**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 24 02:59:58 2012
Dec 24 05:27:35 <thedead1440> robbiethe1st: ping
Dec 24 05:28:19 <robbiethe1st> Pong
Dec 24 05:28:31 <thedead1440> any success with the n770 pid? :D
Dec 24 05:31:46 <robbiethe1st> lets see
Dec 24 05:31:54 <robbiethe1st> it says:
Dec 24 05:32:04 <robbiethe1st> "code: 0631695"
Dec 24 05:32:26 <robbiethe1st> "wlan: 00164E98A113"
Dec 24 05:32:37 <thedead1440> the wlan works
Dec 24 05:32:39 <thedead1440> i'm in 
Dec 24 05:32:39 <robbiethe1st> "BT: 0012D108155B"
Dec 24 05:32:51 <robbiethe1st> Perfect.
Dec 24 05:33:09 <thedead1440> thanks! downloading them now!
Dec 24 05:33:30 <thedead1440> damn
Dec 24 05:33:37 <thedead1440> it seems like they broke it :(
Dec 24 05:34:25 <thedead1440> nokia seem to have put dead links up there :( can't be mirrored then
Dec 24 05:36:32 <thedead1440> anyway thanks for the help :)
Dec 24 05:59:53 <robbiethe1st> thedead1440, what one did you need?
Dec 24 06:00:55 <robbiethe1st> I've got some of the images downloaded /somewhere/...
Dec 24 06:04:55 <robbiethe1st> would "SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin" and "SU-18_2007HACKER_4.2008.7-1_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin" be helpful?
Dec 24 06:05:59 <robbiethe1st> I've alsp got "kernel-sdhc-48MHz-3.2006.49.tar.gz" and "modules-3.2006.49-2.tar.gz" if that's helpful; someone's hacked kernel(which worked nicely at the time)
Dec 24 06:06:14 <robbiethe1st> I think that was the thing that enabled SDHC support as well...
Dec 24 06:18:28 <thedead1440> robbiethe1st: sorry was afk; yup those seem to be the latest versions so those would be sufficient i guess. I have no idea as we are just backing up for those who ever need it in the future...
Dec 24 06:18:45 <robbiethe1st> Got some place I can upload it to?
Dec 24 06:18:56 <thedead1440> sure i'll give you a ftp to upload to?
Dec 24 06:19:08 <robbiethe1st> K
Dec 24 07:29:47 <int_ua> where should we collect broken packages? One thread on TMO started collecting reports
Dec 24 07:30:20 <int_ua> Also, someone yesterday mentioned ffmpeg. But it's not broken, just outdated, right?
Dec 24 07:30:40 <thedead1440> int_ua: yup not broken just outdate
Dec 24 07:30:46 <thedead1440> s/outdate/outdated/
Dec 24 07:30:47 <infobot> thedead1440 meant: int_ua: yup not broken just outdated
Dec 24 07:35:10 <robbiethe1st> I love having 16GB of ram. Uploaded a 60MB file via FTP, then realize I want a md5sum for it. Run md5sum... and it returns the code in like a tenth of a second
Dec 24 07:36:04 <Hurrian> robbiethe1st, <3 big ram for virtualization.
Dec 24 07:36:13 <robbiethe1st> yeah
Dec 24 07:38:58 <Hurrian> I'm currently running OS X, with an Ubuntu VM assigned 8GB RAM building fresh kernels, and I'm taking no performance hits.
Dec 24 10:13:13 <DocScrutinizer05> HO HO HOO
Dec 24 10:13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> said the fat man with coca cola red suit
Dec 24 10:33:33 <kerio> merry christmas
Dec 24 11:12:43 <jon_y> ~unity
Dec 24 11:12:43 <infobot> Unity through Diversity!, or a multiplatform game development tool, designed from the start to ease creation. A fully integrated professional application, Unity just happens to contain the most powerful engine this side of a million dollars.
Dec 24 11:12:59 <jon_y> ~poetering
Dec 24 11:13:05 <jon_y> ~poethering
Dec 24 11:13:29 <jon_y> who was the gnome3 dev again?
Dec 24 11:24:32 <tadzik> ~poettering
Dec 24 11:24:32 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Dec 24 11:24:42 <tadzik> but I don't think he's a gnome3 dev really
Dec 24 11:24:55 <kerio> he's just a poettering little bastard
Dec 24 11:25:24 <jon_y> heh, that name
Dec 24 11:25:52 <jon_y> he's the manager for gnome3?
Dec 24 11:28:39 <DocScrutinizer05> a pity dauthor doesn't work
Dec 24 11:28:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+help dauthor
Dec 24 11:28:48 <infobot>    Desc: Find Debian package maintainers, and list the packages they maintain
Dec 24 11:28:49 <infobot>   Usage: dauthor <string> [dist]
Dec 24 11:28:50 <infobot> Example: dauthor Wichert
Dec 24 11:28:50 <infobot> Example: dauthor Wichert potato
Dec 24 11:29:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dauthor poettering
Dec 24 11:29:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+dauthor poettering
Dec 24 11:29:29 <infobot> Debian Author Search of 'poettering' returned no results.
Dec 24 11:29:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+dauthor *poettering*
Dec 24 11:30:02 <infobot> Debian Author Search of '*poettering*' returned no results.
Dec 24 11:30:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+dauthor .*oettering.*
Dec 24 11:30:26 <infobot> Debian Author Search of '.*oettering.*' returned no results.
Dec 24 11:30:33 <jon_y> ~+dauthor poetter
Dec 24 11:30:35 <infobot> Debian Author Search of 'poetter' returned no results.
Dec 24 11:30:50 <DocScrutinizer05> it's broken I think
Dec 24 11:31:06 <jon_y> let's try a common name
Dec 24 11:31:12 <jon_y> ~+dauthor adam
Dec 24 11:31:14 <infobot> Debian Author Search of 'adam' (10): Jakub Adam ;; Adam Borowski ;; Clint Adams ;; "Adam C. Powell, IV" ;; Adam Conrad ;; Adam C. Powell, IV ;; Adam Schmalhofer ;; Adam Cécile (Le_Vert) ;; Adam Sloboda ;; Adam Majer.
Dec 24 11:31:23 <DocScrutinizer05> duh
Dec 24 11:31:26 <jon_y> looks like it's working :)
Dec 24 11:31:45 <infobot> Debian Author Search of 'poettering' returned no results.
Dec 24 11:31:50 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe mr poettering isn't relevant for debian?
Dec 24 11:32:36 <jon_y> I think ubuntu
Dec 24 11:33:31 <jon_y> stop correcting my spelling google
Dec 24 11:33:47 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Dec 24 11:34:11 <DocScrutinizer05> what's definitely broken is ~google
Dec 24 11:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+help google
Dec 24 11:34:19 <infobot>    Desc: What Is: Google Search frontend
Dec 24 11:34:20 <infobot>    Desc: Configuration: "chanset [_default or channelname] +Google"
Dec 24 11:34:20 <infobot>   Usage: google google <query>
Dec 24 11:34:20 <infobot> Example: google google infobot
Dec 24 11:34:50 <jon_y> ~+google MSDN
Dec 24 11:34:54 <DocScrutinizer05> that's probably why it isn't enabled
Dec 24 11:35:06 <jon_y> ~+google google MSDN
Dec 24 11:35:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+chanset _default
Dec 24 11:35:22 <infobot> Default channel settings
Dec 24 11:35:22 <infobot>  BZFlag => 1, Debian => 1, DebianExtra => 1, Dict => 1, Exchange => 1, Factoids => 1, HTTPDtype => 1, Kernel => 1, Math => 1, Plug => 1, Quote => 1, RootWarn => 1, Rss => 1, Search => 1, Topic => 1, Units => 1, Uptime => 1, UserInfo => 1, Weather => 1, Zippy => 1, addressCharacter => ~, allowConv => 1, allowTelling => 1, babelfish => 1, botmail => 1, case => 1
Dec 24 11:35:22 <infobot>  chanlimitcheckPlus => 60, cookie => 1, countdown => 1, debian => 1, debianRefreshInterval => 7, dice => 1, dns => 1, exchange => 1, factoidArguments => 1, factoidDeleteDelay => 7, factoidPreventForgetLimit => 100, factoidPreventForgetLimitTime => 180000, factoidSearch => _default, floodMessages => 10:30, floodRepeat => 2:10, freshmeat => 1
Dec 24 11:35:23 <infobot>  insult => 1, ircTextCounters => heh hah :) ? hi lol, joinfloodCheck => 1, karma => 1, lart => 1, limitcheckInterval => 60, limitcheckPlus => 60, log => 1, maxListReplyCount => 30, md5 => 1, minVolunteerLength => 50, newsDefaultExpire => 7, newsKeepRead => 1, newsNotifyAll => 1, nickometer => 1, pager => 1, piglatin => 1, randomFactoidInterval => 60, reverse => 1
Dec 24 11:35:23 <infobot>  rss => 1, scramble => 1, sed => 1, seen => 1, seenFlushInterval => 120, seenMaxDays => 900, seenStats => 1, seenStoreAll => 1, sendPublicLimitBytes => 1000, slashdot => 1, spell => 1, tell => 1, upsidedown => 1, verstats => 1, wikipedia => 1, wtf => 1, zfi => 1, zsi => 1
Dec 24 11:35:29 <kerio> OH GOD WHAT
Dec 24 11:35:43 <DocScrutinizer05> anybody seeing google in there?
Dec 24 11:35:53 <jon_y> no idea what just happen
Dec 24 11:36:00 <thedead1440> nah no google
Dec 24 11:36:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+chanset #maemo +Google
Dec 24 11:36:25 <infobot> Setting Google for #maemo to '1'.
Dec 24 11:36:35 <DocScrutinizer05> here you are
Dec 24 11:36:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+chanset #maemo
Dec 24 11:36:50 <infobot> chan: #maemo (see _default also)
Dec 24 11:36:51 <infobot>  Google => 1, OnJoin => 1, _time_added => 1179878166, autojoin => infobot, factoidSearch => $chan _default
Dec 24 11:37:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+google google google
Dec 24 11:38:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly doubt it ever worked
Dec 24 11:38:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+chanset #maemo -Google
Dec 24 11:38:19 <infobot> Unsetting Google for #maemo; was '1'.
Dec 24 11:39:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~botsnack
Dec 24 11:39:48 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: aw, gee
Dec 24 11:40:05 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: how's life?
Dec 24 11:40:12 <thedead1440> good
Dec 24 11:40:37 <thedead1440> backups all sorted out :) n800 fws are the only thing missing after which we are 100% set :)
Dec 24 11:40:46 <DocScrutinizer05> great
Dec 24 11:41:03 <freemangordon> thedead1440: what about fremantle SDK wmvare images?
Dec 24 11:41:06 <thedead1440> we were unlucky with scratchbox but managed it this morning
Dec 24 11:41:10 <thedead1440> done too
Dec 24 11:41:14 <freemangordon> great
Dec 24 11:41:14 <DocScrutinizer05> you're kinda massive rock in raging maemo seas
Dec 24 11:41:17 <thedead1440> the links you gave me right?
Dec 24 11:41:28 <freemangordon> thedead1440: yep
Dec 24 11:41:42 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: not rock, a seashell maybe :D
Dec 24 11:41:53 <freemangordon> hehe
Dec 24 11:42:06 <DocScrutinizer05> cshell??? EEEK!
Dec 24 11:42:09 <thedead1440> any progress on what is going to be done?
Dec 24 11:42:12 <thedead1440> haha
Dec 24 11:42:13 <freemangordon> csh
Dec 24 11:42:23 <jon_y> and TCSH!
Dec 24 11:42:39 <jon_y> they are both retarted
Dec 24 11:43:04 <jon_y> proving there are also CLI equivalent of unity
Dec 24 11:43:24 <DocScrutinizer05> (progress) sorting some internal misconceptions, might get done by end of xmess. For the migration we're waiting for nemein to do the migration to interim vservers
Dec 24 11:43:27 <freemangordon> thedead1440: well,  there is not much of an info, as usual :(
Dec 24 11:43:28 <jon_y> I just discovered it had no $LINENO
Dec 24 11:43:41 <thedead1440> freemangordon: you didn't manage to catch ivgalvez?
Dec 24 11:43:52 <freemangordon> ~seen ivgalvez
Dec 24 11:43:55 <infobot> ivgalvez <~ivgalvez@89.140.113.138.static.user.ono.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 18h 36m 41s ago, saying: 'speak later'.
Dec 24 11:43:58 <freemangordon> this
Dec 24 11:44:04 <thedead1440> ah...
Dec 24 11:44:23 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: any chances they will fix the wiki too?
Dec 24 11:44:52 <DocScrutinizer05> they're supposed to do this as soon as migration to those interim servers accomplished, aiui
Dec 24 11:44:53 <thedead1440> its more than 1.5months since unable to do any edits
Dec 24 11:45:08 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, a PITA
Dec 24 11:45:35 <DocScrutinizer05> alas even Nemein is in xmess mode
Dec 24 11:45:38 <thedead1440> honestly how long does migration take? a day, two or 3?
Dec 24 11:45:53 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: all the year?
Dec 24 11:46:04 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe, no idea
Dec 24 11:46:09 <DocScrutinizer05> for sure right now
Dec 24 11:46:12 <freemangordon> looks like :D
Dec 24 11:46:51 <thedead1440> is Nemein somehow a Nokia affiliate? their speed of working matches the latter :D
Dec 24 11:46:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll try to catch bergie and have a word of hackers with him
Dec 24 11:47:28 <freemangordon> thedead1440: both parties are in EU :P
Dec 24 11:47:42 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: (speed) I guess we get what been paid for
Dec 24 11:47:52 <thedead1440> freemangordon: yikes that means all EU companies are that way?
Dec 24 11:48:04 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: you think nemein are underpaid?
Dec 24 11:48:11 <freemangordon> thedead1440: nah, I was kidding
Dec 24 11:48:15 <thedead1440> aren't they over-paid?
Dec 24 11:48:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm quite sure Nokia put maemo.org maintenance into, well... life support mode, long ago
Dec 24 11:49:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but that's mere handwaving of me, no facts of any sort
Dec 24 11:49:29 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: so as all Nokia things once into life support they can't be rescued it seems :p
Dec 24 11:49:48 <thedead1440> I highlighted this in an email to SElop
Dec 24 11:50:00 <freemangordon> we have to succeed this time ;)
Dec 24 11:50:17 <freemangordon> not being Nokia
Dec 24 11:50:20 <thedead1440> got a reply from Mikko Tarkianein
Dec 24 11:50:44 <thedead1440> Nokia’s goal is that the maemo.org continues to serve the Maemo community. The community has done a great job in supporting both the developers and the consumers. Recently, Hildon Foundation has expressed an interest in taking over the maintenance of maemo.org.
Dec 24 11:51:08 <thedead1440> his linked in says: Current:
Dec 24 11:51:10 <thedead1440>     Head of MeeGo SW Maintenance at Nokia / Nokia Lumia Engineering
Dec 24 11:51:28 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Dec 24 11:51:42 <freemangordon> a mixture of oil and water
Dec 24 11:51:43 <thedead1440> and i thought there were only 2 people left in the Harmattan team
Dec 24 11:51:47 <DocScrutinizer05> well, not exactly news he's sharing
Dec 24 11:52:00 <thedead1440> oh the remaining of standard FUD
Dec 24 11:52:28 <thedead1440> I expressly mentioned that there are n900s and n9s under warranty but he conveniently by-passed mentioning the n900:
Dec 24 11:52:29 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, Nemein is talking to us finally
Dec 24 11:52:29 <thedead1440> In addition, Nokia’s care network continues to support the Nokia N9  where under warranty. We have checked our ability to repair and it is good with spare parts secured in standard way as for all Nokia models.
Dec 24 11:52:50 <DocScrutinizer05> and they are really doing sth, so they said
Dec 24 11:53:02 <thedead1440> fingers crossed they do it...
Dec 24 11:53:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ETA for wiki etc: end of year
Dec 24 11:53:16 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: was that on the mailing list?
Dec 24 11:53:20 <thedead1440> yay so 6-7 days more :D
Dec 24 11:53:44 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: in *some* ML, yep
Dec 24 11:53:53 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly council ML
Dec 24 11:54:02 <DocScrutinizer05> or board CC council
Dec 24 11:54:05 <DocScrutinizer05> or whatever
Dec 24 11:54:33 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm swamped with those "internal" mails currently
Dec 24 11:54:59 <DocScrutinizer05> despite still missing an unknown percentage where I'm not on the CC one way or another
Dec 24 11:55:09 <freemangordon> well, there were a couple of mails from nemein guys on maemo-community ML
Dec 24 11:55:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Dec 24 11:55:57 <freemangordon> hmm, it could be that I misread those, but i don;t think there was a deadline
Dec 24 12:06:05 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, the details were in mails from Nemein to board and council
Dec 24 12:07:26 <DocScrutinizer05> check out the TOFU in reggie's reply from 2012-12-19_14:40[CET]
Dec 24 12:07:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ""Re: maemo.org services...""
Dec 24 12:09:05 <DocScrutinizer05> 2012/10/18 Eero af Heurlin [wrote]...:
Dec 24 12:09:18 <DocScrutinizer05> 2012/10/19 Eero af Heurlin [wrote]...:
Dec 24 12:09:21 <DocScrutinizer05> (typo)
Dec 24 12:10:35 <DocScrutinizer05> >>The physical servers (those that will be transferred to foundation ownership) will not be available before new year deadline...<<
Dec 24 12:11:58 <DocScrutinizer05> [that's not a problem since:]  >>[...] Niels will transfer the build services to VM(s)[...]<<
Dec 24 12:13:10 <DocScrutinizer05> you found it?
Dec 24 12:29:04 <DocScrutinizer05> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-December/005828.html
Dec 24 12:29:05 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no need, if you say so
Dec 24 12:32:53 <DocScrutinizer05> also http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-December/005829.html
Dec 24 12:47:05 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: anybody you know who could help with a n800 pid? might as well finish that now too and relax till the new year
Dec 24 12:49:40 <ShadowJK> pid?
Dec 24 12:50:19 <thedead1440> product id to access http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php
Dec 24 13:46:43 <chem|st> Merry X-Mas, CSSU stable 5 is ready for download
Dec 24 14:22:20 <Hurrian> ugh, I really miss my N900.
Dec 24 14:22:35 <Hurrian> Time to work out the OMAP3 QEMU then.
Dec 24 14:36:08 <DocScrutinizer51> Hurrian: time to find a n900
Dec 24 14:36:42 <Hurrian> find a /good/ N900.
Dec 24 14:36:48 <Hurrian> it's rather difficult.
Dec 24 14:37:48 * ShadowJK should clean up his desk
Dec 24 14:37:59 <ShadowJK> so i'd have space to try the cellmo fix
Dec 24 14:38:22 <merlin1991> hm cellmo fix, what cellmo fix?
Dec 24 14:40:03 <ShadowJK> 3 people on tmo (atleast) have fixed dead-modem (aka crossed out sim) syndrome by opening up N900, opening the metal shield covering the modem chips, and gluing on 2 turns of a spring from a ballpoint pen, and then closing the shield and reassembling the N900
Dec 24 14:40:10 <ShadowJK> and modem has begun working again
Dec 24 14:40:28 <Hurrian> so, poor man's reflow?
Dec 24 14:40:53 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Dec 24 14:40:59 <ShadowJK> Converting soldered bga to a bga "socket" lol
Dec 24 14:57:23 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: sorry, nope
Dec 24 14:57:47 <DocScrutinizer05> merry xmess, dear maemonians
Dec 24 15:13:19 <ShadowJK> it's just the wlan mac isn't it?
Dec 24 15:14:20 <kerio> what is?
Dec 24 15:14:33 <kerio> oh, n8x0 downloads?
Dec 24 15:17:18 <ShadowJK> that's for tablets-dev, right?
Dec 24 15:27:58 <kerio> ShadowJK: can't the mac address be guessed, though?
Dec 24 15:28:08 <kerio> oooh, i see your point
Dec 24 15:28:37 <thedead1440> kerio: i once saw a way to guess and enter on tmo for the n900 but somehow can't find the post anywhere
Dec 24 15:29:01 <lekernel> ~Poettering
Dec 24 15:29:01 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Dec 24 15:29:12 <kerio> indeed
Dec 24 15:29:25 <kerio> you can, however, message infobot privately
Dec 24 15:44:11 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: thanks to ShadowJK the n800 fws backed up too ;)
Dec 24 15:44:25 <DocScrutinizer05> fine :-D
Dec 24 15:44:30 <thedead1440> so firmwares for all iterations of maemo and harmattan 100% done
Dec 24 15:44:32 <thedead1440> finally :D
Dec 24 15:44:45 <DocScrutinizer05> you're awesome
Dec 24 15:45:00 <thedead1440> nope all of you for helping with the pids 
Dec 24 15:45:45 <thedead1440> funny thing is the n800 and 770 fw downloads only work on ie or n900's microB
Dec 24 15:45:59 <thedead1440> using mint on ff and chromium they show up as dead links
Dec 24 15:46:20 <DocScrutinizer05> SSL
Dec 24 15:46:46 <thedead1440> but why does n810 and n900 work flawlessly then?
Dec 24 15:46:47 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 has a cert
Dec 24 15:46:55 <thedead1440> ah
Dec 24 15:46:59 <DocScrutinizer05> to authenticate against the download server
Dec 24 15:47:29 <ShadowJK> the downloads work in ff on my fedora pc too
Dec 24 15:47:45 <thedead1440> i tried on safari and chrome in mac too
Dec 24 15:47:53 <thedead1440> somehow i'm jinxed with them :D
Dec 24 15:48:14 <DocScrutinizer05> btw chromium is known to blow chunks for such stuff
Dec 24 15:48:37 <DocScrutinizer05> chrome
Dec 24 15:48:41 <thedead1440> yup hence i use ff but chromium is the alternate one and didn't work in there
Dec 24 15:49:00 <thedead1440> used a vpn on windows assumed that solved it but turned out that ie works 
Dec 24 15:49:17 <thedead1440> and ShadowJK said works on the n900 and true no issues there
Dec 24 15:49:34 <DocScrutinizer05> some insane shite
Dec 24 15:49:39 <thedead1440> anyway its done now we can relax over the next week :D
Dec 24 15:49:45 <DocScrutinizer05> we probably don't even wanna know
Dec 24 15:49:50 <thedead1440> :D
Dec 24 15:50:33 <DocScrutinizer05> now all we need is a backup of tmo?
Dec 24 15:50:45 <thedead1440> yup tmo backup is what is missing
Dec 24 15:50:48 <DocScrutinizer05> to be on the safe side of the fence
Dec 24 15:51:11 <thedead1440> brkn can ghost over it and make a not-legal copy of it but we didn't want to do that since Reggie is donating to the NFP already
Dec 24 15:51:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm going to ask Regie to send a backup (encrypted) tarball to you
Dec 24 15:51:48 <thedead1440> ah cool; we have approx 12-14GB left in the server just nice for the tmo backup
Dec 24 15:51:57 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Dec 24 15:52:18 <DocScrutinizer05> so finally we are nuke safe
Dec 24 15:52:18 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: [re:ssl cert to authenticate] er, wut?
Dec 24 15:52:22 <thedead1440> yup
Dec 24 15:52:23 <kerio> which one?
Dec 24 15:52:41 <thedead1440> I'll send you tomorrow a full list of what we have so you can double-check it
Dec 24 15:52:55 <DocScrutinizer05> fine
Dec 24 15:52:58 <thedead1440> i would prefer to mass list is but its your call what you want us to do with it
Dec 24 15:53:05 <thedead1440> s/is/it/
Dec 24 15:53:06 <infobot> thedead1440 meant: i would prefer to mass litt is but its your call what you want us to do with it
Dec 24 15:53:17 <DocScrutinizer05> mass list the ls -l
Dec 24 15:53:29 <thedead1440> okay will do so
Dec 24 15:53:36 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no secrets in it
Dec 24 15:53:48 <thedead1440> exactly ;)
Dec 24 15:54:10 <thedead1440> the more eyes checking it is always better than just a few
Dec 24 15:54:10 <DocScrutinizer05> we need all the help we can get to check it for completeness
Dec 24 15:54:17 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
Dec 24 15:55:12 <DocScrutinizer05> however I'd appreciate you'd find a blog or whatever idependant of *mo infra, for obvious reasons
Dec 24 15:55:20 <thedead1440> one last thing; i received a PM from a member who doesn't know but he says maybe the following link is also needed to be backed up: http://nds2-fds-forum.nokia.com/nokiaqtsdkrepository/fremtiden/windows/online_qtsdk_repo
Dec 24 15:55:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I could keep a copy on cloud-7
Dec 24 15:55:34 <thedead1440> doing a search for it shows that its now on Digia servers
Dec 24 15:55:40 <thedead1440> so is it needed?
Dec 24 15:56:01 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Dec 24 15:56:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry
Dec 24 15:56:15 <thedead1440> any qt developers know about it?
Dec 24 15:56:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not a hardcore devel
Dec 24 15:56:26 <thedead1440> ping freemangordon  :D
Dec 24 15:56:28 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: ^^^
Dec 24 15:56:45 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Dec 24 15:56:47 <thedead1440> i bet his first response will be: why always me :D
Dec 24 15:56:57 <merlin1991> thedead1440: what's the issue?
Dec 24 15:57:05 <thedead1440> http://nds2-fds-forum.nokia.com/nokiaqtsdkrepository/fremtiden/windows/online_qtsdk_repo
Dec 24 15:57:05 <freemangordon> why always me? :D:D:D
Dec 24 15:57:21 <thedead1440> that link is it required?
Dec 24 15:57:36 <merlin1991> only if you depend on qt creator as an ie
Dec 24 15:57:41 <thedead1440> freemangordon: lol
Dec 24 15:57:44 <DocScrutinizer05> is this part of the needed-backuped maemo-infra?
Dec 24 15:57:48 <merlin1991> we have all the qt dev files in the scratchbox / sdk repos
Dec 24 15:57:58 <thedead1440> ah so this can be safely ignored right?
Dec 24 15:58:05 <freemangordon> I am unable to open that link
Dec 24 15:58:12 <thedead1440> freemangordon: its dead
Dec 24 15:58:16 <freemangordon> aah
Dec 24 15:58:19 <merlin1991> the only thing interesting there is the windows network driver for g_ether
Dec 24 15:58:26 <thedead1440> i did a google for it and it turns out to be on digia servers currenly
Dec 24 15:58:28 <merlin1991> everything else we have in some form or other
Dec 24 15:58:40 <freemangordon> we have it in qtmobilehotspot :)
Dec 24 15:58:45 <thedead1440> ah
Dec 24 15:58:45 <merlin1991> only x86
Dec 24 15:58:50 <merlin1991> x64 is missing in qtmobilehotspot
Dec 24 15:58:59 <thedead1440> can we get just the drivers then?
Dec 24 15:59:04 <freemangordon> merlin1991: "the driver" is not exactly a driver
Dec 24 15:59:19 <merlin1991> :D
Dec 24 15:59:20 <freemangordon> it is just an .inf,
Dec 24 15:59:32 <merlin1991> it comes with some dlls afaik
Dec 24 15:59:33 <DocScrutinizer05> BURRRP
Dec 24 15:59:34 <merlin1991> lemme check
Dec 24 15:59:36 <freemangordon> it reuses activesync stock XP driver
Dec 24 15:59:47 <freemangordon> iirc
Dec 24 16:00:06 * DocScrutinizer05 makes some obscene sounds
Dec 24 16:01:11 <merlin1991> it's an in  2 sys files and some .cat
Dec 24 16:01:13 <merlin1991> + the installer
Dec 24 16:01:47 <freemangordon> 2 sys files?
Dec 24 16:02:16 <merlin1991> rndismpk.sys  usb8023k.sys
Dec 24 16:02:30 <freemangordon> that's strange, you don;t really need anything but .inf to enable "Linux RNDIS Ethernet" under XP
Dec 24 16:02:58 <kerio> what about USB networking via g_nokia?
Dec 24 16:03:00 <merlin1991> maybe that's for something silly like win2000?
Dec 24 16:03:17 <merlin1991> or there are some parts missing in vista onwards?
Dec 24 16:03:20 <merlin1991> who knows :D
Dec 24 16:03:36 <freemangordon> usb8023k.sys is the stock ActiveSync driver, that one shouldn't be freely distributable :D:D:D
Dec 24 16:03:42 <freemangordon> IIRC
Dec 24 16:04:34 <DocScrutinizer05> any (My)SQL gurus around?
Dec 24 16:04:49 <merlin1991> depends on how much guru you need
Dec 24 16:04:59 <DocScrutinizer05> encrypt a colums
Dec 24 16:05:08 <DocScrutinizer05> of a table
Dec 24 16:05:28 <DocScrutinizer05> are there standard means?
Dec 24 16:05:35 <merlin1991> hehe, never encrypted anything but there should be something
Dec 24 16:06:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd like to create a backup of a MySQL database, but only encrypt parts of it
Dec 24 16:07:36 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: no idea but: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7417480/is-it-possible-to-encrypt-columns-of-a-table-in-mysql-db
Dec 24 16:09:00 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: thanks
Dec 24 16:09:22 * DocScrutinizer05 is a lazy sucker who obviously never heard of google
Dec 24 16:09:39 <thedead1440> lol
Dec 24 16:09:57 <thedead1440> you disabled google here hence its expected :p
Dec 24 16:11:27 <thedead1440> merlin1991 & freemangordon, the 2 of you in your discussion didn't mention how to get those 2 drivers and whether they are required:S
Dec 24 16:11:55 <merlin1991> thedead1440: they are reguired to develop from windows and they are in a single package in that whole qt repo
Dec 24 16:12:15 <thedead1440> so that single package is sufficient right?
Dec 24 16:12:32 <thedead1440> and since you had details of it I assume you have that package with you?
Dec 24 16:13:45 <merlin1991> nope I only have the contents, but I do remembe some parts of the name, so trying to dig it up
Dec 24 16:17:13 <DocScrutinizer05> damn, are we a pack of smartasses
Dec 24 16:17:13 <merlin1991> thedead1440: do you have the digia url of the repo?
Dec 24 16:17:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
Dec 24 16:17:29 <thedead1440> nope just saw i was wrong; it isn't released yet
Dec 24 16:17:59 <thedead1440> let me give you the link one sec
Dec 24 16:18:30 <thedead1440> merlin1991: http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/20806
Dec 24 16:18:45 <merlin1991> aww shit
Dec 24 16:19:17 <thedead1440> furthermore the nokia links seem dead since nearly a year
Dec 24 16:19:18 <freemangordon> whaaat?!?
Dec 24 16:19:36 <thedead1440> http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/11434
Dec 24 16:19:51 <DocScrutinizer05> \o\  \o/  /o/  \o/  /o\*clap*  \o/   /o\*clap* \o/ \o\ /o/ \o_|
Dec 24 16:20:14 * freemangordon is speechless
Dec 24 16:20:15 <merlin1991> no fsckd qt creator builds on the qtproject webpage, only foobar libraries
Dec 24 16:20:16 <thedead1440> you can see the bug report link is also dead :(
Dec 24 16:20:17 * DocScrutinizer05 ^^^ did a little dance
Dec 24 16:20:22 <thedead1440> its like a wall of dead links
Dec 24 16:20:26 * merlin1991 bitchslaps whichever idiot did that
Dec 24 16:20:28 <merlin1991> thedead1440: I know
Dec 24 16:20:29 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: why are you so happy?
Dec 24 16:20:55 <thedead1440> so since a year no developer bothered with it until a few days ago sifo PM'ed me :S
Dec 24 16:21:00 <merlin1991> I tried to find docs about shiboken (pyhton qt bindings generator) and it all went from dead links into a circle to a single page on the qt wiki
Dec 24 16:21:02 <DocScrutinizer05> because I found some milk for my coffe today and next 2, and it seems we finally are on our way to rescue maemo
Dec 24 16:21:08 <thedead1440> haha
Dec 24 16:21:27 <freemangordon> developers, developers, ...
Dec 24 16:21:38 <DocScrutinizer05> and chem|st gave us a brand new CSSU-S today
Dec 24 16:21:40 <merlin1991> even the freakin docs folder in the shiboken source has next to no docs
Dec 24 16:22:13 <thedead1440> at least scratchbox.org came alive today; it was alive last week we were mirroring it and around 42% it died 
Dec 24 16:22:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
Dec 24 16:22:50 <thedead1440> imagine the frustration especially that was the same day when ivgalvez said scratchbox.org will need an alternate host in 1 day's time
Dec 24 16:22:58 <merlin1991> why doesn't the qt project provide qt creator buils?
Dec 24 16:23:20 <DocScrutinizer05> now what would be the appropriate central point of communication to talk about tmo and wiki being down?
Dec 24 16:23:24 <merlin1991> I mean that totally breaks the develop anyhwere promise when you get the ide only in form of old versions from some distro package
Dec 24 16:23:29 <DocScrutinizer05>  /. ?
Dec 24 16:23:48 <merlin1991> xkcd.org ;)
Dec 24 16:23:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hahahahha
Dec 24 16:24:10 <thedead1440> lol
Dec 24 16:24:42 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: where would you post your comprehensive list of backups?
Dec 24 16:24:53 <DocScrutinizer05> you got a website or sth?
Dec 24 16:24:56 <thedead1440> that same thread on tmo?
Dec 24 16:25:10 <thedead1440> we havent put up a website on the server yet
Dec 24 16:25:21 <DocScrutinizer05> a bit errr.... .oO(³¼²đ¼³) to post on tmo about tmo backups
Dec 24 16:25:23 <thedead1440> the tmo thread imo is better
Dec 24 16:25:24 <merlin1991> thedead1440: just wondering, who's we?
Dec 24 16:25:29 <thedead1440> as most people can see it
Dec 24 16:25:34 <thedead1440> merlin1991: brkn and me
Dec 24 16:25:43 <int_ua> about Qt5 and Qt Creator: http://askubuntu.com/questions/232339/how-to-add-qt5-to-qt-creator (no answer yet)
Dec 24 16:25:49 <thedead1440> he has done most of the work
Dec 24 16:26:00 <int_ua> merlin1991: Qt Creator ^
Dec 24 16:26:17 <DocScrutinizer05> may I suggest to 'abuse' some wiki(pedia?) talk page for that?
Dec 24 16:26:35 <merlin1991> int_ua: well I want a qt creator windows build in the first place, it's pita to build yourself :D
Dec 24 16:26:41 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe rather an arbitrary blogsite
Dec 24 16:26:58 <merlin1991> thedead1440: just throw wordpress on the server ;)
Dec 24 16:27:08 <merlin1991> and ofc you take some version from last year
Dec 24 16:27:15 <int_ua> merlin: build what exactly? I didn't build anything yet :)
Dec 24 16:27:21 <thedead1440> can be done no prob; i can get a site up in a few hours on it too that's not an issue
Dec 24 16:27:24 <thedead1440> its just visibility
Dec 24 16:27:29 <freemangordon> int_ua: qtcreator for win
Dec 24 16:27:51 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: we care about visibility by linking from tmo to that URL
Dec 24 16:28:05 <thedead1440> ok; will get the website up now then
Dec 24 16:28:09 <DocScrutinizer05> also by frequently posting it here on IRC
Dec 24 16:28:25 <merlin1991> thedead1440: also don't use wordpress ;)
Dec 24 16:28:27 <thedead1440> s/frequently posting/spamming/ :p
Dec 24 16:28:27 <DocScrutinizer05> much appreciated, thanks a lot
Dec 24 16:28:30 <thedead1440> merlin1991: sure
Dec 24 16:29:23 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno, aren't there any 'local' maemo forums?
Dec 24 16:29:41 <DocScrutinizer05> like freeyourphone.de been for openmoko?
Dec 24 16:30:16 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: afaik there are
Dec 24 16:30:17 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: ping
Dec 24 16:30:32 <freemangordon> at least some russian forum
Dec 24 16:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I got no problem with russian forum as long as the labels of links for edit etc are english
Dec 24 16:31:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Dec 24 16:31:22 <freemangordon> no, it is in russian
Dec 24 16:31:35 <DocScrutinizer05> a tad cimbersome then
Dec 24 16:31:40 <DocScrutinizer05> cumbersome
Dec 24 16:32:14 <freemangordon> meegos.ru
Dec 24 16:32:30 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, how about all the meego stuff?
Dec 24 16:32:49 <thedead1440> allnokia.ru too
Dec 24 16:33:02 <DocScrutinizer05> forum.meego.com is down, isn't it?
Dec 24 16:33:17 <thedead1440> nope
Dec 24 16:33:18 <thedead1440> its up
Dec 24 16:33:30 <DocScrutinizer05> who's hosting it?
Dec 24 16:33:30 <thedead1440> wasn't it posted somewhere that Intel would be hosting it? or was i dreaming?
Dec 24 16:33:52 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, our syncing is not yet perfect
Dec 24 16:33:57 <thedead1440> haha
Dec 24 16:35:18 <DocScrutinizer05> linuxfoundation?
Dec 24 16:35:43 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like the perfect place to publish info about maemo.org backup ;-D
Dec 24 16:35:55 <DocScrutinizer05> forum.meego.com that is
Dec 24 16:36:05 <thedead1440> no idea at all; i just remember around 2-3 weeks ago i read somewhere that someone was saying over the weekend he was migrating things over to Intel's servers
Dec 24 16:36:07 <DocScrutinizer05> seems it's hosted by linuxfoundation
Dec 24 16:36:09 <thedead1440> haha
Dec 24 16:36:15 <thedead1440> ah ok
Dec 24 16:36:29 <DocScrutinizer05> host -a forum.meego.com
Dec 24 16:37:00 <thedead1440> yup linuxfoundation it is then
Dec 24 16:37:13 <DocScrutinizer05> meego.com.              7166    IN      NS      ns3.meego.com.
Dec 24 16:37:15 <DocScrutinizer05> meego.com.              7166    IN      NS      ns1.linux-foundation.net.
Dec 24 16:38:03 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: so you could start a thread about "backup and migration of maemo.org" there, and post your list of already mirrored stuff
Dec 24 16:38:11 <DocScrutinizer05> link to it from tmo
Dec 24 16:38:13 <thedead1440> lol
Dec 24 16:38:29 <thedead1440> so not on the server but there then?
Dec 24 16:38:44 <DocScrutinizer05> whatever you prefer
Dec 24 16:38:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, it's a complete forum there
Dec 24 16:39:08 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh it needs registration to post
Dec 24 16:39:09 <thedead1440> ok will post it there then ;) its faster :D
Dec 24 16:39:34 <thedead1440> a dead forum though :D
Dec 24 16:39:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I just think it's useless to keep the index of backup'ed stuff inside the backup
Dec 24 16:39:59 <thedead1440> yup will post it there and pingback to tmo
Dec 24 16:40:45 <DocScrutinizer05> once tmo goes down (God forbid), nobody will find that tmo thread to read up where's the mirror
Dec 24 16:41:05 <thedead1440> yup; hope it never goes down... all my bookmarks would be wasted :S
Dec 24 16:41:10 <DocScrutinizer05> same applies for wiki already
Dec 24 16:41:54 <DocScrutinizer05> DANG!!!
Dec 24 16:42:02 <DocScrutinizer05> we can use openmoko wiki
Dec 24 16:42:32 <DocScrutinizer05> lemme check that
Dec 24 16:42:36 <thedead1440> ok
Dec 24 16:43:06 <DocScrutinizer05> *cough*
Dec 24 16:43:19 <DocScrutinizer05> twiddledee twiddledum
Dec 24 16:43:37 <DocScrutinizer05> now that takes a while till server swaps in the VM
Dec 24 16:48:33 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Offtopic/maemo-migration_and_backup
Dec 24 16:48:46 <DocScrutinizer05> here you are
Dec 24 16:48:56 <DocScrutinizer05> slow like molasses, but hey
Dec 24 16:49:04 <thedead1440> thanks
Dec 24 16:49:10 <thedead1440> i thought it was slow only for me :D
Dec 24 16:50:30 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, it's breaking the rust
Dec 24 16:50:36 <DocScrutinizer05> on the HDD axes
Dec 24 16:50:54 <thedead1440> haha. you host openmoko.org?
Dec 24 16:51:02 <DocScrutinizer05> kinda
Dec 24 16:51:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I have root access to parts of the infra, and the admins been my colleagues
Dec 24 16:51:47 <thedead1440> oh ok
Dec 24 16:51:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~joerg
Dec 24 16:52:00 <infobot> from memory, joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer
Dec 24 16:52:13 <thedead1440> :D
Dec 24 16:54:29 * thedead1440 goes about learning openmoko history
Dec 24 16:55:17 <kerio> don't go there
Dec 24 16:55:21 <kerio> it's a sad story ._.
Dec 24 16:55:50 <thedead1440> something like a Nokia to Jolla spin-off but of failure?
Dec 24 17:00:16 <thedead1440> the symmetry of the neo series reminds me of the motorola aura somewhat
Dec 24 17:26:04 <SpeedEvil> thedead1440: open moko has nothing to do with Nokia. it was a clean sheet startup
Dec 24 17:27:12 <thedead1440> SpeedEvil: yup know that. What I meant was a private organization trying to do something; failing which a Community-led organization takes over it but ultimately doesn't taste much success
Dec 24 17:27:22 <thedead1440> However now I've read about it and its not exactly that
Dec 24 17:27:24 <SpeedEvil> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=1879299#p1879299
Dec 24 17:27:54 <SpeedEvil> is a long rant I wrote about open moko, and how it lived and died
Dec 24 17:28:27 <SpeedEvil> we could have had a 'mass market' usable basic phone with x, in Xmas 2007
Dec 24 17:51:54 <kerio> fscking openmoko inc :(
Dec 24 17:53:00 <thedead1440> SpeedEvil: read up your rant; sad indeed similar to meltemi being given up
Dec 24 17:54:10 <SpeedEvil> of course... there is the corrolory to that.
Dec 24 17:54:21 <SpeedEvil> doing it 'right' is hard.
Dec 24 17:54:44 <SpeedEvil> community involvement at a management level can be much, much harder.
Dec 24 17:54:53 <SpeedEvil> and lead to its own issues.
Dec 24 17:54:54 <thedead1440> yup in fact quite impossible to do it right from whatever i've read for openmoko or nokia
Dec 24 17:56:47 <thedead1440> my understanding for that is as long a community is a community its a great asset but when a community becomes involved in management then every individual's real character other than coding brain comes to the fore hence it makes things that much harder as its like starting everything anew
Dec 24 17:58:20 <thedead1440> hence why i keep my fingers crossed for Jolla; i hope they do well but the doubts never cease in my head unfortunately no matter how much i would love them to succeed
Dec 24 17:58:49 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: hehe http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=1879299#p1879098 check out the buzzfix first page
Dec 24 17:58:53 <kerio> the proprietary UI doesn't bode well imo
Dec 24 17:59:40 <thedead1440> kerio: other than the proprietary UI i'm thinking more like what are their people dynamics within the Company
Dec 24 17:59:59 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: how does a problem like that not get caught during r&d? have they never *tried* the phone?
Dec 24 18:00:11 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: what kerio said
Dec 24 18:00:32 <RST38h> Are we having a TMO night on #maemo today?
Dec 24 18:00:33 <thedead1440> don't tell me the ceos etc were all on their shiny iphones
Dec 24 18:00:47 <thedead1440> RST38h: sorry :S
Dec 24 18:01:08 <RST38h> Any photoshopped designs of a new Jolla phone?
Dec 24 18:01:10 <DocScrutinizer05> it's massively depending on how you *hold* the phone (yep! ;-P, and no that's not an iPhone), on signal situation to cel tower, and on the GSM band used
Dec 24 18:01:33 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: so nobody tried to hold it like an actual person would?
Dec 24 18:02:28 <thedead1440> RST38h: well Jolla seem to control the leaks well so i wouldn't hold out for a leak anytime soon; maybe closer to product launch a deliberate leak :D
Dec 24 18:02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> a lot of people tried, in our Taipei lab. alas that lab has pretty high GSM signal, so the TX power usually is leveled down to a state where you don't notice anything like buzz
Dec 24 18:03:10 <DocScrutinizer05> and then, the buzz always only been on FAR end
Dec 24 18:03:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Dec 24 18:03:15 <thedead1440> so no real life usage?
Dec 24 18:03:27 <thedead1440> like you know other than taking it out of the lab :p
Dec 24 18:03:47 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, we were like 50 people, and nobody was doing 8h test runs in the wild
Dec 24 18:04:35 <thedead1440> all of you must be busy trying X number of ways to run complex apps hence missed out on the basic *phone* feature :D
Dec 24 18:04:40 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually we noticed the complaints, and it took a while until I instructed everybody how to reliably reproduce the problem
Dec 24 18:05:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and it took even way longer until I finally analyzed the problem and came up with buzzfix
Dec 24 18:05:32 <thedead1440> ah
Dec 24 18:06:02 <DocScrutinizer05> while almost everybody else been busy with production
Dec 24 18:06:07 <thedead1440> you should have actually run the organization ;)
Dec 24 18:06:16 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug:
Dec 24 18:06:18 <DocScrutinizer05> sigh
Dec 24 18:06:30 <kerio> christmas, a time of happiness and joy
Dec 24 18:09:43 * ShadowJK 'd not discovered it either
Dec 24 18:09:58 <ShadowJK> I'm mostly in -72dBm or better signal conditions :P
Dec 24 18:10:38 <DocScrutinizer05> you know what finally broke OM GTA03 project's neck, basically? A tiny irrelevant notch in sensitivity diagram of the GPS antenna (it wouldn't detect a sat at 56° elevation, on main plane of the phone [0° declination relative to phone})
Dec 24 18:10:48 <thedead1440> kerio: true :) From an outsider's perspective (mine) it is always fascinating to know what could have been either at Nokia or OpenMoko but then to see it being a classic case of potential unrealized... Sometimes I wonder if some American ruthlessness or Asia "copycat ability" could have helped this potential to be actually realized
Dec 24 18:13:01 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer05; how wide was that?
Dec 24 18:13:05 <DocScrutinizer05> this notch been caused by the earpiece speaker transducer metal blob, and our ME diude suggested to CEO to extend the case by 5mm length, to get some separation of GPS antenna and transducer. I knew this will mean madness and asked him to not do it. He did it. Next morning CEO came and told us (EE) to drop WLAN and GPS and whatnot else
Dec 24 18:13:27 <kerio> haha what the shit
Dec 24 18:13:35 <thedead1440> so the CEO wasn't a technically oriented person?
Dec 24 18:13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> not really
Dec 24 18:15:23 <ShadowJK> drop wlan? wtf :)
Dec 24 18:15:51 <thedead1440> wouldn't there have been more than just murmurs of discontent among the EEs when asked to make such drastic changes?
Dec 24 18:15:53 <DocScrutinizer05> but he was in love with the case design, and very proud of it and of the guy who did it (same guy designed 1st iMac, the desk lamp)
Dec 24 18:18:17 <RST38h> Doc: The french guy who started with toiletware?
Dec 24 18:18:55 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: close
Dec 24 18:19:00 <DocScrutinizer05> :-P
Dec 24 18:19:17 <DocScrutinizer05> US guy who started with webshops for shoes, iirc
Dec 24 18:19:48 <DocScrutinizer05> or do you mean the iMac designer?
Dec 24 18:20:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I never met him
Dec 24 18:20:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Director of some design university iirc
Dec 24 18:20:47 * ShadowJK would've though a gps blind angle would be preferable over dropping gps and wlan
Dec 24 18:21:11 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, it wouldn't cause any noticeable trouble
Dec 24 18:21:42 <DocScrutinizer05> but our CEO thought the design was too demanding and he needs to make it easier for EE
Dec 24 18:21:58 <DocScrutinizer05> by ordering a complete redesign
Dec 24 18:22:09 <ShadowJK> I mean people wave their devices around like rabid crackmonies and block random angles of it all the time
Dec 24 18:22:18 <DocScrutinizer05> when we already were done with 3rd run of prototypes
Dec 24 18:22:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: exactly
Dec 24 18:23:34 <thedead1440___> form prevailing over function in the process destroying the device itself
Dec 24 18:23:34 <DocScrutinizer05> some taiwanese RF house did the antenna design for us, and the sensitivity plots, and nobody inside OM except me understood how to read them
Dec 24 18:24:03 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440___: exactly
Dec 24 18:24:17 <ShadowJK> http://enivax.net/jk/gps-10hrsatplot.png
Dec 24 18:24:51 <ShadowJK> elevation on Y, azimuth on X, pixel brightness represents sat signal, plotted over 10h period
Dec 24 18:24:57 <ShadowJK> guess which way my window faces
Dec 24 18:26:17 <DocScrutinizer05> well, there been a reason why I stood up, mumbled "not going to continue that" and left the room, during that conference when our CEO spoke to us
Dec 24 18:26:31 <ShadowJK> (2 different gps receivers, N810 builtin, and sirfstarIII)
Dec 24 18:27:27 <DocScrutinizer05> 3 months later OM been basically out of business
Dec 24 18:27:50 <thedead1440___> :(
Dec 24 18:28:51 <RST38h> Doc: But look at the bright side: your CEO was persistent, decisive, and risk taking
Dec 24 18:29:02 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Dec 24 18:29:18 <RST38h> Doc: A real businessman, had the guts, etc
Dec 24 18:29:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ask SpeedEvil about it ;-D
Dec 24 18:29:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm biased
Dec 24 18:30:02 <RST38h> Having a brain is almost an afterthought in CEOs.After all, they hire YOU to serve as their brain!
Dec 24 18:30:20 <DocScrutinizer05> alas not in this case
Dec 24 18:30:55 <DocScrutinizer05> CEO decided on EE technical stuff without consulting any EE, the least me
Dec 24 18:31:11 <thedead1440___> DocScrutinizer05, you should be at Jolla ;) The best way for them to do well would be to learn from that + your added expertise is a bonus
Dec 24 18:31:24 <RST38h> Doc: Well, and for various orifices they can fuck you through
Dec 24 18:31:39 <RST38h> Doc: Which is really important because otherwise they get restless
Dec 24 18:31:40 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I offered that to them several times, but I'm too lazy to send a CV
Dec 24 18:31:46 <thedead1440___> The CEO over-reached because he HAD a brain
Dec 24 18:32:44 <thedead1440___> Werent they hiring based on "Community" so why would you need an intro
Dec 24 18:32:56 <SpeedEvil> truly smart people know that they're dumb (or at best uneducated) outside of their field.
Dec 24 18:33:05 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440___: my point
Dec 24 18:33:06 <SpeedEvil> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=1879299#p1879299
Dec 24 18:33:34 <SpeedEvil> rant on open moko that Doc may have been referring to indirectly above
Dec 24 18:34:15 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: and drop wlan and gps... that shows unusual braindeadeddness
Dec 24 18:35:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not all sure what exactly was getting dropped, iirc the rationale been "we can attach all that via BT no problem"
Dec 24 18:35:37 <SpeedEvil> ow
Dec 24 18:35:49 <DocScrutinizer05> didn't matter to me, in that stage of hw development *any* huge change been a massive brainfsck
Dec 24 18:36:18 <DocScrutinizer05> we had working prototypes
Dec 24 18:36:33 <DocScrutinizer05> and we were really really late
Dec 24 18:36:40 <SpeedEvil> missing reception of a satellite in a few percent of the sky, in a system that always has multiple transmitter's...
Dec 24 18:36:53 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed :-S
Dec 24 18:36:57 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: You can't raise to CEO level by admitting you are dumb
Dec 24 18:37:16 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: Everybody else is dumb, and you are a freaking genius.
Dec 24 18:37:50 <thedead1440___> SpeedEvil, thats the same one as earlier linked right?
Dec 24 18:38:00 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.google.de/search?q=sean+moss+pultz
Dec 24 18:38:23 <SpeedEvil> thedead1440___: yes
Dec 24 18:38:39 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C026BqO3DEo/S9BTG1sujKI/AAAAAAAAA1E/3QO8bKJAep4/s640/employeerelationship.jpg
Dec 24 18:39:02 <thedead1440___> also from your rant it also seems like the n900 was a nail on OM's coffin?
Dec 24 18:39:12 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: unfortunately, too true. the world would be a hell of a lot better if people would say 'I don't know' more
Dec 24 18:39:20 <SpeedEvil> thedead1440___: basically, yes
Dec 24 18:39:32 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: wouldn't have any proress then
Dec 24 18:39:36 <SpeedEvil> thedead1440___: and more now, the nexus 4.
Dec 24 18:39:52 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: see Russians - they say "no" aplenty, and where they are? Riiiight!
Dec 24 18:40:10 * ShadowJK wishes nexus4 has worldwide availability
Dec 24 18:41:07 <SpeedEvil> thedead1440___: available shiny hardware, now with at least superficially shiny software, and massive app stores causes major issues for tiny vendors trying to break in.
Dec 24 18:41:17 <RST38h> ShadowJK:Buying the same unit under LG brand is not possible somehow?
Dec 24 18:41:25 <ShadowJK> no
Dec 24 18:41:40 <thedead1440___> SpeedEvil, how apt
Dec 24 18:41:49 <SpeedEvil> I would be interested to know how the funding for n4 worked.
Dec 24 18:41:53 <ShadowJK> Well, LG nexus 4 IS available here from a major retailed, at 600E price point :)
Dec 24 18:42:05 <RST38h> Umgh
Dec 24 18:42:14 <DocScrutinizer05> >> we have learned over these years is that the power of people bound by ideals, rather than contracts, cannot be underestimated<< errr, rrrrrright
Dec 24 18:42:14 <SpeedEvil> was it as simple as massive discounts, for buying 2 million units cash in advance?
Dec 24 18:42:44 <RST38h> Doc: Generally only true for groups of <=10 people
Dec 24 18:42:49 <thedead1440___> SpeedEvil, isnt it said the nexus4's cost to build = RSP?
Dec 24 18:42:52 <DocScrutinizer05> re-read
Dec 24 18:43:07 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe my english is flawed, or my logic is non-standard
Dec 24 18:43:11 <SpeedEvil> thedead1440___: perhaps.
Dec 24 18:43:17 <RST38h> Doc: Nah, sounds clear enough
Dec 24 18:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> if the power is so low that it can't get underestimated, then... BAAD
Dec 24 18:44:06 <FIQ|n900> hi
Dec 24 18:44:11 <RST38h> Doc <-- too deep
Dec 24 18:44:16 <ShadowJK> Jolla aiming for china is clever, big market and incompetently serviced, if at all, by the current players :-)
Dec 24 18:44:49 <thedead1440___> i feel Jolla have had no choice but to aim for the Chinese market
Dec 24 18:44:57 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe he meant "never must get underestimated"
Dec 24 18:44:59 <FIQ|n900> i've done some read ups and from what I read, posts from 2010 shows that N900 only supports ad hoc, is this possible to work around?
Dec 24 18:45:20 <RST38h> ShadowJK: AFAIK, serviced quite well
Dec 24 18:45:41 <FIQ|n900> neither my 3DS, nexus 7, or linux setup (THAT can be worked around by changing network manager though) supports ad hoc
Dec 24 18:45:44 <RST38h> ShadowJK: With cheap Android phones with a lot of fake bling, built in some garage in Guanzhou
Dec 24 18:45:54 <thedead1440___> especially when funding seems to be Asian sources and its the only market which has no fixed OS-love; they just want their apps
Dec 24 18:46:29 <DocScrutinizer05> >>...the best path foreword is...<<
Dec 24 18:47:23 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Santa's journey differs on Google, Microsoft trackers
Dec 24 18:47:50 * RST38h bets Nokia Maps shows Santa stationary,somewhere in FInland
Dec 24 18:47:53 <FIQ|n900> according to old TMO posts, this can only be hacked in by reverse engineering the chip, or asking TI. I guess this hasn't been done and n900 only can do ad-hoc wifi?
Dec 24 18:48:19 <RST38h> FIQ: N900 supports infrastructure WiFI
Dec 24 18:48:31 <FIQ|n900> a post in tmo say the opposite
Dec 24 18:48:46 <RST38h> FIQ: The chip also supports AP mode, but it is connected through an interface that hides normal chip operation
Dec 24 18:48:48 <FIQ|n900> 4. Infrastructure (or AP) mode is "imposible" (as in: not going to happen with these resources, if you can reverse-engineer the chip firmware and hack a way to patch support in: let us know when it works reliably on the N900).
Dec 24 18:49:01 <RST38h> infrastructure as a client is possible
Dec 24 18:49:05 <thedead1440___> FIQ|n900, the n7 can connect to ad-hoc using a simple app from xda
Dec 24 18:49:07 <RST38h> AP and Monitor modes are not
Dec 24 18:49:24 <FIQ|n900> thedead1440___: what if I haven't done initial setup yet?
Dec 24 18:49:45 <thedead1440___> ah
Dec 24 18:50:18 <FIQ|n900> thedead1440___: I'm aware I can get ad hoc working on n7 with the right stuff :P
Dec 24 18:50:22 <DocScrutinizer05> http://lwn.net/Articles/335878/
Dec 24 18:50:28 <FIQ|n900> That would be a solution but not a perfect one for me
Dec 24 18:50:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ Sean about end of OM
Dec 24 18:51:03 <DocScrutinizer05> which is pretty much on topic with our current situation of Nokia ending maemo support
Dec 24 18:51:05 <FIQ|n900> (google not giving ad hoc out of the box is kinda stupid though)
Dec 24 18:53:14 <thedead1440___> DocScrutinizer05, doesnt the handing over of maemo.org to HF seem like deja-vu for you
Dec 24 18:53:34 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed, a lot
Dec 24 18:53:50 <thedead1440___> FIQ|n900, the last i read was it was due to some FCC radiation restrictions
Dec 24 18:54:03 <FIQ|n900> wat
Dec 24 18:54:32 <FIQ|n900> hm
Dec 24 18:54:40 <thedead1440___> i am on my phone; hard to find all the links but that was what I remember
Dec 24 18:54:56 <thedead1440___> just like how the N9 had ad hoc disabled in the US
Dec 24 18:54:58 <FIQ|n900> I wonder if I somehow can hook n7 up to my computer and get the necessary stuff
Dec 24 18:55:08 <thedead1440___> for the same reason more or less
Dec 24 18:55:08 <FIQ|n900> but I don't even live in US..
Dec 24 18:55:40 <thedead1440___> Also security reasons i think
Dec 24 18:55:58 <thedead1440___> Blackberry mentioned security factors for no ad hoc support
Dec 24 18:56:58 <SpeedEvil> no WPA is possible
Dec 24 18:57:02 <SpeedEvil> just wep
Dec 24 18:57:21 <FIQ|n900> well..
Dec 24 18:57:40 <thedead1440___> ah yes that was what i remember being the security factor
Dec 24 18:57:44 <SpeedEvil> clearly, VPN can work.
Dec 24 18:57:46 <FIQ|n900> it should be users choice rather than producers on security
Dec 24 18:57:55 <SpeedEvil> and battery use is another factor
Dec 24 18:58:20 <SpeedEvil> having the radio active all the time is expensive
Dec 24 18:58:36 <SpeedEvil> 50-100mw, even with modern radios
Dec 24 18:59:08 <SpeedEvil> vs sub 5 for an 'active' power saving connection
Dec 24 19:05:59 <ShadowJK> uh, surely it's considerably more than 100mW
Dec 24 19:23:25 <ShadowJK> delicious ham
Dec 24 19:23:29 <ShadowJK> nom nom nom
Dec 24 19:26:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: SpeedEvil meant RX
Dec 24 19:26:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess
Dec 24 19:27:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and yes, even that might be more than 100mW
Dec 24 19:28:01 <DocScrutinizer05> though aiui with ad-hoc you always neet TX as well, all the time
Dec 24 19:28:09 <DocScrutinizer05> need*
Dec 24 19:28:47 <SpeedEvil> yes, RX
Dec 24 19:29:00 <SpeedEvil> ad hoc is just receive
Dec 24 19:29:26 <SpeedEvil> logged in to a router requires transmit too
Dec 24 19:29:53 <SpeedEvil> but is much cheaper, as the radio can be off totally >90% of the time
Dec 24 19:30:25 <SpeedEvil> ad hoc is basically really dumb. turn on the radio, listen for any packet
Dec 24 19:43:28 <DocScrutinizer05> no beacons at all?
Dec 24 19:44:35 <DocScrutinizer05> also I don't get it why they can't do decent RX hw for WLAN. Why has it to hog power like mad?
Dec 24 19:45:11 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, it's not like GPS, eh? where you need to do complex DSP stuff all the time
Dec 24 20:41:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cookie
Dec 24 20:41:51 * infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds epic_fail... found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zll_jAKvarw
Dec 24 21:19:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cookie
Dec 24 21:19:36 <infobot> Hey docscrutinizer05, zip 37409 is Chattanooga Hamilton TN
Dec 24 21:19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cookie
Dec 24 21:19:40 * infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds port 5400... excerpt - Excerpt Search
Dec 24 21:19:44 <kerio> ~botsnack
Dec 24 21:19:45 <infobot> kerio: aw, gee
Dec 24 21:19:48 <kerio> infobot: <3
Dec 24 21:19:49 <infobot> it has been said that <3 is love
Dec 24 21:19:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cookie
Dec 24 21:19:58 * infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... bitgen... convert strings of 1's and 0's to SPICE voltage sources. URL: http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/cadence/bitgen.html
Dec 24 21:45:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~kerio
Dec 24 21:45:48 <infobot> well, kerio is <DocScrutinizer> [...] kerio is correct [...]
Dec 24 22:13:35 <kerio> :3
Dec 24 22:20:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~:3
Dec 24 22:20:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~3
Dec 24 22:20:49 <infobot> 3 is a number, silly
Dec 24 22:21:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ~~3
Dec 24 22:21:40 <DocScrutinizer05> 3~@
Dec 24 22:22:04 <DocScrutinizer05> now that's really silly
Dec 24 22:22:37 <kerio> :3 is kitty face
Dec 24 22:22:40 <kerio> >:3 is lion face
Dec 24 22:22:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 3~@ is turd
Dec 24 22:23:27 <DocScrutinizer05> kitty face, mhm
Dec 24 22:24:57 <DocScrutinizer05> is kitty associated to a specific emotion?
Dec 24 22:25:16 <kerio> ~urban :3
Dec 24 22:25:18 <DocScrutinizer05> or gesture
Dec 24 22:25:21 <kerio> no urban dictionary?
Dec 24 22:25:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+help urban
Dec 24 22:25:39 <infobot> no help on urban.  Use 'help' without arguments.
Dec 24 22:26:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys urban
Dec 24 22:26:07 <infobot> Factoid search of 'urban' by key (7): oldtest urbane ;; strip benurban ;; weathercode burbank ;; weathercode durban louis botha ;; urban ;; benurban ;; weathercode urbana.
Dec 24 22:26:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ~urban
Dec 24 22:26:38 <infobot> A nice shoot-'em-up game for Linux and DOS, lots of blood and gore.. URL: http://urban.home.dhs.org/
Dec 24 22:26:58 <FIQ|n900> ~wesnoth
Dec 24 22:27:01 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/f/f9/Electronics_LION.gif
Dec 24 22:27:27 <FIQ|n900> "Linux and DOS" interesting combination of OSes
Dec 24 22:28:53 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm so "eeeek! a kitty!" ?
Dec 24 22:30:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ;3ε:
Dec 24 22:30:38 <kerio> well, no
Dec 24 22:30:40 <DocScrutinizer05> looks like Zoydberg
Dec 24 22:30:44 <kerio> it's "awwww! a kitty! :3"
Dec 24 22:31:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ε:  at least with my font here
Dec 24 22:31:22 <kerio> that's an arbitrarily small kitten
Dec 24 22:32:24 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how much more bored he could possibly get, in 1 or 2 hours from now
Dec 24 22:32:58 <DocScrutinizer05> even TV is da bore
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 25 02:59:58 2012