**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 22 02:59:58 2013 Jan 22 03:00:11 ~gsm-agps Jan 22 03:00:11 from memory, rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP Jan 22 03:01:06 RRLP is the reason why the GPS chip is connected to the modem rather than the application CPU Jan 22 03:16:27 are the new repos coming along? Jan 22 03:57:45 Sc0rpius: alas not Jan 22 06:47:42 Nokia find a new "developers ecosystem": http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/22/lumia_820_print_your_own_case/ Jan 22 06:48:47 RST38h: that idea is actually from Texrat; one of the few remaining people in Nokia who understand "community"... I'm waiting to see how long before it gets taken down :D Jan 22 06:50:23 texrat "in nokia"??? Jan 22 06:50:59 DocScrutinizer05: don't you know? Its been at least 3-4 months since he was re-hired but with the focus being on Lumia this time :D Jan 22 06:51:30 They finally had mercy on him and took the poor buffon back onboard? =) Jan 22 06:51:39 dang, Nokia hires and fires like others decide on taking their umbrella with them when leaving home Jan 22 06:51:44 haha Jan 22 06:53:04 Doc: This news item, by the way, confirms my assessment of a Lumia device Jan 22 06:53:18 well, I have to claim that the idea of publishing full 3D files for whatever way of manufacturing your own case been originally established first time by Openmoko Jan 22 06:53:23 Doc: It is a 1:1 scale model of a real smartphone, with no moving parts =) Jan 22 06:53:57 Can't do anything about the insides, anything at all. But now you can print your own case for it =) Jan 22 06:55:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_case_schematics Jan 22 06:56:26 btw the original link: http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/01/18/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-lumia-820-and-3d-printing/ Jan 22 06:57:28 that's nice DocScrutinizer05 ;) Jan 22 06:58:12 I wonder if anybody involved and registered with such "social media" will post a comment with a link to the original idea on that "news" about lumia Jan 22 06:59:12 or rather, please don't, we need to clean out vandalism on the wiki otherwise Jan 22 06:59:19 Doc: No, and not even because Nokia would not allow that (it would) Jan 22 06:59:21 i'm posting it Jan 22 06:59:30 Doc: But simply because nobody is interested Jan 22 07:00:17 Anybody can tell what this is about: http://www.dvlup.com/Welcome Jan 22 07:00:18 ? Jan 22 07:04:57 RST38h: not very sure but it seems like those efforts by Nokia to get more apps into WP Marketplace... Something similar but for end-users requesting for apps: http://www.eventfaqs.com/eventfaqs/wcms/en/home/news/Nokia-Lumia-and-NDTV-launch-Y-1358192176926.html Jan 22 07:06:17 The intro seems to indicate that it is some kind of a creepy social network for Microsoftgeeks Jan 22 07:06:30 Definitely does not say anything about apps Jan 22 07:06:54 not social network but more like there are apps that are missing so you take on a challenge to code that app and get points etc which get you devices or rewards Jan 22 07:07:17 see their twitter account to see developers asking for access or them asking developers for clarifications on apps: https://twitter.com/dvlup Jan 22 07:07:47 mghm Jan 22 07:07:54 this would explain why there are some replicas of popular games on Marketplace for free Jan 22 07:08:00 And who is the target audience? Indians? Jan 22 07:08:12 Anyone and Everyone for dvlup Jan 22 07:09:19 There is a WP-developer company called AE that publishes many apps on WP-marketplace that are replicas like Bejeweled etc... Maybe they are part of dvlup hence they earn from dvlup... (notice the pun their name uses) Jan 22 07:10:05 oh also FYI Texrat is one of the WP-Ambassadors for dvlup too ;) Jan 22 07:10:38 yeah, that is how I found dvlup Jan 22 07:10:49 oh dvlup is only for residents of the USA Jan 22 07:11:08 so, this rat race is US-specific? Jan 22 07:11:21 yup see their T&C: http://www.dvlup.com/TermsAndConditions Jan 22 07:11:33 do they target WP7 or WP8? because if it is WP7, then the whole picture looks even more hopeless Jan 22 07:12:04 I would say WP8 considering their twitter account which shows developers wishing they had a WP8 Lumia instead of the WP7 Lumia they had Jan 22 07:12:29 hence their loan programs for upgrading your WP7 to a WP8 device if you are part of dvlup Jan 22 07:12:45 loan and device upgrade* Jan 22 07:13:18 ah Jan 22 07:14:09 Well, good luck to them. If WP8 sells, I will consider porting to it. Jan 22 07:14:38 Right now though, the top of my todo list is Kindle :) Jan 22 07:15:30 ;) Jan 22 07:18:16 brrrp Jan 22 08:36:45 â¬sb lev-all Jan 22 08:41:54 mhm Jan 22 09:16:09 freemangordon: ping Jan 22 09:17:18 freemangordon: please use git pull; git rebase when you push changes to main repo.... merge commits does not looks very good. Jan 22 09:18:54 romaxa: I did a mistake for that particular commit, my appologies Jan 22 09:19:55 romaxa: the next is ok (aiui). i use git pull --rebase before pushing Jan 22 09:20:06 (except for that case) Jan 22 09:38:18 freemangordon: hokkey Jan 22 10:04:10 ~cold-flashing Jan 22 10:04:32 ~cold-flashing Jan 22 10:04:42 ~ping Jan 22 10:04:42 ~pong Jan 22 10:04:50 ~cold-flashing Jan 22 10:05:03 ~coldflash Jan 22 10:05:04 from memory, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing Jan 22 10:05:23 thanks Jan 22 10:05:29 :) Jan 22 10:06:12 trying to bring alive device with torn apart secondary board (flex torn), and where usb port got broken during reflash Jan 22 10:06:32 not my achievement :P someone asked me to try recovering data from it's mydocs... Jan 22 10:06:45 fun Jan 22 10:06:53 ah, I forget about 2 under-battery pads being torn too Jan 22 10:07:06 ...what the hell did you do to that poor n900? Jan 22 10:07:28 kerio: see why only 40k devices left? Jan 22 10:07:34 :D Jan 22 10:07:37 so cable for creating alternate connection got created by mixing two pads from under battery, one (alive) pad for microusb, and one later component, where data+ is connected... Jan 22 10:07:42 :P Jan 22 10:08:01 as data+ was torn apart on *both* usb pads and under battery pads Jan 22 10:08:28 kerio, as said, it wasn't me :P Jan 22 10:09:01 someone send it to me as dead motherboard for free, in exchange for attempt on recovering data (no matter if it works out or not) Jan 22 10:09:54 well, *if* by some miracle, it's gonna work, after being dead motherboard for CNC operations, I'll get case for it and make it first computer for my 4 years old son Jan 22 10:10:20 no idea if device without secondary board boots, maybe bootng process need to be changed for it Jan 22 10:10:50 well, holding thumbs and connecting it to usb port, hope no smoke appearing ;) Jan 22 11:18:29 Sigh. Since my cellular isp ran out of public IPs, and started giving the public IPs out on a first come first serve basis, and putting the rest on NAT, things have gone downhill Jan 22 11:18:43 yesterday I had a mtu of 1436, had to determine that experimentally Jan 22 11:19:00 fragmented packets were dropped, icmp replies were dropped Jan 22 11:19:20 pmtu discovery broken? Jan 22 11:19:47 pmtu, traceroute (on udp, icmp and tcp), etc Jan 22 11:19:54 eww Jan 22 11:20:07 ShadowJK: ewww :s Jan 22 11:20:43 Basically I set my mss to 512 and logged in to my server and then sent udp packets with increasing packet size until they no longer arrived at tcpdump on server Jan 22 11:20:48 cut off was at 1436 Jan 22 11:21:36 and didnt get "fragmentation needed" icmp? Jan 22 11:23:05 nope Jan 22 11:23:12 broken filtering <.< Jan 22 11:23:32 ShadowJK: that kidna reminds me of the time when the router here got a fw upgrade which made it choke on mtu higher than 1400 :D Jan 22 11:23:35 Also when I fragmented locally, no packets arrived, not the first and not the subsequent fragments Jan 22 11:24:02 probably something like defragment, hit mtu ceiling, drop Jan 22 11:24:19 or reassemble.. not defragment Jan 22 11:40:22 hey, for how long will everything be offline? Jan 22 11:59:36 sorry to ask something that was probably asked 1000 on this channel, but I'm rather rarely here: Jan 22 12:00:00 where I can find data of most recommended (up to date, kinda "unoficcial-official" mirror for repos? Jan 22 12:00:27 I've planned to wait for repos being up again, but realized, that I need backupmenu on one of devices... Jan 22 12:00:45 Lesson to keep such essential things backup'ed locally, methink Jan 22 12:01:14 thanks in advance for answer Jan 22 12:02:06 Estel_: skeiron.org/repo won't give hash sum mismatch while maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror is more recent but may give you hash sum errors Jan 22 12:06:41 thedead1440: it definitely gives you hash sum mismatch errors Jan 22 12:06:46 ~mirrors Jan 22 12:06:46 well, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Jan 22 12:07:46 merlin1991: its kinda weird; skeiron has no issues but see this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1316575&postcount=20 Jan 22 12:09:04 * merlin1991 is not sure what he sees there Jan 22 12:09:53 that user has an issue with skeiron because of missing GPG key and problems with the .bz file which I can't seem to get Jan 22 12:10:06 it means his original GPG key has been removed maybe Jan 22 12:10:51 hm foobar bzip2 in his $PATH? Jan 22 12:10:57 Estel_: extras-devel.merlin1991.at Jan 22 12:11:11 with only the latest version of each package Jan 22 12:11:13 updated daily Jan 22 12:11:15 supports pdiffs Jan 22 12:11:28 [general notice] we're approaching a zone of turCDSsxydewxEWFDCX ZONE of turbulence and *.maemo.org is geajgDGGlkjhfhjf ng slow for undefined time Jan 22 12:11:46 DocScrutinizer05: i hate this pilot :p Jan 22 12:12:01 actually everything except tmo is pretty much down Jan 22 12:12:21 they should add troll.maemo.org as a cname Jan 22 12:12:33 again unknown bottleneck in uplink from firewall, which tmo is not linked to ;-) Jan 22 12:15:54 it's absurd, the slower everything else gets, the faster tmo seems to be ;-P Jan 22 12:16:14 wmo just loaded again for me Jan 22 12:17:35 anyway, our Hero over at Nemein is looking into it Jan 22 12:18:22 [2013-01-22 13:00:20] the bottleneck is somewhere else, all the server loads are minimal. Jan 22 12:18:23 [2013-01-22 13:01:21] I'll ask the ISP for latest uplink graps (and also if the error counters which they reset a few days ago) Jan 22 12:33:47 [general notice] we're sorry for the turbulence, we now left the area and a smooth and gentle flight is ahead of us. Actually we will arrive twice as fast than we expected Jan 22 12:34:23 :) Jan 22 12:35:03 thedead1440: (we activated an afterburner on the FW) Jan 22 12:35:21 DocScrutinizer05: now i like this pilot :p Jan 22 12:35:49 [2013-01-22 13:22:04] I'll take the FW down for a moment and add a second CPU just in case (the system shows idle load but...) Jan 22 12:36:30 srly I thought we are running in a professional hoting environment Jan 22 12:36:33 wtf is going on? Jan 22 12:36:46 nfc Jan 22 12:37:10 you know, sometimes IT is voodoo Jan 22 12:37:50 particularly on a xen-grid I guess Jan 22 12:38:18 i hope the firewall isn't in the xen-grid too Jan 22 12:38:23 otherwise, wtf Jan 22 12:38:26 err, it is Jan 22 12:38:30 that makes no sense Jan 22 12:38:31 aiui Jan 22 12:38:45 why do i need a wm to act as a firewall Jan 22 12:38:57 wtf wm Jan 22 12:39:02 *vm Jan 22 12:39:18 you obviously don't need a window manager to act as a firewall Jan 22 12:39:31 this is a firewall/NAT/trafficshaper Jan 22 12:39:33 although it's probably going to happen, if you let lennart think about it some more Jan 22 12:39:46 DocScrutinizer05: yeah but in my book, something like that only makes sense if it's a separate piece of hardware Jan 22 12:40:04 that sits between the uplink and the servers Jan 22 12:40:05 define "piece of hw" Jan 22 12:40:37 * DocScrutinizer05 thinks kerio has a cloudy idea of a xen-grid Jan 22 12:41:01 we're talking of at least one reck full of servers here Jan 22 12:41:04 rack* Jan 22 12:41:40 one of then (nobody knows which) runs a VM that plays FW Jan 22 12:42:14 that's precisely my point, why do we need a VM to play the role of a firewall? Jan 22 12:42:34 for NAT and trafficshaping mainly Jan 22 12:43:25 at least I guess that's the intended purpose Jan 22 12:44:23 [2013-01-22 13:27:40] mashiara, which firewall system / software are you using? Jan 22 12:44:24 [2013-01-22 13:28:01] Endian (community edition) it seems Jan 22 12:49:25 where did this happen? Jan 22 12:51:51 thanks for all answers Jan 22 12:52:09 erm, bzip error was traced down, or it's really bb-power issue? Jan 22 12:52:37 If the later, DocScrutinizer05, could you forward me to your report (bug, post on tmo, whatever)about this? or someone's else? Jan 22 12:52:50 If it's true, I would pester iDont about it Jan 22 12:55:30 Estel_: iirc the problem been about some update of CSSU kicked out busybox-power (not intentionally but by mere dependencies) and users had to re-install it Jan 22 12:55:58 Estel_: it's fixed now, busybox-power uses dpkg-diverts now Jan 22 12:57:05 however it might be mere coincidence that the error msg looks the same, root cause might be sth completely unrelated Jan 22 12:58:43 first check if there's a bzip2 (or whatever) binary available on your system, I'd suggest Jan 22 12:58:52 Firefox Phone: http://gizmodo.com/5977909/this-is-the-first-official-firefox-phone-but-its-just-for-developers Jan 22 12:59:05 Only has 512MB RAM. *Suspicious.* Jan 22 12:59:08 * DocScrutinizer05 pukes Jan 22 12:59:27 512MB is like a light breakfast for Fennec Jan 22 12:59:33 * DocScrutinizer05 waits for first windows car Jan 22 12:59:47 Doc: That has happened already Jan 22 13:00:10 Doc: BMW had WinCE based car computer. It sucked. Jan 22 13:00:18 ok, make that M$-cardiac-pacemaker then Jan 22 13:00:35 Doc: And before you asked, Windows-based naval ship also happened and crashed on bootup. Jan 22 13:01:24 do BL-5J batterys get slightly curved normally, or when they're bad? Jan 22 13:01:27 RST38h: Not sure if the BMW computer sucked because it was Windows or because it was a BMW :P Jan 22 13:01:27 I know they built naval ship with WinNT navigation, which epically failed on tests Jan 22 13:01:41 Luke-Jr: when bad Jan 22 13:01:53 get rid of, immediately Jan 22 13:02:00 jonwil: It was part windows and part their physical UI Jan 22 13:02:08 DocScrutinizer05: is it a problem to use it as padding (not electronically)? Jan 22 13:02:16 Luke-Jr: pregnant battery syndrome Jan 22 13:02:16 Or, better, give it to you best enemy Jan 22 13:02:29 So that when it ruptures, it is HIS balls on the line Jan 22 13:02:50 DocScrutinizer05: eg, so my other battery doesn't fall out of the Mugen case Jan 22 13:03:03 * jonwil wouldn't be caught dead driving a German car :P Jan 22 13:03:06 nah, it's critical state Jan 22 13:03:20 is normal trash okay then? :p Jan 22 13:03:26 no Jan 22 13:03:57 dispose off at some LiIon collection point Jan 22 13:04:19 put scotch tape over contacts Jan 22 13:04:43 will that make it safe? Jan 22 13:04:58 yes, as soon as you're 50m away from it Jan 22 13:05:02 bah Jan 22 13:05:13 Doc <== exagerrating Jan 22 13:05:22 5m is fine, it is a small battery Jan 22 13:05:27 -.- Jan 22 13:05:37 * Luke-Jr ponders what else to use as padding now Jan 22 13:05:37 they *usually* burn, not fly apart Jan 22 13:05:40 RST38h: in that collection point might sit another 300 cells waiting for a reason to act up Jan 22 13:05:58 ah that Jan 22 13:06:34 787 anybody? Jan 22 13:06:39 Oh yesss Jan 22 13:07:15 Doc: Also: http://updates.jalopnik.com/post/34669789863/more-than-a-dozen-fisker-karma-hybrids-caught-fire-and Jan 22 13:07:41 I heard a cargo of LiIon took out a freight liner, since then no more shipping of LiIon per airfreight Jan 22 13:09:18 Who needs nukes? Jan 22 13:09:34 just grab all the batteries in a city and build a megabomb :P Jan 22 13:09:39 when we got cargo airliners and LiIon Jan 22 13:10:00 so I should put it down the end of my driveway until I go out? Jan 22 13:10:07 Boing PFFFFF Jan 22 13:10:12 fools Jan 22 13:10:20 BTW, aluminium would also apply, if not for the wonderful properties of Al2O3 Jan 22 13:10:41 Luke: Put it on the road and watch some lorry snuff it. Jan 22 13:11:10 O.o Jan 22 13:11:13 meh, the HF will not etch the rubber of the tires Jan 22 13:11:23 H2F? Jan 22 13:11:36 Where did you get F from? Jan 22 13:11:42 nfc Jan 22 13:11:56 what if I make a hole in it? Jan 22 13:12:00 will that calm it down? Jan 22 13:12:08 but i heard it's the major threat of LiIon going bonkers Jan 22 13:12:32 Luke-Jr: well, basically yes Jan 22 13:12:40 I don't recommend it though Jan 22 13:12:43 Wiki does say LiIons use fluorides Jan 22 13:14:34 DocScrutinizer05: if it works, why not? Jan 22 13:14:37 Since 2007 or so Jan 22 13:14:54 because of HF being toxic Jan 22 13:15:03 really toxic Jan 22 13:15:33 HF is definitely toxic, but I can't see how it can generate a lot of HF Jan 22 13:17:10 1 Jan 22 13:17:14 2 Jan 22 13:22:51 kerio, so if busybox-power uses dpkg-diverts, why DocScrutinizer05 insisted, that bug wasn't solved? Jan 22 13:23:11 it can't be due to he being not objective when it comes to bb-p ;) Jan 22 13:25:30 I didn't insist in anything, please don't start that scheme again Jan 22 13:25:54 your implicit insults not appreciated either Jan 22 13:28:15 if anybody insisted in anything then that's been you who insisted in forcing bb-p into cssu Jan 22 13:29:44 against everybody incl maintainer of bb-p agreed on it not being an exactly good idea to do so Jan 22 13:30:40 RST38h: heat... Jan 22 13:30:43 does it hurt anything to let the camera sensor think the lens is always open? Jan 22 13:30:59 like, will it use battery powering the camera? Jan 22 13:31:00 err good question Jan 22 13:31:13 RST38h: your question how a LiPo generates HF Jan 22 13:31:29 depends, wehn it actually thinks it needs to fucus and everything then it will eat shitloads of energy Jan 22 13:32:05 dang, my speeling sucks again Jan 22 13:32:11 OMFG Jan 22 13:32:22 * DocScrutinizer05 blushes and heads out Jan 22 13:32:22 ah, makes sense if it doesn't power/etc until something accesses it Jan 22 13:35:11 aha doh Jan 22 13:35:24 vibrate-on-sleep-with-lens-open is no longer useful Jan 22 13:35:25 XD Jan 22 13:35:49 * Luke-Jr wonders what package that was Jan 22 13:35:50 surprise surprise Jan 22 13:37:33 hmm, Walmart has no BL-5J? :/ Jan 22 13:37:53 surprise surprise Jan 22 13:37:58 :p Jan 22 13:38:10 * DocScrutinizer05 should create a macro for that Jan 22 13:38:27 do you need to get it from Nokia direct to be sure it's real, or will reputable retailers like NewEgg or Amazon have legit batteries for sure? Jan 22 13:38:58 amazon i'm not sure. The usual local store though should be OK Jan 22 13:39:13 usual local store = Walmart = not have O.o Jan 22 13:39:38 I'd prefer those which don't even claim to be "origginoll nokla" Jan 22 13:40:18 Newegg has them for $6.50 … "Sold by OrionGadgets" <.< Jan 22 13:40:26 not paying for the fake hologram make a friggin lot of difference Jan 22 13:41:22 Luke-Jr: s/wallmart/Nokia sho/ Jan 22 13:41:30 shop* even Jan 22 13:41:37 Luke-Jr: vi____ claims that aliexpress has a 1600mAh bl-5j Jan 22 13:41:46 DocScrutinizer05: don't think I've ever seen one of those in my life Jan 22 13:43:22 I tend to buy mine in a 2nd-hand phoneshop next door. If they dare to sell shit to me, they are happy to get me a replacement or refund me Jan 22 13:44:22 those are generally used genuine Nokia, and if I get a worn out one, they can get it back Jan 22 13:45:04 and they know I won't leave the shop until my money is in my pocket again Jan 22 13:46:35 I'm more than willing to pay 2 bucks more than they call for the most suspicious "original Nokla" in the interwebs Jan 22 13:46:38 wtf does google give me "Dayspring Church" when I search for nokia? Jan 22 13:46:45 for this convenience Jan 22 13:47:45 any reason to think a Verizon store might have them? Jan 22 13:48:01 no verizon here Jan 22 13:48:11 srsly though, 1600mAh is a lot Jan 22 13:48:15 I gather it's a carrier? Jan 22 13:48:44 if they are, they might have Nokia phones and orginal spares Jan 22 13:49:04 Luke: Because that is where they told Elop his story about guy jumping from the burning platform into raging sea and staying alive? Jan 22 13:49:05 for ~40bucks per bl-5j Jan 22 14:11:54 [general notice] erRrhmcrxchrrxxthis is your friendly pilot. We gonna try a few loopings and other tricks, might have unforeseeable impact on your traveling experience on *.maemo.org. But if all works out as we hope, we might offer you repo.m.o in a while, served at your seat. Jan 22 14:13:14 brilliant DocScrutinizer05; looking forward to a safe-landing :D Jan 22 14:13:17 if not, we hope to recover after not too long Jan 22 14:15:01 why must it be so hard to find a decent windows backup program that doesn't cost $$$ :( Jan 22 14:15:24 because windows is about $$$ Jan 22 14:15:42 jonwil: there was on I just cannot remember the name... Jan 22 14:15:45 one Jan 22 14:17:48 jonwil: was it cobian maybe?! Jan 22 14:19:00 will see if that one looks good Jan 22 14:22:15 jonwil: that is mainly because most people who really need backups do them by hand or have custom scripts Jan 22 14:22:29 sorry our looping exercises got postponed for a short while Jan 22 14:22:36 jonwil: and the rest are worth exploiting Jan 22 14:22:56 well at this point all I need is a simple way to say "burn this folder to as many DVDs as it takes until everything has been burnt" Jan 22 14:23:17 This is done with a CD burning software Jan 22 14:23:24 Which should have come with your computer Jan 22 14:23:49 I dont have any CD burning software Jan 22 14:24:18 Nero will do the job Jan 22 14:24:22 although there is aparently a free version of Nero out there Jan 22 14:24:24 so lets use that Jan 22 14:31:11 oh wait it seems like the free version of Nero doesn't like Windows 7... Jan 22 14:31:53 jonwil: you are in the wrong channel... and windows7 has its own cd burning built in! Jan 22 14:33:02 jonwil: and cd/dvds are bad for backup Jan 22 14:33:18 sorry, when will maemo.org be online again? Jan 22 14:33:33 mer_ge: it is online Jan 22 14:33:44 mer_ge: only repos are missing Jan 22 14:34:40 do you know when they'll be up again? Jan 22 14:35:01 there will be some testing taking place today Jan 22 14:35:46 if that goes well enough... do the math Jan 22 14:35:59 nice, thanks Jan 22 14:52:36 ~repo-down Jan 22 14:52:36 i heard repo-down is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 Jan 22 14:55:24 optical media is hipster as fuck Jan 22 15:01:30 there will be some testing taking place today mashiara: could you announce here before starting up stage.m.o please? I will when I get to it, this will take a long while still Jan 22 15:01:52 where does that happen? Jan 22 15:01:58 why do you have secret channels :( Jan 22 15:02:04 where you won't pester him Jan 22 15:02:15 k Jan 22 15:03:02 I tried to run all this in #maemo-meeting but noise level been way too high Jan 22 15:05:07 sorry but that's life, with the existing diference between those who IRC for fun and those we *must* use IRC (or even just think "well, with *that* I don't have to") Jan 22 15:05:53 s/we /who / Jan 22 15:05:54 DocScrutinizer05 meant: sorry but that's life, with the existing diference between those who IRC for fun and those who *must* use IRC (or even just think "well, with *that* I don't have to") Jan 22 15:06:06 pipes 'n sockets > dbus Jan 22 15:06:13 vi____: tru dat Jan 22 15:06:19 with regards to what? Jan 22 15:14:49 don't you think all http://*.maemo.org is lighning fast right now? Jan 22 15:15:17 (except when it takes eternities for initial connect sometimes) Jan 22 15:15:53 * kerio thinks about saying something regarding repository., but decides against Jan 22 15:16:02 yep, really quick Jan 22 15:36:24 ~mirror Jan 22 15:36:25 extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Jan 22 15:37:43 ~jolla Jan 22 17:50:15 romaxa: if I want to replace microb-engine with embedlite, what part should I write? should i take dummy-eal and implement embedlite-eal? or it is something else? Jan 22 18:40:42 freemangordon: that would not work... microb - it is UI with EAL in on process and eal-iml (like microb-eal + engine) in another process Jan 22 18:41:04 freemangordon: embedlite deliver multiProcess/Thread API out of the box Jan 22 18:41:57 freemangordon: so practically new EAL interface implementation wrapper around embedlite should be created... Jan 22 18:42:57 freemangordon: practically yep dummy eal new version... but nut sure how hard to do that... Jan 22 18:43:32 freemangordon: actually you also need to replace tablet-browser-view with EmbedLiteView Jan 22 18:49:51 oh, tablet-browser-view is closed source iirc :( Jan 22 18:50:18 but why I need to replace it if I use gtk2 build? Jan 22 18:50:37 isn't it based on gtkmozview? Jan 22 18:50:59 (tablet-browser-view that is) Jan 22 18:51:04 romaxa: ^^^ Jan 22 18:52:03 freemangordon: no gtkmozembed is dead past... Jan 22 18:52:26 romaxa: I know, but I was thinking to write a wrapper Jan 22 18:52:43 freemangordon: tablet-browser-view is just compositor with Pan/Zoom tricks which compositing shared images received from microb-eal Jan 22 18:53:09 so, why I need to rewrite it then? Jan 22 18:53:23 oh, I don't have the interfaces? Jan 22 18:53:27 freemangordon: embedLite using Gecko Layers for compositing and ShadowLayers for multi-threading/processing Jan 22 18:54:19 freemangordon: microb was written with that architecture because mozilla did not have Multi/T/P architecture and layers on that time Jan 22 18:55:04 freemangordon: now mozilla can do rendering and content parsing/DOM/JS in parallel without special abstraction layers Jan 22 18:56:41 romaxa: I looked in embedlite headers and what I understood is at the end there is a virtual method RenderToImage I need to reimplement to do the actual rendering. Is that correct? Jan 22 18:58:45 freemangordon: you don't need to reimplement it, you just need to call it Widget::Paint event and provide buffer data to Gtk/Q/Image or XSHM Image (which could be uploaded into Gtk X Surface) Jan 22 18:59:38 freemangordon: see https://github.com/tmeshkova/mozilla-central/blob/embedlite/embedding/embedlite/tests/qt/qtwidget/qgraphicsmozview.cpp#L299 Jan 22 19:00:19 freemangordon: or if you have some GTK GL context you can render into GL context directly Jan 22 19:01:57 romaxa: oh, I got it wrong :D. RenderToImage is not a callback (as I tought initially) Jan 22 19:02:30 getting closer... :) Jan 22 19:02:47 romaxa: is there any documentation on that API? Jan 22 19:06:04 romaxa: I think I finally understood what you meant by "you need to reimplement browser-ui". though I will try to find a way to skip that, I am not sure i'll be able to do it with same functionality as stock Jan 22 19:07:28 freemangordon: as far I understood it is gonna be pretty difficult to write that wripper and workaround all UI hacks and tricks... Jan 22 19:08:23 romaxa: I know you understood the matter way better than me, but reimplementing microb UI is not a task I am fit for :) Jan 22 19:08:31 *understand Jan 22 19:08:35 freemangordon: I guess it make sense just to work together on QML ui implementation which could be used across devices platforms Jan 22 19:09:43 romaxa: qwazix works on that (UI part). The only think I can help there is with some tweaks. Jan 22 19:10:12 But microb-engine replacement would be a big win (if possible) Jan 22 19:10:13 qml is poopoo on the n900 Jan 22 19:10:39 kerio: well, it is not that bad, actually qml embedlite interface is usable Jan 22 19:10:46 (test interface that is) Jan 22 19:11:00 yeah but it doesn't feel native enough Jan 22 19:11:05 it scrolls between 30-50 fps Jan 22 19:11:28 well, simple Qt will do the same job too AIUI Jan 22 19:11:36 freemangordon: browser-eal cover some sort of functionality but that does not cover async rendering... that part implemented via special hook like browser-eal IPC... practically it could be hoocked in some certain way Jan 22 19:11:51 freemangordon: are you going to keep the stock browserd for maps and conversations? Jan 22 19:12:08 kerio: so far I am not going to replace anything :P Jan 22 19:12:28 romaxa: I see Jan 22 19:13:18 oh, maps and converstions... Jan 22 19:13:26 yep Jan 22 19:14:09 one of the big problems alternative browsers have on n900, is that they have to fight for memory with browserd Jan 22 19:14:26 though... maps... who uses that? Jan 22 19:14:43 don't make me call the one who scrutinizes Jan 22 19:15:26 call him, I bet he don;t use maps :) Jan 22 19:15:42 users! Jan 22 19:15:48 romaxa: conversations use microb-engine via gtkmozembed? Jan 22 19:15:49 but yeah, monav ftw Jan 22 19:25:45 how big is qml (I assume it pulls in much of qt) library overrhead? Jan 22 19:26:19 * ShadowJK uses both maps and conversations :D Jan 22 19:29:22 I'd imagine qt/qml is bigger issue, because while microb can be almost fully swapped out when using another browser (until you get a sms, anyway), that probably isn't true for gtk/hildon.. Jan 22 19:32:42 freemangordon: no via browser-eal interface Jan 22 19:45:02 anybody has a clue about rfc2822? Jan 22 19:45:21 we need help with gmail rejecting our mails from tmo Jan 22 19:46:02 chem|st: could you pastebin a full protocol please? Jan 22 19:48:13 btw it seems qwazix and woody have similar issues with lists.maemo.org. Woody claims mails from lists.maemo.org don't arrive at him for any administrative stuff (not forwarded mails, so stuff like account creation confirmation mail etc) Jan 22 19:48:54 DocScrutinizer05: SPF confusion? Jan 22 19:48:54 qwazix missing any mails forwarded to him from council@m.o Jan 22 19:49:12 hi romaxa, freemangordon, I got one question about embedlite, does it have the normal firefox manager of bookmarks etc (profile folder) or has this been stripped out? I mean do we need to implement the mechanism for bookmarks, sync etc or just the UI? Jan 22 19:49:25 yeah, it seems this rings a bell here, though i'm *absolute* noob regarding that stuff Jan 22 19:49:51 DocScrutinizer05, I mailed X-Fade Jan 22 19:49:58 I've seen it Jan 22 19:49:59 though no reply yet Jan 22 19:50:23 err nope, I've not seen it Jan 22 19:50:45