**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 09 02:59:58 2012
Nov 09 03:05:41 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Apple seeks cooling fan patent for iPhone, iPad
Nov 09 04:34:23 <Luke-Jr> RST38h: wtf, fan in a phone?
Nov 09 08:43:14 <vi_> yo
Nov 09 08:43:56 <vi_> are there any bl-5j chargers that will not explode in my face?
Nov 09 08:44:38 <freemangordon> the lady with broken USB port bought a cheapo chinese one, so far she said it is ok
Nov 09 08:44:48 <freemangordon> "universal charger" or something
Nov 09 08:44:59 <vi_> I am utterly terrrified of chinese chargers.
Nov 09 08:45:26 <vi_> At least 3 times I have seen a 5v transformer with a zener diode over the output.
Nov 09 08:45:31 <freemangordon> yeah, that one looks terrifying, but strangely it works
Nov 09 08:45:48 <freemangordon> naah, that one has 3 LEDS :D:D:D
Nov 09 08:45:55 <vi_> lol
Nov 09 08:46:26 <vi_> I bid buy from ebay 15x20mm pre-populated PCBs.
Nov 09 08:46:48 <vi_> they have a li-0ion charge controller and a usb socket on them.
Nov 09 08:47:09 <vi_> At one end and two pads for soldering the wires of the li-ion cell to the other.
Nov 09 08:47:23 <vi_> Quite neat, usb li-ion charging on anything!
Nov 09 08:47:33 <vi_> cost like 2euro each.
Nov 09 08:49:12 <freemangordon> that one:
Nov 09 08:49:13 <freemangordon> http://www.google.bg/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Rom8-Z_zd0o/TeCwEokQMvI/AAAAAAAACJA/FxK7PeL8FbU/s640/Universal%2BBattery%2BCharger.jpg&imgrefurl=http://201rootkola.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html&h=286&w=531&sz=27&tbnid=0FbsMnSiQIkJTM:&tbnh=65&tbnw=120&prev=/search%3Fq%3Duniversal%2Bbattery%2Bcharger%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=universal+battery+charger&usg=__VUKM-Zo2715gwXsLJ4zHo
Nov 09 08:49:13 <freemangordon> QFrVd0=&docid=pRNk2z16QLy9DM&sa=X&ei=TcOcUOjXLcizhAeWzoHYBg&ved=0CDwQ9QEwAg&dur=1958
Nov 09 08:49:17 <freemangordon> oops
Nov 09 08:49:22 <freemangordon> line too long
Nov 09 08:49:22 <vi_> lol wut
Nov 09 08:49:48 <freemangordon> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OfhtRV9_Q2Q/TeCv0RAVHTI/AAAAAAAACIw/dwzRpqe1BZ4/s640/universal_Charger.11393034.jpg
Nov 09 08:55:21 <freemangordon> vi_: so? how many
Nov 09 08:55:30 <vi_> well it is complex!
Nov 09 08:55:43 <vi_> I do all alarm type things from alarmed.
Nov 09 08:56:06 <vi_> Which is, AIU the same backend for the regular alarms.
Nov 09 08:56:10 <freemangordon> who plays the sound?
Nov 09 08:56:15 <freemangordon> it is
Nov 09 08:56:35 <vi_> AFAIU it is just a normal alarm.
Nov 09 08:56:53 <vi_> you use either alarmed or clock interface to set the alarm.
Nov 09 08:57:34 <vi_> Then when alarmd notices that there should be an alarm going, it initiates the 'alarm screen'/
Nov 09 08:57:36 <freemangordon> vi_: it is not tha backend
Nov 09 08:57:39 <freemangordon> *the
Nov 09 08:57:50 <vi_> that is the screen with stop/snooze on it.
Nov 09 08:58:00 <vi_> alarmed is not the backend?
Nov 09 08:58:08 <vi_> ^alarmd
Nov 09 08:58:16 <freemangordon> I mean that it is not the backend that is buggy
Nov 09 08:58:19 <vi_> alarmd==cron style scheduler.
Nov 09 08:58:24 <freemangordon> ^^^
Nov 09 08:58:27 <vi_> alarmed==gui frontend.
Nov 09 08:58:34 <freemangordon> I know
Nov 09 08:58:42 <vi_> just making sure we are on the same page.
Nov 09 08:58:46 <freemangordon> ok
Nov 09 08:59:05 <freemangordon> so, again, how many alarm rings does it take to wake you up?
Nov 09 08:59:27 <vi_> Well I am already awake by the time the alarm rings.
Nov 09 08:59:33 <vi_> Let me explain.
Nov 09 08:59:47 <freemangordon> well, that is the reason you never miss one
Nov 09 09:00:04 <freemangordon> as if you stop/snooze, everything is fine
Nov 09 09:00:04 <vi_> My n900 connects to the internet 30 minutes before I wake up.
Nov 09 09:00:18 <vi_> It then sets volume to 0.
Nov 09 09:00:27 <vi_> It then connects to radio swiss jazz.
Nov 09 09:00:36 <freemangordon> vi_: thats irrelevant
Nov 09 09:00:44 <vi_> It then slowly ramps the volume to maximum.
Nov 09 09:00:46 <vi_> THEN
Nov 09 09:01:08 <vi_> the an alarm set in alarmed goes off.
Nov 09 09:01:16 <vi_> It has never failed me yet.
Nov 09 09:01:29 <vi_> The alarm rings when it is supposed to.
Nov 09 09:01:49 <freemangordon> my point is that if you miss first 6 rings you overslept (repeat time 5 minutes, 5 alarms set with 15 minutes interval)
Nov 09 09:02:20 <freemangordon> vi_: yes, the first 5 or six ring when they are supposed to
Nov 09 09:02:31 <freemangordon> but not the following
Nov 09 09:02:46 <vi_> aaah
Nov 09 09:02:53 <teotwaki> The N900 is useless to wake me up
Nov 09 09:02:59 <teotwaki> so are the two blackberries, though
Nov 09 09:03:11 <teotwaki> I have a physical alarm, a loud one
Nov 09 09:03:22 <teotwaki> And at least two cron jobs
Nov 09 09:03:22 <vi_> The n900 has always been like that.
Nov 09 09:03:30 <freemangordon> and I deffinitely need lots of noise to wake me up when I go to bed in 3-4 am
Nov 09 09:03:55 <vi_> eventually the alarm just gives up after a 1hr.
Nov 09 09:03:56 <freemangordon> vi_: like what I explain?
Nov 09 09:04:09 <vi_> It will stop ringing.
Nov 09 09:04:25 <vi_> It is as if there is a 1hr window for the alarm to work in.
Nov 09 09:04:31 <freemangordon> yeah. but finally I am irritated enough to RE it and fix that shit
Nov 09 09:04:43 <vi_> Oh, I thought it was a feature.
Nov 09 09:04:51 <freemangordon> along with 60 seconds limit for the sound
Nov 09 09:04:58 <freemangordon> vi_: feature
Nov 09 09:04:59 <freemangordon> ?
Nov 09 09:05:02 <freemangordon> come on
Nov 09 09:05:25 <vi_> XD
Nov 09 09:05:51 <freemangordon> toldya, I have 5 or 6 alarms set up , 15 minutes interval (as if you set lesser interval it just wont ring)
Nov 09 09:06:10 <freemangordon> with 5 minutes for auto-snooze interval
Nov 09 09:06:55 <freemangordon> when (finally) I wake up and press stop, then the next alarm starts to ring
Nov 09 09:07:04 <vi_> 6 alarms! THat is crazy.
Nov 09 09:07:12 <vi_> It sounds like the bug is in YOUR firmware.
Nov 09 09:07:18 <freemangordon> the one that have been supposed to ring an hour or so ago
Nov 09 09:07:34 <freemangordon> vi_: what is the problem to have 6 alarms?
Nov 09 09:07:42 <freemangordon> or 60 in that regard
Nov 09 09:07:44 <freemangordon> ?
Nov 09 09:08:10 <freemangordon> vi_: my first Nokia was 5110
Nov 09 09:08:12 <vi_> Can you imagine a man sleeping with 6 old fashioned alarm clocks all set to go off at staggered intervals.
Nov 09 09:08:20 <vi_> It is just a funny image.
Nov 09 09:08:47 <freemangordon> and I thought I knew how Nokia alarms work
Nov 09 09:08:51 <jon_y> the 6 alarms are ritualistically arranged to wake the dead
Nov 09 09:09:09 <freemangordon> hmm, maybe I should make them 666
Nov 09 09:09:13 <freemangordon> :D
Nov 09 09:09:16 <jon_y> did I just start a horror story :)
Nov 09 09:09:30 <vi_> be sure to arrange your n900s in a token ring ethernet pentagram.
Nov 09 09:09:57 <freemangordon> naah, jewish star ethernet topology :P
Nov 09 09:10:05 <jon_y> nah, it's wifi these days, not sure what's the aesthetic equivalent
Nov 09 09:10:28 <freemangordon> anyway, alarmd systemui plugin is buggy as hell
Nov 09 09:10:34 <freemangordon> *alarm
Nov 09 09:10:44 <jon_y> the alarm app in the n900?
Nov 09 09:10:57 <freemangordon> and deffinitely there is a memory leak
Nov 09 09:10:59 <freemangordon> yes
Nov 09 09:11:09 <jon_y> sometimes it would not accept me pressing the "stop" button
Nov 09 09:11:17 <freemangordon> the one with stop/snooze buttons on it
Nov 09 09:11:34 <vi_> I just do not understand why it was so important for nokia to sit on the source code for such trivial programs.
Nov 09 09:11:39 <jon_y> yes that, it would ring non stop and lagged like crazy
Nov 09 09:12:01 <jon_y> patent pending cool code
Nov 09 09:12:08 <freemangordon> vi_: the funny stuff is that it is called osso-...
Nov 09 09:12:59 <jon_y> write a 3 liner perl script to replace it? :)
Nov 09 09:13:32 <freemangordon> anyway, I have several more functions to RE and I'll have the complete source code. Will fix it . Hopefully
Nov 09 09:14:23 <freemangordon> vi_: the point to not open it is that it uses lots of imports from systemui binary
Nov 09 09:14:41 <freemangordon> so the whole systemui stack have to be open
Nov 09 09:14:48 <freemangordon> (at least headers)
Nov 09 09:15:11 <vi_> I am not so familiar with how systemui is placed in the system.
Nov 09 09:15:20 <freemangordon> don;t ask me why it is so precious to be kept closed I have NFC
Nov 09 09:16:09 <vi_> freemangordon: Well if you get bored of the alarm, RE tklock and get rid of the goddamned swipe to unlock bullshit.  DOuble press power button to lock, double press to unlock.
Nov 09 09:16:22 <freemangordon> but by looking at the alarm UI code I have some suspicions
Nov 09 09:16:36 <freemangordon> :D:D:D
Nov 09 09:16:42 <jon_y> oh, and the calendar/time set applet too
Nov 09 09:16:45 <freemangordon> vi_: well, first things first :P
Nov 09 09:16:59 <jon_y> why do I have to swipe all the way to enter the minute
Nov 09 09:17:04 <jon_y> all 0-59
Nov 09 09:17:20 <freemangordon> jon_y: that one can be just rewrited, I don't think it needs to be REed
Nov 09 09:17:44 <jon_y> ~REed
Nov 09 09:17:52 <vi_> jon_y: GodDAMNED osso-startup wizard.
Nov 09 09:17:57 <freemangordon> ~RE
Nov 09 09:17:58 <infobot> well, re is religious education
Nov 09 09:18:00 <jon_y> what's REed?
Nov 09 09:18:11 <freemangordon> infobot: you are stupid
Nov 09 09:18:12 <infobot> freemangordon: what are you talking about?
Nov 09 09:18:17 <freemangordon> you know
Nov 09 09:18:34 <freemangordon> jon_y: reverse engineered
Nov 09 09:18:39 <jon_y> ok
Nov 09 09:19:37 <vi_> osso startup wizard making you drag the sliders to set the date and 'turn' the clock to set the time.  So fucking lame.  All is needed is a dialog that will remember if you like am/pm|24h and allow you to type in a string of characters to set the time/date.
Nov 09 09:20:16 <jon_y> somebody in Nokia likes the UI
Nov 09 09:20:22 <vi_> fortunatley you can just apt-get remove osso-startup-wizard
Nov 09 09:20:41 <vi_> somebody in nokia lies the cock.
Nov 09 09:20:46 <vi_> somebody in nokia likes the cock.
Nov 09 09:20:53 <jon_y> :)
Nov 09 09:51:33 * GeneralAntilles head-desks.
Nov 09 10:21:37 * vi_ passes GeneralAntilles the bong.
Nov 09 10:22:24 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not sure why I replied.
Nov 09 10:24:55 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, because we all fail to ignore the trolls sometimes :)
Nov 09 10:25:16 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah. . . .
Nov 09 10:26:09 <GeneralAntilles> I had to wake up at 2 this morning to deal with a minor emergency
Nov 09 10:26:09 <ZogG_laptop> hey
Nov 09 10:26:13 <GeneralAntilles> Made me weak.
Nov 09 10:26:22 <ZogG_laptop> GeneralAntilles: go back to sleep
Nov 09 10:26:35 <GeneralAntilles> Wired now.
Nov 09 10:26:54 <GeneralAntilles> I'm going to be tired again about the time I have to be at work. :D
Nov 09 11:28:38 <DocScrutinizer05> hi GeneralAntilles
Nov 09 11:36:59 <chem|st> goooood morning maemo
Nov 09 11:38:28 <chem|st> estel is still trying to convince people that we do not need a council or even THAT council... now that he is banned from tmo he is on the mailing list
Nov 09 11:48:19 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: The onboard backup battery is a li-ion?
Nov 09 11:48:52 <DocScrutinizer05> in a certain flavor
Nov 09 11:48:59 <DocScrutinizer05> LiMg
Nov 09 11:49:20 <DocScrutinizer05> only 2.0..3.0V
Nov 09 11:49:26 <DocScrutinizer05> or sth
Nov 09 11:49:40 <vi_> ok
Nov 09 11:49:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bupbat
Nov 09 11:49:46 <infobot> it has been said that bupbat is http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months
Nov 09 11:50:18 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: hey, what a delight
Nov 09 11:50:54 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: gives me the confidence that reality has a certain continuity
Nov 09 11:51:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Nov 09 11:51:06 <vi_> what sort of capacitance do you think would be required to replace the bupbat?
Nov 09 11:51:15 <vi_> Would you need a series resitance?
Nov 09 11:51:27 <vi_> Would the a cap ESR do?
Nov 09 11:51:34 <DocScrutinizer05> anything with >= 3V and as much Farad as possible
Nov 09 11:51:49 <DocScrutinizer05> no series R needed
Nov 09 11:52:21 <vi_> Is there the necessarys to stop the cap dumping all of its charge at once?
Nov 09 11:52:48 <DocScrutinizer05> the capacitive 414 has sth like 0.6F iirc, worth several weeks of RTC power
Nov 09 11:53:18 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, no special requirements
Nov 09 11:53:21 <vi_> aha. So o.1F would be enough for a battery swap.
Nov 09 11:53:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Nov 09 11:53:45 <DocScrutinizer05> probably 0.001F would suffice for swap
Nov 09 11:54:13 <vi_> you can get an x7r 1206 0.1F.
Nov 09 11:54:28 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds good enough
Nov 09 11:54:33 <vi_> ...
Nov 09 11:54:36 <vi_> interesting
Nov 09 11:54:38 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, it is possible power n900 from charger only? (n900 without battery)
Nov 09 11:54:45 <vi_> Pali: yes.
Nov 09 11:54:56 <vi_> But not with BME running.
Nov 09 11:55:02 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: see tmo "hotswap of battery possible"
Nov 09 11:55:17 <Pali> vi_, this is not problem I can replace bme :-)
Nov 09 11:55:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I powered the device for an afternoon from USB, without battery inserted
Nov 09 11:55:54 <DocScrutinizer05> cmt won't work though
Nov 09 11:56:51 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: why?
Nov 09 11:57:07 <DocScrutinizer05> why what?
Nov 09 11:57:19 <vi_> why will cmt not work?
Nov 09 11:57:27 <DocScrutinizer05> TX power surges
Nov 09 11:57:36 <DocScrutinizer05> >2A possibly >4A
Nov 09 11:57:42 <vi_> holy fuck.
Nov 09 11:58:28 <DocScrutinizer05> 20ms but no capacitor will buffer that
Nov 09 11:58:45 <vi_> cv=it...
Nov 09 11:59:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ???
Nov 09 12:00:07 <DocScrutinizer05> aah
Nov 09 12:00:30 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, that took a while. I'm definitely not feeling well today
Nov 09 12:01:36 <vi_> holy shit, farnel supply a 3000F cap.
Nov 09 12:01:39 <DocScrutinizer05> vi, there's a funny direct linear relation between Wh aka Joule you can store in a capacitor, and its volume
Nov 09 12:01:44 <grammoboy> hm cutetube doesn't find videos anymore
Nov 09 12:01:56 <grammoboy> and the mediaplayer plugin neither
Nov 09 12:02:01 <grammoboy> n900
Nov 09 12:02:14 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Yes, depending on construction material.
Nov 09 12:02:15 <jon_y> vi_: HOLYSHIT 3000F?
Nov 09 12:02:24 <vi_> Yes.
Nov 09 12:02:30 <jon_y> just tempted to short it :)
Nov 09 12:02:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, only size of a coke bottle
Nov 09 12:02:51 <vi_> jon_y: With your tounge!
Nov 09 12:02:57 <DocScrutinizer05> and it's NOT low ESR
Nov 09 12:02:57 <trx> lol
Nov 09 12:03:08 <jon_y> whats the voltage limit?
Nov 09 12:03:16 <DocScrutinizer05> 2.x V
Nov 09 12:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Nov 09 12:03:29 <jon_y> kind of low
Nov 09 12:03:45 <jon_y> stacking kind of halves the cap
Nov 09 12:04:02 <DocScrutinizer05> not kind of
Nov 09 12:04:14 <vi_> 2.7v
Nov 09 12:04:19 <grammoboy> I want to download youtube video :(
Nov 09 12:04:24 <vi_> actually low esr
Nov 09 12:04:32 <vi_> 0.000029R
Nov 09 12:05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly 1 / ( 1/C1 + 1/C2 )
Nov 09 12:05:48 <vi_> 138x60mm
Nov 09 12:06:02 <vi_> only a mere £260
Nov 09 12:06:15 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh pretty low ESR indeed
Nov 09 12:06:19 <DocScrutinizer05> :-o
Nov 09 12:06:22 <vi_> HOLY CHRISTING FUCK.
Nov 09 12:06:29 <vi_> Short circuit current:
Nov 09 12:06:32 <vi_> 9300
Nov 09 12:06:34 <vi_> A
Nov 09 12:06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> DAFAQ!
Nov 09 12:07:03 <DocScrutinizer05> still, 2.7V - lame
Nov 09 12:07:46 <vi_> rated to contain 3W of power.
Nov 09 12:07:55 <DocScrutinizer05> 100uF/400V for sure gives better show effects
Nov 09 12:08:14 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: that's not a matching unit
Nov 09 12:08:27 <DocScrutinizer05> neither power nor W
Nov 09 12:08:40 <DocScrutinizer05> a light bulb can have 3W
Nov 09 12:08:43 <vi_> I am just pasting from the datasheet.
Nov 09 12:08:58 <DocScrutinizer05> they probably meant 3Ws
Nov 09 12:09:08 <vi_> energy available: 3.04Wh
Nov 09 12:09:11 <DocScrutinizer05> or even 3Wh
Nov 09 12:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> which is an energy, not a power unit
Nov 09 12:09:48 <jon_y> how long does the n900 last at 0.5*c*v^2?
Nov 09 12:10:26 <DocScrutinizer05> how long does N900 last on BL-5J (3.x Wh)?
Nov 09 12:11:17 <jon_y> around 3 days?
Nov 09 12:11:18 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, 4.9Wh
Nov 09 12:12:06 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-11-09 13:09:09] <vi_> energy available: 3.04Wh
Nov 09 12:12:36 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: http://uk.farnell.com/cooper-bussmann/ksl-3r3703s-r/capacitor-super-0-07f3-3v100-ohm80/dp/1786382
Nov 09 12:12:39 <vi_> look at that.
Nov 09 12:13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: iirc they used 100s of those in tram
Nov 09 12:13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> not of ^^^ those ;-P
Nov 09 12:14:16 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_:  looks pretty compatible
Nov 09 12:14:29 <vi_> It looks like a drop in replacement.
Nov 09 12:14:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 09 12:14:43 <vi_> Unfortunatley the datasheet says they are obsolete.
Nov 09 12:14:50 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Nov 09 12:14:53 <DocScrutinizer05> shite
Nov 09 12:15:26 <vi_> 4.8x1.4mm
Nov 09 12:16:04 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds about right
Nov 09 12:16:08 <vi_> 500hr lifespan
Nov 09 12:16:10 <vi_> o0
Nov 09 12:16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, get a friggin 1206
Nov 09 12:16:55 <DocScrutinizer05> X7R or sth
Nov 09 12:17:38 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe all those "batteries" were a deadend street in component development
Nov 09 12:20:02 <DocScrutinizer05> look for supercap or goldcap
Nov 09 12:20:19 <DocScrutinizer05> those seem to stand a certain lifespan
Nov 09 12:20:39 <DocScrutinizer05> used everywhere, even in bike lights
Nov 09 12:21:10 <vi_> meh. I have to work for my job.
Nov 09 12:21:11 <vi_> bbl
Nov 09 12:21:37 * DocScrutinizer05 too would need to deal with headache and absence from job *right* now
Nov 09 12:48:10 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: make a bl-5j-shaped capacitor
Nov 09 12:48:49 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: what for? it has 1/10 of the energy of a LiIon like BL-5J *at best*
Nov 09 12:49:03 <kerio> no, make a *good* one!
Nov 09 12:49:40 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: send me a machine that turns shit into platinum
Nov 09 12:50:07 <kerio> k, i'll send you one that only works with a bl-5j-shaped capacitor inserted in a slot
Nov 09 12:50:17 <jon_y> shaped capacitor?
Nov 09 12:50:29 <kerio> (bl-5j)-shaped
Nov 09 12:50:37 * jon_y needs more shaped charge
Nov 09 12:51:17 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: mostly because chemistry sucks
Nov 09 12:53:48 <Luke-Jr> kerio: upgrade to alchemy!
Nov 09 12:54:20 <kerio> alchemy can't work
Nov 09 12:54:31 <kerio> you can't have equivalent exchange and third law of thermodynamics
Nov 09 13:12:35 <kerio> oh, Pali is here
Nov 09 13:12:45 <kerio> Pali: this morning my phone was off
Nov 09 13:12:47 <kerio> left it charging overnight
Nov 09 13:12:53 <kerio> no messages in syslog
Nov 09 13:43:49 <vi_> phew, another week managed convincing my company I know what I am doing.
Nov 09 13:43:57 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: Does it get any easier?
Nov 09 13:44:35 <DocScrutinizer05> probably not
Nov 09 13:47:07 <DocScrutinizer05> and I think a constant challenge regarding explaining to others what you do is a benefit for all - including yourself
Nov 09 13:47:40 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: I would tend to agree.  Unless you fully understand a thing, you cannot explain it to another person.
Nov 09 13:47:54 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Nov 09 13:48:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I pretty much like and search for that kind of reality check
Nov 09 13:49:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and I preach it as a mandatory component in rollout of any patches 
Nov 09 13:59:20 <Pali> see this: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=pulseaudio-modules-n900.changes&package=pulseaudio-modules-n900&project=CE:Adaptation:N9xx-common
Nov 09 13:59:34 <Pali> somebody from @jollamobile.com updated package for n900!
Nov 09 14:00:20 <Pali> Sun Oct 14 2012
Nov 09 14:06:27 <kerio> Pali: what about my charging issue?
Nov 09 14:06:51 <Pali> kerio, which issue?
Nov 09 14:07:04 <kerio> this morning i found that my phone was off
Nov 09 14:07:16 <kerio> solid green light, no messages in syslog regarding a shutdown
Nov 09 14:08:20 <Pali> I need syslog
Nov 09 14:09:09 <vi_> Pali: holy shit, that is incredible!
Nov 09 14:09:34 <vi_> I know have a modicum of faith that jolla might do something useful.
Nov 09 14:09:45 <Skry> Pali: there are actually quite a lot of updates from jolla people lately to mer etc
Nov 09 14:10:10 <Pali> but for n900?
Nov 09 14:10:21 <Skry> n900 too
Nov 09 14:10:32 <kerio> Pali: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1929061
Nov 09 14:10:36 <Skry> like fbdev-sgx which was updated for Xorg 1.13
Nov 09 14:10:44 <vi_> well I imagine n900 is a convenient test platform.
Nov 09 14:10:46 <kerio> no, nvm, it's cut
Nov 09 14:11:10 <vi_> cheap, easily available and most of the work is already done.
Nov 09 14:11:54 <vi_> For the love of god.  In all that is holy I hope they release an n900 follow up.
Nov 09 14:12:22 <vi_> I can still remember the utter disappointment the morning I read the N9 release stuff.
Nov 09 14:12:35 <kerio> Pali: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1405219/syslog
Nov 09 14:14:58 <Pali> nothing bad in log
Nov 09 14:15:58 <kerio> i know
Nov 09 14:16:05 <kerio> no mention of a shutdown either
Nov 09 14:16:38 <kerio> the really weird thing is that there was plenty of battery anyway, so even if it stopped charging there's no good reason it should've drained the battery
Nov 09 14:18:41 <Skry> I've had that behaviour from time to time since I bought it. I have separate alarm clock I can trust.
Nov 09 14:19:59 <Skry> sso maybe some moar testing? maybe this was a one time glitch on the universe?
Nov 09 14:20:13 <Pali> noooooooooooooooooooooooo
Nov 09 14:20:15 <kerio> this makes no sense :s
Nov 09 14:20:15 <Pali> Use systemd module loading to workaround startup race condition
Nov 09 14:20:24 <Pali> ti-omap3-sgx
Nov 09 14:20:32 <Pali> from @jollamobile.com
Nov 09 14:20:46 <Pali> Thu Nov 1 2012 
Nov 09 14:20:52 <kerio> LOL LENNART
Nov 09 14:20:53 <vi_> what do you mean noooooooooooooooo?
Nov 09 14:20:57 <Pali> so jolla using systemd
Nov 09 14:20:58 <vi_> WTF IS LENNART?
Nov 09 14:21:03 <vi_> and LART?
Nov 09 14:21:06 <kerio> ~poettering
Nov 09 14:21:07 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Nov 09 14:21:11 <Pali> ~lennart
Nov 09 14:21:19 <vi_> Explain to me.
Nov 09 14:21:23 <kerio> lennart poettering
Nov 09 14:21:27 <kerio> the systemd creator
Nov 09 14:21:30 <Skry> vi_: the man behind pulseaudio and systemd
Nov 09 14:21:31 <DocScrutinizer05> WAAAAH
Nov 09 14:21:31 <kerio> he's also guilty of creating pulseaudio
Nov 09 14:21:33 <Pali> ~wiki lennart poettering
Nov 09 14:21:33 <vi_> I still do not get it.
Nov 09 14:21:37 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox person | name = Lennart Poettering | image = Lennart_Poettering_2012.jpg | alt = | caption = Poettering in 2012 | birth_name = | birth_date = | birth_place = Guatemala City | death_date = | death_place = | nationality = German | other_names = | known_for = Avahi, PulseAudio, systemd | occupation = Software engineer | employer = Red Hat | website = ...
Nov 09 14:21:39 <kerio> vi_: he's a cunt
Nov 09 14:21:46 <vi_> kerio: Gotcha.
Nov 09 14:22:05 <Pali> he destroyed udev
Nov 09 14:22:54 <Skry> no one has destroyed udev
Nov 09 14:23:13 <Skry> it's there, it can be separately buiild and it's already forked
Nov 09 14:23:34 <Pali> "this cancer is extremely poettering"
Nov 09 14:23:35 <Pali> :D
Nov 09 14:23:54 <vi_> why all the hate oin pulse audio?
Nov 09 14:24:06 <Skry> because it's nonsense?
Nov 09 14:24:19 <vi_> If it sucks so much ass, why do all the major distros use it?
Nov 09 14:24:30 <Skry> because it integrates
Nov 09 14:24:34 <Pali> because lennart
Nov 09 14:24:42 <Pali> and because bluetooth
Nov 09 14:24:43 <vi_> but he is a cunt.
Nov 09 14:24:48 <vi_> I still don't get this.
Nov 09 14:24:52 <kerio> upstart was already bad enough
Nov 09 14:25:10 <Pali> upstart is better then systemd
Nov 09 14:25:28 <vi_> which is worse than sysvinit?
Nov 09 14:25:40 <vi_> I don't understand any of this stuff anymore.
Nov 09 14:25:51 <vi_> I am going back under my rock with my debian sarge box.
Nov 09 14:26:35 <Skry> in short: red had and canonical want you linux to be the new windows. for that they both have developers doing stuff the non-traditional way, not following the traditions, because they feel choice is bad.
Nov 09 14:26:39 <Skry> so they integrate
Nov 09 14:26:46 <Skry> lennart happens to be one of them
Nov 09 14:27:24 <Skry> and anyone of you there criticising him, and using gnome, redhad, *buntu are hypocrites
Nov 09 14:27:27 <DocScrutinizer05> couldn't have described it any better
Nov 09 14:28:17 <vi_> I do not think anyone here uses booto.
Nov 09 14:28:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~buntkuh
Nov 09 14:28:18 <infobot> hmm... buntkuh is http://xkcd.com/424/ ... Redmond, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holstein-Rind
Nov 09 14:28:58 <DocScrutinizer05> now I got one more point to justify my dislike of anything starting with g* as well, thanks
Nov 09 14:29:00 <Skry> and all in all, it's not about if the software solutions they create are good or not, systemd is awesome in doing what it should, pulseaudio has become quite good. But in the end, they are the wrong path, ethically and technically
Nov 09 14:29:57 <Skry> systemd will eat everything on it's way, it already can replace fstab and power management.
Nov 09 14:30:16 <jaska> they can pry fstab from my cold dead hands
Nov 09 14:30:22 <kerio> jaska: they will
Nov 09 14:30:24 <vi_> monolithic control everything daemon?
Nov 09 14:30:32 <Skry> vi_: yes
Nov 09 14:30:37 <vi_> sounds terrible.
Nov 09 14:30:40 <DocScrutinizer05> systemd introduced that "we don't need /usr anymore - after all what it's been worth for anyway? It never really worked" bullsh*t
Nov 09 14:30:46 <jaska> next it will be loading ... registry hives.
Nov 09 14:30:53 <Skry> bad thing is, it's actually very good and I like it :D
Nov 09 14:30:56 <jon_y> oh, and it'll use binary sql for registry too right?
Nov 09 14:30:59 <vi_> I thought in unix a program did 1 thing and did it as well as possible.
Nov 09 14:31:13 <kerio> vi_: yeah, but lennart poettering
Nov 09 14:31:34 <vi_> delete /usr?
Nov 09 14:31:40 <vi_> how is that even possible?
Nov 09 14:31:46 <vi_> Where will my programs go?
Nov 09 14:31:46 <jon_y> there was a linux distro that tried that
Nov 09 14:31:55 <jon_y> all that funky /programs instead
Nov 09 14:31:55 <kerio> heh, gobolinux
Nov 09 14:32:00 <jon_y> yes that
Nov 09 14:32:14 <jon_y> I mean, wtf
Nov 09 14:32:19 <vi_>  /program_files
Nov 09 14:32:23 <jon_y> why did they even consider it?
Nov 09 14:32:43 <jon_y> why would n00bs be looking at / anyway?
Nov 09 14:32:43 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: /bin and /sbin move to /usr/(s)bin and /usr is mandatory part of **
Nov 09 14:32:46 <DocScrutinizer05> rootfs**
Nov 09 14:32:57 <Skry> anyways, shit like udev, dbus, udisks are all becoming something that is tailored for systems running systemd, which efficiently leaves us with no device management. udisks2 is already gnome specific, and gnome already depends on systemd
Nov 09 14:33:12 <Skry> and did I mentioin systemd is already in control of user sessions?
Nov 09 14:33:52 <vi_> no dbus?
Nov 09 14:34:00 <DocScrutinizer05> not *yet*
Nov 09 14:34:12 <vi_> this is getting crazy.
Nov 09 14:34:15 <DocScrutinizer05> will take another 3 months
Nov 09 14:34:24 <vi_> How do I script the back end of stuff with no dbus??
Nov 09 14:34:53 <Skry> so in the end red hat and canonical want that there are only on linux system. theirs. for now they can satisfy in two, theirs.
Nov 09 14:35:03 <Skry> one
Nov 09 14:35:15 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: I'm actually amazed it only uses less / $pager to display --help output, not opens a true matchbox X-server to do it completely graphical
Nov 09 14:35:28 <Skry> read the link i pasted last night if you're interested what's happening
Nov 09 14:35:51 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: somebody already suggested to integrate wayland into it :P
Nov 09 14:36:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, you're sure that's not been me, yesterday?
Nov 09 14:36:33 <Skry> might have been :)
Nov 09 14:36:55 <DocScrutinizer05> well, it never been so true:
Nov 09 14:36:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~poettering
Nov 09 14:36:59 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Nov 09 14:37:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lennart is <reply>Lennart is ~Poettering
Nov 09 14:37:49 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Nov 09 14:38:42 <Skry> anyways, I'm not liking these changes, nor am I against it. We're not on BSD so shit can and should actually change, and it's all about the god damn choice after all.
Nov 09 14:38:47 <jon_y> Skry: sounds like they are their own bunch of circle jerks
Nov 09 14:39:04 <Skry> well, money makes jerks
Nov 09 14:39:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: I'd tend to agree with you as long as there's actually any choice
Nov 09 14:39:56 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: true, this major push to force systemd to users is all wrong.
Nov 09 14:40:11 <DocScrutinizer05> for now Suse comes with sysV init as alternative to systemd
Nov 09 14:40:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder when they'll drop support for sysV init
Nov 09 14:40:38 <Skry> I have been thinking about moving back to Gentoo, not sure what should I do though
Nov 09 14:41:46 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe some private equity fond should buy redhat and ruin it for good
Nov 09 14:41:58 <Skry> but yes, I understand systemd can ease alot of maintaining, especially for a small distro. Yes, it does all the shit it does very well and efficiently. But the shit that's taken the whole linux ecosystem is just plain wrong.
Nov 09 14:42:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: systemd forbids /usr
Nov 09 14:42:44 <DocScrutinizer05> partition
Nov 09 14:42:51 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: wot?
Nov 09 14:43:04 <Skry> yes, it resides in /usr/lib
Nov 09 14:43:05 <jon_y> oh, it needs /usr to run?
Nov 09 14:43:10 <jon_y> ok
Nov 09 14:43:12 <vi_> wtf?
Nov 09 14:43:16 <vi_> green charging led?
Nov 09 14:43:25 <vi_> what is going on?
Nov 09 14:43:28 <Skry> :D
Nov 09 14:43:41 <Skry> everything is falling apart! :D
Nov 09 14:43:44 <kerio> vi_: with what?
Nov 09 14:44:04 <vi_> an n900 I have recently taken possesion of, a 2101.
Nov 09 14:44:21 <vi_> I just plugged it into charge and it has a pulsing green charging led.
Nov 09 14:44:26 <vi_> Instead of orange.
Nov 09 14:44:29 <kerio> neat
Nov 09 14:44:34 <jon_y> exorcise it with flasher?
Nov 09 14:44:40 <kerio> broken red LED maybe
Nov 09 14:44:45 <jon_y> likely
Nov 09 14:44:47 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: maybe indicator LED defect
Nov 09 14:44:49 <vi_> jon_y: It is just fresshly fully flashed.
Nov 09 14:44:57 <kerio> otoh i think you can configure mce there
Nov 09 14:44:58 <kerio> so reflash
Nov 09 14:45:05 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: perhaps.
Nov 09 14:45:07 <jon_y> the colr green is made of yellow, and something else
Nov 09 14:45:12 <jon_y> *color
Nov 09 14:45:21 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: try to manually set indicator led to red
Nov 09 14:45:21 <jon_y> for LCDs anyway, not sure about LEDs
Nov 09 14:45:29 <vi_> was there not an anomaly with the original production run of n900?
Nov 09 14:45:39 <DocScrutinizer05> jon_y: yellow is green and red
Nov 09 14:45:57 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: yep
Nov 09 14:46:05 <vi_> Ok, now it is orange?
Nov 09 14:46:05 <DocScrutinizer05> swapped bue and red iirc
Nov 09 14:46:27 <vi_> this is nuts
Nov 09 14:46:36 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: defective FPC?
Nov 09 14:46:40 <vi_> this n900 has so much swag.
Nov 09 14:46:46 <vi_> ~FPC
Nov 09 14:46:56 <DocScrutinizer05> flat plastic cable
Nov 09 14:47:12 <DocScrutinizer05> or flexible plastic connector
Nov 09 14:47:50 <vi_> I need to go check.
Nov 09 14:47:53 <vi_> bbl
Nov 09 14:47:56 <DocScrutinizer05> or flexible PCB cable
Nov 09 14:49:17 <kerio> vi_: have you reflashed it already?
Nov 09 14:49:31 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-11-09 15:44:49] <vi_> jon_y: It is just fresshly fully flashed.
Nov 09 14:49:37 <kerio> then lols
Nov 09 14:49:45 <kerio> have you fullresetted it?
Nov 09 14:49:56 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, won't help
Nov 09 14:50:22 <kerio> Sc0rpius: are you the cleven and yappari dude?
Nov 09 14:50:26 <DocScrutinizer05> battery removal though might be needed, since LP5523 is directly connected to VBAT
Nov 09 14:51:31 <DocScrutinizer05> there have been cases where LP5523 got confused so much that it needed a battery removal to recover
Nov 09 14:53:15 <vi_> this is my stunt n900 anyway.
Nov 09 14:53:24 <vi_> It is a total shitter made from spare parts.
Nov 09 14:53:36 <Sc0rpius> kerio, I'm the Yappari guy, no clue what cleven is
Nov 09 14:53:46 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: check LP5523 selftest result
Nov 09 14:53:51 <kerio> maybe i'm mistaken about that
Nov 09 14:53:54 <kerio> anyway
Nov 09 14:54:06 <vi_> I have found the culprit.
Nov 09 14:54:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ...
Nov 09 14:54:26 <kerio> when are you going to release a new yappari version? i need the alternate server port to connect to whatsapp while on my uni's wifi network
Nov 09 14:55:02 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: ???????????????
Nov 09 14:55:20 <DocScrutinizer05> famous last words?
Nov 09 14:57:50 <vi_> the connector inside the slider that joins the FBC and the LCD was not seated correctly.
Nov 09 14:58:00 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
Nov 09 14:58:02 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
Nov 09 14:58:06 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya
Nov 09 14:58:13 <vi_> Funnily enough, that meant tthe motor did not vibrate at startup.
Nov 09 14:58:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, defects on that cable have *very* weird side effects
Nov 09 14:58:48 <Sc0rpius> kerio: when I finish it... sadly I don't have too much time for it, I have a job and I can dedicate to Yappari less than 2 hours a week
Nov 09 14:58:56 <DocScrutinizer05> AV failing being only one of them
Nov 09 14:59:05 <Sc0rpius> I mean more than 2 hours a week
Nov 09 14:59:33 <vi_> I have bought like 4 n900 this month.
Nov 09 14:59:35 <kerio> Sc0rpius: but it's a really easy change! :'(
Nov 09 14:59:39 <vi_> This is by far the worst.
Nov 09 14:59:54 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: ooh YOU bouhg thtme all >:-(
Nov 09 14:59:58 <vi_> kerio: That will work, play on his emotions with a crying smiley face.
Nov 09 15:00:00 <DocScrutinizer05> bought*
Nov 09 15:00:13 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: I think I have a problem.
Nov 09 15:00:20 <kerio> vi_: yeah, you have too few n900s
Nov 09 15:00:21 <kerio> buy some more
Nov 09 15:00:36 <Skry> giev
Nov 09 15:00:49 <vi_> kerio: I am looking for 1 more.
Nov 09 15:00:56 <vi_> Mint condition.
Nov 09 15:01:02 <vi_> Still with factory screen foil.
Nov 09 15:01:11 <kerio> the one i bought still had it :D
Nov 09 15:01:21 <vi_> kerio: My current one had it too.
Nov 09 15:01:26 <vi_> It is quite remarkable.
Nov 09 15:01:27 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: was that problem something new, or an explanation why you're buying all available N900?
Nov 09 15:01:33 <kerio> this reminds me, i should change the screen protector
Nov 09 15:01:58 <vi_> It is over 1 year old now but it is still in brilliant condition compared to all the second hand ones I get.
Nov 09 15:02:18 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: I need to stop sinking my monies into obsolete hardware.
Nov 09 15:02:29 <DocScrutinizer05> I got same problem
Nov 09 15:02:45 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: My damn motorcycle is ~27 years old.
Nov 09 15:02:56 <DocScrutinizer05> but then, you have to sink your money somewhere ;-D
Nov 09 15:03:06 <vi_> lol I dunno, a mortgage?
Nov 09 15:03:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and there's no worthwhile new hw
Nov 09 15:03:38 <vi_> It is a concept I have a hard time explaining.
Nov 09 15:03:47 <vi_> And even understanding to a certain extent.
Nov 09 15:04:09 <vi_> That is the problem with becoming a connoisseur.
Nov 09 15:04:24 <DocScrutinizer05> I have the explanation that both me and my N900 feel better in company of other N900
Nov 09 15:04:26 <vi_> Your demands become harder and harder to fulfil.
Nov 09 15:04:56 <vi_> Til eventually only $300 XO is as low as you will go.
Nov 09 15:05:32 <vi_> How do you pull source code from the maemo garage repos?
Nov 09 15:05:56 <vi_> For example, I want to modify the behaviour of simple brightness statusbar plugin.
Nov 09 15:06:11 <DocScrutinizer05> good plan, I had same
Nov 09 15:06:19 <vi_> Do I just wget the source package or is there a proper way of doing it?
Nov 09 15:06:33 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug:
Nov 09 15:06:33 <Skry> about the useless but still worthy NEW hardware, this is what I've been waiting for quite some years.. http://www.natami.net/
Nov 09 15:06:34 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Change shortpress to screen always on by any chance?
Nov 09 15:07:09 <vi_> Skry: amiga...
Nov 09 15:07:20 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, make longpress only act on release
Nov 09 15:07:36 <DocScrutinizer05> so it doesn't vamish and create click on random other stuff
Nov 09 15:07:45 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Nice.
Nov 09 15:07:46 <Skry> vi_: yes
Nov 09 15:08:09 <vi_> Also, press and hold menus in hildon to the left of the pressure point.
Nov 09 15:08:25 <vi_> And finally, status menu in task manager screen.
Nov 09 15:08:53 <vi_> #cssu-testing, prepare for amatuerish patches.
Nov 09 15:08:53 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: also pondered adding some "config" options to adjust ALS "gamma"
Nov 09 15:09:04 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: Is that even possible?
Nov 09 15:09:15 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly no simple way
Nov 09 15:09:17 <vi_> I thought it was controlled by a closed source component.
Nov 09 15:09:23 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 09 15:09:25 <DocScrutinizer05> mce
Nov 09 15:09:31 <vi_> MCE!!!
Nov 09 15:10:26 <Skry> btw is there any up to date list of closed parts of maemo?
Nov 09 15:10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Nov 09 15:10:38 <vi_> :q
Nov 09 15:10:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~closed
Nov 09 15:10:40 <infobot> methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
Nov 09 15:10:41 <Skry> I'm having hard time finding anything from *.maemo.org
Nov 09 15:11:36 <Pali> Skry: https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
Nov 09 15:12:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal closed
Nov 09 15:12:08 <infobot> "closed" is "http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages"
Nov 09 15:12:44 <Skry> thanks guys
Nov 09 15:12:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
Nov 09 15:12:46 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Nov 09 15:12:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~forget closed
Nov 09 15:12:56 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: i forgot closed
Nov 09 15:13:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ~closed
Nov 09 15:13:04 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
Nov 09 15:13:56 <Skry> didn't quite realize the list is _that_ long..
Nov 09 15:14:40 <Pali> jonwil, hi
Nov 09 15:15:01 <Pali> my idea it shat systemui actdeating plugin is for ACT DEAD mode
Nov 09 15:15:09 <jonwil> yes probably
Nov 09 15:15:21 <Pali> e.g, when you connect charger to n900 which is turned off
Nov 09 15:15:35 <Pali> and I think this plugin handle poweroff
Nov 09 15:16:46 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, you need some battery surveilance even in act_dead
Nov 09 15:16:52 <kerio> fuck, i have a tiny bit of dust below my new screen protector
Nov 09 15:17:09 <DocScrutinizer05> where no hildon desktop and thus no status applet is running
Nov 09 15:17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: bathroom, create lots of fog by rnning the shower on hot temperature
Nov 09 15:18:00 <DocScrutinizer05> best 'cleanroom' you can get at home
Nov 09 15:19:09 <kerio> hm, how does that work?
Nov 09 15:19:22 <kerio> won't there still be dust around?
Nov 09 15:19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> the fog should wash out all dust from air, and fix it to ground
Nov 09 15:20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> sure you got fog drops instead, but those don't matter for your particular purpose
Nov 09 15:21:14 <kerio> hrmpf, i'd have to wash the screen protector with alcohol too
Nov 09 15:21:27 <kerio> well, with soap and then alcohol
Nov 09 15:22:27 <kerio> otoh, i've been having a dead ant inside of my laptop's LCD for a long time
Nov 09 15:22:47 <kerio> so idk if i feel it's worth fixing that speck of dust
Nov 09 15:23:26 <Skry> probably not
Nov 09 15:25:40 <Pali> WTF?? somebody started working on modest again, see: https://gitorious.org/modest
Nov 09 15:29:33 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: in LCD those aren't usually ants but small flies we call "Gewittertierchen" here
Nov 09 15:29:55 <kerio> hm, maybe
Nov 09 15:29:56 <kerio> i don't remember
Nov 09 15:31:16 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.google.de/search?q=gewittertierchen
Nov 09 15:32:23 <DocScrutinizer05> (Thysanoptera)
Nov 09 15:33:16 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you can't fix dust that's already sticking on foil sticky side
Nov 09 15:33:26 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: of course you can
Nov 09 15:33:31 <kerio> wash it with soap
Nov 09 15:33:46 <kerio> then sink in alcohol and let dry
Nov 09 15:33:52 <DocScrutinizer05> never heard of anybody succeeding with that
Nov 09 15:34:05 <kerio> i did, with my previous screen protector :)
Nov 09 15:34:16 <kerio> it doesn't have glue, mind you
Nov 09 15:34:29 <DocScrutinizer05> nice, learning sth new today :-)
Nov 09 15:37:26 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, I feel like a tuna sandwich, have to get some aspirin before they hit me with council duties
Nov 09 15:38:31 <DocScrutinizer05> :-S
Nov 09 15:38:45 <DocScrutinizer05> bbl
Nov 09 15:39:56 <Skry> in addition to earlier talk about things done wrong, from the news: "Matthias Clasen on the behalf of the GNOME Release Team has announced that they have decided to eliminate GNOME's "fallback mode" with the upcoming 3.8 release"
Nov 09 15:41:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm so happy I never particularly liked gnome
Nov 09 15:41:32 <DocScrutinizer05> always been waaaay too windowsy for me
Nov 09 15:44:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm too pride to take crap redmond stuff as a design goal to emulate
Nov 09 15:44:29 <Skry> mm, always disliked it too. then again, I disliked kde4 too at first.
Nov 09 15:45:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I still dislike kde4 for it's terrible (missing) stability
Nov 09 15:45:37 <DocScrutinizer05> getting worse with each update
Nov 09 15:45:56 <DocScrutinizer05> kde3 been awesome
Nov 09 15:46:18 <DocScrutinizer05> in a sentimantal mood I sometimes ponder rolling back to kde3
Nov 09 15:47:10 <DocScrutinizer05> plasma my ass
Nov 09 15:47:14 <kerio> haha
Nov 09 15:47:33 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: you might want to check out trinity project then
Nov 09 15:47:40 <kerio> i should learn how to use xmonad
Nov 09 15:47:52 <Skry> kde4 been stable for me
Nov 09 15:48:08 <Skry> kerio: or i3, possibly awesome, both are great
Nov 09 15:48:54 <Skry> I actually run awesome on my N900 arch install
Nov 09 16:02:53 <Pali> maemo wiki not working
Nov 09 16:03:27 <Pali> when I'm trying to edit page it show: http://pastebin.com/eumfxmBa
Nov 09 16:03:42 <Pali> wiki.meego.com is down
Nov 09 16:03:54 <Pali> so wiki.maemo.org going too?
Nov 09 16:07:56 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Nov 09 16:09:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: opening for edit WFM. Did you get this on opening or on saving?
Nov 09 16:09:37 <Pali> after click submit
Nov 09 16:09:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Nov 09 16:09:45 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=N900_Hardware_Subsystems&action=edit
Nov 09 16:09:48 <DocScrutinizer05> works
Nov 09 16:10:11 <Pali> did you tried to save?
Nov 09 16:10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> >>User account "Joerg rw" is not registered. Please check if you want to create/edit this page.<< :-/
Nov 09 16:11:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, confirmed
Nov 09 16:11:42 <DocScrutinizer05> bug
Nov 09 16:11:55 <DocScrutinizer05> blows chunks on "save"
Nov 09 16:12:27 <DocScrutinizer05> X-Fade: PING
Nov 09 16:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> X-Fade: I never really understood who's maintainer of wiki
Nov 09 16:13:05 <DocScrutinizer05> X-Fade: anyway we'd need him *now*
Nov 09 16:13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619a: ^^^^
Nov 09 16:14:50 <Pali> maybe andre__ has some permissions?
Nov 09 16:16:29 <Pali> I'm trying to edit https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages but it still show me error: http://pastebin.com/eumfxmBa
Nov 09 16:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1291865#post1291865
Nov 09 16:18:00 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-11-07 22:22:29] <DocScrutinizer05> I guess rotting creeping in meanwhile, otherwise how would they manage to get the whole infra down to its knees til end of December?
Nov 09 16:18:53 <Pali> we need backup of wiki?
Nov 09 16:19:26 <Pali> meego wiki is down... has somebody backup of it?
Nov 09 16:20:14 <Skry> might be a good idea to start backupping just about everything..
Nov 09 16:22:59 <DocScrutinizer05> this has been started resp planned since quite a number of months now
Nov 09 16:23:12 <qwazix> vi__, ping
Nov 09 16:23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hi qwazix
Nov 09 16:23:30 <qwazix> hi DocScrutinizer05
Nov 09 16:23:37 <DocScrutinizer05> don't miss meeting 18:00 UTC!
Nov 09 16:23:44 <qwazix> of course not
Nov 09 16:23:49 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Nov 09 16:24:41 <amospalla> hi, Im new here, and I think I'll stay for some time
Nov 09 16:24:54 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: you have any idea what is going to happen? I mean, there already was talk about losing tmo and such somewhere, not that I believe such thing should happen but anyways, it would be nice to know something.
Nov 09 16:25:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: eh? you're aware of Hildon Foundation?
Nov 09 16:26:19 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I'm not aware what has been planned or what is happening though
Nov 09 16:26:44 <DocScrutinizer05> H-F aka "the board" is all about handing over all maemo infra from Nokia/Nemein to "community"
Nov 09 16:27:19 <DocScrutinizer05> it seems for everything but tmo things are pretty clear and on their path
Nov 09 16:27:49 <DocScrutinizer05> tmo is a bit special since it's not hosted nor owned by Nokia/Nemein
Nov 09 16:28:21 <DocScrutinizer05> actually tmo is still a sub-forum of internettablettalk.com
Nov 09 16:28:37 <Skry> ah, ok, thanks. many seem to expect some sort of trouble from this transition so I just had to ask.
Nov 09 16:28:45 <DocScrutinizer05> run by reggie iirc
Nov 09 16:29:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I expect trouble but hope for the best ;-D
Nov 09 16:29:11 <vi__> qwazix: poong
Nov 09 16:30:28 <qwazix> vi__, if you make a dbus script that runs when the powerbutton is pressed, checks if the screen is on and sends the unlock dbus command, you have double click to unlock 
Nov 09 16:30:44 <vi__> correct.
Nov 09 16:30:44 <qwazix> I did it accidentally when coding an app
Nov 09 16:31:06 <vi__> how do I intercept and act on this dbus script?
Nov 09 16:31:24 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: same here :) btw congrats for your place in council, I kinda wished you'd get elected :)
Nov 09 16:31:49 <qwazix> I was writing qt, but I assume that it can be done with dbus-scripts package
Nov 09 16:31:59 <vi__> BOOM
Nov 09 16:32:05 <qwazix> Don't think you have to intercept it or something
Nov 09 16:32:14 <vi__> dbus-scripts is a battery eater.
Nov 09 16:32:22 <qwazix> orly?
Nov 09 16:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: I kinda wish I wasn't elected - which actually I'm not right now. But then there was no election at all, so...
Nov 09 16:32:28 <vi__> rly
Nov 09 16:32:40 <qwazix> bummer. Didn't know tht
Nov 09 16:32:47 <qwazix> s/tht/that/
Nov 09 16:32:56 <infobot> qwazix meant: bummer. Didn't know that
Nov 09 16:33:15 <vi__> it causes ~1500 wakeups/30s
Nov 09 16:33:36 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: how's dbus-scripts eating battery?
Nov 09 16:33:52 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Nov 09 16:34:15 <DocScrutinizer05> not here (1500 wakeups)
Nov 09 16:34:22 <vi__> however, shortcutd could be modified to listen for power button.
Nov 09 16:34:27 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: No?
Nov 09 16:34:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm running dbus-scripting on my device since >2 years now
Nov 09 16:34:51 <vi__> well, I have not checked it out for 1 year.
Nov 09 16:34:54 <DocScrutinizer05> should've noticed any sich behaviour
Nov 09 16:35:03 <DocScrutinizer05> such*
Nov 09 16:35:26 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: you get ~3mA offline idle current?
Nov 09 16:35:52 <DocScrutinizer05>   774 ?        Ss     1:03 /usr/sbin/dbus-scripts --system
Nov 09 16:36:09 <vi__> mmm
Nov 09 16:36:15 <qwazix> dunno if it's relevant but in fact I expected more battery life when I had dbus scripts keep wifi and 3g mutually exclusively on
Nov 09 16:36:34 <vi__> maybe I should check it out again.
Nov 09 16:36:53 <vi__> qwazix: I just use 2G all the time !
Nov 09 16:37:03 <kerio> i don't have 2G :(
Nov 09 16:37:28 <qwazix> I don't use the N900 as a phone. So if I have wifi, any cellular is useless
Nov 09 16:37:42 <qwazix> so I turn it off
Nov 09 16:39:50 <DocScrutinizer05> powertop not showing any noteworthy details around dbus-scripts
Nov 09 16:40:51 <DocScrutinizer05> also CPU time ratio between dbus-scripts and dbus-daemon (18:12) doesn't make me ponder to blame scripts of anything
Nov 09 16:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05>   758 ?        S<s   18:12 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork
Nov 09 16:41:24 <DocScrutinizer05>   774 ?        Ss     1:03 /usr/sbin/dbus-scripts --system
Nov 09 16:42:32 <vi__> qwazix: but the phone is the only aspect that makes the n900 worth while!
Nov 09 16:42:41 <ZogG_laptop> qwazix: hey
Nov 09 16:42:56 <qwazix> ZogG_laptop, hey
Nov 09 16:43:03 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: mazal tov on being council. do you fell you have bigger balls
Nov 09 16:43:27 <qwazix> vi__, I prefer harmattan or symbian for phone functions...
Nov 09 16:43:32 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: try running pwertop in offline mode and comparing it with results of offline mode+dbus-scripts stopped.
Nov 09 16:43:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I suffer from a big hurting head
Nov 09 16:43:32 <ZogG_laptop> qwazix: btw i was surprised good that u is council too :P
Nov 09 16:43:50 <vi__> qwazix: symbian I can understand.
Nov 09 16:44:04 <qwazix> ZogG_laptop, thanks, I'd like to help as much as possible
Nov 09 16:45:09 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: I don't think 20h of IRC via WLAN in standby mode are any good argument to start investigations on dbus-scripts
Nov 09 16:45:28 <vi__> qwazix: what is going to happen to the maemo repos when nokia pulls the plug?
Nov 09 16:45:33 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: ok.
Nov 09 16:45:49 <ZogG_laptop> qwazix: i know that's why i was glad
Nov 09 16:46:08 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: and actually, how should dbus-scripts cause such cpu hogging? after all it's just waiting for dbus msgs like every other dbus user
Nov 09 16:47:16 <qwazix> vi__, not that the N900 is a bad phone, but I tend to break it (software) from time to time, or end up without battery, so I want a second phone. Bout the repos I hope that we manage the transition flawlessly, but till now I know prolly not much more than you, waiting for the meeting to get briefed better.
Nov 09 16:47:19 <DocScrutinizer05> if of course you'd be silly enough to trigger a dbus msg/signal in a dbus-script that gets triggered by that dbus msg/signal....
Nov 09 16:49:13 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: I once made the mistake to place a shellscript into /etc/dbus-scripts.d/*
Nov 09 16:49:32 <DocScrutinizer05> which did more damage than only a few wakeups
Nov 09 16:49:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it was a veritable forkbomb
Nov 09 16:50:26 <andre__> Pali, I can protect pages by setting Edit to "Allow all users" | "Block new and unregistered users" | "Admins only"
Nov 09 16:50:45 <andre__> but Fremantle_closed_packages says "Allow all users"
Nov 09 16:50:47 <DocScrutinizer05> andre__: who's asmin on that wiki box?
Nov 09 16:50:51 <DocScrutinizer05> admin*
Nov 09 16:50:56 <andre__> (and I'd love to share permissions, by the way, but have no idea how)
Nov 09 16:51:02 <andre__> DocScrutinizer05, I don't know
Nov 09 16:51:19 <andre__> uh yay
Nov 09 16:51:30 <andre__> I just see that I am member of the group "Administrators".
Nov 09 16:51:47 <andre__> so let me find out how to make more people admins, after I've bought milk for breakfast.
Nov 09 16:51:52 <DocScrutinizer05> andre__: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1291865#post1291865 ff
Nov 09 16:51:55 <kerio> qwazix: just buy another n900 to be a backup :D
Nov 09 16:54:14 <Pali> andre__, see: http://wikis.evergreen.edu/computing/index.php/Add_User_to_Access_Group_-_Mediawiki
Nov 09 16:54:15 <vi___> 267 nicks!!! HOLY SHIT.
Nov 09 16:54:26 <vi___> how do I add a user to the sudoers file?
Nov 09 16:55:00 <vi___> wait...
Nov 09 16:55:06 <vi___> I have to restart X?
Nov 09 16:55:11 <vi___> ffs
Nov 09 16:55:44 <qwazix> kerio, I prefer the combination N9+N900 best of both worlds
Nov 09 16:55:45 <Pali> update-sudoers<something>
Nov 09 17:01:09 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: add file to /etc/sudoers.d/*, then run update-sudoers
Nov 09 17:02:28 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: ooooh, a N9 user in council. Much appreciated :-)
Nov 09 17:02:48 * Lava_Croft high fives qwazix 
Nov 09 17:02:50 <Lava_Croft> Very correct!
Nov 09 17:05:31 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: do *NOT* edit /etc/sudoers !
Nov 09 17:08:15 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05, Lava_Croft, thanks, I hadn't realized it's such a rare thing to be a N9 user
Nov 09 17:08:41 <kerio> of course it's a rare thing
Nov 09 17:08:44 <kerio> harmattan sucks
Nov 09 17:08:45 <DocScrutinizer05> not a rare thing, but nevertheless welcome in council
Nov 09 17:08:46 * kerio flees
Nov 09 17:10:31 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05, glad to be here, I'd say welcome to you too but it feels inappropriate considering the years you have been contributing
Nov 09 17:10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, nevermind
Nov 09 17:11:12 <kerio> btw, what was the deal with E*_ and the last council?
Nov 09 17:11:30 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm? you're kidding?
Nov 09 17:11:42 <kerio> i wasn't following the community during that period
Nov 09 17:11:49 * NIN101 neither
Nov 09 17:12:03 <kerio> i only had my old n900 with the broken usb port as my only phone, so i couldn't actually dick around with it
Nov 09 17:12:21 <andre__> Whoah.
Nov 09 17:12:24 <andre__> Manage user groups: Enter a username: andre
Nov 09 17:12:24 <andre__> =>There is no user by the name "andre". Check your spelling. 
Nov 09 17:12:30 <andre__> this is all broken.
Nov 09 17:12:41 <kerio> which wiki engine is it anyway? mediawiki?
Nov 09 17:12:52 <andre__> MediaWiki, yeah
Nov 09 17:13:16 <Pali> http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ is down too
Nov 09 17:13:33 <DocScrutinizer05> andre__: the error suggests there's more to fix than mere wiki-internal admin, needs root I'd guess
Nov 09 17:13:55 <andre__> DocScrutinizer05, sounds like
Nov 09 17:14:12 <Pali> we should immediately backup http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/
Nov 09 17:14:19 <Pali> what will be next?
Nov 09 17:14:42 <vi__> kerio: estel used to be cool.
Nov 09 17:14:54 <andre__> MediaWiki 1.15.5-2squeeze4. Now that's ancient.
Nov 09 17:14:55 <vi__> kerio: Then he turned into a total d-bag.
Nov 09 17:15:14 <Pali> harmattan is down, meego wiki is down, maemo wiki not working correctly, ...
Nov 09 17:15:21 <vi__> kerio: Now he goes out of his way to spoil everything for everyone.
Nov 09 17:15:32 <ZogG_laptop> Pali: the world is falling apart
Nov 09 17:15:37 <vi__> Pali: is this the end?
Nov 09 17:15:53 <Pali> end of harmattan of cource
Nov 09 17:16:03 <Pali> and maybe end of maemo too
Nov 09 17:16:14 <kerio> 9/11 NEVAR FORGET
Nov 09 17:16:31 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-11-07 22:22:29] <DocScrutinizer05> I guess rotting creeping in meanwhile, otherwise how would they manage to get the whole infra down to its knees til end of December?
Nov 09 17:16:31 <vi__> Pali: are the fremantle repos down?
Nov 09 17:16:39 <Pali> not yet
Nov 09 17:16:45 <vi__> fucking hell.
Nov 09 17:16:52 <vi__> How do I mirror them??
Nov 09 17:17:00 <Pali> fremantle is working
Nov 09 17:17:04 <kerio> vi__: merlin1991 has a mirror
Nov 09 17:17:07 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: the repos are secured
Nov 09 17:17:19 <Pali> we have fremantle backup
Nov 09 17:17:27 <vi__> im freakin' out here man.
Nov 09 17:17:55 <vi__> if the repos went down...
Nov 09 17:17:56 <kerio> if you have a N900 you're still safe, if you have a N700 or a N8x0 buy a N900
Nov 09 17:18:08 <vi__> well that would be it.
Nov 09 17:18:31 <kerio> vi__: merlin has a light extras-devel repo
Nov 09 17:18:35 <vi__> kerio: BUT I NEED 2 FULL SIZE SD SLOTS AND A DPAD.
Nov 09 17:18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, indeed. What about my N810s
Nov 09 17:18:50 <kerio> vi__: THEN BUY AN OPENPANDORA
Nov 09 17:18:53 <kerio> IT IS GOOD
Nov 09 17:18:58 <Pali> diablo and older are backup too
Nov 09 17:19:06 <vi__> kerio: does it have gsm?
Nov 09 17:19:06 <DocScrutinizer05> \o/
Nov 09 17:19:18 <Pali> but we need to backup FWs: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/
Nov 09 17:19:23 <kerio> vi__: you only said dual SD and dpad
Nov 09 17:19:44 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: I got a "mirror" of those
Nov 09 17:19:56 <DocScrutinizer05> *-last at least
Nov 09 17:19:58 <vi__> Pali: I assumed we all had our private stash of those.
Nov 09 17:20:25 <vi__> what channel is council meeting?
Nov 09 17:20:27 <kerio> vi__: i've got PR1.3 global combined and PR1.3 vanilla
Nov 09 17:20:33 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, everything from tablets-dev?
Nov 09 17:20:35 <kerio> #maemo-meeting
Nov 09 17:21:08 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: everything latest
Nov 09 17:21:28 <vi__> Nokia...why?
Nov 09 17:21:31 <Pali> ok
Nov 09 17:21:39 <vi__> I was a loyal customer for years.
Nov 09 17:21:42 <DocScrutinizer05> please stop panic mode!
Nov 09 17:21:50 <vi__> dont panic!
Nov 09 17:21:54 <vi__> DONT PANIC||
Nov 09 17:22:13 <kerio> STOP PANICKING DAMMIT
Nov 09 17:22:36 <DocScrutinizer05> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-11-01.log.html#t2012-11-01T15:40:45
Nov 09 17:25:09 <kerio> i seriously want an openpandora :(
Nov 09 17:25:16 <kerio> wesnoth is really slow on the n900
Nov 09 18:06:42 <vi___> what is the best way to pull source code from maemo garage?
Nov 09 18:07:40 <vi___> Pali: ping
Nov 09 18:31:58 <Luke-Jr> hmm, any reason these dual battery hacks wouldn't work with genuine Nokia batteries, now that the ones they used are gone?
Nov 09 18:34:53 <ShadowJK> no reason
Nov 09 18:35:10 <ShadowJK> They just used the highest proven capacity batteries
Nov 09 18:36:04 <kerio> ShadowJK: btw, what's the best BL-5J as of now?
Nov 09 18:37:26 <kolp> Polarcell, afaik
Nov 09 18:37:45 <ShadowJK> check dr_frost's thread on tmo
Nov 09 18:38:26 <vi___> Luke-Jr: Polar cell is still available.
Nov 09 18:38:41 <Luke-Jr> vi___: in the US?
Nov 09 18:38:41 <vi___> The one I have is 1493mAh.
Nov 09 18:38:53 <vi___> Luke-Jr: Sorry, it is in germany.
Nov 09 18:39:11 <vi___> There are still 'blue' scuds on alieexpress.
Nov 09 18:39:17 <Luke-Jr> ?
Nov 09 18:39:30 <Luke-Jr> blue = good ones?
Nov 09 18:39:33 <vi___> That claim to be the 1420mAh (1500mAh).
Nov 09 18:39:51 <vi___> Luke-Jr: Blue scuds where the original 'holy fuck this battery is insane' battery.
Nov 09 18:40:02 <vi___> 1500mAh.
Nov 09 18:40:17 <vi___> As it is from china, they will offer VERY cheap shipping to the US,
Nov 09 18:40:34 <vi___> However, as with anything from china, it is a gamble as to what you actually get.
Nov 09 18:40:44 <vi___> In addition to that...
Nov 09 18:40:50 <vi___> You need to think BIGGER.
Nov 09 18:41:16 <vi___> Why join a 1500mAh to a 1500mAh when you can joi a 1500mAh to 1900mAh?
Nov 09 18:41:24 <Luke-Jr> ?
Nov 09 18:41:39 <vi___> Luke-Jr: Nokia make a battery called the bp-4l.
Nov 09 18:41:51 <vi___> It was used in the n8x0 series.
Nov 09 18:42:11 <vi___> After market bp-4l goes up to 1900 mAh (see mugen).
Nov 09 18:42:23 <vi___> a bp-4l will fit in the space of a mugen cover.
Nov 09 18:42:27 <Luke-Jr> hmm
Nov 09 18:42:30 <vi___> ya follow?
Nov 09 18:42:33 <Luke-Jr> I think so.
Nov 09 18:42:41 <vi___> of course no one has done it before.
Nov 09 18:42:43 <Luke-Jr> does it still leave me room to include a payment tag inside? :P
Nov 09 18:42:48 <Luke-Jr> o
Nov 09 18:42:48 <vi___> That means you must be the first.
Nov 09 18:42:57 <vi___> You know, for science n' shit.
Nov 09 18:43:17 <Luke-Jr> well, I'm no electronics expert… I thought mixing different kind of batteries is asking for trouble/
Nov 09 18:43:20 <vi___> Luke-Jr: possibly, how big is this payment tag?
Nov 09 18:43:54 <vi___> Luke-Jr: Yes, however these are 2 cells of the same chemistry in parallell.
Nov 09 18:44:10 <vi___> ls
Nov 09 18:44:13 <vi___> ls
Nov 09 18:44:21 <vi___> oops wrong xterm
Nov 09 18:44:29 <Luke-Jr> vi___: 1 inch by 2 inches
Nov 09 18:44:35 <kerio> yeah but how will charging work
Nov 09 18:44:40 <vi___> GODAMMIT, USE METRIC.
Nov 09 18:44:44 <Luke-Jr> vi___: I had it fit under the stock battery before
Nov 09 18:44:51 <Luke-Jr> vi___: metric sucks.
Nov 09 18:44:57 <vi___> Luke-Jr: how fat is it?
Nov 09 18:44:59 <vi___> ORLY?
Nov 09 18:45:10 <vi___> you know only 3 countries still use imperial.
Nov 09 18:45:12 <Luke-Jr> thin enough it fit between the stock battery and stock cover
Nov 09 18:45:14 <vi___> USA
Nov 09 18:45:17 <vi___> liberia
Nov 09 18:45:20 <Luke-Jr> vi___: I use tonal, but I don't expect you to understand that :P
Nov 09 18:45:23 <vi___> and burma.
Nov 09 18:45:31 <Luke-Jr> vi___: not a single country has adopted metric FREELY
Nov 09 18:45:31 <vi___> wherever the bumfuck that is.
Nov 09 18:45:51 <vi___> Metric rules.
Nov 09 18:45:53 <Luke-Jr> 5x2.5x1 mm
Nov 09 18:46:00 <Luke-Jr> sorry, decimal sucks
Nov 09 18:46:03 <vi___> There is literally no reason to ever use imperial.
Nov 09 18:46:10 <vi___> decimal sucks??????
Nov 09 18:46:17 <ShadowJK> The mugen BP-4L is about 1200mAh. :)
Nov 09 18:46:31 <vi___> this is nuts, next you will say octal 4 life.
Nov 09 18:46:38 <Luke-Jr> 5x3 tonal metertons ;)
Nov 09 18:46:45 <Luke-Jr> vi___: tonal
Nov 09 18:46:53 <Luke-Jr> http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Nov 09 18:46:54 <vi___> ShadowJK: then perhaps i meant a different one.
Nov 09 18:47:03 <vi___> so 1mm deep.
Nov 09 18:47:16 <ShadowJK> vi___, no it says "1800" on it, iirc, but it's not
Nov 09 18:47:25 <Luke-Jr> after tonal, dozenal
Nov 09 18:47:26 <kerio> vi___: to be fair, mks sucks
Nov 09 18:47:33 <vi___> ShadowJK: Well thats lame.
Nov 09 18:47:41 <Luke-Jr> inches are approximately the dozenal zenigrafut unit
Nov 09 18:47:52 <Luke-Jr> so at least somewhat reasonable
Nov 09 18:47:55 <vi___> however the nokia one is now 1650 I believe.
Nov 09 18:48:11 <vi___> Well I like to measure stuff in cubits and rods.
Nov 09 18:48:15 <vi___> Deal with it.
Nov 09 18:48:27 <ShadowJK> A Pisen BP-4L I got from dealextreme measured up at around 1400-1500
Nov 09 18:48:40 <vi___> anyway!
Nov 09 18:48:44 <Luke-Jr> base 5*2 < base 3*2*2 < base 2*2*2*2
Nov 09 18:48:48 <vi___> the blue scud is 6.5mm deep
Nov 09 18:48:57 <kerio> vi___: let's use planck units
Nov 09 18:49:01 <vi___> the original bl-5j is ~5mm deep.
Nov 09 18:49:18 <vi___> the bp-4l is ~4.5mm deep.
Nov 09 18:50:15 <vi___> So assuming a person can stack 2x scuds in a mugen cover (13mm) one can assume you could fit a scud+bp-4l+tag(12mm)
Nov 09 18:50:48 <vi___> However these measurements are from memory so you would need to check.
Nov 09 18:51:00 <vi___> except for the scud, it is definatley 6.5m.
Nov 09 18:51:49 <Pali> vi___, pong
Nov 09 18:51:50 <vi___> However if you peeled of the lavel you might save 0.5mm
Nov 09 18:51:56 <vi___> hello pali.
Nov 09 18:52:07 <vi___> I am trying to complile something.
Nov 09 18:52:11 <Pali> you want to backup garage project?
Nov 09 18:52:47 <vi___> actually I want to know what the appropriate way to download source code from maemo garage is.
Nov 09 18:52:56 <vi___> surely I do not have to wget it?
Nov 09 18:53:16 <vi___> The manually wget all the dependent headers and manually copy them somewhere?
Nov 09 18:54:09 <Pali> open project page and clone it git repository
Nov 09 18:54:19 <vi___> ...
Nov 09 18:54:25 <vi___> how do I do that?
Nov 09 18:55:08 <Pali> look at kernel-power: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/kernel-power/
Nov 09 18:55:12 <Pali> there is button SCM
Nov 09 18:55:28 <Pali> and here are instruction how to clone git repo
Nov 09 18:55:37 <Pali> git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/kernel-power
Nov 09 18:58:41 <vi___> ok
Nov 09 18:58:52 <vi___> I cannot find simple brightness applet
Nov 09 18:59:37 <vi___> aaaaah
Nov 09 19:00:19 <vi___>  git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/sbrightapplet
Nov 09 19:00:19 <vi___> Initialize sbrightapplet/.git
Nov 09 19:00:19 <vi___> Initialized empty Git repository in /home/paul/SBA/sbrightapplet/.git/
Nov 09 19:00:19 <vi___> error: error setting certificate verify locations:
Nov 09 19:00:19 <vi___>   CAfile: /usr/share/curl/curl-ca-bundle.crt
Nov 09 19:00:21 <vi___>   CApath: none
Nov 09 19:00:24 <vi___> warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.
Nov 09 19:01:14 <vi___> so dont use https
Nov 09 19:01:17 <vi___> use http
Nov 09 19:01:41 <vi___> Pali: This was not created using autotools
Nov 09 19:01:52 <vi___> it has 'autogen.sh'
Nov 09 19:02:01 <vi___> and 'antigen.sh'
Nov 09 19:02:11 <Pali> ./autogen.sh
Nov 09 19:02:34 <Pali> dpkg-buildpackage -b -rfakeroot
Nov 09 19:02:56 <vi___> Please add the files codeset.m4 gettext.m4 glibc21.m4 iconv.m4 isc-posix.m4 lcmessage.m4 progtest.m4
Nov 09 19:02:59 <vi___> from the /aclocal directory to your autoconf macro directory
Nov 09 19:03:01 <vi___> or directly to your aclocal.m4 file.
Nov 09 19:03:04 <vi___> You will also need config.guess and config.sub, which you can get from
Nov 09 19:03:06 <vi___> ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/config/.
Nov 09 19:08:02 <vi___> Pali: what is libiphb0 do you know?
Nov 09 19:08:18 <vi___> The whole dependency tree seems to be broken due to it not existing.
Nov 09 19:08:39 <Pali> libiphb0 is library for ip heartback daemon
Nov 09 19:08:50 <Pali> it is in nokia binaries repository
Nov 09 19:09:11 <vi___> how do I get it?
Nov 09 19:09:16 <Pali> it is automatically installed
Nov 09 19:09:23 <Pali> in scratchbox
Nov 09 19:09:34 <Pali> make sure you are compiling for armel target
Nov 09 19:09:48 <Pali> (no idea if library is also available for i386)
Nov 09 19:09:55 <vi___> possibly not.
Nov 09 19:10:10 <vi___> If I compile for the armel, can I still test it on my PC?
Nov 09 19:10:19 <vi___> or do I have to upload it to an n900?
Nov 09 19:11:20 <vi___> apt-get install automake1.10
Nov 09 19:11:49 <vi___> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: automake1.10
Nov 09 19:11:58 <vi___> ^how to fix this?
Nov 09 19:13:31 <vi___> Pali: what package provides automake?
Nov 09 19:13:42 <Pali> automake or automaken
Nov 09 19:13:54 <Pali> but automake is part of scratchbox
Nov 09 19:14:10 <Pali> do you really has correct scratchbox installation?
Nov 09 19:14:25 <vi___> Pali: I am starting to question that.
Nov 09 19:14:32 <vi___> I followed the wiki :/
Nov 09 19:15:16 <vi___> Pali: according to apt-cache ther is automake 1.4-1.10
Nov 09 19:15:29 <vi___> Pali: according to apt-cache ther is automake 1.4-1.9
Nov 09 19:15:37 <vi___> there is no automake 1.10
Nov 09 19:17:49 <Pali> use 1.4-1.10
Nov 09 19:18:18 <vi___> I meant there is versions 1.4 through to 1.9
Nov 09 19:18:26 <vi___> There is no 1.10
Nov 09 19:41:21 <fastlane> hmmm
Nov 09 19:41:27 <fastlane> whats up ppl
Nov 09 19:48:19 <merlin1991> vi___: 1.10 is in extras-devel
Nov 09 19:49:56 <freemangordon> merlin1991: yeah, I told him that
Nov 09 19:52:30 <vi___> merlin1991: It would appear so.
Nov 09 19:55:14 <vi___> extras is down?
Nov 09 19:55:36 <freemangordon> really?
Nov 09 20:01:10 <vi___> unresolvable ip
Nov 09 20:01:43 <merlin1991> resolves here
Nov 09 20:02:04 <merlin1991> vi___: alternatively use http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/extras-devel/
Nov 09 20:14:48 <kerio> merlin1991: or the light mirror
Nov 09 20:21:32 <vi__> UGH whhy did qwerty12 make this so normal person could compile it?
Nov 09 20:21:42 <vi__> vengence from beyond the grave.
Nov 09 20:32:52 <freemangordon> the fuck, I cannot link alarm UI against /usr/bin/systemui
Nov 09 20:33:10 <freemangordon> linker cannot find the functions
Nov 09 20:33:16 <freemangordon> any hint?
Nov 09 20:33:26 <freemangordon> merlin1991, Pali ^^^
Nov 09 20:34:07 <Pali> what is problem?
Nov 09 20:34:14 <Pali> can you write error message?
Nov 09 20:34:33 <kerio> freemangordon: which alarm ui?
Nov 09 20:34:33 <Pali> /usr/bin/systemui --> this is ELF binary
Nov 09 20:34:41 <freemangordon> yep
Nov 09 20:34:43 <Pali> you cannot link any library against ELF executable
Nov 09 20:34:56 <freemangordon> and it has the functions I need exported
Nov 09 20:35:20 <freemangordon> Pali: it exports some functions
Nov 09 20:35:39 <freemangordon> and yes, you can link agains executable, see modest plugins for example
Nov 09 20:35:46 <freemangordon> *against
Nov 09 20:36:30 <Pali> freemangordon, you cannot link library against executable
Nov 09 20:36:44 <Pali> but if that executable loading your library
Nov 09 20:37:01 <Pali> then you can use that function with some hacks
Nov 09 20:37:33 <Pali> but first I need to see error message
Nov 09 20:37:52 <freemangordon> "/home/maemo/workspace/systemuiplugin_alarm_dialog/src/osso-systemui-alarm.c:99: undefined reference to `nsv_sv_shutdown'"
Nov 09 20:37:56 <freemangordon> :D
Nov 09 20:38:15 <freemangordon> and i have -l:/usr/bin/systemui
Nov 09 20:40:17 <freemangordon> Pali: wait, I need another lib, lets see what will happen when I add it
Nov 09 20:40:55 <Pali> again, you cannot link your library against executable
Nov 09 20:41:30 <freemangordon> "/home/maemo/workspace/systemuiplugin_alarm_dialog/src/osso-systemui-alarm.c:343: undefined reference to `remove_handler'"
Nov 09 20:41:45 <freemangordon> remove_handler is exported by /usr/bin/systemui
Nov 09 20:41:47 <Pali> if you want to use some function from that executable, then it should be possible automatically (if symbols are exported)
Nov 09 20:41:57 <freemangordon> yep, they are
Nov 09 20:41:58 <Pali> and who wrote that error message?
Nov 09 20:42:02 <Pali> gcc?
Nov 09 20:42:05 <freemangordon> the linker
Nov 09 20:42:08 <freemangordon> yep
Nov 09 20:42:10 <Pali> linker?
Nov 09 20:42:20 <freemangordon> well, gcc on link pass
Nov 09 20:42:24 <Pali> then you are not building shred library
Nov 09 20:42:31 <freemangordon> I am
Nov 09 20:42:33 <Pali> *shared
Nov 09 20:42:52 <freemangordon> "arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -shared  .libs/libosso_systemui_alarm_la-osso-systemui-alarm.o  /usr/lib/libgconf-2.so -L/usr/lib -lX11 -lalarm -lnotify -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lpthread -lhildon-1 -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so /usr/lib/libgio-2.0.so -lpangoft2-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 /usr/lib/libcairo.so -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so
Nov 09 20:42:52 <freemangordon> /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so -l:/usr/bin/systemui -ltime -lhildon-plugins-notify-sv  -Wl,-z -Wl,defs -Wl,-soname -Wl,libosso-systemui-alarm.so.0 -o .libs/libosso-systemui-alarm.so.0.0.0"
Nov 09 20:43:06 <Pali> not, because when building shared libraries symbols  are not dereferenced
Nov 09 20:43:18 <freemangordon> arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -shared
Nov 09 20:43:37 <freemangordon> hmm, maybe I should pass -rdynamic?
Nov 09 20:43:43 <Pali> wait
Nov 09 20:43:50 <Pali> I will look how mce building modules
Nov 09 20:43:55 <freemangordon> ok
Nov 09 20:44:05 <freemangordon> yeah, mce is another good example
Nov 09 20:45:00 <freemangordon> merlin1991: would you create "osso-systemui-alarm" on gitorious?
Nov 09 20:45:09 <Pali> but I think that gcc -shared -fPIC -llib1 -llib2 -llib3 source.c -o lib.so should work
Nov 09 20:45:40 <freemangordon> hmm, -fPIC is missing, lets try with it
Nov 09 20:46:26 <merlin1991> freemangordon: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/osso-systemui-alarm
Nov 09 20:46:37 <freemangordon> thanks
Nov 09 20:46:57 <freemangordon> Pali: no, didn;t help
Nov 09 20:47:00 <Pali> freemangordon, push code, I can try to fix it
Nov 09 20:47:12 <freemangordon> Pali: ok
Nov 09 21:00:16 <Pali> freemangordon, did you fixed it?
Nov 09 21:01:06 <freemangordon> no, I am struggling with git :D
Nov 09 21:02:37 <freemangordon> Pali: git@gitorious.org:community-ssu/osso-systemui-alarm.git
Nov 09 21:04:48 <Pali> btw, why are you using autotools?
Nov 09 21:05:00 <freemangordon> hmm, why not?
Nov 09 21:05:16 <Pali> because is slow?
Nov 09 21:05:19 <Pali> and buggy?
Nov 09 21:05:19 <freemangordon> you mean a simple AMkefile?
Nov 09 21:05:25 <Pali> yes
Nov 09 21:05:28 <Pali> simple Makefile
Nov 09 21:05:43 <freemangordon> well, I am just reusing that, from vkbrenderer and such
Nov 09 21:06:14 <freemangordon> I am foucuding on source code ;)
Nov 09 21:06:19 <freemangordon> *focusing
Nov 09 21:09:11 <DocScrutinizer05> anybody knows if mentalist traceur has a irc nick/account?
Nov 09 21:19:52 <user_> what is the fastest way to clone 2 n900s?
Nov 09 21:20:06 <DocScrutinizer05> backupmenu
Nov 09 21:20:32 <ds3> swap NAND and eMMC chips
Nov 09 21:20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bm
Nov 09 21:20:58 <infobot> backupmenu is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975
Nov 09 21:21:10 <internetishard> Can you make some recommendations on how to speed up my slow & unresponsive n900? http://pastebin.com/nQNhNryd
Nov 09 21:21:33 <DocScrutinizer05> internetishard: reflash a clean new system
Nov 09 21:21:45 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll be amazed about speedup
Nov 09 21:22:09 <vi_> just installing backupmenu is a chore on a fresh, stock system.
Nov 09 21:22:30 <DocScrutinizer05> is it?
Nov 09 21:22:52 <freemangordon> Pali: are you going to look at that now?
Nov 09 21:22:57 <Pali> yes
Nov 09 21:23:01 <Pali> it compiling fine
Nov 09 21:23:03 <freemangordon> ok, thanks
Nov 09 21:23:06 <freemangordon> yeah
Nov 09 21:23:07 <Pali> without any hell link autotools
Nov 09 21:23:11 <freemangordon> but won;t link
Nov 09 21:23:17 <Pali> it link
Nov 09 21:23:24 <freemangordon> whaaat?
Nov 09 21:23:26 <Pali> but not using autotools
Nov 09 21:23:32 <freemangordon> what compiler otions?
Nov 09 21:23:35 <freemangordon> *options
Nov 09 21:23:37 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Nov 09 21:24:00 <Pali> gcc -shared source.c -o lib.so <+included>
Nov 09 21:24:22 <Pali> I do not understand why somebody using some autotools...
Nov 09 21:24:37 <Pali> I will write full command line args with all libraries
Nov 09 21:24:43 <DocScrutinizer05> autotools, da hell
Nov 09 21:24:43 <vi_> how best to lubricate the slider?
Nov 09 21:24:59 <freemangordon> Pali: wait, there is an error in src/Makefile.am
Nov 09 21:25:09 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: pencil
Nov 09 21:25:11 <Pali> I do not want to see any autosometing
Nov 09 21:25:31 <freemangordon> wel, ok, fix it on gitorious
Nov 09 21:25:49 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: soft pencil
Nov 09 21:26:59 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: don't forget to first clean off all sticky rubbish
Nov 09 21:27:13 <internetishard> DocScrutinizer: I just did - but then I restored the apps...
Nov 09 21:30:00 <DocScrutinizer05> internetishard: ls -l /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db*
Nov 09 21:30:15 <Pali> gcc osso-systemui-alarm.c `pkg-config --libs --cflags hildon-1 gconf-2.0 alarm libnotify gtk+-2.0 dbus-1 glib-2.0` -pthread -ltime -lm -lhildon-plugins-notify-sv -L/usr/lib/hildon-desktop -shared -o libsystemuiplugin_alarm_dialog.so -Wl,-soname -Wl,libsystemuiplugin_alarm_dialog.so -Wl,-rpath -Wl,/usr/lib/hildon-desktop
Nov 09 21:30:20 <Pali> freemangordon ^^^^
Nov 09 21:30:34 <DocScrutinizer05> internetishard: also get rid of greedy nonsensical desktop widgets
Nov 09 21:30:59 <Pali> it will create same ELF library with same entires
Nov 09 21:32:28 <Pali> freemangordon, can I remove that autotools and fix compiling?
Nov 09 21:32:38 <freemangordon> Pali: of course
Nov 09 21:32:43 <Pali> ok
Nov 09 21:32:49 <freemangordon> but the command you pasted fails here
Nov 09 21:33:02 <freemangordon> wait, it does not
Nov 09 21:33:47 <freemangordon> it compiles ok
Nov 09 21:37:43 <freemangordon> Pali: in the meanwhile I will check if that works at all :D
Nov 09 21:40:06 <internetishard> DocScrutinizer: I finally deleted el-v1.db because this phone message program doesn't know how to manage a db with limited resources
Nov 09 21:40:26 <Pali> freemangordon, ok
Nov 09 21:40:43 <Pali> and one note: more source files has executable permission, why?
Nov 09 21:40:44 <internetishard> It's the same for the email app too - it won't display any emails before the network responds with new messages or not (which isn't good logic)
Nov 09 21:41:37 <DocScrutinizer05> can't argue abut any of your points
Nov 09 21:42:18 <internetishard> It's not so easy to just use an alternative app either
Nov 09 21:42:24 <internetishard> due to integration, mostly, I guess
Nov 09 21:42:31 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not really using email on N900 (too small screen for my type of emails), and my el-v1.db is some 600k
Nov 09 21:42:54 <vi____> internetishard: Do you use gmail?
Nov 09 21:43:15 <internetishard> I do
Nov 09 21:43:28 <internetishard> DocScrutinizer it's like 600k to begin with!
Nov 09 21:43:37 <vi____> archive all mails >6months old.
Nov 09 21:43:38 <internetishard> Mine was 25megs before I deleted it
Nov 09 21:43:47 <internetishard> I don't use the archive feature
Nov 09 21:43:47 <vi____> INstant modest speed boost.
Nov 09 21:43:56 <vi____> internetishard: It is really good.
Nov 09 21:44:02 <internetishard> modest doesn't have good gmail integration it seems
Nov 09 21:44:10 <vi____> internetishard: ???
Nov 09 21:44:17 <vi____> it supports gmail folders.
Nov 09 21:44:19 <internetishard> I can't actually search through all emails in my gmail
Nov 09 21:44:28 <vi____> modest can search??
Nov 09 21:44:36 <internetishard> Also, if I send it on my phone it isn't in gmail sent
Nov 09 21:44:38 <DocScrutinizer05> there's an archive feature in messaging?
Nov 09 21:44:53 <internetishard> modest can search what it has, but it can't search more than a few hundred emails ago
Nov 09 21:44:58 <vi____> internetishard: You are using imap right?
Nov 09 21:45:03 <internetishard> afaik
Nov 09 21:45:24 <vi____> well, my saved drafts/sent mails end up in my gmail.
Nov 09 21:45:34 <vi____> DocScrutinizer05: There ia an archive feature in gmail.
Nov 09 21:45:39 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
Nov 09 21:45:41 <internetishard> incoming: imap.gmail.com, outgoing: smtp.gmail.com
Nov 09 21:45:53 <vi____> all your email is still there, just not in your inbox.
Nov 09 21:46:01 <internetishard> how to your saved and send end up in gmail?
Nov 09 21:46:06 <vi____> This stops modest fetching and storing 10,000 messages.
Nov 09 21:46:26 <internetishard> I'd actually like it to fetch everything - but if it doesn't I'd like it to be able to search through everything in gmail
Nov 09 21:46:39 <internetishard> and then fetch it, so I don't have to open a browser on the n900 to find it
Nov 09 21:46:42 <vi____> internetishard: the sent email ends up in the 'imap sent folder'
Nov 09 21:46:56 <vi____> internetishard: me too.
Nov 09 21:47:04 <vi____> however modest just does not have the guts.
Nov 09 21:47:13 <internetishard> where's the imap sent folder?
Nov 09 21:47:15 <vi____> So use the gmail web interface.
Nov 09 21:47:22 <vi____> for heavy lifting.
Nov 09 21:47:45 <vi____> internetishard: on gmail web interface, on left side in folder tree somewhere.
Nov 09 21:48:00 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly modest is really kinda rudimentary app, I'd rather use webmail than modest any time
Nov 09 21:48:33 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe keep modest for notification purposes on new mails
Nov 09 21:48:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but nothing beyond
Nov 09 21:48:56 <internetishard> I don't see that anywhere
Nov 09 21:49:02 <vi____> it is good for quickly checking inbox.
Nov 09 21:49:26 <internetishard> If a webapp can do it, shouldn't a native app be able to?
Nov 09 21:49:46 <DocScrutinizer05> able?` yes. Actually does? hardly
Nov 09 21:49:49 <vi____> because nae cunt has written it.
Nov 09 21:49:57 <internetishard> nae?
Nov 09 21:50:02 <vi____> scotiish
Nov 09 21:50:05 <vi____> nae==none
Nov 09 21:50:11 <internetishard> bad ass, remembering
Nov 09 21:51:57 <vi____> internetishard: you can use the gmail touch interface,
Nov 09 21:54:02 <vi____> or gmail iphone interface.
Nov 09 21:54:43 <vi____> or if you feel really brutal, you can use claws mail.
Nov 09 21:57:01 <vi____> will an aluminium case make my n900 gsm reception really suck?
Nov 09 21:57:14 <internetishard> Doesn't it already :P
Nov 09 21:57:43 <vi____> n900 gets good gsm reception.
Nov 09 22:01:55 <internetishard> is fennec/firefox anywhere in the repo?
Nov 09 22:01:58 <internetishard> or I have to use ovi?
Nov 09 22:02:06 <DocScrutinizer05> vi____: yes, it will
Nov 09 22:02:11 <vi____> internetishard: fennac sucks major balls.
Nov 09 22:02:26 <vi____> unless you use the thumb version.
Nov 09 22:02:29 <internetishard> yeah, well opera keeps crashing and I'm not using the default browser
Nov 09 22:02:36 <vi____> which is bareable.
Nov 09 22:02:52 <vi____> what is wrong with the default.
Nov 09 22:02:55 <vi____> what is wrong with the default?
Nov 09 22:03:03 <internetishard> It's just not smart
Nov 09 22:03:46 <internetishard> high latency. I'll type in derp.ddd on wifi, and it won't know it isn't a valid domain for 5+ seconds
Nov 09 22:04:04 <vi____> internetishard: you have adblock plus?
Nov 09 22:04:17 <internetishard> maybe, not sure
Nov 09 22:04:42 <internetishard> for fennec? I don't have fennec anymore since backing up apps and restoring doesn't grab it
Nov 09 22:05:38 <vi____> what?
Nov 09 22:05:45 <vi____> adblock for default browser
Nov 09 22:05:51 <internetishard> not afaik
Nov 09 22:05:57 <internetishard> ...whyyy
Nov 09 22:06:47 <vi____> it is well known for slowing the browser down
Nov 09 22:07:44 <vi____> hostsfile blocking seems to be faster
Nov 09 22:09:37 <internetishard> that would make sense
Nov 09 22:13:53 <vi____> DocScrutinizer05: what is the extra 64mb unused space at the end of the emmc for?
Nov 09 22:17:22 <Pali> freemangordon, changes pushed
Nov 09 22:18:09 <freemangordon> Pali: ok. code does not work, but i'll fix it
Nov 09 22:18:17 <Pali> ok
Nov 09 22:27:20 <DocScrutinizer05> vi____: probably to handle spare blocks
Nov 09 22:27:55 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW not every eMMC might have those extra 64MB
Nov 09 23:18:57 <SpeedEvil> emmc, not one band
Nov 09 23:19:01 <SpeedEvil> one NAND
Nov 09 23:19:32 <SpeedEvil> emmc is a pure block device that does not shrink with use.
Nov 09 23:19:34 <SpeedEvil> oh
Nov 09 23:19:59 <SpeedEvil> but in principle may have per-unit initial capacity variations I guess.
Nov 09 23:23:09 <ShadowJK> that would be my guess too
Nov 09 23:25:15 * SpeedEvil grrs at new phone hw being available with 16g only.
Nov 09 23:27:01 <ShadowJK> hm?
Nov 09 23:29:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's what I said, no?
Nov 09 23:30:10 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: yes
Nov 09 23:30:22 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: I was not quite awake
Nov 09 23:30:38 <DocScrutinizer05>  np :-)
Nov 09 23:31:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not quite fir today either
Nov 09 23:31:09 <DocScrutinizer05> fit*
Nov 09 23:31:12 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: was looking at nexus 4, in absence of announcement elsewhere. though I expect to at least held off till then
Nov 09 23:31:29 <SpeedEvil> hold off
Nov 09 23:31:59 <ShadowJK> It's funny, even though it's double price here due to google not figuring out how to put phone in an envelope and dropping it off at usps, the price is still competititve :/
Nov 09 23:32:33 <SpeedEvil> I almost question if t,s not subsidised.
Nov 09 23:33:12 <SpeedEvil> I don't know how much a discount you can get if you pay up front foe a couple of million phones.
Nov 09 23:33:46 <DocScrutinizer05> quite a bit
Nov 09 23:34:33 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard usual calculation is that every chip costs you 3 times the purchase price on sale of complete unit
Nov 09 23:35:07 <SpeedEvil> Google does have a large pile of cash.
Nov 09 23:35:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess that changes with number of units approaching the 7 digits
Nov 09 23:36:56 <DocScrutinizer05> so when selling 10 mio instead 10k units, you may expect sales price dropping to the half or a third
Nov 09 23:39:31 <SpeedEvil> http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Financials?s=GOOG:NSQ
Nov 09 23:39:34 <SpeedEvil> yow
Nov 09 23:39:48 <SpeedEvil> closing n 50 billion cash reserves
Nov 09 23:39:56 <ShadowJK> It's almost certainly subsidized, because it's not sold in places wehre "Google Play" doesn't work.
Nov 09 23:40:29 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Nov 09 23:43:34 <ShadowJK> And by that I mean the non-apps content
Nov 09 23:46:10 <SpeedEvil> I'm not doing them well.
Nov 09 23:46:36 <SpeedEvil> I have so fad not used up my£15 store credit
Nov 09 23:46:53 <SpeedEvil> I think I've used about 5 of it.
Nov 09 23:50:40 <ShadowJK> The geolocation stuff really annoys me.
Nov 09 23:51:22 * infobot waves
Nov 09 23:51:24 <ShadowJK> Not just that some stuff is available in only some places, but depending on where google thinks your IP is located, you get different "first page" results too
Nov 09 23:52:12 <ShadowJK> And because of the enormous quantity of stuff, you might never ever find something when connecting from one IP, that you'd find immediately when connecting from another IP
Nov 10 00:08:28 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that's probably their business model to monetize from apps
Nov 10 00:09:43 <DocScrutinizer05> your app may get on page1 in regions A, B, C but then you have to accept three times the % for google
Nov 10 00:10:30 <ShadowJK> Nah it's more that it tries to figure out what's relevant for a person of specific nationality
Nov 10 00:11:11 <ShadowJK> It'd be cool if it could actually correctly classify me. However, when I surf the web I randomly get ads in finnish, german, dutch, and japanese (!) :)
Nov 10 00:11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, there's only one cure for that: register with google ;-P
Nov 10 00:12:48 <DocScrutinizer05> enable cookies
Nov 10 00:13:01 <DocScrutinizer05> get a gmail account
Nov 10 00:15:41 <ShadowJK> It doesn't work.
Nov 10 00:16:09 <ShadowJK> You're forced to register with google, and forced to get a google+ account, and forced to get gmail, when you switch on an android device.
Nov 10 00:16:54 <Skry> and after that, it still shows pages in different language you actually want
Nov 10 00:17:01 <ShadowJK> yep
Nov 10 00:17:22 <ShadowJK> and google play (their app store) content varies depending on whether I connect through wifi or bluetooth->n900->interwebs
Nov 10 00:17:26 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how stupid google can be
Nov 10 00:17:38 <ShadowJK> Well
Nov 10 00:17:46 <ShadowJK> I wonder
Nov 10 00:18:02 <infobot> it's a stupid bot only
Nov 10 00:18:04 <ShadowJK> If I get a US VPN, do I automatically get access to the music? :-)
Nov 10 00:18:41 <Skry> I just fought with blogger last night, I've set language to english from browser, google profile and all the other their services including bloggers own settings -> still in finnish
Nov 10 00:19:49 <ShadowJK> news.google.com has been in spanish/portuguese for me the last few months. I finally managed to switch it back after viewing the website on a friend's computer and seeing where the language option was.
Nov 10 00:20:20 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Nov 10 00:20:35 <DocScrutinizer05> clean cookie cache
Nov 10 00:21:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: maybe you should do less dealextreme browsing
Nov 10 00:21:50 <DocScrutinizer05> google might think you love those chinese pages
Nov 10 00:24:03 <DocScrutinizer05> or you write a blogpost about it. Google will nail the whole class b subnet of your carrier to your location then
Nov 10 00:25:21 <ShadowJK> I was getting japanese groupon ads though, not chinese
Nov 10 00:26:19 <ShadowJK> If google was using my youtube habbits, I'd imagine they'd feed me Korean ads due to the amount of starcraft I watch
Nov 10 00:29:05 <Skry> I only watch Tykylevits and vegan black metal chef from tube, wonder what kind of ads that combination would produce..
Nov 10 00:34:08 <Pali> maemo bugzilla is down too!
Nov 10 00:34:28 <Skry> damn :\
Nov 10 00:34:54 <Pali> harmattan sdk, meego wiki, maemo wiki, maemo bugzilla, what next?
Nov 10 00:35:28 <Pali> bugs.maemo.org show: "Software error: Can't connect to the database."
Nov 10 00:35:40 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05 ^^^^
Nov 10 00:37:32 <rZr> Pali, ubuntu sdk
Nov 10 01:12:09 <Hurrian> Skry, it could be worse. Installed Chrome for Android, and Google search was using my local domain and not Google.com
Nov 10 01:12:20 <Hurrian> There were /no/ settings for it.
Nov 10 01:12:27 <Skry> :D
Nov 10 01:12:48 <Skry> wtg google
Nov 10 01:13:09 <Hurrian> Ended up having to connect to my VPS's VPN to get a US location to use Google.com
Nov 10 01:14:23 <Hurrian> Why is every website doing this? It's ridiculous to set location preferences automatically.
Nov 10 01:14:38 <SpeedEvil> :-\ 
Nov 10 01:14:40 <Skry> user has been deprecated
Nov 10 01:15:05 <Hurrian> For example, I took a trip to Japan. Checked in on bookFace at a few places, and now I still get Japanese-language ads.
Nov 10 01:19:51 <Skry> yeah, insane.
Nov 10 01:52:15 <r00t|n900> you can always set a language preference on google, you can also disable the redirect by loading google.com/webhp
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 10 02:59:58 2012