
Aug 03 17:57:52 <vi__> ~seen slopotanmus
Aug 03 17:57:56 <infobot> i haven't seen 'slopotanmus', vi__
Aug 03 17:57:59 <vi__> ~seen slopotanus
Aug 03 17:58:00 <infobot> i haven't seen 'slopotanus', vi__
Aug 03 17:58:05 <vi__> ~seen slopatonus
Aug 03 17:58:06 <infobot> i haven't seen 'slopatonus', vi__
Aug 03 17:58:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen slopotonamus
Aug 03 17:58:11 <infobot> i haven't seen 'slopotonamus', DocScrutinizer05
Aug 03 17:58:18 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Aug 03 17:58:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ~uselss
Aug 03 17:58:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~useless
Aug 03 17:58:40 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(
Aug 03 17:58:50 <javispedro> ~seen slonopotamus
Aug 03 17:58:51 <infobot> slonopotamus <~slonopota@176.57.72.72> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 66d 22h 57m 39s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun'.
Aug 03 17:59:01 <DocScrutinizer05> ~learn seen for wildcards!
Aug 03 17:59:06 <vi__>  'DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun'
Aug 03 17:59:47 <vi__> ~seen a naked woman
Aug 03 17:59:50 <infobot> i haven't seen 'a naked woman', vi__
Aug 03 18:00:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ~liar
Aug 03 18:00:06 <vi__> ~man woman
Aug 03 18:00:06 <infobot> liar is, like, me
Aug 03 18:00:08 <infobot> No manual entry for woman
Aug 03 18:00:13 <Tofe> :D
Aug 03 18:00:29 <vi__> I think that is funny.
Aug 03 18:00:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ~attack vi__
Aug 03 18:00:31 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing vi__
Aug 03 18:00:58 <Tofe> infobot is a "she" ?
Aug 03 18:01:27 <Tofe> ~gender infobot
Aug 03 18:01:28 <infobot> I heard infobot is sexless.
Aug 03 18:01:29 <javispedro> depends on the hour of day
Aug 03 18:01:37 <Tofe> I see...
Aug 03 18:01:42 <vi__> as close to a 'she' that you get on the internet.
Aug 03 18:01:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rape Tofe
Aug 03 18:01:44 * infobot takes Tofe behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams
Aug 03 18:02:12 <Tofe> Ah ! Romance...
Aug 03 18:02:14 <DocScrutinizer05> quite tacky ;-)
Aug 03 18:02:57 <vi__> also it turms out I like motorbikes more than computers.
Aug 03 18:03:07 <DocScrutinizer05> well, for me it's usually "she"
Aug 03 18:03:57 <javispedro> vi__: mid life crisis?
Aug 03 18:04:09 <Tofe> vi__: well, you don't crash a motorbike very often, usually the first is the good one
Aug 03 18:04:12 <DocScrutinizer05> if only to pollish our terrible gender ratio here
Aug 03 18:05:17 <DocScrutinizer05> so loving motorbikes more sounds like end-live crisis X-P
Aug 03 18:05:21 <vi__> javispedro: a bit early!
Aug 03 18:05:36 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: you mean murdercycles?
Aug 03 18:05:43 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Aug 03 18:05:44 <kerio> vi__: or maybe your life is unusually short
Aug 03 18:06:10 <vi__> kerio: everyones life is short.
Aug 03 18:06:50 <kerio> a midlife crisis in your 40s implies you'll live to 80
Aug 03 18:06:52 <DocScrutinizer05> my friend and neighbour and landlord starts a massive attack with smoke and fire in the garden in front of my kitchen window
Aug 03 18:06:58 <kerio> a midlife crisis in your 20s implies you'll live to 40
Aug 03 18:07:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I should go down and steal his BBQ
Aug 03 18:07:22 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Aug 03 18:07:50 <vi__> Woody14619: yo
Aug 03 18:08:03 * zeq1 is on the road
Aug 03 18:08:05 <vi__> Anyway, the offer stands.
Aug 03 18:08:27 <vi__> zeq1: and on the internet at the same time??? what is this wichcraft?
Aug 03 18:08:48 <Woody14619> and sd69... Council meeting time. :)
Aug 03 18:09:26 <vi__> Woody14619: where?
Aug 03 18:09:36 <Woody14619> #maemo-meetig
Aug 03 18:09:39 <Woody14619> #maemo-meeting that is
Aug 03 18:09:41 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, reminds me to read up backlog chanlogs of yesterday
Aug 03 18:10:01 <javispedro> http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/12/q3/e23/Pic-1.png
Aug 03 18:10:17 <javispedro> ^^ what happens when you let your ACLs loose!
Aug 03 18:11:04 <javispedro> fun thing is that, apart from renaming $USER to "Everyone", I think there's at least one valid way to make windows show that :)
Aug 03 18:12:21 <Tofe> Ok, I give up with DBus. There won't be any status icon right now. Grrr !
Aug 03 18:16:54 <Tofe> oh, but wait... maybe I should actually use the system bus. Sounds quite reasonable -- if not necessary -- for a daemon.
Aug 03 19:23:50 <teotwaki_> Reflection in C++, didn't think it'd ever be possible. Luckily, I was wrong.
Aug 03 19:25:45 <javispedro> teotwaki_: are you talking about qt or cxx2012?
Aug 03 19:26:01 <javispedro> *2011
Aug 03 19:26:25 <jonwil> I recon QT is the nicest UI toolkit I have ever used :)
Aug 03 19:26:27 <teotwaki_> Neither.
Aug 03 19:26:34 <teotwaki_> javispedro: http://kifri.fri.uniza.sk/~chochlik/mirror-lib/html/
Aug 03 19:26:43 <jonwil> better than gtk and better than the Windows API
Aug 03 19:27:11 <teotwaki_> jonwil: not really difficult on both accounts.
Aug 03 19:27:17 <javispedro> teotwaki_: cxx2011 then ;) "... should be usable with any compiler implementing the C++11 features"
Aug 03 19:27:35 <teotwaki_> javispedro: It's not actually C++11 based.
Aug 03 19:28:08 <teotwaki_> javispedro: It just his implementation leverages some C++11 features, though, to be honest, it's C++0x he implements, not C++11. Initially, it was written on C++03, but he did a rewrite.
Aug 03 19:28:57 <javispedro> I assume it's like what qt does, with some external parser
Aug 03 19:29:41 <teotwaki_> except that Qt only provides introspection at best, no reflection. Also, Qt requires meta annotations littered in the source code, which this doesn't require.
Aug 03 19:31:12 <javispedro> teotwaki_: I think it does, what do you understand by reflection anyway?
Aug 03 19:32:35 <teotwaki_> javispedro: introspection is when you're able to deduce type information, in a generic fashion. For example Object & object = get<Foo>(); object.hasProperty("bar");
Aug 03 19:33:26 <teotwaki_> reflection is the ability to modify the values, meta-data, properties and functions of a type at run-time, or compile-time in the case of compile-time reflection.
Aug 03 19:36:38 <javispedro> ok, so I stopped at changing values and executing functions :)
Aug 03 20:18:52 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF with infobot??
Aug 03 20:19:14 <DocScrutinizer05> another netspilt, another downtime?
Aug 03 20:35:39 <kerio> infobot: hi!
Aug 03 20:35:41 <infobot> hi
Aug 03 20:35:45 <kerio> awwww :3
Aug 03 20:36:29 <kerio> does anyone know if there's a way to disable the accelerometer in enigma?
Aug 03 20:47:28 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: what's the fastest way to drain the battery?
Aug 03 20:54:09 <kerio> ~bq24200.sh
Aug 03 20:54:12 <kerio> hm
Aug 03 21:00:05 <kerio> ShadowJK_: do you have your bq24200.sh script somewhere?
Aug 03 21:00:12 <kerio> i mean, hosted
Aug 03 21:00:44 <ShadowJK_> http://enivax.net/jk/n900/ ?
Aug 03 21:01:49 <kerio> well i didn't know about that :)
Aug 03 21:01:54 <kerio> ty
Aug 03 21:02:35 <kerio> is it in a factoid?
Aug 03 21:03:06 <ShadowJK_> no
Aug 03 21:03:08 <ShadowJK_> nafaik
Aug 03 21:03:50 <kerio> should it be? are you against it?
Aug 03 21:04:23 <ShadowJK_> I just never considered any of that stuff fit for general use by the general public
Aug 03 21:05:53 <kerio> k
Aug 03 21:08:15 <ShadowJK_> The advantage of people having to ask me where it is, is that when they 5 minutes later are full of questions I'm hopefully still around to answer :P
Aug 03 21:08:55 <kerio> hehe
Aug 03 21:09:08 <kerio> nah, just trying to calibrate the chip for my battery
Aug 03 21:09:40 <kerio> i'm trying to discharge it as fast as i can, gps enabled, screen at max brightness and 3g with crappy reception
Aug 03 21:09:53 <kerio> so i can go to sleep kinda early
Aug 03 21:09:55 <kerio> :D
Aug 03 21:11:26 <SpeedEvil> flashlight
Aug 03 21:14:19 <r00t^home> short-circuit
Aug 03 21:16:41 * kerio has no idea how to remove the body part of an otterbox
Aug 03 21:17:47 <ShadowJK_> also, in an x-terminal: while true; do A=0; done
Aug 03 21:17:52 <ShadowJK_> for extra cpu use
Aug 03 21:19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: huh? fastest way to drain the battery? you're kidding me?
Aug 03 21:19:54 <kerio> well, to use it
Aug 03 21:20:17 <kerio> :)
Aug 03 21:20:28 <kerio> i really hope i can charge it afterwards :/
Aug 03 21:20:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh you're serious
Aug 03 21:20:55 <ShadowJK_> I've had some issues charging from near empty with "weak" powersources
Aug 03 21:21:12 <kerio> i'm using the wallcharger
Aug 03 21:21:16 <ShadowJK_> lol, I've been doing "discharge quickly" all week for benchmarks
Aug 03 21:21:18 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i'm calibrating!
Aug 03 21:21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: increase power comsumption to max ;-P
Aug 03 21:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> backlight to max
Aug 03 21:21:38 <kerio> that's what i'm doing
Aug 03 21:21:47 <kerio> but i'm kinda sleepy!
Aug 03 21:21:47 <DocScrutinizer05> speakers at max volume
Aug 03 21:22:01 <DocScrutinizer05> vibrator to 100%
Aug 03 21:22:09 <kerio> naughty
Aug 03 21:22:25 <DocScrutinizer05> aaaaand of course send lots and lots of data out via 3G
Aug 03 21:22:36 <kerio> out?
Aug 03 21:22:50 <DocScrutinizer05> then play some video so the gfxaccel has something to do
Aug 03 21:22:57 <ShadowJK_> I keep a ping going, load google.com (triggers 3.5g). The ping keeps it in 3.5g
Aug 03 21:23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> out as in "to the internets"
Aug 03 21:23:28 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, that's possibly futile as it just receives data
Aug 03 21:23:48 <kerio> it also sends data!
Aug 03 21:23:55 <kerio> icmp echo requests!
Aug 03 21:24:30 <DocScrutinizer05> max TX consumption with DATA OUT plus concurrent phonecall (place phone to a speaker so it has some 'voice' to send out)
Aug 03 21:25:31 <DocScrutinizer05> same with wifi (though those are max 100mW while WCDMA are 2ish Watts)
Aug 03 21:26:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and yeah, place your device also into a tin box, so it has to ramp up TX power all the way to reach BTS/eNodeB
Aug 03 21:27:04 <DocScrutinizer05> as otherwise your 3G still might use less than WLAN
Aug 03 21:27:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P only if you're extremely lucky
Aug 03 21:27:33 <kerio> tin box = my house and my hand
Aug 03 21:27:34 <DocScrutinizer05> don't forget torch/flashlight
Aug 03 21:27:38 <DocScrutinizer05> and camera
Aug 03 21:27:43 <kerio> ok, i'm just going to irc
Aug 03 21:27:53 <kerio> with max backlight
Aug 03 21:28:03 <ShadowJK_> Considering my ping time goes down below that of which my HSDPA-only phone gets in HSDPA mode, I think both HSDPA and HSUPA get activated on my N900, and in that mode powerconsumption doesn't change significantly with transfer rate IME
Aug 03 21:28:03 <DocScrutinizer05> (the cam IF sucks quite a lot)
Aug 03 21:28:29 <DocScrutinizer05> then enable boostmode and feed your 200mA max load to a convenient sink
Aug 03 21:28:50 <DocScrutinizer05> hell, 200mA*5V are another whole Watt
Aug 03 21:29:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK_: I'm not expert enough to evaluate the WCDMA power consumption for different upstream data sitations
Aug 03 21:30:09 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil did empiric tests though
Aug 03 21:31:00 <DocScrutinizer05> seems you can get another 300mA load on battery with upload, on unknown OTA signal situations though
Aug 03 21:31:45 <ShadowJK_> possibly
Aug 03 21:31:47 <DocScrutinizer05> 0.3 * 4 sounds sane though for WCDMA TX
Aug 03 21:32:09 <ShadowJK_> But I can get up to 1A by shading it :P
Aug 03 21:32:13 <kerio> wifi adhoc?
Aug 03 21:32:14 <DocScrutinizer05> might be up to 0.5 or even 1A in extreme cases
Aug 03 21:32:15 <kerio> er
Aug 03 21:32:22 <ShadowJK_> at 9km distance from tower
Aug 03 21:32:23 <kerio> what's the opposite of adhoc?
Aug 03 21:32:36 <DocScrutinizer05> sometime anywhere
Aug 03 21:34:38 <DocScrutinizer05> or did you mean infrastructure mode
Aug 03 21:35:01 <kerio> i did
Aug 03 21:35:09 <kerio> that has no powersaving
Aug 03 21:35:44 <DocScrutinizer05> infra mode has powersaving 
Aug 03 21:35:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ad hoc doesn't
Aug 03 21:36:04 <kerio> what's the one without an AP?
Aug 03 21:36:13 <DocScrutinizer05> adhoc
Aug 03 21:36:20 <kerio> that one
Aug 03 21:36:35 <kerio> by the way, is there a way to do hostap on the n900?
Aug 03 21:36:51 <DocScrutinizer05> allegedly not, the chip forbids
Aug 03 21:37:25 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why hotspot and joghurt use adhoc fake AP mode
Aug 03 21:37:34 * kerio shakes his fist at the chip
Aug 03 21:37:50 <kerio> joghurt?
Aug 03 21:38:41 <ShadowJK_> joikuspot
Aug 03 21:39:05 <DocScrutinizer05> joghurt sport
Aug 03 21:40:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.giffits.de/ritter-sport-mini-joghurt-werbeartikel-74502.htm
Aug 03 21:41:48 <ShadowJK_> ritter is bad
Aug 03 21:42:00 <ShadowJK_> my 14 year old german cousin agrees with me
Aug 03 21:42:08 <kerio> omnomnom
Aug 03 21:42:56 <DocScrutinizer05> so is joikuspot
Aug 03 21:44:09 <DocScrutinizer05> a botch invented to ship around the fact that sybian doesn't support any proper networking, and then the whole shite ported to linux which actually _has_ proper networking (though not in stock kernel) - and YET they need their own kernel module afaik
Aug 03 21:45:06 <ShadowJK_> Yeah they're using their own kernel module to do generic packet injection into the stack, I think
Aug 03 21:45:25 <DocScrutinizer05> that's like inventing aqualung for mokeys transported in aquarium
Aug 03 21:45:32 <kerio> dafuq
Aug 03 21:45:48 <kerio> clearly cssu needs to stop that madness! /s
Aug 03 21:45:59 <ShadowJK_> Speaking of wtfness. I acquired an android tablet
Aug 03 21:46:36 <ShadowJK_> The powersaving is silly. All the clock widgets, including the "system status bar" one, were frozen for 3 days and didn't update. lol
Aug 03 21:47:04 <ShadowJK_> I was playing GTA3 and almost got late for work because the clock was frozen
Aug 03 21:47:21 <kerio> haha
Aug 03 21:47:27 <kerio> sure, blame it on android
Aug 03 21:47:33 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf of the week from my professional domain: a high-prio process spinning in a busy loop waiting for a low-prio process freeing up resources
Aug 03 21:48:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and no, this system won't do fair scheduling or anything like that
Aug 03 21:49:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK_: watch same frozenness on N810
Aug 03 21:49:13 <ShadowJK_> Never seen it on N810
Aug 03 21:49:23 <DocScrutinizer05> the systray clock only updates when you touch the screen
Aug 03 21:49:43 <ShadowJK_> Like, under heavy system load, when unlocking screen, it shows stale info, but once system load clears up it updates?
Aug 03 21:49:44 <DocScrutinizer05> as do any widgets
Aug 03 21:49:54 <ShadowJK_> Not for me?
Aug 03 21:50:02 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, zarro system load
Aug 03 21:50:12 <DocScrutinizer05> just idling with screen never fading
Aug 03 21:50:19 <ShadowJK_> Never seen that
Aug 03 21:50:36 <ShadowJK_> Except with foreca weather app that only updates when you establish network connection
Aug 03 21:52:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, but then maybe you never had a chance to notice
Aug 03 21:52:55 <DocScrutinizer05> will your screen stay on while on charger?
Aug 03 21:53:20 <DocScrutinizer05> as that's the only situations where you can watch it
Aug 03 21:54:15 <ShadowJK_> no screen is off during charge
Aug 03 21:55:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm just trying to reproduce it, seems plain homescreen on while charging isn't sufficient
Aug 03 21:56:34 <DocScrutinizer05> no screen, or 'no, screen is..'
Aug 03 22:00:01 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, seems a more tricky screwed case where the display of time just stalls - I'm definitely sure I've seen this 100s of times now, but now I can't reproduce it
Aug 03 22:05:08 <FIQ|n900> screen can be configured to turn off during charge or never turn off
Aug 03 22:05:43 <kerio> hm, apparently calibrating without bme is easy
Aug 03 22:06:23 <ShadowJK_> sure, bme shuts down before calibration threshold is reached
Aug 03 22:06:44 <kerio> ShadowJK_: well, not exactly
Aug 03 22:06:51 <ShadowJK_> I usually try to hit the calibration voltage at 300-400mA load, becauese that kinda represents typical load
Aug 03 22:07:10 <kerio> bme will shut down at 3198, calibration is 15 seconds below 3248
Aug 03 22:07:18 <ShadowJK_> Well, sometimes it shuts down before, sometimes shutdown takes so long that power is consumed long enough to bring it below 3248 for long enough
Aug 03 22:07:28 <kerio> hehe
Aug 03 22:08:04 <kerio> meh, i have to bring it down from the resetted 2042mAh to a nokia BL-5J
Aug 03 22:08:10 <kerio> it'll probably take a couple of cycles
Aug 03 22:08:33 <ShadowJK_> iirc the 3198 threshold is without hald-addon-bme? I.e. bme will judge that userspace has failed to execute safe shutdown, and will do its own forceful shutdown at 3198-ish?
Aug 03 22:08:45 <kerio> \_o_/
Aug 03 22:08:45 <ShadowJK_> do you want a shortcut?
Aug 03 22:08:46 <kerio> fukken bme
Aug 03 22:08:51 <kerio> which shortcut?
Aug 03 22:08:56 <ShadowJK_> one cycle
Aug 03 22:08:57 <kerio> i just stopped it
Aug 03 22:09:01 <kerio> ooh, neat
Aug 03 22:09:03 <kerio> but no
Aug 03 22:09:05 <kerio> don't care *that* much
Aug 03 22:09:15 <kerio> besides, i'm still using the standard battery indicator
Aug 03 22:09:23 <kerio> how would i do that?
Aug 03 22:10:36 <ShadowJK_> it's in the DANGEROUS folder anyways. write_ar and transfer ar to nac scripts. Edit AR to your best guess of battery capacity, execute. Charge fully, disconnect charger, immediately execute second script. Then do discharge to empty calibration cycle.
Aug 03 22:10:48 <ShadowJK_> Must absolutely be done without bme, without battery kernel modules, etc etc
Aug 03 22:11:20 <ShadowJK_> Though you can use bme to do "charge fully" if you want, but after that it must be stopped
Aug 03 22:11:20 <kerio> ShadowJK_: meh, i could consider it if i eventually move to a bigass battery
Aug 03 22:11:27 <ShadowJK_> yeah
Aug 03 22:13:38 <kerio> meh
Aug 03 22:13:45 <kerio> last measured discharge is 1700mAh
Aug 03 22:13:54 <kerio> no way this crappy bl-5j is 1700mAh
Aug 03 22:14:28 <kerio> ShadowJK_: :c
Aug 03 22:14:30 <kerio> i'm sad
Aug 03 22:14:45 <ShadowJK_> Single learning cycle does 1/6th step at most :)
Aug 03 22:15:35 <kerio> does this mean that it's actually worth it to reset the chip if you move to a big battery, because it resets at 2400mAh?
Aug 03 22:15:49 <ShadowJK_> probably
Aug 03 22:15:56 <ShadowJK_> or use my "shortcut"
Aug 03 22:16:14 <ShadowJK_> I reset when changing batteries anyway, to reset cycle counters
Aug 03 22:17:17 <kerio> how do you reset it?
Aug 03 22:17:26 <kerio> remove battery, wait for bupbat to fail, put battery in?
Aug 03 22:17:43 <ShadowJK_> bupbat isn't connected
Aug 03 22:17:57 <ShadowJK_> No I use i2cset to send reset command :P
Aug 03 22:21:56 <kerio> i see
Aug 03 22:22:01 <kerio> wtf, bme thinks my phone is charging
Aug 03 22:22:04 <kerio> even when it isn't
Aug 03 22:22:08 <kerio> :s
Aug 03 22:22:10 <kerio> fukken BME
Aug 03 22:22:23 <kerio> and fukken hald-addon-bme, i suppose
Aug 03 22:23:20 <kerio> oh god, it's in ACT_DEAD mode with no charger
Aug 03 22:23:44 <kerio> oh, phew, it turned off
Aug 03 22:26:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK_: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20120804_001.jpg
Aug 03 22:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry for the blurr
Aug 03 22:27:20 <ShadowJK_> wow
Aug 03 22:27:25 <ShadowJK_> but the widget updated? :)
Aug 03 22:27:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Aug 03 22:27:41 <ShadowJK_> and the statusbar thing that i dont even have, didnt
Aug 03 22:27:50 <kerio> ShadowJK_: how do i kick bme in the head enough for it to start working again without rebooting?
Aug 03 22:28:35 <DocScrutinizer05> the whole statusbar seems frozen
Aug 03 22:29:11 <DocScrutinizer05> stop bme; start bme; stop bme; start bme;
Aug 03 22:29:54 <DocScrutinizer05> actually hald-addon-bme re-establishes the IPC afaik
Aug 03 22:30:11 <ShadowJK_> dunno, i dont really use bme
Aug 03 22:30:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and bme itself will open the i2c device to talk to the chips
Aug 03 22:31:08 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i tried that
Aug 03 22:31:13 <kerio> it still thought it was charging
Aug 03 22:31:17 <DocScrutinizer05> what do you mean by "start working again"?
Aug 03 22:31:36 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: correctly report nothing plugged in as "not charging"
Aug 03 22:31:58 <DocScrutinizer05> umm, plug and unplug something
Aug 03 22:32:18 <DocScrutinizer05> start booston for a second, then ^C
Aug 03 22:32:54 <kerio> hm, i could've tried hostmode, i suppose
Aug 03 22:33:05 <kerio> the problem was hald-addon-bme i think
Aug 03 22:33:19 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Aug 03 22:33:39 <DocScrutinizer05> it takes a while til IPC gets re-established afaik
Aug 03 22:33:51 <DocScrutinizer05> only tries once per minute or so
Aug 03 22:34:06 <DocScrutinizer05> lshal might help
Aug 03 22:34:14 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno
Aug 03 22:34:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I frequently wonder who and why shuts down screen-BL when you start bme
Aug 03 22:35:08 <DocScrutinizer05> rather idiotic
Aug 03 23:08:17 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon	Estel_: please, hold on for a while	22:10
Aug 03 23:08:19 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_	no problem	22:11
Aug 03 23:08:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_
Aug 03 23:08:22 <DocScrutinizer05> 	and I think that it's worth to use full potential where applicable, instead of going lazy and minimalistic, just for sake of it.
Aug 03 23:08:23 <DocScrutinizer05> 22:16
Aug 03 23:12:03 <DocScrutinizer05> and another one: Estel_	merlin1991, let me rephrase it - kp exist, because omap1 is not enough for 99,99% of users
Aug 03 23:12:48 <DocScrutinizer05> estel_ esists because otherwise 99.99% of aspirin would never get sold
Aug 03 23:14:59 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq estel, if you're eager to use KP, so fucking just DO IT, don't pretend you hafe to fight for something in the name of 99.99% of other users who as well can just use KP if they feel like they need it!
Aug 03 23:15:14 <DocScrutinizer05> s/hafe/have/
Aug 03 23:15:16 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: dafaq estel, if you're eager to use KP, so fucking just DO IT, don't pretend you have to fight for something in the name of 99.99% of other users who as well can just use KP if they feel like they need it!
Aug 03 23:41:59 <SpeedEvil> The above tests were with good signal, though maybe 3km from the antenna
Aug 03 23:57:11 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: makes sense with those 0.3A
Aug 03 23:58:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess that tower is made to cover a large diameter area
Aug 03 23:59:25 <DocScrutinizer05> i.e. it's high enough to have good line of sight to your position
Aug 03 23:59:43 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: can uboot be made to explicitly turn on the lcd backlight on start?
Aug 03 23:59:54 <DocScrutinizer05> umm yep
Aug 04 00:00:03 <DocScrutinizer05> basicaly why not
Aug 04 00:00:11 <jon_y> cool, so feature request? :)
Aug 04 00:00:29 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess the _real_uBoot_ already has a command for that
Aug 04 00:00:47 <jon_y> I find it hard to debug sometimes when the back light does not turn on after a too fast reboot
Aug 04 00:00:51 <jon_y> not sure why its off
Aug 04 00:01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> however, since during uBoot probably charging isn't enabled at all, you may ponder twice if you want to increase battery load by backlight
Aug 04 00:01:43 <jon_y> hmm, good point
Aug 04 00:02:20 * DocScrutinizer05 finally off to mobile_mode for a beer
Aug 04 00:02:32 <jon_y> I guess I can leave the phone off while charging
Aug 04 00:02:45 <jon_y> and then attempt to boot it after battery is chareged a bit
Aug 04 00:03:05 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no such thing like 'off' while charging
Aug 04 00:03:16 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a thing called act_dead though
Aug 04 00:03:40 <jon_y> the mode when you power off the phone from the menu?
Aug 04 00:03:45 <DocScrutinizer05> which basically is just another init runlevel
Aug 04 00:04:07 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it enters act_dead as soon as you plug in the charger
Aug 04 00:04:12 <DocScrutinizer05> when it been off
Aug 04 00:04:42 <jon_y> so if battery is dead and I insert a fresh battery, what happens there?
Aug 04 00:04:55 <DocScrutinizer05> it boots up way beyond stage of uBoot
Aug 04 00:05:09 <jon_y> ah ok, normal boot up
Aug 04 00:05:34 <jon_y> so act_dead is the closest thing to a switched off n900?
Aug 04 00:05:35 <DocScrutinizer05> err, sorry. what do you mean by "insert new battery"? what shall happen?
Aug 04 00:05:58 <jon_y> I was wondering if it really boots up into some init level to wait for the battery charger
Aug 04 00:06:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, basically act_dead is closest thing to switched off N900 whenever you got any charging device attached to USB. Still act_dead is way more close to a fully booted and running device than to a off device
Aug 04 00:07:10 <jon_y> ok, act_dead is handled by nolo?
Aug 04 00:07:19 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it's not waiting for charger, the charger actually switches on the device
Aug 04 00:07:31 <jon_y> ah ok, good to know
Aug 04 00:07:51 <DocScrutinizer05> off without charger actually is off
Aug 04 00:08:17 <DocScrutinizer05> with charger attached though the device is either on with display, or on without display aka act_dead
Aug 04 00:08:18 <jon_y> if nolo is handling act_dead, might be fine for uboot to always on the backlight
Aug 04 00:08:49 <DocScrutinizer05> no, act_dead is a linux runlevel
Aug 04 00:08:58 <DocScrutinizer05> sth like init 2 or sth
Aug 04 00:09:16 <jon_y> oh
Aug 04 00:09:34 <DocScrutinizer05> you could even have the device update via WLAN while "off" and charging
Aug 04 00:09:48 <DocScrutinizer05> see /etc/mce/mce.ini
Aug 04 00:09:52 <jon_y> how does it enter act_dead before uboot loads the kernel?
Aug 04 00:09:56 <jon_y> sounds magic
Aug 04 00:10:02 <DocScrutinizer05> it doesn't
Aug 04 00:10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> NOLO hands some bootreason up to kernel
Aug 04 00:10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> kernel decides whether to enter act_dead or rather do "normal" bootup to init 3
Aug 04 00:11:25 <jon_y> hmm
Aug 04 00:12:32 <DocScrutinizer05> the only situation where charger won't boot right into linux is flatbatrecover
Aug 04 00:13:06 <jon_y> so, the kernel is actually loaded when the charger is plugged in, and that's before uboot
Aug 04 00:13:12 <DocScrutinizer05> you can tell from steady amber (the slowly flashing amber LED is already made by software controlling the LP5523 chip)
Aug 04 00:13:29 <DocScrutinizer05> no, that's abfter uBoot
Aug 04 00:13:50 <jon_y> ok, I tend to associate uboot with the kernel selector menu, am I wrong?
Aug 04 00:14:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the sequence is ROMBL->xloader->NOLO->(uboot->)linuxkernel
Aug 04 00:14:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and linuxkernel then starts charging
Aug 04 00:14:44 <jon_y> ah so the uboot payload kernel is in control then?
Aug 04 00:14:55 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Aug 04 00:15:06 <jon_y> that explains a lot
Aug 04 00:15:48 <jon_y> explicit backlight on when keyboad slider is out then? :)
Aug 04 00:15:58 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds ane
Aug 04 00:16:00 <DocScrutinizer05> sane*
Aug 04 00:16:29 <jon_y> when does pali come in usually?
Aug 04 00:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> that doesn't show any regular schedule
Aug 04 00:17:27 <jon_y> ok, I'll forward the request about uboot when I see him
Aug 04 00:18:09 <jon_y> btw, do Android phones do the same with the act_dead stuff?
Aug 04 00:18:35 <DocScrutinizer05> quite possible
Aug 04 00:18:48 <DocScrutinizer05> though I never touched any android phone yet
Aug 04 00:19:07 <DocScrutinizer05> basically no device is charging in system-off state
Aug 04 00:19:09 <jon_y> me neither, they're blasphemous :)
Aug 04 00:19:46 <jon_y> ok, so dead battery means extremely bricked phone if there are no battery replacements?
Aug 04 00:19:52 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly since user expects feedback about charging(-progress)
Aug 04 00:20:11 <DocScrutinizer05> not yet
Aug 04 00:20:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flatbatrecover
Aug 04 00:20:18 <infobot> Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover
Aug 04 00:20:39 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-08-04 02:12:32] <DocScrutinizer05> the only situation where charger won't boot right into linux is flatbatrecover
Aug 04 00:20:52 <jon_y> hmm, how does flatbatrecover work?
Aug 04 00:21:21 <DocScrutinizer05> the bq24150 battery manager chip will try to charge battery to a state where system is able to boot
Aug 04 00:21:31 <DocScrutinizer05> you can tell that from steady amber LED
Aug 04 00:21:44 <jon_y> steady instead of varying?
Aug 04 00:22:04 <DocScrutinizer05> this 'emergency charging' is restricted to a max bat voltage of 3.7V though
Aug 04 00:22:09 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Aug 04 00:22:20 <jon_y> all of this is good info, thanks a bunch DocScrutinizer05
Aug 04 00:22:26 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Aug 04 00:22:41 <jon_y> does it work with USB charging from a laptop/desktop?
Aug 04 00:22:49 <jon_y> or does it require the Nokia wallcharger?
Aug 04 00:22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> flatbat? nope
Aug 04 00:23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> requires Nokia wallcharger with D+- short
Aug 04 00:23:26 <jon_y> any modified USB with D+- short will do?
Aug 04 00:23:29 <DocScrutinizer05> or rather, it won't charge at any reasonable rate without, iirc
Aug 04 00:23:35 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Aug 04 00:23:39 <jon_y> I have one on my laptop
Aug 04 00:23:59 <jon_y> that "charging port" is working even with the laptop off
Aug 04 00:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> carefully splitting the cable mantle and shorting white with green wire will do
Aug 04 00:24:59 <jon_y> not that hard to do with easy to find micro usb cables
Aug 04 00:25:17 <jon_y> once again, thanks for the awesome infos
Aug 04 00:25:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I even improvised a charger by shorting the 2 middle contacts of USB-F with a patch of alu foil
Aug 04 00:25:48 <jon_y> I'll need to look at the USB pinouts
Aug 04 00:26:09 <DocScrutinizer05> D+ and D- are the midlle two of all 4 pin USB
Aug 04 00:26:33 <DocScrutinizer05> the outer contacts are +5V and GND
Aug 04 00:26:46 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Aug 04 00:26:48 <jon_y> ok, good to know
Aug 04 00:27:04 <jon_y> now I'm curious how it enters data mode when shorted
Aug 04 00:37:32 <DocScrutinizer51> 022705 <jon_y> now I'm curious how it enters data mode when shorted))  not at all? obviously
Aug 04 00:44:29 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer51: well, according to wikipedia, there is another called Downstream Charping Port
Aug 04 00:44:43 <jon_y> I guess I have one of those on my laptop
Aug 04 00:44:59 <jon_y> since I worked with usbnet over it before
Aug 04 00:46:02 <jon_y> according to the harmattan flasher, it is a hub'ed USB port, so flashing tends to fail
Aug 04 00:46:09 <jon_y> maemo flasher was fine though
Aug 04 00:46:49 <DocScrutinizer51> those so called cahrging USB ports usually are just delivering 5V also wehn PC is suspended or even off
Aug 04 00:47:01 <jon_y> other USB ports tend to cause the n900 to say "Not enough power for charging"
Aug 04 00:47:09 <jon_y> ok, that makes sense too
Aug 04 00:47:56 <jon_y> I'm lacking any hackerspace to probe it
Aug 04 00:49:35 <DocScrutinizer51> you could probe with arbitrary USB stuff that has a LED that's permanently on
Aug 04 00:50:01 <jon_y> a USB mouse
Aug 04 00:50:30 <jon_y> yes, its on
Aug 04 00:50:37 <jon_y> looks like you're right
Aug 04 00:51:00 <DocScrutinizer51> the charging ports also *might* implement soe cruft to deliver up to 1 or 2A and some ay to signal that.
Aug 04 00:51:20 <DocScrutinizer51> that's however not detected or even probed by N900
Aug 04 00:51:37 <jon_y> how much is the usual current draw?
Aug 04 00:51:53 <jon_y> 5v 900mA?
Aug 04 00:51:56 <DocScrutinizer51> 0.5A max
Aug 04 00:52:45 <jon_y> likewise for flatbatrecover?
Aug 04 00:53:14 <jon_y> I noticed the Nokia wallcharger charges faster, or maybe it was my imagination
Aug 04 00:54:27 <DocScrutinizer51> USB vbus supply: 100mA max without any special voodoo
Aug 04 00:54:45 <DocScrutinizer51> 500mA max after ENUM over data
Aug 04 00:55:01 <jon_y> I was planning to build an external battery pack with simple wires
Aug 04 00:55:19 <DocScrutinizer51> 'unlimited' for fastchargers signalled by D+- short
Aug 04 00:55:19 <jon_y> so, it needs some logic to start charging?
Aug 04 00:55:35 <jon_y> ah ok, short D+- and be done with it
Aug 04 00:55:50 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Aug 04 00:55:59 <jon_y> probably a good idea to to limit current to 1A, and a voltage regulator to 5v
Aug 04 00:56:10 <jon_y> don't want no burning battery pack :)
Aug 04 00:56:14 <ShadowJK_> As for external battery pack, to charge N900, just short D+ and D-, and make sure your switchmode converter or whatever can provide enough current
Aug 04 00:56:29 <jon_y> ShadowJK_: 1A is fine?
Aug 04 00:56:32 <ShadowJK_> yes
Aug 04 00:56:53 <jon_y> nice, looks simple enough to step around a few 9V batteries
Aug 04 00:57:43 <ShadowJK_> Amusing trivia, my always-on PC has 6 usb ports. Only 2 of them can reliably charge N900, those 2 are on a PCI bracket. The pci bracket is connected to motherboard straight, but it also includes 2 capacitors on the +5V/GND rails. :-)
Aug 04 00:58:05 <ShadowJK_> 9V is pointless, they don't store any energy worthwhile
Aug 04 00:58:07 <DocScrutinizer51> you might get away with 3 alkaline cells in series
Aug 04 00:58:22 <jon_y> what's with the caps? bounce control?
Aug 04 00:58:42 <ShadowJK_> Stability?
Aug 04 00:58:56 <jon_y> I was thinking 4x9v in parallel
Aug 04 00:59:04 <ShadowJK_> That's just stupid
Aug 04 00:59:14 <ShadowJK_> 6 x aa in parallell makes more sense
Aug 04 00:59:16 <ShadowJK_> uh
Aug 04 00:59:18 <jon_y> not sure if it'll hold more charge than 1.5v in series in weight
Aug 04 00:59:20 <ShadowJK_> and in series :)
Aug 04 00:59:26 <DocScrutinizer51> or 4 NiMH cells
Aug 04 00:59:50 <ShadowJK_> 9V is very expensive on energy per cost basis
Aug 04 01:00:02 <jon_y> well, the most important parts is getting the cells cheaply and easily :)
Aug 04 01:00:06 <ShadowJK_> You only use 9V batteries when space is a premium
Aug 04 01:00:19 <jon_y> I'll remember that
Aug 04 01:00:21 <ShadowJK_> Otherwise, AAA and AA
Aug 04 01:00:31 <jon_y> how about those giant 6V cells? :)
Aug 04 01:00:44 <ShadowJK_> fine
Aug 04 01:00:52 <ShadowJK_> But disposables are meh
Aug 04 01:01:01 <DocScrutinizer51> use 4 NiMH batteries in series and profit
Aug 04 01:01:14 <jon_y> yeah, I should since they're pretty common
Aug 04 01:01:50 <ShadowJK_> 6 or 8 AA in series, feeding a buck converter feeding n900
Aug 04 01:02:33 <DocScrutinizer51> eh buck converter
Aug 04 01:02:45 <DocScrutinizer51> meh even ;-)
Aug 04 01:02:56 <jon_y> while browsing random parts catalog, wtf is a battery authenticator???
Aug 04 01:02:58 <ShadowJK_> Amusingly, I made a contraption for charging off of Li-Ion battery packs, and my biggest issue was that the USB extension cable I cannibalized used such thin wires, that I lost alot of power on that alone
Aug 04 01:03:01 <DocScrutinizer51> 4 * 1.2 
Aug 04 01:03:20 <DocScrutinizer51> 4* 1.44
Aug 04 01:03:38 <ShadowJK_> 4 * 0.8 is the variable I consider
Aug 04 01:03:53 <jon_y> gotta use car jumper cables for better efficiency :)
Aug 04 01:04:52 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK_: for your cable?
Aug 04 01:05:16 <jon_y> I assume it was from power loss due to the crappy cable resistance
Aug 04 01:05:41 <ShadowJK_> jon_y, ues
Aug 04 01:05:51 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK_: I'm talking about 4.8 .. 5.7V on USB
Aug 04 01:06:19 <ShadowJK_> DocScrutinizer, no I mean most generally available AA nimh will collapse to 0.8...1.1V at 1A load
Aug 04 01:06:43 <ShadowJK_> Not when new, of course, but subjected to half dozen cycles of abuse, they will
Aug 04 01:06:46 <DocScrutinizer51> duh what?
Aug 04 01:06:58 <ShadowJK_> So 4xAA direct is kinda dubious imo
Aug 04 01:07:14 <ShadowJK_> because you wont be able to get much energy out of the batteries before the voltage drops too low
Aug 04 01:07:41 <jon_y> how do D cells compare to AA?
Aug 04 01:07:51 <ShadowJK_> they hold more energy
Aug 04 01:07:55 <jon_y> have you tried some joule thief setup?
Aug 04 01:08:01 <jon_y> its really hard to get it right
Aug 04 01:08:45 <jon_y> its a high frequency DC-DC converter, iirc MHz range the last time I tried to design one
Aug 04 01:09:13 <jon_y> it should suck the battery until it is dead
Aug 04 01:09:20 <jon_y> deader than dead
Aug 04 01:09:37 <DocScrutinizer51> that's a buck converter
Aug 04 01:09:38 <ShadowJK_> Most "joule thief" things forget that the battery they're trying to use is only able to provide X watts, and you can get this X watts a X = Volts * Amps, if you have a 100% efficient converter.
Aug 04 01:09:48 <ShadowJK_> Nah joule thief is boost :P
Aug 04 01:10:04 <ShadowJK_> unregulated boost even
Aug 04 01:10:12 <DocScrutinizer51> :nod:
Aug 04 01:10:22 <DocScrutinizer51> buck/boost whatever
Aug 04 01:10:31 <jon_y> heh, I was having trouble controling the available current
Aug 04 01:11:01 <ShadowJK_> Even if a battery has energy left, it isn't able to provide that energy at a fast rate
Aug 04 01:11:43 <DocScrutinizer51> joule thief however sounds like the right name, taking into account efficiency of such a buck/boost
Aug 04 01:12:00 <ShadowJK_> lol
Aug 04 01:12:02 <jon_y> yeah, probably not worth the complication
Aug 04 01:12:26 <ShadowJK_> The original joule thief itself probably runs at around 90+% efficiency
Aug 04 01:12:45 <ShadowJK_> but it's "regulated" by the discharge into a LED
Aug 04 01:12:54 * RST38h yawns
Aug 04 01:13:23 <ShadowJK_> Anyways
Aug 04 01:13:32 <ShadowJK_> I have 3 different setups
Aug 04 01:13:49 <ShadowJK_> 1.5V -> 5V, 3V -> 5V, 7-18V -> 5V
Aug 04 01:14:07 <ShadowJK_> Coincidentally, that's also in order of efficiency, with least efficient first
Aug 04 01:15:36 <DocScrutinizer51> there has to be a reason why tool batteries are 6 cell, 7 cell, 10 cell
Aug 04 01:15:50 <DocScrutinizer51> rather than nn Ah
Aug 04 01:16:27 <ShadowJK_> Fewer amps are easier to handle
Aug 04 01:16:58 <ShadowJK_> For power tools, the added complexity of charging multicell packs is less than the pain of dealing with more amps on the motor driver side
Aug 04 01:17:25 <DocScrutinizer51> prolly
Aug 04 01:17:58 <ShadowJK_> (except for nicd and nimh packs, which you can just bruteforce charge, and then they die 6 months later, but warranty already expired so who cares lol)
Aug 04 01:18:05 <DocScrutinizer51> it's just amazing they seem to offer higher cellcount powerpacks for same tool
Aug 04 01:18:40 <ShadowJK_> The "charging" bit might be inside the pack
Aug 04 01:18:51 <ShadowJK_> A big part of it should be inside the pack
Aug 04 01:19:03 <ShadowJK_> If you want to avoid having 12-pin packs
Aug 04 01:19:14 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm wondering bout the discharge
Aug 04 01:20:48 <ShadowJK_> The ones I have, have a IC controlling a few parallelled mosfets, if the voltage drops too low, or if the current is too high, the IC shuts down the fets
Aug 04 01:23:48 <DocScrutinizer51> and likewise they probably control their motors va PWM so it doesn't matter if that 18V or 21V or even 30
Aug 04 01:29:26 <ShadowJK_> Yes, most of them are brushed DC motors controlled by pwm
Aug 04 01:39:07 <LaoLang_cool> Hi, recaller sucks for call recording, too low quality
Aug 04 01:39:23 <LaoLang_cool> any other recommended?
Aug 04 01:42:01 <DocScrutinizer51> recaller is unique, seen no update since years, and could use some improvements and bugfixes
Aug 04 01:43:22 <ShadowJK_> It's kinda interesting anyway, when I hear on radio interviews with people in the US that have been conducted over cellphone, the sound quality is absolutely atrocious
Aug 04 01:43:57 <ShadowJK_> Similar situation in .fi, and the sound quality is only slightly worse than the radio station's own broadcast quality
Aug 04 01:44:25 <ShadowJK_> Maybe recaller was geared down to the quality benchmark of calls on US networks? dunno
Aug 04 01:47:37 <DocScrutinizer51> recaller needs some love from somebody like javispedro who actaully has a faint clue about audio routing and processing
Aug 04 01:48:53 <DocScrutinizer51> other than freerunner the N900 audio is mostly a white patch on the map
Aug 04 01:49:34 <DocScrutinizer51> spilled with bloody spots of blobs
Aug 04 01:49:35 <LaoLang_cool> Is recaller open-source?
Aug 04 01:49:41 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Aug 04 01:49:49 <LaoLang_cool> I guess the author has been left from maemo
Aug 04 01:50:04 <LaoLang_cool> And abandoned recaller :)
Aug 04 01:50:25 * RiD reads the highly dramatic story
Aug 04 01:50:28 * RiD cries
Aug 04 01:51:08 <LaoLang_cool> recaller is good enough for normal voice recorder, but calling record sucks really, caller's voice sometimes is too low to hear
Aug 04 01:51:56 <LaoLang_cool> And it doesn't auto-record skype's audio calling
Aug 04 01:52:04 <DocScrutinizer51> tom waelti
Aug 04 01:52:11 <DocScrutinizer51> nfc
Aug 04 01:59:26 <DocScrutinizer05> well the skype problem is easily fixed by adapting the dbus signals it listens to, but the recording path is quite a bit different for VoIP than it is for cmt based calls
Aug 04 02:01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> you (or recaller) need to tap the audio signal somewhere, on the way from source to destination. I guess that's been done by some method a guru from Nokia mumbled after his 3rd beer in a cloudy night
Aug 04 02:02:47 <RiD> http://5z8.info/illegal-guns-for-sale_q9r9rc_racist
Aug 04 02:04:26 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: thanks but no thanks
Aug 04 02:04:32 <jonwil> hi
Aug 04 02:04:45 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: first warning
Aug 04 02:04:54 <RiD> Ok
Aug 04 02:06:44 <DocScrutinizer05> hi jonwil
Aug 04 02:07:37 <jonwil> I think my wl1251-cal work is good :)
Aug 04 02:07:47 <DocScrutinizer05> \o/
Aug 04 02:10:25 <jonwil> later I will be cloning libcal
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 04 02:59:58 2012