**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 18 02:59:58 2012
Dec 18 05:38:33 <kerio> cutetube works for me
Dec 18 05:38:55 <kerio> and it does youtube and dailymotion or something
Dec 18 05:49:23 <kerio> meh, nox- left
Dec 18 07:30:59 <unclouded> there's now another script to list, add and remove contacts from the command line: https://bitbucket.org/darkcloud/maemo-addressbook/src/f8f8ce4ef02ba46093b40c3f7abe24a64245bbc7/addressbook?at=master
Dec 18 08:39:09 <Igor2__> hi
Dec 18 08:39:36 <Igor2__> i've installed BatteryGraph from extras on my N900, and the daemon part is strange
Dec 18 08:40:19 <Igor2__> if the daemon is not running, no data is saved, but the process doesn't daemonize itself
Dec 18 08:40:44 <internetishard> After fmms runs my connection stays on MMS, shouldn't it change back to internet connection?
Dec 18 08:40:48 <Igor2__> now i believe this daemon is to blame for my device not booting up (it's animating the dot forever)
Dec 18 08:41:06 <Igor2__> do I have another option to fix this or am i doomed to reflash the device?
Dec 18 08:52:15 <Igor2__> ok, reflashing then
Dec 18 09:08:04 <Igor2__> was less painful than i thought
Dec 18 10:04:40 <Macer> HI GUYS!
Dec 18 10:15:01 <cityLights> whats wrong with the mailing list?
Dec 18 10:18:58 <DocScrutinizer05> cityLights: yeah what?
Dec 18 10:21:55 <cityLights> I got an email, need to look in to it. thought the email was going down
Dec 18 10:23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> unclouded: damn awesome
Dec 18 10:26:20 <DocScrutinizer05> unclouded: and I see you're a real programmer :-) Placing constants left side of ==
Dec 18 10:34:12 <DocScrutinizer05> unclouded: ugh you're indeed a real programmer! lambda, my headache
Dec 18 11:02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> unclouded: I just wonder how much RAM this line will need for an addrbook with some 5000 contacts: >> contacts = addressbook.get_all_contacts() <<
Dec 18 11:06:13 <DocScrutinizer05> while python and generally OO is pretty nice to algorithmically express concepts, it's usually luring coders into a wasteful coding style regarding resources, and profiling/optimizing stuff is nearly impossible
Dec 18 11:11:49 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, could somebody meter and profile this one line above, for runtime/cpu-usage and ram-usage?
Dec 18 11:13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> preferably considering size and number of records in /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db
Dec 18 11:14:15 <DocScrutinizer05> mine is only 45k bytes, so probably not really useful for a stresstest
Dec 18 11:15:47 <unclouded> very true, I didn't even think about the memory required for that invocation.  too much development where RAM is cheaper than developer time! :)  not true of this device though
Dec 18 11:16:08 <jon_y> heh, they told me RAM is dirt cheap
Dec 18 11:16:21 <jon_y> don't matter though if you are working on an embedded system
Dec 18 11:16:29 <jon_y> or any SOC boards
Dec 18 11:24:54 <DocScrutinizer05> unclouded: dunno, maybe you could apply the lambda filter function during instantiation/initialization of the contacts object already?
Dec 18 11:26:09 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc how evolution class is implemented
Dec 18 12:22:05 <MohammadAG> I wonder why I even bother with Harmattan
Dec 18 12:22:20 <MohammadAG> I drop one file in /etc/init and it MALFs
Dec 18 12:22:34 <MohammadAG> Neither Android nor iOS do that
Dec 18 12:32:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, you already noticed that?
Dec 18 12:32:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
Dec 18 12:33:42 <DocScrutinizer05> guess why I stopped even following what's up with HARM
Dec 18 12:33:44 <Sicelo> heh
Dec 18 12:34:25 <teotwaki> I guess that shorthand is pretty self explanatory
Dec 18 12:34:44 <DocScrutinizer05> teotwaki: chosen carefully
Dec 18 12:35:16 <teotwaki> <mystical voice> Just like you were, DocScrutinizer05, just like you were... </>
Dec 18 12:36:14 <MohammadAG> I wonder what borked state is infinite bootloop + red LED on the camera flash
Dec 18 12:36:29 <MohammadAG> I can get to SDK mode, but ssh isn't started
Dec 18 12:36:30 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Dec 18 12:36:44 <MohammadAG> I don't want to throw the damn thing into open mode
Dec 18 12:37:02 <DocScrutinizer05> open mode is a lie
Dec 18 12:37:08 <MohammadAG> exactly
Dec 18 12:37:15 <MohammadAG> it only makes things worse
Dec 18 12:37:36 <DocScrutinizer05> HARM is FUBAR. period
Dec 18 12:38:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I really can't be arsed to even touch it
Dec 18 12:41:19 <DocScrutinizer05> With fremantle we had the problem of missing docs regarding available dbus methods. With HARM we got the same PLUS the methods we know of or found out about are maybe disabled by some brainfart policy. Similar situation with config files
Dec 18 12:42:22 <MohammadAG> oh nice, warranty void thingy
Dec 18 12:42:45 <DocScrutinizer05> bullshit
Dec 18 12:43:10 <RST38h> moo,Mohammad
Dec 18 12:43:14 <RST38h> How is life?
Dec 18 12:44:19 <MohammadAG>  RST38h DocScrutinizer05 answered that :p
Dec 18 12:44:34 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: you probably should blow the dust off your N900
Dec 18 12:44:35 <MohammadAG> wow, still doesn't boot
Dec 18 12:44:41 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer05, actually it's on
Dec 18 12:44:52 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: Do not give in to the fear; fear leads to anger; anger leads to iOS; iOS leads to Objective-C; Objective-C leads to suffering.
Dec 18 12:45:24 <DocScrutinizer05> music is the best
Dec 18 12:45:31 <teotwaki> sex is the best.
Dec 18 12:45:39 <MohammadAG> Obj-C isn't that bad
Dec 18 12:45:48 <MohammadAG> it's actually better than Java
Dec 18 12:46:03 <RST38h> Suffering leads to compiling Linux kernel
Dec 18 12:46:16 <RST38h> Compiling Linux kernel leads to compiling Linux kernel
Dec 18 12:46:19 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: you've said enough stupid things for today.
Dec 18 12:46:24 <RST38h> [and then you die]
Dec 18 12:47:02 <MohammadAG> hehe
Dec 18 12:47:20 <DocScrutinizer05> wisdom is the domain of the wis (which is extinct)
Dec 18 12:47:23 <MohammadAG> I actually liked Objective C :P
Dec 18 12:47:50 <MohammadAG> the only thing that made me stop development is how broken my hackintosh was
Dec 18 12:48:04 <MohammadAG> and the fact a macbook cost about the same as the car I drive
Dec 18 12:48:11 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: well, then understanding how to repair Harmattan should be no problem to you. You're obviously a masochist. Would you like a Windows 8 tablet with that?
Dec 18 12:48:29 <RST38h> teotwaki: Sorry to ask, but what the fuck are you?
Dec 18 12:48:34 <DocScrutinizer05> Beauty is a French phonetic corruption Of a short cloth neck ornament Currently in resurgence...
Dec 18 12:48:38 <teotwaki> RST38h: eh?
Dec 18 12:48:45 <MohammadAG> actually I was thinking of upgrading my laptop to Windows 8
Dec 18 12:48:49 <teotwaki> RST38h: I'm crashanddie.
Dec 18 12:48:53 <RST38h> Mohammad: Avoid.
Dec 18 12:48:55 <teotwaki> As to "what".
Dec 18 12:48:59 <teotwaki> No fucking clue.
Dec 18 12:49:01 <MohammadAG> no
Dec 18 12:49:03 <MohammadAG> you're human
Dec 18 12:49:04 <RST38h> teotwaki: Ah, this places things into context =)
Dec 18 12:49:21 <MohammadAG> heh
Dec 18 12:49:28 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: I paid $800 for my mbp
Dec 18 12:49:31 <teotwaki> or was it $600?
Dec 18 12:49:36 <RST38h> Mohammad: A while ago, specially trained MS representative tried selling me a Win8 ultrabook
Dec 18 12:49:37 <MohammadAG> see, that's not much
Dec 18 12:49:50 <MohammadAG> halve that and add another 0 and you're good to go!
Dec 18 12:50:03 <teotwaki> RST38h: what was it that was bothering you?
Dec 18 12:50:09 <MohammadAG> (yes, it's $4k)
Dec 18 12:50:09 <jon_y> is an ultrabook actually good for anything?
Dec 18 12:50:10 <RST38h> Mohammad: After we chatted for 10-15minutes, he basically agreed that it is not clear why MS is committing suicide in such a convoluted manner
Dec 18 12:50:19 <teotwaki> jon_y: travelling.
Dec 18 12:50:20 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 18 12:50:24 <jon_y> ipad?
Dec 18 12:50:36 <teotwaki> jon_y: development.
Dec 18 12:50:40 <teotwaki> jon_y: linux
Dec 18 12:50:41 <RST38h> teotwaki: Nothing, just putting mosaic pieces together
Dec 18 12:50:43 <teotwaki> jon_y: freedom.
Dec 18 12:50:47 <jon_y> on an ultrabook...
Dec 18 12:50:54 <teotwaki> why yes!
Dec 18 12:50:58 <jon_y> does that actually work?
Dec 18 12:51:08 <MohammadAG> I'd rather develop on an N900
Dec 18 12:51:14 <jon_y> I mean the developing thing
Dec 18 12:51:17 <RST38h> Mohammad: Well, there is Android
Dec 18 12:51:24 <jon_y> can I make -j8? :)
Dec 18 12:51:33 <MohammadAG> RST38h, I have a Galaxy S3
Dec 18 12:51:37 <teotwaki> jon_y: sure :) If you have 3g :)
Dec 18 12:51:44 <MohammadAG> dumped the iPhone, iOS 6 was eugh
Dec 18 12:51:49 <RST38h> Mohammad: But you will have to live with having to write a bunch of Java before getting to really interesting stuff
Dec 18 12:51:59 <MohammadAG> I wrote a simple app
Dec 18 12:52:03 <jon_y> teotwaki: 3g?
Dec 18 12:52:13 <jon_y> 3g connection?
Dec 18 12:52:17 <teotwaki> aye
Dec 18 12:52:19 <MohammadAG> I enjoyed Obj-C more though
Dec 18 12:52:23 <jon_y> :(
Dec 18 12:52:31 <jon_y> 3G costs an arm and a leg
Dec 18 12:52:38 <DocScrutinizer05> we are devo
Dec 18 12:52:42 <teotwaki> jon_y: basically, the reason I'm looking for an ultrabook is because it at least offers the keyboard quality I need to spend hours on it.
Dec 18 12:52:46 <jon_y> with ridiculous 100MB quotas
Dec 18 12:52:56 <DocScrutinizer05> are we not men?
Dec 18 12:53:08 <jon_y> well, if it has USB, an external HD will do fine
Dec 18 12:53:24 <RST38h> Doc: we are fiends,no?
Dec 18 12:53:38 <teotwaki> jon_y: I lent my (13") mbp to a friend, hence I need a laptop for travel. More specifically, I need a laptop tough enough to be mounted on a motorbike, and survive 1.5 meter drops.
Dec 18 12:53:44 <RST38h> teotwaki: Not all ultrabooks have decent keyboards
Dec 18 12:53:52 <teotwaki> a mbp does not fulfil that equation.
Dec 18 12:54:03 <jon_y> I don't think ultrabooks can survive impacts :)
Dec 18 12:54:07 <RST38h> Especially given the fact that every manufacturer out there is trying to copy jobsian island keyboard
Dec 18 12:54:13 <jon_y> unless you cushion pad it
Dec 18 12:54:29 <teotwaki> jon_y: You've never seen a toughbook fall from the third storey and survive, have you?
Dec 18 12:54:44 <jon_y> ultrabooks are not toughbooks
Dec 18 12:54:51 <teotwaki> Some ultrabooks are very tough :)
Dec 18 12:54:52 <jon_y> at least those I've seen in stores
Dec 18 12:55:06 <RST38h> many ultrabooks have got metal cases
Dec 18 12:55:11 <jon_y> they all have ipad colors
Dec 18 12:55:20 <MohammadAG> this makes sense Dec 18 14:52:07 (2012) kernel: [   20.168884] init: boot-watchdog main process (521) killed by TERM signal
Dec 18 12:55:21 <teotwaki> jon_y: lenovo has some sturdy stuff.
Dec 18 12:55:32 <teotwaki> And you don't usually find it in shops.
Dec 18 12:55:40 <ShadowJK> JZA; I forget how it goes, but some .maemo.org things have separate passwords. Single sign on was never completed, iirc.
Dec 18 12:55:44 <jon_y> makes sense
Dec 18 12:55:54 <MohammadAG> talk is talk, rest is garage
Dec 18 12:55:54 <Hurrian> teotwaki, what the hell survives 1.5 meter drops? non-W series Lenovo Thinkpads don't.
Dec 18 12:56:10 <jon_y> teotwaki: so how much premium for that?
Dec 18 12:56:22 <Hurrian> and I'd be wary of strapping a $1000 laptop onto a bike.
Dec 18 12:56:38 <teotwaki> allow me to qualify: drops == jumping with the bike.
Dec 18 12:56:39 <ShadowJK> the forum actually used to be sepaate from maemo.org. and run by an individual, so user/passes were obviously not connected
Dec 18 12:56:52 * ShadowJK suspects the merging of accounts was never completed
Dec 18 12:57:02 <jon_y> I'm looking at the giant HP workstation 8560w, looks awesome
Dec 18 12:57:07 <Hurrian> teotwaki: oh. get a Samsung ARM chromebook or something, and some good shocks
Dec 18 12:57:07 <jon_y> not an ultrabook though
Dec 18 12:57:16 <teotwaki> in which case, it's bike's suspension doing most of the shock absorption
Dec 18 12:57:23 <jon_y> too bad I'll never actually able to afford it
Dec 18 12:57:26 <MohammadAG> this makes even more sense -rw-r--r-- 1 root root    0 Dec 17 17:01 group-mce.conf
Dec 18 12:57:28 <RST38h> not when the bike falls
Dec 18 12:57:31 <MohammadAG> can anyone paste that?
Dec 18 12:57:38 <RST38h> a moment
Dec 18 12:58:45 <jon_y> as what I learned from traveling, get a cheap $200 laptop instead :)
Dec 18 12:58:54 <Hurrian> teotwaki: any small laptop with an SSD would do fine.
Dec 18 12:59:05 <jon_y> put your real machine behind ssh/rdp/vnc or something
Dec 18 12:59:20 <RST38h> then deal with no internet connectivity
Dec 18 12:59:35 <jon_y> well, that or laptop gets stolen
Dec 18 12:59:57 <teotwaki> jon_y: yeah, I've got my compilation environment on two octo cores, but the trouble is when that goes down, or my internet is very dodgy.
Dec 18 13:00:12 <jon_y> :(
Dec 18 13:00:21 <teotwaki> and I don't see myself compiling 1.2M lines of code on an atom.
Dec 18 13:00:23 <MohammadAG> RST38h, got it from scratchbox, ty though :)
Dec 18 13:00:43 <Hurrian> I seriously hope you aren't going to do builds on a tiny laptop.
Dec 18 13:00:54 <teotwaki> I already have, quite a few times.
Dec 18 13:01:11 <RST38h> Atom builds stuff just fine
Dec 18 13:01:17 <teotwaki> Everything's chrooted and automated, so I know the compilation environment is clean.
Dec 18 13:01:27 <RST38h> A bit slowly and it won't handle daily KDE builds I guess
Dec 18 13:01:38 <Hurrian> well, uhh, I wouldn't run around with a $1000 ultrabook on a bike.
Dec 18 13:01:46 <teotwaki> Nha, not $1000
Dec 18 13:01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR2LGEFsP4I
Dec 18 13:02:00 <Hurrian> Might just be me being paranoid of snatchers in my country, though.
Dec 18 13:02:23 <teotwaki> Hurrian: you really think the laptop will get stolen?
Dec 18 13:02:31 <teotwaki> Hurrian: if I leave the bike alone for 20 minutes it's gone.
Dec 18 13:02:46 <Hurrian> whelp
Dec 18 13:02:54 <jon_y> lol, I don't even leave my shoes outside my house
Dec 18 13:03:24 <Hurrian> I'd go with the cheap ARM Chromebook, install a decent Linux distro on it and keep the build environment on a SD card.
Dec 18 13:03:30 <jon_y> yes, petty crime is rather rampant where I live
Dec 18 13:03:59 <teotwaki> Hurrian: in Spain, I once was standing next to the bike, without my riding gear, truck pulls up after 30 minutes, and two guys ask me to take a hike.
Dec 18 13:04:44 <jon_y> teotwaki: they took your bike?
Dec 18 13:04:44 <Hurrian> teotwaki: damn, that's crazy, man
Dec 18 13:05:20 <teotwaki> jon_y: no, I signaled a police car that wasn't too far away, put on my gear (helmet included) and pushed them away.
Dec 18 13:05:40 <jon_y> that is orders magnitude worst than the petty crimes I've seen
Dec 18 13:06:02 <teotwaki> bikes get stolen like nothing. They're easy to sell, transport, whatever.
Dec 18 13:06:02 <RST38h> Doc: Eeeek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo_2.0
Dec 18 13:06:16 <jon_y> which part of Spain is that?
Dec 18 13:07:24 <Hurrian> teotwaki: most motorbikes here are cheaper than an iPhone, so most petty thefts involve smartphones.
Dec 18 13:08:01 <Hurrian> oh, and not to mention criminals can't afford a truck/pickup to haul bikes.
Dec 18 13:08:11 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: indeed eeeeek
Dec 18 13:09:11 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: I have to balance this with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQZ-VVkVu4
Dec 18 13:09:57 * RST38h wonder who would buy a used bike
Dec 18 13:10:12 <MohammadAG> if it's a motorbike, why not?
Dec 18 13:10:19 <RST38h> Same
Dec 18 13:10:29 <MohammadAG> I'd love a mainstream Honda CBR
Dec 18 13:10:32 <teotwaki> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D96QM-lzLM8
Dec 18 13:10:34 * RST38h had an extra bike for years before finally succeeding to sell it
Dec 18 13:10:37 <teotwaki> Look at the 3 minute mark.
Dec 18 13:11:00 <MohammadAG> I need a bike's license
Dec 18 13:11:07 <MohammadAG> though most people suggest otherwise
Dec 18 13:11:13 <teotwaki> get it
Dec 18 13:11:14 <MohammadAG> apparently, it's too dangerous :/
Dec 18 13:11:15 <teotwaki> it's awesome.
Dec 18 13:11:23 <MohammadAG> you don't need to convince me
Dec 18 13:11:26 <teotwaki> you've got a hyper brain, you'll be fine.
Dec 18 13:11:33 <RST38h> I guess it is popular in places where everybody rides motorbikes 
Dec 18 13:11:36 <teotwaki> Just wait till you're 24 before getting it.
Dec 18 13:11:55 <teotwaki> Before 24-25, you'll be too hormone-imbalanced to drive safely.
Dec 18 13:12:13 <jon_y> where I live, some bikers tend to be assholes
Dec 18 13:12:18 <Hurrian> oh, and don't be an ass about lane slicing.
Dec 18 13:12:24 <teotwaki> "oooh, nice ass, I bet I can impress her by deafening her with my exhaust"
Dec 18 13:12:28 <jon_y> like making loud engine noises at 3am
Dec 18 13:12:29 <teotwaki> lane slicing?
Dec 18 13:12:41 <jon_y> teotwaki: or weaving
Dec 18 13:12:52 <Hurrian> teotwaki: when motorbikes think their pedestrians and drive straight down the middle of two lanes
Dec 18 13:12:57 <jon_y> cutting in between cars in heavy traffic
Dec 18 13:13:01 <RST38h> Makes me remember the story of a girl who got a dirt bike a few years ago
Dec 18 13:13:14 <RST38h> Day 1: Got a dirt bike! It is soooo cool
Dec 18 13:13:15 <teotwaki> Hurrian: what's the problem with that?
Dec 18 13:13:20 <Hurrian> I've lost one too many side view mirrors.
Dec 18 13:13:32 <RST38h> Day 3: Everybody is sooo polite with me on the road! Drivers let me pass them!
Dec 18 13:13:52 <MohammadAG> I do that
Dec 18 13:13:54 * MohammadAG hides
Dec 18 13:13:57 <RST38h> Day 6: I am going to a biker party tonight, just outside the city
Dec 18 13:14:05 <MohammadAG> (the slicing part)
Dec 18 13:14:09 <Hurrian> somehow riders with insanely large backpacks on really wide scooters think that slicing in heavy traffic is a good idea
Dec 18 13:14:18 <jon_y> teotwaki: also, many close calls running over bikers that think signal lights means OK to pass
Dec 18 13:14:28 <MohammadAG> oh no, I do it with a car :p
Dec 18 13:14:36 <teotwaki> Hurrian: ah, but you are insulting me if you put a biker in the same category as a scooter driver.
Dec 18 13:14:43 <RST38h> Day 7: It is AAA's boyfriend. AAA's bike collided with a Lada last night, and she died on the spot.
Dec 18 13:14:55 <jon_y> so I was making a left turn when the guy speeds up from behind, nearly ran over him
Dec 18 13:15:40 <Hurrian> teotwaki: whoops, sorry. Nobody buys bikes for performance here, they want pack mules.
Dec 18 13:15:50 <RST38h> Question: In comments to the last (Day 7) blog post, who got the most compassionate comments from the posters?
Dec 18 13:16:03 <teotwaki> RST38h: the Lada?
Dec 18 13:16:15 <RST38h> teotwaki: Spot on. The Lada driver.
Dec 18 13:16:28 <teotwaki> fuck the driver, I'm worried about the car!
Dec 18 13:16:36 <RST38h> teotwaki: Who is now going to face a 5-year sentence, out of the blue
Dec 18 13:16:38 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, used to ride a bike back in uni, and sliced a lot in light traffic - had a little incident with heavy traffic, slicing, and road rage.
Dec 18 13:16:56 <teotwaki> jon_y: again, there's a big difference between lane slicing, which is just not getting stuck in traffic (I only condone it if the traffic is stuck, or moving very slowly), and riding like an idiot passing cars at intersections.
Dec 18 13:17:13 <teotwaki> I once had an accident while slicing.
Dec 18 13:17:22 <Hurrian> teotwaki: such as riders slicing to get to the front of the intersection?
Dec 18 13:17:28 <jaska> if the impact with my car doesnt kill you, i will :)
Dec 18 13:17:35 <jon_y> :)
Dec 18 13:17:39 <teotwaki> Hurrian: again, no problem there :)
Dec 18 13:18:09 <jon_y> no survivors, no witnesses, though the heavy traffic makes it hard for the latter to happen :)
Dec 18 13:18:47 <jon_y> teotwaki: it was slow moving traffic, I was turning into another lane
Dec 18 13:18:51 <Hurrian> but the difference is, lanes in my country are much more narrower than in richer countries, so if you're in anything larger than a sedan, you're bound to get scraped.
Dec 18 13:19:20 <jon_y> I'm OK with bikers getting through slow moving traffic
Dec 18 13:19:20 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, oh :/
Dec 18 13:19:29 <jon_y> but not when I'm making a turn already
Dec 18 13:19:41 <MohammadAG> is it sane that speed traps are now camouflaged?
Dec 18 13:19:41 <teotwaki> Actually, a car ran a red light, cut me off, coming from the right. As I had to brake real hard to evade him, I kind of road-raged, and decided I'd pass him. It was a straight white line, so I shouldn't have, but there was space. I accelerate nicely, and just as I'm level to his rear wheels, he decides to cross the white line and take a left into one-way street (obviously, the wrong way).
Dec 18 13:19:50 <Hurrian> oh, and getting scraped on the road really rustles jimmies, unlike in parts of Europe (Paris?), where I hear that people use bumpers for actual bumping.
Dec 18 13:20:11 <teotwaki> well, it's what they're there for.
Dec 18 13:20:24 <jon_y> :)
Dec 18 13:20:42 <jon_y> I use my bumpers to get into tiny parking spots
Dec 18 13:20:53 <jon_y> bump means you're too close
Dec 18 13:21:06 <Hurrian> heh, even the lightest bump here would get your ears shouted off you.
Dec 18 13:21:15 <jaska> strange cultures. here bump would be a mortal sin
Dec 18 13:21:18 <MohammadAG> teotwaki, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kmVekGfaDS4#t=51s
Dec 18 13:21:21 <jon_y> obviously when nobody is around
Dec 18 13:21:33 <MohammadAG> you don't need to understand hebrew to see how ridiculous it got here :p
Dec 18 13:22:48 <Macer> lol
Dec 18 13:22:59 <Macer> that's why they're called bumpers!
Dec 18 13:23:37 <MohammadAG> jaska, same here
Dec 18 13:23:38 <RST38h> Mohammad: Isn't that guy hot in his army lapserdak?
Dec 18 13:23:54 <Hurrian> actually, people get rustled over bumps so much, that on the national highway, they /stop/ in the middle of the road even for minor scrapes.
Dec 18 13:24:10 <Hurrian> 2km long traffic jam ensues
Dec 18 13:24:11 <jon_y> crazy
Dec 18 13:24:13 <jaska> sound normal to me
Dec 18 13:24:25 <Hurrian> geez, can't people take a picture, then move their shit over to the side?
Dec 18 13:24:33 <RST38h> Hurrian: 2km traffic jam is nothing
Dec 18 13:24:40 <jon_y> where I stay, people WILL SLOW DOWN to watch what they think is an accident
Dec 18 13:24:40 <jaska> i think scraping someone is grounds for getting out of the car and beating the other party to death with a tire iron
Dec 18 13:24:41 <Hurrian> things like that usually double the time it takes to cover the same distance
Dec 18 13:24:44 <MohammadAG> RST38h, rephrase question :p
Dec 18 13:24:46 <RST38h> 200km jam just a week ago, over snow
Dec 18 13:24:54 <jon_y> so both ways on the highway will jam
Dec 18 13:25:03 <jon_y> even if the accident is one side
Dec 18 13:25:08 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, that's actually illegal here
Dec 18 13:25:20 <RST38h> MohammadAG: the camouflage thing - don't they bake under it in the heat?
Dec 18 13:25:21 <MohammadAG> you can't move your car till the police arrive
Dec 18 13:25:36 <MohammadAG> RST38h, it's worth the money
Dec 18 13:25:40 <RST38h> Oh
Dec 18 13:25:58 <MohammadAG> a normal speeding ticket can be about $250-300
Dec 18 13:26:01 <Hurrian> MohammadAG: whelp. Matter of evidence and "who bumped who" thing?
Dec 18 13:26:10 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, yes
Dec 18 13:26:18 <MohammadAG> most people just ignore that in arab parts
Dec 18 13:26:27 <MohammadAG> unless it's a serious accident
Dec 18 13:26:33 <Hurrian> That's kind of the reason people still insist on not moving their perfectly functional cars here.
Dec 18 13:26:57 <MohammadAG> but I've seen small bumps = people lying on the ground pretending they're injured so they get insurance money
Dec 18 13:27:25 <Hurrian> MohammadAG: if only it was that easy to get insurance money here...
Dec 18 13:27:26 <RST38h> mghm
Dec 18 13:27:31 <MohammadAG> RST38h, I have to go to court on the 23rd
Dec 18 13:27:36 <Hurrian> Night guys.
Dec 18 13:27:45 <RST38h> Mohammad: Another bump?
Dec 18 13:27:59 <MohammadAG> no, 160 on a 100kmph 140km highway
Dec 18 13:28:08 <RST38h> oh...well, it happens
Dec 18 13:28:13 <MohammadAG> err, actually 142 on 90
Dec 18 13:28:19 <MohammadAG> 52kmph overspeed
Dec 18 13:28:25 <MohammadAG> RST38h, nope, only in IL
Dec 18 13:28:26 <jon_y> MohammadAG: speed ticketing is serious business :)
Dec 18 13:28:39 <MohammadAG> I lost my license for a month
Dec 18 13:28:59 <MohammadAG> and I might lose it for a year after the court session
Dec 18 13:29:23 <RST38h> Mohammad: A bit harsh, yes, but I actuall had to do community work over a similar case
Dec 18 13:29:36 <RST38h> Mohammad: In the US.
Dec 18 13:29:39 <jaska> wtf.
Dec 18 13:29:40 <MohammadAG> a one time speeding ticket?
Dec 18 13:29:46 <RST38h> Mohammad: Believe it or not, yes
Dec 18 13:29:55 <MohammadAG> with no previous incidents?
Dec 18 13:29:59 <RST38h> Mohammad: Depends on the judge. Some of them are pretty crazy
Dec 18 13:29:59 <MohammadAG> that's dumb as fuck
Dec 18 13:30:05 <RST38h> Mohammad: No previous incidents.
Dec 18 13:30:14 <MohammadAG> how much did you overspeed?
Dec 18 13:30:20 <jon_y> RST38h: which state?
Dec 18 13:30:27 <RST38h> Mohammad: 15-20mph
Dec 18 13:30:31 <MohammadAG> actually there's a risk I have to do that too
Dec 18 13:30:32 <RST38h> jon_y: MD
Dec 18 13:31:00 <jaska> for 24-32kph over? thats ridiculous
Dec 18 13:31:04 <jon_y> hmm, which stat is MD? I'm not familiar with the signs
Dec 18 13:31:12 <RST38h> jaska: As I said, depends on the judge.
Dec 18 13:31:13 <jon_y> *state
Dec 18 13:31:19 <RST38h> jon_y: Maryland.
Dec 18 13:31:26 <jon_y> ok
Dec 18 13:31:28 <MohammadAG> I might 1) lose my license for a year 2) get a fine, about $250-300, 3) community service, 4) need to redo theoretical and/or practical exam or 5) all of them :D
Dec 18 13:31:49 <RST38h> Mohammad: With luck, it will be just #2
Dec 18 13:31:58 <jaska> here you can lose license for atleast 1mo for 30+3kph over, but speeding fines are based on your income
Dec 18 13:32:01 <MohammadAG> that's what I'm hoping for actually
Dec 18 13:32:10 <MohammadAG> I lost it for a damn month
Dec 18 13:32:10 <RST38h> jaska: Yeah, heard that
Dec 18 13:32:14 <RST38h> jaska: Nasty
Dec 18 13:32:16 <jon_y> jaska: Italy?
Dec 18 13:32:20 <MohammadAG> I actually drove that month though
Dec 18 13:32:20 <jaska> .fi
Dec 18 13:32:26 <jon_y> ok
Dec 18 13:32:38 <MohammadAG> and learned the last day that driving without a license is 3 years in jail
Dec 18 13:32:58 <jaska> thats crazy too
Dec 18 13:33:08 <MohammadAG> yeah, luckily I wasn't caught
Dec 18 13:33:15 <RST38h> At least, .IL has public transportation
Dec 18 13:33:34 <MohammadAG> not very easy to travel that way RST38h 
Dec 18 13:33:47 <MohammadAG> two major bus companies, Egged and some arab company
Dec 18 13:34:12 <MohammadAG> Egged don't have any bus stations close to me except for about 3km
Dec 18 13:34:15 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: RST38h: try speeding in Austria. When you're not austrian resident you'll stay in jail until you paid the ~1500EUR fine
Dec 18 13:34:18 <MohammadAG> (or more)
Dec 18 13:34:41 <MohammadAG> so you have to switch a lot of buses to get from one area to another
Dec 18 13:35:04 <MohammadAG> unless you live in an Israeli area, then it's fine, there's a bus stop every km
Dec 18 13:35:14 <jon_y> 1.5K fine?
Dec 18 13:35:21 <RST38h> Doc: Ok, mental note: never rent a car in Austria or Germany 
Dec 18 13:35:31 <jaska> german fines are low iirc
Dec 18 13:35:32 <DocScrutinizer05> in other european countries they "just" take your car keys and don't allow you to continue your travel
Dec 18 13:35:49 <jaska> but the tolerance is really low, like 4kph
Dec 18 13:35:51 <jon_y> how are you suppose to return the car?
Dec 18 13:35:53 <MohammadAG> here in Israel they were kind enough to let me continue driving for 3 days
Dec 18 13:35:54 <RST38h> jaska:Yes but they are Germans, so I am sure they shoot at sight and let their guard dogs take care of the rest
Dec 18 13:36:04 <DocScrutinizer05> jaska: not exactly
Dec 18 13:36:09 <MohammadAG> then they revoked it for a month
Dec 18 13:36:37 <DocScrutinizer05> fines are in the €€ to €€€ range, but you lose your driver licence with >40km/h over speed limit
Dec 18 13:36:53 <MohammadAG> how long?
Dec 18 13:36:54 <jaska> well, to a finn 2-3 digits is low :)
Dec 18 13:37:15 <jaska> atleast if youre employed
Dec 18 13:37:18 <jon_y> jaska: you go up to 4 figure fines?
Dec 18 13:37:18 <MohammadAG> the only time I heard of the police taking a car here is a Porsche driving at about 210kmph
Dec 18 13:37:19 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: depends, 1 month, 3 months
Dec 18 13:37:28 <MohammadAG> not a damn year!
Dec 18 13:37:33 <jaska> jon_y: friends father got 10k or so fine speeding.
Dec 18 13:37:35 <DocScrutinizer05> not the first time
Dec 18 13:37:44 <jon_y> 10K!
Dec 18 13:37:51 <jaska> (relatively wealthy)
Dec 18 13:38:01 <jon_y> them police must be made of money now
Dec 18 13:38:05 <MohammadAG> using the phone while driving is $270
Dec 18 13:38:06 <jaska> i think the highest fines have been 6 digits
Dec 18 13:38:23 <MohammadAG> if you're at a light and it's red, and you hold the phone, you can get fined 
Dec 18 13:38:34 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: well, that camo stuff is just for show
Dec 18 13:38:46 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: it's 40€ and one point here. ( points -> licence loss
Dec 18 13:38:51 <ShadowJK> A guy living in same town as me got a 26kE fine for speeding. 87 in 60 zone
Dec 18 13:38:52 <DocScrutinizer05> 8 points*
Dec 18 13:38:55 <MohammadAG> I got pulled over once, played the "I study at an Israeli uni" card
Dec 18 13:39:01 <jaska> 60eur and points here nowadays i think
Dec 18 13:39:09 <MohammadAG> 12 points for a new driver, 36 for regular ones
Dec 18 13:39:22 <MohammadAG> you're a new driver for 2 years after you get your license
Dec 18 13:39:22 <jaska> think its if you get more than 3 fines/2years its license off
Dec 18 13:39:24 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: here in France, they just set up specific lanes perpendicular to the highway, and catch you when you're 2 miles off.
Dec 18 13:39:32 <MohammadAG> oh right, I forgot that I might have to start the new driver part over
Dec 18 13:39:42 <DocScrutinizer05> jaska: maybe, I'm not sure about exact numbers
Dec 18 13:40:06 <jaska> not 100% sure, never been stopped or fined
Dec 18 13:40:17 <MohammadAG> 2 miles is 4km?
Dec 18 13:40:23 <jaska> 2mi = 3.2km
Dec 18 13:40:24 <RST38h> 3.2
Dec 18 13:41:08 <jon_y> makes taking a bus seem a safe option
Dec 18 13:41:20 <MohammadAG> new driver = you can only carry 2 passengers
Dec 18 13:41:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I learnt to love taxi for short distances. Train and airplane for longer ones
Dec 18 13:41:48 <MohammadAG> so if I have to repeat that, I can only carry 2 passengers for another 2 years
Dec 18 13:42:03 <DocScrutinizer05> OMG!
Dec 18 13:42:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Dec 18 13:43:09 <RST38h> MohammadAG: Sounds reasonable,why would you want more!
Dec 18 13:43:29 <MohammadAG> RST38h: sometimes you have to
Dec 18 13:43:33 <RST38h> Do drunk passengers qualify as cargo BTW?
Dec 18 13:43:45 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: you beat me to that
Dec 18 13:44:07 <DocScrutinizer05> was about to suggest loading the rest of them as cargo
Dec 18 13:44:44 <DocScrutinizer05> wrap'em up in paper ;-D
Dec 18 13:45:11 <RST38h> Meanwhile: German state of Schleswig-Holstein orders Facebook to allow pseudonyms
Dec 18 13:45:22 <DocScrutinizer05> cool
Dec 18 13:45:58 <jon_y> does North Germany rulling include all of Germany?
Dec 18 13:46:10 <jon_y> or is it like the US state wide rulling only?
Dec 18 13:47:08 <MohammadAG> RST38h: hah
Dec 18 13:48:15 <DocScrutinizer05> WOOOHOOO stuff moving on the migration front (see community ML)
Dec 18 13:49:01 <DocScrutinizer05> odd enough I got NFC who's doing what and to which purpose, but obviously something gonna be done tonight
Dec 18 13:50:40 <MohammadAG> Talk about short notice
Dec 18 13:53:31 <DocScrutinizer05> jon_y: depends
Dec 18 13:55:06 <DocScrutinizer05> regarding IT and privacy issues each "state" got its own entity controlling stuff, but basically the jurisdiction is nationwide
Dec 18 13:56:24 <DocScrutinizer05> just the judicature and executive are per state
Dec 18 14:03:01 <DocScrutinizer05> [GENERAL NOTICE] expect downtimes on all *.maemo.org services (except talk.maemo.org) starting now+1h, due to rsyncing to new infra
Dec 18 14:07:14 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: good move (mail to Ferenc)
Dec 18 14:07:19 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
Dec 18 14:07:55 <Pali> why talk.maemo.org will not be moved?
Dec 18 14:08:19 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not exactly maemo.org infra
Dec 18 14:08:39 <DocScrutinizer05> it's owned by Reggie so far, and hosted somewhere in USA
Dec 18 14:08:41 <Pali> it will not be part of maemo.org (or new domain/infra) now?
Dec 18 14:08:45 <MohammadAG> Does maemo.org live on my LAN?
Dec 18 14:09:05 <MohammadAG> Cause it went down after DocScrutinizer05's notice
Dec 18 14:10:03 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: that's still under heavy discussion. I'm all for moving the hosting of tmo to same servers as the rest of *mo, others claim that for obscure legal reasons it has to stay in USA 
Dec 18 14:10:54 <Pali> btw what happend with integration of single sign on for tmo too?
Dec 18 14:11:09 <Pali> to use maemo.org account also for tmo login?
Dec 18 14:11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm strongly suggesting to rather drop all accounts on tmo and require users to re-register if that's needed to allow moving of tmo to EU
Dec 18 14:13:21 <DocScrutinizer05> but unless somebody can explain to us what's the problem with moving tmo out of US and to EU, I'm not even willing to bother about that account dropping
Dec 18 14:13:36 <RST38h> What obscure legal reasons?
Dec 18 14:13:49 <DocScrutinizer05> don't ask me, ask board
Dec 18 14:14:23 <DocScrutinizer05> seems they got a lawyer "working for them" for free
Dec 18 14:15:01 <DocScrutinizer05> this judgement seems actually like based on "free work" to me
Dec 18 14:16:16 <DocScrutinizer05> as in "well, I didn't look into what tmo actually is or which privacy or other data is in it, or which license applies to such data. I just can say there are generally possible issues with moving a server from US to EU"
Dec 18 14:16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> that's exactly a statement I'd expect from a lawyer working "for free"
Dec 18 14:17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> me and jaffa both asked wtf is the actual particular problem with tmo - no answer
Dec 18 14:21:02 <DocScrutinizer05> btw for all I understand about laws and stuff, it'd be Reggie who would "get sued" for not handling that alleged problematic data in a way not conforming the copyright policy he placed on his forum, when he hands that data to community (= board or council). I can't see any law the recipient of that database would break in receiving it
Dec 18 14:21:59 <DocScrutinizer05> and Reggie seems has no such concerns, not at all
Dec 18 14:22:38 <ShadowJK> I'd suspect it has more to do with data privacy acts
Dec 18 14:22:59 <ShadowJK> and the impressum and records' keeping stuff
Dec 18 14:23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> there is no privacy data on tmo (except maybe PM)
Dec 18 14:23:16 <ShadowJK> and let's not forget the cookie laws if it was to be moved to UK :P
Dec 18 14:23:23 <RST38h> Of course there is
Dec 18 14:23:36 <RST38h> There is amapping from posts to usernames and fromusernames to emails
Dec 18 14:23:44 <ShadowJK> Everything the user enters when registering is "privacy data"
Dec 18 14:24:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and how am I concerned about that when I receive that data from Reggie and start to host tmo on my own server?
Dec 18 14:24:37 <RST38h> Get a lawyer!
Dec 18 14:24:43 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Dec 18 14:24:47 <ShadowJK> afaik, you need a list of the nature of that user data that you are storing, and the reason why you are storing it, and what use you will make of it
Dec 18 14:24:49 * RST38h laughs satanically
Dec 18 14:25:19 <DocScrutinizer05> need for whom?
Dec 18 14:25:30 <DocScrutinizer05> who's going to ask me about that list?
Dec 18 14:25:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and even when somebody asks me, I'll just put up such list and happily hand it to him
Dec 18 14:26:22 <ShadowJK> You're legally required to have such a document
Dec 18 14:26:22 <DocScrutinizer05> where's the problem?
Dec 18 14:26:33 <DocScrutinizer05> says who?
Dec 18 14:26:40 <ShadowJK> it's the law
Dec 18 14:26:46 <DocScrutinizer05> where?
Dec 18 14:26:49 <ShadowJK> EU
Dec 18 14:26:53 <DocScrutinizer05> meh!
Dec 18 14:27:01 <DocScrutinizer05> § please!
Dec 18 14:27:55 <DocScrutinizer05> I never heard about any forum owner who got problems with any official document he needed to be allowed to run his forum
Dec 18 14:28:08 <ShadowJK> It's not specific to forums
Dec 18 14:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, so everybody owning a server needs such document or what?
Dec 18 14:28:47 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, just entering sarcasm mode. No offense
Dec 18 14:29:04 * DocScrutinizer05 tries to chill
Dec 18 14:29:10 <ShadowJK> No, everyone maintaining a customer database
Dec 18 14:29:29 <DocScrutinizer05> define customer
Dec 18 14:29:43 <ShadowJK> Anyone using your services
Dec 18 14:29:55 <flux> is it really a big deal to create such a document?
Dec 18 14:30:11 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, I'm going to shut down maemo.cloud-7.de immediately
Dec 18 14:30:38 <ShadowJK> You don't have a customer database?
Dec 18 14:30:47 <DocScrutinizer05> sure I have
Dec 18 14:31:18 <DocScrutinizer05> there are 9 accounts on that server, there are syslogs and whatnot
Dec 18 14:31:46 <DocScrutinizer05> and I don't know who the F will issue such magical document for me
Dec 18 14:32:13 <ShadowJK> I know this applies to webshops and the like, but whether it also extends to community services like forums I don't know :)
Dec 18 14:32:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I know anybody in EU can require from any entity that stores parsonalized data about that individula to disclose them to that individula
Dec 18 14:33:06 <DocScrutinizer05> s/dula/dual/g
Dec 18 14:33:06 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: I know anybody in EU can require from any entity that stores parsonalized data about that individual to disclose them to that individual
Dec 18 14:33:46 <DocScrutinizer05> but I never heard of any official document you'd need to run a webshop or whatever
Dec 18 14:34:00 <DocScrutinizer05> the less for running a forum
Dec 18 14:34:18 <ShadowJK> It might be part of that same that disclosure thing you mentioned
Dec 18 14:34:49 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: but on the other hand you can go ~+10 in austria and almost nobody cares
Dec 18 14:34:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and no, I'm NOT going to ask 20 lawyers until I find one who wants to earn a buck and tells me some random BS about such issue
Dec 18 14:35:22 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: sorry?
Dec 18 14:35:50 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: regarding speeding and jail
Dec 18 14:36:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: yep, if I'm storing personalized data, I have to tell which data this is, and even grant access or even deletion of such data to the "owner", the individual that such data is about
Dec 18 14:37:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I have absolutely zero problems with that in tmo context
Dec 18 14:41:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and actually we already moved the problem from "it's not allowed to transfer a US located server to a EU located hosting" to "whoever will run tmo in the future has to fulfill some requirements specific to the country the server is located at, and board seems unwilling to deal with such requirements of EU for tmo migration"
Dec 18 14:43:13 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I probably could accept such notion. I can't accept telling me "it can't be done since there are laws forbidding it"
Dec 18 14:43:26 <ShadowJK> Anyways, there's lots of cheap hosting in the US, and in the long run we'd probably want to be able to run everything in random places anyway
Dec 18 14:43:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Dec 18 14:43:49 <DocScrutinizer05> we want to run everything in ONE location
Dec 18 14:43:59 <DocScrutinizer05> not on the long run, but as soon as possible
Dec 18 14:44:12 <DocScrutinizer05> to minimize cost and administrative overhead
Dec 18 14:45:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and obviously the main part of *mo hosting is and will stay in EU, and if there are issues to move US based servers to EU, there are definitely MORE issues for the opposite direction
Dec 18 14:45:51 <ShadowJK> I'm thinking of a setup where someone would be willing to donate spare bandwidth and/or cpu+ram on some server they own. Stuff like fileserving and autobuilders seem the easiest to make portable
Dec 18 14:46:28 <DocScrutinizer05> we're not even thinking of stuff like that right now
Dec 18 14:47:04 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't move a whole server and domain according to the month's best offer hosting
Dec 18 14:47:29 <ShadowJK> It's not about moving
Dec 18 14:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> then about what is it?
Dec 18 14:48:07 <DocScrutinizer05> >>we'd probably want to be able to run everything in random places anyway<<
Dec 18 14:48:22 * Luke-Jr ponders how little someone's time would need to be worth, to justify moving to the monthly cheapest server
Dec 18 14:49:04 <ShadowJK> You have a frontend that delegates downloads or compilation requests to available machines (or VMs) in a pool, instead of having a fixed set of machines in the pool, you have a dynamic set, and with the ability to not have them all in one place, the frontend's job becomes to see which ones are available for service, and use those
Dec 18 14:52:02 <ShadowJK> Used to do this with a pre-packaged tarball of scripts and software. Untar, fire off the setup script and it compiled (in user's home dir) the software, synced data with master, and then checked in with master and assumed its role of mysql cache, fileserver, web server or whatever
Dec 18 14:52:31 <ShadowJK> today with VMs, it would be even easier and faster to setup
Dec 18 15:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, but that's absolutely not on our todo list right now
Dec 18 15:10:42 <DocScrutinizer05> and it has a very interesting aspect regarding that nonsensical servar location question: where is such a cloud based service actually located? basically still where the frontend sits, no?
Dec 18 15:13:46 <DocScrutinizer05> so the only 'solution' for tmo I could see in such a concept was to actually run the heavy stuff in a VM on the new EU based *mo infra, but keep a pro forma frontend in the USA to make it "look like" we're hosting tmo there
Dec 18 15:14:31 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't feel right
Dec 18 15:17:06 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway who's actually legally responsible for a server? the one who runs the hardware, the one who pays for it, or the admin in chief?
Dec 18 15:17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> if the latter, the solution is easy: board doesn't do admin of tmo, and finds someone willing to take responsibility
Dec 18 15:19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> actually it seems they already did
Dec 18 15:19:27 <DocScrutinizer05> OHNOES, it's meeeeee! :-S
Dec 18 15:53:29 <DocScrutinizer05> is any of the maemo services already down?
Dec 18 16:02:16 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: and once the data is in the EU, we just silently move the frontend there?
Dec 18 16:03:52 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: I don't see any sense in such a procedure
Dec 18 16:04:47 <DocScrutinizer05> see my last 3 posts above
Dec 18 16:06:18 <kerio> to reduce strain on the whole thing
Dec 18 16:06:49 <DocScrutinizer05> there is no strain
Dec 18 16:07:00 <kerio> oh, http redirects
Dec 18 16:07:02 <kerio> :s
Dec 18 16:09:21 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly this idea is mere academic, we got no manpower to do such virtualization and cloud based hosting, and there's no obvious advantage in implementing it right now. And the problems with migration of whole *mo are not targeted by it either. 
Dec 18 16:16:09 <Jaffa> Regarding the conversation a couple of hours ago, Data Protection Act doesn't apply IIRC: it's either not customer data (because it's not particularly personally identifiable) or because it's just an address book
Dec 18 16:16:18 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer05: RST38h: ^
Dec 18 16:16:59 <Jaffa> However, all of the stuff about that would apply to the existing Garage accounts which Nemein are already hosting. So, I don't see why *moving* the TMO data would be an issue beyond any Data Protection stuff that is already applicable (or not)
Dec 18 16:34:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Jaffa: indeed, but it seems in board is a severe dislike of touching the whole tmo consolidation topic, see the last mail on ML which I forwarded since I don't think such stuff can sanely be handled "behind the walls"
Dec 18 16:36:34 <DocScrutinizer05> Jaffa: what became of your query about the reasons for that? Seems nobody answered your questions either. Or did they answer in private as with that last mail for me?
Dec 18 16:37:33 <DocScrutinizer05> Jaffa: anyway we all are only mere mortals, not "lawyer working for free"
Dec 18 16:37:49 <DocScrutinizer05> so it doesn't matter what we think and what we ask
Dec 18 16:41:23 <spoofy> Hello :) I need an advice - Which battery will be better? (amazon.de links) this one > http://tinyurl.com/comqh8m < tested by dr_frost_dk (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568) or this one > http://tinyurl.com/cbksqp9 1550mAh?
Dec 18 16:42:00 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer05: No reply, and saw the one you posted.
Dec 18 16:42:05 <internetishard> After fmms runs my connection stays on MMS, shouldn't it change back to internet connection?
Dec 18 16:42:13 <spoofy> I wanna hear some opinion :)
Dec 18 16:43:12 <kerio> i thought fmms used a separate connection
Dec 18 16:43:35 <DocScrutinizer05> spoofy: nfc
Dec 18 16:46:00 <spoofy> DocScrutinizer05: why?
Dec 18 16:46:01 <ShadowJK> spoofy; I would trust dr_frost_dk
Dec 18 16:46:27 <DocScrutinizer05> spoofy: because I haven't tested either of both
Dec 18 16:46:55 <spoofy> ShadowJK: both are same manufacturer
Dec 18 16:47:07 <spoofy> akku-king is newer
Dec 18 16:47:09 <DocScrutinizer05> sure?
Dec 18 16:47:15 <spoofy> Yeap
Dec 18 16:47:20 <spoofy> Akku
Dec 18 16:47:22 <DocScrutinizer05> so what's the problem?
Dec 18 16:47:35 <DocScrutinizer05> is this a pun?
Dec 18 16:47:57 <spoofy> I don't know. I want to hear some opinion
Dec 18 16:48:10 <DocScrutinizer05> what's "Akku"?
Dec 18 16:48:23 <DocScrutinizer05> except the german word for rechargable battery
Dec 18 16:48:49 <spoofy> akku is the name of manufacturer
Dec 18 16:49:01 <spoofy> I think..
Dec 18 16:49:14 <DocScrutinizer05> no way
Dec 18 18:36:45 <Guest99148> t
Dec 18 18:53:26 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Dec 18 18:53:27 <infobot> aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51
Dec 18 20:35:27 <Macer> hm
Dec 18 20:35:39 <Macer> hello
Dec 18 21:34:34 <_rd> Hi, do I need to do something to keep the network up in a python command line application, which does socket communication.
Dec 18 21:42:20 <kerio> _rd: huh?
Dec 18 21:42:30 <kerio> _rd: which application? which sockets?
Dec 18 21:42:35 <kerio> why aren't you using twisted already?
Dec 18 21:51:47 <_rd> kerio: what is twisted?
Dec 18 21:51:56 <_rd> I write my own small app.
Dec 18 21:53:51 <kerio> _rd: is it async?
Dec 18 21:56:13 <_rd> yes
Dec 18 21:56:18 <_rd> http://bokomoko.de/~rd/track-bike.py
Dec 18 21:56:25 <kerio> does it handle EAGAIN?
Dec 18 21:56:29 <_rd> nothing sophisticated
Dec 18 21:57:15 <kerio> oh, it's not actually async
Dec 18 21:57:57 <_rd> I think I need something continuously using the network, such as jabber to make it work reasonably reliably
Dec 18 21:58:47 <_rd> what you cannot see in the script, there is a wrapper script for this script, basically calling it again, when it exits.
Dec 18 21:59:12 <_rd> I am sure there is a lot of room for improvement in this script
Dec 18 21:59:27 <_rd> ...and feedback is more than welcome :-)
Dec 18 23:20:11 <Macer> trying to get a damn e7 on ebay
Dec 18 23:35:12 <nox-> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Power-Supply.aspx
Dec 18 23:48:00 <SpeedEvil> why e7?
Dec 18 23:50:00 <SpeedEvil> it would be interesting to find out if those power supplies are sanely rated
Dec 18 23:50:16 <SpeedEvil> and constructed
Dec 18 23:51:05 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed they should meet specs for human medical equipment, which I'm quite sure no chinese PSU does
Dec 18 23:52:40 <SpeedEvil> I opened a power supply I got for a pound shipped, and to my surprise, found 5mm clearance on the PCB
Dec 18 23:53:04 <SpeedEvil> I'm about to dossasemble one to see what the transformer insolation is
Dec 18 23:53:10 <SpeedEvil> insulation
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 19 02:59:59 2012