**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 15 02:59:59 2012
Aug 15 08:18:04 <freemangordon> ~seen jonwil
Aug 15 08:18:05 <infobot> jonwil <~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 1d 17h 4m 27s ago, saying: 'ok, well I dont have time to look at it right now'.
Aug 15 09:34:17 <Lava_Croft> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD6bMozuGQk
Aug 15 09:34:22 <Lava_Croft> cute teardown of old PDA's
Aug 15 09:34:32 <Lava_Croft> the 1986 Psion is just awesome
Aug 15 09:41:48 <mavhc> cool, now if someone could dub it without an annoying accent...
Aug 15 09:42:08 <Lava_Croft> life must be easy for you if such an accent is something that annoys you
Aug 15 09:42:17 <Lava_Croft> since my life is hard enough to just not bother with such accents
Aug 15 09:44:02 <mavhc> I decided to not going into the jumping around in caves career path
Aug 15 09:44:37 <Lava_Croft> virginmedia, you a briton? :D
Aug 15 09:44:44 <mavhc> yeah
Aug 15 09:45:00 <Lava_Croft> your life my be awful in the country of annoying british accents:D
Aug 15 09:45:14 <Lava_Croft> i think even on a 2 week vacation in the UK i got drowned in all the odd english accents:D
Aug 15 09:45:48 <Lava_Croft> i think that animal abusing aussie is to blame for making that aussie accent annoying
Aug 15 09:45:58 <Lava_Croft> you know, the guy that got killed by a fish not too long ago
Aug 15 09:46:23 <mavhc> this guy just sounds really excited about every. single. sentence.
Aug 15 09:46:49 <Lava_Croft> I think he is excited about opening up these devices
Aug 15 09:47:31 <Lava_Croft> still waiting for him to say crikey
Aug 15 09:47:32 <mavhc> "I have toast for breakfast! I just had a baby! aliens invaded!"
Aug 15 09:47:46 <kerio> to be fair, all three of those are things to be really excited about
Aug 15 09:47:55 <Lava_Croft> i dont care about the ipaq
Aug 15 09:47:59 <Lava_Croft> but the other two are nice indeed
Aug 15 09:48:07 <Lava_Croft> used a Pam IIIxe for years myself
Aug 15 09:48:13 <mavhc> I've got an ipaq, won't turn on
Aug 15 09:48:13 <Lava_Croft> and the Psion is just youth sentiment
Aug 15 09:48:25 <Lava_Croft> i gave the ipad i had to my brother for his collection
Aug 15 09:48:27 <Lava_Croft> er
Aug 15 09:48:28 <mavhc> got a psion 3c that I used a little bit
Aug 15 09:48:29 <Lava_Croft> ipaq, haha
Aug 15 09:48:32 <Lava_Croft> thats a nice typo there
Aug 15 09:48:54 <Lava_Croft> the days of Palm were nice
Aug 15 09:49:03 <Lava_Croft> life was easy
Aug 15 09:49:17 <mavhc> psion 5, with real keyboard!
Aug 15 09:49:22 <Lava_Croft> i loved those things
Aug 15 09:49:27 <Lava_Croft> never got to have one tho:<
Aug 15 09:49:45 <Lava_Croft> went from Palm IIIxe to N900, basically
Aug 15 09:50:17 <kerio> they're very different devices, though
Aug 15 09:50:18 <mavhc> used my n810 until the touchscreen broke, then bought a droid 1 off ebay
Aug 15 09:50:23 <Lava_Croft> no shit
Aug 15 09:50:45 <Lava_Croft> i use the N9 as main device now, but the N900 still is king
Aug 15 09:50:46 <kerio> Lava_Croft: i mean, they don't really have the same purpose
Aug 15 09:50:55 <Lava_Croft> kerio: in a way, they do
Aug 15 09:51:12 <Lava_Croft> only the N900 can do much more:)
Aug 15 09:51:14 <kerio> apart from "nerd toy", i mean
Aug 15 09:51:53 <Lava_Croft> i just love computers that fit in my pocket, the Palm IIIxe was basically the only good thing avaiable that i could afford:)
Aug 15 09:52:03 <Lava_Croft> in the case of the N900 is more like 'it was the only thing avaiable'
Aug 15 09:52:13 * Lava_Croft hits keyboard
Aug 15 09:53:08 <kerio> not the one of the n9 though :>
Aug 15 09:53:36 <mavhc> if only the nexus 7 had an sd slot
Aug 15 09:53:46 <Lava_Croft> and a proper front camera:)
Aug 15 09:53:53 <Lava_Croft> and ran proper software;)
Aug 15 09:53:57 <kerio> hehehe
Aug 15 09:54:03 <Lava_Croft> best value for money ever tho, tablet-wise
Aug 15 09:54:04 <kerio> the n900 has a crappy front camera though
Aug 15 09:54:11 <mavhc> not a back camera?
Aug 15 09:54:25 <kerio> the n900's back camera isn't badf
Aug 15 09:54:26 <Lava_Croft> i quite love our nexus7
Aug 15 09:54:26 <kerio> *bad
Aug 15 09:54:37 <Lava_Croft> the n900 'main' camera is quite good
Aug 15 09:55:17 <mavhc> when I was on holiday there were quite a few idiot assholes taking photos with their ipads
Aug 15 09:55:35 <Lava_Croft> haha yes
Aug 15 09:55:37 <Lava_Croft> i love those people
Aug 15 09:55:47 <mavhc> idiots as the camera sucks, assholes as they're blocking the view
Aug 15 09:56:08 <kerio> hmm, the hp pre 3 doesn't sound too bad
Aug 15 09:56:10 <Lava_Croft> i wouldnt say that, if you need a pic and the only thing you have on you is an ipad....
Aug 15 09:56:26 <mavhc> why did you go on holiday without a camera?
Aug 15 09:56:51 <kerio> mavhc: because you've got an ipad
Aug 15 09:56:53 <Lava_Croft> now you assume taking a camera on holiday is mandatory:)
Aug 15 09:57:04 <Lava_Croft> its all about how much value you assign to it
Aug 15 09:57:15 <Lava_Croft> ipad camera is enough for most people, even tho taking pictures with an ipad looks ridiculous
Aug 15 09:57:53 <ZogG_laptop> if someone wants good photos he should buy good camera
Aug 15 09:57:53 <mavhc> there's only 1 reason to use an ipad as a camera, if you have terrible eyesight
Aug 15 09:58:17 <ZogG_laptop> mavhc: "if you are an idiot :P" /fixed
Aug 15 09:59:00 <mavhc> it does have a 10" viewfinder
Aug 15 10:00:05 <Lava_Croft> experience thankfully tells me not to trust people who tell me there's only one reason to use a device:)
Aug 15 10:00:36 <Lava_Croft> and most people just dont give a hoot about someone telling them they shouldnt use an ipad for taking photos:)
Aug 15 10:00:46 <Lava_Croft> they will just take a picture of you and show it on their ipad to you
Aug 15 10:00:52 <Lava_Croft> and say "whats wrong with it?"
Aug 15 10:02:34 <mavhc> I have a picture to demonstrate
Aug 15 10:04:02 <mavhc> I suppose if I took this picture with an ipad it would have uploaded by now
Aug 15 10:04:13 <teotwaki__> actually, if they take a picture of me without my consent, I'll sue them.
Aug 15 10:04:22 <mavhc> for what?
Aug 15 10:04:37 <teotwaki__> For taking my picture.
Aug 15 10:04:53 <mavhc> I'm sure all the lawyers will be happy about that
Aug 15 10:05:16 <teotwaki__> Lawyers? Who needs lawyers? It's a clear cut case.
Aug 15 10:05:46 <teotwaki__> under French law, anyway. People have the right to take a picture of anything they'd like, so long they *never* show it to someone else but themselves.
Aug 15 10:06:33 <mavhc> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Si7a0ywWDsE/UCt0OZ4bATI/AAAAAAAABsk/06sYHY9Xv-w/s1263/P1400229.JPG
Aug 15 10:08:26 <teotwaki__> meh, at least they have the time to take a picture.
Aug 15 10:09:09 <teotwaki__> in '62, Mona Lisa was displayed in the US, people got to see it for roughly 800ms, each.
Aug 15 10:09:23 <mavhc> I went at 9pm
Aug 15 10:11:26 <mavhc> what's amusing is everyone ignoring the 4 van goghs 20m away
Aug 15 10:12:51 <ZogG_laptop> http://www.funnyreign.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ipad-0.jpg
Aug 15 10:20:10 <mavhc> da vinci, not van gogh, I'm still asleep
Aug 15 12:54:15 <zeq1> freemangordon: fennec bumped again.  I've been looking in to the memory situation, one thing we could do would be to free up resources when not focussed like on Android.
Aug 15 12:54:51 <freemangordon> zeq1: well, that won't help much when it is used :)
Aug 15 12:58:10 <zeq1> that's true.  but we don't really want it eating up cpu cycles when idle either.
Aug 15 12:58:27 <zeq1> microb seems to stop js when not focussed
Aug 15 12:58:52 <zeq1> focused*
Aug 15 12:59:12 * zeq1 can't spell today
Aug 15 12:59:43 <freemangordon> zeq1: did you look at lite ipc for n9?
Aug 15 13:01:05 <zeq1> no I haven't yet
Aug 15 13:01:40 <freemangordon> this one:http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85191&highlight=ipc+lite
Aug 15 13:03:06 <zeq1> need to try it
Aug 15 13:03:09 <freemangordon> the fuck, I RE-ed almost the whole vkbrenderer.so but one function, hexrays fails to decompile it :(. Now I shall RE it by hand, damn.
Aug 15 13:08:26 <vi_> zeq1: ping!!!
Aug 15 13:08:38 <Pali> ping MohammadAG
Aug 15 13:10:48 <zeq1> vi_: pong
Aug 15 13:11:03 <MohammadAG> Pali: Pong
Aug 15 13:11:17 <MohammadAG> zeq1: Pong!!!!*
Aug 15 13:11:35 <zeq1> hi :)
Aug 15 13:11:38 <Pali> MohammadAG, can you create cssu git repository on gitorious policy-settings-rx51 ?
Aug 15 13:11:59 <MohammadAG> Pali: Did so when you asked me the first time :P
Aug 15 13:12:46 <zeq1> just off with the dog, will be back in an hour or so...
Aug 15 13:19:17 <zeq1> freemangordon: do you know if the sourcecode for the IPCEmbedding build is in romaxa's repo? http://hg.mozilla.org/users/romaxa_gmail.com/rmxmq ?
Aug 15 13:22:27 <freemangordon> zeq1: NFC. according to the thread some source code should be here http://romaxa.info/fennec/IPCEmbedding/
Aug 15 13:23:02 <freemangordon> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Embedding/IPCLiteAPI
Aug 15 13:23:10 <freemangordon> there are instructions
Aug 15 13:37:04 <Pali> pushing changes to git
Aug 15 13:37:31 <kerio> Pali: yay
Aug 15 13:37:37 <kerio> well, i don't really care, but yay
Aug 15 13:37:52 <Pali> freemangordon, see: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/policy-settings-rx51
Aug 15 13:44:41 <zsolt_hun> hi there.try to compile kernel-source_2.6.28-20101501 
Aug 15 13:45:20 <zsolt_hun>  CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi- make rx51_defconfig
Aug 15 13:45:29 <vi_> zeq: can I mail that N900 now?
Aug 15 13:46:08 <zsolt_hun> but after a while cant continue during make
Aug 15 13:47:16 <zsolt_hun> use ubuntu 12.04 with  arm-linux-gnueabi
Aug 15 14:28:16 <zsolt_hun> is anybody here?
Aug 15 14:48:42 <Jef91> Anyone know where I can find an n900 tear down guide? Need to replace a screen
Aug 15 14:54:51 <SpeedEvil> search wiki for l3 l4
Aug 15 15:01:57 <ruskie> http://www.reghardware.com/2012/08/15/nokia_ceo_set_stall_by_windows_phone/ <-- head firmly through wall and cut off there
Aug 15 15:22:55 <freemangordon> zeq1: do you know GTK?
Aug 15 15:41:04 <timeless> hey
Aug 15 15:41:14 <timeless> how do i search my n900's addressbook by city?
Aug 15 15:43:41 <timeless> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/extended-contacts-search/
Aug 15 15:43:44 * timeless goes off to try
Aug 15 15:44:38 <timeless> hey, anyone here still play w/ the downloads/ page?
Aug 15 15:44:45 <timeless> its comments page 1/2/3/4 stuff seems rather broke
Aug 15 15:44:46 <timeless> n
Aug 15 15:46:01 <timeless> !seen xclaesse
Aug 15 16:18:43 <kerio> ShadowJK: have you thought about putting your I/O tweaks on your wiki user page?
Aug 15 16:19:30 <zeq1> freemangordon: what I mean is it's a long time since I wrote any original GUI code.  I've done quite a bit of debugging of other peoples code, but you don't really know what you don't know until you try to write something yourself.
Aug 15 16:27:39 <ShadowJK> kerio; I once tried editing on wiki, didnt work in my version of firefox and konqueror crash so I though f it
Aug 15 16:27:51 <kerio> haha
Aug 15 16:28:38 <ShadowJK> Same about voting for packages
Aug 15 16:29:10 <ShadowJK> i need to manually edit URLs each time before it works, so I only do it when authors ask for testing in here...
Aug 15 16:37:56 <kerio> hrmpf, ICD seems to have forgotten about my gprs connection :s
Aug 15 16:39:04 <kerio> no, fucking seriously, where is my data connection
Aug 15 16:39:07 <kerio> i don't want to reboot
Aug 15 16:39:08 <kerio> :/
Aug 15 16:52:24 <kerio> ok, rebooting fixed it
Aug 15 16:52:28 <kerio> this is some serious bullshit
Aug 15 16:52:33 <kerio> i was at like two weeks of uptime
Aug 15 16:54:25 <MrPingu> Hi
Aug 15 16:56:15 <MrPingu> Does Backupmenu not erase rootfs and then write to it? I had an backup with 70 mb left on rootfs, installed many programs rootfs space dropped to 60MB, restored backup from backupmenu. Rootfs space still 60MB
Aug 15 16:56:38 <kerio> it does
Aug 15 16:56:54 <kerio> ubifs is compressed, df -h is always a guesstimate
Aug 15 16:57:23 <kerio> sync a couple of times
Aug 15 17:00:33 <ZogG_laptop> ~seen slonopotamus
Aug 15 17:00:43 <infobot> slonopotamus <~slonopota@83.149.8.177> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 41m 40s ago, saying: 'i haven't used skype on n900 30 months ago?'.
Aug 15 17:01:20 <MrPingu> kerio: what do you mean with sync?
Aug 15 17:01:31 <kerio> call "sync" a couple of times before df
Aug 15 17:06:23 <MrPingu> Doesn't help reclaiming those 10 MB :P
Aug 15 17:07:28 <kerio> regardless, ubifs does not care about you and your supposed lack of 10mb
Aug 15 17:07:33 <kerio> he does whatever it wants
Aug 15 17:07:48 <kerio> maybe you got some bad blocks that lowered the worst-case scenario for new data to save
Aug 15 17:08:19 <MrPingu> I don't care about the 10MB, I just don't want to have junk on my phone left :)
Aug 15 17:08:53 <MrPingu> I really installed random extra-devel stuff, if you wonder ;)
Aug 15 17:10:22 <kerio> anyway, backupmenu cleans up /
Aug 15 17:10:24 <kerio> so yeah
Aug 15 17:10:47 <MrPingu> I am happy now :)
Aug 15 17:12:22 <kerio> (:
Aug 15 17:41:23 <freemangordon> ~seen jonwil
Aug 15 17:41:32 <infobot> jonwil <~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 2d 2h 27m 53s ago, saying: 'ok, well I dont have time to look at it right now'.
Aug 15 18:51:40 <DocScrutinizer51> sure about BM cleaning up /?
Aug 15 18:53:14 <DocScrutinizer51> since BM2 only does tarballs, I'd expect any cleaning is an optional step just doing rm -rf /, or even mkfs.ubifs
Aug 15 18:53:55 * rm_work waves
Aug 15 18:54:09 <DocScrutinizer51> hi rm_*
Aug 15 18:55:34 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd expect BM to just ruthlessly overwrite whatever existing files in /, leaving unknown files untouched
Aug 15 18:56:49 <DocScrutinizer51> but I admit it's been a while since my last BMrestore
Aug 15 18:57:46 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: the BM restore says "cleaning rootfs"
Aug 15 18:57:49 <kerio> i think it's a rm -rf /
Aug 15 18:57:54 <kerio> well
Aug 15 18:57:57 <kerio> rm -rf /mnt/rootfs
Aug 15 19:05:28 <DocScrutinizer05> rather that, yeah
Aug 15 19:05:50 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: is it done with each restore, or just when you ask for it?
Aug 15 19:06:02 <kerio> when you restore rootfs, i think
Aug 15 19:06:15 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Aug 15 19:06:35 <DocScrutinizer05> BM could use a mini-cli for that
Aug 15 19:06:55 <DocScrutinizer05> or rather, a "GUI"
Aug 15 19:07:33 <kerio> why?
Aug 15 19:07:44 <kerio> it's a full backup, it doesn't destroy the FS because there's no reason to
Aug 15 19:07:51 <kerio> and because ubifs is weird as fuck
Aug 15 19:07:57 <DocScrutinizer05> "[x] erase /", and a multiselector-treeview to checkmark what to restore
Aug 15 19:10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> top two google hits today searching for AT+CPIN or somesuch, were nobbi and shapeshifter.se :-o
Aug 15 19:12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, shapeshifter isn't such an uncommon term, so 'our' shapeshifter might be unrelated to shapeshifter.se
Aug 15 19:17:23 <DocScrutinizer05> well, or maybe http://www.shapeshifter.se/2009/07/07/diy-female-female-usb-adapter/#comments
Aug 15 19:22:55 <Sicelo> gentlemen .. another silly problem here
Aug 15 19:24:52 <Sicelo> what would likely cause my N900 to be unable to use dns servers of my choice, eg, 8.8.8.8? pinging this address works, but using it as my DNS server always fails to resolve. even `dig @8.8.8.8 .. ` always returns Timeout .. NO servers could be reached. 
Aug 15 19:27:16 <Sicelo> i've noticed this with my gprs/3g .. i haven't yet tested via wlan/etc
Aug 15 19:28:12 <Sicelo> i may add .. this worked before .. at least `dig` .. i started to notice this problem about a week ago
Aug 15 19:48:48 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: a) maemo5 runs dnsmasq, you're not supposed to edit /etc/resolv.conf. b) probably something on the way filters traffic per port, most likely your GPRS carrier's NAT
Aug 15 19:49:33 <Sicelo> yeah. my resolv.conf points to localhost. 
Aug 15 19:49:46 <DocScrutinizer05> that's correct then
Aug 15 19:50:16 <Sicelo> i'm willing to blame my carrier, but .. just wanted to be sure i didn't mess something up .. eg, upgrading to a lib with issues
Aug 15 19:50:19 <Sicelo> :/
Aug 15 19:50:52 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing like that known (to me at least)
Aug 15 19:51:56 <Sicelo> i'll keep the investigations going .. will try to test with my lan at work
Aug 15 19:56:35 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: compare `traceroute -p 53 8.8.8.8` and `traceroute 8.8.8.8`
Aug 15 19:56:46 <Sicelo> kewl. let me see
Aug 15 19:56:50 <Jef91> After I add CSSU how do I get portrait mode on my n900 desktop again?
Aug 15 19:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Jef91: depends on flavour
Aug 15 19:57:28 <Jef91> I added the stable version
Aug 15 19:59:46 <DocScrutinizer05> Jef91: see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/FeaturesStable
Aug 15 20:00:56 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/FeaturesStable#hildon-desktop
Aug 15 20:01:51 <DocScrutinizer05> but mere installing and operating the applet will do the gconf tweaking for you
Aug 15 20:05:57 <kerio> wtf is composite mode?
Aug 15 20:09:36 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik it means graphic elements (status bar / top bar) get rendered into another (usually video) framebuffer
Aug 15 20:13:03 <Sicelo> thanks DocScrutinizer05. definitely something happening at my operator .. with -p 53 , i get those stars of death, lol
Aug 15 20:13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> well, same even here, via DSL
Aug 15 20:16:13 <Sicelo> oh
Aug 15 20:19:59 <DocScrutinizer05> but that different routing depending on port/service might well cause your trouble
Aug 15 20:20:36 <DocScrutinizer05> -p 53:
Aug 15 20:20:40 <DocScrutinizer05>  2  217.0.70.70 (217.0.70.70)  62.616 ms   66.255 ms   71.316 ms
Aug 15 20:20:41 <DocScrutinizer05>  3  217.239.41.222 (217.239.41.222)  146.276 ms 217.239.41.122 (217.239.41.122)  103.481 ms 217.239.41.222 (217.239.41.222)  144.359 ms
Aug 15 20:20:43 <DocScrutinizer05>  4  * * *
Aug 15 20:21:12 <DocScrutinizer05> w/o -p:
Aug 15 20:21:24 <DocScrutinizer05>  2  217.0.70.70 (217.0.70.70)  63.156 ms   69.244 ms   72.600 ms
Aug 15 20:21:25 <DocScrutinizer05>  3  217.239.41.130 (217.239.41.130)  78.311 ms   82.651 ms 217.239.41.46 (217.239.41.46)  87.499 ms
Aug 15 20:21:27 <DocScrutinizer05>  4  80.150.170.74 (80.150.170.74)  91.954 ms 80.150.170.78 (80.150.170.78)  95.663 ms   99.459 ms
Aug 15 20:21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ...
Aug 15 20:22:11 <DocScrutinizer05>  9  google-public-dns-a.google.com (8.8.8.8)  82.778 ms   87.221 ms   90.263 ms
Aug 15 20:23:23 <pronto> k
Aug 15 20:23:56 <DocScrutinizer05> pronto: sorry
Aug 15 20:24:13 <pronto> DocScrutinizer: apologyze not accpented!
Aug 15 20:24:27 <DocScrutinizer05> then keep it
Aug 15 20:24:32 <pronto> thanks
Aug 15 20:25:53 <Sicelo> the routing appears to be the same here until 5 th hop. thereafter, everything times out if i specify port 53
Aug 15 20:25:55 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: why is there a hotkey to enable it?
Aug 15 20:27:41 <DocScrutinizer05> the hop-# is irrelevant, it's 217.0.70.70 that does port-dependant routing
Aug 15 20:28:00 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: hm?
Aug 15 20:28:10 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: where? which hotkey, enable what?
Aug 15 20:28:12 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: ctrl+shift+n is supposed to toggle composite mode in hildon-desktop
Aug 15 20:28:27 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Aug 15 20:29:32 <DocScrutinizer05> compositor suspected to slow down framerate
Aug 15 20:30:31 <DocScrutinizer05> so maybe it's supposed to be poor man's fullscreen mode for games, to speed them up
Aug 15 20:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> isn't there any explanation on thp's site?
Aug 15 20:40:19 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, there isn't
Aug 15 20:40:36 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway http://my.svgalib.org/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html is worth it
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 16 02:59:58 2012