**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 29 02:59:59 2012
Nov 29 04:19:03 <wmarone_> does anyone have a link to a Qt SDK installer for Linux with a Maemo 5 target?
Nov 29 05:07:37 <Jay_BEE> blah... it appears that droppin my N900 has totally obliterated by eMMC as I do not see /dev/mmcblkp1 nor /dev/mmcblkp2
Nov 29 05:08:02 <RST38h> eMMC ran away, look under furniture.
Nov 29 05:08:20 <Jay_BEE> i tried to no avail... she's not coming back
Nov 29 05:09:20 <Jay_BEE> for what it's worth i can mount maemo root
Nov 29 05:15:14 <SpeedEvil> it is in principle possible to set it up to use SD
Nov 29 05:15:22 <SpeedEvil> but that's tricky
Nov 29 05:15:38 <SpeedEvil> similarly, reflowing the emmc can reportedly help
Nov 29 05:15:43 <SpeedEvil> :-\ 
Nov 29 05:16:11 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Nov 29 05:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> eMMC chip footprint is quite unfortunate
Nov 29 05:20:20 <DocScrutinizer05> though I first would try to reformat and partition it
Nov 29 05:22:01 <DocScrutinizer05> btw there is 
Nov 29 05:22:04 <DocScrutinizer05> brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179,  8 1970-01-01 01:00 /dev/mmcblk0
Nov 29 05:22:06 <DocScrutinizer05> brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179,  9 1970-01-01 01:00 /dev/mmcblk0p1
Nov 29 05:22:07 <DocScrutinizer05> etc
Nov 29 05:22:48 <DocScrutinizer05> not /dev/mmcblkp1
Nov 29 05:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> depending on uSD present or not, I guess it as well might be minor:0 instead of minor:8
Nov 29 05:36:29 <DocScrutinizer05> btw in /sys you still see original names of mmc:
Nov 29 05:36:37 <DocScrutinizer05> cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc1/slot_name
Nov 29 05:37:12 <DocScrutinizer05> cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch
Nov 29 05:45:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Jay_BEE: I'd first of all check dmesg
Nov 29 05:45:48 <Jay_BEE> i can check that via rescueOS?
Nov 29 05:45:58 <DocScrutinizer05> errr
Nov 29 05:46:33 <DocScrutinizer05> well, you could try what's in there when you try to mount mmc
Nov 29 05:47:27 <DocScrutinizer05> also /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc?/* should give some info, if it exists at all
Nov 29 05:47:51 <DocScrutinizer05> kernel should probe for mmc, even if it doesn't mount the device
Nov 29 05:48:00 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Nov 29 05:48:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and when it probes mmc, it shall display diagnostic output of that process in dmesg
Nov 29 05:52:37 <DocScrutinizer05> modprobe -r mmc_block; modprobe mmc_block
Nov 29 05:59:04 <Jay_BEE> nothing... i don't even see a dmesg file
Nov 29 05:59:14 <DocScrutinizer05> file?
Nov 29 05:59:15 <Jay_BEE> I only see /var/run
Nov 29 05:59:22 <DocScrutinizer05> dmesg is a command
Nov 29 05:59:28 <Jay_BEE> right
Nov 29 06:01:19 <DocScrutinizer05> sth like
Nov 29 06:01:20 <Jay_BEE> a bunch of stuff scrolled by.... can't scroll back in rescueOS
Nov 29 06:01:22 <DocScrutinizer05> [    7.505737] mmc1: new high speed MMC card at address 0001
Nov 29 06:01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> [    7.508178] mmcblk1: mmc1:0001 MMC32G 29.8 GiB 
Nov 29 06:01:25 <DocScrutinizer05> [    7.508483]  mmcblk1: p1 p2 p3
Nov 29 06:01:48 <DocScrutinizer05> use grep
Nov 29 06:02:04 <DocScrutinizer05> dmesg|grep mmc
Nov 29 06:03:15 <Jay_BEE> I don't see a key for | , in busybox I press the arrow followed by the Sym key to select the | 
Nov 29 06:03:56 <kerio> Jay_BEE: do you have a working usb port?
Nov 29 06:04:05 <Jay_BEE> yes i do
Nov 29 06:04:34 <Jay_BEE> it's connected to my win xp lappy as we type
Nov 29 06:04:47 <kerio> use usb networking to get a real shell
Nov 29 06:05:07 <kerio> ah crap, win xp
Nov 29 06:05:13 <DocScrutinizer05> nin101 for sure mapped stuff like | to some fn+key
Nov 29 06:05:27 <kerio> yeah, i think it's fn+[zxc]
Nov 29 06:06:25 <Jay_BEE> zxc looks like 3 keys to me
Nov 29 06:06:28 <Jay_BEE> hehe
Nov 29 06:06:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I usually hold FN and type all the char keys until I found the right one, then enter or ^C and retype
Nov 29 06:06:41 <kerio> :D
Nov 29 06:06:55 <kerio> intuitive interfaces!
Nov 29 06:09:13 <kerio> Jay_BEE: even with a nonexistent eMMC, maemo is still *kinda* usable
Nov 29 06:09:18 <kerio> if you're willing to tinker a lot
Nov 29 06:09:44 <kerio> and have a uSD that you'll never be able to remove
Nov 29 06:10:08 <Jay_BEE> all I want to do is be able to copy my pictures to a media card
Nov 29 06:10:25 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Nov 29 06:10:28 <DocScrutinizer05> forget it
Nov 29 06:10:33 <kerio> no emmc = no pics
Nov 29 06:10:44 <Jay_BEE> oh ok... my job is done here then.
Nov 29 06:10:46 <Jay_BEE> heh
Nov 29 06:10:53 * Jay_BEE sits in a corner and cries
Nov 29 06:11:05 <DocScrutinizer05> even if you could recover eMMC, it would be by reformating and partitioning it
Nov 29 06:11:15 <kerio> nah
Nov 29 06:11:22 <kerio> ddrecover and then an undeleter
Nov 29 06:11:33 <Jay_BEE> i'm sending her back for a replacement
Nov 29 06:11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> might actually work
Nov 29 06:11:57 <kerio> Jay_BEE: figure out if the emmc is at least accessible from rescueos
Nov 29 06:12:20 <DocScrutinizer05> if partition table got nuked, it might even suffice to repartition it, to recover MyDocs
Nov 29 06:12:44 <Jay_BEE> kerio: executing mass-storage-enable.sh resulted in some error on the device and xp
Nov 29 06:13:00 <DocScrutinizer05> screw mass storage
Nov 29 06:13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> that's way too dull a sword for this problem
Nov 29 06:14:23 <Jay_BEE> mount-maemo-root.sh works and I can see stuff under /mnt/maemo
Nov 29 06:14:50 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I almost expected that
Nov 29 06:15:34 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, I got another 5 min to help. Up to you if you wanna tell us about mounting NAND, or rather do analysis of dmesg
Nov 29 06:16:32 <kerio> Jay_BEE: you don't need the maemo root, you need the emmc
Nov 29 06:16:34 <Jay_BEE> ls /dev/mmc* only displays mmcblk0 and mmcblk0p1
Nov 29 06:16:44 <kerio> Jay_BEE: that's the uSD then
Nov 29 06:16:53 <kerio> damn
Nov 29 06:16:53 <DocScrutinizer05> depends
Nov 29 06:17:01 <DocScrutinizer05> you got a uSD inserted?
Nov 29 06:17:04 <Jay_BEE> yeah
Nov 29 06:17:16 <DocScrutinizer05> then kerio is right about that
Nov 29 06:17:28 <kerio> my final diagnosis is that the emmc is thoroughly fucked
Nov 29 06:17:32 <DocScrutinizer05> still no reason to ignore dmesg diagnostic
Nov 29 06:17:35 <kerio> data = very no
Nov 29 06:17:38 * Jay_BEE agrees with kerio
Nov 29 06:17:49 <kerio> but you could still bring up a full fremantle system! :D
Nov 29 06:18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I agree with me that I have sth else on my schedule now
Nov 29 06:18:02 <Jay_BEE> i can send her back and get another n900
Nov 29 06:18:28 <kerio> yep, i'm kinda going too
Nov 29 06:18:31 <Jay_BEE> i was just hoping to recover some pictures and maybe the contacts but no worries at this point
Nov 29 06:18:34 <Jay_BEE> thx for the help
Nov 29 06:18:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I gave advice where to find the ultimate info (dmesg) and I helped how to display it, and how to find the key
Nov 29 06:19:01 <DocScrutinizer05> could've saved my time
Nov 29 07:09:08 <r00t|d430> $ wget https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/osso-suw-l10n-dadk_6.0+r7987+0m5_all.deb
Nov 29 07:09:08 <r00t|d430> Connecting to downloads.maemo.nokia.com (downloads.maemo.nokia.com)|95.100.35.200|:443... connected.
Nov 29 07:09:09 <r00t|d430> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
Nov 29 07:09:19 <r00t|d430> what's this retardedness?
Nov 29 07:10:04 <kerio> r00t|d430: downloads.maemo.nokia.com uses auth
Nov 29 07:10:12 <kerio> and it also checks the... user agent? idk
Nov 29 07:10:12 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: you need to supply user and password. aslo you have to do wget on the device
Nov 29 07:10:25 <freemangordon_> *also
Nov 29 07:10:25 <r00t|d430> this is retarded?
Nov 29 07:10:26 <kerio> freemangordon_: the last thing makes no sense whatsoever
Nov 29 07:10:32 <kerio> r00t|d430: yep
Nov 29 07:10:39 <r00t|d430> i removed a package and phone stopped booting, i just want to reinstall it
Nov 29 07:10:42 <freemangordon_> kerio: it makes, because of the keys
Nov 29 07:11:00 <kerio> freemangordon_: wget doesn't necessarily know about them
Nov 29 07:11:11 <kerio> ...hold on, which keys?
Nov 29 07:11:12 <kerio> ssl?
Nov 29 07:11:15 <r00t|d430> also: 403 does not mean auth required, that would be another status code
Nov 29 07:11:16 <freemangordon_> yep
Nov 29 07:11:31 <r00t|d430> so which user-agent do i need to spoof?
Nov 29 07:11:50 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: you need to do ^^^
Nov 29 07:12:00 <kerio> freemangordon_: he doesn't have a working n900
Nov 29 07:12:04 <freemangordon_> or ask someone else to so it for you
Nov 29 07:12:21 <freemangordon_> kerio: understood, but it is not me that made it that way
Nov 29 07:13:09 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: there server does not ask for auth, so no use supplying any...
Nov 29 07:13:26 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: as you wish
Nov 29 07:13:26 <kerio> freemangordon_: still forbidden for me
Nov 29 07:13:27 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: and what's the point in doing wget on the device? the server only sees the U-A
Nov 29 07:13:30 <kerio> wget from the device
Nov 29 07:13:46 <freemangordon_> kerio: disable certificate valdation
Nov 29 07:13:59 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: this is also net a certificate error
Nov 29 07:14:22 <kerio> freemangordon_: not a cert error
Nov 29 07:14:24 <freemangordon_> kerio: user user@pass from /etc/apt/auth
Nov 29 07:14:28 <freemangordon_> *use
Nov 29 07:14:33 <kerio> i just used apt
Nov 29 07:14:50 <kerio> ...now i have no way to send it to r00t|d430 though
Nov 29 07:15:14 <freemangordon_> kerio: some of the irc clients support file transfer
Nov 29 07:15:40 <r00t|d430> kerio: could you apt-get install --reinstall --download-only osso-suw-l10n-dadk osso-suw-l10n-dede osso-suw-l10n-engb osso-suw-l10n-enus osso-suw-l10n-eses osso-suw-l10n-esmx osso-suw-l10n-fifi osso-suw-l10n-frca osso-suw-l10n-frfr osso-suw-l10n-itit osso-suw-l10n-ruru osso-suw-l10n-svse osso-suw-l10n-nono osso-suw-l10n-nlnl osso-suw-l10n-ptpt osso-suw-l10n-plpl osso-suw-l10n-mr0 osso-startup-wizard
Nov 29 07:15:46 <r00t|d430> kerio: and send me the packages from the cache?
Nov 29 07:16:41 <kerio> r00t|d430: i'm with my n900 only right now
Nov 29 07:16:55 <kerio> so i'll leave that to someone with an actual keyboard :)
Nov 29 07:17:32 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: do you have scratchbox?
Nov 29 07:17:44 <r00t|d430> no
Nov 29 07:18:46 <r00t|d430> kerio: you can just do: rsync /var/cache/apt/archives constancy.org::upload
Nov 29 07:22:56 <r00t|d430> ok, i'll just buy a windows mobile phone later today
Nov 29 07:23:09 <r00t|d430> if nokia "linux" is that retarded
Nov 29 07:24:28 <kerio> r00t|d430: cool story bro
Nov 29 07:24:32 <freemangordon_> That will be a wise move. And yes, linux is that retarded :)
Nov 29 07:24:45 <kerio> s/linux/nokia/ actually
Nov 29 07:24:59 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: BTW why did you remove those packages?
Nov 29 07:25:02 <kerio> otoh, it's a non-free, non-redistributable component
Nov 29 07:25:15 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: vi____ said it was ok!
Nov 29 07:25:25 <kerio> vi____ says a lot of things
Nov 29 07:25:53 <r00t|d430> so what's the credentials to use?
Nov 29 07:26:10 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: hold on
Nov 29 07:28:18 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: wget --auth-no-challenge https://<>:<>@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/osso-suw-l10n-dadk_6.0+r7987+0m5_all.deb
Nov 29 07:28:23 <r00t|d430> works, on my notebook
Nov 29 07:28:45 <freemangordon_> well, then I am wrong re certificate
Nov 29 07:28:47 <kerio> neat
Nov 29 07:28:53 <kerio> :D
Nov 29 07:29:13 <kerio> r00t|d430: don't you also have to disable the ssl verification? 
Nov 29 07:29:23 <r00t|d430> no
Nov 29 07:30:23 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: where would one get that user/password, other than by running strings on /usr/bin/* ?
Nov 29 07:30:37 <freemangordon_> cat /etc/apt/auth
Nov 29 07:31:19 <r00t|d430> could've done that myself from backupmenu
Nov 29 07:33:58 <r00t|d430> packages reinstalled, let's see if it boots again
Nov 29 07:34:15 <freemangordon_> <r00t|d430> i removed a package and phone stopped booting, i just want to reinstall it
Nov 29 07:34:48 <freemangordon_> how am I supposed to know you have access to fs judjung from ^^^?
Nov 29 07:34:55 <freemangordon_> *judging
Nov 29 07:35:18 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: if i can install packages, i obviously have fs access
Nov 29 07:35:31 <r00t|d430> freemangordon_: i booted backupmenu shell, mounted root and opt, chrooted into it
Nov 29 07:35:45 <r00t|d430> it's still hanging... so must be something else
Nov 29 07:36:06 <r00t|d430> but thanks, btw
Nov 29 07:36:07 <freemangordon_> not so obvious, you can extract and copy 
Nov 29 07:36:16 <freemangordon_> instead of dpkg -i
Nov 29 07:36:45 <r00t|d430> one can even apt-get after stuffing the files into the cache
Nov 29 07:37:04 <freemangordon_> for example you may have booted nemo and mounted rootfs
Nov 29 07:38:04 <freemangordon_> so thing that are obvious to you because you see them, are not so obvious if at all to those hanging on IRC
Nov 29 07:38:08 <freemangordon_> *things
Nov 29 07:38:54 <freemangordon_> r00t|d430: check what breaks in syslog
Nov 29 07:40:03 <r00t|d430> will do after i am out of obvious changes to revert
Nov 29 07:40:29 <r00t|home> <vi____> To replace startup wizard (SUW) edit /etc/X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard
Nov 29 07:40:53 <r00t|home> just putting 'exit' in there did not work
Nov 29 07:42:23 <freemangordon_> r00t|home: I still fail to see the reason for removing all those packages
Nov 29 07:42:48 <r00t|d430> it's just startup wizard and it's language files
Nov 29 07:49:25 <r00t|home> well, getting rid of it is not as easy as vi____ said, it seems...
Nov 29 08:08:43 <r00t|n900> the problem was: the session script i edited had a shebang on top, which had me assuming it's being executed... but it's being sourced, and putting 'exit' in there exits the session...
Nov 29 08:10:32 <tadzik> does anyone know if there's a reason to receive bluetooth files without pairing with the other device?
Nov 29 08:10:53 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|n900: LOL
Nov 29 08:10:53 <tadzik> every time someone sends me stuff n900 rejects it, until I explicitely pair it up with the sender's device
Nov 29 08:11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|n900: what we learnt from that? ;-D
Nov 29 08:11:39 <tadzik> oh, I used this trick on the university so many times
Nov 29 08:12:09 <tadzik> whenever someone left the screen unlocked, echo "echo <Random swear word>; exit" >> ~/.bashrc
Nov 29 08:12:23 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: that r00t|n900 will buy a windoze phone later today. Aah, nokia linux suck, too :P
Nov 29 08:14:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd suggest you learn that a hideme(){ ... ... ... } (or a if false; then ... ... ... fi;) is better than a exit
Nov 29 08:21:51 <r00t|n900> freemangordon: the reason i will buy a windows phone is that maemo package repos are password protected
Nov 29 08:23:07 <r00t|n900> DocScrutinizer05: the real problem is that the file has a shebang for no good reason
Nov 29 08:23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|n900: you think windows "repos" are free for jeti and breti?
Nov 29 08:24:36 <r00t|n900> DocScrutinizer05: can't be much worse than maemo, especially when i'm being told that i can only download packages to the device directly for inexplicable reasons
Nov 29 08:25:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I think that's called ssl
Nov 29 08:27:52 <DocScrutinizer05> and in former times it actually been correct that you needed either the cert on N900 or a token in SB, to download stuff. Seems sth changed though, since I didn't install that token to my SB prior to installing all the stuff
Nov 29 08:28:52 <DocScrutinizer05> the download URLs this graphical installer used were rather weird though
Nov 29 08:29:56 <r00t|n900> DocScrutinizer05: then the answer would be, i have to copy the client-cert from the device first - but i'd be upgrading to windows anyway
Nov 29 08:31:25 <freemangordon> r00t|d430: "upgrading"?
Nov 29 08:31:25 <DocScrutinizer05> you had to, 3 years ago. You don't have to nowadays it seems
Nov 29 08:31:57 <DocScrutinizer05> and good morning and good night
Nov 29 08:32:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ugt
Nov 29 08:32:05 <infobot> rumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Nov 29 08:32:46 <r00t|d430> heh
Nov 29 08:44:49 <DocScrutinizer05> from SB-install: >>
Nov 29 08:44:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ***NOKIA BINARIES***
Nov 29 08:44:54 <DocScrutinizer05> In order to obtain Nokia-closed binaries, visit
Nov 29 08:44:56 <DocScrutinizer05> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php to accept the End User
Nov 29 08:44:57 <DocScrutinizer05> License Agreement. You will be given a token to access the Nokia
Nov 29 08:44:59 <DocScrutinizer05> binaries repository with further instructions.
Nov 29 08:45:00 <DocScrutinizer05> <<
Nov 29 08:45:40 <vi____>  freemangordon_: r00t|home: I still fail to see the reason for removing all those packages
Nov 29 08:46:13 <vi____> freemangordon: The point of getting rid of SUW is it is a massive pain in the dick to have to swipe out the time and date after each hard reboot.
Nov 29 08:46:41 <DocScrutinizer05> that's no reason to get rid of the packages
Nov 29 08:47:05 <vi____> DocScrutinizer05: what packag in particular?
Nov 29 08:47:17 <vi____> s/packag/p-ackage
Nov 29 08:47:23 <vi____> -_-
Nov 29 08:47:23 <r00t|d430> vi____: you broke my phone, i'll sue for damages!
Nov 29 08:47:29 <vi____> what?
Nov 29 08:47:57 <vi____> r00t|d430: You ended up in a bott loop?
Nov 29 08:48:06 <vi____> fffs, my typing.
Nov 29 08:48:24 <r00t|d430> vi____: see above
Nov 29 08:49:05 * vi____ reading
Nov 29 08:49:26 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh I'd have renamed the greeter binary and replaced it with a (empty) script
Nov 29 08:52:24 <vi____> he problem was: the session script i edited had a shebang on top, which had me assuming it's being executed... but it's being sourced, and putting 'exit' in there exits the session...
Nov 29 08:52:35 <vi____> Well that was crazy.
Nov 29 08:53:03 <vi____> All you had to do was comment out the line about /usr/sbi/osso-startup-wizard
Nov 29 08:53:08 <vi____> Or whatever it is called.
Nov 29 08:53:09 <r00t|d430> iirc i even told you i put exit there, and you didn't warn me!!111
Nov 29 08:53:15 <vi____> mmm
Nov 29 08:53:36 <r00t|d430> well, the rest of the script is pointless too... deleting the whole script would be the best solution
Nov 29 08:53:48 <vi____> r00t|d430: I concour.
Nov 29 08:53:52 <vi____> Have you fixed it?
Nov 29 08:53:58 <vi____> How can I assist you?
Nov 29 08:55:21 <r00t|d430> how do i deleted script?
Nov 29 08:55:27 <vi____> MMM
Nov 29 08:55:30 <r00t|d430> i fixed it
Nov 29 08:55:32 <vi____> do you have backupmenu?
Nov 29 08:56:10 <r00t|d430> just that i initially thought it was caused by removing the package, and in the process of reinstalling it had to find out how retarded maemo repos are
Nov 29 08:56:40 <vi____> r00t|d430: So all you have to do is edit/delete that file.
Nov 29 08:56:48 <vi____> Do you have backupmenu?
Nov 29 08:57:09 <r00t|d430> i already fixed it...
Nov 29 08:57:15 <vi____> Oh.
Nov 29 08:57:34 <r00t|d430> have backupmenu, even mounted the maemo fs and chrooted into it to install packages
Nov 29 08:58:51 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|d430: maemo repos are not retarded. Not doing any protection against download by non-n900-owners, while asking for IMEI on downloading fiasco images, THAT would be really retarded
Nov 29 09:00:18 <vi____> Is the meego wiki going to be included in the great backup of 2012?
Nov 29 09:01:34 <DocScrutinizer05> the non-free binaries include stuff that Nokia licenced for distribution on N900 only. They'd face severe problems with (C)-holders of that stuff if they would indiscriminately share via internet
Nov 29 09:03:10 <r00t|d430> OMG!!!
Nov 29 09:04:51 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed OMG why i'm wasting my time to explain that stuff to you
Nov 29 09:05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> go get your windows phone, please!
Nov 29 09:41:43 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer05, b-b-but some packages are only available on-device
Nov 29 09:41:58 <Hurrian> you still can't build a complete Fremantle by using rootstock, for example
Nov 29 09:42:38 <Hurrian> IMO, there should be work on cleaning the Fremantle fiasco images, such as removing Flash, the facebook/foreca/DTG etc. installers and cherry.
Nov 29 10:07:40 <vi____> Hurrian: Dem is troll words Hurrian
Nov 29 10:08:43 <Hurrian> vi____, would that be more prone to licensing issues?
Nov 29 10:09:51 <vi____> I agree with you, however creating 'alternative' rootfs images is apparently frowned upon.  To the point that you will be actively moderated if tell anyone about one you have made.
Nov 29 10:13:44 <vi____> BRB COFFEE
Nov 29 10:18:50 <vi____> It seems a reset ACTUALLY sets the date to year 2000.
Nov 29 10:19:30 <vi____> It is only SUW that thinks it is 2009!
Nov 29 10:19:40 <vi____> Stupid SUW!
Nov 29 10:21:15 <merlin1991> suw?
Nov 29 10:21:24 <vi____> osso-startup-wizard
Nov 29 10:22:02 <vi____> aka, 'the dick puncher'.
Nov 29 10:59:52 <vi____> Hurrian: Does the n9 have dos2unix command?
Nov 29 11:00:28 <Hurrian> vi____, it has unix2dos (with a switch it does the reverse), but I'm running busybox-power
Nov 29 11:00:52 <vi____> Do you know if it has that on the n9 stock busybox?
Nov 29 11:01:19 <Hurrian> vi____, no clue, lemme check the diverted binary
Nov 29 11:01:26 <vi____> cheers buddy
Nov 29 11:02:27 <Hurrian> : /bin/busybox.distrib dos2unix: dos2unix: applet not found
Nov 29 11:02:29 <Hurrian> I guess not.
Nov 29 11:03:25 <vi____> what about tr?
Nov 29 11:03:54 <vi____> hurrian ^
Nov 29 11:04:31 <Hurrian> yup
Nov 29 11:04:37 <vi____> cool
Nov 29 11:04:45 <Hurrian> Usage: tr [-cds] STRING1 [STRING2]
Nov 29 11:05:06 <vi____> I was just about to post an adblock script for the N9 on tmo then thought 'wait, does the n9 even have therse commands'?
Nov 29 11:05:12 <Hurrian> vi____, too lazy to pull out that fancy N950 you got?
Nov 29 11:05:19 <vi____> Hurrian: heh.
Nov 29 11:05:25 <Hurrian> or too annoyed?
Nov 29 11:05:27 <vi____> I do not have it anymore.
Nov 29 11:05:38 <vi____> 0.0
Nov 29 11:05:58 <vi____> Do not worry, I am not a total asswipe.  I sent it to a good home.
Nov 29 11:06:10 <vi____> At no personal profit.
Nov 29 11:06:31 <Hurrian> ah. well, considering how much you dislike Harmattan's workings, it's understandable
Nov 29 11:06:45 <vi____> Hurrian: Not so much that.  I could not use it.
Nov 29 11:07:05 <Hurrian> Use it as you did with Fremantle? It's annoying for me too.
Nov 29 11:07:13 <vi____> As there are no spare parts, I could not see it lasting me more than a couple of months as a main device.
Nov 29 11:07:24 <vi____> If I am not using it as a main device, it is not worth my time.
Nov 29 11:07:55 <Hurrian> ah. concerned about damaging the screen/screen damaging itself, then?
Nov 29 11:08:39 <vi____> correct, why invest effort into making an uttterly obsolete device my main device when it will only fail very shortly.
Nov 29 11:09:02 <vi____> I am to old to hang onto old hardware for sentimental reasons.
Nov 29 11:09:37 <Hurrian> vi____, "why invest effort?" : for masturbation to yourself for getting a rare device even marked not for sale
Nov 29 11:09:53 <Hurrian> certain tmo-ers are certainly in it for that
Nov 29 11:10:21 <Lava_Croft> Do I sense some envy
Nov 29 11:10:25 <vi____> I posessed it.
Nov 29 11:10:40 <vi____> I felt the brush of its svelt aluminium body against mine.
Nov 29 11:10:47 <vi____> It was beautyful.
Nov 29 11:11:06 <vi____> s/beautyful/beautiful/
Nov 29 11:11:06 <infobot> vi____ meant: It was beautiful.
Nov 29 11:11:20 <vi____> However life is to short.
Nov 29 11:11:20 <Hurrian> Lava_Croft: A little. But I am contented with my N9, and I don't think a keyboard and being OCD about it's non-gorilla glass failing screen would've enhanced my experience.
Nov 29 11:11:42 <vi____> Harmattan is not designed for keyboards.
Nov 29 11:11:47 <Lava_Croft> It's certainly not a 'faster N900'
Nov 29 11:11:56 <vi____> not even close.
Nov 29 11:12:19 <vi____> it is like an n900 ubermensch, castrated.
Nov 29 11:13:19 <Hurrian> vi____, in the sense that it'll never reproduce?
Nov 29 11:13:24 <vi____> Hurrian: do you want to test my hosts file adblock 'script' on your n9 before I paste it on TMO?
Nov 29 11:13:38 <vi____> wget -O ~/hosts http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.txt && echo "127.0.0.1 rm696 localhost" > /etc/hosts && cat ~/hosts | tr -d '^m'  >> /etc/hosts && cat /etc/hosts;
Nov 29 11:13:43 <Hurrian> vi____, I'll have to pass, I stay away from system-wide host blocking.
Nov 29 11:14:09 <vi____> in the sense it has so much potential wasted on that silly swipe interface.
Nov 29 11:15:24 <vi____> Hurrian what is the contents of your hosts file?
Nov 29 11:17:40 <Hurrian> vi____, 127.0.0.1 kotoko localhost
Nov 29 11:17:46 <vi____> Thankyou!
Nov 29 11:18:21 <Hurrian> kotoko being my manually set hostname, IIRC it's RM696 stock
Nov 29 11:29:13 <vi____> wtf
Nov 29 11:29:32 <vi____> busybox cat command is stripping windows ^M newline characters?
Nov 29 11:29:34 <vi____> WTF
Nov 29 11:36:36 <vi____> tr cannot 'see' ^M?
Nov 29 11:41:55 <vi____> Hurrian: Does stock n9 busybox come with strings command?
Nov 29 11:42:19 <jon_y> I thought strings is from binutils
Nov 29 11:42:22 <Hurrian> vi____, apparently not
Nov 29 11:42:47 <vi____> GOddamn fuck busy box crippled ass shit.
Nov 29 11:44:25 <vi____> tr -d "\015"
Nov 29 11:44:36 <jon_y> try xxd?
Nov 29 11:44:51 <vi____> ^ the only way on stock barfbox to strip ^M from a 'dows file.
Nov 29 11:45:03 <jon_y> I wonder when busybox will come with win.com to boot win95
Nov 29 11:45:11 <jon_y> or using sed
Nov 29 11:45:19 <jon_y> s/\r\n/\n/g
Nov 29 11:45:40 <vi____> Or somehow just replace all that busyboxbullshit with REAL gnu tools.
Nov 29 11:47:01 <jon_y> what does the N9 require busybox for?
Nov 29 11:47:11 <jon_y> can't real stuff just replace it?
Nov 29 11:49:44 <vi____> Knowing nokia, there will be some specific kludge in the boot process that will depend on a particular bug in a particular version of a particular tool in a particular in house compile of a specific busybox binary.
Nov 29 11:50:12 <Sicelo> heh
Nov 29 11:58:46 <vi____> am I missing something?
Nov 29 11:58:53 <vi____> chmod 000 myfile
Nov 29 11:59:11 <vi____> means NO ONE has permission to even read the file.
Nov 29 11:59:25 <vi____> Yet on the n900, I can still echo values to it as root.
Nov 29 11:59:28 <vi____> try it.
Nov 29 11:59:54 <jaska> root in general can just ignore discretionary access control
Nov 29 12:00:07 <vi____> Well that is fucking dumb.
Nov 29 12:07:47 <fizzie> The thing that I always do for removing CRs, tr -d '\r', does seem to work just fine with the busybox tr on my N900.
Nov 29 12:23:41 <jon_y> vi____: root is a super user
Nov 29 12:23:46 <jon_y> it can do whatever it wants
Nov 29 12:24:01 <jon_y> which is why using it for everyday stuff is discouraged
Nov 29 15:48:11 <kerio> vi____: root is chuck norris
Nov 29 15:48:17 <kerio> do you think that unix perms would stop chuck norris?
Nov 29 15:49:33 <kerio> i think that the only way it could be doable would be with a readonly bind mount on itself
Nov 29 15:50:35 <kerio> maybe not, actually
Nov 29 16:05:11 <felipec> minicom /tty/ACM0 should work... right?
Nov 29 16:05:19 <felipec> er, /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:06:46 <vi____> kerio: what was your magic automatic calibration script?
Nov 29 16:08:58 <vi____> I need to test my new 2300mAh bl-5j.
Nov 29 16:09:10 <vi____> Before I flame the seller as a scammer.
Nov 29 16:12:44 <cjdavies> right, sat here in a hotel in s'Hertogenbosch with a 3G SIM that I bought at the airport
Nov 29 16:12:54 <vi____> w00t
Nov 29 16:13:02 <vi____> south africa?
Nov 29 16:13:10 <cjdavies> what is the easiest way to use the N900's Internet connection on my laptop?
Nov 29 16:13:16 <cjdavies> vi____: Netherlands...
Nov 29 16:13:23 <vi____> aah.
Nov 29 16:13:36 <vi____> Afrikaans kinda looks the same.
Nov 29 16:13:50 <mgedmin> cjdavies, usb cable
Nov 29 16:13:56 <T_X> cjdavies: oh - I' m currently trying something similar and wanted to ask about that
Nov 29 16:13:57 <vi____> There is a program in the repos called hotspot.
Nov 29 16:14:00 <mgedmin> it should show up as a regular USB 3G modem
Nov 29 16:14:18 <cjdavies> yup, I found hotspot but it requires installing a custom kernel
Nov 29 16:14:20 <vi____> either use that or use the n900 as a dial up modem.
Nov 29 16:14:21 <mgedmin> (if you choose the right option in the menu on the N900 itself)
Nov 29 16:14:29 <cjdavies> anybody know if the usb works in linux?
Nov 29 16:14:45 <mgedmin> perfectly
Nov 29 16:14:50 <vi____> do you mean use USB dial up network on linux?
Nov 29 16:14:52 <cjdavies> my E6 has something similar with usb but I only ever got it to work in windows
Nov 29 16:14:54 <felipec> it used to work for me
Nov 29 16:14:55 <vi____> If so, yes.
Nov 29 16:15:06 <vi____> wvdial /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:15:08 <felipec> I'm having problems right now: ttyACM0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- and failed too at 115200, giving up.
Nov 29 16:15:08 <mgedmin> (ubuntu, network manager: just plug in and use)
Nov 29 16:15:10 <T_X> cjdavies: oh, no, had to read again. I'm trying the reverse. I want to use my laptops internet connection for my n900
Nov 29 16:15:28 <mgedmin> there were some bugs and regressions that eventually got fixed, iirc
Nov 29 16:15:30 <cjdavies> ah well, I'll fire up the laptop & see
Nov 29 16:15:37 <vi____> cjdavies: what distro?
Nov 29 16:15:44 <cjdavies> arch
Nov 29 16:15:55 <vi____> I do not know arch.
Nov 29 16:16:08 <vi____> But I assume you at least have wvdial.
Nov 29 16:16:20 <cjdavies> worst case scenario, I've got a windows xp vm ;)
Nov 29 16:16:26 <felipec> yeah, Arch has wvdial, and NetworkManager
Nov 29 16:18:03 <cjdavies> wtypical, I'm using wicd
Nov 29 16:18:09 <kerio> T_X: usb networking?
Nov 29 16:18:22 <kerio> vi____: hold on a sec
Nov 29 16:18:34 <T_X> hm, I've setup the ip addresses and routes manuall on usb0. and the internet connection for the n900 seems to work fine, pinging internet addresses is fine. but it still shows a "network error" message for the voip accounts
Nov 29 16:18:46 <T_X> kerio: yes
Nov 29 16:18:57 <kerio> T_X: have you installed libicd-network-null?
Nov 29 16:19:39 <cjdavies> so when I plug the n900 in I get the choice between mass storage & pc suite, no use phone as modem option
Nov 29 16:19:50 <vi____> cjdavies: pcsuite mode
Nov 29 16:20:11 <vi____> The n900 needs the g_nokia module loaded.
Nov 29 16:20:21 <vi____> (which is what pcsuite mode does)
Nov 29 16:20:27 <cjdavies> which I don't have...
Nov 29 16:20:46 <vi____> what?
Nov 29 16:20:50 <vi____> You do not have what?
Nov 29 16:20:52 <T_X> kerio: no, I haven't. let me check what it is supposed to do
Nov 29 16:21:07 <kerio> T_X: it makes a "dummy connection" in the Internet Connection dialog
Nov 29 16:21:08 <cjdavies> you mean the laptop needs to have g_nokia loaded?
Nov 29 16:21:54 <vi____> cjdavies: No, the n900 needs g_nokia loaded.  g_nokia is loaded automatically when you select 'pc-suite mode'.
Nov 29 16:21:59 <kerio> vi____: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1967568
Nov 29 16:22:06 <vi____> kerio: cheers mate.
Nov 29 16:22:08 <cjdavies> ah
Nov 29 16:22:30 <cjdavies> so how does one go about using the n900 in pc suite mode as a modem in linux?
Nov 29 16:22:40 <cjdavies> or should I just fire up the xp vm?
Nov 29 16:22:46 <freemangordon> vi____: are you sure? as I would load g_ether on n900, install linux ethernet RNDIS adapter and do an ICS
Nov 29 16:23:02 <kerio> cjdavies: i'd use usb networking
Nov 29 16:23:07 <kerio> you have to do things "manually", though
Nov 29 16:23:17 <freemangordon> kerio: ^^^
Nov 29 16:23:35 <T_X> kerio: ah - okay, thanks, that might work better than connecting to wifi and deleting its default route
Nov 29 16:23:52 <cjdavies> sounds like it'll be quicker to just do it the vm way
Nov 29 16:23:54 <vi____> T_X you need network null so you can trick ICD (the network manager)  into believing you are connected to the net. Because you have connected it via the backend, n900 appz think you are actually disconnected(because ICD did not do the connecting).  You understand?
Nov 29 16:24:02 <kerio> cjdavies: hahahahahaha
Nov 29 16:24:09 <vi____> cjdavies: just plug in the usb, select pc-suite mode.
Nov 29 16:24:10 <kerio> you've never tried to install ovi suite on a windows pc, have you
Nov 29 16:24:17 <vi____> cjdavies: It is all you have to do.
Nov 29 16:24:41 <cjdavies> vi____: ... obviously it's not all you need to do in linux
Nov 29 16:24:44 <vi____> freemangordon: possibly, I forget.  I should not have said, I seem to have confused the issue.
Nov 29 16:24:44 <cjdavies> windows maybe
Nov 29 16:24:52 <cjdavies> hence the vm I am starting
Nov 29 16:24:54 <vi____> -_-
Nov 29 16:24:58 <vi____> -_-'
Nov 29 16:25:06 <vi____> 1. plug in usb
Nov 29 16:25:14 <vi____> 2. select pc-suite mode.
Nov 29 16:25:21 <vi____> 3. Use the dialer of your choice.
Nov 29 16:25:32 <kerio> oh right, there's that too
Nov 29 16:25:38 <cjdavies> yes, but I don't neccessarily have a dialer
Nov 29 16:25:47 <cjdavies> nor can I get one... obviously
Nov 29 16:25:51 <kerio> ...what?
Nov 29 16:25:55 <kerio> which distro are you using?
Nov 29 16:25:56 <vi____> ...eh?
Nov 29 16:26:05 <freemangordon> cjdavies: new dial-up connection
Nov 29 16:26:06 <vi____> but you are on the net RIGHT NOW.
Nov 29 16:26:13 <vi____> aaah.
Nov 29 16:26:24 <vi____> arch must have SOMETHING built in.
Nov 29 16:26:30 <vi____> wvdial
Nov 29 16:26:32 <kerio> *gnome
Nov 29 16:26:43 <freemangordon> gnome ppp dialer
Nov 29 16:26:48 <freemangordon> or something
Nov 29 16:27:07 <vi____> I do not believe arch does not come with some kind of dialer.
Nov 29 16:27:12 <cjdavies> kay, wvdial is there
Nov 29 16:28:10 <cjdavies> crash course in wvdial kthnx ;P
Nov 29 16:28:15 <vi____> dmesg, look to see what tty the n900 is on
Nov 29 16:28:28 <vi____> probably /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:29:08 <cjdavies> acm0
Nov 29 16:29:35 <vi____> well you need to disconnect from the net in order to use wvdial
Nov 29 16:29:55 <vi____> wvdial /etc/wvdial.conf
Nov 29 16:30:07 <vi____> wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf
Nov 29 16:30:17 <vi____> ^do that to create your .conf file
Nov 29 16:30:18 <cjdavies> you me disconnect the phone's internet?
Nov 29 16:30:26 <vi____> not yet
Nov 29 16:30:36 <vi____> plug in phone.
Nov 29 16:30:42 <vi____> choose pcsuite mode
Nov 29 16:30:57 <vi____> type in wvdialconf /etc/wvdial
Nov 29 16:30:58 <kerio> you don't necessarily have to, i think
Nov 29 16:31:03 <vi____> no
Nov 29 16:31:05 <vi____> oh well
Nov 29 16:31:10 <cjdavies> done, but that wvdial command fails
Nov 29 16:31:14 <vi____> type in wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf
Nov 29 16:31:33 <vi____> once you have run wvdialconf
Nov 29 16:31:42 <cjdavies> shit it did stuff
Nov 29 16:31:56 <vi____> you then need to disconnect the phone from the net, then type
Nov 29 16:32:06 <vi____> wvdial /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:32:14 <vi____> assuming your phone is on ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:32:25 <vi____> and it should work.
Nov 29 16:32:29 <T_X> vi___: well, in my case ICD did make a connection. I simply replaced the wifi default route with a default route via usb0. but that didn't seem to work though. I've installed libicd-network-null now. how do I select this dummy connection?
Nov 29 16:32:51 <cjdavies> hm, I should probably kill wicd/networkmanager/whatever else?
Nov 29 16:33:08 <kerio> cjdavies: so you *do* have something like that
Nov 29 16:33:17 <vi____> cjdavies: what?
Nov 29 16:33:38 <cjdavies> wicd is like networkmanager
Nov 29 16:33:53 <vi____> on the n900 1. connect phone. 2. select pcsuite mode. 3. wvdial /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:33:53 <cjdavies> gui to wpasupplicant essentially
Nov 29 16:33:57 <vi____> IS ALL YOU HAVE TO DO.
Nov 29 16:34:10 <vi____> wpasupplicant?? wtf are you talking about?
Nov 29 16:34:21 <cjdavies> not if there is a daemon like wicd controlling the entire networking system...
Nov 29 16:34:38 <vi____> I assume you mean on arch, not the n900.
Nov 29 16:34:44 <cjdavies> yes
Nov 29 16:34:50 <kerio> T_X: hm, do you see a "dummy connection" in the Internet Connection dialog?
Nov 29 16:34:52 * mgedmin laughs at people who do not use network manager
Nov 29 16:34:58 <kerio> ~poettering
Nov 29 16:35:00 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Nov 29 16:35:08 <kerio> mgedmin: networkmanager is definetely poettering
Nov 29 16:35:11 <tadzik> laughs... through tears?
Nov 29 16:35:14 <cjdavies> my point is if I try to wvdial while wicd/networkmanager think they are in control, bad things may happen
Nov 29 16:35:25 <vi____> cjdavies: perhaps.
Nov 29 16:35:28 <cjdavies> anyway, going to disconnect & see what happens
Nov 29 16:35:34 <cjdavies> back in a few minutes
Nov 29 16:35:35 <T_X> kerio: hm, don't think so, I only see the wifi connections in my neighborhood
Nov 29 16:35:39 <vi____> cjdavies: There is an arch wiki page on wvdial.
Nov 29 16:35:50 <vi____> if you search for archwiki wvdial you will find it.
Nov 29 16:36:00 <vi____> nice clear instructions.
Nov 29 16:39:25 <kerio> T_X: hold on, there's some gconftool magic to do
Nov 29 16:39:47 <cjdavies> wvdial failed because the conf doesn't have the username/password
Nov 29 16:39:57 <cjdavies> for some reason I can't access the wiki page
Nov 29 16:40:02 <cjdavies> some https error
Nov 29 16:40:27 <kerio> T_X: dbus-send --type=method_call --system --dest=com.nokia.icd /com/nokia/icd com.nokia.icd.connect string:DUMMY uint32:0
Nov 29 16:40:28 <T_X> kerio: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications?
Nov 29 16:40:30 <cjdavies> 'unable to complete secure transaction'
Nov 29 16:40:36 <kerio> yep
Nov 29 16:40:43 * cjdavies opens it on the server using lynx
Nov 29 16:41:22 <vi____> cjdavies: then you are going to have to edit /etc/wvdial.conf
Nov 29 16:41:34 <vi____> and add the user name and password.
Nov 29 16:41:59 <vi____> look up the provider for the sim card you have just bought.  The information is usually freely available.
Nov 29 16:42:49 <cjdavies> the apnsettings for the provider say to leave user/pass blank
Nov 29 16:42:55 <cjdavies> they provide the apn uri
Nov 29 16:43:01 <cjdavies> but no user/pass
Nov 29 16:43:59 <cjdavies> is the phone number the number of the actual sim?
Nov 29 16:44:26 <vi____> if there is no user password, then leave them blank
Nov 29 16:44:34 <vi____> or use user:password.
Nov 29 16:45:11 <cjdavies> but the phone number?
Nov 29 16:45:13 <vi____> you have to disconnect the n900 from the net before you use wvdial.
Nov 29 16:45:23 <cjdavies> yup
Nov 29 16:45:26 <vi____> ok
Nov 29 16:45:36 <vi____> I do not know about the phone number.
Nov 29 16:45:47 <vi____> wvdial usually just works by magic.
Nov 29 16:47:04 <cjdavies> doesn't allow blank user/password
Nov 29 16:47:45 <cjdavies> screw it, windows
Nov 29 16:51:57 <cjdavies> even windows didn't work D:
Nov 29 16:52:12 <cjdavies> will have to switch to E6 later tonight & try that
Nov 29 16:52:25 <cjdavies> but now time for a meeting
Nov 29 16:53:05 <felipec> anybody using Nokia N9 as USB modem with a recent kernel?
Nov 29 16:53:23 <mgedmin> I don't remember
Nov 29 16:53:30 <mgedmin> I think I did
Nov 29 16:53:38 <mgedmin> no -- I used the N9 as a wifi hotspot
Nov 29 16:53:39 <mgedmin> I hate cables
Nov 29 16:53:56 <mgedmin> I could try if you want, assuming 3.5 is recent enough kernel for you
Nov 29 16:54:27 <felipec> mgedmin: yeah, that's recent :)
Nov 29 16:56:05 <felipec> I've tried everything, I think it just doesn't work
Nov 29 16:56:31 <mgedmin> it tells me it connected to GSM, it shows me the IMEI
Nov 29 16:56:51 <mgedmin> but the settings button is greyed out
Nov 29 16:56:55 <mgedmin> my operator name is not shown
Nov 29 16:57:12 <felipec> mgedmin: NetworkManager?
Nov 29 16:57:17 <mgedmin> yeah, in gnome-shell
Nov 29 16:57:41 <felipec> mgedmin: yeah, I tried minicom /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:57:49 <felipec> doesn't even respond
Nov 29 16:58:13 <T_X> yaiy, that seems to have worked now. thanks kerio, thanks vi____!
Nov 29 16:58:16 <mgedmin> sudo screen /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 29 16:58:17 <kerio> ^_^
Nov 29 16:58:24 <mgedmin> at<enter> -> I get OK
Nov 29 16:58:50 <vi____> cjdavies: If you look at the gprs access point on the n900, you will see the settings.
Nov 29 16:59:43 <tadzik> btw, what is the reason that none of the mobile hotspots for n900 have wpa2 available?
Nov 29 17:00:26 <felipec> mgedmin: hmm, which kernel?
Nov 29 17:01:14 <kerio> tadzik: no hostap
Nov 29 17:01:21 <kerio> and ad-hoc wifi only supports wep
Nov 29 17:01:57 <mgedmin> Linux platonas 3.5.0-18-generic #29-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 19 10:26:51 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Nov 29 17:02:13 <tadzik> kerio: is that a wifi chip fault, or the driver?
Nov 29 17:02:19 <kerio> tadzik: yes
Nov 29 17:02:26 <tadzik> ha-ha
Nov 29 17:02:30 <felipec> mgedmin: thx
Nov 29 17:02:32 <tadzik> is that the driver's fault?
Nov 29 17:02:43 <kerio> i don't know, i think it's the chip
Nov 29 17:03:05 <vi____> The best thing to do is no encryption and mac address white listing.
Nov 29 17:03:19 <kerio> vi____: the best thing to do is usb networking
Nov 29 17:03:38 <vi____> kerio: oh yeah, that is better.
Nov 29 17:03:53 <felipec> usb networking is quite difficult
Nov 29 17:03:57 <vi____> wires>radio
Nov 29 17:04:07 <kerio> vi____: second best is... idk, bluetooth PAN
Nov 29 17:04:13 <kerio> the range is awful, though
Nov 29 17:40:33 <myname24> Can the digitizer of N900 malfunction because of software installed or overclocking ?
Nov 29 17:49:43 <jacekowski> yes
Nov 29 17:50:03 <jacekowski> though overclocking related fault is unlikely
Nov 29 18:10:12 <myname24> Last month i have been in my village and weather was cold . It may have been moisture
Nov 29 18:11:26 <myname24> But yesterday it worked for a while after rice and sun therapy and I decided to revert to stock speed and disable smart reflex . Now it work flawlessly :D
Nov 29 18:14:10 <DocScrutinizer05> RICE!!! waaah!
Nov 29 18:14:22 <Sicelo> interesting
Nov 29 18:14:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rice
Nov 29 18:14:34 <freemangordon> ъеах, рице
Nov 29 18:14:34 <infobot> rice is probably good for you
Nov 29 18:14:39 <freemangordon> sorry
Nov 29 18:14:46 <freemangordon> yeah, rice
Nov 29 18:14:49 <DocScrutinizer05> but not for your electronics
Nov 29 18:15:12 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it is. it acts like silicagel
Nov 29 18:15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> bullshit
Nov 29 18:15:25 <freemangordon> yeah, sure
Nov 29 18:16:10 * SpeedEvil grrs.
Nov 29 18:16:21 <DocScrutinizer05> rice is stored at "open air" for months or years, and suddenly when your N900 is near, it starts hygroscopic properties? BWAHAHA
Nov 29 18:16:32 <SpeedEvil> I need to do a proper video demonstration that rice is not magic
Nov 29 18:17:23 <freemangordon> "open air" moisture is less than that of the device dropped in water
Nov 29 18:17:37 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: maybe rice is like silica gel. But then it is like silica gel that been stored in open air for 3 years
Nov 29 18:17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> *completely* saturated
Nov 29 18:18:12 <DocScrutinizer05> err wut???
Nov 29 18:18:34 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: so, salt is not hygroscopic, because it is stored on open air?
Nov 29 18:21:19 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it's not hygroscopic because it's NaCl
Nov 29 18:25:10 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy
Nov 29 18:26:53 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah fine, so wrap it in paper, same effect as salt
Nov 29 18:27:22 <DocScrutinizer05> probably beans are also "hygroscopic"
Nov 29 18:27:29 <freemangordon> and rice grains are used to keep table salt from moisturing
Nov 29 18:27:38 <DocScrutinizer05> BULLSHIT!!!!
Nov 29 18:27:58 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: well, at least thats what we use here. And it works
Nov 29 18:28:10 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: where could i buy some silica gel, btw?
Nov 29 18:28:22 <kerio> i've only seen it in shoe boxes
Nov 29 18:28:32 <kerio> in those tiny paper bags
Nov 29 18:28:39 <freemangordon> kerio: buy lots of shoes :P
Nov 29 18:28:42 <kerio> hah
Nov 29 18:29:35 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ask someone living near the see how they keep table salt from moisturing, and be my guest to say "BULLSHIT!!!!" again
Nov 29 18:29:57 <DocScrutinizer05> BULLSHIT!!!
Nov 29 18:30:07 <DocScrutinizer05> rice in salt is a mechanical effect
Nov 29 18:30:45 <DocScrutinizer05> you as well could use small polystyrene balls
Nov 29 18:30:47 <freemangordon> No matter what effect is, the end result is that the salt is dry
Nov 29 18:31:06 <freemangordon> whatever
Nov 29 18:31:16 <kerio> no, the end result is that the salt falls down the shaker
Nov 29 18:31:26 <DocScrutinizer05> do you think industry would use expensive silica gel if rice had *any* effect, even when using ten times the amount of silica gel?
Nov 29 18:31:55 <freemangordon> I am not saying that rice is as effective as silica gel is
Nov 29 18:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> no, the slat isn't 'dry', it's just not agglomerating
Nov 29 18:32:33 <DocScrutinizer05> salt*
Nov 29 18:32:36 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: bullshit
Nov 29 18:32:43 <freemangordon> it is dry, try it somday
Nov 29 18:32:47 <freemangordon> *someday
Nov 29 18:33:57 <DocScrutinizer05> listen buddy, take a dish with 20ml water and a dish with 50g of salt and place them under a cheese cover
Nov 29 18:35:29 <DocScrutinizer05> you honestly suggest that ~30 grains of rice could take the moisture that you suppose would constantly be aggregated by your salt in your salt dispenser? for how long? why?
Nov 29 18:36:08 <DocScrutinizer05> you as well could claim that the water molecules in air are scared by the rice and do not enter the salt dispenser
Nov 29 18:38:52 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: what I say is that the salt remains dry for much longer compared to without rice
Nov 29 18:39:20 <freemangordon> of course it moistures at the end
Nov 29 18:39:28 <DocScrutinizer05> a very obvious and evident consideration: what are you buying for rice in supermarket? a paper bag with 500g rice. Do you think this paper bag will weigh 600g after standing there for 4 weeks in your seaside village?
Nov 29 18:40:01 <kerio> not if it's vacuum-sealed!
Nov 29 18:40:02 * kerio flees
Nov 29 18:41:04 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: 100 ml of water is waaay too much. On room temperature
Nov 29 18:42:09 <freemangordon> BTW you could try to explain the effect - salt remains dry, without anyone shaking the saltier every now and then
Nov 29 18:42:36 <DocScrutinizer05> my salt stays dry without rice
Nov 29 18:44:38 <DocScrutinizer05> here we got huge sheds where literally hundereds of tons of salt are stored for de-icing the streets. Nobody ever seen this salt getting wet or to agglutinate
Nov 29 18:44:53 <DocScrutinizer05> unless the roof leaks and rain comes in
Nov 29 18:44:59 <RST38h> Germany!
Nov 29 18:45:04 <RST38h> The land of order!
Nov 29 18:45:11 <myname24> It depends on the climate
Nov 29 18:45:23 <Lava_Croft> and the kind of salt
Nov 29 18:45:47 <Lava_Croft> here in NL the salt for de-icing is treated 
Nov 29 18:45:48 <RST38h> Moscow apparently uses sand this winter.
Nov 29 18:45:49 <Lava_Croft> with whatever
Nov 29 18:46:04 <Lava_Croft> Sand is quite common to use in scandinavia too, iirc
Nov 29 18:46:14 <Lava_Croft> you just suck it up with a snorting machine when spring arrives
Nov 29 18:46:48 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, you must be rich over there in Netherlands, treating your de-icing salt
Nov 29 18:47:21 <DocScrutinizer05> here we pick it directly from the saline
Nov 29 18:47:28 <Lava_Croft> we mostly use a kind of 'open asphalt concrete'
Nov 29 18:47:42 <Lava_Croft> for better water drainage
Nov 29 18:47:55 <Lava_Croft> this does pose problems when putting shit on the road against ice, since it goes all into the asphalt
Nov 29 18:48:18 <Lava_Croft> apparently that requires some kind of treatment for the salt
Nov 29 18:48:22 <Lava_Croft> and rules out the use of sand
Nov 29 18:52:27 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: my salt stands dry here in Sofia too, but Sofia far from the see. 
Nov 29 18:52:58 <freemangordon> *is far
Nov 29 18:53:30 <DocScrutinizer05> probably the use of rice instead of silica gel for keeping sealed goods dry is patented, that's why nobody in industry dares to use that alternative method despite it's "green" and 1000 tmes cheaper
Nov 29 18:55:52 <myname24> Well after 7 hours of working normally now it stopped for some reason ( digitizer )
Nov 29 18:57:16 <myname24> And also right now original state restored . What could be wrong ? 
Nov 29 18:58:02 <DocScrutinizer05> FPC defect. Or digitizer defect
Nov 29 19:00:04 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly. Place 50.00g rice together with a dish full with water under a cheese cover or in a tupperware box for 24h. Then weigh the rice
Nov 29 19:00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> make sure you don't spill water over the rice directly
Nov 29 19:04:54 <vi_> ShadowJK: ping.
Nov 29 19:05:17 <DocScrutinizer05> or place one dish with 10ml water under a cheese cover together with a dish with 100g rice, and an identical dish with 10ml water directly next to the cheese cover under open air. See which dries faster
Nov 29 19:05:53 <vi_> aaah the old 'leave it in a bag of rice hoax'.
Nov 29 19:06:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I offer a bet: 100 bucks on the open air
Nov 29 19:06:10 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: yep
Nov 29 19:06:14 <DocScrutinizer05> >:-(
Nov 29 19:06:26 <vi_> someone drop their phone in a toilet?
Nov 29 19:07:26 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh I didn't follow the original issue, just read "drying it with the rice patent" OWTTE
Nov 29 19:07:33 <vi_> leave it in a tub with some silica gel crystals.
Nov 29 19:07:40 <DocScrutinizer05> instantly made me start ranting
Nov 29 19:07:47 <kerio> vi_: where can i get those? :O
Nov 29 19:07:58 <vi_> or strip it down to parts and leave it in the air for a couple of days.
Nov 29 19:08:14 <vi_> kerio: a tub? i dunno, ebay or somthing.
Nov 29 19:12:58 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: google "buy silica gel"
Nov 29 19:22:15 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: rice withdrawing moisture is not an urban legend
Nov 29 19:23:00 <freemangordon> I gave you the salt example.
Nov 29 19:23:32 <freemangordon> And I can witness it works (for salt)
Nov 29 19:23:57 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: you proved one urban legend with another example of wild guessing and not knowing about the facts
Nov 29 19:24:11 <DocScrutinizer05> I told you why it works
Nov 29 19:24:16 <DocScrutinizer05> you ignored that
Nov 29 19:24:24 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: rice keeping salt dry IS NOT an urban legend
Nov 29 19:25:39 <DocScrutinizer05> evidently 20 grains of rice CAN NOT bind all the water that you assume the salt would aggregate in weeks and months of storing it in open air
Nov 29 19:26:50 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: not 20, but 3. And who talks about open air? saltiers are usually close, with just a few tiny holes on top
Nov 29 19:26:52 <DocScrutinizer05> if rice would work in salt like you suggested, it would 'expire' and need swapping for 'fresh' rice after a few weeks
Nov 29 19:27:03 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: sure
Nov 29 19:27:22 <freemangordon> but by that time the salt in the saltier needs to be "changed" too
Nov 29 19:27:33 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Nov 29 19:28:03 <freemangordon> the point is that without rice it gets wet in 2 days. with rice - in 2 weeks
Nov 29 19:28:12 <freemangordon> got it?
Nov 29 19:28:18 <DocScrutinizer05> bullshit
Nov 29 19:28:30 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: what is wrong with you?
Nov 29 19:28:41 <freemangordon> take your pills, please
Nov 29 19:28:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't take shit
Nov 29 19:30:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I explained several scientific approaches to prove your claims. Until then you at best make it on my ignore list if you don't stop spreading baseless bogus claims 
Nov 29 19:32:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I even offered a rather attractive bet to you, you ignored it and instead continue to try to convince me by spreading BS here
Nov 29 19:34:15 <cjdavies> jesus tittyfucking christ
Nov 29 19:34:22 <cjdavies> got the wvdial thing working
Nov 29 19:34:25 <cjdavies> this is so fucking convenient
Nov 29 19:34:45 <cjdavies> turns out I just needed to randomly copypasta a random phone number string from some random pastebin
Nov 29 19:34:53 <kerio> *99#?
Nov 29 19:34:55 <cjdavies> also, glad this was the right channel when I started typing that
Nov 29 19:34:57 <kerio> that's like standard
Nov 29 19:34:58 <cjdavies> something like that
Nov 29 19:35:00 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: you may call it bullshit or whatever, but rice keeping the salt dry(in saltier) is a fact of life. Ask whoever you want and who lives in a place with high humidity. I am out of that conversation, as it is pointless
Nov 29 19:35:19 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Nov 29 19:35:23 <DocScrutinizer05> F O!
Nov 29 19:35:32 <freemangordon> ~F O
Nov 29 19:36:41 <kerio> "Even 11.11 oz ( a lot more than those few grains of rice in a shaker) of very dried rice in a very humid day did not absort any noticeable moisture."
Nov 29 19:36:58 <DocScrutinizer05> fact of life is that a few grains of whatever in salt stop it from agglutinating
Nov 29 19:37:16 <kerio> rice in salt prevents clumping *mechanically*
Nov 29 19:37:40 <kerio> hell, it probably works well because the salt keeps the rice dry
Nov 29 19:37:50 <DocScrutinizer05> any relation to humidity yet to prove, and simple applied logic shows it can't be the hygroscopic properties of rice that cause it
Nov 29 19:38:11 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: good point :-D
Nov 29 19:49:58 <DocScrutinizer05> and btw even that "fact of life" is not really commonly accepted as true. Several scientists state that the rice is a placebo, and A vs B tests show no clear results
Nov 29 19:53:44 <vi_> I dunno.
Nov 29 19:54:05 <vi_> There does apppear to be some papers written on the subject.
Nov 29 19:54:39 <DocScrutinizer05> and the 'hygroscopic properties of NaCl' are also nonsense. In former times it been Mg and Ca salts in stone salt that are really extremely hygroscopic and rice might suck up the watery solution of CaCl and thus keep the NaCl "dry"
Nov 29 19:56:16 <DocScrutinizer05> this however doesn't mean that rice is particularly hygroscopic
Nov 29 19:57:18 <DocScrutinizer05> a few small balls (or stripes) of paper towel in the salt would serve same purpose as the rice
Nov 29 20:07:32 <DocScrutinizer05> btw this reasoning pretty much explains why scientific research regarding rice in salt doesn't yiled coherent results. One salt isn't like the other, and it's actually the percentage of CaCl in ordinary salt that's relevant for the results
Nov 29 20:07:43 <DocScrutinizer05> yield*
Nov 29 20:11:43 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride  "Because of its hygroscopic nature, anhydrous calcium chloride must be kept in tightly sealed, air-tight containers."   "The anhydrous salt is deliquescent; it can accumulate enough water in its crystal lattice to form a solution."
Nov 29 20:12:58 <DocScrutinizer05> now that we made that clear, it's hopefully evident that rice is ineffective to dry electronics by just placing them into rice
Nov 29 20:14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> placing them into (or rather next to) unrefined stone salt would for sure have better (since _any_) effect
Nov 29 20:15:23 <SpeedEvil> place in oven at 70c for a day
Nov 29 20:16:00 <SpeedEvil> I did this to an entire laptop (minus ram and HD) after washing thouroughky in water.
Nov 29 20:16:23 <SpeedEvil> ( I'd poured quite a lot of coffee through the CPU fan inlet)
Nov 29 20:24:50 <vi_> SpeedEvil: niceone
Nov 29 20:25:15 <SpeedEvil> works fine several months later.
Nov 29 20:25:21 <SpeedEvil> also a lot cleaner
Nov 29 20:26:20 <trumee> SpeedEvil: my experience with android, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1289795&postcount=623
Nov 29 20:26:26 <NeutrinoPower> I want use sipgate with Maemo, what is the adress? user-ID@sipgate.de or username@sipgate.de ?
Nov 29 20:27:25 <SpeedEvil> trumee: quasseldroid
Nov 29 20:27:55 <trumee> SpeedEvil: i run znc bouncer, can quasseldroid work with it?
Nov 29 20:28:02 <SpeedEvil> no
Nov 29 20:28:12 <SpeedEvil> it's sort of an alternative to bouncers
Nov 29 20:28:15 <Sicelo900> why not?
Nov 29 20:28:27 <SpeedEvil> there os a persistent core, on an always up machine
Nov 29 20:28:29 <SpeedEvil> is
Nov 29 20:28:41 <SpeedEvil> clients connect to this.
Nov 29 20:29:05 <SpeedEvil> and act like they were never discojpnnected 
Nov 29 20:29:13 <trumee> SpeedEvil: doesnt it need a specific quassel client, rather than any generic client?
Nov 29 20:29:18 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 29 20:29:35 <SpeedEvil> qd is a android client
Nov 29 20:29:45 <trumee> SpeedEvil: is there a N900 client?
Nov 29 20:29:54 <SpeedEvil> I vaguely remember one
Nov 29 20:30:09 <ShadowJK> iirc Luke-Jr uses quassel
Nov 29 20:30:11 <Sicelo900> yes, there is quassel for N900
Nov 29 20:30:17 <SpeedEvil> in principle, it's qt
Nov 29 20:30:50 <trumee> SpeedEvil: also, is it possible to export a calender from N900 and import it on android Without going through google?
Nov 29 20:31:11 <Sicelo900> heh. 
Nov 29 20:31:17 <SpeedEvil> no idea
Nov 29 20:31:33 <Sicelo900> i think not.
Nov 29 20:31:39 <freemangordon> trumee: is it possible to do anything on android without google?
Nov 29 20:31:43 <trumee> Sicelo: what a shame!
Nov 29 20:31:43 <SpeedEvil> my calendar at the moment has two events
Nov 29 20:31:51 <trumee> freemangordon: i am trying to work that out :)
Nov 29 20:31:56 <Sicelo900> the few droids i've seen can't import vcals
Nov 29 20:32:07 <SpeedEvil> and one of those is to remjng me to take out the bins
Nov 29 20:33:34 <trumee> maecaltool on maemo doesnt work either for me.
Nov 29 20:33:46 <Sicelo900> trumee: it might be possible.. now i think of it. if you have access to an ms exchange server, lol
Nov 29 20:35:32 <trumee> ah, maecaltool works fine now
Nov 29 20:35:53 <trumee> Sicelo: android is very limiting on standard things
Nov 29 20:41:04 <Sicelo900> today i attached to a cisco router's console via the console cable + usb-serial adapter + h.e.n , and dealth a huge blow to all the techs i work with, who own different types of android & iphone devices
Nov 29 20:47:06 <vi_> Sicelo900: fucking nice one!
Nov 29 20:47:36 <vi_> real(ish) serial port on the n900 is badass.
Nov 29 20:48:41 <teotwaki_> the fact you don't have a serial terminal in server room big enough to house multiple techs is slightly worrying.
Nov 29 20:49:08 <vi_> that also.
Nov 29 20:49:26 <Sicelo900> heh
Nov 29 20:49:30 <vi_> he probably did, but needed to swag his e-peen.
Nov 29 20:49:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<SpeedEvil> place in oven at 70c for a day)) yep, absolutely correct
Nov 29 20:49:57 <Sicelo900> vi_: exactly.. it was just a 'naughty' gamble, 
Nov 29 20:51:25 <trumee> seems maecaltool cannot create individal ics files for events
Nov 29 21:00:39 <Sicelo900> hmm, 70c for a day... DocScrutinizer05, SpeedEvil we're talking degrees celcius?
Nov 29 21:02:04 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Nov 29 21:02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> the exhaust fan of your PC or laptop is a pretty good place to dry electronics
Nov 29 21:03:14 <Sicelo900> i'd have thought that's a bit too high. then again, thanks for this info
Nov 29 21:03:17 <Sicelo900> :-)
Nov 29 21:03:47 <SpeedEvil> Sicelo: consider the temperature of an item left on a car seat in the sun
Nov 29 21:03:52 <DocScrutinizer05> well, it's kinda upper limit. you shouldn't go any higher than 70°C
Nov 29 21:03:59 <SpeedEvil> indeed
Nov 29 21:04:36 <SpeedEvil> you need to get water out of .5mm thick gaps that may be 20mm derp
Nov 29 21:04:39 <SpeedEvil> deep
Nov 29 21:04:59 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 29 21:05:01 <SpeedEvil> that takes a fair amount of drying
Nov 29 21:05:13 <DocScrutinizer05> rinsing with 98% ethanol is a good idea
Nov 29 21:05:22 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 29 21:05:23 <DocScrutinizer05> it replaces the water
Nov 29 21:05:36 <SpeedEvil> I diddn't have any to hand.
Nov 29 21:05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> and evaporates way quicker, and is less conductive
Nov 29 21:05:46 <SpeedEvil> I was feeling truly crap
Nov 29 21:06:01 <SpeedEvil> hence wash the whole thing was the only option
Nov 29 21:06:16 <SpeedEvil> dissasembly wasn't an option
Nov 29 21:21:42 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: btw, what happened to the irc cloaks?
Nov 29 21:25:29 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: I have to send a mail, didn't get around to it yet. don't hold your breath though, historically it takes weeks to months to process cloak changes
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 30 02:59:58 2012