**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 02 02:59:59 2013 Jan 02 03:32:22 hi could someone direct me to how to get start with (http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php) to compile for fremantle Jan 02 03:35:19 do i need a linux pc Jan 02 03:35:31 or windows Jan 02 04:01:23 You can either use a Linux PC or you can use a Windows PC with a Linux VM Jan 02 04:14:55 how to setup in linux pc ? Jan 02 05:31:37 not sure if trolling: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85641 Jan 02 05:35:20 haha Jan 02 08:59:59 hi can anyone tell me which script or service locks screen Jan 02 09:00:53 sourav: osso-systemui-tklock Jan 02 09:00:57 it's a systemui plugin Jan 02 09:01:04 sourav http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Lock_screen_and_keys_.28slider_lockswitch.29 Jan 02 09:03:16 thanks Jan 02 09:17:34 help me installing VM on ubuntu-tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z Jan 02 09:17:58 I mean I want to install it how to do so Jan 02 09:20:43 sourav seems like you need either vmware player, virtualbox or qemu to use it, personally I usually pick the PUEL version of Virtualbox for such things Jan 02 09:20:58 I haven't tried that image myself Jan 02 09:48:25 hola evr1 Jan 02 09:48:47 who tried to install nitroid? Jan 02 09:53:05 what problem do you have ? Jan 02 09:58:06 I live in russia... it's a big problem... Jan 02 09:59:29 :) wanna ttry to install android on my old N900 Jan 02 10:24:55 is the Pierogi project still supported ? Jan 02 10:25:11 remote IR control for TV's etc... Jan 02 10:26:57 jpinx: I have seen it being supported... Jan 02 10:27:55 their website is undated and the threads in the forums seem to be stagnant Jan 02 10:33:10 well, it works fine Jan 02 10:33:22 i think the author is just looking for some more keysets Jan 02 11:23:29 Do you guys think it is still possible to find a new original Nokia N900 screen? Jan 02 11:23:50 The top layer of my screen has a deep scratch on it and I would like to replace it Jan 02 11:24:48 EchoDev: try ebay Jan 02 11:25:07 I think I saw one the other day, but I couldn't tell you where even if you were to torture me with hip hop. Jan 02 11:25:45 * EchoDev plays hip hop Jan 02 11:25:46 :3 Jan 02 11:26:02 * Belzebub plays dubstep Jan 02 11:26:05 :3 Jan 02 11:26:13 Hmm, maybe I'll give Nokia a call you never know lol Jan 02 11:26:23 Heh. But it was some tiny unknown internet store anyway. Jan 02 11:26:41 Ebay has them but I'm not sure they are original Jan 02 11:48:50 * thedead1440 thinks the Board only post/communicate when they need donations or help as a formality... Jan 02 12:33:20 guys, http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libosso-abook/ etc - are those as well in SDK? or do we need to mirror it? Jan 02 12:34:41 honestly, if you want your council to take care about keeping maemo.org infra alive, you should help on defining that task at least Jan 02 12:35:12 agreed Jan 02 12:35:52 oops wrong channel :S Jan 02 12:37:32 we're giving a leg to backup everything, but we need input to know what "everything" means! Jan 02 12:38:13 yeah Jan 02 12:39:15 *IF* original maemo.org servers go down inadvertently and never come back, and the backups we created *for you* are missing fundamental stuff, don't blame council or the volunteers that do those backups Jan 02 12:41:15 there's a list of all we backup'ed so far, on http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/ (not on *.maemo.org, for obvious reasons). Pretty please check this list for completeness!!!! Jan 02 12:42:13 if something is not in there, expect it to vanish eventually Jan 02 12:42:42 not that this actually was the plan, but we need to be prepared for times when s**** hits the fan Jan 02 12:45:39 there's a thread on tmo (expected to stay up and running til 20th of January) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88031 PLEASE add your findings and comments there! Jan 02 12:46:49 no comments like "you rock/you suck" and similar please, but actual info about stuff we missed to backup Jan 02 12:47:33 ~pkg Jan 02 12:47:34 it has been said that pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ Jan 02 12:48:09 hm, wtf is kernel-maemo? Jan 02 12:48:25 hmm, the kernel? Jan 02 12:48:34 no, that's kernel Jan 02 12:48:42 kernel-maemo is in extras Jan 02 12:48:48 ugh Jan 02 12:48:56 nfc Jan 02 12:49:00 (and it's older than dirt) Jan 02 12:49:05 lol Jan 02 12:49:21 and by older than dirt i mean a year old Jan 02 12:49:38 maybe some smartass ported maemo4 diablo kernel to extras repo? ;-P Jan 02 12:50:06 maybe it's the kernel-power before kernel-power was kernel-power Jan 02 12:50:12 it's got 22 versions Jan 02 12:50:20 might be Jan 02 12:50:30 who's maintainer? Jan 02 12:50:43 tanner Jan 02 12:50:48 KP Jan 02 12:50:50 yep, it's KP Jan 02 12:50:54 but old Jan 02 12:51:03 aaah I recall now Jan 02 12:51:11 the extras repo need a serious cleanup Jan 02 12:51:14 got stuck on builder, so he renamed the pkg Jan 02 12:52:00 nobody ever removed that old kernel pkg, and tbh I dunno if we should Jan 02 12:55:21 DocScrutinizer, I suggest keeping only the newest version of the package per repo Jan 02 12:55:39 for older stuff, you could always pull the source Jan 02 12:55:44 that's the newest version of that particular pkg Jan 02 12:56:23 I'm pondering if there are issues when removing it, since ^^^(see above) pkg got renamed Jan 02 12:57:02 meh, you'll just have to rebuild the apt lists then Jan 02 12:57:05 it's generally a poor idea to rename pkgs Jan 02 12:57:40 but if you do, you need to ponder possible issues with removing the old obsolete pkg Jan 02 12:57:45 DocScrutinizer05, let's just break things now so they're fixed in the future. The backup servers aren't live, so break things all you want. Jan 02 12:58:29 Oh, by the way, is every single Harmattan PR LEGACY backed up? Jan 02 12:58:31 first up, *I* can't do anything about it, generally and particularly not now Jan 02 12:58:41 that would be a massive waste of space, though Jan 02 12:59:06 oh yeah, it was a massive waste of space ;-D Jan 02 12:59:35 Damnit Nokia, just resign PR 001 as PR 999 and git 'er done already Jan 02 12:59:36 we only backed up the most recent versions, since downgrading not allowed on HARM anyway Jan 02 13:00:03 Downgrading? Feh! Even cross grading to lower PR LEGACY is barred Jan 02 13:00:20 yup Jan 02 13:00:38 anyway, that shit ate 750GB of our storage on backup server Jan 02 13:01:01 ugh. has exploring delta patches to LEGACY 001 been explored? Jan 02 13:01:02 with old versions it would've been >2TB Jan 02 13:01:09 yep Jan 02 13:01:22 compression factor ~0.6 Jan 02 13:01:30 :-o Jan 02 13:01:41 750GB, geez. Just for a <10MB change in a single 2GB file. Jan 02 13:01:54 indeed Jan 02 13:02:25 People who didn't flash to 001 will be railed pretty hard when they need to reflash and /don't/ have their firmware file Jan 02 13:04:03 meh, we got all the newest FW images Jan 02 13:04:41 we gotta cut the crap on that though Jan 02 13:04:42 so everybody can upgrade. If you wanna keep your obsolete version, you should keep the needed image to reflash though Jan 02 13:05:12 feels like a waste keeping 750GB of the same thing. Jan 02 13:05:48 DocScrutinizer05, how about keeping only 001, 005, and the highest non-chinese firmware, and one chinese firmware for those unlucky enough to flash that crap? Jan 02 13:07:20 DocScrutinizer05: instead of removing, move to extras-obsolete Jan 02 13:08:18 kerio: this idea has a certain appeal, but also some downsides Jan 02 13:08:34 or even just keep the .debs around for storage purposes Jan 02 13:09:07 kerio: we'll deal with that *later* Jan 02 13:09:11 k Jan 02 13:09:31 for now that's so much way down on my todo, i can't even see it with a telescope Jan 02 13:09:54 oh, I was going to suggest unifying all the Extras-* into one single Extras, but some users say that some Devel packages are broken. Jan 02 13:10:54 no changes on infra setup right now. We do migration and backup, and we got not a second to spare for any changes Jan 02 13:11:11 ah. Jan 02 13:11:33 Well, in the months after Maemo.org changes hands, as I understand it, the fat-trimming starts, right? Jan 02 13:11:56 the migration nightmare is already more than I could digest on a extended period of time Jan 02 13:12:13 right Jan 02 13:12:35 this will be spring the closest though Jan 02 13:13:26 so exactly which pieces of infrastructure are being migrated and which (if any) are going to disappear? Jan 02 13:13:44 all. none (so the plan) Jan 02 13:14:36 if only since we got no time to decide what's dispensable Jan 02 13:14:40 so the full contents of http://repository.maemo.org/ will be migrated? Jan 02 13:14:49 sure Jan 02 13:14:53 ok :) Jan 02 13:15:09 Hurrian: to be fair, "unifying" the extras- repos means deleting everything except extras-devel Jan 02 13:15:35 kerio, pretty much, yeah Jan 02 13:16:04 for now FUNDING is our main problem Jan 02 13:16:31 If I wasn't between jobs and low on cash myself, I would donate to the cause somehow... Jan 02 13:17:05 not for the hosting (though colocation as designed by Nokia and donated as a gift to HF board will not exactly be cheap) but for professional adminsitration aka a fulltime sysop Jan 02 13:17:49 so far Nokia paid Nemein for that Jan 02 13:18:18 would any of you be willing to do a fulltime admin job for maybe 500EUR/month? Jan 02 13:18:21 just asking Jan 02 13:19:05 * kerio would, but probably isn't capable of and has no qualifications and no experience Jan 02 13:19:11 ok ok, maybe 50% part time Jan 02 13:19:49 though not during actual migration chaos, which will stay for at least 2 more months Jan 02 13:20:41 yeah, what kerio said: professional grade server admin qualification mandatory Jan 02 13:21:07 I dont have the right qualifications either Jan 02 13:21:30 board got 2kbuks of donations, which could suffice til end of this month Jan 02 13:21:40 bucks* Jan 02 13:21:43 that and I am not in the right part of the world anyway :) Jan 02 13:22:00 part of the world is irrelevant Jan 02 13:22:04 ok Jan 02 13:22:21 but qualification is Jan 02 13:22:37 huh, the openpandora is pretty much a n900 Jan 02 13:22:46 you'd take responsibility to not mess up an infra that several thousand users rely on Jan 02 13:22:58 only qualification I have is a computer science degree on the wall Jan 02 13:23:01 but with dual analogs Jan 02 13:23:13 which these days doesn't seem to mean much to most employers :( Jan 02 13:24:15 one unemployed sysadmin here too with all kinds of certificates that don't mean shit to anyone anymore Jan 02 13:24:40 Skry: you're sysadmin? Jan 02 13:24:52 Skry: you're unemployed? Jan 02 13:25:00 yeah x2 Jan 02 13:25:07 * joga employed sysadmin with no certificates whatsoever Jan 02 13:25:18 please send a mail to council@maemo.org Jan 02 13:25:20 though I've been doing something completely different for quite alot of years now Jan 02 13:26:19 well, system administration is like cycling Jan 02 13:26:36 My mission right now is to continue to do whatever I can to make the N900 a better mobile device Jan 02 13:26:43 eventually you end up using drugs Jan 02 13:26:44 and to continue with what reverse engineering and work I am able to do Jan 02 13:27:00 offering sysop service on a professional level, your "CV"/qualifications and amount of time you could dedicate to "keeping server kernel up to date" and the wages you ask for that (we won't probably accept volunteers for free, since responsibility is lower without any payment) Jan 02 13:27:42 Once I can get in touch, I will work with Pali to get the local changes to the CBSMS widget into the CSSU tree Jan 02 13:28:04 i.e. work with him to find code that displays correct output for me but does not break for others Jan 02 13:28:30 jonwil: please discuss it on #maemo-ssu Jan 02 13:29:11 well Pali did all the changes in question so once he pops his head in there I can discuss it :) Jan 02 13:29:12 not that it's off topic here, but there are some guys that are only in that other chan Jan 02 13:29:40 nothing really to discuss as such until Pali shows up :) Jan 02 13:29:52 also odds are those guys over there know about pali's ETA Jan 02 13:30:04 DocScrutinizer05: it's more like "keeping webserver up to date, php not crashing/hogging 100% CPU, and making sure that autobuilder doesn't choke on packages" Jan 02 13:30:57 Hurrian: for that we even hope to find "sub-sysops" resp service maintainers that have no root access but do specialized tasks Jan 02 13:31:03 volunteers Jan 02 13:31:40 So is this all running on a LAMP stack? or something else? Jan 02 13:31:58 DocScrutinizer05, so main sysadmin does the bare metal, and sub-admins do the individual services (downloads,repo,talk,wiki)? Jan 02 13:32:06 meh, that's a set of 2 or 3 dedicated servers running like 12 VMs Jan 02 13:32:26 Hurrian: that's the idea Jan 02 13:32:38 whoa, whoa, whoa, three servers? 12 VMs? Jan 02 13:32:54 yup :-) Jan 02 13:33:00 ...why? Jan 02 13:33:13 that's what Nokia donates to board Jan 02 13:33:36 cool, let's sell those and buy a VPS Jan 02 13:33:42 kerio, no! Jan 02 13:33:44 :D Jan 02 13:33:52 now you maybe understand why we need a professional sysop Jan 02 13:33:54 It's better to run our own hardware. Jan 02 13:34:08 I'm not sure if I want to take responsibility of this magnitude, especially when I'm basically in a situation where I cant accept any payment since government is going to grab it anyways, I could however volunteer on some minor admin stuff at some point. Jan 02 13:34:39 pretty welcome Jan 02 13:34:44 send a mail, please Jan 02 13:34:57 I'll do that Jan 02 13:35:03 you could become sysop of one of the VM for example Jan 02 13:35:14 hmm, I guess a single dual LGA 2011 machine with maxed RAM, and shittonnes of SATA cards, and a large bay of drives would better serve M.O's needs Jan 02 13:35:30 >1 physical machine is pretty inconvenient Jan 02 13:35:33 probably Jan 02 13:35:58 DocScrutinizer05, downside is, a balls-out machine like that would easily blow 3000 USD Jan 02 13:36:13 half of which are for the mainboard and CPUs alone Jan 02 13:36:24 Nokia donating hw Jan 02 13:36:24 afaik the servers from nokia are pretty beefy Jan 02 13:36:35 indeed Jan 02 13:37:16 http://www.fujitsu.com/fi/products/computing/servers/primergy/rack/rx300/ Jan 02 13:37:40 hmm, so Nokia literally pulled the machines from Nemein and shipped them off to wherever HF will colo them? Jan 02 13:38:31 friggin overkill if you ask me, but... Jan 02 13:39:16 Hurrian: nope, Nokia paid Nemein to buy those rx300 and install them somewhere colo, then hand all the shite to HF Jan 02 13:39:42 colo alone will probably kill us Jan 02 13:40:10 whoa, Nokia bought Sandy Bridge EP servers? Jan 02 13:40:24 those are a lot newer than I thought the Maemo.org servers ran on. Jan 02 13:40:52 Did they move them to new servers or something? IIRC Maemo.org ran on Core 2 Quad-generation Xeons sometime back Jan 02 13:40:55 well, that's been the suggestion for HW to buy, on some "internal" paper by Nemein/Nokia/whomever Jan 02 13:41:22 Hurrian: those are brand new irons Jan 02 13:41:32 not even installed yet Jan 02 13:42:35 sidenote: half of what I post here is unconfirmed hearsay, I'm not much more in any information-loop than any of you Jan 02 13:42:36 That's nice. With all the beef behind that thing, one server really is enough. Jan 02 13:42:49 ah. Jan 02 13:43:09 Hurrian: well, we're not complaining about having more servers ofc Jan 02 13:43:19 Well, hopefully Nokia drops us a new server, and doesn't simply pull the running servers off the rack at Nemein. Jan 02 13:43:23 yes we are, colo will kill us Jan 02 13:43:27 D: Jan 02 13:44:16 cheap colo is like 200 bucks per month for a 1HE 500W rack Jan 02 13:44:57 and I'm not all that sure Nemein found the cheapest colo they could get on this planet either Jan 02 13:45:48 and once some hw emits blue magic smoke on one of those irons, we're seriously doomed Jan 02 13:46:27 on-site hands is like 30 bucks for 15 minutes Jan 02 13:46:31 DocScrutinizer05: that's why you get a good colo location Jan 02 13:46:50 oh, that's driving distance for some admin or longtime maemo.org member Jan 02 13:47:06 HAH! Jan 02 13:47:36 I've had horrible things happen with colos that had shit utilities, e.g. cooling Jan 02 13:47:51 it's much more reassuring to be able to see the server in the first place Jan 02 13:47:55 honestly, getting a dedicated server from a hoster is waaaay cjeaper and more manageable than any colo Jan 02 13:48:42 this HW donation by Nokia been a poisoned gift, in my book Jan 02 13:48:45 sell servers, buy hookers^H^H^H^H^Hsting Jan 02 13:49:08 exactly why not just sell and buy hosting? saves a great deal of trouble+costs Jan 02 13:49:10 kerio: actually an option I ponder Jan 02 13:49:27 did nokia buy the servers already? Jan 02 13:49:50 DocScrutinizer05, dedis get logarithmically expensive once you're above Core i5+16GB RAM-class servers Jan 02 13:50:12 but Nokia paid Nemein to migrate shite to colo heavy duty Iron they paid for, and then donate that to HF. Only after that we can ponder our options Jan 02 13:50:32 kerio: Nemein did Jan 02 13:50:47 sell the servers back to Nemein and transfer things into a hoster Jan 02 13:51:01 kerio: Nokia isn't doing such stuff, they hire service to get it done Jan 02 13:51:08 hm Jan 02 13:51:25 i mean if they are willing to do so then it won't take more than a day or two to migrate everything over Jan 02 13:51:59 thedead1440: that's the most favorite plan in parts of Board and Council right now Jan 02 13:52:29 in parts? that means numerous discussions resulting in 0 results as usual? Jan 02 13:52:41 hmm, yup Jan 02 13:52:53 :S Jan 02 13:53:07 let me guess you must be the only one in favour of that? Jan 02 13:53:15 well, since we got no quotations on anything, not even colo costs yet, we're just handwaving Jan 02 13:53:31 why no quotes on colo yet? Jan 02 13:53:38 nfc Jan 02 13:54:10 I'm talking to Bergie since ~3h ago, I hope things start to move there as well Jan 02 13:54:44 Boerd is approaching things the business stale Jan 02 13:54:49 style* Jan 02 13:55:08 sometimes that doesn't help to speed up communications Jan 02 13:55:19 that's my take on that Jan 02 13:55:43 well it seems they really think they are *replacing* Nokia for maemo.org in all ways Jan 02 13:56:11 DocScrutinizer05, if the colo costs really are crushingly huge, then I guess Maemo.org can be split across multiple midrange VPSes Jan 02 13:56:33 so I started talking to co-hackers in private, on a low-official non-bureaucracy level Jan 02 13:57:00 Hurrian: sure Jan 02 13:57:09 Hurrian: actually 2 servers is more than enough for all maemo.org contents including TMO; the costs are cheaper than a VPS when storage is taken into account Jan 02 13:57:50 thedead1440, ah, right, I forgot how huge Maemo.org really was Jan 02 13:58:18 heck, TMO's DB is apparently 1TB, according to Reggie Jan 02 13:58:18 I'm already paying a 'small' dedicated server where we set up a backup-hot-standby system to kick in whan plan A fails Jan 02 13:58:19 Hetzener's 50Eur plan for a dedicated server X2 is all thats ever needed Jan 02 13:58:29 Hurrian: no its 12GB not 1TB Jan 02 13:58:38 oh Jan 02 13:59:12 well i saw that on the ML Jan 02 13:59:27 there are contradicting infos Jan 02 13:59:32 regarding tmo Jan 02 13:59:56 you mean on the size? Jan 02 14:00:05 I for one would rather believe the 12GB figure Jan 02 14:00:07 i saw that 12GB thing directly from Reggie on ML Jan 02 14:00:30 yup, on a later post though he uttered something different iirc Jan 02 14:00:49 maybe that's been the total size of storage on his server then Jan 02 14:00:52 iirc he said later on ~400GB which was for traffic Jan 02 14:01:01 :nod: Jan 02 14:01:11 and ~10k mails per week Jan 02 14:01:30 which in all honesty are very small Jan 02 14:01:33 mail setup will be a PITA Jan 02 14:01:34 man, TMO really needs to be condensed, unfortunately it could take man-decades to do so Jan 02 14:01:54 Hurrian: that's the point Jan 02 14:02:25 for now hosting isn't our problem, manpower is Jan 02 14:02:48 for the transition and all? Jan 02 14:02:50 Nokia afaik paying for January&February hosting Jan 02 14:03:00 so its extended again? Jan 02 14:03:12 yep, for migration and consolidation and all that stuff Jan 02 14:03:35 so what exactly actually was supposed to go offline on 31/12? Jan 02 14:03:49 thedead1440: nope, they seem to pay for the *new* infra, but only for 2 months Jan 02 14:03:59 oh Jan 02 14:04:14 the old infra was supposed to be already down Jan 02 14:04:36 servers with maemo and other Nokia proprietary stuff all mixed up on them Jan 02 14:04:36 ah ic Jan 02 14:05:30 hmm, over the next few months there really needs to be a community effort to document all the shit, throw it on the wiki, categorize it properly, then archive the current TMO Jan 02 14:05:44 Nemein right now migrating everything to vservers they provide, to buy them time to finish the new rx300 servers and then migrate again the vservers to those Jan 02 14:07:15 then hand over the rx300 irons to HF, and then we might migrate a third time :-o Jan 02 14:07:38 * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks Jan 02 14:08:32 Anyway RX300 irons are paid for hw and for 2 months hosting, and Nokia pays the migration effort until handover to HF Jan 02 14:09:30 and there's preety much nuttin we can do to change any detail of that process until RX300 get handed over to HF Jan 02 14:10:39 I managed to negotiate with Nemein for a vserver to host TMO on it, that will live on same location as the rest of *.m.o infra, wherever that is right now and in the future Jan 02 14:11:06 at least I think I did achieve to negotiate that - not entirely sure Jan 02 14:12:01 tmo is hosted by Reggie on his own server and basically unrelated to rest of *.m.o infra so far. Reggie will tear down the tmo server on 2013-01-20 Jan 02 14:12:26 efforts to migrate tmo are ongoing Jan 02 14:15:08 meanwhile I try to figure how we might manage to manage Jan 02 14:16:46 since I feel somebody needs to care about that, and HF appointed me for your humble maemo.org infra administration-coordinator Jan 02 14:17:12 Doc: Now you can ban people from maemo.org! Jan 02 14:17:20 I'm however no real sysop, lacking qualification Jan 02 14:17:23 Doc: And you can ban whole domains too! Jan 02 14:17:32 lol Jan 02 14:17:54 with great power comes great responsibility Jan 02 14:18:18 with great power comes fun and enjoyment of the macabre Jan 02 14:18:20 RST38h: indeed that's my primary duty: creating accounts for sysops and maintainers Jan 02 14:19:10 Doc: Yes, creating reliable network of minions,fighting for your benevolent attention Jan 02 14:19:13 think of me as the guy carring THE suitcase next to US president Jan 02 14:19:31 think of me as THE suitcase! Jan 02 14:19:50 where's your red button? Jan 02 14:20:02 you don't wanna know, no, really Jan 02 14:20:13 :-P Jan 02 14:20:31 * RST38h just watched DrWho Christmas special Jan 02 14:21:11 * DocScrutinizer05 just notced it's already almost sunset, and no shopping done yet Jan 02 14:21:29 Moffat is being self-ironic. The movie literally drawns in tears, and "winter is coming" is mentioned at least twice Jan 02 14:21:46 DocScrutinizer05: I think "benevolent operator for life" sounds better Jan 02 14:21:59 BOFL? Jan 02 14:22:14 kinda like ROFL Jan 02 14:22:50 Lord Keyholder Jan 02 14:23:39 since I'm not really competent to do any operator job Jan 02 14:24:10 I'm competent to hand out keys and scrutinize what they're used for Jan 02 14:24:31 and to kick asses if somebody goes haywire Jan 02 14:24:45 sounds about right Jan 02 14:25:42 there's lots of qualified MO members who can run one simple task, and check on it every hour or so Jan 02 14:26:10 come to think of it we need a watchdog of sorts for each individual task Jan 02 14:26:13 that's basically the idea about getting maintainer volunteers Jan 02 14:26:21 and maybe even sub-sysops Jan 02 14:26:48 not entirely clear on the latter Jan 02 14:27:21 so basically, much like what Reggie does for tmo, and [Cross] Fade for the builder Jan 02 14:27:25 we already apponted chem|st for maintainer of tmo Jan 02 14:27:46 :nod: Jan 02 14:28:31 chem|st accepted to do low-effort sub-sysop tasks like keeping an eye on CPU load and syslog as well Jan 02 14:29:34 with such an arrangement we might not need sub-sysops, since the heavy lifting (like running system updates etc) might get done by paid main sysop then, also for the VM like tmo Jan 02 14:30:28 hmm, we need to part out some more stuff, such as maintenance of the front page (Midgard, was it?), garage, wiki and all the small forgotten pages Jan 02 14:31:00 yep, we need a lot of volunteers for that Jan 02 14:31:48 for maintenance (== user account), not for sysop on that particular VM (==root account on that VM) Jan 02 14:32:25 that could be handled easily enough with user groups Jan 02 14:33:01 sure, I'm aware of the technical details - at least as much as needed to figure how our sysop will set it up Jan 02 14:34:14 for now and for purpose of public discussion it's sufficient to state that those positions are NOT sysop positions but maintainer positions Jan 02 14:34:20 and we need lots of maintainers Jan 02 14:35:36 meh, I *really* don't see why this friggin document wasn't posted to the public, so I'll do that now Jan 02 14:36:52 hmm (c) Ferenc Szekely, Niels Breet 2012-05-25 Jan 02 14:37:01 I first have to ask for permission Jan 02 14:37:39 On with the pitchfors! (c) maemo.org userbase 2007-2012 Jan 02 14:37:42 pitchforks Jan 02 14:38:05 ooh did I say 12 VM? Jan 02 14:38:21 18 ;-D Jan 02 14:39:23 maemo.org maemo.org apps.formeego.org wiki.maemo.org bugs.maemo.org stage.maemo.org -- static.maemo.org lists.maemo.org maintenance.maemo.org scratchbox.org dns.maemo.org repository.maemo.org test.maemo.org vcs.maemo.org garage.maemo.org drop.maemo.org db.maemo.org (DMZ only) Jan 02 14:40:10 DocScrutinizer05, should maintainer positions be open, where do I shoot a mail? Jan 02 14:40:25 council@maemo.org Jan 02 14:40:54 see ^^^ for possible domains (rough figure) Jan 02 14:41:14 each a VM, which probably needs a maintainer Jan 02 14:41:54 how will we call the three servers? Jan 02 14:41:57 we need funny names Jan 02 14:41:58 DocScrutinizer05, how about tablets-dev? Jan 02 14:42:11 not even listed in there Jan 02 14:42:25 tablets-dev is .nokia.com isn't it Jan 02 14:42:30 yep Jan 02 14:42:31 NFC on my side Jan 02 14:42:45 yeah, it's Nokia, but the downloads should be moved to a maemo.org domain Jan 02 14:42:51 assuming we get the redistrib rights Jan 02 14:42:54 (do we?) Jan 02 14:43:04 basically Nokia isn't supposed to take that domain/service down, no? Jan 02 14:43:06 theres a lot of things to move into .maemo.org but no idea on where we stand on that Jan 02 14:43:32 the thread is there; the list of things is there but whether that list has been passed onto Nokia as stated earlier is unknown Jan 02 14:43:33 DocScrutinizer05, that needs to be confirmed Jan 02 14:43:47 if they tear down everything that isn't Lumia, we're boned Jan 02 14:43:47 we got backups just in case - though we don't know about their completeness Jan 02 14:44:04 ^^^ Jan 02 14:44:17 we need to ask Nokia for explicit permission to host the Maemo and Harmattan firmware files Jan 02 14:45:01 we need to ask Nokia about WTF they goona do at large with all that stuff Jan 02 14:45:44 alas no contacts to Nokia that I knew of Jan 02 14:45:50 should that get sorted out though, I'd be glad to watch over the firmware files and SDK rootstraps Jan 02 14:45:52 DocScrutinizer05: that was the explicit purpose of that thread which ivgalvez had asked for Jan 02 14:46:49 he had said Board needs a list of whatever is not on .maemo.org to be drawn up so that the Board can ask for re-distribution rights... Not heard anything about whether the list has been submitted etc... Jan 02 14:46:54 thedead1440: sorry I'm lost in white noise with all the mails and posts on tmo. I'm simply not catching up Jan 02 14:47:28 the thread where you posted whatever is backed up was meant to be the thread where a list is drawn up for content not on maemo.org Jan 02 14:47:45 :nod: Jan 02 14:48:12 if you see the list has been drawn up but since quite sometime nobody has mentioned if something else too is not on maemo.org and is missing in that list Jan 02 14:48:26 dunno if board/ivgalvez is following up on that thread, or if anybody noted the tablets-dev stuff on it Jan 02 14:48:40 it's simply not on top of my todo list right now Jan 02 14:48:41 tablets-dev was covered in that list since day 0 Jan 02 14:48:50 i wouldn't miss that :p Jan 02 14:49:18 it sounds like ivgalvez took that topic Jan 02 14:49:34 ivgalvez was following that thread quite closely but what has happened since ~10 days is anybody's guess... Jan 02 14:49:41 I can't control the work of everybody else in council and board Jan 02 14:50:35 I started on the premise I got 2h per WEEK to dedicate to that councilor position Jan 02 14:50:44 you can't control but maybe you can ask the Board if re-distribution for the contents on that list have been requested and if yes whats the status Jan 02 14:51:19 board@maemo.org CC community ML Jan 02 14:51:47 "on behalf of Joerg(councilor)" if you like Jan 02 14:51:54 ok Jan 02 14:51:55 DocScrutinizer05: if you could CONTROL the work of everybody else in council, it'd be a dictatorship :D Jan 02 14:52:36 yep Jan 02 14:52:39 o/ bbl Jan 02 14:53:27 from where I sit, I see 4 things myself that would raise issues with regards to redistribution, the first is the firmware files (i.e. the stuff on tablets-dev.nokia.com that you can only get if you enter your device IMEI), the second is the development stuff on tablets-dev.nokia.org (VMs, flasher tools, SDK installers etc), the third is the nokia-binaries stuff in the SDK repos and the... Jan 02 14:53:29 ...fourth is the full set of device package files in the device SSU repository (currently hosted at downloads.maemo.nokia.com if I am reading the apt source lists correctly) Jan 02 14:56:12 DocScrutinizer05: email sent... Jan 02 14:56:41 thanks, please doublecheck if we got the appropriate backups anyway Jan 02 14:56:51 that list is covered Jan 02 14:56:58 double and triple checked :D Jan 02 14:57:05 cool :-D Jan 02 14:57:12 you da man! Jan 02 14:57:18 brkn ;) Jan 02 14:57:26 :-) he too Jan 02 14:57:58 cya l8r friend Jan 02 14:58:07 see ya Jan 02 15:31:12 didn't nokia give permission to redistribute stuff like that, as long as it's to use in N900s only? Jan 02 15:42:06 hi there... can anyone help me with some strange sdhc issues? i'm using a new sandisk ultra 32gb class 10 sd card on power51. as soon as the disk uses several partition the kernel throws -110 transmission errors to dmesg. as well it's impossible to boot nemo form u-boot (same error). writing to a single 32gb fat32 partition seems to work flawlessly... Jan 02 16:03:29 wirr: try to write a *huge* file to that card. It's a common hw failure pattern for such errors to appear only after several 100MB to maybe even GB of storage used up Jan 02 16:05:26 I once had a 16GB that failed with write error on a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/card bs=100k, after some 50..500MB transferred Jan 02 16:10:23 DocScrutinizer05: that's what I'm trying right now... exported card using backupmenu and write 32gb of random data to it. it's been running for 40 minutes or so without any problems so far... Jan 02 16:12:47 random data is one good test pattern, writing strictly sequential like dd does is another different good one Jan 02 16:13:15 also on-board might yield higher datarate than via mass storage Jan 02 16:15:27 the controller might be over-optimized for FAT fs Jan 02 16:16:03 of course sandisk never thought you'd create several partitions on that card Jan 02 16:17:30 e.g they might have a dedicated RAM buffer for the FAT (the file allocation table), plus a separate storage area on flash Jan 02 16:18:25 anything not meeting the usage pattern created by fat32 fs might fail to speed optimizations not kicking in Jan 02 16:20:32 hmm... this would mean there is one dedicated area for one FAT, and slower speeds for any other fs? still this shouldn't produce transmission errors for partitions != FAT or with their tables not in the first few sectors, am I wrong? Jan 02 16:21:17 DocScrutinizer05: usually sandisk is better than that Jan 02 16:22:49 nfc, just sharing some general thoughts. Only sandisk knows what's going on inside their card and how some hw defect might show up Jan 02 16:23:21 mhm... had no probs on card reader, but the same pattern on two different n900s Jan 02 16:24:07 swap the card, get another one Jan 02 16:27:52 DocScrutinizer05: HF should fund the R&D for a ram-based uSD Jan 02 18:15:44 so, Ubuntu is now launching their mobile OS. Wonder if the apps will be easy to port to maemo Jan 02 18:45:13 my N900 broke! the keylock slider, the little notch thingy on it has vanished, it's totally flush with the case now :o Jan 02 18:46:12 wat Jan 02 18:46:16 oh Jan 02 19:05:29 urgh. This is getting bad. Every time I have a phone call (call, receive, whatever), the screen goes black 90% of the time. I use the hardware screen unlocker sometimes, but then it still sometimes goes black again after half a second or so Jan 02 19:05:55 is there, by any chance a way to tell it "under no circumstances go black whilst a call is being made?" Jan 02 19:06:06 it would be a tklock thing i think Jan 02 19:06:18 i also get that sometimes, but i assumed it was fmg's fault Jan 02 19:06:19 :3 Jan 02 19:06:44 I got this before the new tklock too, and it was just as bad then, I'm afraid :) Jan 02 19:07:10 a little bit as if the proximity sensor (or what was its name) is getting confused Jan 02 20:01:55 maemo.orginfrastructureforHildonFoundation.pdf Jan 02 20:01:59 oops Jan 02 20:21:48 while true; do cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ; sleep 1 ; done Jan 02 20:35:19 it says "closed" all the time Jan 02 20:35:31 and, uh, "open" from time to time too Jan 02 20:36:53 that's cool. mine only says "closed" when my hand gets within about 1cm Jan 02 20:39:49 it seems to get better sometimes when I squeeze the display near the sensor Jan 02 20:40:36 anyone know if you can force a N900 to detect a sd card Jan 02 20:40:36 perhaps it has moved too far from the glass, and it thinks it my ear? Jan 02 20:41:36 the magnet for back open/close detection is gone on this back and I can't replace it easily Jan 02 20:41:47 yeah, it gets definitely better after a "squeeze" Jan 02 20:41:59 (most of the time) Jan 02 20:43:42 screen protector covering it? Jan 02 20:44:07 nah, screen protector is cut nicely around it Jan 02 20:44:19 it's right in the corner of it Jan 02 20:44:42 but well, this is the flex cable I have inserted there, when the factory one broke Jan 02 20:45:07 maybe that I let some dirt slip in, or such? Jan 02 20:45:31 iirc, proximity sensor is part of it Jan 02 20:47:37 I wonder if I can replace it with a static file saying "open" :D Jan 02 20:48:31 it should get back to normal after a reboot anywa Jan 02 20:58:29 tadzik: I suspect dust or dirt Jan 02 20:59:07 yay, disassembly again Jan 02 20:59:32 also: I know for some people usb port gets loose, is it also known to happen to audio jacks slots? Jan 02 21:00:09 audio jack is spring loaded, it basically can't get loose Jan 02 21:00:39 well, it seems as if the jack plug is loose inside it Jan 02 21:01:17 I was wondering if it's a bad thing, but in the end it appears that it's the headphones which start to break near the jack plug. As always Jan 02 21:01:20 well, then it has too much free gap to the bay in case where it sits in Jan 02 21:02:16 I guess it's not a good business model for headphone manufacturers to make jack plugs that don't break every few months Jan 02 21:02:43 swapping for a new AV-receptacle is a 10$ 15 minutes operation at any nokia care point with own repair center Jan 02 21:31:34 ~seen pali Jan 02 21:31:44 pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 5d 10h 11m 32s ago, saying: 'freemangordon, do you know state of portrait keyboard?'. Jan 02 21:31:45 ~seen infobot Jan 02 21:31:46 infobot is currently on #utos (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-doc (1d 19h 55m 49s) #botpark (1d 19h 55m 49s) ##t42 (1d 19h 55m 49s) #maemo (1d 19h 55m 49s) #fredlug (1d 19h 55m 49s) ##ols (1d 19h 55m 49s) #n9 (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-scf-dev (1d 19h 55m 49s) #flyspray (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-dev (1d 19h 55m 49s) #webos-internals (1d 19h 55m 49s) ... Jan 02 21:31:52 heh Jan 02 21:31:53 ~seen apt Jan 02 21:31:54 apt is currently on #debian (5d 1h 28m 9s) ##icf (5d 1h 28m 9s) #elive (5d 1h 28m 9s) #htc-linux (5d 1h 28m 9s) #kde (5d 1h 28m 9s) #wowroster (5d 1h 28m 9s) #openmoko (5d 1h 28m 9s) #slug (5d 1h 28m 9s) #lugwv (5d 1h 28m 9s) #openmoko-cdevel (5d 1h 28m 9s) #debian-france (5d 1h 28m 9s) #debianppc (5d 1h 28m 9s) #linuxpakistan (5d 1h 28m 9s) ... Jan 02 21:32:05 ~uptime Jan 02 21:32:17 no snarky message when you look for her? Jan 02 21:49:57 Hello, I have a problem with my N900 Jan 02 21:50:14 what? Jan 02 21:51:07 Three days ago, I snowboarded... Many times I fell down and my phone doesn't work Jan 02 21:51:31 It was in pocket in the jacket Jan 02 21:51:37 ... Jan 02 21:51:38 why? Jan 02 21:52:08 is it safe to assume that "doesn't work" means "doesn't turn on at all"? Jan 02 21:52:28 tadzik: yes Jan 02 21:52:39 lnxmen: did the pocket get wet? Jan 02 21:52:43 is/was it wet? Jan 02 21:52:48 bah, beaten to it Jan 02 21:53:06 No, pocket wasn't wet Jan 02 21:53:24 you said you fell... did you fall *on it*? Jan 02 21:53:25 anyway I keeped my phone in rice... Jan 02 21:53:40 lnxmen: rice does jack shit to absorb humidity Jan 02 21:54:47 kerio: *on it*.. it's difficult to say, pocket is above the heart Jan 02 21:55:18 were there any extreme temperatures? Jan 02 21:55:28 so when I fall I think my elbows protect the phone... Jan 02 21:55:36 you *hope* Jan 02 21:55:41 hm.. lens cover doesnt open fully anymore... and a spring belonging to kickstand fell out :) Jan 02 21:55:45 tadzik: No, 1-3C Jan 02 21:56:04 When you fall on a snowboard, your elbows are in front of your or behind you keeping you from falling too hard. Jan 02 21:56:17 then they hurt like seven helss Jan 02 21:56:46 Aye. Jan 02 21:56:49 infobot: #maemo snowboarding is a sport that kills your n900 Jan 02 21:56:50 okay, kerio Jan 02 21:56:53 ~snowboarding Jan 02 21:56:53 [snowboarding] a sport that kills your n900 Jan 02 21:56:57 alright Jan 02 21:57:21 lnxmen: did you try a different battery? Jan 02 21:57:28 No... Jan 02 21:57:31 can you see any damage from the outside? Jan 02 21:57:33 But I checked my battery Jan 02 21:57:40 It was 2.7V Jan 02 21:57:51 2.8 * Jan 02 21:58:07 ...so your battery is out of juice Jan 02 21:58:27 EDV1 is around 3.2 Jan 02 21:58:32 what Jan 02 21:58:51 so I should check it with another battery? Jan 02 21:59:35 yep Jan 02 21:59:46 if you're sure about your measurement Jan 02 21:59:54 kerio: N900 haven't any scratch Jan 02 22:00:09 a bl-5j goes from 4.2V to 3.2V, pretty much Jan 02 22:00:16 100% to 6% Jan 02 22:00:20 ~flatbatrecover Jan 02 22:00:21 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Jan 02 22:00:23 *kinda* Jan 02 22:01:46 DocScrutinizer05: correct? Jan 02 22:02:51 yep, correct Jan 02 22:02:53 I'll check the voltage one more time... Jan 02 22:03:07 flatbatrecover only works with genuine nokia fastcharger Jan 02 22:03:27 DocScrutinizer05: isn't 2.8 near the level where the cells get damaged? Jan 02 22:03:36 2.7V is pretty much where protection circuit inside battery kicks in Jan 02 22:03:59 kerio: :nod: ^^^ Jan 02 22:04:09 stupid protection circuits not allowing people to fuck up their batteries if they want :C Jan 02 22:04:32 ~batteryfaq Jan 02 22:04:34 well, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Jan 02 22:05:10 hmm Jan 02 22:05:20 Now Voltage is about 2.9 Jan 02 22:05:28 I found other battery Jan 02 22:05:39 which looks like bl-5j Jan 02 22:05:59 and voltage is 3.7 Jan 02 22:06:03 http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf Jan 02 22:06:28 So I will try with other battery Jan 02 22:06:32 p.5 Jan 02 22:07:41 p.9 "CT-N3650HX-1" Jan 02 22:08:49 p.14 >> 2.300±0.058 V Over-discharge detection voltage << Jan 02 22:09:22 of course that's not a BL-5J Jan 02 22:09:48 the basic operation should be rather similar Jan 02 22:10:08 I don't think so it's a battery fault Jan 02 22:10:16 when I want to charge it Jan 02 22:10:44 there is now orange? color Jan 02 22:10:54 solid orange? Jan 02 22:10:54 no* Jan 02 22:10:58 oh :( Jan 02 22:10:59 ~flatbatrecover Jan 02 22:10:59 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Jan 02 22:11:05 yes Jan 02 22:11:21 Nokia fatscharger! Jan 02 22:11:32 fast even Jan 02 22:11:32 DocScrutinizer05: is the "1 minute" to discharge everything? because it will require a lot more than that if you have a working bupbat Jan 02 22:12:09 hmm, not really Jan 02 22:12:39 it's to reset from e.g overvoltage cutout Jan 02 22:12:48 or dunnowhat Jan 02 22:13:39 lnxmen: will only work with original Nokia fastcharger Jan 02 22:14:06 and every standard musb charger with enough amps Jan 02 22:14:23 with a USB cable to PC, 3rd party chargers, or a broken charger, you don't see steady amber Jan 02 22:14:25 I have original charger Jan 02 22:14:41 soooooooo, basically the nokia fastcharger and very little else, yes Jan 02 22:15:17 and definition of nokia fast-charger is what? D+/D- shorted and 1000mA? Jan 02 22:15:28 yup, pretty much Jan 02 22:15:38 1.1A i think Jan 02 22:15:41 1+A Jan 02 22:15:44 or more, of course Jan 02 22:15:48 doesn't matter Jan 02 22:15:58 :nod: Jan 02 22:17:27 I guess your battery is broken maybe Jan 02 22:17:35 how many amps at 5V can you reasonably get from a wall socket? Jan 02 22:17:35 lnxmen: ^^^ Jan 02 22:17:49 kerio: UH?? Jan 02 22:18:11 kerio: enough to MELT the phone into a puddle of metal and burned plastic? Jan 02 22:18:20 I don't know any wall socket with 5V Jan 02 22:18:30 i meant with a transformer Jan 02 22:18:37 see above Jan 02 22:18:40 a reasonably-sized one Jan 02 22:18:46 that obviously depends on transformer Jan 02 22:18:49 kerio: i bought goclever wall charger 5V 2A Jan 02 22:18:49 DocScrutinizer05: ? Jan 02 22:19:13 lnxmen: hm? Jan 02 22:19:21 kerio: then it depends on your definiton of "reasonable" Jan 02 22:19:26 lnxmen: we're thinking broken battery Jan 02 22:19:28 lnxmen: I guess your battery is broken maybe Jan 02 22:19:39 or at best, a really depleted battery Jan 02 22:20:02 Hmm why? Jan 02 22:20:04 a broken battery might cause steady amber on flatbatrecover to never show up Jan 02 22:20:39 I have another battery, I checked with it - and it also doesn't work Jan 02 22:20:45 since bq24150 tries to charge, detects battery defect, and stops. takes ~1ms Jan 02 22:20:51 or 20 Jan 02 22:20:54 dunno Jan 02 22:21:10 lnxmen: :( Jan 02 22:21:14 ooh Jan 02 22:21:31 then you're facing *real* problems Jan 02 22:22:22 lnxmen: have you tried removing your sim and the uSD? Jan 02 22:22:29 yes Jan 02 22:22:38 you should check in PC's syslog when plugging your N900 with semi-decently charged battery to USB of PC Jan 02 22:22:41 there is no sim and no SD Jan 02 22:22:52 dmesg? Jan 02 22:23:02 hmm, should work too Jan 02 22:23:15 though i don't know a PC that doesn't have syslog Jan 02 22:23:23 my n900! Jan 02 22:23:44 okay, let's do it :D Jan 02 22:23:47 something /var/log/* Jan 02 22:23:59 either syslog, or messages Jan 02 22:24:11 other flenames are possible Jan 02 22:24:16 file* Jan 02 22:24:40 there should be some notification about N900 ROMBOOT Jan 02 22:24:47 detected on USB Jan 02 22:24:49 ROMBOOT? Jan 02 22:25:04 when you plug in the N900 in powered down state Jan 02 22:25:17 My N900 doesn't give me any signs of live ;d Jan 02 22:25:53 dmesg gives no informations about USB plugged device (N900) Jan 02 22:25:58 but I did it Jan 02 22:25:58 with a 'good' battery? on USB? Jan 02 22:26:18 yes, on USB, but with 'bad' battery ;d Jan 02 22:26:44 bad battery won't allow device to boot to any conscious state Jan 02 22:27:16 and good battery too Jan 02 22:27:31 it's must be hardware fault Jan 02 22:27:35 it* Jan 02 22:27:36 I'm not sure USB logs to dmesg Jan 02 22:27:50 hmm Jan 02 22:28:03 hmm Jan 02 22:28:31 I plugged game controler via USB Jan 02 22:28:51 and in dmesg I can see some informations about it Jan 02 22:30:00 Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.536116] usb 1-1: new high speed USB device number 13 using ehci_hcd Jan 02 22:30:02 Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651496] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0106 Jan 02 22:30:02 Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651505] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=34, Product=38, SerialNumber=0 Jan 02 22:30:04 Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651512] usb 1-1: Product: Nokia USB ROM Jan 02 22:30:06 Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651518] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Nokia Jan 02 22:30:32 When my N900 was working I had similar messages Jan 02 22:30:39 on inserting battery, after I wondered why it played dead bug on plugging USB to PC Jan 02 22:31:30 same moment I inserted battery, tail -f /var/log/messages spits out above lines Jan 02 22:31:49 it's this same messages like in dmesg Jan 02 22:32:53 you need a proper battery to test Jan 02 22:33:07 okay Jan 02 22:33:23 I still blame battery, and honestly I don't trust your replacement battery, even when it 'looks similar' Jan 02 22:33:27 tomorrow I'll try to arrange it Jan 02 22:34:34 the USB test has the advantage of not depending on powerbutton and rootfs Jan 02 22:35:17 what mean with USB test? Jan 02 22:35:27 the test you just did Jan 02 22:37:57 there's actually hardly any more basic test - except flatbatrecover which should always work, give battery, device and charger are OK Jan 02 22:38:34 the steady amber should come up at least shortly for any battery too low to boot to NOKIA bootscreen Jan 02 22:38:50 even if hardware is broken? Jan 02 22:39:03 even if CPU is defect, yes Jan 02 22:40:09 it's just one small chip (well actually 2) and battery nad USB port that are needed, and of course the LED Jan 02 22:40:51 an unplugged or broken flex cable between screen and body would also cause LED to not light up anymore Jan 02 22:42:09 but unless you inserted a credit card into the slot between keyboard and screen, it's hard to figure how that cable could get unplugged Jan 02 22:42:41 I hope you had no card of any kind in that pocket while skiing? Jan 02 22:44:13 yes, I had only N900 in pocket Jan 02 22:44:23 :nod: Jan 02 22:44:33 get a proper spare battery Jan 02 22:44:50 or try charging the one you have in another compatible phone Jan 02 22:45:00 5800 for example Jan 02 22:45:10 hmm Jan 02 22:46:44 but how battery could broke during falls? Jan 02 22:46:46 ^^^ iirc Jan 02 22:47:03 LiIon don't like hard impact Jan 02 22:47:12 also don't like cold Jan 02 22:47:30 2C? Is it cold for LiIon? Jan 02 22:47:46 2C is cold for humans! Jan 02 22:47:52 not really, but a 'weak' battery may break on it Jan 02 22:47:59 why were you outside in the snow instead of being on a warm beach? Jan 02 22:48:08 inside the jacket was more warm Jan 02 22:48:25 and I prespired Jan 02 22:48:29 whatever, check your battery Jan 02 22:48:39 okay Jan 02 22:48:48 2.7V also indicates fatal hw defect Jan 02 22:49:01 or a broken multimeter :) Jan 02 22:49:06 lol Jan 02 22:50:03 xD Jan 02 22:50:36 Anyway having Linux in phone is a wonderful thing :D Jan 02 22:51:04 you'll hardly find anybody arguing that, in here Jan 02 22:51:04 That's what some Android people claim too. Jan 02 22:52:13 I think it's mostly a matter of unix-ish userspace than linux itself Jan 02 22:52:26 *coffcoffBUSYBOXcoffcoff* Jan 02 22:52:44 lousybox <.< Jan 02 22:52:52 DocScrutinizer05: btw, i was reading a bit of lkml today Jan 02 22:53:05 apparently linus is getting annoyed at udev/systemd Jan 02 22:53:24 I'd like to get a consensus of what most of you are most excited about or interested in - FFOS, Android, Nemo, SailFish, Ubuntu Phone/Mobile? What do you see yourself running later this year or early next year? Jan 02 22:53:42 Theorbo: ffos? Jan 02 22:53:58 FireFox (I just included it because it is opensource) Jan 02 22:54:01 oh Jan 02 22:54:18 so far, i see myself running maemo fremantle Jan 02 22:54:26 :s Jan 02 22:55:47 I'm currently a Maemo user. I have ignored Harmattan because of Aegis. I was looking forward to SailFish but now I feel very confident it is going to be something controlled by the desires of Chinese parties that Jolla has involved itself with in wanting to be a major player. Jan 02 22:57:39 As for Ubuntu's Phone solution - I worry that Canonical is growing to become a company that can't be trusted with user private data. I think they have spent the last few years seducing the opensource community with a reliable, easy, stable solution and now they are going to go really commercial. I don't have a problem with commercial as long as the cards are laid on the table. Commercial, today, means selling of user data. Jan 02 22:58:30 What about circuit? Jan 02 22:58:40 Oh I agree with that so much. Jan 02 22:58:43 I'm kind of interested in Sailfish, but, well, if it were available that'd be great Jan 02 22:58:47 I have plugged charger and N900 is warm now Jan 02 22:59:04 "we'll show a phone in Q4 2012!". Oh, great, N950 running Nemo on steroids Jan 02 22:59:23 the ui is neat, agreed Jan 02 23:00:50 as for selling users' data, I've heard this saying "if you're not paying for the product, then you're actually the product someone pays for", or something like that Jan 02 23:00:59 Theorbo, the solution is simple - make sure that Canonical doesn't use a Canonical search API Jan 02 23:01:16 make it directly call Amazon/Google/*'s search API, but not Canonical Jan 02 23:01:44 much like the situation on Android, don't trust your manufacturer with your data Jan 02 23:01:47 Hurrian - I worry that parts of the platform will be close source Jan 02 23:01:59 I worry that those parts could hide worrying things. Jan 02 23:02:24 I am a security consultant. I have worked in a few industries. You should think less of tech companies than you do. Jan 02 23:02:41 user data is becoming the new prime realestate Jan 02 23:02:46 indeed, it has been for some time Jan 02 23:02:55 Theorbo, well, let's see how many components are closed, first. Jan 02 23:03:49 If canonical was open and just put amazon, netflix, and ebay shortcuts et cetera on the default install I would not mind in the slightest. Jan 02 23:03:52 It's obvious Canonical wants to go commercial, but to be evil or not is to be seen. Jan 02 23:04:15 If they got paid to include FireFox OS as the default or similar - I don't care Jan 02 23:04:38 If they start hiding things in code, I get nervous Jan 02 23:04:46 And I get nervous that I won't know for sure. Jan 02 23:05:00 Theorbo: and that's why you look for the binary blobs first Jan 02 23:05:50 We need something like Mer/Nemo that opensource user will actually put their wallets behind enough that it produces a solid, usable day to day OS Jan 02 23:05:52 If their fancy UI is still based on desktop Unity+Qt though, it'll be open, and then you can just rip out the binary bits with apt-get purge. Jan 02 23:06:31 That sounds like Sailfish. Jan 02 23:06:59 (although, the binary components of which are still unknown) Jan 02 23:09:15 well, Unity actually doesn't use Qt on the desktop :) Jan 02 23:09:35 I was wondering that one too Jan 02 23:09:41 even for the 2d stuff Jan 02 23:09:53 they switched to lvmpipe for that IIRC Jan 02 23:10:07 how exactly is Qt/QML integrated with GTK3 stuff Jan 02 23:11:46 Hurrian - was your statement "That sounds like Sailfish" referring to my statement? Jan 02 23:11:57 gordon - nice name Jan 02 23:12:10 freemangordon: not at all ? :P Jan 02 23:12:12 :) Jan 02 23:13:53 M4rtinK: that wouldn't make sense :) Jan 02 23:16:30 Theorbo: yup. Jan 02 23:17:48 Theorbo: you know who Gordon Freeman is? Jan 02 23:17:57 I disagree. I think Jolla fancies itself as a developer company but I think that those at the top have been seduced by "business power" and are very involved with in China in a way that I'm not thrilled with. Jan 02 23:18:53 as in putting interception capabilities into the OS, etc? Jan 02 23:19:00 I think that they are painted as this MeeGo revival team based around opensource lovers. I think that they are actually willing to do anything to make grounds in market share in China. Jan 02 23:19:26 At least those at the top. Jan 02 23:20:31 All that I am saying is that I don't like the path they are taking and that to be a success in China (when starting in China) often involves less than noble concessions. Jan 02 23:21:04 Theorbo: well, if those two vendors are not to be trusted, then how about GNOME3 (is mutter fixed for GLES yet?) Jan 02 23:21:35 GNOME3 + Mer providing the middleware Jan 02 23:22:17 well, the more open, the harder is it to build in some interception backdoors into software Jan 02 23:22:33 doesn't help with hardware too much :) Jan 02 23:23:11 I am talking about many things Jan 02 23:23:13 Hurrian: mutter uses Clutter Jan 02 23:23:30 Clutter runns on both OpenGL & OpenGL ES Jan 02 23:23:41 :nod: Jan 02 23:24:04 I find it a bit obsoleted by QML though Jan 02 23:25:01 M4rtinK: my experience with QML is close to nothing, but I have some concerns about its performance Jan 02 23:25:17 M4rtinK, as for the hardware blobs, only the closed radio firmware is worrying Jan 02 23:25:38 yes, we were told Qt5 will be the next best thing after the sliced bread, but still Jan 02 23:26:47 They even have their data centre in China now. Jan 02 23:27:12 When I execute apt-get, I don't like that path passing through the Great Wall. Jan 02 23:27:28 (sorry - pkg_add - BSD user here) Jan 02 23:28:21 wait, Jolla hosts in China now? Jan 02 23:28:32 If I am not mistaken, that is the plan. Jan 02 23:29:10 And if you would like to argue about compiling form source et cetera, I don't imagine everyone is intending to do that even if it will be easily done Jan 02 23:29:11 freemangordon: well clutter seems to handle large images better Jan 02 23:29:35 I am hugely concerned with the hardware aspect as well Jan 02 23:30:10 freemangordon: maybe slower but still handles them fine, while in QML it degrades both visually and in performance once (i assume) max texture size is reached Jan 02 23:31:42 M4rtinK: I guess that depends on driver, but still, if clutter can do it, why QML can't. Speaking for Fremantle ofc Jan 02 23:32:01 Theorbo: well, let's see what parts of the OS require user data. Jan 02 23:32:05 don't worry about hw, make them send my a prototype and schematics Jan 02 23:32:09 ;-D Jan 02 23:32:12 yep, my experience is also from fremantle Jan 02 23:32:23 DocScrutinizer05: but you have one :P Jan 02 23:32:26 and then, you know, not use them. Jan 02 23:33:00 because as we all know from Android and iOS, apps for websites (Facebook/Skype/G+) aren't exactly secure. Jan 02 23:33:01 DocScrutinizer05: iirc you have n950, aren't you? Jan 02 23:33:06 freemangordon: one of the future Jollaphones? nah! Jan 02 23:33:29 DocScrutinizer05: no, n950 Jan 02 23:33:41 I *honestly* doubt Jollaphone will look anything like N950 Jan 02 23:33:48 Doc - my point is that Jolla won't be the kind of company that sends schematics out Jan 02 23:34:01 that is what they have been painted as - that is not the direction they are going. Jan 02 23:34:20 They have to send out service manuals sometime in the future. Jan 02 23:34:50 hmm, which raises the question - who will support the devices in warranty? Jan 02 23:35:13 (assuming such will be sold in europe) Jan 02 23:35:16 just make devices that don't break, problem solved Jan 02 23:35:24 I'd like to be very blunt. China - as in Chines Authorities (the guys infamous for doing less than moral things) have been wanting an OS for China. It is very much a government initiative and not simply because they don't want foreign companies taking out profits. Jan 02 23:35:41 kerio: heh? Jan 02 23:35:44 It is a nationalistic initiative with hidden undertones Jan 02 23:36:06 kerio, going by the team's track record for RX-51 USB ports, RM-680 LCD screens and RM-696 USB doors, that's a tall order Jan 02 23:36:10 If Jolla has been rubbing elbows over there for a year - as they bragged about doing - they might be lined up to fill that spot Jan 02 23:36:35 Theorbo: well, not much I could answer, except "let's wait and see" Jan 02 23:36:39 And if they are the platform that the government has been wanting - you can bet on something being fishy in some part of the stack - from software to hardware Jan 02 23:37:27 there will be something. The Chinese have shown over and over that that is their cup of tea. This is not some anti-Chinese rambling. It is the fact of things. Jan 02 23:37:50 Doc - the point is we really won't know for sure. You have to judge by the surroundings Jan 02 23:38:42 and the surroundings are a Finnish group moving over to China playing ball on every level as 95 percent of their funding comes from Chinese companies (that are VERY influenced by the government) Jan 02 23:38:58 And also the Americans, like when Boeing overhauled China's presidential jet, suddenly hundreds of undocumented microphones, recorders, and transmitters had been installed ;) Jan 02 23:39:02 and even without the funding - China is the market that the Jolla execs want to cut their teeth on Jan 02 23:39:44 Theorbo: well of course we can't know for sure now, but once either the Sailfish platform is available for Mer Core or the devices get released, then we can take a peek through it, and decide if it is yet another mobile cancer or otherwise. Jan 02 23:39:48 If they have aspirations of becoming the guys they have worked for for so long, human nature will surrender morals to whatever party they have to deal with in the red nation Jan 02 23:40:31 China and India are also interesting in that Google and Nokia are fucking it up there, they don't have any way to bill people, so appstore piracy is the norm :) Jan 02 23:40:59 Shadow - I'm not saying that the West doesn't do similar. The benefit of the west is that they are mildly more likely to focus on foreign government whereas China is known for setting sights on everything , foreign/local civlian/government Jan 02 23:41:20 Although if China wanted one botnet to control the Chinese, one has to wonder why it wasn't Aliyun or MIUI or Xiaomi or ZTE or Huawei. Jan 02 23:41:25 So if someone was able to figure out how to accept people's money, they'd have greater chance at getting a slice of the market than the people who can't figure out how to receive money Jan 02 23:41:35 (wait, wasn't Huawei already caught botnetting their network equipment?) Jan 02 23:41:58 I think that was Nokia Siemens :-) Jan 02 23:42:19 The spy features in their base station hardware Jan 02 23:43:02 ShadowJK, in US deployments, what carrier hardware doesn't require "lawful intercept" functionality? Jan 02 23:43:46 Hurrian - I'm a security consultant - if things are done properly at the hardware level there is VERY little chance of being able to catch it. Jan 02 23:43:51 things we be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything Jan 02 23:43:59 I'm not trying to go nuts on a tinfoil hat tangent Jan 02 23:44:03 s/we/will/ Jan 02 23:44:03 DocScrutinizer05 meant: things will be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything Jan 02 23:44:37 but if SailFish is what the chinese government has been waiting for and if deals are being done behind closed doors, then the likelihood of an untrustworthy platform are quite high. Jan 02 23:44:39 tivoization allows them to force their users on any skynet crap they like Jan 02 23:45:20 and you all know OMAP comes with tivo per default, as do most other SOCs nowadays Jan 02 23:45:40 In the end, most things are being done at the network level. I'm just mentioning this because most people don't seem to have any concern. Jan 02 23:45:43 I wish more had. Jan 02 23:45:55 Theorbo: you'll easily spot the closed blobs that do nasty things Jan 02 23:46:09 In software - yes Jan 02 23:46:13 Theorbo, iOS' massive popularity is a testament to user blindness. Jan 02 23:46:14 I'm talking about hardware. Jan 02 23:46:44 Oh, and hiding it in hardware works until one of the following happens: Jan 02 23:46:49 at least, recently i was referring to hardware Jan 02 23:46:52 They just issue orders. Like after someone took a taxi in Beijing, hid anti-party opinions inside ping pong balls, rolled down taxi window while driving through town and throwing the ping pong balls with the hidden messages at people, all taxi cabs were mandated to convert their taxis so that windows can not be rolled down, and taxi drivers may not transport passengers with more than 1 ping pong ball. Jan 02 23:46:58 :P Jan 02 23:47:09 I'm EE, I tell you hw is a terribly difficult field to insert something that nobody notices and still offers some function beneficial to the dark side Jan 02 23:47:50 1) Suspicious traffic is caught traveling across the network, can't be pinpointed to blobs in the SW, someone takes a Salae to the radio Jan 02 23:47:53 My specialty is software - I won't argue hardware with you Jan 02 23:48:18 But the EE in the security field I associate with share my opinion Jan 02 23:48:30 Indeed, it is theirs that I have taken on Jan 02 23:49:40 2) The Jolla phone becomes popular, one of the decap companies that does decaps for PR tears down the Jollaphone, hilarity ensues. Jan 02 23:50:35 homestly, why should anybody do such nonsense like hiding functions in hw. All they need is tivoized bootloader and with that they force every BS they like onto their customers Jan 02 23:50:46 This is silly anyway, china makes everything anyways, whether it be iphones or ranombrand android :P Jan 02 23:51:05 DocScrutinizer05, because tivoization of Linux hardware is a surefire way to get your shit rooted? Jan 02 23:52:09 like HARM? Jan 02 23:53:19 How significant /was/ the tivoization on it? Jan 02 23:53:25 probably in china you are about 30cm shorter when they catch you witha rooted device. and odds are they catch everybody who roots it Jan 02 23:53:51 If they disallowed openmode kernel on N9/50, that would be one hell of an uproar.; Jan 02 23:53:57 honestly why should the HIDE any such rogue shit? Jan 02 23:55:54 particularly since you can't hide any active useful function in a mobile anyway, it gets detected from behaviour of device by virtually everybody and his dog Jan 02 23:55:56 DocScrutinizer05, advertising you have a rootkit preinstalled isn't good for sales Jan 02 23:56:27 you think China does give a shit about it? Jan 02 23:57:06 is adveritising internet censorship and great chinese firewall good for internet sales? Jan 02 23:57:37 Chinese Gvmt simply does it Jan 02 23:57:56 they don't ask if anybody likes it, so they wouldn't even think about hiding Jan 02 23:59:42 Might work over there, and honestly their network is rootkitted at every single level so even if you used Gentoo on an OpenCores IP block your traffic would still be sniffed Jan 02 23:59:45 you're trying to hide stuff when you expect the one you're hiding the stuff from doesn't expect it to be there already Jan 03 00:00:14 But outside of China, everyone would just not touch it if it's revealed that it may have China rootkits inside. Jan 03 00:00:43 what about all the huawai kit? Jan 03 00:03:39 DocScrutinizer05: we've talked before regarding sd card issues. i've done dd read & write tests as we discussed, once through the n900s card slot / mass storage and using a card reader on a linux box. Jan 03 00:03:47 my point still holds: there won't be any hidden functions in hw, and in sw it's very likely that they're not hidden but pretty obvious Jan 03 00:04:03 now the strange thing is - using card reader no errors at all Jan 03 00:04:29 on the phone errrors a plenty starting at transfers of about 20megs. Jan 03 00:04:51 possibly different VCC Jan 03 00:04:58 supply voltage Jan 03 00:04:59 what do you think? just bad luck? some card defect which only shows on n900? Jan 03 00:05:07 or different clock Jan 03 00:05:14 yes Jan 03 00:05:17 exactly Jan 03 00:05:17 hmm.. how could i verify supply voltage? Jan 03 00:05:24 or clock speed? Jan 03 00:05:30 forget it, get another card Jan 03 00:05:30 What kind of card? Jan 03 00:05:38 sandisk Jan 03 00:05:44 ShadowJK: class 10 sandisk ultra 32gig Jan 03 00:05:46 32G 10 Jan 03 00:06:12 I ordered two different sandisks today :-) Jan 03 00:06:25 not even sandisk verifies their cards that thoroughly Jan 03 00:06:47 or it got damaged during transport Jan 03 00:06:51 they have atleast 3 x 4 different "Class 10" ones now :-( Jan 03 00:06:51 ESD Jan 03 00:06:59 wirr; what kernel? Jan 03 00:07:07 ShadowJK: power51 Jan 03 00:07:07 PK51 Jan 03 00:07:16 and cssu-thumb as well Jan 03 00:07:27 OOOH Jan 03 00:07:30 lol Jan 03 00:07:36 I wonder if pk includes the "class 10 fix" patch Jan 03 00:07:44 now THAT would be interesting Jan 03 00:07:50 pk should have it since r48 Jan 03 00:07:58 ok Jan 03 00:08:20 ShadowJK: what kernel do you use? Jan 03 00:08:39 * ShadowJK switched to pk on main device 2 days ago Jan 03 00:08:46 Doc, what do you mean? Jan 03 00:09:00 wirr: could you - just for a short test - (install and) boot a stock kernel on a non-thumb system and do same tests again? Jan 03 00:09:35 hmmm... non-thumb system :-) Jan 03 00:09:41 yeah, can flash it quickly Jan 03 00:09:44 you could probably use rescueOS for that Jan 03 00:10:04 wait... i can boot backupmenu using stock kernel Jan 03 00:10:19 or flash, and after that restore from BM Jan 03 00:10:36 or that :-) Jan 03 00:11:24 I'd think pk would work more reliably, the original stock mmc/sd stuff that got patched was some bullshit "make it go faster" crap Jan 03 00:11:41 just to make sure we got no glitch in KP or thumb Jan 03 00:12:18 ShadowJK: the "class 10" patch came from upstream, as a result of ADATA not following some specs IIRC Jan 03 00:12:33 :nod: Jan 03 00:12:37 Not that Nokia screwed it Jan 03 00:12:51 Nokia/TI Jan 03 00:13:33 freemangordon: upstream meaning nokia or mainline linux kernel? Jan 03 00:14:17 BTW even with "class 10" patch, I have i/o errors with ADATA card. When it is overheaten :D. Jan 03 00:14:26 wirr: mainline Jan 03 00:15:10 wirr: or it might be from Meego kernel, I cant recall right now Jan 03 00:15:13 freemangordon; just the description of the stock code sounds wrong, some dynamic timeout thing? Jan 03 00:15:51 ShadowJK: IIRC that's how it is supposed to be. According to the specs Jan 03 00:16:18 Spec sounds kinda buggy then :-) Jan 03 00:16:21 timeout value depends on some parameter coming from the card Jan 03 00:16:38 * wirr is loosing a tear or two over flashing his n900 using stock kernel Jan 03 00:17:16 I hope you did a BM backup first Jan 03 00:17:21 btw, my adata card is working remarkably well in my N800 :D Jan 03 00:17:38 yeah - manually rebuilding my dm-crypt setup would take me 4 hours at least... Jan 03 00:17:39 ShadowJK: the new one? Jan 03 00:17:59 yeah Jan 03 00:19:19 wirr: you could've booted rescueOS Jan 03 00:19:20 it was 32G UHS-1? I was wondering if I should bye similar Samsung one I saw in a shop Jan 03 00:19:25 ..in my N900 a Lexar 32GB class 10 works flawlessly since 6 months.. Jan 03 00:19:29 *buy Jan 03 00:19:59 the question is - is it faster than class 2SanDisk on random io Jan 03 00:20:17 the sandisk ultra is uhs-1 i think Jan 03 00:20:29 it is, so what? Jan 03 00:22:04 I have the impression all this class 100, UHS 200 etc is only marketing bullshit Jan 03 00:22:13 it is Jan 03 00:22:55 unfortunately Jan 03 00:23:34 My adata actually does substantially more IOPS than others Jan 03 00:23:39 ...and sdxc? Jan 03 00:23:56 ShadowJK: compared to what others? Jan 03 00:24:17 latest class 10 cards Jan 03 00:24:22 Uh, sandisk c2, c4 ultra and c4 standard Jan 03 00:25:16 xes: afaik sdxc is to the old std something similar to what is USB3 compared to USB2 Jan 03 00:25:19 (all my transcend/kingston c2-c10 being slower than the sandisk c2 and c4 ultra Jan 03 00:25:33 .. Jan 03 00:26:46 anyway, i'll wait for sandisk mobile ultra 64/128G (or similar) to hit the market here Jan 03 00:27:04 I ordered a 16g mobile ultra Jan 03 00:27:08 uh Jan 03 00:27:18 and a 16g mobile extreme Jan 03 00:27:47 I'll wait for the benchmarks :) Jan 03 00:28:14 the mobile ultra was "for android" and had marketing claims about improved app "startup and upgrade" and multitasking performance Jan 03 00:29:23 ShadowJK: seems (according to some reviews) sandisk did their best to provide some acceptable level of random io performance Jan 03 00:30:41 With stock swap algo, which Maemo4 still has, I get about 20-60 iops on the adata in "real life" use, with swap in use being 500M right now lol Jan 03 00:31:07 lol Jan 03 00:31:46 Response time is 0-20 s right now Jan 03 00:31:53 (UI input) Jan 03 00:32:02 nice :D Jan 03 00:32:44 with other cards I've had, it'd rebooted at 300M, 2-4 iops and 60-7200s UI latency ;) Jan 03 00:34:10 talking about latency... I did a visual comparison of startup times of phone-ui, contacts and conversations betweeen n900 and S3 Jan 03 00:34:30 guess who is faster ;) Jan 03 00:35:15 the good old hand-cranked wood+bakelite phone? Jan 03 00:35:16 LOL at 7200s latency Jan 03 00:35:17 n900 was playing music via FMTX by the same time Jan 03 00:35:43 ShadowJK: exactly :D Jan 03 00:37:17 I have no idea really. Based on my quadcore tegra3 tablet, I'd guess it was pretty evenly matched? Jan 03 00:38:56 well, the S3 had only about 10 messages stored, with ~25 contacts. Jan 03 00:39:47 TBH that pisses me off, how is that possible to have such a HW and to behave so (relatively to that HW) badly Jan 03 00:40:38 i know what you mean Jan 03 00:41:45 I bet S3 has more horsepower than my old 2001 P4 2.2GHz laptop Jan 03 00:42:32 (which I am still usong as I refuse to swithch to 16/10 screen ;) ) Jan 03 00:42:35 *using Jan 03 00:47:49 so... I've been running dd tests for 15 min now on stock (pr1.3) without any updates. so far no issues but i'll report back tomorrow when i've did read and write for the full 32gig. Jan 03 00:48:54 freemangordon, Samsung makes animations longer than they need to though Jan 03 00:50:16 the comparison should be Maemo 5 with animations set to 0, and the stock Samsung ROM with the animations set to 0 Jan 03 01:23:43 Is there a build of git-annex for N900? Jan 03 01:33:28 AndrewX192: even the builds of git itself are rather non-existing Jan 03 01:36:06 merlin1991: hmm, interesting Jan 03 01:40:36 http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/ Jan 03 01:40:43 that's how all phones can be saved Jan 03 01:41:41 nah I bet it will have stupid (c) canonical "design" decisions that make it not enjoyable for me Jan 03 01:42:58 As far as I'm concerned, I don't care... So long as I can get root etc, and load my own UI instead. Jan 03 01:43:09 * robbiethe1st roots for another hildon-UI phone. Jan 03 01:57:29 robbiethe1st: let's hope for a GNU/Linux phone with real glibc, bionic is garbage. Jan 03 01:57:35 Yup Jan 03 01:57:55 Well, as far as I'm concerned, glibc, Busybox(at least) is a minimum Jan 03 02:12:07 ~messybox Jan 03 02:12:11 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Jan 03 02:12:16 just sayin ;) Jan 03 02:27:14 As far as I'm concerned, though, it's good enough. Plus, it means I can probably load in my own full bash/etc if I need it Jan 03 02:32:15 oh, hi merlin1991 Jan 03 02:33:23 hi there :) Jan 03 02:33:31 * merlin1991 spammed tmo and maemo-dev Jan 03 02:33:39 o.O Jan 03 02:33:43 let's see if we get fresh meat for our beloved cssu Jan 03 02:33:52 aaaah :-D Jan 03 02:35:03 yeah, we also need quite a number of maintainers for 'central services' Jan 03 02:36:05 the central services stabilization unit Jan 03 02:36:11 ;-D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 03 02:59:59 2013