**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 03 02:59:59 2012
Dec 03 05:03:57 <kwtm7> remind me -- what do I do if the ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db  database fills up, so that response is really sluggish?  (I tried deleting it, thinking the system would just regenerate it, but put it back after 24 hours of malfunctioning horror)
Dec 03 05:20:18 <Ken-Young> kwtm7, WHat events get logged to that database?
Dec 03 05:35:22 <kwtm7> Ken-Young: mainly phone calls and SMS
Dec 03 06:52:34 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm7: http://discussions.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-and-MeeGo-Devices/Maemo-Conversations/td-p/1034177
Dec 03 07:06:40 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm7: it's not exactly about deleting that db
Dec 03 07:07:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but I think with sqlite3 frontend deleting all records should be simple
Dec 03 07:07:30 <DocScrutinizer05> google is your friend
Dec 03 07:15:15 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm7: another method might be to select "delete conversations" from conversations pulldown menu, then select *all* conversations with ctrl-A from kbd, and click "delete"
Dec 03 07:16:14 <DocScrutinizer05> alas same procedure doesn't work for call history
Dec 03 07:18:50 <DocScrutinizer05> so: http://www.sqlite.org/lang_delete.html
Dec 03 07:20:49 <DocScrutinizer05> >>If the WHERE clause is not present, all records in the table are deleted<<
Dec 03 07:21:19 <DocScrutinizer05> in any case, CREATE A BACKUP of ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db !
Dec 03 07:32:31 <DocScrutinizer05> fool's solution ;-): sqlite3 ~user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db-backup .dump|grep CREATE|sqlite3 ~user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db
Dec 03 09:21:19 <deepy> Can I make my N900 stop beeping at night just because the battery is low?
Dec 03 09:21:32 <deepy> I think I jumped up through the roof at 2AM
Dec 03 09:21:54 <tadzik> wow, it beeps on low battery? That's news to me
Dec 03 09:21:57 <deepy> And the feelings of guilt from charging my almost full cell instead of the almost empty one didn't subside for at least an hour
Dec 03 09:22:37 <deepy> It doesn't beep on low battery?
Dec 03 09:25:31 <DocScrutinizer05> errrr http://opencharities.org/charities/1082252
Dec 03 09:25:43 <DocScrutinizer05> hildon foundation
Dec 03 09:26:54 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: deepy: sure it makes weird sounds on low battery
Dec 03 09:28:39 <DocScrutinizer05> play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-battery_low.wav
Dec 03 09:29:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and, **special**: play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-recharge_battery.wav
Dec 03 09:30:21 <DocScrutinizer05> deepy: ((Can I make my N900 stop beeping...) sure! power it down, or charge it ;-D
Dec 03 09:31:17 * tadzik whispers: "or remove the wav file!" and hides
Dec 03 09:31:51 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that's a possibility to just stop the empty-bat warning
Dec 03 09:32:16 <DocScrutinizer05> the more genuine and sane way though would be to set system-sounds to 0 in settings
Dec 03 09:32:39 <DocScrutinizer05> will affect all system sounds
Dec 03 09:33:40 <DocScrutinizer05> (like charging notification, connection-established notification...)
Dec 03 09:38:47 <DocScrutinizer05> cd /usr/share/sounds/; for f in ui-charging_started.wav ui-connection_lost.wav presence-offline.wav presence-online.wav; do play-sound $f; sleep 1;done;
Dec 03 09:39:06 <deepy> I'll lower the system sounds then
Dec 03 09:39:37 <DocScrutinizer05> play-sound is unrelated to systemsounds volume!
Dec 03 09:40:03 <DocScrutinizer05> just in case you might've pondered to check volume with the line I pasted above
Dec 03 09:41:31 <DocScrutinizer05> for f in /usr/share/sounds/*.wav; do play-sound $f; sleep 1;done;
Dec 03 09:41:34 <deepy> Oh I don't have my N900 with me
Dec 03 09:41:36 <DocScrutinizer05> is funny though
Dec 03 09:41:53 <deepy> It's at home
Dec 03 09:42:35 <tadzik> stationary phone? :)
Dec 03 09:44:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and the diagnostic output is hilarious
Dec 03 09:44:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): Success
Dec 03 09:44:28 <DocScrutinizer05> callback called, error 'Success'
Dec 03 09:45:37 <deepy> Well, I need to have 3G to even get a signal with Meteor :p
Dec 03 09:55:12 <Pali> deepy, open control panel, then profile settings and set system sounds to 0 or off
Dec 03 09:55:37 <Pali> battery low volume level is stored in profiled daemon settings
Dec 03 09:55:49 <Pali> in some system sound key
Dec 03 09:57:04 <Pali> I'm using Timed Silencer application where can be configured switching to silent profile at night
Dec 03 09:57:20 <Pali> (it using alarmd for executing commands)
Dec 03 09:57:48 <deepy> Cheers, but Doc beat you to it :-P
Dec 03 09:57:56 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, ^^^^ another good feature of alarmd :D
Dec 03 09:57:59 <deepy> Well, the first line, the rest was interesting on it's own though
Dec 03 10:04:06 <dimir> Hello there!
Dec 03 10:04:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I prefer alarmed for that
Dec 03 10:04:45 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds more universal purpose than Timed Silencer application
Dec 03 10:05:04 <dimir> Quick question. I was wondering how easy it is to change the n900 motherboard by myself. I'm not an expert in these things but was wondering should I trust this operation to the specialist or it's safe to do that at home?
Dec 03 10:05:52 <dimir> The thing is, on my n900 the GSM-module died. I have found the guy that has broken display on his n900 and willing to sell it cheap. I need to make sure his motherboard is fine before buying it.
Dec 03 10:06:38 <DocScrutinizer05> swap is simple
Dec 03 10:06:57 <dimir> You mean swapping the motherboard?
Dec 03 10:07:05 <DocScrutinizer05> making sure that this mainboard is OK is a tad more demanding task
Dec 03 10:07:10 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Dec 03 10:07:14 <dimir> Ah.
Dec 03 10:07:15 <dimir> Shit.
Dec 03 10:07:46 <dimir> Is there something you could recommend?
Dec 03 10:07:48 <dimir> What would you do?
Dec 03 10:08:02 <dimir> He is selling his n900 for 40$ USD.
Dec 03 10:08:04 <DocScrutinizer05> get the board, swap, see if everything ok
Dec 03 10:08:16 <dimir> How much time would it take?
Dec 03 10:08:26 <dimir> I wouldn't want to hold the seller for an hour. :-D
Dec 03 10:08:29 <DocScrutinizer05> 60min
Dec 03 10:08:32 <dimir> Ah
Dec 03 10:08:33 <dimir> Shit.
Dec 03 10:09:00 <DocScrutinizer05> you might be able to swap screen half in 20 min
Dec 03 10:09:08 <dimir> Alright, I'll give him a call and find out if his display shows at least something.
Dec 03 10:09:10 <DocScrutinizer05> depending on luck and experience
Dec 03 10:09:17 <dimir> Experience is almost 0.
Dec 03 10:09:44 <DocScrutinizer05> separating kbd and screen half takes ~5 min
Dec 03 10:10:09 <DocScrutinizer05> but plugging in the flex cable connector again may cost you your last hair
Dec 03 10:10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> or might as well be a matter of 20s
Dec 03 10:11:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd get a screen-broken N900 for 40 bucks any time
Dec 03 10:11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> for 30 for sure
Dec 03 10:11:39 <DocScrutinizer05> s/get/buy/
Dec 03 10:11:54 <chem|st> +1
Dec 03 10:12:06 <dimir> Heh, hes device has no display at all. :-D
Dec 03 10:12:07 <DocScrutinizer05> only with working USB though
Dec 03 10:12:45 <dimir> Ah.
Dec 03 10:12:58 <dimir> So in general I could take the risk.
Dec 03 10:12:59 <dimir> Good.
Dec 03 10:13:01 <chem|st> dimir: you can check if everything is working by attaching it to a tv for example
Dec 03 10:13:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, even better. that might mean the screen / display is OK and only main flex connector is defect
Dec 03 10:13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: doesn't work with FPC defect
Dec 03 10:13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> don't ask me why
Dec 03 10:13:36 <dimir> :-D
Dec 03 10:13:56 <dimir> Well, he said he sat on it and the display glass broke. So he took it apart.
Dec 03 10:13:57 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: darn that worked with the broken N9
Dec 03 10:14:06 <dimir> I don't know what does it mean exactly.
Dec 03 10:14:06 <DocScrutinizer05> but you should see proper ENUM in syslog when pluggin in to PC's USB
Dec 03 10:14:40 <dimir> So, in general, swapping the MB is less risk, right?
Dec 03 10:14:42 <DocScrutinizer05> *sigh* so maybe it's not really worth 40 bucks
Dec 03 10:14:50 <dimir> Do I need some special screwdriver for that or anything?
Dec 03 10:14:55 <dimir> Is there a howto for that?
Dec 03 10:14:56 <dimir> :-)
Dec 03 10:15:00 <dimir> I guess there is on youtube.
Dec 03 10:15:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, yes
Dec 03 10:15:06 <DocScrutinizer05> nope
Dec 03 10:15:13 <DocScrutinizer05> well, possibly
Dec 03 10:15:19 <chem|st> P0 and T5 iirc
Dec 03 10:15:26 <DocScrutinizer05> TX6
Dec 03 10:15:32 <DocScrutinizer05> and Ph0
Dec 03 10:15:33 <chem|st> oh 6 it was...
Dec 03 10:16:01 <dimir> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVEHm325-z8 n900 disassembly
Dec 03 10:16:08 <chem|st> in long Philips0 and Torx6
Dec 03 10:16:45 <DocScrutinizer05> MEH http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/ ->404
Dec 03 10:17:23 <DocScrutinizer05> google for N900 L1_L2
Dec 03 10:17:37 <dimir> PH0 and T6 says in the video.
Dec 03 10:18:30 <DocScrutinizer05> forget all those videos, they often are missleading
Dec 03 10:19:10 <dimir> OK. Well, thanks a lot for the info. I think I'll first practice a bit at home and then when I meet the guy I do the swap quicker.
Dec 03 10:19:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch, the tehkseven vid
Dec 03 10:19:26 <dimir> Which one?
Dec 03 10:19:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yours
Dec 03 10:19:50 <DocScrutinizer05> same as my dead link, but it's no good video
Dec 03 10:20:04 <DocScrutinizer05> get service manual L1_L2
Dec 03 10:20:06 <dimir> It's no good?
Dec 03 10:20:28 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, it neglects some important details
Dec 03 10:21:05 <DocScrutinizer05> and it does nonsense
Dec 03 10:21:39 <dimir> I got the manual, thanks.
Dec 03 10:21:57 <DocScrutinizer05> nonsense: removing the "I'm not sure what's that" GSM antenna. Neglect: "please be careful with that one"
Dec 03 10:22:20 <dimir> :-D
Dec 03 10:22:59 <DocScrutinizer05> you probably don't want to disassemble the screen assembly half at all
Dec 03 10:25:00 <dimir> yeah.
Dec 03 10:25:36 <DocScrutinizer05> just *carefully* unplug the flat plastic connector ribbon from mainboard, and swap screen completely
Dec 03 10:26:03 <DocScrutinizer05> don't bend or pull the flat plastic connector
Dec 03 10:26:26 <DocScrutinizer05> they call it main flex connector iirc
Dec 03 10:28:31 <DocScrutinizer05> but honestly, when that guy planted his fat back on the screen so it cracked, then disassembled it and wrecked it some more, it's questionable if that device is still worth 40 bucks
Dec 03 10:29:12 <DocScrutinizer05> at very least connect his device to a linux PC and check PC's syslog
Dec 03 10:29:28 <DocScrutinizer05> so you can be sure the board is semi-alive at least
Dec 03 10:29:36 <DocScrutinizer05> incl USB
Dec 03 10:30:32 <dimir> Ah, good idea. I'll take my notebook with me.
Dec 03 10:31:05 <DocScrutinizer05> and a charged BL-5C
Dec 03 10:31:05 <dimir> Well, what wonders me, he said the device works properly, I wonder how did he conclude that.
Dec 03 10:31:17 <dimir> DocScrutinizer05: the battery?
Dec 03 10:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Dec 03 10:31:49 <DocScrutinizer05> odds are his battery is depleted and without battery it won't really boot
Dec 03 10:32:41 <DocScrutinizer05> put a mark on yours, so you don't swap it
Dec 03 10:33:07 <DocScrutinizer05> dimir: German?
Dec 03 10:33:49 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly not
Dec 03 10:36:31 <DocScrutinizer05> BL-5J, sorry
Dec 03 10:46:02 <dimir> DocScrutinizer05: me? No. :-D
Dec 03 10:46:52 <dimir> DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for a hint on mirking my MB. He promised to try to connect his phone to a PC to see if it works. He said after the accident he has put it back to the box where it's been for 1 year.
Dec 03 10:48:29 <DocScrutinizer05> I meant your battery though ;-)
Dec 03 10:49:38 <DocScrutinizer05> actually mainboard defects might easily be caused by too much mechanical stress, like someone sitting on the device
Dec 03 10:51:00 <DocScrutinizer05> it seems that often the soldering balls of BGA chips disconnect, probably caused (among others) by bending the PCB while chips can't be bent
Dec 03 10:53:30 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, good luck!
Dec 03 11:06:14 <Aoyagi_joytop> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/03/apple_charging_patent/
Dec 03 11:15:25 <Skry> yeah, madness
Dec 03 11:16:00 <Aoyagi_joytop> The top comment is nice.
Dec 03 11:16:09 <Aoyagi_joytop> "I think Nikola Tesla may have a few things to say on applying power at a distance wirelessly.."
Dec 03 11:18:33 <Skry> Yup :D I read somewhere that some parties are already negotiating about possibility of patenting (human) genes, in simple terms.
Dec 03 11:20:02 <Aoyagi_joytop> Sure, let's patent breathing :D
Dec 03 11:23:26 <Skry> it's coming.. :)
Dec 03 11:52:43 <ShadowJK> there are already gene patents I think?
Dec 03 11:57:58 <chem|st> wasn't it tesla who said it is no problem to power a town OTA?
Dec 03 11:59:47 <Hurrian> Let's patent a "method of filing exclusive rights by a recognized authority, to concepts pertaining to machines and methods", and torpedo every patent holder in existence.
Dec 03 12:01:26 <chem|st> Hurrian: patent education and sue 1 year old children's parents!
Dec 03 12:02:17 <chem|st> that would at least lead to an end!
Dec 03 12:03:27 <chem|st> I am fed with all those "The first foobar ever" commercials by apple...
Dec 03 12:04:09 <Hurrian> "A method of absorption of information from sources recognized by an apparatus, which by mechanical, chemical, electromagnetic or analogous means classifies and relates the information obtained into a database" 
Dec 03 12:04:30 <Hurrian> oh man, that's loaded with so much buzzwords the patent office has to accept that
Dec 03 12:04:53 <jon_y> Wireless Charging? Will there be a backlash like wifi? :)
Dec 03 12:05:02 <jon_y> surely it is higher power than wifi
Dec 03 12:05:18 <jon_y> spread the word, Apple causes cancer! :)
Dec 03 12:05:21 <Aoyagi_joytop> It's not really related, me thinks.
Dec 03 12:05:32 <chem|st> jon_y: 2 different things
Dec 03 12:05:43 <jon_y> well, people think EM causes cancer
Dec 03 12:05:52 <Aoyagi_joytop> People are idiots, end of story.
Dec 03 12:06:08 <Hurrian> chem|st: THEY'RE SENDING POWER OVER THE AIR! SORCERY, I TELL YOU! RAISE YOUR PITCHFORKS!
Dec 03 12:06:14 <jon_y> right, so I was wondering if the same idiots will make noise
Dec 03 12:06:39 <Aoyagi_joytop> Noise is all they can do as we have superior technology :P
Dec 03 12:06:42 <jon_y> also, cellphone emission cancer
Dec 03 12:06:56 <chem|st> Hurrian: ouh in saudi arabia you get stonewalled for that
Dec 03 12:07:02 <jon_y> cancer everything :)
Dec 03 12:07:05 <Hurrian> it's inevitable - someone even called RFID tags the mark of the devil, iirc.
Dec 03 12:07:22 <Aoyagi_joytop> "If you like, put an egg on your cellphone, it like, totally cooks the egg"
Dec 03 12:07:24 <Hurrian> not to say that tracking isn't bad, but the dude literally said it was the mark of the devil, see the bible.
Dec 03 12:07:44 <jon_y> I am a very model of an infrared range radioactive source
Dec 03 12:08:06 <jon_y> surely I cause cancer by being in the same room :)
Dec 03 12:08:15 <Aoyagi_joytop> and actually
Dec 03 12:08:20 <Aoyagi_joytop> she said "I feel it's the implementation of the Mark of the Beast"
Dec 03 12:08:23 <Hurrian> jon_y, so, if you're a cancer causing IR source, what isn't?
Dec 03 12:08:24 <Hurrian> ;)
Dec 03 12:08:46 <jon_y> I was just wodering how they'd freak out :)
Dec 03 12:08:48 <Hurrian> EVERYTHING CAUSES CANCER! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES AND UNMUTATED CELLULAR NUCLEI!
Dec 03 12:08:51 <Aoyagi_joytop> Oh and I thought this was a different channel :D
Dec 03 12:08:59 <chem|st> you are definetely a source... of what kind is to be determined
Dec 03 12:09:45 <chem|st> well back to charging OTA
Dec 03 12:10:16 <chem|st> has s/o tried to reassamble a wireless charger to a n900's backpanel?
Dec 03 12:10:34 * ShadowJK finds it amusing that 666 is a mistranslation
Dec 03 12:11:07 <chem|st> ShadowJK: so what...
Dec 03 12:11:08 <Aoyagi_joytop> Most of the bible things are.
Dec 03 12:11:11 <jaska> dclxvi!
Dec 03 12:11:19 <jon_y> aww, Jewish numerology
Dec 03 12:11:57 <ShadowJK> You'd think since it's like almost only exact figure in the whole book people would've paid more attention to get it right
Dec 03 12:14:52 <Aoyagi_joytop> They are Catholics, they don't question. They accept.
Dec 03 12:16:30 <kolp> chem|st: I just got myself 2 spare palm pre backcover sto take apart and put into the n900 to use with my touchstone charger
Dec 03 12:17:03 <chem|st> kolp: pictures?!
Dec 03 12:17:13 <chem|st> kolp: keep the community posted
Dec 03 12:17:34 <kolp> It's not done yet. :) There's an old thread on TMO where someone achieved that
Dec 03 12:18:42 <kolp> chem|st: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56950
Dec 03 14:15:14 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: ping
Dec 03 14:16:11 <cehteh> hi
Dec 03 14:18:25 <fastlane`> hi
Dec 03 14:18:42 <cehteh> my n900 loosing wlan connection and cant reconnect until i reboot it since some time, anyone of you heared of this issue?
Dec 03 14:20:53 <cehteh> going out of range, switching to wwan .. coming back and it wont reconnnect
Dec 03 14:34:25 <r00t|home> never had such problems...
Dec 03 14:34:32 <r00t|home> does it just not scan for wlans/try to connect?
Dec 03 14:34:39 <r00t|home> or does it try and fails?
Dec 03 14:35:04 <teotwaki> So, massive fail.
Dec 03 14:36:00 <teotwaki> I developed a new function on one of our products, testing it quickly, build an rpm, send it to the test environment, play with it. Small problems, fine tune it... aaaaand, stuck. Bug. Regression. No data is detected anymore, parsing errors everywhere.
Dec 03 14:37:07 <teotwaki> My direct co-worker starts looking with me, we find a quick helper function that always returns 1, for some reason, so we add a breakpoint in that function, test it, breakpoint doesn't get triggered. Ok, wanna play? I add a delete (char *) 0x12345678; compile, test again, no coredump.
Dec 03 14:37:14 <teotwaki> Ok, wait, what?
Dec 03 14:37:51 <teotwaki> I check the gcc/clang version, maybe some newfangled noob error handling that prevents you from coredumping by your own accord, I decide to simply to a cout to see what the values are, disregarding the logging system. Nothing.
Dec 03 14:38:00 <teotwaki> Turns out, we were adding code *after* the return line.
Dec 03 14:38:28 <teotwaki> So, that's all nice, we now see the values, but they still don't add up. How can 84 - 16 = 1?
Dec 03 14:38:43 <teotwaki> Turns out I wrote "bool", instead of unsigned long int.
Dec 03 14:38:59 <dimir> [12:53] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, good luck! <- Thanks! :-)
Dec 03 15:05:46 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, pong?
Dec 03 15:06:53 <vi_> I have found a novel way of keeping the squirrels out of my bird feeder.
Dec 03 15:07:05 <vi_> I have covered the pole in goosefat.
Dec 03 15:07:23 <vi_> Now they jump on and try to climb but slide down.
Dec 03 15:07:35 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Dec 03 15:07:44 <GeneralAntilles> Friend of mine tried a bunch of stuff for his hanging feeder
Dec 03 15:07:45 <vi_> But now I have greasy squirrels :/
Dec 03 15:08:06 <GeneralAntilles> finally settled on buying the cheap stuff in bulk from CostCo and putting that on the ground.
Dec 03 15:08:11 <GeneralAntilles> and giving the quality seed to the birds.
Dec 03 15:08:25 <vi_> try mixing in chilli seeds.
Dec 03 15:08:32 <vi_> the birds DGAF.
Dec 03 15:08:37 <GeneralAntilles> vi_, you should hire an oil spill recovery team to clean up your squirrels.
Dec 03 15:08:43 <vi_> the squirrels shit themselves.
Dec 03 15:09:56 <jaska> heh, squirrels will hang upside down to get to the seeeeed
Dec 03 15:32:58 <vi_> uk dvla.  utter SCUM.
Dec 03 15:34:04 <int_ua> Hi. I have four hildon-desktop core dumps in a row. CSSU Tmaemo6. Where should I send them? Leaving in 5 minutes
Dec 03 16:17:22 <vi____> who wants to help a gnoob compile some code?
Dec 03 16:17:28 <vi____> That is me by the way.
Dec 03 16:20:51 <vi____> who was the guy here who suggested the use of codeblocks as a C IDE?
Dec 03 16:21:13 <kolp> vi____: Might have been me
Dec 03 16:21:20 <vi____> aah, yes!
Dec 03 16:21:27 <kolp> Depending on what your impression is ;)
Dec 03 16:21:30 <vi____> You have jsut volunteered yourself!
Dec 03 16:21:36 <vi____> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/magick-wand.php
Dec 03 16:21:43 <vi____> ^how do I compile that?
Dec 03 16:22:09 <vi____> I see I need to get the magickwand library, however I am not sure where I have to put it.
Dec 03 16:22:25 <vi____> I am using debian BTW.
Dec 03 16:22:45 <kolp> Your using c::b on debian?
Dec 03 16:22:51 <vi____> yes.
Dec 03 16:22:56 <vi____> Is that...bad?
Dec 03 16:22:59 <Aoyagi> you're
Dec 03 16:23:41 <vi____> Aoyagi, yes...
Dec 03 16:23:42 <kolp> I guess not. I've never used an IDE on linux for writing code
Dec 03 16:23:58 <vi____> kolp.  aah.
Dec 03 16:24:23 <kolp> Well, you can put that lib wherever you want
Dec 03 16:24:35 <kolp> I guess it would be easiest to install the -dev package
Dec 03 16:25:32 <Aoyagi> vi____: I was correcting kolp, sorry, reflex.
Dec 03 16:26:03 <kolp> Aoyagi: Thanks, just a typo, I know the rules ;)
Dec 03 16:26:59 <Aoyagi> Well, no problem, I can get annoying with that and eventually even banned :D
Dec 03 16:28:59 <kolp> vi____: Btw, are you trying to cross-compile for maemo?
Dec 03 16:32:16 <vi____> kolp, no.  I have SB for that.
Dec 03 16:32:30 <vi____> I am trying to write a firmware patching utility.
Dec 03 16:33:21 <vi____> i.e. a program that will load a firmware file and replace a certain number of bytes starting at a particular offset.
Dec 03 16:33:46 <vi____> If you know of any example code you could point me too, I would be very grateful.
Dec 03 16:37:15 <kolp> Shouldn't be too difficult. You'd just mmap that file and modify those bytes
Dec 03 16:41:28 <vi____> mmap?
Dec 03 16:45:01 <kolp> Used for memory-mapped I/O. I.e. you don't read the whole file into memory but just the chunk you want to access
Dec 03 16:45:10 <kolp> vi____: Check man mmap
Dec 03 16:56:47 <vi____> fuck C::B
Dec 03 16:56:53 <vi____> fucking piece of fucking shit.
Dec 03 16:57:13 <vi____> I will compile it myself.
Dec 03 16:57:22 <vi____> From sh.
Dec 03 16:59:38 <r00t|home> vi____: xxd or dd or such can easiy be used for patching
Dec 03 17:15:31 <juozapas> hi how to disable turning control? after last cssu upgrade it's total mess
Dec 03 17:15:46 <juozapas> orientation lock doesnt help 
Dec 03 18:06:59 <niklaus> hello everyone.
Dec 03 18:08:01 <niklaus> I got a problem: I changed the device lock code on My Nokia N9 and forgot it. That's a bit of a problem! though! I still have SSH access to the device (via the developer account) and can gain root access. Does anyone know how I can reset/disable the device lock from ssh?
Dec 03 18:09:38 <kerio> niklaus: you'll probably find more help in #harmattan
Dec 03 18:12:58 <niklaus> kerio: thx
Dec 03 18:18:52 <ufa> hello :)
Dec 03 18:19:17 <ufa> I am trying to flahs my n900. but the nokia image page does not seem to work :(
Dec 03 18:19:28 <ufa> does anyone knows an alternative location?
Dec 03 18:20:52 <ufa> I am trying to download the flasher too, but not working too
Dec 03 18:25:12 <r00t|home> ufa: the licensing of the nokia images not allow redistribution
Dec 03 19:15:40 <FIQ> hmm
Dec 03 19:16:00 <FIQ> can I somehow avoid the "hey, you clock is reset, go fix it NAO"-screen?
Dec 03 19:16:13 <FIQ> if my clock is reset, I'll see that as soon as I startup anyway
Dec 03 19:16:32 <FIQ> and I really don't like that screen, it just wastes my time with useless junk (at least that's how I see on it :D)
Dec 03 19:17:10 <FIQ> i believe this thing is called "hildon-welcome"
Dec 03 19:17:15 <FIQ> might be wrong on that though
Dec 03 19:19:58 <vi____> FIQ, it is called osso-startup-wizard
Dec 03 19:20:10 <FIQ> oh ok
Dec 03 19:20:13 <vi____> FIQ, You can apt-get purge it
Dec 03 19:20:13 <FIQ> but well...
Dec 03 19:20:20 <vi____> but well what.
Dec 03 19:20:25 <FIQ> ...will my device boot fine afterwards? :P
Dec 03 19:20:34 <vi____> dunno.
Dec 03 19:20:42 <vi____> Depends how you have made your device!
Dec 03 19:20:47 <FIQ> I'd rather not TIAS then
Dec 03 19:20:52 <vi____> I have removed it from my device.
Dec 03 19:20:58 <vi____> WFM
Dec 03 19:21:00 <vi____> YMMV
Dec 03 19:21:00 <FIQ> oh, and it worked fine?
Dec 03 19:21:11 <vi____> Yup.
Dec 03 19:21:17 <FIQ> even on an instance in which it's called (normally)?
Dec 03 19:21:18 <vi____> You have to set the clock by hand though.
Dec 03 19:21:22 <FIQ> yeah ofc
Dec 03 19:21:35 <FIQ> (not that I would need to do that anyway, it doesn't do it for me)
Dec 03 19:21:41 <FIQ> *wouldn't
Dec 03 19:21:53 <vi____> It works for me.
Dec 03 19:21:57 <FIQ> hmm
Dec 03 19:22:06 <FIQ> i'll make a BM backup just in case
Dec 03 19:22:06 <vi____> There was some discussion yesterday as to the best ways to replace it.
Dec 03 19:22:30 <FIQ> i need to do it anyway, was long time ago last time
Dec 03 19:22:43 <vi____> I use a zenity dialogue that lets me type in the time/date like: MMDDhhmmYY
Dec 03 19:22:58 <FIQ> oh another stupidity with this thing
Dec 03 19:23:11 <vi____> r00t|home made a rather nice event.d script that used nptime server.
Dec 03 19:23:14 <FIQ> it lags horribly when setting time/date
Dec 03 19:23:35 <FIQ> unlike when you do it from the settings menu (why is there 2 different ones anyway??)
Dec 03 19:24:03 <vi____> FIQ, Because the osso-startup-wizard is a standalone program that has to run in a raw matchbox session.
Dec 03 19:24:20 <vi____> Where as the settings menu one is a settings menu plugin.
Dec 03 19:24:34 <FIQ> I guess I can live with that explanation
Dec 03 19:25:19 <r00t|home> <r00t|home> vi____: xxd or dd or such can easiy be used for patching
Dec 03 19:25:44 <vi____> I need to write a standalone C program.
Dec 03 19:25:51 <r00t|home> <r00t|home> wget http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc/nokia770/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/system-tools/ntpdate_4.2.0a+stable-9_armel.deb
Dec 03 19:25:51 <r00t|home> <r00t|home> vi_: http://pastebin.com/CCuMgLkX
Dec 03 19:26:13 <r00t|home> <kerio> ohoho, busybox-power has ntpd
Dec 03 19:26:13 <r00t|home> <kerio> r00t|home: ntpd -dnq -p pool.ntp.org
Dec 03 19:26:36 <vi____> FIQ, ^that beauty right there.
Dec 03 19:26:57 <FIQ> i'm quite happy with the answer to my question, was expecting it to be too tightly bound to the system and render it unbootable if I simply removed it
Dec 03 19:26:58 <r00t|home> many improvements have been suggested already
Dec 03 19:27:02 <FIQ> vi_: i'll look into it
Dec 03 19:27:20 <vi____> well screendump the stuff r00t just pasted.
Dec 03 19:27:27 <kerio> FIQ: if removing it makes the system unbootable, then it's a bug
Dec 03 19:27:34 <kerio> because it's not depended upon by stuff
Dec 03 19:27:35 <FIQ> kerio: ok :P
Dec 03 19:27:44 <FIQ> well I did a BM backup anyway
Dec 03 19:27:54 <FIQ> (i need to do it anyway, was too long ago last time)
Dec 03 19:28:42 <r00t|home> kerio: DocScrutinizer does NOT agree with such an interpretation
Dec 03 19:28:55 <FIQ> so let's see
Dec 03 19:29:15 <kerio> DocScrutinizer is a grumpy old man
Dec 03 19:29:20 <r00t|home> kerio: he pointed out before that running 'apt-get autoremove' will make your system unbootable
Dec 03 19:29:23 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: :3
Dec 03 19:29:26 <FIQ> i do this bm backup, boot maemo, remove this POS, install that deb, then do what exactly with the pasted configuration file?
Dec 03 19:29:31 <kerio> r00t|home: it won't, actually
Dec 03 19:29:34 <kerio> cssu fixed that
Dec 03 19:29:37 <FIQ> i've actually done that
Dec 03 19:29:42 <FIQ> w/o an unbootable system
Dec 03 19:29:46 <r00t|home> FIQ: the file goes in /etc/event.d/ntpdate
Dec 03 19:29:47 <FIQ> however I heard it broke SIP
Dec 03 19:29:51 <FIQ> ...which I don't use
Dec 03 19:29:52 <kerio> FIQ: it used to break SIP
Dec 03 19:29:53 <r00t|home> FIQ: ah, yes, that
Dec 03 19:30:04 <FIQ> so essentially it affected me zero
Dec 03 19:30:16 <kerio> CSSU now "manually installs" the things in the metapackage
Dec 03 19:30:18 <FIQ> even though it probably broke SIP for me
Dec 03 19:30:20 <kerio> of course when you remove them, you remove them
Dec 03 19:30:28 <vi____> FIQ, you know linux right?
Dec 03 19:30:29 <kerio> FIQ: it didn't, if you installed cssu beforehand
Dec 03 19:30:42 <kerio> FIQ: use ntpd from busybox-power, it's easier
Dec 03 19:30:47 <FIQ> vi_: i'm confident with linux yes
Dec 03 19:30:55 <FIQ> kerio: hmm ok
Dec 03 19:30:55 <vi____> aah. then you will be fine!
Dec 03 19:31:00 <kerio> hell, just install an event file for ntpd
Dec 03 19:31:08 <kerio> it'll fix the time once you connect to the internet
Dec 03 19:31:12 <kerio> (maybe)
Dec 03 19:31:50 <ufa> I am trying to flash my n900. but the nokia download page does not seem to work :(
Dec 03 19:32:06 <FIQ> kerio: well, I'll most likely set the time manually on boot if i've no internet access :P
Dec 03 19:32:15 <FIQ> as I don't like n900 showing weird time
Dec 03 19:32:43 <FIQ> (not that manually will set it right on second, but in that case, +/-5min is better than +/-5h
Dec 03 19:32:45 <FIQ> )
Dec 03 19:32:57 <kerio> FIQ: i just don't see how it's slower to set it from the worldclock
Dec 03 19:33:06 <kerio> or from xterm
Dec 03 19:33:40 <vi____> or put a zenity dialogue in xsession.post 
Dec 03 19:33:41 <FIQ> there we go, bm done
Dec 03 19:34:29 <kerio> vi____: why?
Dec 03 19:34:39 <kerio> the system is booted at that point, every damage done by the date has been done already
Dec 03 19:35:18 <vi____> kerio, not the damage to my face.
Dec 03 19:35:31 <vi____> where I see it is 00:00
Dec 03 19:36:26 <FIQ> hm
Dec 03 19:36:33 <FIQ> the purge was semi-successful
Dec 03 19:36:44 <vi____> semi?
Dec 03 19:36:45 <FIQ> it didn't purge properly, as it failed to remove /var/lib/osso-startup-wizard/
Dec 03 19:36:49 <DocScrutinizer05> purge is nonsense
Dec 03 19:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't need to purge the packages to fix the initscript
Dec 03 19:37:13 <FIQ> should be safe to just remove the directory I guess
Dec 03 19:37:41 <DocScrutinizer05> neither is it warranted that purging will fix the initscript for you
Dec 03 19:37:43 <FIQ> (and the file within)
Dec 03 19:39:08 <vi____> FIQ, alternativley you could just comment out the starting of the osso-startup-wizard in the Xsession.d scripts.
Dec 03 19:39:21 <FIQ> oh you say that now... :p
Dec 03 19:39:31 <FIQ> i've already removed it
Dec 03 19:39:47 <FIQ> but well, as that line would just throw an error, I guess I can comment it out anyway
Dec 03 19:39:53 <vi____> It makes no difference.
Dec 03 19:40:15 <FIQ> so let's see here
Dec 03 19:40:30 <vi____> what line?
Dec 03 19:40:48 <FIQ> s/line/part/
Dec 03 19:41:05 <FIQ> Anyway
Dec 03 19:41:34 <FIQ> osso-startup-wizard removed, now to install busybox-power
Dec 03 19:42:01 <FIQ> and make ntpd autostart with the pasted script
Dec 03 19:43:46 <FIQ> http://pastebin.com/CCuMgLkX hm
Dec 03 19:45:03 <kerio> FIQ: we need some testing though
Dec 03 19:45:20 <kerio> boot with the time set to 2000 01 01 00 00 and then start busybox's ntpd
Dec 03 19:45:26 <FIQ> does busybox-power need a reboot..?
Dec 03 19:45:27 <kerio> see if the time is eventually fixed
Dec 03 19:45:30 <kerio> FIQ: no
Dec 03 19:45:54 <FIQ> well I started a new shell and it still reported old (vanilla) version of busybox
Dec 03 19:46:01 <FIQ> i'll see if I did something wrong
Dec 03 19:47:06 <FIQ> ah, guess I misread the startup text.. w/e
Dec 03 19:47:10 <kerio> are you sure there wasn't a -power? :)
Dec 03 19:47:11 <kerio> heh
Dec 03 19:47:53 <vi____> does anyone know of a irc room that is for C coding enthusiasts?
Dec 03 19:48:03 <kerio> ##c maybe
Dec 03 19:48:23 <FIQ> however there seems to be no ntpd..
Dec 03 19:48:26 <vi____> Cannot join ##c (You are banned).
Dec 03 19:49:11 <FIQ> "ntpd: not found.", and "help" (I don't use busybox normally but I think it echoes every known busybox command) doesn't mention it
Dec 03 19:49:15 <FIQ> vi_: grats
Dec 03 19:50:04 <FIQ> errr nvm I'm tired
Dec 03 19:50:32 <FIQ> busybox simply refused to give meaningful errors, that's all
Dec 03 19:52:19 <FIQ> http://pastebin.com/0TVGCH5d in /etc/event.d/ntpd is what I want, right?
Dec 03 19:52:44 <FIQ> did small modification to the pastebinned script earlier as it mentioned ntpdate instead of simply ntpd
Dec 03 19:53:02 <FIQ> @ vi_ 
Dec 03 19:53:13 <kerio> FIQ: ntpd is in sbin
Dec 03 19:53:29 <FIQ> yes
Dec 03 19:53:50 <kerio> FIQ: first, always specify full paths
Dec 03 19:54:02 <FIQ> well, the previous script didn't, but ok :)
Dec 03 19:54:16 <kerio> the previous script didn't use stuff in /usr/sbin i think
Dec 03 19:54:17 <kerio> anyway
Dec 03 19:54:43 <kerio> FIQ: use quotes around your tests
Dec 03 19:55:07 <kerio> FIQ: also easier, start ntpd on started hal or something like that as a daemon
Dec 03 19:55:12 <kerio> (tell it to not daemonize ofc)
Dec 03 19:56:03 <kerio> i mean, it's the network time protocol daemon
Dec 03 19:56:41 <FIQ> hm
Dec 03 19:57:02 <kerio> test if it actually adjusts the time, though
Dec 03 19:59:12 <FIQ> btw vi____: *__*!*@* <-- is the reason for your ban
Dec 03 19:59:26 <vi____> I do not get it??
Dec 03 19:59:34 <FIQ> @ ##c
Dec 03 19:59:39 <vi____> I cannot help it if people keep stealing my nick
Dec 03 19:59:53 <FIQ> well, just saying
Dec 03 20:00:18 <FIQ> kerio: sorry, but I don't follow "started hal" (mostly because I don't know what you mean with hal)
Dec 03 20:00:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<FIQ> oh you say that now... :p)) I said it a few minutes before
Dec 03 20:00:31 <OxFFFF> noted
Dec 03 20:00:33 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: guess I missed it
Dec 03 20:02:25 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: it's your e-peen
Dec 03 20:02:31 <DocScrutinizer05> *__*
Dec 03 20:02:49 <DocScrutinizer05> regex for +b
Dec 03 20:03:13 <OxFFFF> DocScrutinizer05, I am over here 0/
Dec 03 20:03:57 <OxFFFF> ugh.
Dec 03 20:04:14 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: lrn2nickserv
Dec 03 20:04:31 <OxFFFF> what is the C equivalent of fscanf?
Dec 03 20:04:38 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a nice useful command called GHOST
Dec 03 20:05:21 <tadzik> OxFFFF: uh, fscanf(3)?
Dec 03 20:05:56 <FIQ> hmmmmm
Dec 03 20:06:02 <DocScrutinizer05> /msg nickserv id vi_ <password>; /msg nickserv ghost vi_; /nick vi_
Dec 03 20:06:21 <FIQ> so what exactly does maemo do if you set it in y2k38-wrapping time
Dec 03 20:06:26 <FIQ> I suppose it.. wrap
Dec 03 20:06:35 <FIQ> but would be interesting to see how hildon stuff reacted to it
Dec 03 20:06:59 <OxFFFF> y2k bug!
Dec 03 20:07:08 <OxFFFF> Equinox fail!
Dec 03 20:07:10 <FIQ> y2k38 is an actual issue though, unlike y2k
Dec 03 20:07:28 <FIQ> which mainly failed visibly
Dec 03 20:07:47 <FIQ> and some minor fails here and there due to people insisting on storing it in a 2-digit number
Dec 03 20:08:08 <FIQ> storing years in 2-digit when you're at the end of a millenium isn't really long-term huh
Dec 03 20:08:43 <FIQ> hmmmmm
Dec 03 20:10:25 <FIQ> while I do have a ntpd running now that I started phone, it seems to not do much
Dec 03 20:10:58 <r00t|home> (which is why i prefer ntpdate ;) )
Dec 03 20:11:21 <FIQ> is there any actual differences?
Dec 03 20:11:35 <r00t|home> FIQ: note that the menubar clock widget will NOT immediately update when the time is set
Dec 03 20:11:36 <FIQ> apart from possibly command-line options and such
Dec 03 20:11:42 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: ntpd has a guard window, which disables time adjusts of >60s or sth
Dec 03 20:11:56 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: yeah I know about this one
Dec 03 20:12:04 <r00t|home> DocScrutinizer05: kerio already checked that that is not the case with busybox
Dec 03 20:12:05 <FIQ> (i think it's bigger than this though)
Dec 03 20:12:15 <OxFFFF> FIQ, clock will only update after you un/lock the screen/wait 30s.
Dec 03 20:12:27 <FIQ> well I've waited 3min now :P
Dec 03 20:12:33 <OxFFFF> then  is has failed!
Dec 03 20:12:35 <FIQ> and it ticks nicely on 00:0x
Dec 03 20:12:44 <FIQ> but ntpd appears in ps list..
Dec 03 20:12:44 <kerio> FIQ: ok, stop ntpd and restart it
Dec 03 20:12:48 <FIQ> so it's definitely started
Dec 03 20:12:50 <FIQ> kerio: i'll try
Dec 03 20:12:50 <kerio> it did work for me, i swear! :(
Dec 03 20:13:09 <kerio> to be fair i only checked for a handful of hours of offset
Dec 03 20:13:13 <kerio> perhaps 12 years is too much
Dec 03 20:13:27 <FIQ> i changed in gui
Dec 03 20:13:34 <FIQ> so i could only offset it 3 years :(
Dec 03 20:13:48 <kerio> FIQ: change it with date, then restart ntpd
Dec 03 20:14:27 <FIQ> i'll try to start ntpd from commandline w/o changing with date first
Dec 03 20:14:37 <FIQ> to prevent ambiguos error reasons
Dec 03 20:14:41 <kerio> no, change the date and then start ntpd
Dec 03 20:14:45 <FIQ> ok..
Dec 03 20:17:41 <FIQ> huh
Dec 03 20:17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: uhuh
Dec 03 20:18:07 <FIQ> kerio: ntpd only supports -dSs
Dec 03 20:18:25 <kerio> FIQ: are you sure you don't have openntpd installed?
Dec 03 20:18:26 <kerio> :)
Dec 03 20:18:28 <FIQ> "usage: ntpd [-dSs] [-f file]
Dec 03 20:18:32 <FIQ> kerio: maaaaybe
Dec 03 20:18:43 <kerio> that's why i specified "ntpd from busybox-power"
Dec 03 20:18:50 <kerio> ok actually i didn't specify it now
Dec 03 20:18:54 <DocScrutinizer05> RTFM
Dec 03 20:18:59 <FIQ> yeah i know
Dec 03 20:19:07 <FIQ> i just forgot that I also had openntpd
Dec 03 20:19:15 <kerio> FIQ: btw you have to reinstall busybox-power after removing openntpd
Dec 03 20:19:24 <kerio> it's the easiest way to recreate all the possible symlinks
Dec 03 20:19:42 <FIQ> because they both have /usr/sbin/ntpd..
Dec 03 20:19:50 <FIQ> shouldn't they conflict?
Dec 03 20:20:00 <kerio> busybox-power creates its symlinks in postinst, if they don't exist already
Dec 03 20:20:03 <FIQ> (the packages, that is)
Dec 03 20:20:33 <kerio> and it removes the symlinks in prerm, only if they are symlinks to busybox
Dec 03 20:20:49 <kerio> FIQ: nope, busybox-power will never overwrite installed stuff
Dec 03 20:21:00 <kerio> and i think that dpkg will just silently remove the symlink and install its files
Dec 03 20:21:06 <FIQ> it just let other stuff take priority
Dec 03 20:21:09 <FIQ> I suppose?
Dec 03 20:21:10 <DocScrutinizer05> get ntpdate, add `sleep 30; ntpdate && hwclock --systohc` zo ifup
Dec 03 20:21:38 <FIQ> kerio: now I got actual usage info
Dec 03 20:21:48 <FIQ> let's try to just reboot phone
Dec 03 20:21:52 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: ntpd -dnq -p europe.pool.ntp.org && hwclock --systohc
Dec 03 20:21:53 <FIQ> to see if ntpd does stuff right this time
Dec 03 20:22:04 <kerio> FIQ: how are you resetting the clock, btw?
Dec 03 20:22:16 <FIQ> you mean normally?
Dec 03 20:22:17 <OxFFFF> I liked kerio solution, put the line in ifup.post
Dec 03 20:22:26 <FIQ> i switch batteries
Dec 03 20:22:41 <kerio> heh, silly people with a non-working backup battery
Dec 03 20:22:49 <FIQ> meh
Dec 03 20:23:30 <FIQ> reboot time
Dec 03 20:23:48 <r00t|home> kerio: silly nokia installing backup batteries that die that early
Dec 03 20:24:10 <FIQ> kerio: I switch batteries as fast as possible
Dec 03 20:24:16 <FIQ> having the other one ready in <1s
Dec 03 20:24:21 <FIQ> sometimes I don't get reset clock
Dec 03 20:24:24 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|home: silly hitachi that bulds such crap
Dec 03 20:24:25 <FIQ> if I'm lucky...
Dec 03 20:24:28 <DocScrutinizer05> seiko?
Dec 03 20:24:39 <kerio> FIQ: on my old n900, i used to just lift the old one a bit, start sliding the new one under, then remove the old one and put the new one in
Dec 03 20:24:48 <FIQ> haha
Dec 03 20:24:51 <kerio> less than half a second, never had the clock reset :D
Dec 03 20:24:54 <FIQ> that's what I'm doing, precisely
Dec 03 20:24:58 <r00t|home> DocScrutinizer05: are there any reports of people successfully replacing the backup battery? (somebody suggested to ask you)
Dec 03 20:25:01 <FIQ> it *usually* works
Dec 03 20:25:07 <FIQ> sometimes I'm too slow
Dec 03 20:25:11 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|home: yes, some users did
Dec 03 20:25:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bupbat
Dec 03 20:25:36 <infobot> bupbat is, like, http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months
Dec 03 20:25:42 <FIQ> uh
Dec 03 20:25:44 <FIQ> ...
Dec 03 20:25:55 <FIQ> kerio: Now ntpd just did something confusing
Dec 03 20:26:05 <kerio> haha
Dec 03 20:26:06 <FIQ> before, I had time set at 2000-01-01 00:0x
Dec 03 20:26:13 <FIQ> Now it's at 1970-01-01 01:01
Dec 03 20:26:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ntpd is not the right thing for mobile devices with intermittent connectivity
Dec 03 20:26:37 <FIQ> i.e. seconds after unix epoch
Dec 03 20:26:42 <kerio> i think it's ossosuw that sets it to 2000
Dec 03 20:27:20 <FIQ> kerio: basically it did something, but it didn't do it right
Dec 03 20:27:23 <OxFFFF> kerio, surely RTC chip resets to 2000
Dec 03 20:27:31 <FIQ> also
Dec 03 20:27:33 <DocScrutinizer05> and usually ntpd config has localhost (== cmos clock) as lower prio startum
Dec 03 20:27:40 <DocScrutinizer05> stratum*
Dec 03 20:27:41 <kerio> OxFFFF: your username deeply upsets me
Dec 03 20:27:42 <FIQ> when battery dies, time's set at 2009-01-01 06:00 for me
Dec 03 20:27:50 <kerio> FIQ: that's definetely osso-startup-wizard
Dec 03 20:27:52 <FIQ> (if that's what you're discussing)
Dec 03 20:28:10 <FIQ> kerio: ah
Dec 03 20:28:15 <FIQ> well, dunno what happens *now*
Dec 03 20:28:18 <FIQ> now that I don't have it
Dec 03 20:28:19 <r00t|home> DocScrutinizer05: some docs on doing the replacment aswell?
Dec 03 20:28:35 <DocScrutinizer05> unsolder old part, solder new one
Dec 03 20:29:03 <r00t|home> <kerio> open n900, remove battery, put in new battery, ???
Dec 03 20:29:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggest either using two soldering irons in parallel, or shove some paper or tin/alu foil under the contact you are just desoldering
Dec 03 20:29:40 <OxFFFF> r00t|home, replace with double layer electrolytic supercap.
Dec 03 20:30:02 <OxFFFF> kerio, I am vi
Dec 03 20:30:21 <OxFFFF> they come in 0.07uF
Dec 03 20:30:31 <OxFFFF> But most are obsolete.
Dec 03 20:30:33 <kerio> OxFFFF: your username still upsets me
Dec 03 20:30:37 <r00t|home> i just read that as: 0xFFFFuF
Dec 03 20:30:39 <OxFFFF> EAT IT
Dec 03 20:30:39 <DocScrutinizer05> me too
Dec 03 20:30:50 <kerio> OxFFFF: IT'S NOT A REAL HEX NUMBER
Dec 03 20:31:12 <kerio> IT'S NOT A REAL ZERO
Dec 03 20:31:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and capslock upsets me too
Dec 03 20:31:29 <kerio> indeed!
Dec 03 20:31:30 <OxFFFF> I am not allowed a zero.
Dec 03 20:31:40 <OxFFFF> At the start of the nick.
Dec 03 20:31:41 <kerio> but it's not capslock, i was holding shift
Dec 03 20:31:46 <kerio> i disabled capslock
Dec 03 20:31:55 <FIQ> hmm
Dec 03 20:32:02 <FIQ> still doesn't work
Dec 03 20:32:08 * OxDEADBEEF ?
Dec 03 20:32:11 <r00t|home> DocScrutinizer05: the mouser catalog url on infobot is broken (redirects to /catalogrequest/catalog.aspx)
Dec 03 20:32:20 <FIQ> (also, battery out, battery in = time is 2000-01-01 01:00 for me)
Dec 03 20:32:32 <FIQ> probably as I'm on cet
Dec 03 20:32:37 <OxDEADBEEF> kerio, is this better?
Dec 03 20:32:41 <DocScrutinizer05> r00t|home: meh, you're welcome to find a better not outdated URL
Dec 03 20:33:02 <r00t|home> DocScrutinizer05: i can't without knowing what the content of the original url was
Dec 03 20:33:06 <FIQ> OxABADBABE @ OxDEADBEEF 
Dec 03 20:33:56 <DocScrutinizer05> http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/phttp://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5Ras414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R
Dec 03 20:34:14 <kerio> vi, wat r u doin
Dec 03 20:34:25 <OxBEEFBEEF> I am trying to find a new name
Dec 03 20:34:29 <kerio> vi, stahp
Dec 03 20:34:58 <FIQ> kerio: ok, so the problem lies in autostart thingy
Dec 03 20:35:04 <FIQ> because I tried to start ntpd manually
Dec 03 20:35:06 <FIQ> worked just fine
Dec 03 20:35:31 <FIQ> (also, the 1970 nonsense wasn't caused by ntpd apparently, I guess that I just produced a malformed dateset)
Dec 03 20:36:18 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: the problem lies in ntpd, it doesn't work on machines with intermittent connectivity
Dec 03 20:36:57 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: hmm, i wonder if we can abuse upstart's respawn to launch the appropriate magic command every x time
Dec 03 20:37:04 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: so are you suggesting me to download that package that anyone suggested from the beginning?
Dec 03 20:37:12 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: ntpd in daemon (11min) mode is BS for whacky internet
Dec 03 20:37:17 <FIQ> (a version of ntpdate)
Dec 03 20:37:32 <kerio> FIQ: ntpdate or ntpd oneshot is the same
Dec 03 20:37:35 <FIQ> [21:25:51] <r00t|home> <r00t|home> wget http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc/nokia770/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/system-tools/ntpdate_4.2.0a+stable-9_armel.deb
Dec 03 20:37:36 <FIQ> i.e. this
Dec 03 20:37:46 <kerio> doc's objection lies in ntpd in daemon mode
Dec 03 20:37:47 <vi_> ntp is suitable for one-shot mode.
Dec 03 20:38:04 <kerio> anyway, my phone booted with osso-startup-wizard purged
Dec 03 20:38:14 * gomiam cries... I'm unable to bring my n900 back to life.
Dec 03 20:38:24 <gomiam> ok, I'm not really crying, but it is annoying
Dec 03 20:38:33 <FIQ> gomiam: what happened?
Dec 03 20:38:36 <DocScrutinizer05> add `sleep 30; ntpdate && hwclock --systohc` zo ifup
Dec 03 20:38:37 <tadzik> consider describing your problem :)
Dec 03 20:38:37 <vi_> have you flashed it?
Dec 03 20:38:49 <kerio> gomiam: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mck6jbduSs1r96x1xo1_400.png
Dec 03 20:38:50 <FIQ> n900 can be resurrected (assuing no hw problem) with usb
Dec 03 20:39:05 <DocScrutinizer05> where ntpdate == ntpd -d iirc
Dec 03 20:39:14 <DocScrutinizer05> for *some* flavours of ntpd
Dec 03 20:39:14 <gomiam> well, I bought this second hand N900 and found out it dropped the GSM card connection randomly.
Dec 03 20:39:19 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: ntpd -q
Dec 03 20:39:26 <kerio> gomiam: ouch
Dec 03 20:39:29 <DocScrutinizer05> or that
Dec 03 20:39:31 <FIQ> ntpd -d is daemonization IIRC
Dec 03 20:39:36 <FIQ> -q is just "set time and quit"
Dec 03 20:39:42 <kerio> FIQ: it's actually "don't daemonize" afaik
Dec 03 20:39:50 <FIQ> kerio: oh, so the opposite :D
Dec 03 20:40:02 <kerio> gomiam: it could be a hardware problem
Dec 03 20:40:08 <kerio> it's a common fault, and there's no known fix :(
Dec 03 20:40:21 <kerio> gomiam: have you tried using a different, *new* sim?
Dec 03 20:40:29 <kerio> checking the contacts?
Dec 03 20:40:32 <kerio> reflashing?
Dec 03 20:40:35 <DocScrutinizer05> fsckng ntpd is missing ntpdate's option to just *display* nettime
Dec 03 20:40:36 <gomiam> so I decided to reflash it. I downloaded everything, ran flasher-3.5 (kind of) successfully from Windows 7 64 bit... and that's all she wrote.
Dec 03 20:40:46 <vi_> pentium 4 laptop with tiny battery==utter bs.
Dec 03 20:40:50 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: ntpd -w
Dec 03 20:41:04 <kerio> -w	Do not set time (only query peers), implies -n (do not daemonize)
Dec 03 20:41:09 <vi_> gomiam, Step 1. Dont use win 7.  An update has rendered it broken.
Dec 03 20:41:10 <FIQ> gomiam: i had the issue you had earlier, turned out it was my sim (it was ~5 years old)
Dec 03 20:41:13 <gomiam> I have just tried the back-to-back root/emmc flash method to see if it would work from Knoppix 32 bits
Dec 03 20:41:20 <DocScrutinizer05> pfff that's 'new'
Dec 03 20:41:22 <vi_> gomiam, Step 2.  Use linux.
Dec 03 20:41:29 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: well it failed anyway
Dec 03 20:41:34 <gomiam> and... it still gets in an endless boot loop.
Dec 03 20:41:37 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: "stupid developers fixed my problem"
Dec 03 20:41:43 <kerio> gomiam: you flashed it incorrectly
Dec 03 20:41:46 <kerio> or it has a serious hw problem
Dec 03 20:41:54 <FIQ> went to a reseller of my operator, requested replacement, got one that was due to activate in ½h, worked flawlessy
Dec 03 20:41:57 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: eh?
Dec 03 20:42:02 <vi_> gomiam, use linux
Dec 03 20:42:09 <FIQ> unusually seamless "repair" for me
Dec 03 20:42:18 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: what's the problem if it's a new thing?
Dec 03 20:42:24 * fil notes that wifieye no longer shows me any stations, despite iwlist seeing stations -- is this a power kernel thing, or is it just coincidence that I recently installed that?
Dec 03 20:42:26 <vi_> we should really roll an n900 'flashing' distro.
Dec 03 20:42:30 <DocScrutinizer05> that it's not an old thing
Dec 03 20:42:37 <gomiam> I get this message when trying to flash the root (among other things):   ERROR: EP0 STALL sent
Dec 03 20:42:40 <DocScrutinizer05> what a stupid question
Dec 03 20:42:45 <vi_> Base it on something like gparted, include the pr1.3 firmware files.
Dec 03 20:42:59 <kerio> vi_: NO REDIST!1!1
Dec 03 20:43:01 <gomiam> hold on, I'm putting it all in pastebin so you can read it yourselves if you wish
Dec 03 20:43:11 <vi_> kerio, IDGAF about nokia license.
Dec 03 20:43:14 <kerio> it's in the eula that you have to mindlessly click through to download the fiasco images
Dec 03 20:43:17 <DocScrutinizer05> the obvious problem is that my objection been correct for the last ~5 years
Dec 03 20:43:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: but it's not correct anymore! :D
Dec 03 20:43:37 <DocScrutinizer05> so what?
Dec 03 20:43:46 <DocScrutinizer05> the devels still are morons
Dec 03 20:43:48 <gomiam> http://pastebin.ca/2289114
Dec 03 20:44:18 <Sicelo> fil: wfm.
Dec 03 20:44:29 <gomiam> as you can see, the rootfs flash proceeds correctly... until it tries to flash cmt-mcusw
Dec 03 20:44:36 <fil> vi_: would it be worth knocking up some udebs so that one could do that from debian-installer?
Dec 03 20:44:50 <kerio> gomiam: signs point to hardware fault, sadly
Dec 03 20:44:54 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: cmt hw defect
Dec 03 20:45:07 <kerio> unfixable unless you have a reflow station, afaik
Dec 03 20:45:15 <FIQ> I couldn't follow kerio's advice on fixing the shellscript completely, but http://pastebin.com/BF8KUty8 is what I have atm
Dec 03 20:45:18 <gomiam> I read about someone using a heat gun to bring it back to life... is that even possible?
Dec 03 20:45:23 <fil> oh typical -- stupid proprietary license pain
Dec 03 20:45:32 <FIQ> something is most likely rendurant
Dec 03 20:45:37 <kerio> gomiam: are you an EE?
Dec 03 20:45:40 <FIQ> i.e. line 7 part
Dec 03 20:45:41 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: yes, possible. with extreme luck and much experience
Dec 03 20:45:52 <gomiam> kerio: no, but I have access to a few :)
Dec 03 20:46:08 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: also see what kerio posted
Dec 03 20:46:22 <FIQ> someone willing to help me fix that ^, as i'm pretty bad on commandline-fu? :p
Dec 03 20:46:26 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: yup, checking on reflow stations right now 
Dec 03 20:46:37 <FIQ> brb
Dec 03 20:46:39 <DocScrutinizer05> err wut? for buying one?
Dec 03 20:47:05 <vi_> just slap it in your oven at 220 degrees for 10 minutes.
Dec 03 20:47:10 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll get ~20 new N900 for that money
Dec 03 20:47:11 <vi_> Job done.
Dec 03 20:47:13 <kerio> vi_: stahp
Dec 03 20:47:25 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: stop telling BS
Dec 03 20:47:26 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: hopefully he's checking his accessible engineers
Dec 03 20:47:36 <gomiam> kerio: mostly :)
Dec 03 20:48:29 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: check reflow profile allowed for most of the components. also check which components are hand assembled and not reflow-able at all
Dec 03 20:48:48 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: and consider this is a doublesided PCB
Dec 03 20:49:27 <DocScrutinizer05> with a little luck your upper side looks brilliant after that procedure, while the bottom side is suddebly empty
Dec 03 20:49:31 <DocScrutinizer05> X-P
Dec 03 20:49:50 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: just put the correct side in the oven, duh
Dec 03 20:49:53 <vi_> yeah, that would suck.
Dec 03 20:50:06 <gomiam> kerio: LOL
Dec 03 20:50:12 <vi_> put a sacrificial n900 underneath duh.
Dec 03 20:50:54 <gomiam> it seems air soldering rework stations are quite cheap... I need to ask around and see if someon I know has something like that
Dec 03 20:51:16 <gomiam> in any case, getting back to the flash procedure
Dec 03 20:51:35 <vi_> gomiam, USE LINUX
Dec 03 20:51:37 <gomiam> is it normal that the rootfs flash procedure finishes (even if it complains about cmt)
Dec 03 20:51:46 <vi_> gomiam, The best shareware OS available.
Dec 03 20:51:55 <kerio> gomiam: what's not normal is that it doesn't work afterwards
Dec 03 20:52:02 <kerio> even with a nonworking cmt
Dec 03 20:52:02 <gomiam> vi_: I'm on Linux right now, and I'm using it for reflashing... unsuccessfully.
Dec 03 20:52:07 <vi_> aah
Dec 03 20:52:16 <gomiam> kerio: the real problem comes when I try to flash the eMMC
Dec 03 20:52:18 <vi_> There is a flag in flasher that lets you ignore CMTcheck.
Dec 03 20:52:34 <vi_> Also, you can tell flasher to ONLY flash rootfs image.
Dec 03 20:52:45 <kerio> gomiam: it doesn't really appear to be finished
Dec 03 20:53:03 <vi_> So if you have the stock kernel flashed you can simply --flash-only=rootfs.img
Dec 03 20:53:07 <vi_> or something
Dec 03 20:53:27 <kerio> yep, --cmt-no-verify
Dec 03 20:53:49 <kerio> gomiam: make sure you don't boot inbetween the two images
Dec 03 20:53:52 <gomiam> when I start flashing the eMMC (I'm going to try with --cmt-no-verify in a jiffy) 
Dec 03 20:54:13 <gomiam> the phone reboots automatically and disappears from the USB devices... at least as far as flasher is concerned
Dec 03 20:54:22 <vi_> when flashing emmc image, you do not need cmt no verify
Dec 03 20:54:37 <gomiam> hold on a few seconds while I try to flash the rootfs with --cmr-no-verify
Dec 03 20:54:45 <gomiam> erm, cmt
Dec 03 20:54:51 <vi_> gomiam, You are doing flasher3.5 -F <YOURFLASHFILEHERE> -f
Dec 03 20:54:54 <vi_> right...
Dec 03 20:54:56 <vi_> no -R
Dec 03 20:54:57 <gomiam> vi_: exactly
Dec 03 20:55:01 <vi_> good
Dec 03 20:55:14 <DocScrutinizer05> irrelevant
Dec 03 20:55:24 <gomiam> yes, I'm afraid that had to do with my original problem. I probably added a -R in the beginning when I shouldn't
Dec 03 20:55:30 <gomiam> anyway, testing this new option
Dec 03 20:55:30 <kerio> remove battery, enter commandline to flash COMBINED without -R, hold u, put battery in, wait for flash to finish, remove battery, enter commandline to flash VANILLA without -R, hold U, put battery in, wait for finish, remove battery, enter commandline to flash COMBINED without -R, hold U, put battery in, wait for finish, remove battery, unplug everything, put battery in, turn on
Dec 03 20:56:04 <kerio> and use --cmt-no-verify
Dec 03 20:56:14 <gomiam> kerio: I have tried that unsuccessfully too. Then again, I may have tried it incorrectly, so I will try again
Dec 03 20:56:15 <kerio> but accept the fact that the phone part of your n900 is fucked
Dec 03 20:56:15 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Dec 03 20:56:25 <gomiam> thanks everyone for your help so far
Dec 03 20:56:44 <kerio> and agps will also be fucked, so expect fix times in the order of minutes
Dec 03 20:56:56 <DocScrutinizer05> gps is borked
Dec 03 20:57:12 <DocScrutinizer05> TTFF -><infinite>
Dec 03 20:57:51 <DocScrutinizer05> if cmt is deaf for flashing, it won't reply as usual to GPS inquiries
Dec 03 20:58:07 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: hm
Dec 03 20:58:09 <DocScrutinizer05> GPS chip is connected to BB5
Dec 03 20:58:16 <kerio> can't you disable agps?
Dec 03 20:58:19 <kerio> like, from the GUI
Dec 03 20:58:26 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, so what?
Dec 03 20:58:37 <kerio> oh, it'll still check, i see
Dec 03 20:58:51 <DocScrutinizer05> the GPS chip is wired to BB5
Dec 03 20:58:58 <kerio> hmm... doesn't stopping sscd do the same thing as a borked cmt, pretty much?
Dec 03 20:59:35 <DocScrutinizer05> what got supplementary service code daemon to do with it?
Dec 03 21:00:07 <kerio> it makes a cute "no sim" icon! :3
Dec 03 21:00:44 <DocScrutinizer05> osso-paint can do that too
Dec 03 21:00:48 <gomiam> Ok, battery off, start up rootfs flash with --cmt-no-verify (and no -R), complains and ends.
Dec 03 21:00:57 <kerio> hm
Dec 03 21:00:58 <kerio> :(
Dec 03 21:01:36 <gomiam> battery off again, I start up eMMC flash, and it recognizes the device for a moment before it starts booting up and gets "lost"
Dec 03 21:01:41 <gomiam> http://pastebin.ca/2289123 for more details
Dec 03 21:01:44 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed :(, for fuzzy problem description
Dec 03 21:01:56 <kerio> gomiam: are you sure you're still holding u?
Dec 03 21:02:02 <gomiam> kerio: certainly
Dec 03 21:02:09 <DocScrutinizer05> battery empty
Dec 03 21:02:11 <kerio> anyway, you won't be able to flash VANILLA without a working rootfs
Dec 03 21:02:53 <vi_> Invalid argument for 'cmt'
Dec 03 21:02:55 <gomiam> kerio: ouch. And if I read the instructions correctly, I can't get a working rootfs without a proper VANILLA.
Dec 03 21:03:06 <vi_> are you sure you got the cmt-no verify correct?
Dec 03 21:03:08 <DocScrutinizer05> meh! 
Dec 03 21:03:08 <ShadowJK> fil; wifieye randomly does one or all of the following: stops finding wlans, jacks up power consumption, leaves itself running and constantly scanning for wifi networks even if main window is closed
Dec 03 21:03:10 <FIQ> gomiam: correct
Dec 03 21:03:10 <kerio> gomiam: nah, you don't need *that* working of a rootfs :)
Dec 03 21:03:10 <DocScrutinizer05> Bootloader error log follows:
Dec 03 21:03:12 <DocScrutinizer05>   ERROR: Invalid argument for 'cmt'
Dec 03 21:03:13 <FIQ> but that's no problem
Dec 03 21:03:28 <kerio> gomiam: basically, you need to flash COMBINED before VANILLA to be sure
Dec 03 21:03:30 <FIQ> you just flash rootfs, make unbootable n900, flash emmc, then rootfs again
Dec 03 21:03:40 <vi_> ffs
Dec 03 21:03:52 <gomiam> FIQ: "make unbootable n900"... please elaborate your thoughts
Dec 03 21:03:54 <vi_> --flash-only=rootfs.img or sometghing.
Dec 03 21:03:59 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: incorrect
Dec 03 21:04:04 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: hmm ok
Dec 03 21:04:05 <kerio> vi_: --flash-only=rootfs actually
Dec 03 21:04:16 <vi_> gomiam, ^ what he said
Dec 03 21:04:18 <FIQ> oh well, i'm tired
Dec 03 21:04:23 <gomiam> testing with --flash-only=rootfs
Dec 03 21:04:27 <fil> ShadowJK: ah, ok -- ta
Dec 03 21:04:36 <kerio> gomiam: you can do it separately with nolo, kernel, initfs, rootfs, cmt
Dec 03 21:04:40 <kerio> of course cmt will fail for you
Dec 03 21:04:49 <kerio> i'm not sure if you can tell it to flash more things at once
Dec 03 21:05:01 <vi_> assuming you had stock kernel installed, that should work.
Dec 03 21:05:13 <kerio> gomiam: when flashing from COMBINED, you don't have to reboot between each thing
Dec 03 21:05:47 <gomiam> kerio: I'm not. I'm removing the battery once the program gets back to command line
Dec 03 21:06:00 <vi_> did it work
Dec 03 21:06:01 <kerio> i mean when using --flash-only
Dec 03 21:06:38 <gomiam> --flash-only=rootfs worked.
Dec 03 21:06:46 <gomiam> at least it didn't complain
Dec 03 21:06:48 <kerio> gomiam: do it for kernel too
Dec 03 21:06:53 <gomiam> proceeding
Dec 03 21:07:00 * ShadowJK would think just flashing rootfs makes bootable N900 as long as emmc partitions aren't in any half-broken state
Dec 03 21:07:02 <kerio> nolo has been flashed successfully, initfs isn't needed, cmt won't work for you
Dec 03 21:07:04 <DocScrutinizer05> then do eMMC
Dec 03 21:07:11 <kerio> ShadowJK: in theory, yes :)
Dec 03 21:07:16 <gomiam> flashing correct
Dec 03 21:07:21 <gomiam> proceeding to eMMC
Dec 03 21:07:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: if he's careful about not even half booting in the middle, he doesn't need to flash rootfs again, right?
Dec 03 21:07:37 <ShadowJK> right
Dec 03 21:07:39 <DocScrutinizer05> right
Dec 03 21:07:48 <gomiam> should I remove the battery again before flashing eMMC?
Dec 03 21:07:53 <fil> is there any way of discovering what wifieye is upset about?  (do errors get sent anywhere useful, like .xsession-errors, say?)
Dec 03 21:08:18 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: try without, if it doesn't work, remove battery
Dec 03 21:08:32 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: thanks. Starting eMMC flash run...
Dec 03 21:08:33 <ShadowJK> The constraint is: never-booted rootfs must exist after emmc has been flashed
Dec 03 21:08:36 <FIQ> gomiam: at least you have a working USB...
Dec 03 21:09:05 <gomiam> flashing proceeds! Yay! Let's see how it ends :)
Dec 03 21:09:10 <FIQ> nice :)
Dec 03 21:09:31 <FIQ> gomiam: did the device boot before eMMC flash and after rootfs flash?
Dec 03 21:09:43 <FIQ> (every kind of boot counts)
Dec 03 21:09:48 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: going back to the gps problem - shouldn't it be the same as a missing SIM?
Dec 03 21:10:00 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: meh, if device doesn't boot, just reflash rootfs again
Dec 03 21:10:03 <kerio> ie it has no agps but it eventually gets a fix?
Dec 03 21:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: no
Dec 03 21:10:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the gps chip is attached to cmt BB5
Dec 03 21:10:52 <DocScrutinizer05> damn!
Dec 03 21:10:55 <gomiam> FIQ: nope. When I flashed only rootfs and kernel it kept waiting, and when I started eMMC flashing it booted, but it is supposed to do that, I guess, because this time the VANILLA flash finished successfully from flasher's POV
Dec 03 21:11:14 <gomiam> Now I should remove the battery and see if it starts, right?
Dec 03 21:11:21 <kerio> gomiam: yep
Dec 03 21:11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> if BB5 is zombie state, how would it proxy GPS info
Dec 03 21:11:26 <FIQ> gomiam: yes
Dec 03 21:11:27 <gomiam> proceeding.
Dec 03 21:11:29 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: oic
Dec 03 21:11:35 <kerio> well, it's a shame :(
Dec 03 21:11:46 <fil> oh, I see -- it's spewing python errors
Dec 03 21:11:59 <FIQ> also is there a way to confirm broken gps?
Dec 03 21:12:10 <kerio> FIQ: go outside, gpsrecorder or gpsjinni
Dec 03 21:12:12 <FIQ> mine has stalled on "waiting" infinite time since uh
Dec 03 21:12:21 <FIQ> a while ago
Dec 03 21:12:29 <FIQ> (~a year)
Dec 03 21:12:32 <gomiam> it gets to the dots running right and left...
Dec 03 21:12:54 <DocScrutinizer05> wait!
Dec 03 21:13:01 <DocScrutinizer05> wait some more!
Dec 03 21:13:02 <FIQ> gomiam: it's rather slow first boot
Dec 03 21:13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> wait....!
Dec 03 21:13:12 <FIQ> very slow tbh, I even though it got stuck the first time
Dec 03 21:13:38 <FIQ> but then I forgot about the phone and started a game, and before i got to start it proper, it was done :p
Dec 03 21:13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> you might want to hook up fastcharger right now
Dec 03 21:13:56 <FIQ> btw
Dec 03 21:14:01 <gomiam> I get the telephony functions disabled message which is encouraging
Dec 03 21:14:06 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: what happens if there's a power outage on first boot?
Dec 03 21:14:13 <kerio> FIQ: madness
Dec 03 21:14:14 <DocScrutinizer05> undefined
Dec 03 21:14:26 <DocScrutinizer05> mess
Dec 03 21:14:41 * gomiam keeps waiting patiently for MAemo to get its act together...
Dec 03 21:14:43 <FIQ> it would be slightly frustrating for me if I got that after successfully reflashing recently...
Dec 03 21:15:05 <kerio> afaik there's *something* regarding graceful failure during updates
Dec 03 21:15:08 <FIQ> like "grats, you did it, only took an hour! now do it again!"
Dec 03 21:15:18 <kerio> not sure what happens during firstboot though
Dec 03 21:15:53 <gomiam> while waiting, a small offtopic question: have you ever dealt with an Always Innovating Smart Book?
Dec 03 21:16:23 <gomiam> (this MID device you could pop into a screen to turn it into a pad, which you could slot into a keyboard to turn it into a netbook?
Dec 03 21:16:28 <kerio> gomiam: looks overly complicated
Dec 03 21:16:58 <gomiam> kerio: it does at that, but it also had four Linux distros from start :)
Dec 03 21:17:04 <kerio> neat
Dec 03 21:17:23 <FIQ> I have not
Dec 03 21:17:31 <gomiam> I'm asking because the company stopped selling them and they won't answer to any queries about remaining stock 
Dec 03 21:17:39 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: you attached fastcharger?
Dec 03 21:17:47 <FIQ> but seeing it reminds me of asus transformer
Dec 03 21:18:04 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: no. I just have this battery that I charged before starting all this.
Dec 03 21:18:13 <FIQ> which I'm considering getting, but haven't yet
Dec 03 21:18:41 <kerio> gomiam: attach it, just to be sure :)
Dec 03 21:18:44 <gomiam> FIQ: actually, the Asus Transformer reminds me of this thing... but less flexible. Always Innovating's product was on the market before Asus' one, anyway
Dec 03 21:18:48 <gomiam> kerio: WILCO
Dec 03 21:19:08 <DocScrutinizer05> btw firstboot should be done with no PC attached
Dec 03 21:19:20 <FIQ> i don't see the point in pads, sure they have some adventages, but it feels a bit too nisched
Dec 03 21:19:25 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: why, what happens otherwise? :o
Dec 03 21:19:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ass rage mode would possibly interfere
Dec 03 21:19:35 <FIQ> transformer combines netbook and pad nicely, which made me consider it
Dec 03 21:19:47 <FIQ> would rather get one that came with a better os though..
Dec 03 21:19:58 <gomiam> aaaand... it plays the Nokia startup tune!
Dec 03 21:19:59 <DocScrutinizer05> and generally it introduces unneeded complexity and points of failure
Dec 03 21:20:09 <kerio> FIQ: i don't get this fixation with tablets, really
Dec 03 21:20:16 * gomiam does little victory dance... and the neighbours below complain.
Dec 03 21:20:23 <kerio> gomiam: yay ^_^
Dec 03 21:20:27 <FIQ> kerio: I don't get the hype of pads at all
Dec 03 21:20:44 <kerio> heh, we don't really have to tell gomiam to uninstall cherry ASAP
Dec 03 21:20:44 <FIQ> but I can see they be decent in some situations.. but they're few
Dec 03 21:20:55 <FIQ> haha :P
Dec 03 21:21:06 <gomiam> ok, setting options and checking but, for the time being, THANKS A LOT
Dec 03 21:21:14 <kerio> YOU'RE WELCOME
Dec 03 21:21:36 <gomiam> no, I'm gomiam :P
Dec 03 21:21:38 <FIQ> (gomiam: fyi, cherry is my-nokia thing, which is obligatory premium SMS giving "support")
Dec 03 21:21:42 <FIQ> in case you wondered
Dec 03 21:22:04 <gomiam> I will ask around to see if someone has a new SIM card I can play around with
Dec 03 21:22:13 <FIQ> hmm
Dec 03 21:22:17 <FIQ> well
Dec 03 21:22:18 <kerio> gomiam: forget about it, your cmt is toast
Dec 03 21:22:25 <FIQ> if SIM card was the issue, then cmt would flash fine
Dec 03 21:22:28 <kerio> not being able to flash cmt is *the* telltale sign
Dec 03 21:22:33 <kerio> dammit FIQ
Dec 03 21:22:33 <FIQ> yeah
Dec 03 21:22:34 <gomiam> ouch...
Dec 03 21:22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> we seen cmt "segfault" on fsckdup SIM
Dec 03 21:22:51 <FIQ> gomiam: enjoy your upgraded N810, pretty much :|
Dec 03 21:23:04 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: then, sim removal should work
Dec 03 21:23:06 <FIQ> no?
Dec 03 21:23:09 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Dec 03 21:23:31 <gomiam> FIQ: will do XD at least it lets me browse some webpages that bork on my N800 (slashdot, I'm looking at you)
Dec 03 21:23:33 <kerio> and it would flash nicely
Dec 03 21:23:36 <DocScrutinizer05> so if gomiam has no SIM inserted right now, he got a defect cmt
Dec 03 21:23:44 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise it's worth removing SIM
Dec 03 21:23:49 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: no SIM right now, correct.
Dec 03 21:23:59 <DocScrutinizer05> then sorry, dude
Dec 03 21:24:00 <FIQ> then cmt = defect
Dec 03 21:24:14 <FIQ> (not literally, mind you)
Dec 03 21:24:20 <DocScrutinizer05> unless....
Dec 03 21:24:21 <gomiam> tsch... I will ask around and see if someone manages to "resolder" it
Dec 03 21:24:30 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: ?
Dec 03 21:24:41 <DocScrutinizer05> please check your OS version, in settings "about product"
Dec 03 21:24:48 <gomiam> chekcing
Dec 03 21:25:10 <gomiam> 20.2010.36-2
Dec 03 21:25:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, no 'luck'
Dec 03 21:25:23 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: now you remind me of v1.0 issue with certain SIM cards
Dec 03 21:25:30 <DocScrutinizer05> correct "firmware version"
Dec 03 21:25:30 <kerio> huh...
Dec 03 21:25:37 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: wait, what?
Dec 03 21:25:41 <FIQ> (I happened to have one of the SIMs that didn't work)
Dec 03 21:25:43 <kerio> it should be 21.2011.38-1, shouldn't it
Dec 03 21:25:48 <FIQ> kerio: no
Dec 03 21:25:52 <FIQ> gomiam has PR1.3
Dec 03 21:25:54 <DocScrutinizer05> cmt PR1.3 won't flash with fiasco 1.1
Dec 03 21:25:56 <FIQ> that is 1.3.1
Dec 03 21:26:04 <kerio> oic
Dec 03 21:26:15 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Dec 03 21:26:22 <gomiam> is there a newer version?
Dec 03 21:26:27 <kerio> gomiam: anyway, upgrade to pr 1.3.1 with HAM
Dec 03 21:26:28 <FIQ> gomiam: you want cssu
Dec 03 21:26:31 <kerio> then install cssu-something
Dec 03 21:26:32 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, yours is the most recent one
Dec 03 21:26:41 <FIQ> kerio: that isn't needed
Dec 03 21:26:42 <gomiam> ok, proceeding to update the hell out of it.
Dec 03 21:26:44 <FIQ> cssu installs on 1.3
Dec 03 21:26:47 <kerio> gomiam: you have the latest version of the fiasco images
Dec 03 21:26:58 <kerio> there's a community thing for updates, but it's only post-flash
Dec 03 21:27:24 <FIQ> I'm still surprised that nokia even did 1.3.1
Dec 03 21:27:36 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Dec 03 21:27:55 <FIQ> was there any contract or anything saying "end of support: XXXXX"?
Dec 03 21:28:06 <DocScrutinizer05> esp since the DGAF about vulnerabilities in flash
Dec 03 21:28:08 <FIQ> because that would be the only reason I see for nokia to do such thing
Dec 03 21:28:11 <kerio> FIQ: meh, ssl brokenness is a big deal
Dec 03 21:28:33 <FIQ> kerio: what about the other vulnerabilities?
Dec 03 21:28:45 <FIQ> and the other cert issue creeping up after a while? :p
Dec 03 21:28:50 <FIQ> (they didn't do a pr1.3.2 for it)
Dec 03 21:28:53 <kerio> i guess they stopped caring
Dec 03 21:29:07 * gomiam connected to local wifi...
Dec 03 21:29:08 <DocScrutinizer05> and we all thought the had done before
Dec 03 21:30:17 * ShadowJK wonders what gps software shows "waiting" forever, if it's ovi maps, give up, because it cycles gps on and off like some adhd person
Dec 03 21:30:28 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: you could try dialing '*#0000#' in dialer
Dec 03 21:30:30 <FIQ> ShadowJK: yeah, ovi maps
Dec 03 21:30:43 <FIQ> but i wouldn't be surprised if it was ovi maps issue
Dec 03 21:30:48 <FIQ> it never worked any good
Dec 03 21:30:58 <FIQ> therefore I asked in here for a proper way to check if gps worked
Dec 03 21:31:36 <ShadowJK> It basically switches off gps sooner than theoretical worst case cold start minimum time required to first fix in ideal conditons, so..
Dec 03 21:31:46 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: I have no clue what it will show for you, I only know it *should* show OS version
Dec 03 21:31:46 <FIQ> ..
Dec 03 21:31:49 <FIQ> well
Dec 03 21:31:54 <ShadowJK> gpsjinni, location test
Dec 03 21:32:01 <FIQ> the only reason I consider gps broken at all is that ovi maps at least worked before
Dec 03 21:32:03 <kerio> FIQ: gpsrecorder
Dec 03 21:32:05 <FIQ> (not good, but it worked)
Dec 03 21:32:15 <FIQ> since a year ago it doesn't work *at all*
Dec 03 21:32:19 <FIQ> kerio: what's that?
Dec 03 21:32:24 <kerio> a program
Dec 03 21:32:28 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: it shows 20.2010.36-2
Dec 03 21:32:30 <DocScrutinizer05> also *#06# for IMEI which definitely will blow chunks when cmt defect
Dec 03 21:32:32 <FIQ> ohhhhhhhhhhh
Dec 03 21:32:36 <FIQ> it's a program!
Dec 03 21:32:53 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: heh, what happens if cmt is broken? :p
Dec 03 21:32:56 <FIQ> @ imei check
Dec 03 21:32:57 <ShadowJK> agps "broke" for me at home recently, because my operator installed a new 3g antenna in the mast, and none of the supl servers know of it, and don't give any usable data back :)
Dec 03 21:32:59 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Dec 03 21:33:18 <FIQ> gomiam: try it :3
Dec 03 21:33:21 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: and *#06# answers "IMEI:"... because I have no SIM in it right now?
Dec 03 21:33:27 <FIQ> gomiam: no
Dec 03 21:33:31 <kerio> gomiam: because your cmt is busted
Dec 03 21:33:31 <FIQ> imei is phone, not sim
Dec 03 21:33:37 <gomiam> true, true
Dec 03 21:33:39 <gomiam> my bad
Dec 03 21:33:41 <FIQ> (well, assuming working cmt)
Dec 03 21:33:53 <gomiam> user error: replace user and proceed :)
Dec 03 21:34:07 <FIQ> didn't korea produce new n900 boards or anything?
Dec 03 21:34:17 <FIQ> someone in here told earlier...
Dec 03 21:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the newest rumor
Dec 03 21:34:29 <tadzik> new n900 boards?
Dec 03 21:34:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yep!
Dec 03 21:34:36 <tadzik> what for? :)
Dec 03 21:34:40 <FIQ> repair
Dec 03 21:34:41 <kerio> which korea?
Dec 03 21:34:42 <DocScrutinizer05> repair
Dec 03 21:34:46 <FIQ> ninja'd
Dec 03 21:34:52 <gomiam> DocScrutinizer05: so... should I install the CSSU Features Configuration application?
Dec 03 21:34:52 <FIQ> kerio: the good one I guess
Dec 03 21:34:54 <tadzik> huh, I'm surprised anyone still cares
Dec 03 21:34:58 <FIQ> certainly not the north side
Dec 03 21:35:16 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: one of the two available ones is obsolete and borked
Dec 03 21:35:24 <ShadowJK> they recently discoveered unicorn caves
Dec 03 21:35:34 <gomiam> interesting, only one shows by default. Checking version
Dec 03 21:35:44 <DocScrutinizer05> gomiam: anyway before you install that, you'll want to install CSSU
Dec 03 21:35:55 <gomiam> ok, reading on installing CSSU...
Dec 03 21:36:03 <FIQ> ~cssu
Dec 03 21:36:03 <infobot> methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Dec 03 21:38:09 <FIQ> ok so what was I supposed to do...
Dec 03 21:38:17 <FIQ> right, check what gpsrecord was
Dec 03 21:38:20 <FIQ> or whatever it was named
Dec 03 21:38:31 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: get location test
Dec 03 21:38:41 <DocScrutinizer05> way better than gpsrecord
Dec 03 21:38:53 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: but does it update the clock?
Dec 03 21:39:00 <DocScrutinizer05> err  nope
Dec 03 21:39:01 <FIQ> just tell me what the package is named, i just want to check if this thing works..
Dec 03 21:39:03 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Dec 03 21:39:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~pkg
Dec 03 21:39:21 <infobot> it has been said that pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/
Dec 03 21:39:27 <FIQ> shh
Dec 03 21:39:30 <gomiam> how stable is CSSU "testing"?
Dec 03 21:39:38 <DocScrutinizer05> stable enough
Dec 03 21:39:41 <DocScrutinizer05> usually
Dec 03 21:39:45 <kerio> gomiam: like debian testing
Dec 03 21:39:52 <gomiam> then it is good enough :)
Dec 03 21:39:57 <FIQ> gomiam: do note that you can't go to stable from testing
Dec 03 21:40:09 <kerio> disclaimer: it might not be as stable as debian testing
Dec 03 21:40:09 <FIQ> w/o reflash or BM restoration
Dec 03 21:40:12 <FIQ> (but you can do the opposite)
Dec 03 21:40:14 <DocScrutinizer05> but you can go to testing from stable
Dec 03 21:40:19 <kerio> gomiam: make sure to follow the instructions
Dec 03 21:40:22 <kerio> aka MAKE A BM BACKUP
Dec 03 21:40:27 <FIQ> yep
Dec 03 21:40:35 <DocScrutinizer05> follow the instructions *verbatim*
Dec 03 21:40:39 <FIQ> the instruction that I didn't see the first time, as it wasn't there then :)
Dec 03 21:40:47 <DocScrutinizer05> and waaaaait til you see results
Dec 03 21:40:54 <DocScrutinizer05> don't abort anything!
Dec 03 21:41:13 <DocScrutinizer05> there's nothing known to ever lock up
Dec 03 21:41:16 <gomiam> kerio: wilco, though currently I have no info on the phone so I would have no problem reflashing, now I know how to get it back up.
Dec 03 21:41:21 <FIQ> hmmmmmmm
Dec 03 21:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> just sometimes takes quite a while
Dec 03 21:41:25 <FIQ> ahh whatever
Dec 03 21:41:30 <FIQ> let's do this
Dec 03 21:41:35 * FIQ upgrades to cssu-testing
Dec 03 21:41:44 <FIQ> or... cssu-thumb perhaps
Dec 03 21:41:55 <kerio> FIQ: you're supposed to yell "LEEROOOOOOOOY JEEEEEEEEEENKINS" when you do that
Dec 03 21:42:06 <FIQ> kerio: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK
Dec 03 21:42:17 <kerio> no, LEEEEEROOOOOOOOOY
Dec 03 21:42:40 <DocScrutinizer05> what? jenkings? who the f* is jenkins? <sing!>
Dec 03 21:42:47 <FIQ> ok cssu thumb needs a new kernel afaik
Dec 03 21:42:57 <FIQ> that means that BM restorations wont work
Dec 03 21:43:15 <FIQ> (as I found out the hard way earlier)
Dec 03 21:43:17 <kerio> install kernel-power before
Dec 03 21:43:21 <FIQ> i have it
Dec 03 21:43:22 <kerio> and make a backup with that
Dec 03 21:43:26 <kerio> then it won't need a new kernel
Dec 03 21:43:33 <kerio> unless you have an ancient kernel-power
Dec 03 21:43:34 <FIQ> backup was made 2h ago
Dec 03 21:43:39 <FIQ> uhm
Dec 03 21:43:40 * FIQ checks
Dec 03 21:43:57 <FIQ> ..uname doesn't seem to tell version
Dec 03 21:44:33 <FIQ> ok...
Dec 03 21:44:36 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if a backup could be done after download of PK but *before* it gets flashed
Dec 03 21:44:36 <FIQ> never mind
Dec 03 21:44:42 <FIQ> i didn't have kernel-power
Dec 03 21:44:49 <FIQ> but I'll have it soon
Dec 03 21:45:04 <DocScrutinizer05> so that restoring to that state would trigger immediate kernel flashing
Dec 03 21:45:28 <FIQ> ~kp
Dec 03 21:45:29 <infobot> somebody said kp was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665
Dec 03 21:45:33 <FIQ> not that..
Dec 03 21:46:19 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: i'd rather not try it out
Dec 03 21:46:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<FIQ> ..uname doesn't seem to tell version)) of what?
Dec 03 21:46:25 <DocScrutinizer05> kernel? it does
Dec 03 21:46:30 <FIQ> kernel-power version
Dec 03 21:46:31 <DocScrutinizer05> rootfs? nope
Dec 03 21:46:37 <FIQ> but i realized it was due to vanilla
Dec 03 21:46:44 <FIQ> so i'm installing kp atm
Dec 03 21:47:45 <FIQ> but I'm honestly surprised, I thought I did this ages ago
Dec 03 21:47:51 <FIQ> (or weeks, at least)
Dec 03 21:48:12 <gomiam> starting big cssu download and install...
Dec 03 21:48:15 <FIQ> at least I was going to do it.. guess i forgot it
Dec 03 21:48:36 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, doing restore of a suspended-to-disk swap and rootfs, then triggering immediate hard reboot, that would be awesome
Dec 03 21:49:12 <vi_> is there any program on maemo that lets me watch videos from where I left off?
Dec 03 21:49:14 <FIQ> n900 hibernation?
Dec 03 21:49:26 <vi_> like panucci, but for videos?
Dec 03 21:49:41 <ShadowJK> Weirdly the default media player seems to do that for me
Dec 03 21:49:50 <ShadowJK> or then it's gpodder, *shrug*
Dec 03 21:49:54 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: i don't use it on computer *at all*, but it would be really nice to have suspend-to-disk on n900
Dec 03 21:49:59 <vi_> ah! of course!
Dec 03 21:50:11 <FIQ> especially at the rate I power cycle as I can't charge..
Dec 03 21:50:29 <FIQ> ok DocScrutinizer05, I have kp51
Dec 03 21:50:33 <FIQ> I guess that's enough?
Dec 03 21:50:37 <vi_> ty SJK
Dec 03 21:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: for some purposes it would indeed be nice. But particularly for installing a live system it would be mad useful
Dec 03 21:50:40 <FIQ> for thumb
Dec 03 21:50:44 <kerio> FIQ: then you should be able to just install cssu-thumb
Dec 03 21:50:49 <FIQ> kerio: nice
Dec 03 21:50:51 <kerio> without changing your kernel
Dec 03 21:50:55 <FIQ> i'll do bm backup first though
Dec 03 21:51:00 <FIQ> (again)
Dec 03 21:51:02 <kerio> if you want to be sure, install pali's fiasco-do-update-ask
Dec 03 21:51:03 <vi_> FIQ: good move!
Dec 03 21:51:17 <kerio> but make sure to actually flash if it asks to flash
Dec 03 21:51:57 <FIQ> btmm
Dec 03 21:52:02 <FIQ> pretty simple to remember
Dec 03 21:53:06 <FIQ> heh
Dec 03 21:53:26 <FIQ> there's lots of adventages with a (mostly) open system like maemo
Dec 03 21:53:44 <FIQ> it's improving now, after 3 years of existing
Dec 03 21:53:50 <FIQ> (n900, that is)
Dec 03 21:53:55 <DocScrutinizer05> orly? :-D
Dec 03 21:53:58 <FIQ> :P
Dec 03 21:54:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and I thought all n900 users are steampunks
Dec 03 21:54:22 <FIQ> but I guess the community can only shrink now, mostly
Dec 03 21:54:30 <FIQ> as there are hardly any new n900s
Dec 03 21:54:48 <vi_> plenty of old ones.
Dec 03 21:55:01 <vi_> right now is the golden time to stock up on n900s
Dec 03 21:55:04 <DocScrutinizer05> well, we seen - like - 4 new users during last 3 weeks
Dec 03 21:55:13 <DocScrutinizer05> just here in this chan
Dec 03 21:55:16 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: true
Dec 03 21:55:30 <FIQ> even though n900 users wont increase, the community might do
Dec 03 21:55:50 <FIQ> as casuals replace the device, and their devices get re-used by people that actually care about an open system
Dec 03 21:56:00 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Dec 03 21:57:11 <gomiam> vi_: unfortunately, n900's are still a bit pricy on eBay :)
Dec 03 21:57:25 <gomiam> ok, CSSU testing installed
Dec 03 21:57:31 <FIQ> gomiam: a shop in my country sold *new* (yes, really) n900s
Dec 03 21:57:37 <FIQ> though they did it for launch price..
Dec 03 21:57:41 <FIQ> so not really worth it eh
Dec 03 21:57:44 <tadzik> they still sell new ones here
Dec 03 21:57:51 <tadzik> for ~150€ or so
Dec 03 21:58:09 <FIQ> the shop I saw did it for launch price, so ~600€
Dec 03 21:58:16 <FIQ> tadzik: interested? ;)
Dec 03 21:58:22 <gomiam> tadzik: yup, I got mine for about EUR100
Dec 03 21:58:23 <tadzik> hardly a good offer
Dec 03 21:58:30 <tadzik> FIQ: not really, mine works pretty fine :)
Dec 03 21:58:33 <r00t|home> i bought a like-new n900 on ebay for 80eur...
Dec 03 21:58:40 <FIQ> I guess I could stock up on them
Dec 03 21:58:48 <FIQ> then keep them for some years
Dec 03 21:58:52 <FIQ> then sell it for moar :o
Dec 03 21:59:04 <FIQ> (once they get very hard to come by)
Dec 03 21:59:06 <tadzik> if there will be people to buy them for more
Dec 03 21:59:10 <FIQ> :P
Dec 03 21:59:16 <tadzik> I don't think I'll buy another one if this one broke
Dec 03 21:59:23 <FIQ> i would
Dec 03 21:59:37 <FIQ> I seriously considered ^ that offer as my n900 was useless in a period
Dec 03 21:59:57 <FIQ> but decided to do a last attempt on getting my n900 in working state
Dec 03 22:00:08 <FIQ> which succeed
Dec 03 22:00:30 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: I'd be interested in new N900 with warranty and original package
Dec 03 22:00:37 <DocScrutinizer05> for that price
Dec 03 22:00:42 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: for 600€?
Dec 03 22:00:48 <DocScrutinizer05> no, 150
Dec 03 22:00:50 <FIQ> or 150€? :P
Dec 03 22:00:51 <FIQ> ah
Dec 03 22:00:55 <FIQ> me too
Dec 03 22:01:06 <FIQ> yay
Dec 03 22:01:06 <FIQ> bm don
Dec 03 22:01:07 <FIQ> e
Dec 03 22:01:14 <tadzik> I see 5 units with 24 months warranty for 699 PLN
Dec 03 22:01:27 <tadzik> that's 169€
Dec 03 22:01:29 <FIQ> =gcalc 699 PLN in EUR
Dec 03 22:01:33 <FIQ> oops
Dec 03 22:01:39 <DocScrutinizer05> could you get me 2 of them please?
Dec 03 22:01:48 <tadzik> we can arrange that
Dec 03 22:01:59 * FIQ wants one
Dec 03 22:02:07 <tadzik> I can't guarantee how legit those are
Dec 03 22:02:10 <tadzik> http://allegro.pl/nowa-nokia-n900-gwarancja-24mc-zestaw-i2809945538.html
Dec 03 22:02:27 <kerio> i kinda want one too, but my parents will think that i'm crazy if keep buying the same phone over and over
Dec 03 22:02:37 <FIQ> kerio: lol
Dec 03 22:02:44 <kerio> i mean, more crazy
Dec 03 22:02:51 <FIQ> just tell them that they don't understand
Dec 03 22:03:11 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: tell your parents that uncle doc allowed it
Dec 03 22:03:21 <kerio> yeah, that'll go well
Dec 03 22:03:25 <FIQ> kerio: my parents told me that I acted like oldies that don't do new tech stuff
Dec 03 22:03:42 <FIQ> when I considered getting *one* new n900 as my old one is starting to fall apart
Dec 03 22:03:50 <FIQ> (yes, not just usb issue)
Dec 03 22:03:56 <kerio> FIQ: well... it's kinda true
Dec 03 22:04:11 <FIQ> kerio: but there aren't any replacements :(
Dec 03 22:04:16 <kerio> i know! :(
Dec 03 22:04:32 <Aoyagi> When "new tech stuff" is something, that's less open than a virgin, well, I think I'll pass.
Dec 03 22:04:47 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: that's the problem with legit, I hoped for your knowing the language to be able and check that out
Dec 03 22:04:54 <FIQ> Aoyagi: this new iphone 5 would suite you perfectly then!
Dec 03 22:05:12 <FIQ> hmmm
Dec 03 22:05:14 <Aoyagi> I think you misunderstood me there :P
Dec 03 22:05:26 <FIQ> ohhhhhh
Dec 03 22:05:27 <FIQ> right
Dec 03 22:05:30 <FIQ> completely forgot
Dec 03 22:05:34 <FIQ> so what did jolla have to say?
Dec 03 22:06:33 <gomiam> ok, time for me disconnect. Once again, thanks a bunch for your help, and have fun.
Dec 03 22:06:48 <gomiam> s/ me / me to /
Dec 03 22:06:49 <infobot> gomiam meant: ok, time for me to disconnect. Once again, thanks a bunch for your help, and have fun.
Dec 03 22:06:53 <kerio> take care
Dec 03 22:06:56 <DocScrutinizer05> they say they might come up with a new device next summer, but alas the OS/desktop is *very* HARM-alike. So it's basically a portrait-only phone
Dec 03 22:07:16 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: aw
Dec 03 22:07:25 <FIQ> well if it's open, it can be fixed, right?
Dec 03 22:07:27 <kerio> FIQ: and no keyboard!
Dec 03 22:07:28 <Aoyagi> Well I heard Nokia might have some Android plans.
Dec 03 22:07:28 <FIQ> ...right?
Dec 03 22:07:31 <FIQ> WAT
Dec 03 22:07:33 <FIQ> ...
Dec 03 22:07:35 <FIQ> nvm then
Dec 03 22:07:40 <kerio> so there's that
Dec 03 22:07:47 <tadzik> DocScrutinizer05: well. They claim them new, with Service Warranty
Dec 03 22:07:52 <FIQ> Aoyagi: ...
Dec 03 22:07:53 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: yep, it *can* be fixed. Like KDE4 *can* get fixed
Dec 03 22:08:02 <FIQ> nokia tried everything *but* android
Dec 03 22:08:06 <FIQ> it avoided it like the pest lol
Dec 03 22:08:16 <tadzik> this is an auction-thingy however, like ebay, so you never truly know
Dec 03 22:08:22 <FIQ> so it's considering jumping on the android train now?
Dec 03 22:08:33 <FIQ> *they're
Dec 03 22:08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: could you give them a call and make sure it's unusued factory-new stuff in original packaging?
Dec 03 22:09:00 <Aoyagi> FIQ: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nokia-Android-Smartphone-Microsoft-Google,19495.html it's a rumor, of course. It might as well be MeeGo.
Dec 03 22:09:15 <Aoyagi> Oooor nothing at all.
Dec 03 22:09:17 <FIQ> meego? nokia wont do that
Dec 03 22:09:20 <FIQ> or.. well
Dec 03 22:09:26 <FIQ> nokia has been very confusing the latest years
Dec 03 22:09:34 <frals> trololol
Dec 03 22:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: of course I'll pay all your expenses
Dec 03 22:09:38 <tadzik> DocScrutinizer05: I can write them an email if that's fine with you
Dec 03 22:09:39 <jon_y> summon Mi-Go
Dec 03 22:09:39 <FIQ> indeed
Dec 03 22:09:41 <Aoyagi> Of course, they have a M$ saboteur :P
Dec 03 22:09:47 <FIQ> @ frals 
Dec 03 22:10:14 <FIQ> jon_y: you make me think of pokémon now..
Dec 03 22:10:32 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: sure
Dec 03 22:10:37 <jon_y> well, there was that lovecraft-pokemon crossover
Dec 03 22:10:46 <FIQ> "Mi-Go", that is
Dec 03 22:10:52 <Aoyagi> Wild Mi-Go appears.
Dec 03 22:10:54 <FIQ> (which I read as ho-oh at first)
Dec 03 22:11:00 <jon_y> all the trainers are kids because adults will go insane
Dec 03 22:11:10 <FIQ> heh
Dec 03 22:11:36 <FIQ> Aoyagi: WP used Charm
Dec 03 22:11:42 <jon_y> iirc pokethulu or something
Dec 03 22:12:12 <Aoyagi> Mi-Go is confused.
Dec 03 22:12:34 <jon_y> all the mons were freaky butt ugly ersatz
Dec 03 22:12:38 <FIQ> ok so jolla is making a meego-phone w/o keyboard
Dec 03 22:12:45 <tadzik> whoa
Dec 03 22:12:53 <tadzik> there's another offer where they have...
Dec 03 22:13:00 <tadzik> 98 devices. 12 months warranty
Dec 03 22:13:07 <FIQ> jon_y: i never liked romhacks that featured fakemons, i'm sure i would like that even less
Dec 03 22:13:36 <jon_y> FIQ: the game was paper and pencil like Call of Cthulhu
Dec 03 22:13:51 <FIQ> jon_y: heh
Dec 03 22:13:53 <jon_y> so perfectly fine to make up your own mons
Dec 03 22:13:56 <tadzik> DocScrutinizer05: sent them a question
Dec 03 22:13:59 <FIQ> :P
Dec 03 22:14:15 <FIQ> Hm
Dec 03 22:14:19 <FIQ> About lack of keyboard
Dec 03 22:14:43 <FIQ> There was this kickstarter earlier.. of a keyboard you could connect to whichever phone you wanted
Dec 03 22:14:52 <FIQ> Have anyone of you tried something like that?
Dec 03 22:15:00 <FIQ> connected to bt, etc
Dec 03 22:15:11 <FIQ> i.e. how well does stuff like that work?
Dec 03 22:15:14 <DocScrutinizer05> tadzik: thanks a lot, mate
Dec 03 22:16:11 <FIQ> i'm wondering if it could potentially solve vendors complete refusal of bundling phones with ak eyboard
Dec 03 22:16:21 <tadzik> DocScrutinizer05: you're welcome
Dec 03 22:16:23 <FIQ> s/k e/ ke/
Dec 03 22:16:23 <infobot> FIQ meant: i'm wondering if it could potentially solve vendors complete refusal of bundling phones with a keyboard
Dec 03 22:16:26 <kerio> FIQ: bluetooth keyboards do exist
Dec 03 22:16:38 <FIQ> kerio: yeah, i know
Dec 03 22:16:47 <FIQ> basically I asked how good they work
Dec 03 22:16:56 <FIQ> if they can replace a real one nicely, etc
Dec 03 22:17:04 <kerio> it depends
Dec 03 22:17:17 <kerio> http://akiba-pc.watch.impress.co.jp/hotline/20101228/ni_cgk308e.html this one is a fucking beast, or so i've been told
Dec 03 22:17:25 <FIQ> the one I looked at (but didn't buy) @kickstarter also featured game buttons
Dec 03 22:17:29 <kerio> for "compact" ones
Dec 03 22:17:38 <FIQ> and would be generally awesome if it worked well
Dec 03 22:17:49 <kerio> the kickstarter one is even more compact i think
Dec 03 22:18:00 <kerio> or possibly the same
Dec 03 22:18:10 <kerio> yep, the one on kickstarter looks awfully similar
Dec 03 22:18:27 <FIQ> kerio: link me to which one you're looking at
Dec 03 22:18:37 <kerio> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jorno/jorno-the-pocketable-folding-bluetooth-keyboard the one on kickstarter
Dec 03 22:18:39 <FIQ> @kickstarter
Dec 03 22:18:54 <kerio> the geyes one is actually full-size i think
Dec 03 22:18:55 <FIQ> ah, that wasn't the one i was looking at
Dec 03 22:19:22 <FIQ> while I guess that would work, I was more on something compact, as native keyboards do
Dec 03 22:19:30 <FIQ> i'll google a bit
Dec 03 22:19:32 <kerio> there's plenty of those
Dec 03 22:19:44 <kerio> there's an iphone one that slides from below
Dec 03 22:19:51 <kerio> bluetooth keyboards work fine
Dec 03 22:23:05 <FIQ> ohh
Dec 03 22:23:32 <FIQ> icontrolpad2 was what I was looking at earlier but didn't buy
Dec 03 22:23:40 <FIQ> that one would be awesome if it actually worked :)
Dec 03 22:24:40 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: how would someone identify what's loading a module on a linux desktop, btw?
Dec 03 22:25:07 <FIQ> but it's unavailable atm
Dec 03 22:25:42 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: not that easy, but then there's also not that many possibilities
Dec 03 22:25:59 <DocScrutinizer05> most modules get loaded by udev I guess
Dec 03 22:26:21 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: yeah but imagine in a fully poettered system
Dec 03 22:26:34 <DocScrutinizer05> blaeerrrgh!
Dec 03 22:26:43 <kerio> "in a modern linux desktop, there's no need to blacklist modules"
Dec 03 22:26:57 <FIQ> i haven't a single module blacklisted
Dec 03 22:27:10 <FIQ> *reminds himself of n900 flashing* nvm
Dec 03 22:27:27 <kerio> i use os x, i'm kinda used to bullshit black boxes thinking they're too clever
Dec 03 22:28:11 <kerio> meh, if joshgillies doesn't come here soon with his problem i'll go to sleep
Dec 03 22:28:51 <DocScrutinizer05> joosh got the solution to his problem
Dec 03 22:29:03 <DocScrutinizer05> blacklist phonet
Dec 03 22:29:20 <DocScrutinizer05> needed on 99% of distros nowadays
Dec 03 22:29:58 <DocScrutinizer05> and symptoms when you fail to do are exactly as described by him
Dec 03 22:30:29 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: yeah, i did
Dec 03 22:30:50 <FIQ> that's what i meant with "nvm", i.e. i have *one* module blacklisted :p
Dec 03 22:31:07 <kerio> k, i'll go to sleep then
Dec 03 22:31:15 <FIQ> err oh it was @keri
Dec 03 22:31:16 <FIQ> o
Dec 03 22:31:19 * FIQ is tired
Dec 03 22:31:21 <FIQ> should sleep
Dec 03 22:31:33 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders which moron included cdc_phonet to standard linus kernel
Dec 03 22:32:20 <DocScrutinizer05> I couldn't think of any 'app' that would actually use cdc_phonet
Dec 03 22:32:42 <FIQ> :p
Dec 03 22:33:03 <kerio> [PATCH] USB host CDC Phonet network interface driver
Dec 03 22:33:09 <kerio> From: Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
Dec 03 22:33:13 <kerio> DAMN YOU ELOP
Dec 03 22:34:13 <FIQ> kerio: really or trolling?
Dec 03 22:34:23 <kerio> the third line was me trolling
Dec 03 22:34:25 <kerio> the first two are serious
Dec 03 22:34:35 <kerio> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/133220 this is the thread
Dec 03 22:34:48 <FIQ> why..
Dec 03 22:35:34 <FIQ> ok, so basically, the one that made nokia devices fail was... nokia
Dec 03 22:35:52 <tadzik> go figure
Dec 03 22:56:14 <DocScrutinizer05> well, Alan cox got it to the point in http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/133220
Dec 03 22:56:45 <DocScrutinizer05> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/133538 actually
Dec 03 22:58:12 <SpeedEvil> indeed
Dec 03 22:58:41 <SpeedEvil> getting vendors to fix stuff - or worse - create new standards - is hard
Dec 03 22:59:10 <merlin1991> SpeedEvil: they'll happily create a new standard
Dec 03 22:59:21 <merlin1991> if they can just encapsulate the old one within it
Dec 03 22:59:26 <SpeedEvil> interoperable open
Dec 03 22:59:33 <SpeedEvil> that too
Dec 03 23:02:09 <FIQ> essentially making it worse
Dec 03 23:02:45 <FIQ> hm
Dec 03 23:02:53 <FIQ> ok, bm is probably done now
Dec 03 23:03:08 <FIQ> i forgot about that it was backupping
Dec 03 23:03:13 <FIQ> guess battery died
Dec 03 23:03:58 <FIQ> uh
Dec 03 23:04:06 <FIQ> Now I got the weird issue once again...
Dec 03 23:04:23 <FIQ> when maemo doesn't boot w/o open keyboard
Dec 03 23:05:04 <Aoyagi> no keyboard connected, press F1 to continue?
Dec 03 23:05:16 <FIQ> lol Aoyagi 
Dec 03 23:05:40 <FIQ> Aoyagi: for me, as one that has boot menu, keyboard open or closed during boot actually makes a difference
Dec 03 23:06:01 <FIQ> there we go
Dec 03 23:06:11 <FIQ> for some reason the issue can be fixed by starting bootmenu once
Dec 03 23:06:18 <FIQ> then it happily boots with keyboard closed
Dec 03 23:06:39 <FIQ> maybe this is related to the fact that i just ran backupmenu?
Dec 03 23:06:58 <FIQ> and that maemo doesn't boot after running backupmenu unless I use boot menu?
Dec 03 23:10:56 <Aoyagi> Well, since not much is happening here, could you name a few things that you can do and 'droids can't? I need some fighting arguments here...
Dec 03 23:15:16 <Skry> 22:41 [ Sicelo900] today i attached to a cisco router's console via the console cable + usb-serial adapter + h.e.n , and dealth a huge blow to all the techs i work with, who own different types of android & iphone devices
Dec 03 23:15:37 <Aoyagi> heh
Dec 03 23:16:55 <vi_> recompile kernel on itself
Dec 03 23:22:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: h-e-n \o/
Dec 03 23:23:19 <DocScrutinizer05> Aoyagi: airodump
Dec 03 23:23:31 <Aoyagi> a hwat?
Dec 03 23:23:52 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 runs airodump
Dec 03 23:24:31 <DocScrutinizer05> and even aircrack
Dec 03 23:25:51 <DocScrutinizer05> multiboot (NOT the friggin "app" of same name!) also is a feature hardly found on iPhones at least ;-D
Dec 03 23:28:23 <cobalto> i think a few things that droids can, for example some new background want internet connection 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 04 02:59:59 2012