**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 18 02:59:58 2013 Feb 18 03:32:05 [03:17] if you increase the volume above about a third (never mind you're listening to a quiet speech podcast), you have yo remove the device from pocket, open case, unlock, press the up button again, and accept the 'too loud may damage your hearing, before putting it away again Feb 18 03:32:12 [03:17] and there is no way to make this persistent Feb 18 03:32:16 w-h-hat? Feb 18 03:32:52 cheesus, candidacy for most idiotic "innovation" in mobile devices world Feb 18 03:33:14 it's presumably for some jurisdiction worldwide Feb 18 03:33:27 and yes Feb 18 03:33:37 not only the whole concept, but, wtf, audio level is much more dependent on headphones than output power Feb 18 03:33:50 there at least needs to be 'yes, I've read and understand this' Feb 18 03:34:08 sure, but once for a system reflash should be enough... Feb 18 03:34:56 I have special mini-earphones, that I never use above 30% volume on N900, as it would be too loud, even in noisy enviromnent. Other pairs could be too quiet on 80% Feb 18 03:35:05 indeed Feb 18 03:35:20 it reminds me of "land fish" in EU legislation Feb 18 03:35:53 BTW, anyone know where maemo's default image-viewer keeps it's thumbnails? Feb 18 03:36:58 Some time ago I moved saving photos to encrypted partition, then, today, I've realized, that I'm not sure if thumbnails aren't saved on opt anyway Feb 18 05:28:36 Well, I'll answer myself - /home/user/.thumbnails Feb 18 05:33:18 and to my own surprise, I've moved it to encrypted partition during 1st time when I've decided to use boot-time mounted encrypted one for sensitive data (then completely forget about doing it, already) Feb 18 05:39:09 hmm...so it actually uses standardized XDG thumbnails? nice Feb 18 06:02:52 hmm... bluestacks needs a maemo port... :D Feb 18 07:36:08 qwazix: ping Feb 18 07:50:08 thedead1440, I'm on the move now, I'll ping you in about an hour. Feb 18 09:19:24 thedead1440, ping Feb 18 09:33:53 qwazix: Just wanted to say sorry if unintended damage is done by me. Feb 18 09:34:17 thedead1440, damage regarding what? Feb 18 09:34:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1323567&postcount=2 Feb 18 09:38:07 I don't think there will be a problem with that, but let's see. It's good that it isn't only us complaining. Feb 18 09:38:55 I don't know for me personally that minutes were one step too far so I don't speak for Council but I wouldn't be surprised if the BoD lump me as the one and the same because of skeiron Feb 18 09:41:31 I also believe that any effort approaching other FOSS project must first be discussed on tmo, and see what people have to say. The jolla questions sheet is much better approach than doing official letters Feb 18 09:43:30 indeed Feb 18 09:44:12 From where did Ubuntu come in the picture? Its one more avenue relations will go beyond repair as we have seen with the botched Jolla discussions Feb 18 12:57:53 thedead1440: +1 Feb 18 12:58:24 thanks :) Feb 18 13:28:02 any way to create an account to maemo.org forum? Feb 18 13:28:28 waited for like 3 months for registeration email, or reply from admin Feb 18 13:28:32 no luck Feb 18 13:29:02 what the hell? Try checking the spam folder, try registering again... Feb 18 13:29:03 (yes, ive had it resent for like million times) Feb 18 13:29:21 you sure there's no stupid little typo in the e-mail? Feb 18 13:29:24 nope, i dont have a spam folder and my email works perfect Feb 18 13:29:27 a small hidden " i " perhaps :P Feb 18 13:29:31 yes, im sure Feb 18 13:29:42 because "resend" page says my email is correct Feb 18 13:29:44 What e-mail do you use? Feb 18 13:29:57 I mean not the actual e-mail, the , i don't know how it is called, after @ Feb 18 13:30:04 @blbb.net Feb 18 13:30:21 welho.com, which is a major finnish internet service provider Feb 18 13:30:34 chem|st, look ^^ Feb 18 13:31:20 its funny, because i can log in to maemo.org forums, but i cant reply to any threads because my account isnt activated Feb 18 13:31:30 doesnt stop me from sending private messages, though Feb 18 13:31:59 yet i cant report a bug because "my account doesnt exist" Feb 18 13:36:25 parasemic: fun! Feb 18 13:36:42 hmm, apparently now i got the email Feb 18 13:36:58 seems like the forums email servers had been down for months Feb 18 13:37:02 or something Feb 18 13:37:03 dunno Feb 18 13:38:49 i do have another question though, as the #harmattan seems pretty much dead at the moment.. how on earth can my N9's terminal ask "Do you want to continue [Y/n]" and typing Y aborts the installation Feb 18 13:39:46 nevermind, #harmattan came alive Feb 18 14:55:44 Hey maemoers. I'm getting an error when trying to install packages via apt-get: Feb 18 14:55:56 let me guess Feb 18 14:56:00 hashsum mismatch? Feb 18 14:56:00 E: Encountered a section with no Package: header Feb 18 14:56:01 E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle-1.3_non-free_binary-armel_Packages Feb 18 14:56:01 E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. Feb 18 14:56:08 o_O Feb 18 14:56:10 merlin1991: Heh, actually I had that one a few weeks back Feb 18 14:56:12 that ones more interesting Feb 18 14:57:00 s/interesting/frustrating/ :-/ Feb 18 14:57:02 narcos: as root do a rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* followed by apt-get update Feb 18 14:57:54 shall I remove the directory /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ too? Feb 18 14:58:04 no just the files in there Feb 18 14:59:59 dafuq. I can only hit port 80 - 443 or other ports get rejected. What kind of mobile provider is this. Feb 18 15:00:16 must be American then... Feb 18 15:00:45 Nope :P Feb 18 15:01:03 * thedead1440 is shocked :p Feb 18 15:21:08 What's the latest version of Python I can get running on a N900 ? Feb 18 15:21:12 Python 2.5.4 is super old. Feb 18 15:21:52 sth in my maemo-xchat fsckd up. It doesn't reconnect anymore when switching from wlan to GPRS Feb 18 15:22:24 narcos: 2.7 should be in the repos iirc Feb 18 15:22:29 just sits pretending it's connected Feb 18 15:22:58 thedead1440: ahh, ok *checks* Feb 18 15:23:03 thedead1440: I don't think there's any damage done Feb 18 15:23:15 wrong chan DocScrutinizer51 :p Feb 18 15:23:35 /timer -repeat 0 600 allserv ping Feb 18 15:24:31 it gets confusing with more than 10 chan on maemo xchat Feb 18 15:24:49 take your time it isn't urgent Feb 18 15:30:36 Comma splice. Don't edit tired with a glass of alcohol in your hand. D: Feb 18 15:41:47 thedead1440: I don't see Python 2.7 in 'apt-cache search python' Feb 18 15:42:42 Hmm @ "Dropped 2.5 Support. (Backwards Incompatible)" for Python requests Feb 18 15:42:56 python2.7 - Interactive high-level object-oriented language (version 2.7) Feb 18 15:44:17 ah Feb 18 15:44:30 its on extras-devel Feb 18 15:45:22 Right - so I need to add that repository then? Feb 18 15:45:44 yup use merlin's extras-devel Feb 18 15:45:47 ~mirrors Feb 18 15:45:47 LOL @ "Extras-devel is an unstable repository for testing unstable community software. It is recommended only for developers and adventurous users willing to test potentially harmful software." Feb 18 15:45:47 well, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Feb 18 15:46:01 the last one extras-devel.merlin1991.at Feb 18 15:46:19 yeah, that's the only 100%-working extras-devel mirror Feb 18 15:46:25 because it's not a mirror Feb 18 15:46:28 download this file on your device and it will add it: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/extras-devel-light.install Feb 18 15:47:19 thedead1440: Great, thanks Feb 18 15:47:25 np Feb 18 15:47:40 Hm, what type of file is that? Feb 18 15:48:15 Actually, I assume I need to browse to it via the UI interface on the phone Feb 18 15:48:23 ( I'm ssh'd in ) Feb 18 15:48:36 narcos: yeah, open it with the browser Feb 18 15:48:38 or with HAM Feb 18 15:49:01 or put "deb http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free" in a sources.list Feb 18 15:51:24 k super, opened it via the file manager Feb 18 15:51:36 odd that /etc/apt/sources.list is an empty file? Feb 18 15:51:51 because all are in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ Feb 18 15:51:53 they are in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Feb 18 15:52:57 gotcha :) Feb 18 15:54:13 narcos: weirdly enough, python2.7 is actually 2.7.3rc2 Feb 18 15:55:05 what would maemo do if I changed the default password hash in /etc/passwd from '!' to a real hash? Feb 18 15:55:18 eccerr0r: the same as "passwd" Feb 18 15:56:11 right, i was intending to do that, wondering what the consequences of it are... Feb 18 15:56:23 no consequences Feb 18 15:56:29 except that you can login via ssh Feb 18 15:57:04 is the repo still down? Feb 18 15:57:15 jargon: it's been up for quite some time now Feb 18 15:57:16 oh. says it's back in the chan title Feb 18 15:57:25 except that extras-devel is still borked Feb 18 15:57:30 good... i just didn't want it to go haywire which is a possibility :D Feb 18 15:57:36 kerio: really? hmmm. Feb 18 15:57:46 kerio: aah. no wonder. it's probably that,then Feb 18 15:57:49 ok thanks Feb 18 15:57:56 eccerr0r: a better question is: why aren't you taking regular backups? Feb 18 15:58:07 jargon: extras-devel.merlin1991.at is a working "mirror" for extras-devel Feb 18 15:58:10 installing frontcamera on my n900 will have to wait then Feb 18 15:58:16 jargon: nope Feb 18 15:58:21 kerio: ah ok Feb 18 15:59:22 restoring takes time, if there's a way to know the consequences beforehand, all the better Feb 18 16:02:47 Oddballs, DNS seems to have failed. There's no /etc/resolv.conf - how does maemo handle DNS ? Feb 18 16:03:47 Hm, dnsmasq by the looks of things Feb 18 16:05:20 narcos: etc/resolv.conf has localhost only. dnsmasq Feb 18 16:05:21 narcos: there should be a /etc/resolv.conf Feb 18 16:06:49 Pali: there is nothing wrong with email or anything... only people having a spamtool rejecting instead of flagging emails and I am so sorry that I do not give a fsck! Feb 18 16:07:44 chem|st: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qn8lljCs1rrmergo1_400.gif Feb 18 16:10:47 stop trolling me Feb 18 16:15:17 kerio, DocScrutinizer51: Odd. I rebooted and now it works. Feb 18 16:15:34 what did you do? Feb 18 16:17:09 I started the apt-get install for python2.7 - halfway through DNS started failing. There was no /etc/resolv.conf file, so I added one, that didn't help, but post-reboot DNS is back. Feb 18 16:18:04 riiiiiiight Feb 18 16:18:12 i believe you Feb 18 16:18:25 heh Feb 18 16:18:45 Ummm, I don't think I did anything else - apt was running, I was just watching :) Feb 18 16:19:16 that sounds like scratchbox Feb 18 16:20:49 by the way, why does maemo use dnsmasq as a local dns? Feb 18 16:21:00 to cache? Feb 18 16:32:36 Odd - I think it was more than DNS that went down the first time. It's down again, but I can't even ping my gateway Feb 18 16:33:40 * narcos grumbles Feb 18 16:36:39 kerio, yes, and to handle changing resolver IPs Feb 18 16:37:07 ShadowJK: hm, how does ICD2 "talk" to dnsmasq? Feb 18 16:37:59 nfi Feb 18 16:44:35 kerio: most probably by creating files in /var/*/*/*resolv.conf Feb 18 16:45:08 or maybe not at all? Feb 18 16:45:40 maybe dnsmask just monitoring routes or sth? Feb 18 16:45:48 or interfaces? Feb 18 16:46:00 dns is a whole different thing Feb 18 16:46:09 it's not a property of the interface Feb 18 16:46:25 sure it is Feb 18 16:46:52 each interface has its own NS, usually offered thru DHCP Feb 18 16:48:04 DocScrutinizer06: unix interfaces, however, don't know or care about the dns Feb 18 16:48:34 it's either statically configured in resolv.conf or some dhcp client sets it Feb 18 16:48:43 that doesn't mean that dnsmasq doesn't care about interfaces Feb 18 16:49:23 Sure, but there's no NS associated with interfaces unless dnsmasq itself internally tracks such a thing, in which case we're back to the question of "how does ICD2 'talk' to dnsmasq?" :) Feb 18 16:49:33 exactly Feb 18 16:50:14 Man, powerco cut power for maintenance today, semi-unannounced. Still cleaning up the mess on my workstation Feb 18 16:53:37 :-((( Feb 18 16:53:41 sue them Feb 18 16:53:45 hahaha Feb 18 16:55:12 hm, i might as well just uninstall backupmenu i think Feb 18 17:04:15 codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8 Feb 18 17:04:20 what the fuck is going on there :s Feb 18 17:20:39 ~listvalues extras-devel.merlin1991 Feb 18 17:20:40 Factoid search of 'extras-devel.merlin1991' by value (1): #maemo mirror. Feb 18 17:22:44 - [1] Pidgin Security Advisory #65 vom 2013-02-13 Feb 18 17:22:45 Feb 18 17:22:47 - [2] Pidgin Security Advisory #66 vom 2013-02-13 Feb 18 17:22:48 Feb 18 17:22:50 - [3] Pidgin Security Advisory #67 vom 2013-02-13 Feb 18 17:22:51 Feb 18 17:49:30 Hi, folks. Feb 18 17:50:35 I hope this is not a FAQ, but my previous research didn't get me any results: Is there some mirror of the latest N900-firmware-files out there? Or does somebody now where to get them? Nokia-Servers seem to be down(?) Feb 18 17:51:13 skeiron Feb 18 17:51:21 ~mirror Feb 18 17:51:21 it has been said that mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Feb 18 17:51:56 skeiron.org/tablets-dev Feb 18 17:55:15 bef0rd: Ah, thank you very much! Feb 18 17:55:33 np Feb 18 17:57:04 bef0rd: I guess Nokia is not going to re-offer those, are they? Feb 18 17:57:30 I wouldn't know Feb 18 17:57:58 kk Feb 18 18:02:35 ~skeiron Feb 18 18:02:36 methinks skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Feb 18 18:03:39 ülease pester Nokia (via care, fb, whatever) since they are NOT SUPPOSED TO LET THAT SERVER DOWN Feb 18 18:04:02 please* Feb 18 18:05:01 please also send a mail to board@maemo.org with a rewuest to take care! Feb 18 18:05:10 dang! Feb 18 18:05:14 request* Feb 18 18:06:03 DocScrutinizer05: I'll surely do. Feb 18 18:06:24 many thanks! Feb 18 18:07:18 you're welcome to mention you contacted council (Joerg) and they told you there's nothing they can or are supposed to do about it Feb 18 18:07:40 DocScrutinizer05: many thanks! Feb 18 18:08:06 and that Nokia never annouced they'd take down ANY *.maemo.com domain/server Feb 18 18:09:15 please don't mention skeiron (or any other of the mirrors9 to them Feb 18 18:09:23 s(9)/)/ Feb 18 18:09:33 meh Feb 18 18:10:01 I'm honestly wasted Feb 18 18:10:10 can't even type anymore Feb 18 18:10:35 "maemo" shall be my epitaph Feb 18 18:12:21 insane. :-( Feb 18 18:12:56 (the unannounced downing) Feb 18 18:13:00 Ridiculous. »Uuuh, but we signed that contract to Microsoft with our bloood!« Feb 18 18:13:21 you missed pidgin advisory #68 :) Feb 18 18:13:34 o.O Feb 18 18:13:40 http://pidgin.im/news/security/?id=68 Feb 18 18:13:47 *burrp* Feb 18 18:14:34 my affiliation to security news is only remote Feb 18 18:15:03 I haven't even checked those Feb 18 18:15:33 just did a c&p to let whomever-it-may-concern know a bout it Feb 18 18:16:16 my todo list has no space for eating or sleeping since ~8 weeks now Feb 18 18:16:32 Anyone got Python requests working on their Maemo? when running 'python2.7 setup.py install' I get a simple message of 'Aborted' (?!) Feb 18 18:16:35 :-\ Feb 18 18:16:59 narcos: wat Feb 18 18:17:03 which setup.py? Feb 18 18:17:06 and why aren't you using pip? Feb 18 18:17:27 kerio: Sorry - the setup.py from requests-foo.tar.gz Feb 18 18:17:38 you (maemo community) are just lucky i lost my job, otherwise nothing of all this shite of last 2 months got accomplished Feb 18 18:17:45 kerio: Which package would pip be in? I don't see it Feb 18 18:18:14 eventually this must change Feb 18 18:18:25 narcos: you basically should not install anything as a system-level library, except for distribute, pip and virtualenv Feb 18 18:18:39 and obviously, libraries from your distribution Feb 18 18:18:42 can't sustain this operation mode for any much time longer Feb 18 18:18:54 DocScrutinizer05: btw, are you also looking for a job in the meantime? Feb 18 18:19:01 no time Feb 18 18:19:27 :-( Feb 18 18:19:51 well, i forwarded my CV to Falk Feb 18 18:21:34 ~ Feb 18 18:21:55 Was iphh chosen for colo? Feb 18 18:22:05 or still no decission? Feb 18 18:22:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Feb 18 18:23:46 kerio: I can't seem to find python-pip. I have easy_install, but it seems to be trying to install python2.5 modules Feb 18 18:23:50 ohh, cool there is an update now :) Thx Feb 18 18:24:01 narcos: python2.7 doesn't have a lot of support in maemo Feb 18 18:24:19 n900-dk: also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89213 Feb 18 18:24:26 you'll have to install distribute and pip manually Feb 18 18:24:30 kerio: Alas why I was downloading and installing packages directly :) Feb 18 18:24:42 ( python packages that is ) Feb 18 18:24:48 then /opt/python27/local/bin/pip install virtualenv Feb 18 18:25:09 (as root) Feb 18 18:25:18 then /opt/python27/local/bin/virtualenv somedirectory Feb 18 18:25:25 then . somedirectory/bin/activate Feb 18 18:25:28 the iphh guys are really nice :) Feb 18 18:25:36 then (as user) pip install whateveryouwant Feb 18 18:25:42 but what about hardware failure ? Feb 18 18:25:44 "deactivate" to leave the virtualenv Feb 18 18:25:53 kerio: OK - I'm tryign that now Feb 18 18:25:55 M4rtinK: falk lives 10 minutes away from the datacenter Feb 18 18:25:55 is the server from Nokia under warranty ? Feb 18 18:26:12 kerio: good Feb 18 18:38:05 kerio: Awesome, that worked :) Feb 18 18:38:18 virtualenv is godly Feb 18 18:38:37 Actually still don't know what it is Feb 18 18:38:38 * narcos Googles Feb 18 18:39:38 Any list on maemo.org of Council and Board members? Feb 18 18:39:42 kerio: Godly you say? Nice. Feb 18 18:42:59 Hmm, or did it. Feb 18 19:05:02 n900-dk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council http://hildonfoundation.org/about/ Feb 18 19:08:57 sixwheeledbeast: How to find without your help? Feb 18 19:10:11 the link 'Community Council' in right panel on http://maemo.org/community/ links to some meeting minutes.. Feb 18 19:10:50 n900-dk i see your point Feb 18 19:11:31 I'm puzzled on what to find on mo and what to find on wmo.. Feb 18 19:11:59 I updated the CC page so I knew it's location. There no info on the wiki for board tho. Feb 18 19:13:19 kerio: Any idea why my installation of 'requests' via pip inside the virtual env failed? - http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=p3qSfWrq Feb 18 19:13:29 "Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code -6 in /root/ve01/build/requests" Feb 18 19:14:11 idk, maybe you're missing some library? Feb 18 19:14:13 I suppose the wiki should be the most up to date due to the fact all can update it. Feb 18 19:14:33 kerio: OK - I'll dig some more Feb 18 19:16:01 m.o always seems out of date. take the news section for example. Feb 18 19:17:04 sixwheeledbeast: yes, it is kind of a joke. Maybe I should starting on the wiki from now on Feb 18 19:18:06 :nod: Feb 18 19:21:20 unless your looking for board info :) Feb 18 20:30:24 hmm Feb 18 20:30:51 you know, on the top of the battery (opposite side of the contact), there's some kind of black shell.. I assume it's some kind of protective.. thing Feb 18 20:31:04 apparently it has disappeared completely on one of my batteries Feb 18 20:31:06 is this.. bad? Feb 18 20:31:29 battery seems to work fine, but uh, yeah Feb 18 20:37:06 FIQ: Assuming you're talking about the N900, yes. It's just a plastic shell part to make it line up better and remain snug. Feb 18 20:37:23 FIQ: Most aftermarket batteries don't have it, as they want every mm for battery. :) Feb 18 21:08:34 sixwheeled|away: could you use my tmo avatar picture for http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council ? Feb 18 21:10:47 wiki is sloooooooow Feb 18 21:11:11 btw, didn't ivgalvez resign from the council, too? Feb 18 21:23:29 I think so, yes Feb 18 21:25:48 so the council members don't know who's in and out? :) Feb 18 21:28:59 * n900-dk wonders if the council could use some kind of secretary Feb 18 21:32:02 Woody14619: I see Feb 18 21:32:15 well no idea how it disappeared but I guess there's no problem then Feb 18 21:38:32 kerio: Technically, to resign from Board one must do so in writing to the other members. So there's at least a few days window (postage). Feb 18 21:38:58 fucking lawyers Feb 18 21:39:14 Council is more willy-nilly.... One can resign, hop in and out of elections... etc. :) Feb 18 21:39:26 * Woody14619 pokes fun and waits for a slap from Doc. ; Feb 18 21:41:48 Well.. since Board is a legal entity... it must be legal (since it could involve lawyers). Feb 18 21:43:04 Just want to make sure it's clear, since legally one thing is different from another. And if someone goes crazy with it, having such disctinctions clearly know is to our benefit as a whole. Feb 18 21:43:13 * Woody14619 drops out of lawyer mode. :) Feb 18 21:45:42 ah crap, you're a lawyer, aren't you Feb 18 21:48:21 Gentlemen. Feb 18 21:48:29 Tomorrow, I'm finally getting a N900 \o/ Feb 18 21:48:43 \o/ Feb 18 21:48:47 you're quite late, aren't you Feb 18 21:48:56 Quite. Feb 18 21:49:12 why were you here? Feb 18 21:49:21 To absorb the atmosphere. Feb 18 21:49:28 apart from that? Feb 18 21:49:38 Absorb knowledge? Feb 18 21:50:16 do you have a n9? Feb 18 21:50:18 a n8x0? Feb 18 21:50:52 I have only N95, N97 and C2-00 ... Feb 18 21:50:54 Aoyagi: congrats Feb 18 21:51:03 then... why were you here? D: Feb 18 21:51:07 i don't understand Feb 18 21:51:17 Aoyagi: Why did you choose the n900? Feb 18 21:51:47 * freemangordon likes "the n900" :D Feb 18 21:51:55 kerio: Because I intended to buy an N900. I have intended so since December. Feb 18 21:52:10 i see Feb 18 21:52:13 n900-dk: Linux, keyboard, no google. Feb 18 21:52:36 Aoyagi: well, you kinda /have/ to use supl.google.com for AGPS Feb 18 21:52:37 me too - but just thought new smartphone owners would choose something else this late i the n900 lifespan Feb 18 21:52:45 no windows, no gates, apache inside :D Feb 18 21:53:20 kerio: See, my absorbing of knowledge didn't seem to work so I have no idea what AGPS.... oh, A-GPS. Feb 18 21:53:26 no google, keyboard only, final destination Feb 18 21:53:57 (slap) totally irrelevant sidenote: figue what we would have got now when hoping in and out of elections wasn't done by me Feb 18 21:54:15 kerio: what is supposed "keyboard only" to mean? Feb 18 21:54:15 For the record, I really like the high-end Windows phones, I just don't trust MS anymore :D Feb 18 21:54:38 Aoyagi: and you trust Nokia?? Feb 18 21:54:39 we for sure had a one-man council now: Niel Feb 18 21:54:53 DocScrutinizer05: wait, what? Feb 18 21:54:55 n900-dk: I did trust them at the time when they made these phones. Feb 18 21:55:21 And I kind of still do. Even though the whole Ovi things makes me nauseated. Feb 18 21:56:09 freemangordon: eh? Feb 18 21:56:11 * Woody14619 only recalls one "one-man council", that being Rob at the end of the term before I became Council. As he was the only active Council member for most of his cycle. Feb 18 21:56:16 Aoyagi: but you do know, that they are abandoning it now? Feb 18 21:56:31 of course they are Feb 18 21:56:34 there's the windows store now Feb 18 21:56:36 You mean Maemo? Feb 18 21:56:39 Oh, you mean Ovi. Feb 18 21:56:48 No, I did not know that. Feb 18 21:57:02 Woody14619: MT ans qwazix weren't in, ivgalvez resigned, and I would have quit long ago Feb 18 21:57:04 Not that it was relevant if they're abandoning that for MS store. Feb 18 21:57:22 DocScrutinizer05: oh, misread the "had" part Feb 18 21:57:23 I mean maemo - guess there isn't much usefull for n900 on Ovi anyway Feb 18 21:57:38 hah Feb 18 21:57:54 Well, they have been abandoning Maemo for quite a while, haven't they. Feb 18 21:58:10 guess you are right Feb 18 21:58:13 which means Nieldk was our only council member right now, and thus we basically were pretty screwed Feb 18 21:58:24 maybe angry birds is still on Ovi :) Feb 18 21:58:40 n900-dk: maemo has been abandoned by nokia sisnce october 2010 Feb 18 21:58:41 it is Feb 18 21:58:44 apt-get install angrybirds Feb 18 21:58:46 or something Feb 18 21:59:10 *since Feb 18 21:59:19 DocScrutinizer05: All the more reason to get that referendum in place and the voting booth up again, to prevent just that. Feb 18 21:59:25 that long? Feb 18 21:59:37 PR1.3 Feb 18 21:59:52 n900-dk: and yet, we (the community) are only getting in control of maemo right now Feb 18 22:00:16 So that, like with Board, < 3 active members triggers a new election. (And time-outs on missing meetings leading to dropping.) Feb 18 22:00:18 hmm, time fly when you have fun with your n900 :) Feb 18 22:00:28 That I hope. Feb 18 22:01:12 Right now, worst case all of Board went away, 2 months later (eg 2 missed meetings by existing members) makes them all defacto out, and triggers a new election. Same should be there for Council, IMHO. Feb 18 22:02:42 sounds reasonable Feb 18 22:02:54 (And is, in the Foundation Council portion of the Board Bylaws. We just need to pass a referendum to the effect that Council elections now function as defined by said version of those Bylaws. Feb 18 22:03:42 wtf is a foundation council? Feb 18 22:03:49 And since changing those Bylaws takes a major effort and votes by Board and Council... Feb 18 22:04:13 ... this sounds like politics. Feb 18 22:04:15 Foundation Council is the Council body that was formed under Hildon Foundation to encapsulate the function of Council. Feb 18 22:04:39 Woody14619: are you sure you are out of lawyer mode? :P Feb 18 22:04:39 I don't want to get encapsulated Feb 18 22:05:07 I specifically ran the last election so that it followed the rules of both Maemo Council, and Foundation Council, so it would "work" under both rules, and thus could be considered one body elect with two "hats". Feb 18 22:05:56 The idea being that Council could then referendum itself to being Foundation Council after the break with Nokia, and follow those (slightly altered) rules for elections and such. Feb 18 22:06:45 Is there a wiki article on Maemo politics? Feb 18 22:06:47 Community council never been depending in its existence from Nokia, so why would it want to be dependant from HiFo? Feb 18 22:06:58 Aoyagi: don't go there Feb 18 22:07:18 No really, I find these things fascinating. Feb 18 22:07:31 Define dependent? Last I looked, Nokia was footing the bill for everything until January... Feb 18 22:07:40 Woody14619: not tmo Feb 18 22:07:55 kerio: includding TMO Feb 18 22:08:06 oh, nokia was paying for it? Feb 18 22:08:10 True kerio, to some extent... TMO was initially ITT, separatly funded. But TMO has been getting funded by Nokia for some time now. Feb 18 22:08:14 i see Feb 18 22:08:51 Do we have an idea of longterm plans for maemo OS and community? Feb 18 22:08:54 there's that one emergency hatch that the Nokia representative could nuke council when it acts extremely against community's interest or damaging to Nokia Feb 18 22:08:56 So yes, it existed politically as a separate item... As it does under HiFo. Feb 18 22:09:39 Yes, but HiFo lacks that really. The only "hatch" is has right now is the same one Council has against it. Feb 18 22:10:05 which is? Feb 18 22:10:21 Both can call for a joint election of both bodies. So to "nuke" Council, they'd also take the risk of being booted themselves. Feb 18 22:10:22 the BIG nuke? Feb 18 22:10:31 ooh Feb 18 22:11:14 DocScrutinizer05: why didn't you also join board, btw? Feb 18 22:11:15 I'll note it takes unanimous consent from the body to pull that off on one side or the other. (Another reason I was so-so on people running for both bodies...) Feb 18 22:12:03 kerio: sd69 bullied me out Feb 18 22:12:22 Right now, that hatch is only 1/2 effective. Since Council has not adopted the rules to match the bylaws (yet). Feb 18 22:12:34 Because, rightfully so, they've had better things to worry about. Feb 18 22:12:34 hm, a friend of mine plays Nomic quite heavily, perhaps we could've asked him how to make unabusable bylaws Feb 18 22:14:21