**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 01 02:59:58 2013 Feb 01 03:47:36 * DocScrutinizer05 kills a kitten Feb 01 03:57:04 i.need.help.with.my.app.manager.on.n900.anyone.willing.to.help Feb 01 03:59:23 i.need.help.with.my.app.manager.on.n900.anyone.willing.to.help Feb 01 04:06:47 goblinday: I would strongly suggest you to talk normally Feb 01 04:06:56 That is, if you really want any help Feb 01 04:07:21 thats.as.normal.as.i.can.speak.space.bar.not.working Feb 01 04:07:31 oh my Feb 01 04:07:52 so.can.u.help. Feb 01 04:07:58 app manager gives an error because the repositories are down Feb 01 04:08:03 look at the topic of this channel Feb 01 04:08:06 type /topic Feb 01 04:08:25 the first link in the topic has info about how and why the repositories are down, which causes your app manager to give errors Feb 01 04:08:30 im.trying.to.flash.myphone.andit.says.there.are.catalogues.missing Feb 01 04:08:49 read what i said:) Feb 01 04:08:56 and.then.i.check.and.they.are.in.there Feb 01 04:09:04 you cant reach them Feb 01 04:09:07 they are down Feb 01 04:09:15 ~apt-mirror Feb 01 04:09:23 anyhow, check the link in the topic Feb 01 04:09:30 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1314588 Feb 01 04:10:07 ok Feb 01 04:11:09 i.clicked.the.link.what.am.i.looking.for Feb 01 04:15:59 read what is written there Feb 01 06:22:19 how do I make the n900's file browser start in my root folder Feb 01 06:32:04 Anyone know a way to check which 3G band is being used? (900/1800/2100) Feb 01 08:27:23 as i understand this is a time when migration is being undertaken, is there any place i can get latest n900 firmware and flasher tool? Feb 01 08:27:42 damo22: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo-dev-env-downloads/ Feb 01 08:27:52 ty Feb 01 08:27:52 yay skeiron Feb 01 08:28:00 that's just the flasher, btw Feb 01 08:28:08 firmwares are http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/ Feb 01 08:28:15 legend Feb 01 08:28:35 if you want mirrors, there's mirrors of the repo on skeiron or on maemo-archive.wedrop.it Feb 01 08:29:31 awesome, i am new to maemo, but when i plugged in my n900 to a linux pc it has i/o error and cant mount as usb... im thinking maybe the stock firmware is too old Feb 01 08:30:22 damo22: did you enable usb mass storage mode? Feb 01 08:30:27 yep Feb 01 08:30:28 also, did you buy it used? Feb 01 08:30:50 um supposed to be new, but cant guarantee that Feb 01 08:31:19 damo22: anyway, it's still better to do a full reflash with the "latest" firmware Feb 01 08:31:29 thats what i thought Feb 01 08:31:29 and then install the latest cssu distro Feb 01 08:33:59 hm, why is the freenode group Maemo and not maemo? Feb 01 08:37:18 gggs, it's very interesting question, actually Feb 01 08:37:40 frankly, I have no idea? is it possible, at all? Feb 01 08:37:46 there's NetMon for maemo, perhaps it can figure it out? Feb 01 08:38:41 I wonder if switching frequencies is reported anywhere to any readable part of sane unix, be it kernel or userland, OR is it handled by firmware of gsm module, transparently Feb 01 08:38:49 without telling us anything at all Feb 01 08:39:13 mhm, there is a way to monitor cell ID of tower youmre connected to Feb 01 08:39:37 Estel_: I know, I had a look through /proc and couldn't find anything, problem is I imagine the GSM/UMTS side of things could be closed src Feb 01 08:40:01 gggs, afaik, everything we get from modem is via modem commands Feb 01 08:40:23 you know, we send it something, it sens response Feb 01 08:41:04 this way, we can determine cellID, and so goes on... but no idea about frequency used, do we have some wiki page with modem commands summed up? Feb 01 08:41:07 supported ones Feb 01 08:41:15 kerio: I have netmon, it shows a bunch of stuff including 'technology' (ie 3G), but not frequency used Feb 01 08:41:45 it's possible that it's there (command to determine band), but not used by anything Feb 01 08:41:54 our of curiosity, why do you need to check that? Feb 01 08:42:38 Estel_: would cellID change if you were using the same tower, different frequency/technology? Feb 01 08:43:38 I'm quite sure, that 3G uses different cellid (if not physical different tower) than 2G Feb 01 08:43:51 but I doubt that it woild change between two 3G's bands Feb 01 08:43:55 In Australia we have 900MHz GSM, but 3G uses either 850MHz, 900MHz, or 2100MHz depending on carrier & location Feb 01 08:44:15 yea, I'm aware of that. But why user need to care? Feb 01 08:44:50 other than fact about 850 mhz being most penetrable and *should* be available inside buildings/far from BT? Feb 01 08:45:00 less power too, maybe? Feb 01 08:45:00 (900 too, btw) Feb 01 08:45:07 because companies market 850MHz/900MHz 3G as `next G'/`yes G', apparently with much greater coverage Feb 01 08:45:26 kerio: in theory, yea Feb 01 08:45:34 well, if they don't suck at pumping power to it, it should have better coverage Feb 01 08:46:06 I doubt practical impact on battery life, unless you're on edge of 2100 range, and got upgrade to 850 pr 900 Feb 01 08:46:16 thing is, 2100MHz towers are used in city/suburban areas for load reasons, and I've no idea if my N900 is using 900MHz, or 2.1GHz Feb 01 08:46:37 gggs, I see, but as long as signal is strong, user shouldn't care? Feb 01 08:46:58 pings or whatever doesn't change, and you can't force using 850 or 900 neither... Feb 01 08:47:14 it would be interesting to know, though Feb 01 08:47:17 if there's a way to know Feb 01 08:47:18 so it's thing for base tower to decide, if you should be connected to it, or not Feb 01 08:47:21 Encapsulation-wise, no, but I want to know when I go out of 2.1GHz band range and start using 900MHz Feb 01 08:47:25 sure, I agree - I would like to know too Feb 01 08:48:09 I see, scientifical curiosity. Well, for the sake of it, I would also like to be able to monitor it... Feb 01 08:48:31 try google'ing wiki.maemo.org domain for "modem' and it's commands Feb 01 08:48:54 if it's not there, it's probably nowhere... In meantime, I'll check something frequency-wise... Feb 01 08:49:10 I could tape a frequency counter to the back of my N900 but that's not very efficient Feb 01 08:50:21 sure ;) Feb 01 08:50:47 well, reportedly, gnu radio cheap dongles can do that too, connected to N900's usb via hostmode... Feb 01 08:51:08 still, if we already have modem, why to use raw radio Feb 01 08:52:03 I've heard software-defined radio is the future, but still rather expensive Feb 01 08:52:11 I'll have a look into modem commands Feb 01 09:01:30 is there a way to tell what version of firmware is currently on my n900? Feb 01 09:02:40 damo22: apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-generic-pr Feb 01 09:02:57 if it's not installed, then you have one of the localized ones, which suck Feb 01 09:03:14 gggs, software defined radio is fine, but won't let you connected to encrypted 3G :P Feb 01 09:03:31 gnu radio dongles I said about are exploiting software defined radio, btw Feb 01 09:04:06 some of them can sniff from 30mhz to 2100 mhz range (with or without few gaps around 1100 mhz) Feb 01 09:04:52 unable to locate package... Feb 01 09:05:04 lol Feb 01 09:05:07 damo22: hrmpf :c Feb 01 09:05:15 damo22: dpkg -l | grep mp-fremantle- Feb 01 09:06:01 Estel_: aegis, right Feb 01 09:06:09 give it time Feb 01 09:06:26 aegis has nothing to do with it Feb 01 09:06:35 it's just that we don't really know wtf is going on with umts Feb 01 09:07:16 mp-fremantle-002-pr 10.36.2.002 Feb 01 09:08:21 then theres 20.20 Feb 01 09:08:44 damo22: no, just the Installed version Feb 01 09:09:08 so is this an old one? might i benefit from flashing? Feb 01 09:09:31 you'll definetely benefit from flashing the global firmware Feb 01 09:09:44 k :) Feb 01 09:11:06 follow the instructions at Feb 01 09:11:07 ~flashing Feb 01 09:11:08 i guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 01 09:14:19 kerio: whoops, I meant whatever encryption 3G uses, I think GSM's has already been reverse-engineered Feb 01 09:19:04 Estel_: I might've found it: "AT!GETBAND?". I have no idea how to test this though Feb 01 09:21:46 gggs: AT!GETBAND? gives ERROR Feb 01 09:23:15 Syntax: Query: AT!GETBAND? \\ Response: !GETBAND: \\ OK \\ or \\ Unknown \\ OK Feb 01 09:23:15 Purpose: Return a description of the current active band, or return an error message. Feb 01 09:23:25 gggs: yeah but it's not a standard command Feb 01 09:23:31 and the n900 doesn't support it, evidently Feb 01 09:23:34 does AT!BAND? do anything? Feb 01 09:23:42 i tried that, too :) no luck Feb 01 09:23:49 hmm Feb 01 09:24:12 if you want to try, run /usr/bin/pnatd as root Feb 01 09:24:18 could be proprietary Feb 01 09:24:18 there's no way to exit from within it, mind you Feb 01 09:30:06 the xterm, or the mode altogether? Feb 01 09:32:11 oh I see Feb 01 09:32:17 yea, and don't make typos Feb 01 09:36:09 some commands at http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1999750 , but none of them seem to work on the N900 Feb 01 09:56:36 gggs: check netmon Feb 01 09:59:04 ooh nm, you already found it Feb 01 10:00:40 generally speaking the channel number is clearly related to the freq and thus band Feb 01 10:15:41 Hi. I would like to know how long it would take for new software to end up in Extras. Feb 01 10:16:15 I am looking for Ubi which is a Ubuntu One synchronisation client for Maemo. It has been submitted to extras-devel a while ago, and is nowhere to be spotted in Extras yet. Feb 01 10:21:52 http://maemo.org/packages/view/ubi Feb 01 10:21:52 It has been submitted almost one year ago. And it is still not in Extras while the wiki mentions after a while things get put in Extras. Feb 01 10:21:58 freddiiiii: first maintainer needs to promote it to extras-testing, which he's supposed to do only after checking it for complience with a number of preconditions. In extras-testing it will need votes by testers who are supposed to again make sure pretty similar preconditions are fulfilled Feb 01 10:28:12 DocScrutinizer05: channel number? Feb 01 10:34:58 DocScrutinizer05, thank you for the information. Feb 01 10:35:22 gggs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands Feb 01 10:35:52 UARFCN Feb 01 10:36:52 UTRA Absolute Radio Frequency Channel Number Feb 01 10:39:40 DocScrutinizer05: where do I find that? doesn't seem to be in NetMon Feb 01 10:43:47 sorry I don't know netmon by heart Feb 01 10:45:42 np, getting closer, might be able to find an AT command for it Feb 01 10:49:55 [notice] FW reboot scheduled for now+5min, lists.m.o back to operational state Feb 01 10:50:16 gggs: pnatd sucks Feb 01 10:50:56 it emulates a very limited set of AT commands, just sufficient for USB-UMTS-modem Feb 01 10:51:48 ah, I see Feb 01 10:52:19 DocScrutinizer05: i thought it was the access we had to rapuyama Feb 01 10:53:02 it is, but our BB5/rapu isn't gifted with a AT interpreter aiui Feb 01 10:53:06 :( Feb 01 10:53:13 what's the "official" interface for it? Feb 01 10:53:18 ISI Feb 01 10:55:24 [notice] FW reboot postponed to *:00 Feb 01 10:56:34 how quick is the FW reboot? i don't think we'd notice Feb 01 11:03:54 DocScrutinizer05: your fw reboot made my home connection reset! D: Feb 01 11:04:44 Are the skeiron.org repositories down? Feb 01 11:04:59 what's worse: it's supposed to already be up again Feb 01 11:05:08 DocScrutinizer05: it is up Feb 01 11:05:10 Ken-Young: are they? Feb 01 11:05:23 Ken-Young: worksforme Feb 01 11:05:49 Not for me, sadly. apt-get update just slowly times out on all of them. Feb 01 11:05:56 are you suuuuuuuuure? Feb 01 11:06:04 DocScrutinizer05: rmo is slow, but loads - eventually Feb 01 11:06:21 rmo is bypassing FW Feb 01 11:06:34 so it better be up! >:-D Feb 01 11:06:43 oh right Feb 01 11:06:51 ...then why is it still slow as fuck? :( Feb 01 11:07:13 kerio, Well, it's possible I typed in all the repository strings incorrectly, but I've checked and checked and rechecked. Feb 01 11:07:13 oh, it became faster all of a sudden Feb 01 11:07:23 because of: 26.7Mbps up, 689kbps down Feb 01 11:07:25 Ken-Young: are you sure that the timeout is on skeiron.org ? Feb 01 11:08:22 Ken-Young: disable every non-skeiron non-merlin1991 non-downloads.maemo.nokia.com repo Feb 01 11:08:45 kerio, Not really. I can ping it successfully. The Nokia repositories (OVI, ect) update properly, but the skeiron ones do not. Feb 01 11:09:06 is it a timeout or a 404? Feb 01 11:09:14 2op "If I disable all non-skeiron repositories, things work properly. Feb 01 11:09:23 kerio timeout Feb 01 11:09:31 ...then it's clearly not skeiron, is it Feb 01 11:10:11 kerio, Why do you say that - I get the errors only when the skeiron repositories are enabled. Feb 01 11:10:37 "all non-skeiron repositories" Feb 01 11:10:47 often, that means that every repository except the skeiron ones Feb 01 11:12:32 kerio They started updating properly. I guess it was a temporary thing. Sorry to waste people's time. Feb 01 11:12:33 anyone seen this problem? http://paste.debian.net/230958/ Feb 01 11:12:46 damo22: using H-E-N? Feb 01 11:13:07 not really Feb 01 11:13:14 oh, that's on your computer? Feb 01 11:13:19 yeah Feb 01 11:13:21 i see, sorry Feb 01 11:13:23 hm Feb 01 11:13:36 im trying to flash this puppy Feb 01 11:13:40 it's either a slightly borked usb port, in which case i hope you have a soldering iron and a steady hand Feb 01 11:13:49 or... hm, did you blacklist cdc_phonet? Feb 01 11:13:57 nope Feb 01 11:14:01 try doing that Feb 01 11:14:04 k Feb 01 11:14:10 although it should still not give usb errors Feb 01 11:14:43 damo22: btw, try changing usb port and/or cable too Feb 01 11:15:04 k Feb 01 11:15:34 could it be my usb host controller not playing nice with usb 1.1? Feb 01 11:15:49 by the way, why is it usb 1.1? Feb 01 11:15:54 shouldn't it be 2.0? Feb 01 11:16:02 no idea Feb 01 11:16:21 this is my first n900 Feb 01 11:16:35 i meant on your computer's side Feb 01 11:16:49 my computer has 2.0 Feb 01 11:16:52 ehci Feb 01 11:17:22 but for some reason when the n900 is plugged in, it tries usb 1.1 Feb 01 11:17:28 afaik Feb 01 11:20:34 this might indicate hw problem Feb 01 11:20:59 also see ~flashing (read *full* page!) Feb 01 11:21:04 ~flashing Feb 01 11:21:04 it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 01 11:21:36 maybe some idiot ruined it and then sold me a borked device Feb 01 11:21:48 damo22: well, the n900's musb port is really, really weak Feb 01 11:21:58 (i thought you said it was a new device, though) Feb 01 11:22:06 do you have another musb B-usb A cable? Feb 01 11:22:10 yes Feb 01 11:23:23 and then there's also been http://www.absolutelytech.com/2010/04/18/solved-unable-to-enumerate-usb-device-disabling-ehci_hcd/ Feb 01 11:23:51 but... 1.1 is slooooooooooooow Feb 01 11:24:17 woot the cable fixed it Feb 01 11:24:32 woot Feb 01 11:24:41 legends Feb 01 11:25:13 damo22: might want to make sure that the "teeth" that hold the cable in place are soft, and put as much graphite powder on the musb plug as you can Feb 01 11:25:31 and always pull straight off the port, never bend Feb 01 11:25:40 also Feb 01 11:25:41 ~usbfix Feb 01 11:25:41 from memory, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Feb 01 11:25:49 ok Feb 01 11:27:34 graphite powder??? :-o use a soft pencil, noob! Feb 01 11:27:43 do i plug the battery back in before flashing the other half? Feb 01 11:27:46 whatevs Feb 01 11:27:49 its not specified Feb 01 11:28:10 damo22: launch new flashing, connect cable, hold u, put battery in Feb 01 11:28:18 damo22: it says "restart from step one", no? Feb 01 11:29:16 this is clearly the most clumsy but absolutely foolproof method Feb 01 11:29:19 DocScrutinizer05: is there a condition check, to avoid infinite loops? Feb 01 11:29:50 yes, "*for the eMMC*, restart with step 1" Feb 01 11:30:15 its a "for x in ; do..." loop Feb 01 11:30:57 it isn't infinite, per definitionem Feb 01 11:33:07 it worked Feb 01 11:33:22 yay Feb 01 11:33:31 damo22: don't put your SIM in yet Feb 01 11:33:42 i havent Feb 01 11:34:28 damo22: install CSSU and after you've done that, uninstall the "cherry" package Feb 01 11:34:41 it's the mynokia premium sms subscription bullshit Feb 01 11:35:00 ahh Feb 01 11:35:22 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Feb 01 11:35:30 follow the instructions religiously Feb 01 11:35:35 ESPECIALLY STEP ONE Feb 01 11:37:02 woot i have 27Gb, used to have 2 Feb 01 12:03:04 anyone with success to install bluemaemo app on nokia n900? Thnx! Feb 01 12:05:21 i tried to install a maemo mirror as the application catalogue, but it has gpg errors? Feb 01 12:07:11 i used extras-testing from maemo-archive.wedrop.it/repository.maemo.org/ Feb 01 12:17:00 my web browser doesnt seem to like the .install script it just loads it as text Feb 01 12:17:49 can i just do some stuff in bash Feb 01 12:18:25 like sudo apt-get install cssu Feb 01 12:18:44 damo22: the original nokia repos have gpg errors; don't install extras-testing but use extras and extras-devel; those two are sufficient to install from extras. Skeiron work for both of them Feb 01 12:19:13 damo22: you have to use the n900's browser Feb 01 12:19:22 thedead1440: repository.maemo.org also works Feb 01 12:19:31 k Feb 01 12:19:54 yeah but its slow 25Mb/s to be shared by everyone so better not hammer it risk it going down :D Feb 01 12:20:13 it's even worse to fuck up the HAM domain information Feb 01 12:20:23 and enabling extras and extras-devel at the same time is worse than useless Feb 01 12:21:11 well i dont want to cause any problems, which repo would use less? Feb 01 12:21:19 damo22: just use repository.maemo.org Feb 01 12:21:24 we have to figure out if it's working anyway Feb 01 12:21:25 k Feb 01 12:24:09 kerio: what? RMO works? Feb 01 12:24:25 freemangordon: i know, right Feb 01 12:24:31 looks frozen to me in my update thing Feb 01 12:24:44 it's just slow as fuck Feb 01 12:24:44 checking for updates, please wait... frozen Feb 01 12:24:56 damo22: how did you install backupmenu? Feb 01 12:25:20 cbf, i can always reflash Feb 01 12:25:49 great, so after i told you to follow the instructions religiously, especially step one, you decide to not follow the instructions religiously, and especially not step one Feb 01 12:26:05 i couldnt work out how anyway Feb 01 12:28:14 i havent installed cssu yet anyway Feb 01 12:29:15 im just getting the updated list of packages then i will install backupmenu Feb 01 12:31:18 afaict its similar to a debian process of apt-get update, apt-get install backupmenu, apt-get install cssu or whatever Feb 01 12:38:34 rmo seems to be working Feb 01 12:38:37 just very slow Feb 01 12:40:11 hopefully my donation helps Feb 01 12:40:17 :) Feb 01 12:51:04 im dying to get sshd working on this thing Feb 01 13:40:41 damo22: just install the openssh package :) Feb 01 13:40:54 it'll also give you root access, because it'll ask you for a new root password Feb 01 13:40:59 done Feb 01 13:41:04 you can do ssh root@localhost if you want root Feb 01 13:41:17 (su doesn't work, it's not suid because busybox is busybox, and it's crap) Feb 01 13:41:22 i recommend configuring sudo Feb 01 13:41:32 and setting passwords for root and user Feb 01 13:41:50 :nod: Feb 01 13:41:54 (don't edit /etc/sudoers manually, make your own file in /etc/sudoers.d/ and then run update-sudoers) Feb 01 13:42:50 if you want a more complete terminal toolkit, follow Feb 01 13:42:52 ~jrtools Feb 01 13:42:52 [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Feb 01 13:43:03 especially the parts regarding the gnu coreutils Feb 01 13:43:18 however, install cssu and backupmenu first Feb 01 13:44:02 DocScrutinizer05: do you reckon that cssu could and/or should nullify cherry in some way? Feb 01 13:44:24 yes, it should, and I think it could Feb 01 13:44:47 in which way? leave cherry installed and touch .cherry_state, or nullify it entirely with a dummy package? Feb 01 13:44:50 should get handled in that general purpose sanity checker app I suggested Feb 01 13:45:20 which also could check supl.nokia|google.com etc Feb 01 13:45:34 kerio so you can suggest a better concept than busybox? Feb 01 13:45:47 NIN101: a better "concept"? Feb 01 13:45:49 sure Feb 01 13:45:52 they're called gnu coreutils Feb 01 13:46:15 for each sanitation you could choose from several options, like "never do"/"do once, now"/"do on every boot"/... Feb 01 13:46:37 busybox is more than just coreutils. But I aggree, given the target audience the "real" tools would be a better choise for maemo at least. Feb 01 13:46:57 DocScrutinizer05: programming UIs sucks, and users are users are dumb Feb 01 13:47:00 ~messybox Feb 01 13:47:00 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Feb 01 13:47:18 "A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils" Feb 01 13:47:27 I guess the idea was "let's take something that doesn't take up huge amounts of time to start up and run, nor does it take a huge amount of space" Feb 01 13:47:32 shouldn't you hate the system integerators :-)? Feb 01 13:47:43 kerio: don't kid me, there's even zenity to handle such simple shit Feb 01 13:47:44 NIN101: toybox Feb 01 13:48:02 ah I think that's landley's project. Feb 01 13:48:07 yep Feb 01 13:48:10 kerio: I could write such "app" with less than 100 lines of bash script Feb 01 13:48:17 currently running it Feb 01 13:48:26 on my desktop, I mean Feb 01 13:51:12 nortti: really? :o Feb 01 13:51:22 why? Feb 01 13:51:30 why not? Feb 01 13:52:09 also it is staticaly linked version compiled against musl libc Feb 01 13:52:43 DocScrutinizer05: Put another way: if we find a better way to do something, we should _not_ say "well, if users want it, they can do this ". If it really is a better way to do something, we should just do it. Requiring user setup is _not_ a feature. Feb 01 13:53:02 (sorry, took a bit of time to find the exact quote) Feb 01 13:53:24 oh and I run modified slitaz without x11 on 12 year old computer with 64MB of RAM. you should guess what kind of person I'm by now Feb 01 13:53:51 nortti: is your desktop also severely resource-constrained? Feb 01 13:54:11 kerio: what's wrong with offering a UI to user, where they can decide if they want to stick with mynokia, or have it nuked? Feb 01 13:54:31 stick with supl.nokia or switch to supl.google Feb 01 13:54:36 kerio: it has 700MHz P3 and 64MB of RAM Feb 01 13:54:40 nortti: nice :-). Feb 01 13:55:04 ouch, 64MB of ram Feb 01 13:55:06 NIN101: want a shell account on it? Feb 01 13:55:31 i feel that my irc bouncer uses more than that Feb 01 13:55:36 :P Feb 01 13:55:56 it really isn't that bad if you don't have x11 running Feb 01 13:55:57 nortti: if you're a real man, use it as a seedbox Feb 01 13:55:59 that's why satan invented swap Feb 01 13:56:45 kerio: why? I use my 100MHz P1 with 40MB of RAM for that Feb 01 13:57:00 lol Feb 01 13:57:31 kerio: and you don't want to know what I used in 2009 Feb 01 13:57:39 Hello, i need some help restoring my rom on the n900. its standard CSSU rom with Uboot, but it recently broke, meaing all widgets overlay each other and make it unusable Feb 01 13:57:40 as my main computer Feb 01 13:57:48 wtf P1? Feb 01 13:57:56 where do i get a vanilla rom for the n900, or at least a "VERY" stable usable Feb 01 13:57:58 DocScrutinizer05: yes? Feb 01 13:58:08 nfc Feb 01 13:58:39 nortti: you're probably paying enough in electricity to afford to buy a sheevaplug and still come up ahead Feb 01 13:58:44 what is that? a modemrouter? Feb 01 13:58:44 or a rpi Feb 01 13:59:01 kerio, rpi would be a nice replacement :D Feb 01 13:59:08 DocScrutinizer05: i assume he means a pentium Feb 01 13:59:15 ooh Feb 01 13:59:28 which is not "frugal" by any means, unless you're stealing your electricity Feb 01 13:59:34 kerio: my main computer has about 50W power and P1 has 100W Feb 01 13:59:54 compare that to a much, much, much, much, MUCH faster sheevaplug, which uses 5W at max load Feb 01 14:00:40 kerio: too new but I guess I could buy one in 2014 Feb 01 14:00:49 i just... don't get it Feb 01 14:01:06 I don't buy computers newer than 5 years old Feb 01 14:01:15 yes, and i don't get it Feb 01 14:01:30 and I use them until I can't do everything I want with them Feb 01 14:01:47 two years of running that crappy P1 will cost you much, much more than a sheevaplug and two years of energy for it Feb 01 14:02:00 my last slow PC been a P-II/300 with some 498MB ram, my last 'small' laptop a pana toughbook CF-25 with also P-II/300 and 128MB Feb 01 14:02:32 I still own one of the latter Feb 01 14:02:47 DocScrutinizer05: battery life? Feb 01 14:03:01 *shrug*, never tried it Feb 01 14:03:05 haha Feb 01 14:03:05 mine was P2-300 with 256MB, 233mmx before that Feb 01 14:03:08 probably battery is dead Feb 01 14:04:16 got a CF-29 now, with rather good battery Feb 01 14:04:40 for the mad max missions Feb 01 14:05:02 I should probably post an article here that explains my rationale if it wasn't written in finish :/ Feb 01 14:05:42 nortti: did you work for nokia? Feb 01 14:06:09 i feel that there's no excuse, if only for the environmental problem Feb 01 14:06:22 orlok: no Feb 01 14:08:20 kerio: what kind of psu do you have? Feb 01 14:08:50 laptop battery :) Feb 01 14:09:03 ok Feb 01 14:09:27 then the watt comparision could be pretty hard... Feb 01 14:09:46 ok, let's compare it to my sheevaplug then Feb 01 14:10:09 but I usually like to point that out to people with 1000W PSUs critizing my computer for being a power hog Feb 01 14:10:27 ok, let's compare it to the sheevaplug Feb 01 14:10:29 5W Feb 01 14:10:30 at max load Feb 01 14:10:39 do you use sheevaplug? Feb 01 14:11:11 as a file server/print server/bittorrent client Feb 01 14:11:22 if you don't you seem like a hypocrite to me to be honest Feb 01 14:11:56 however, i do Feb 01 14:12:07 ok Feb 01 14:12:16 fair enough Feb 01 14:13:45 yes, my computer will lose to sheevaplug in energy usage, however the ecological footprint will be very hard to measure Feb 01 14:18:40 ecological footprint of old rocks in continued usage as opposed to getting new stuff with new chips and new younameit is generally hard to beat Feb 01 14:19:48 DocScrutinizer05: in which sense? Feb 01 14:19:56 ecological penalty for producing a new computer will most likely beat all power it might consume during its life Feb 01 14:20:15 exactly Feb 01 14:20:31 hands down, even Feb 01 14:20:59 DocScrutinizer05: even stuff like a P1? Feb 01 14:21:41