**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 24 02:59:58 2013 Feb 24 07:23:30 moooOOOOooo Feb 24 07:24:06 WizardNumberNext: have a look into alarmed app Feb 24 07:25:29 you either want to use alarmed GUI, or alarmed CLI, or alarmed sourcecode for an example how to use alarmd(aemon) Feb 24 07:26:31 alarmclient feels kinda like PITA Feb 24 09:45:24 M4rtinK, thanks :) Bts, out of curiosity, what those "foot", "train", "bus", etc modes are supposed to do? Feb 24 09:45:42 I though that bus will use public communication data for routing, but, apparently it doesn't Feb 24 09:45:53 now I see that *some*of them change layout Feb 24 09:46:33 i.e. train displays lattitude and loingtittude (?!) on main screen, and bicycle displays distance bike'd, + max speed and avrage speed Feb 24 09:46:39 train display current time Feb 24 09:47:05 it would be *really* nice, if one could configure what is displayed manually, per mode Feb 24 09:47:27 for example I need time much more when "on foot" than when in car (cars usually have own time display) Feb 24 09:47:38 just a suggestion, again :) Feb 24 09:48:45 Estel_: it basically works like you describe it :) Feb 24 09:49:04 you can change what is displayed in user_config.conf Feb 24 09:49:09 in the modrana profile Feb 24 09:49:29 but the info widgets are rather basic Feb 24 09:49:55 other than that, you can bind option values to modes in Options Feb 24 09:50:13 sou you can have like different layer in foot mode than in car mode Feb 24 09:50:54 and it actually also changes if you get car, walking or bike directions, if available Feb 24 09:51:56 no public transport routing yet, though I have found out recently that the Google API can do it now Feb 24 09:55:03 M4rtinK, thanks, forge about per mode options Feb 24 09:55:16 and nice to know that one can change "widgets" from user_config Feb 24 09:55:33 any particular reason why no gui options for that, or just lack of time to write it just yet? :P Feb 24 09:55:45 exactly that :) Feb 24 09:56:00 IMHO it should really be user configurable Feb 24 09:56:36 or more like interactively configurable Feb 24 09:56:49 but haven't got to that Feb 24 09:56:57 for like 2 years already :) Feb 24 09:57:04 always something more pressing :) Feb 24 09:57:54 I'm thinking about making it a two part object Feb 24 09:58:17 with one part providing the data Feb 24 09:58:37 No surprise here, it's really awesome program, looking like it's written by dedicated team, not single person - kudos for what is already available Feb 24 09:59:07 and another part handling the drawing of the widget on the different GUI & remembering where it is and how big it should be etc. Feb 24 09:59:11 thank ! :) Feb 24 09:59:17 BTW I also think that off-line routing is more pressing :P Feb 24 09:59:28 hm, sounds reasonable (two part object) Feb 24 09:59:31 well, that should work since summer :) Feb 24 09:59:46 ops, I've lost something :P Feb 24 09:59:55 monav off-line routing? Feb 24 10:00:00 although when I tried it yesterday it seemed broken Feb 24 10:00:01 yep Feb 24 10:00:05 using own generator, local generation, or marble one? Feb 24 10:00:08 ah Feb 24 10:00:17 so I haven't missed it, it's broken here too :P Feb 24 10:00:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/ModRana_offline_routing_guide Feb 24 10:00:36 thanks Feb 24 10:00:42 you need to do some manual steps first Feb 24 10:01:09 I would like to make it automatic though Feb 24 10:03:18 and thanks to Wikiwides patches, you can also just input the route, even with notification messages Feb 24 10:04:19 BTW, anybody else on DevConf in Brno ? Feb 24 10:05:01 already met a N810 guy yesterday and many N9 users :) Feb 24 10:07:24 sounds nice Feb 24 10:07:51 BTW, I remember you were talking about modrana repository with monav data, and about time of generating it on sope supercomputer Feb 24 10:07:59 is it available already? Feb 24 10:08:14 or openstreetmap.de is preffered source, still? Feb 24 10:08:33 oh, it is missing from the guide Feb 24 10:08:50 http://modrana.org/data/monav/ Feb 24 10:09:07 the data is from october though Feb 24 10:09:56 I actually have a fresh set prepared that I'll publish probably on Monday Feb 24 10:09:57 * Estel_ nods Feb 24 10:10:25 you can update the guide if you want to :) Feb 24 10:10:51 and I'm heading back to the conference :) Feb 24 10:11:14 * Estel_ nods Feb 24 10:11:31 will try it wiki won't fail to load on my 2G in-train connection :P Feb 24 10:11:45 good luck & thanks ! :) Feb 24 10:11:55 see you :) Feb 24 10:11:55 seems, that irc is only thing that likes to work in 6 kb/s (in practice) connection Feb 24 10:11:59 have fun on conf Feb 24 10:12:05 ok :) Feb 24 10:59:07 can I use the gps from my laptop? Feb 24 11:00:13 ? Feb 24 11:00:26 you want to use N900 GPS from your laptop? Feb 24 11:00:30 or the other way? Feb 24 11:00:46 there is an app called columbus Feb 24 11:01:01 thanks Feb 24 11:01:49 does n9 has such a program? Feb 24 11:03:46 meh, infobot on holiday Feb 24 11:06:01 does rescueos or bootmenu support charging? Feb 24 11:06:51 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Feb 24 11:06:54 bootmenu does Feb 24 11:07:08 err backupmenu does Feb 24 11:07:56 kthnx Feb 24 11:08:18 dunno about rescueos Feb 24 11:08:40 ~+chaninfo Feb 24 11:08:40 123/123 channels, 4939 users, 3565 unique: #debian/1269, #kde/403, #maemo/259, #asterisk/215, #gsoc/211, #oe/147, #wowuidev/142, #meego/138, #harmattan/137, #arm-netbook/130, #cubieboard/112, #wowace/112, #wowhead/91, #webos-internals/83, #utah/77, #openmoko/76, #openmoko-cdevel/68, #tomcat/67, #bzflag/65, #uclibc/56, #edev/54, #n9/49, #maemo-ssu/49, #htc-linux/48, #curseforge/48, #sc2mapster/43, #asterisk-dev/42, #/35, #slug/35, #elinux/34, ... Feb 24 11:08:45 one suffices :-) Feb 24 11:11:30 rescueos has charge21.bash Feb 24 11:14:31 .sh Feb 24 13:17:42 please help, my Maemo conversations app is broken! All conversations disappeared. everything else seems normal. Please help me investigate this Feb 24 13:18:38 bennypr0fane: have you tried a reboot? Mine have disappeared a few times but a reboot or two usually means they come back... Feb 24 13:19:52 Last I received an sms, with a preview visible in the task manager, but that may have been an sms that I already got yesterday. tapping it got me to the empty conversations home screen... Feb 24 13:20:07 thedead1440 yes hav rebooted twice Feb 24 13:20:12 nothing :-( Feb 24 13:20:46 also changed the battery Feb 24 14:14:06 usually they shouldn't just disappear. Recently, did you install something? Feb 24 14:32:34 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324789#post1324789 Feb 24 14:46:06 NIN101 Xbmcremote was what I installed last, and CutetubeQML Feb 24 14:47:08 DocScrutinizer05: tl;dr Feb 24 14:48:12 kerio: then don't complain later on Feb 24 14:48:35 if you want the bottom line: HiFo (Rob) going nuts again Feb 24 14:49:20 to a point where he rather kills maemo than considering the true meaning of the term "hosting contract" Feb 24 14:49:21 ah, yes Feb 24 14:49:37 meh, i just hope the iphh guys won't get too fed up with that shite Feb 24 14:49:54 a hosting contract would include maintenance Feb 24 14:51:00 a CoLo *contract* would include guaranteed bandwidth and whatnot else Feb 24 14:51:25 DocScrutinizer05: it seams alarmed doesn't work for me. It doesn't do anything and seams to hung as soon as I would touch it. I admit I had problem to install it, because of hashsum, but after renaming files and moving them to appropariate location, I was able to install it, along with dependencies. Feb 24 14:51:37 >renaming and moving Feb 24 14:51:38 nope Feb 24 14:51:41 IPHH asks for NOTHING, ZARRO, still HiFo wants them to offer a *contract* to them Feb 24 14:51:43 that's not how dpkg works Feb 24 14:52:51 "we host your server for free in exchange for one cup of shut the fuck up from board. signed, iphh" Feb 24 14:52:53 kerio: it simply named files with some additional extension and dropped them in partial, but debs were completely downloaded Feb 24 14:53:09 WizardNumberNext: fair enough Feb 24 14:53:20 so I moved them to /var/cache/apt/archives and removed stupid extension from names Feb 24 14:53:25 the debs should be fine, yes Feb 24 14:54:01 well, the debs don't check for dependencies Feb 24 14:54:15 I am not sure, if it installed it properly, as alarmed doesn't work Feb 24 14:54:20 or rather, don't resolve them Feb 24 14:54:44 WizardNumberNext: did you install them with dpkg -i or did you actually use apt-get in the end? Feb 24 14:55:02 anyway, just as a security measure, run "apt-get install -f" Feb 24 14:55:06 apt-get does check and I downloaded all debs with apt-get, but it refused to install, because of hashes, so I moved, renamed and installed it with dpkg Feb 24 14:55:10 it should do nothing, if everything is supposed to be working Feb 24 14:55:23 sec Feb 24 14:55:42 apt-get complained about hashsums??? Feb 24 14:55:45 o.O Feb 24 14:55:48 bennypr0fane: hmm, dunno. Feb 24 14:56:14 appears clean Feb 24 14:56:15 DocScrutinizer05: it would be weird otherwise, nobody did anything to fix the hashsum problem yet, so i'd expect it to still be there Feb 24 14:56:21 WizardNumberNext: btw, have you rebooted? Feb 24 14:56:41 I think few times already Feb 24 14:56:47 hm Feb 24 14:56:59 i've never used alarmed, so idk how to help you diagnose it Feb 24 14:57:17 what does `alarmclient -L` list? Feb 24 14:57:20 but reboot doesn't affect apt and dpkg, after it finished, at least on debian Feb 24 14:57:38 alarms, ham updates and modest Feb 24 14:57:46 standard I presume Feb 24 14:58:03 so nothing from alarmed? Feb 24 14:58:12 on contrary alarmed doesn't list anything Feb 24 14:58:28 and doesn't work - hungs every single time Feb 24 14:59:53 in worst case I can reverse installation, as commands are in history Feb 24 15:00:11 are you sure that `alarmed` isn't the daemon? Feb 24 15:00:27 I have some giu Feb 24 15:00:30 gui Feb 24 15:01:11 let me see what ps would say Feb 24 15:01:44 alarmed doesn't run at the moment Feb 24 15:02:20 I really don't get laws in USA, neither the lawyers there. In the sane world, a contract gets handed out by somebody to a second party to sign it and thus promise they will pay (or fulfill other obligation), usually to obtain some service or goods offered by first party Feb 24 15:02:35 for Rob this always sounds like top down Feb 24 15:03:22 Jolla offered cooperation, Rob asks them to sign a NDA Feb 24 15:03:46 IPHH offers free CoLo, Rob demands a hosting contract to be sent to him Feb 24 15:04:11 something is odd with either Rob or US laws Feb 24 15:04:38 I would say something is wrong with Rob ;) Feb 24 15:04:55 i'd post a summary on TMO, maybe in that same thread Feb 24 15:05:00 so there's something to link Feb 24 15:05:16 bennypr0fane: it's called common law Feb 24 15:05:31 bennypr0fane: and there is something like that in the UK and other countries as well Feb 24 15:05:32 which then further decisions in the same area are based upon, sorta like the law is made by the judges - sounds pretty odd to me Feb 24 15:05:45 kerio: I already significantly stripped redundancy from that shit, I'm not going to interprete it Feb 24 15:05:45 bennypr0fane: not exactly Feb 24 15:06:07 bennypr0fane: it's basically so everyone gets the same verdict in the end Feb 24 15:06:20 I might add a request for Aspirin donations though Feb 24 15:06:33 since this stuff kills me Feb 24 15:06:36 jacekowski well I guess it was a pretty rough, schematic skecth of my friend desribeing how it works Feb 24 15:07:07 basically idea is, that you go and steal something from a shop Feb 24 15:07:14 and you get 500 years in prison for that Feb 24 15:07:47 anyway I totally don't get how this can work, without laws made in parliament as a basis Feb 24 15:08:17 then if someone else would do the same, judge would look at previous verdicts in same or similiar case Feb 24 15:13:02 I did run it from Xterm, I got this: AttributeError: 'PySide.Qt.Maemo5.QMaemo5DatePickSelector' object has no attribute 'connectNotify' Feb 24 15:14:45 I am going to make backup now. Then I would see how 'apt-get upgrade' would affect system. I got 38 packages, which aren't listed in HAM Feb 24 15:15:08 sorry 32 Feb 24 15:16:19 apt gnome-vfs-filechooser-backend hildon-home hildon-status-menu libcurl3 libgtk2.0-0 libgtk2.0-bin libhildon1 libhildonfm2 libpango1.0-0 libqt4-core libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 libqt4-multimedia libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-phonon libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-sqlite libqt4-svg libqt4-test libqt4-translations libqt4-webkit libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libxml2 osso-pdf-viewer osso- Feb 24 15:16:21 wlan osso-xterm Feb 24 15:16:45 I am quite surprised it is not listed in HAM. Any idea why? Feb 24 15:26:25 who is Rob? Feb 24 15:26:52 board dude Feb 24 15:27:23 WizardNumberNext: iirc HAM doesn't list everything, yes. Feb 24 15:28:30 kerio: Bauer? :-/ Feb 24 15:30:23 yep Feb 24 15:33:26 :-( Feb 24 15:33:40 wasn't that dude known beforehand? Feb 24 15:33:50 Jack would finish the job in 24 hours ;) Feb 24 15:35:10 WizardNumberNext: what if you 'un-daemonize' alarmed ... is the log useful? for me alarmed works as expected Feb 24 15:35:21 GeneralAntilles: it's not even about somebody stealing the server, it could be a simple bankrupt of IPHH that would get all hw in their possession to get labeled and without proper papers you wouldn't be able to get it back. I *completely* understand and agree HiFo needs to take care about that. But what I not agree with is them insisting in a HOSTING contract Feb 24 15:36:05 my problem seems to have existed before , http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58984&highlight=conversations+disappeared&page=3 not sure though as to which one exactly of the many presented here is the accepted/proven one regarding current state with CSSU, since it's all rather old. a bug was raised too https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11456 Has anyone come across this issue before? Feb 24 15:36:07 04Bug 11456: History of every conversation (SMS, IM) empty after update to PR1.3 Feb 24 15:37:26 Oh cool, let's see. bug 11464 Feb 24 15:37:27 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11464 Disappearing Conversations Feb 24 15:37:42 hosting in my book includes maintenance, and NOBODY will offer that, since nobody (but Nemein) is competent to do Feb 24 15:37:44 alarmed is just python script, at least looks like judging by file Feb 24 15:38:14 Sicelo ^^ Feb 24 15:39:02 our tech staff of sysop and maintainer volunteers hopefully eventually will be competent to offer hosting Feb 24 15:39:55 NO WAY iphh will offer a hosting contract, neither for free nor for $5000/month Feb 24 15:40:08 for memo.org Feb 24 15:40:08 yeah.. i was looking at alarmd , WizardNumberNext :P Feb 24 15:40:28 Sicelo: I was thinking that Feb 24 15:40:29 WizardNumberNext: yes, it is python Feb 24 15:40:46 is it script or "binary" Feb 24 15:41:05 I didn't inspect contents of files Feb 24 15:41:07 yet Feb 24 15:41:08 meh, isn't that virtually the same for python? Feb 24 15:41:08 DocScrutinizer05: he probably, as usual, doesn't know wtf a hosting contract is Feb 24 15:41:43 hosting with maintenance is called "managed hosting" and even then probably only includes maintenance of "standard" stuff only Feb 24 15:42:10 yep, and that's the whole problem, and he rather accepts maemo.org going offline on 03-01 than maybe growing a brain and learn about that stuff Feb 24 15:42:29 WizardNumberNext: 'script' /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py Feb 24 15:42:58 Sicelo: as I was thinking Feb 24 15:45:43 bennypr0fane: bug list helping? i had a friend who had your issue, and due to time constraints, we reflashed. otherwise i'm interested to know how to fix it Feb 24 15:45:44 ShadowJK: whatever, asking for a hosting contract on top of a CoLo contract is bold, if the donor clearly stated they offer free CoLo only. If he bothers about possibility to repossess the server, he rather should ask for "all papers needed to ensure that we can repossess the server" Feb 24 15:47:48 hosting as I understand it, is different from colo in that with colo, you own the servers, with hosting the provider owns the servers, and depending on the tyoe of hosting, you might share server with other people too. Feb 24 15:48:22 Neither terms, as I understand it, includes any assistance in running the servers. Feb 24 15:49:09 Some places are kind enough to make a best effort to make your machine bootabke and reachable again if you screw it up, but that's about as far as they'll go Feb 24 15:53:42 In general I'd assume plain "Hosting" to consist of something like 5GB space on a www server, and a single mysql table. The server running possibly hundreds of websites :-) Feb 24 15:53:45 Sicelo, whatever the solution, it seems like will have to spare 2 hours to go through with it. Will post my fix (hopefully a fix) in that thread when I manage Feb 24 15:59:38 which libtool should I have in scratchbox? I think I have messed it up badly Feb 24 16:22:37 can I get battery status from somewhere in /sys or so? Feb 24 16:23:06 only with the bme replacement Feb 24 16:23:22 with the stock bme, the best you can do is `hal-device bme` Feb 24 16:24:04 ok Feb 24 16:24:48 qwazix: the one from the repos? Feb 24 16:25:37 qwazix: "libtool 1.5.26-3maemo1 Generic library support script" Feb 24 16:26:04 after I salvage important data out of it, I'm gonna reflash this n900. Any advice about flashing or what useful stuff to install next? I already know of power-kernel, but not much beyond that Feb 24 16:27:42 freemangordon, I'm getting a libtool version mismatch when trying to compile embedlite-components Feb 24 16:28:16 "This is libtool 2.2.6b but the definition of this LT_INIT comes from an older release" Feb 24 16:28:29 qwazix: do "git clean -df;git reset --heard HEAD" Feb 24 16:28:42 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b Feb 24 16:28:49 *--hard Feb 24 16:28:50 I did that many times, also cloned again Feb 24 16:29:22 hmmm Feb 24 16:29:42 lemme pull the latest and retry Feb 24 16:29:55 same thing, m-c compiled fine, and I am stuck in components Feb 24 16:30:12 tried older commits too, I believe I borked something in sb Feb 24 16:31:29 yeah, looks like :( Feb 24 16:32:27 qwazix: it builds here, it is your SB Feb 24 16:33:09 ok, what's your "libtool --version" Feb 24 16:33:11 ? Feb 24 16:33:26 also "which libtool" Feb 24 16:33:57 ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 2.2.6b Feb 24 16:34:15 "/targets/links/arch_tools/bin/libtool" Feb 24 16:34:47 and apt-cache policy libtool? Feb 24 16:35:20 libtool: Feb 24 16:35:22 Installed: 1.5.26-3maemo1 Feb 24 16:35:24 Candidate: 1.5.26-3maemo1 Feb 24 16:35:26 Version table: Feb 24 16:35:28 *** 1.5.26-3maemo1 0 Feb 24 16:35:30 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages Feb 24 16:35:32 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages Feb 24 16:35:48 qwazix: try to reinstall it Feb 24 16:36:15 I tried, I have a different which libtool so I'll try to find why that is so Feb 24 16:36:17 thanks Feb 24 16:36:27 np Feb 24 16:39:22 one question; there is a "Depends" line in mp-fremantle-community-pr in /var/lib/dpkg/status. Does it mean the removal of packages' names from the depends line allow those packages to be safely installed without affecting mp-fremantle-pr? Asking this as i wanted to get rid of a few apps on harmattan but they are in the "Depends" line in the meta package. Feb 24 16:40:46 s/installed/uninstalled/ Feb 24 16:40:46 thedead1440 meant: one question; there is a "Depends" line in mp-fremantle-community-pr in /var/lib/dpkg/status. Does it mean the removal of packages' names from the depends line allow those packages to be safely uninstalled without affecting mp-fremantle-pr? Asking this as... Feb 24 16:56:56 >>The Board will do what it thinks is best for Hildon Foundation. Hopefully ,Nemein, will cooperate with whatever decision we make. << read twice! Feb 24 16:57:32 hi qwazix, freemangordon Feb 24 16:57:34 what's wring with those guys? Feb 24 16:57:38 *wrong Feb 24 16:57:46 what is best for HiFo? Since when did those 2 people (1 of whom is unelected) decide whats good for the Community-at-large? Feb 24 16:58:07 wasn't HiFo suppsed to do what is the best for Mameo Community?!? Feb 24 16:58:27 exactly and till date almost all their decisions are not for the best Feb 24 16:58:31 what the hell, what does nemein have to do with this Feb 24 16:58:43 this is getting ridiculous Feb 24 16:58:45 hi DocScrutinizer05 Feb 24 16:58:52 hi DocScrutinizer05 Feb 24 16:59:47 YAY nielDK answers :-) Feb 24 16:59:57 freemangordon, I fixed it, it was using different libtool at different stages of build. I had to copy the m4 macros of libtool manually to /usr/share/aclocal Feb 24 16:59:59 is this public somewhere? Feb 24 17:00:09 qwazix: good :) Feb 24 17:00:13 not yet Feb 24 17:00:13 or is it only public through copypasting? Feb 24 17:00:56 well, he just agreed on what I wrote in my last mail Feb 24 17:01:16 and remarked there's too much confusion around Feb 24 17:01:17 phew :) Feb 24 17:01:34 also, wtf is tim doing Feb 24 17:01:37 he's the chairman Feb 24 17:01:47 he's supposed to keep rogue elements in control Feb 24 17:02:10 you're free to ask board@maemo.org Feb 24 17:02:43 I published the whole "thread" for a reason, it's getting 'too heavy' for me Feb 24 17:03:06 IOW I felt urgent need to have this reviewed by community Feb 24 17:03:26 DocScrutinizer05: so now he says its ok and he agrees to what you said? Feb 24 17:03:41 I might have made mistakes I didn't realize Feb 24 17:03:52 no, NileDK says that Feb 24 17:04:04 our ex-council member Feb 24 17:04:09 ah Feb 24 17:05:19 here you are: >> I completely agree with Joerg here, there is just a bit too much confusion Feb 24 17:05:20 around, and if a contract is needed, HiFo board needs to create one, and - Feb 24 17:05:22 hope - IPHH would agree. Feb 24 17:05:23 Have a strong fear to say the least that this wont matter soon. Feb 24 17:05:25 But, I hope and pray this game won't end the game! Feb 24 17:05:26 /Niel Feb 24 17:14:49 and WTF actually:>> Feb 24 17:14:51 **To Falk: I suggest you not risk your time setting up the server at IPHH until this gets resolved. Despite what Joerg may have done and will do, the Board still has a decision to make and may decide to have hosting out of OSUOSL. Feb 24 17:15:57 what the fucking fuck Feb 24 17:15:57 its because Rob doesn't have anything to lose. For him this seems more like a task; he doesn't use a n900 that would be affected in any fashion so its just a volunteer service he is doing to us. That's the general impression i get from him and Tim; aloof... Feb 24 17:37:04 is there a list of repositories we can use for the n900 Feb 24 17:37:43 john__: 'standard' ones work. see /topic Feb 24 17:38:00 I just looked at the topic Feb 24 17:38:07 this Hifo business is getting weird :-( Feb 24 17:38:38 * DocScrutinizer05 feels constant headache Feb 24 17:39:01 the nasty kind that you know will not vanish any time soon Feb 24 18:21:22 what was the source for stock n900 images again? or is there something better to use when doing full resflash? Feb 24 18:22:43 ~skeiron Feb 24 18:22:44 well, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Feb 24 18:22:58 or http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/firmware/ Feb 24 18:30:10 kthnx Feb 24 18:37:53 could somebody please "translate" this >>Hosting contract will be needed in regards to collocated contract.<< for me? Feb 24 18:38:14 where's woody? :) Feb 24 18:41:35 DocScrutinizer05: could it be that "hosting" means different thing in states? Feb 24 18:43:40 is there a way to tell which COMBINED edition is there currently? Feb 24 18:48:41 Doc: hosting - they host your stuff at their servers Feb 24 18:49:06 Doc: colocation - they give you a corner in the data center and a bunch of wires, you install your own servers Feb 24 18:49:40 Doc: it beats me what they want though - would call and ask Feb 24 18:51:00 ccxCZ: the latest official one is pr 1.3 Feb 24 18:51:05 2010.36 Feb 24 18:51:26 yeah, I meant the loacal variant Feb 24 19:02:03 omg the office cracks me up Feb 24 19:02:35 Wooa cant get tiis Feb 24 19:09:06 "Wooa cant get tiis" Feb 24 19:09:21 truly enlightened words from a staggering genious Feb 24 19:09:26 *genius Feb 24 19:13:28 RST38h: *I* am well aware of all this, and I hope Rob is too, now: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1324858&postcount=10 Feb 24 19:14:45 tiis=titties? Feb 24 19:14:53 :nod: Feb 24 19:15:21 I reay hope this just communication eror and everything gets resoved successfully Feb 24 19:15:44 after all the hard woek you all put into this Feb 24 19:15:50 the ammount of love in the air between hifo and council is... overhelming Feb 24 19:15:59 MartinK_N9: unfortunately does not look like that, at least to me. Feb 24 19:16:25 so once more - thanks a lot for soing this ! :) Feb 24 19:16:37 to me, the problem is that there is a idiotic war between hifo and council, with "gathering fanboys" via irc, tmo, and whatever Feb 24 19:16:42 Estel_: you'd better say "between HiFo and the community" ;) Feb 24 19:16:49 Estel_: wrong Feb 24 19:16:51 freemangordon, bullshit Feb 24 19:17:10 after all, someone elected them, you think that everyone elected to hifo automagically becomes bastard? Feb 24 19:17:12 Estel_: sure Feb 24 19:17:27 Estel_: did I say that? Feb 24 19:17:27 either system is bad, or communication sux Feb 24 19:18:08 what I am saying is that there is no "gathering fanboys" Feb 24 19:18:12 I find it weird Feb 24 19:18:20 well, rob is a lawyer and he must ensure, that every law shit is set up properly, as "founding fathers" of hifo are responsible, perrsonally, for Foundation, to respect law Feb 24 19:18:38 I think he communicates it wrong way... Feb 24 19:18:47 and is quite slow to accept arguments Feb 24 19:19:09 OTOH, Council is bitching on irc, instead of spending more time discussing it with HiFo via mailing list, or whatever Feb 24 19:19:19 people seem to start behaving in weird ways once becomming HiFo board memvers :) Feb 24 19:19:20 Estel_: and as every lawyer(and not only) with brain, he should listen to what those who know how the stuff works say Feb 24 19:19:24 (not even proposing private discussions, as it tends to end in even more hate) Feb 24 19:19:35 The organization's administrative overhead seems as thick as nokia's, the slow rate at which things move ;p Feb 24 19:19:47 MartinK_N9, I see it rather as "me vs they" syndrome Feb 24 19:19:54 ShadowJK: :nod: Feb 24 19:20:04 and this is not supposed to work like that Feb 24 19:20:09 I just think that HiFo is totally separated from reality... Feb 24 19:20:33 of Maemo "Community", and Council is separated from HiFo legals. Two ends of circle. Feb 24 19:20:33 Also I'd like to point out that most other open source projects discuss things totally in the open :) Feb 24 19:20:42 ShadowJK, absolutely agree Feb 24 19:20:55 Estel_: and how is that related with "gathering fanboys"? Feb 24 19:21:17 the fact that Council members come here and show things from only one perspective? Feb 24 19:21:34 Estel_: and Rod is banned from #maemo?!? Feb 24 19:21:37 *Rob Feb 24 19:21:44 I see it as "we have problem", and need to find solution. What I see here is always "they have a problem, they are idiots, they don't have brain" Feb 24 19:21:51 to show both perspectives Feb 24 19:21:59 you need both sides Feb 24 19:22:21 or the result might be biased Feb 24 19:22:21 and? we shall do what? Feb 24 19:22:21 freemangordon, who knows, if he wouldmstart argumenting something in a way that teotwqaki don't like... :P Feb 24 19:22:35 Estel_: come on, stay in track Feb 24 19:22:50 frankly, I tried to mention, that statute of hifo was flawed as hell Feb 24 19:23:09 Estel_: but I don;t see why you blame the council for that Feb 24 19:23:25 but you (freemangordon) heroe's like woody put stamp of "trolling" into every critic Feb 24 19:23:33 well, ivgalvez was member of both hifo and council Feb 24 19:23:57 I was banned for criticizing - politely - double candidacy. What he have done for maintaining proper communication between hifo and council? Feb 24 19:24:10 Estel_: and he was inactive well before the end odf 2012 Feb 24 19:24:20 if this thing was build on shit, don't expect it to bread apples. Feb 24 19:24:35 Estel_: I don;t give a fuck why you was banned, this is totally unrelated to what we discuss Feb 24 19:24:42 backumenu can't serve sftp? O_o Feb 24 19:25:03 your ban is not related to the conflict Feb 24 19:25:08 on the other hand, I cant really imagine council handling all they do now AND also all the legalese at the same time Feb 24 19:25:16 it is related - everyone who criticized *any* aspect of how hifo was planned to work, be it dual-membership or statute, was considered "troll" Feb 24 19:25:23 unless it is twice as big Feb 24 19:25:37 now he have fruits Feb 24 19:25:43 Estel_: bullshit, check the thread on TMO Feb 24 19:25:44 * Estel_ shrugs Feb 24 19:26:16 freemangordon, months after accepting flawed statute and electing people that were not suitable to be elected, even by that statute? :P Feb 24 19:26:31 this thread is worthless, time for it was *then* Feb 24 19:26:51 Estel_: you are well aware we were running out of time? Feb 24 19:27:17 not to say that *now* it is pointless to discuss "what if" Feb 24 19:27:32 HiFo was created in shadow of administration/moderation abuse, censorship of *legally right* free speech, criticism, etc. Now you're surprised that things are shit and not discussed in open Feb 24 19:27:56 freemangordon, I'm a little afraid that we're already post "running out of time" Feb 24 19:28:19 Estel_: We are still not (afaik) but getting closer Feb 24 19:28:31 hope I'm wrong on this one, honestly. Feb 24 19:28:48 from my subjective and biased perspectice, it's lethal already Feb 24 19:29:10 sure, if something don;t chage in the upcoming 48 hours Feb 24 19:29:15 *change Feb 24 19:29:22 we have hardware & some hopefully still intetested in collocating it Feb 24 19:29:29 I just don't see way to fix it unless we go "pirate way". Legal shit around hifo is unfixable Feb 24 19:29:41 why 48? Feb 24 19:29:57 just get that legaleze sorted out damn it :) Feb 24 19:30:02 MartinK_N9: "we" as in? as it is HiFo who holds the legal rights AFAIK Feb 24 19:30:09 Estel_: for example Feb 24 19:30:14 * Estel_ nods Feb 24 19:30:15 that is how I see it Feb 24 19:30:36 well the community we but yeah :) Feb 24 19:31:14 freemangordon, sure, but I think - as said, at least in my opinion - that nice contributors like you, miss some major thing. It willmbe *never* healthy community, if it's build upon acceptance of things that happened around Maemo Feb 24 19:31:29 *moral*, if not directly, is well related to how things are running Feb 24 19:31:34 sad that it sometimes loks like HiFo != community Feb 24 19:32:02 Estel_: I am not aware of anything better than democracu, are you? Feb 24 19:32:08 *democracy Feb 24 19:32:13 you said you don't give a shit about two innocnt guys that got banned eternally, or my ban, or how irc is handled or... Fair enough. But giving acceptance to that, you add your share to accepting things, that make managing Maemo sick Feb 24 19:32:22