**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 25 02:59:57 2013 Feb 25 06:48:03 hi there.got a new n900,try to repartition the internal mmc,but get only 7Gb of space Feb 25 06:48:25 how did you repartition? Feb 25 06:48:33 fdisk Feb 25 06:49:11 start 1 end +25000M Feb 25 06:49:13 you did what to the existing partitions? Feb 25 06:50:22 deleted them and made new partitions,than reflashed.my opt partition uses 6 Gb,it is ok,but can't get larger fat space than 7Gb Feb 25 06:50:58 also will use my ext card for swap Feb 25 06:52:03 i'm a power user,very strange,the fat partition is type win95 fat Lba Feb 25 06:53:53 why my fat is only 7Gb? Feb 25 06:56:43 is anyone able to help me?it is very strange,looks like my fat size is limited,but don't know why Feb 25 06:57:53 fat16 or fat32? Feb 25 06:58:47 hmm... i dared not to muck with that despite it would be nice to have more space in /opt... but there's plenty as it is... Feb 25 06:59:16 fat32 Feb 25 06:59:39 i know,that fat16 size is limited Feb 25 07:04:36 what are you using for logical sector size? Feb 25 07:05:43 don't know Feb 25 07:08:20 try mkfs'ing with -S 32768 or -s 128 and see if that works... it's just a guess though, I thought mkfs should figure this out on its own Feb 25 07:11:18 i use failsafe,there is only fdisk Feb 25 07:38:07 DocScrutinizer05: you suck at predictions, dude Feb 25 07:38:17 they're supposed to be a lot vaguer than that Feb 25 07:38:44 Testing Feb 25 07:39:03 Wooooa m on irc Feb 25 07:39:09 wooooooooah Feb 25 07:39:11 welcome Feb 25 07:40:07 Yeah Feb 25 07:40:09 DocScrutinizer05: "and the end will come for the lost winds when the demon from the east will reveal himself" Feb 25 07:40:16 or something Feb 25 07:41:29 problemsolved Feb 25 07:41:39 thank you Feb 25 07:41:47 cheers Feb 25 07:44:54 Chkng Feb 25 07:45:14 checking what? Feb 25 08:46:09 can you guys link me to how to on soldering microusb unit on n900 lots of pics may be even a video Feb 25 08:46:22 ~usbfix Feb 25 08:46:23 [usbfix] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Feb 25 09:09:16 [00:23] or a guy sounding like him but with a nick of "Piotr" Feb 25 09:09:25 so much about "moral value" :/ Feb 25 09:10:15 If I were you, with your current "position" and "respect", I would be little more carefull with acussing people of using "virtual" identifies to write bullshit Feb 25 09:10:58 especially, that, no matter of your personal antagonism, you must admit, that I was never afraid of writing unpopular things, no matter of ban or whatever harassment risk Feb 25 09:11:26 so please, don't offend me, by implying cowardise of hiding behind some idiot's nick. Thanks in advance. Feb 25 09:15:50 anyone using bme replacement and kp52, experience strange hardware wakeups in powertop? Feb 25 09:16:22 define strange Feb 25 09:16:24 hardware things that should sleep wake up for some time (5-8%) Feb 25 09:16:32 lemme dig up pastebin Feb 25 09:16:44 brb, need to shut down connections for a while Feb 25 09:18:07 C4 | 92.6% | 3090.1ms | Feb 25 09:24:33 hi, long time since I asked this here: any news? Feb 25 09:24:38 any new devices? Feb 25 09:25:15 second question: I got a lenovo laptop, I want to use a gps program on the laptop Feb 25 09:25:37 which option makes more sense: use the N9 gps and internet connection Feb 25 09:25:55 or buy a cellular modem +gps at 200$ ? Feb 25 09:26:13 I mean most of you must tried this - right? Feb 25 09:27:42 here is powertop output Feb 25 09:27:46 http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?38da9ceccfdd5407#oVyh3iVpkQkuALzAtCuEkGFPIVFjrok0ItFy9UwTOyM= Feb 25 09:27:53 ^ kerio Feb 25 09:28:13 well, what's wrong? Feb 25 09:28:16 looks good Feb 25 09:28:35 nope, it's with everything disabled Feb 25 09:28:48 before, ic2_omap wasn't generating more than ~250 wakeups Feb 25 09:28:51 now it's twice as much Feb 25 09:29:04 also, C1 C2 and C3 was quiet Feb 25 09:29:10 only C4 and very little C0 Feb 25 09:29:20 \_o_/ Feb 25 09:29:30 only C4 and very little C0 Feb 25 09:29:33 which troubles me most Feb 25 09:29:36 well, hald-addon-bme is listed, but with only one activity Feb 25 09:29:55 core, neon and mpu are awake for 14% of time Feb 25 09:30:21 yeah, that's kinda bad Feb 25 09:30:22 per for 5% Feb 25 09:30:35 I'm 100% sure before kp52 it was all OK Feb 25 09:30:41 may be nit related, though Feb 25 09:30:47 nit? Feb 25 09:31:27 i, too, have 7.3% of C3 Feb 25 09:31:40 and 10% of core/neon/mpu Feb 25 10:09:17 when I try to install columbus I get: Feb 25 10:09:45 that's not a lot Feb 25 10:09:57 faild to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras... Feb 25 10:10:24 is repository.maemo.org up? Feb 25 10:12:46 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libr/librxsupport/librxsupport_0.2.0-1_armel.deb Hash Sum mismatch Feb 25 10:12:53 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libc/libcolumbus/libcolumbus_0.9.3-1_armel.deb Hash Sum mismatch Feb 25 10:13:17 why are the Hashs bad? Feb 25 10:13:59 repo problem Feb 25 10:14:05 use extras-devel.merlin1991.at Feb 25 10:14:30 so I need to edit the sources file Feb 25 10:14:34 ok, lets see Feb 25 10:16:13 deb http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/extras-devel fremantle free non-free Feb 25 10:16:14 ? Feb 25 10:16:54 ok, it updates well Feb 25 10:17:18 W: GPG error: https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release: The following signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 Feb 25 10:17:23 ignore that Feb 25 10:17:51 do you use the n9? Feb 25 10:18:20 did anyone managed to add google calender sync to the n900? Feb 25 10:18:27 calendar Feb 25 10:18:42 no, still hash mismatch Feb 25 10:18:49 min Feb 25 10:19:02 why is it using http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/libr/librxsupport/librxsupport_0.1.0-4_armel.deb Feb 25 10:19:44 cityLights, do dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/*.FAILED Feb 25 10:20:08 (check if the path is right) Feb 25 10:20:17 I just typed it out of my head Feb 25 10:20:29 teotwaki: does it sync periodical to google calender? Feb 25 10:20:48 Pali: 0xFFFF seems to flash even with -s Feb 25 10:20:49 W: Failed to fetch http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/non-free/binary-armel/Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 188.40.39.11 80] Feb 25 10:20:52 it's "calendar" Feb 25 10:20:55 not "calender" Feb 25 10:21:42 qwazix: rm /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/* Feb 25 10:22:16 ? Feb 25 10:22:18 ccxCZ, I will look at it Feb 25 10:22:47 cityLights, the hash sum failed is due to repo index file error, the packages are actually fine Feb 25 10:23:12 so apt downloads them in /var/cache/apt/archives/partial with a suffix .FAILED Feb 25 10:23:25 I fixed the source line and I am waiting for the update now Feb 25 10:23:31 you can install them from there with dpkg Feb 25 10:23:44 right Feb 25 10:23:55 the source line is only for extras-devel, there are packages with sum mismatch on testing too Feb 25 10:24:28 so if you still get the error message the solution I just outlined will do Feb 25 10:24:37 right Feb 25 10:25:39 now its ok Feb 25 10:25:44 cool Feb 25 10:26:02 Pali: http://bpaste.net/show/79595/ Feb 25 10:26:05 I aim to use the n900 gps with the laptop Feb 25 10:26:14 I am looking to do the same with the n9 Feb 25 10:26:42 ccxCZ, do you have last version from git? Feb 25 10:26:49 cityLights: your url is wrong Feb 25 10:27:01 there's no such thing as http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/extras-devel/ Feb 25 10:27:01 git version from before the weekend Feb 25 10:27:06 ok installed fine now Feb 25 10:27:35 kerio: right, I saw and fixed it , and now its ok Feb 25 10:27:44 ccxCz, do you have also full backtrace? (gdb command bt full)? Feb 25 10:29:05 Pali: here you go http://bpaste.net/show/79596/ Feb 25 10:29:29 thanks, I will look at it Feb 25 10:32:54 hrm, now it bootloops and bootmenu is gone. luckily rescueos still works Feb 25 10:34:07 ~rescueos Feb 25 10:34:07 extra, extra, read all about it, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ Feb 25 10:34:48 good, according to the docs rescueos does charge the battery too Feb 25 10:36:33 ccxCZ, now I quickly fixed that NULL pointer and simulate param Feb 25 10:36:48 patches are in git Feb 25 10:39:46 updated, compiled, segv :P Feb 25 10:41:04 http://bpaste.net/show/79599/ Feb 25 10:43:28 -O0 version, remade clean http://bpaste.net/show/79602/ Feb 25 10:44:05 ach :-( glibc detected: double free or corruption this will be harder Feb 25 10:44:42 ccxCZ, gdb is not usefull for memory corruptions... do you have valgrind? Feb 25 10:45:11 yup, but no real experience with it Feb 25 10:45:12 Hi guyz Feb 25 10:45:22 hello Feb 25 10:45:30 now when simulate flag working, I can try it too Feb 25 10:46:12 Finally irc Feb 25 10:46:19 Yippe Feb 25 10:48:13 0 Feb 25 10:53:21 kerio, it doesn't matter if it's a lot or not, there definitelly wasn't such things before Feb 25 10:53:32 ping Pali Feb 25 10:54:14 Pali, could you look at this: Feb 25 10:54:15 http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?38da9ceccfdd5407#oVyh3iVpkQkuALzAtCuEkGFPIVFjrok0ItFy9UwTOyM= Feb 25 10:54:58 since installing kp52 and bme replacement bits, there is strange hardware activity, that I'm 100% sure wasn't the case before Feb 25 10:55:24 100% idle device, settled down, without any connections Feb 25 10:55:53 core, neon, and mpu are active for 16% of times, when it should be asleep Feb 25 10:56:00 16% of time* Feb 25 10:56:36 CPU is 9% on C3, when it should sleep at C4 almost completely Feb 25 10:57:02 also, 2.7% C2, which is (summed up with C3) strange Feb 25 10:57:22 I suspect those core, neon and mpu are the cause Feb 25 10:57:36 it eats more than 10% of standby time Feb 25 10:57:43 i.e. idle power usage got higher Feb 25 10:58:22 freemangordon, ^, you may be interested in it too (no idea if using thumb can be related? But, before kp52, no such things, even in thumb...)) Feb 25 10:58:50 if I can debug it some more, just tell me what to do. Kerio said he also got similar wakeups, he is on kp52 and bme replacement too Feb 25 10:59:04 emove bme repl Feb 25 10:59:09 remove* Feb 25 10:59:33 could do, but bme replacement bits are listed on powertop, with very OK'ish number of wakeups Feb 25 10:59:56 so I would rather blame kp52, if anything Feb 25 10:59:57 bat applet Feb 25 11:00:07 tried without it already Feb 25 11:00:10 same things Feb 25 11:00:15 :-/ Feb 25 11:00:32 stop processes one after another Feb 25 11:00:40 it may be unrelated to KP at all, it's just that due to repos being kinda down, I havent changed anything else Feb 25 11:00:49 prepare for unadvertised reboots though Feb 25 11:01:18 DocScrutinizer05, ok, but which processes? it's hardware wakeup, not software. Or do you mean *all* processes? Feb 25 11:01:36 unload bq* kmods Feb 25 11:01:56 uh, right, could think about that one myself :P Feb 25 11:02:32 will report result at evening... BTW, it would be nice if other people with kp52 and/or bme replacement could test powertop too Feb 25 11:02:40 appreciated Feb 25 11:03:15 device must be settled down (no recent activity, more than 30 minutes since turning on), with gsm and wifi and whatsnot disabled for some minutes already Feb 25 11:03:40 and locked screen? Feb 25 11:03:43 (reminder for others, that may be interested) Feb 25 11:03:44 sure Feb 25 11:04:14 "powertop" from extras-devel mirror, then powertop from terminal, and quickly lock screen and lay device flat and idle Feb 25 11:04:22 I support this investigation Feb 25 11:04:24 after 11 sec, powertop will start sampling for 30 sec Feb 25 11:04:28 * Estel_ nods Feb 25 11:04:55 it may be totally unrelated, but anyway, maybe someone will get idea what causes this, then. I'm quite allergic to hardware wakeups :P Feb 25 11:05:16 same here ;-) Feb 25 11:05:58 Estel_: have you checked IRQs? Feb 25 11:06:20 erm, checked what? :P Feb 25 11:06:54 ~irq Feb 25 11:06:55 hmm... irq is (Interrupt request) This is a gateway for devices to request time from the processor to do their jobs. For instance, every time you hit a key on your keyboard an interrupt is generated on the keyboard IRQ. This is mainly only a concern for PC users. Feb 25 11:07:28 cat /proc/interrupts Feb 25 11:07:49 see who's firing Feb 25 11:08:15 oook, but should I test it, somehow, when device is idle? Feb 25 11:08:20 * DocScrutinizer05 bets on i2c Feb 25 11:08:21 or just normally? Feb 25 11:08:56 cat /proc/interrupts; sleep 60; cat /proc/interrupts Feb 25 11:09:00 compare Feb 25 11:10:00 ok Feb 25 11:10:10 here is result of "just cat": Feb 25 11:10:12 http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?4db15921728c418c#2nUcVu+OhWOKEmxcabxeshmrwHg2FE3eJiSK1GM4S/o= Feb 25 11:10:55 will do sleep 11; cat /proc/interrupts; sleep 60; cat/proc/interrupts, and lock screen after firing, just like with powertop Feb 25 11:11:12 but that need to wait 'till evening, can't drop connections now Feb 25 11:11:26 273: 6189 GPIO kb_lock Feb 25 11:11:34 12:11 46 Tage 11:58 an, 0 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0,03, 0,02, 0,00 Feb 25 11:11:39 ;-) Feb 25 11:12:23 sorry, yopu lost me on this one? Feb 25 11:12:33 s/yopu/you/ Feb 25 11:12:33 Estel_ meant: sorry, you lost me on this one? Feb 25 11:12:36 sorry Feb 25 11:13:14 my device has an uptime of ~46 days and I had 6189 kb-lock slider actions during that time Feb 25 11:13:52 sounds insane Feb 25 11:14:31 ah :) Feb 25 11:14:46 even if each open and close is an IRQ, this would still be ~60 per day Feb 25 11:14:54 sound OK Feb 25 11:15:02 I think I'm sliding it more :P Feb 25 11:15:16 this is tk-lock switch I think Feb 25 11:15:27 well, might be Feb 25 11:15:54 231: 174 GPIO slide Feb 25 11:16:58 which tells you my device is closed now and seen 87 open/close cycles during last 46 days Feb 25 11:17:43 oh, as for slider on the right side, I use it even more Feb 25 11:17:52 I would bet on ~200 per day Feb 25 11:17:58 strangely enough, it's not even worn out Feb 25 11:18:23 I think there is difference between revisions @ plastic quality of some part - for sure keyboard sux on 2204 Feb 25 11:18:44 may be, that people with worn-out sliders got them worse too Feb 25 11:19:11 quite possible, or they have abrassive puches Feb 25 11:19:19 my 1st keyboard, which is used *very* much, is still matt and got 0 worn out key labels or not even slightest sratched thing Feb 25 11:19:36 OTOH, many others are worn out and "glossy" after few months of usage Feb 25 11:19:36 abrasive pouches Feb 25 11:19:48 * Estel_ nods Feb 25 11:20:12 same here Feb 25 11:20:22 keymat is worse than battery Feb 25 11:20:33 new one every year, at least Feb 25 11:23:10 anyway, for you only difference over a idle time in proc/interrupts is relevant Feb 25 11:24:46 those (I suspect): Feb 25 11:24:49 56: 270217988 INTC i2c_omap Feb 25 11:24:50 57: 29466229 INTC i2c_omap Feb 25 11:24:52 61: 601899 INTC i2c_omap Feb 25 11:25:33 bq* kmods would have impact on iirc 57 Feb 25 11:32:33 [root@blade-a ~]# xm list Feb 25 11:32:35 Name ID Mem VCPUs State Time(s) Feb 25 11:32:36 Domain-0 0 1024 12 r----- 23302.5 Feb 25 11:32:38 dns 12 1024 1 -b---- 4.4 Feb 25 11:32:39 firewall-a 1 512 1 -b---- 579.0 Feb 25 11:32:41 monitor 13 2048 2 -b---- 11.3 Feb 25 11:32:42 [root@blade-b ~]# xm list Feb 25 11:32:44 Name ID Mem VCPUs State Time(s) Feb 25 11:32:45 Domain-0 0 1024 12 r----- 15318.9 Feb 25 11:32:47 db 20 8192 2 -b---- 6243.3 Feb 25 11:32:48 firewall-b 3 512 1 -b---- 312.9 Feb 25 11:32:50 garage 27 8192 2 r----- 569.7 Feb 25 11:32:51 wiki 16 1024 1 -b---- 307.7 Feb 25 11:32:53 www 22 2048 2 -b---- 294.4 Feb 25 11:33:27 neat Feb 25 11:39:20 DocScrutinizer05: isn't blade-a a bit under-used? Feb 25 11:39:43 kerio: this will change Feb 25 11:40:48 http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure#Plan_for_migration_.2F_Timeline Feb 25 11:42:30 for now everything is underused Feb 25 12:12:56 my N900 is shipping - damn you for making me want it for years! Feb 25 12:13:24 yay Feb 25 12:14:30 you people keep making all this cool stuff for it that my N800 didn't get Feb 25 12:15:17 plus the fact the old N800 is starting to get unreliable: random reboots, a tad crashy, not a lot of RAM (although a class 10 SD card and a helping of swap on it helps) Feb 25 12:15:51 :-) Feb 25 12:19:10 no sim card is going in the new thing though Feb 25 12:19:49 celluar service is a bloody scam, it's way too expensive! I'll stick with my home fibre and my city's (and most restraunts) free wifi Feb 25 12:35:12 if I wanted to reformat rootfs and optfs by hand, are there any special flags to mkfs I should use? Feb 25 12:42:51 you probably don't want to reformat rootfs Feb 25 12:42:58 because nobody understands how to format ubifs Feb 25 12:43:07 optfs... meh, whatever you want, really Feb 25 12:43:27 it's going to be mounted as ext3 with the options listed in /etc/fstab Feb 25 12:44:18 ic, thanks Feb 25 12:44:46 how do the rootfs backup in bootmenu work then? plain dd? Feb 25 12:44:51 does* Feb 25 12:44:59 no Feb 25 12:45:07 never ever ever ever use dd on a mtd Feb 25 12:45:20 backupmenu mounts the filesystem and makes a tarball Feb 25 12:45:30 on restore, it deletes every file on the filesystem and then unpacks the tarball Feb 25 12:45:45 ok Feb 25 12:46:41 optfs is recreated Feb 25 12:46:48 but that's just a mkfs.ext3 by default, anyway Feb 25 12:49:29 ok, so I can use rescueos to just do that by hand Feb 25 12:50:22 * ccxCZ thinks rsync --delete and squashfs would be better for rootfs Feb 25 12:50:35 ccxCZ: in which way? Feb 25 12:51:25 to restore the backups, since I don't have backupmenu anymore Feb 25 12:51:46 rsync --delete only overwrites when there are changes Feb 25 12:52:05 and you'd get cheap lzo compression and random access on the backups Feb 25 12:52:54 hm Feb 25 12:52:59 well i don't see why that wouldn't work Feb 25 13:09:17 kerio, I know how to format ubifs Feb 25 13:09:36 you need to use ubiformat Feb 25 13:09:59 oh really :P Feb 25 13:10:10 ubiformat /dev/mtd5 -s 512 -O 512 -f image.ubi Feb 25 13:10:46 but ubifs must be umounted and ubi deattached from mtd device Feb 25 13:10:59 *de*attached? really? Feb 25 13:11:13 yes, because you are flashing ubi image to mtd Feb 25 13:11:18 oic Feb 25 13:11:21 not ubifs image! Feb 25 13:11:47 our rootfs image in FIASCO is ubi image which contains one volume for rootfs Feb 25 13:12:10 Pali: what about creating a brand new ubifs Feb 25 13:12:21 use mkfs.ubifs Feb 25 13:12:28 i assume it's ubimkvol first though Feb 25 13:12:42 this will create new ubifs image on HDD Feb 25 13:12:45 in file Feb 25 13:13:18 and then use ubinize which will create new ubi image from that ubifs file Feb 25 13:13:37 and then you can flash that new ubi image to n900 Feb 25 13:14:28 ubiformat doing all what is needed to flashing new ubi images (preserve erase counters, ...) Feb 25 13:15:09 kerio, but I did not tried it on real n900, only on desktop with nandsim Feb 25 13:15:14 and it worked Feb 25 13:20:22 ubuntu on n900? Feb 25 13:20:24 heh Feb 25 13:21:06 so is maemo.org running on someones eu isdn line now? ;) Feb 25 13:23:41 Macer: not yet, we have a 9k6 modem for that. Feb 25 13:24:10 heh Feb 25 13:24:28 i'm sure DocScrutinizer05 has it hosted somewhere Feb 25 13:24:39 what? Feb 25 13:24:45 maemo.org Feb 25 13:24:52 o.O Feb 25 13:25:03 ie: hosted on some vhost server Feb 25 13:25:10 Macer: warfare is the sysadmin for *all* maemo infra Feb 25 13:25:24 oh Feb 25 13:25:28 and I'm the manager Feb 25 13:25:55 and right now, the two servers from nokia are in free CoLo at IPHH Feb 25 13:26:09 they're from nokia? Feb 25 13:26:20 Macer: if you wanna know details, check http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Feb 25 13:26:22 i thought nokia dropped the servers and only redirected their dns Feb 25 13:26:44 the opensource fad isn't what it used to be :) Feb 25 13:26:45 they gifted us two quite powerful servers Feb 25 13:26:59 one Feb 25 13:27:02 ouldn't authenticate against garage. (DB problem) Feb 25 13:27:10 with 4 blades with 2 cpu sockets each Feb 25 13:27:15 Couldn't authenticate against garage. (DB problem) Feb 25 13:27:22 * Macer looks around Feb 25 13:27:31 Macer: oops Feb 25 13:27:46 which service? Feb 25 13:28:03 http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Feb 25 13:28:09 o.O Feb 25 13:28:11 wut Feb 25 13:28:26 if i was the cio... you'd be fired as manager lol Feb 25 13:28:28 FUUUUUCK Feb 25 13:28:39 don't make business cards just yet :) Feb 25 13:28:46 shutup Feb 25 13:29:02 bitch at support@nemein.com Feb 25 13:29:09 hehe Feb 25 13:30:09 warfare: please look into it Feb 25 13:30:17 ^^^^ Feb 25 13:30:38 seems aslan has fekkered db when he tried those snapshots Feb 25 13:31:17 [2013-02-25 13:07:45] I wonder if we can get those snapshots out of the grid somehow Feb 25 13:31:19 [2013-02-25 13:07:54] then again, they are huuuge Feb 25 13:31:20 [2013-02-25 13:13:28] and that actually causes interesting problem now Feb 25 13:31:30 "interesting" Feb 25 13:31:30 interesting indeed lol Feb 25 13:31:49 MEH! Feb 25 13:31:53 *sigh* Feb 25 13:35:54 fixed Feb 25 13:36:20 Macer: ^^^ Feb 25 13:40:29 you don't see the irony of that page being down? :) Feb 25 13:41:24 wow.. why is nemein being so kind? Feb 25 13:42:10 HiFo? Feb 25 13:42:11 kerio, look: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1325043&postcount=12 and http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1325044&postcount=13 Feb 25 13:42:39 kerio, I wrote what I know about ubi, ubifs, mounting and flashing Feb 25 13:42:56 i see Feb 25 13:43:15 do you know if there's any "tuneubifs" utility Feb 25 13:43:33 and what should that utility do? Feb 25 13:43:46 there are more ubi* utilities Feb 25 13:44:13 Pali: for instance, change the default compression method Feb 25 13:44:38 there are: ubiattach, ubicrc32, ubidetach, ubiformat, ubimkvol, ubinfo, ubinize, ubirename, ubirmvol, ubirsvol, ubiupdatevol Feb 25 13:45:11 kerio, I do not know if there is support in kernel for other compression method for ubifs Feb 25 13:45:43 compression in ubi most probably optimized for NAND Feb 25 13:45:55 DocScrutinizer05: meh, it's LZO Feb 25 13:45:59 you can also use zlib Feb 25 13:46:02 and no compression Feb 25 13:46:07 it's not like 2hey, let's go for ueber-leete new xyz compression" Feb 25 13:46:12 i kinda wanted to test the latter Feb 25 13:46:16 kerio, you can create new ubifs image with mkfs.ubifs Feb 25 13:46:24 and there is option -x Feb 25 13:46:34 compression type - "lzo", "favor_lzo", "zlib" or "none" (default: "lzo") Feb 25 13:46:57 but there is no utility for modifing ubifs filesystem Feb 25 13:47:35 kerio, so you can unpack rootfs, then create new ubifs file, pack it into ubi image and flash it Feb 25 13:47:42 Macer: only thing i see is a very momentary servie glitch that got fixed by maemo tech staff during <5min after report Feb 25 13:47:57 Pali: ooh, you can also mkfs.ubifs directly on a /dev/ubix_y Feb 25 13:48:06 mkfs.ubifs can create new filesystem in regular file or can call it on /dev/ubi Feb 25 13:48:09 yes Feb 25 13:48:24 but you need to umount ubi dev first Feb 25 13:48:34 so you cannot do it from maemo Feb 25 13:48:44 surely you must have the ubi device attached, to make the ubifs on it Feb 25 13:48:47 Macer: which, given the fact that we're just migratinng the whole shite again, is really really not a tragedy Feb 25 13:49:15 anyway, where would i get the correct parameters for it? Feb 25 13:49:32 other maintainers would simply announce service downtime of two days Feb 25 13:49:34 like the leb size Feb 25 13:50:04 and the minimum I/O unit size Feb 25 13:50:43 ubinfo -a Feb 25 13:50:53 ty Feb 25 13:50:53 and from dmesg Feb 25 13:51:10 Count of bad physical eraseblocks: 1 Feb 25 13:51:12 oh noes D: Feb 25 13:51:28 ubi and ubifs modules in debug mode printinf more in dmesg Feb 25 13:51:35 now going offline, bye Feb 25 13:51:50 Macer: so if I were the IT manager, you would earn a place on my ignore list :-) Feb 25 13:52:44 ticket response time of <300sec, a dream Feb 25 13:53:02 what the hell, why is the logical eraseblock size 126.0KiB Feb 25 13:53:06 nobody with a brain would fire me for that Feb 25 13:53:07 this makes no sense Feb 25 13:54:12 rather they would ask me 2do you need new business cards? We suggest to ad 'wizard extraordinaire' to your title" Feb 25 14:09:13 support@iphh.xxx Feb 25 14:09:24 xxx? Feb 25 14:09:38 heh. is that the actual domain or is that like... covering the end of it? Feb 25 14:10:45 DocScrutinizer05: lol. i was teasing. no need to get all bent out of shape :) Feb 25 14:11:04 even google goes down every now and then Feb 25 14:13:18 weight: ~40kg Feb 25 14:13:21 wow that's pretty heavy Feb 25 14:14:12 wow the repo is only 900GB? Feb 25 14:15:22 seems like a lot for just like 2TB worth of data :) Feb 25 14:17:07 40KG for a switch and 2 servers? why not just run fbsd with zfs with like 3 hard drives for the site/repo/etc and run another vhost for the building bot? Feb 25 14:17:33 hope repos get fixed soon, I'll need to reflash my spare n900, my main has failing cellmo :( Feb 25 14:18:39 Looking for colaboration with 2D-Artist!! (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324416#post1324416) Feb 25 14:19:26 f community can't get control over the DNS, we might revert to maemocommunity.org Feb 25 14:19:33 Macer: this is ONE supermicro server that weighs 40kg Feb 25 14:20:06 ONE iron with 8 CPU sockets Feb 25 14:20:24 usual 2U rackmount Feb 25 14:20:30 does maemo.org still have that much traffic? Feb 25 14:21:17 1300EUR/month for the VM, plus 2200EUR/month for the maintenance Feb 25 14:21:34 plus finnish VAT Feb 25 14:21:36 that is a LOT Of money in the overall scope of things Feb 25 14:21:43 it is not sustainable Feb 25 14:21:55 that's why we don't do it Feb 25 14:21:56 it burns currency for heat Feb 25 14:22:00 lol Feb 25 14:22:24 only the finest heat Feb 25 14:23:04 ShadowJK: everything but rmo extras-devel hashsums seems fine Feb 25 14:23:19 DocScrutinizer05: yeah but then it's still 2200/eu per month + whatever you get the 1300 down to plus tax Feb 25 14:23:22 ouch Feb 25 14:23:32 no Feb 25 14:23:43 no? are you moving the hosting elsewhere ? Feb 25 14:23:48 yes Feb 25 14:24:19 please see http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure#Setup_with_IPHH Feb 25 14:24:53 oh ok.. but then you have to ship it again to PA ? :) Feb 25 14:25:07 to WHAT? Feb 25 14:25:42 oh germany Feb 25 14:25:44 my mistake Feb 25 14:26:08 Plan for migration / Timeline Feb 25 14:26:09 Friday, 22.2. (falk) Feb 25 14:26:11 Rack Hardware @ IPHH - Hardware is racked Feb 25 14:26:20 at the end of this month Feb 25 14:26:33 no, last friday Feb 25 14:26:45 oh and it's already up? that's nice Feb 25 14:26:52 so you bought maemo.org a year :) Feb 25 14:27:24 any indication on what they will want after the year is up? Feb 25 14:27:52 nuttin? Feb 25 14:28:03 probably another crate of beer Feb 25 14:28:09 > This offer is valid for one year and has to be discussed for renewal after 11 Feb 25 14:28:09 > month. Feb 25 14:28:13 lol Feb 25 14:28:26 a crate of good beer Feb 25 14:28:27 :-P Feb 25 14:28:30 germans don't drink crap beer Feb 25 14:29:19 is there an actual hildon foundation office in PA? Feb 25 14:29:34 > Hildon Foundation Feb 25 14:29:34 > 120 West 10th Street, Erie, PA, 16501, USA Feb 25 14:29:39 hm Feb 25 14:29:43 i should see if gmaps has that Feb 25 14:29:43 or they ask for HiFo doing a whole afternoon giving the clowns for the whole IPHH crew ;-) Feb 25 14:30:54 as a revenge for the paper madness HiFo put on us/them Feb 25 14:31:10 (just kidding!) Feb 25 14:32:45 oh Feb 25 14:32:48 it's a lawyer's office Feb 25 14:34:02 knox mclaughlin gornall and sennett = hifo heh Feb 25 14:34:21 how much is the retainer for those legal services? Feb 25 14:35:54 There is still Hildon Foundation? Feb 25 14:36:10 yes... it is called knox mclaughlin gornall and sennett heh Feb 25 14:36:15 And it is not just some folder in a cabinet at a law firm? Feb 25 14:36:34 do law firms still use paper? Feb 25 14:36:44 figured they swapped to notarized pdfs by now :) Feb 25 14:37:07 http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Feb 25 14:37:31 RST38h: i looked at the place on google maps.. i was hoping it was an actual hildon foundation office.. i'd actually go visit something like that Feb 25 14:38:21 that sounds like something that would be cool.. but i can see lawyers anywhere Feb 25 14:42:20 DocScrutinizer05: i thought they actually used .xxx for their addresses heh Feb 25 14:43:11 HiFo an actual office? BWAHAHA Feb 25 14:43:32 they couldn't afford one week of rent for such office Feb 25 14:43:59 since .xxx is an actual TLD nowadays Feb 25 14:44:13 And I wouldn't like them to spend community donations for such BS Feb 25 14:44:22 dafaq, rly? Feb 25 14:44:39 well.. they pay a retainer for the lawyers don't they? Feb 25 14:44:39 next time I use @@@ Feb 25 14:44:46 yeah..... Feb 25 14:44:49 xxx = pr0n Feb 25 14:44:55 LOL Feb 25 14:45:00 just throwing that out there Feb 25 14:45:33 which is why i was curious if those were actual email addresses or not :) Feb 25 14:45:45 or if you were just masking the tld Feb 25 14:45:47 HiFo has paid nuttin except a vBulletin licence so far, afaik Feb 25 14:46:05 oh, some fees for registration I guess Feb 25 14:46:25 well... don't they have the licensing from nokia? :) Feb 25 14:46:33 no Feb 25 14:46:44 so like... what do they......do? Feb 25 14:46:58 Macer: if you find out, let us know Feb 25 14:46:59 gossip with Nokia Feb 25 14:47:05 considering that hildon may be a big part of the ui but not the real bulk of maemo Feb 25 14:47:23 if nokia opened everything up hildon would probably be gone by now heh Feb 25 14:47:32 the name hildon been picked by ... random Feb 25 14:47:43 not related to what HiFo is supposed to do Feb 25 14:47:53 er Feb 25 14:48:06 so the hildon foundation has nothing to do with hildon? Feb 25 14:48:07 heh Feb 25 14:48:18 * Macer scratches his head Feb 25 14:48:42 well, it has to do with maemo (and beyond, though I feel they put way too much emphasis to that one) Feb 25 14:49:07 but since maemo is a trademark by nokia, HiFo had to pick a different name Feb 25 14:49:11 iirc Feb 25 14:49:45 also some guys felt maemo foundation was "too limiting in what it suggests this entity is doing" Feb 25 14:49:52 again I can't agree Feb 25 14:49:58 er... what else do they do? Feb 25 14:50:05 do they feed starving kids in subsaharan africa? Feb 25 14:50:18 they seem to have "a mission" - that nobody exactly knows of Feb 25 14:50:46 who is in the hildon foundation? Feb 25 14:50:46 something above and beyond maemo (and meego) Feb 25 14:50:50 is there a list of names? Feb 25 14:50:54 sure Feb 25 14:51:01 do they have their own site? heh Feb 25 14:51:35 i miss symbian. using my e7 made me miss it. i love maemo because of the linuxness of it but symbian is pretty awesome too :-/ Feb 25 14:51:41 http://hildonfoundation.org/about/ Feb 25 14:51:52 i guess maybe because it uses a lot of qt and the interface seems close to maemo minus the xserver and gnu stuff Feb 25 14:52:24 i used to think symbian was dated until i tried belle.. nokia had a lot going for themselves with it but didn't stay the path Feb 25 14:52:33 but honestly, I feel like spoonfeeding stuff you could look up $anywhere Feb 25 14:52:36 it could have marketed well in the US Feb 25 14:52:56 4 guys? LOL Feb 25 14:53:21 three, ivgalvez left Feb 25 14:53:25 founded in September 2012......... wtf? Feb 25 14:53:27 and one is a treasurer Feb 25 14:53:43 >>to handle community oversight and infrastructure.> OMG Feb 25 14:53:59 to handle community assets Feb 25 14:54:02 period Feb 25 14:54:19 HAHAHHAHAHA Feb 25 14:54:24 yeah i'm reading that now Feb 25 14:54:41 like... i don't understand how there was a "vote" for these 3 guys :) Feb 25 14:54:55 was it done via maemo.org? Feb 25 14:54:57 that's the fundamental problem with HiFo Feb 25 14:55:04 or some other method? Feb 25 14:55:16 there been an election Feb 25 14:55:22 of some kind Feb 25 14:55:40 but how was the election done? i don't understand... you can pay china to make fake accounts and vote for people online i'm sure Feb 25 14:56:06 i don't think that there were more than three candidates for board Feb 25 14:56:06 china sells fake facebook girlfriends for ultimate losers and closeted homosexuals.. i'm sure they can rig an online election rather easily Feb 25 14:56:46 kerio: maybe i will see how they were "voted in" on their site Feb 25 14:56:51 let me finish their "open letter" Feb 25 14:57:13 Macer: also read the thread on tmo Feb 25 14:57:58 The Hildon Foundation and, specifically, the Foundation Board should be viewed in quite a different light, though. It is the Hildon Foundation that will oversee the transition of the Maemo Community away from Nokia and into the hands of the community. Of course, the Foundation is also very concerned with ongoing development within both the Mer and Nemo projects, so facilitating their future is also quite important. Feb 25 14:58:08 uhm Feb 25 14:58:17 DocScrutinizer05: are you one of those 3 guys? :) Feb 25 14:58:22 or warfare ? Feb 25 14:58:26 eh? Feb 25 14:58:32 Macer: Nope. Feb 25 14:58:44 <- just providing brains. Feb 25 14:58:49 so uhm........ the question has to be asked.. Feb 25 14:58:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council Feb 25 14:58:54 if it is a nonprofit ..... Feb 25 14:59:12 can't you request books? :) Feb 25 15:00:04 Niel Nielsen Feb 25 15:00:08 what an odd name Feb 25 15:00:18 please ask that on http://hildonfoundation.org/about/ Feb 25 15:00:30 but it's a non-profit Feb 25 15:00:33 they have to have open books Feb 25 15:00:38 you can request them from the govt usually Feb 25 15:00:41 >>> i'm sure they can rig an online election rather easily <<< Seriously? Such statement(s) make even valid criticism sound lame and worthless... Feb 25 15:00:45 especially if they're based in the US Feb 25 15:00:58 and ESPECIALLY if you've contributed :) Feb 25 15:01:03 ie: given money Feb 25 15:01:45 thedead1440: ??? Feb 25 15:01:45 there is a donors' wall that i've been pushing them to update more frequently; it lists the vbulletin licence cost and if ever any further payments are made they will end up there Feb 25 15:01:51 books for non-profits are supposed to be transparent so the nonprofit isn't a scam.. you can request tx forms Feb 25 15:02:13 thedead1440: yeah but if it's just a money scam then i'm sure they'll just trudge through mud getting that going Feb 25 15:02:17 or say "we have decided..." Feb 25 15:02:19 lol Feb 25 15:02:27 Macer: again, please ask that on http://hildonfoundation.org/about/ Feb 25 15:02:29 sounds like the open source evangelists to me Feb 25 15:02:37 Macer: the people on HiFo are NOT without integrity; merely they don't get the facts of the situation and hence end up making wrong decisions Feb 25 15:03:20 were they involved at all with the server transition? :) Feb 25 15:03:24 mixing incompetence of sorts with lack of integrity is not something that should be done Feb 25 15:03:45 Macer: no, basically not Feb 25 15:03:54 thedead1440: how can integrity be measured without proof? Feb 25 15:04:08 as a nonprofit you would think that the money given would be completely transparent Feb 25 15:04:18 DocScrutinizer05: I was referring to Macer's comment of HiFo rigging the election to be voted in which in all honesty is very lame Feb 25 15:04:41 thedead1440: i am merely saying that an online vote seems a bit...... unrealistic Feb 25 15:05:04 Macer: did you read the procedure for voting tokens etc? Feb 25 15:05:05 Macer: WTF are you heading at? Feb 25 15:05:11 Guess not! so read then comment Feb 25 15:05:36 otherwise anyone reading the logs of this channel would think everyone who criticizes HiFo has a similar train of thought like you Feb 25 15:05:54 thedead1440: i did Feb 25 15:06:10 then stop asking such stupid questions Feb 25 15:06:12 my point being that 1 person can have multiple persona which can establish the criteria required to vote Feb 25 15:06:31 Macer: guess you didn't read thoroughly then Feb 25 15:06:44 you needed to have a maemo.org for at least 3 months with a karma of 10 Feb 25 15:07:01 pretty easy for someone to be duplicating personas en-masse? Feb 25 15:07:04 wasn't that 100 Feb 25 15:07:05 ? Feb 25 15:07:15 DocScrutinizer05: 100 was for candidates; 10 for voters Feb 25 15:07:27 thedead1440: er..... Feb 25 15:07:48 s/maemo.org /maemo.org account / Feb 25 15:08:00 thedead1440: although Feb 25 15:08:12 * DocScrutinizer05 wanders off, bored Feb 25 15:08:14 in your example ... that is for the maemo council is it not? Feb 25 15:08:15 remember maemo.org account not only tmo account but maemo.org proper Feb 25 15:08:39 Macer: it was for both elections Feb 25 15:08:51 i don't know.. without any form of authentication votes seem arbitrary Feb 25 15:08:52 iirc even coding competition had something similar Feb 25 15:09:29 Macer: where were you to suggest alternatives at the time of reckoning? Feb 25 15:09:51 Please don't lay fingers on people's integrity just because of a dislike of them Feb 25 15:10:03 i don't know anybody to dislike them Feb 25 15:10:16 i'm merely stating an opinion on the ability to scam votes Feb 25 15:10:33 There's so much power in HiFo, I can see why a scam would be worthwhile to set up. Feb 25 15:10:52 You might possibly have access to hundreds--or even thousands!--of dollars. Feb 25 15:10:56 GeneralAntilles: lol... well... my concern would be more so someone using donations to pay their mortgage :) Feb 25 15:11:12 GeneralAntilles: anything is something Feb 25 15:11:57 and i'm sure when maemo was in its prime it was far more than that :) Feb 25 15:12:06 there were how many; 4 candidates maybe? Woody had said not to vote for him so how could the other 3 possibly set-up a scam? Feb 25 15:12:08 Macer: that is why HiFo is a registered NPO afaik Feb 25 15:13:02 thedead1440: i don't know... let me turn in my foia request and see what they send me back :) i'm printing it now Feb 25 15:13:30 you can request nonprofit tax returns as well as other information.. not sure how much the govt would request from the hifo directly tho Feb 25 15:13:30 Macer: sure Feb 25 15:13:33 but i'm curious Feb 25 15:13:40 i'm not doing anything now anyways Feb 25 15:13:55 i can drop it off in the mailbox when i pick up my son from school Feb 25 15:17:06 http://www.irs.gov/uac/IRS-Freedom-of-Information Feb 25 15:17:09 there it is Feb 25 15:17:28 Tax-exempt or political organization returns:By phone: Contact the Tax Exempt/Government Entities Hotline at (877) 829-5500, or send completed Form 4506-A to the address printed on the form. Feb 25 15:22:55 yay, how exciting. and so much to the point of the problems we're facing Feb 25 15:31:50 Hi, I am trying to sync the calendar on my N900 with google calendars. I try to do this with the "Exchange Mail" in the settings sections, following this guide: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sync#Synchronising_with_Google and I get an error Feb 25 15:32:13 anyone can help? Or suggest me another easy way to sync claendars and tasks on the n900 ? Feb 25 15:32:24 daedhel: Google removed support for Exchange on 31/01/13 Feb 25 15:32:36 oh I see Feb 25 15:32:47 sucks, eh? Feb 25 15:32:54 yeah... Feb 25 15:33:02 what do you guys use to sync you calendars? Feb 25 15:33:14 i've been looking for a calendar provider Feb 25 15:33:24 i don't trust google... Feb 25 15:33:41 (does maemo do caldav?) Feb 25 15:38:29 maybe there is an update of this method that could help: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75810 Feb 25 15:40:33 ok Feb 25 15:41:20 other than that, is there a simple way to sync calendars with anything? like thunderbird or other solutions like that? and I mean locally or in the cloud, whatever, just a way to sync it ? Feb 25 15:41:49 hotmail exchange seems to work till date Feb 25 16:57:02 "Don't open connections in parallel, that brings the little devices down to their knees." Feb 25 16:57:10 in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00maemo Feb 25 16:57:14 oh you Feb 25 18:15:39 eh? Feb 25 18:16:32 hmmm Feb 25 18:16:49 you tried to comment it out? Feb 25 18:34:51 thedead1440: hotmail exchange works Feb 25 18:35:06 daedhel: good to hear that :) Feb 25 18:35:28 its just a shame to have to go tru thos big corps for syncing... i'd rather do this on my own Feb 25 18:35:44 new www.maemo.org works Feb 25 18:35:46 with ownclou or something similar Feb 25 18:35:55 thedead1440: anyway, thanks for the cue ! :) Feb 25 18:36:07 np Feb 25 18:41:58 DocScrutinizer05: yay Feb 25 18:54:23 DocScrutinizer05: new as in on the new iron? Feb 25 18:54:33 yoh Feb 25 18:54:39 yay :) Feb 25 18:55:37 you're free to hack your etc hosts and try it, but there's not much to see yet Feb 25 18:56:06 also, *.m.o doesn't work yet, only m.o/* Feb 25 18:56:57 w.m.o for example still missing db Feb 25 18:57:33 same for b.m.o Feb 25 18:57:39 DocScrutinizer05: iirc those are VMs, so I guess it is matter of bringing them up and tweaking the IP addresses Feb 25 18:57:48 yep Feb 25 18:57:55 DocScrutinizer05, something new about autobuilder, extras-devel or expired nokia gpg key? Feb 25 18:58:01 (not that it is a trivial task) Feb 25 18:58:05 nope, alas not Feb 25 18:58:44 merlin working on fixing hashsum by rebuilding it Feb 25 18:59:10 X-Fade MIA, so no news with autobuilder Feb 25 18:59:30 for gpg key issue, _you_ are da man Feb 25 18:59:58 well, I'd say gpg key issue is way worse than autobuilder Feb 25 19:00:17 as soon or later it will be under our control (autobuilder) Feb 25 19:00:23 also way more outside of our domain Feb 25 19:00:45 so even x-fade don;t fix it, we'll do Feb 25 19:00:55 *even if Feb 25 19:01:34 yeah, enentually we might be able to do this, but for now nobody has the expertise Feb 25 19:01:40 eventually* Feb 25 19:02:05 DocScrutinizer05: shouldn;t be that big problem. alsi IIRX woody said he has some clue about it Feb 25 19:02:11 *also Feb 25 19:02:39 nah, woody has a clue about midgard, not so much about autobuilder Feb 25 19:03:04 he's fixind and augmenting our voting infra Feb 25 19:03:33 ooh, right Feb 25 19:03:48 however, there are plenty of developers around ;) Feb 25 19:04:37 yeah, but we can't let a bunch of "$random devels" raid over autobuilder Feb 25 19:07:05 DocScrutinizer05: sure, but "we" or "you" can give them some logs Feb 25 19:07:46 np Feb 25 19:07:59 I can give all the logs you want Feb 25 19:13:21 woody to the rescue \o/ Feb 25 19:13:45 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1325132&postcount=15 Feb 25 19:26:00 \o/ Feb 25 20:03:35 what's a >>fiefdom< canada post is sloooow Feb 25 20:05:21 ding for ".ie.dom" gives me "chiefdom" Feb 25 20:06:02 * DocScrutinizer05 feels reminded on looneytoons Feb 25 20:33:50 28th? I can't wait that long! Feb 25 20:58:54 for you geeks: http://213.128.137.6/mrtg/ Feb 25 20:59:10 network pr0n Feb 25 20:59:33 *drowls* Feb 25 21:01:51 DocScrutinizer05: wtf is the uplink to iphh Feb 25 21:02:12 our network cable? Feb 25 21:02:15 i see Feb 25 21:02:23 are we transferring something? Feb 25 21:02:29 sure, fool Feb 25 21:02:35 we're migrating stuff Feb 25 21:03:00 900GB repo for example Feb 25 21:03:30 :-) Feb 25 21:04:23 nice, isn't it? Feb 25 21:06:59 [2013-02-25 16:45:47] xes: I see >>188.117.59.205 => 213.128.137.4 43.1Mb 38.3Mb 38.5Mb<< and "--bwlimit=5000" Feb 25 21:07:00 [2013-02-25 16:46:11] I wouldn't mind going higher with the limit Feb 25 21:08:05 so, if rmo is a tad slow today, you know why Feb 25 21:28:21 Macer got boring evening, eh? Feb 25 21:28:42 and I though that my points about competences and moral value could be boring for readers Feb 25 21:29:07 maemo, never stop suprising you (tm) Feb 25 21:50:52 Anyone using evernote on n900? Feb 25 21:52:23 900G? !? Feb 25 22:04:51 a1 Feb 25 22:04:54 http://www.irs.gov/file_source/pub/irs-pdf/f4506a.pdf Feb 25 22:05:00 Estel_: huh? Feb 25 22:05:24 no not really... i need to send one in for another organization anyways Feb 25 22:05:34 so i can kill 2 birds with one stone :) Feb 25 22:06:57 Public disclosure by the organizatin. Exempt or political organizations must make their returns, reports, notices, and exempt applications available for public inspection. You can visit the organization to insepct the material instead of requesting it from the IRS. The organization may be able to mail the copies to you. Feb 25 22:12:53 ok. so i just made the request in their "contact us" section of hildonfoundation.org Feb 25 22:13:01 so lets see what happens :) Feb 25 22:19:35 Macer: they will cheer since they got nothing to do and you give them an interesting task to deal with, so they don't feel bored the whole day Feb 25 22:19:44 lol Feb 25 22:19:57 well they do have a donar wall Feb 25 22:20:07 and since dec 12 they're up to 3300 net Feb 25 22:20:15 so what? Feb 25 22:20:16 i wonder what the fee is that costs them like 5% Feb 25 22:20:30 wtf?? paypal Feb 25 22:20:56 100 -4.2 95.8 Feb 25 22:21:04 4.2% Feb 25 22:21:05 you send them a letter to find out about that?? Feb 25 22:21:29 100 gross 4.20 fee 95.80 net Feb 25 22:21:35 T F go to paypal and read about their fees! Feb 25 22:21:51 lol.. paypal is 4.2% for a transaction? Feb 25 22:21:53 that's harsh Feb 25 22:21:59 instead of pestering us with nonsense Feb 25 22:22:27 actually, nonsense is better than silence Feb 25 22:22:38 Small Fee - PayPal fees mainly apply to sellers, who pay a 2.9% transaction fee on the total sale amount plus a $0.30 fee per transaction. Feb 25 22:23:30 http://thefeecalculator.com/ Feb 25 22:23:31 MohammadAG: come to where I am and listen the "silence" Feb 25 22:23:52 You can also use a debit or credit card or make an international transfer for a small fee. Feb 25 22:23:57 hm .. could be the international fee Feb 25 22:24:07 http://salecalc.com/paypal actually this shows fees more Feb 25 22:24:43 DocScrutinizer05, I'm having a hard day already Feb 25 22:24:50 I got a 1 star rating for the first time :( Feb 25 22:25:14 3.9% for international "sales" but are nfps considered "sales" ? heh Feb 25 22:26:36 oh Feb 25 22:26:40 nfp is 2.2% Feb 25 22:27:05 If sending $100.00, the amount that will go to fees is $2.50 and the recipient will receive $97.50. That's 2.5% going to fees, effectively. Feb 25 22:28:42 so i'm a bit curious why the hildon foundation fee was 4.2%.. i don't think international rates apply for nfp but who knows but nearly double even if? Feb 25 22:29:31 then people wonder why i don't donate to charity :) cancer society only has 15% of its money going towards actual research while its ceo drives a 6 figure car Feb 25 22:41:18 Macer: 4.2% from paypal isn't that bad if you consider that credit card companies take about 2-3% for nothing Feb 25 22:41:48 Macer: as in, they have no risk (it's bank that has to pay out in case of any problems) and it costs them almost nothing (bank pays for cards as well) Feb 25 22:42:09 Macer: paypal at least bears some part of the risk Feb 25 22:43:23 but well, yeah, charities suck Feb 25 22:48:13 but paypal says it's 2.2 for nfp... so where is the other 2% coming from in the fee? Feb 25 22:48:41 paypal most likely gets a nice little tax break for transmitting money to nfp at a reduced rate :) Feb 25 22:49:03 they get to put pink ribbons and what not on their site during breast cancer month or whatever Feb 25 22:51:39 paypal in practice is mostly arbitrary Feb 25 22:51:56 their dispute resolution process is powered by a random number generator that is tilted 99% in favour of whatever gives paypal the most money Feb 25 22:58:55 it's not Feb 25 22:59:04 it's in favour of the buyer. Feb 25 22:59:09 almost all the time. Feb 25 23:00:04 sellers getting defrauded and offloading the costs onto the seller is OK. Feb 25 23:00:21 buyers getting defrauded are what they are worried about. Feb 25 23:00:55 if the buyer sends you back a brick, tracked, you in essentially 100% of disputes will lose. Feb 25 23:03:52 ShadowJK: lol Feb 25 23:04:52 ebay owns paypal doesn't it? Feb 25 23:04:56 or vice versa? Feb 25 23:05:37 yes Feb 25 23:08:05 they should have named it ebaynk Feb 25 23:08:53 for the most part transactions seem to work out rather well on ebay. at least in my experience Feb 25 23:09:47 then again tho nowadays it seems that ebay is nothing but buy it nows Feb 25 23:10:03 might as well shop at amazon.. every now and then you may come across some niche thing to bid on :) Feb 25 23:21:55 I'm pissed that they gutted search Feb 25 23:22:04 wildcards now don't work Feb 25 23:22:43 good luck finding - for example - things with a year in the title where you want one of a couple of decades Feb 25 23:22:59 and yes, the example of a workaround was the retarded one Feb 25 23:25:37 I buy cheap Chinese electronic crap Feb 25 23:25:48 couple of SPI 128x64 1" OLED modules showed up today. Feb 25 23:29:19 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Lithium-Battery-Digital-Voltmeter-DC-3-3v-17V-Blue-LED-Small-Panel-Meter-/170846277331 Feb 25 23:30:08 blue LEDs! Feb 25 23:30:11 wooooo! Feb 26 00:17:21 Macer: please stop suggesting that HiFo is rogue and stealing your money! Feb 26 00:17:39 >:-( Feb 26 00:18:29 HiFo has no NFP paypal account, if that helps Feb 26 00:18:42 to make you stop that BS Feb 26 00:26:24 DocScrutinizer05: oh .... i'm sorry. didn't think i was being rude or anything. but someone has to ask these questions.. you never know :) either way. i sent in the foia request a while ago. Feb 26 00:26:46 DocScrutinizer05: why wouldn't they have a nfp account? that seems a bit odd. Feb 26 00:27:28 since they have terrible problems getting their sh*t sorted, with bank accounts and whatnot Feb 26 00:28:47 we're waiting for a proper bank account to transfer money without using paypal since day one of roof-on-fire campaign Feb 26 00:29:21 hm. why wouldn't you use paypal? Feb 26 00:29:22 until recently they used cosimo's private paypal account afaik Feb 26 00:29:36 many people don't like PP Feb 26 00:29:40 for an instant wire xfer of funds 2.2% is actually pretty decent Feb 26 00:30:03 i would guess that using visa/mc/amex would probably cost more Feb 26 00:30:15 yes, and international bank transfer is *extremely* expensive Feb 26 00:30:20 as well as require a donar to possess one of those cards Feb 26 00:30:20 PayPal sucks. Feb 26 00:30:29 more like 15% plus a fixum on top Feb 26 00:30:30 the alternatives generally suck more. Feb 26 00:30:38 SpeedEvil: exactly.. a lot more Feb 26 00:30:45 especially if paypal has a flat rate on nfp Feb 26 00:30:46 indeed. Feb 26 00:31:28 i wired my sisterm $100 one day through a bank wire xfer... i had no idea it was so expensive Feb 26 00:31:39 they charged me $20 and her $20 on the other end.. that's outrageous Feb 26 00:31:44 there are actually people in this world that don't have a card at all Feb 26 00:32:11 DocScrutinizer05: that too.. paypal allows the use of bank acct numbers Feb 26 00:32:14 mobile payment is taking off in a big way in Kenya and some other countries Feb 26 00:32:34 to the extent of moving ~20% of GDP Feb 26 00:32:46 DocScrutinizer05: there's always the lump of cash in the envelope lol Feb 26 00:33:47 but either way... seems like a while just to get a bank account going and registered as a nfp account then registering with paypal Feb 26 00:33:49 well, here we got banks that take that money and transfer it to the bank account you tell them to. Actually they also take 7.50EUR for that now Feb 26 00:34:36 DocScrutinizer05: here too but they charge you outrageous fees Feb 26 00:34:52 it is really only practical for business use for large sums Feb 26 00:35:04 and even then i'd rather mail a check lol.. out of spite Feb 26 00:35:18 don't ask me what they thought or did, it's not exactly easy at least here in Germany where Cosimo lives, to open a bank account for an american NFP Feb 26 00:36:13 really? i figured ze germans would be incredibly efficient at such things ;) Feb 26 00:36:32 and probably similarly difficult for HiFo's cashier Cosimo to open a bank account in USA Feb 26 00:36:56 does the bank account have to be in the US with paypal donars? Feb 26 00:37:03 We are incredibly efficient with stopping money washing Feb 26 00:37:10 oh haha Feb 26 00:37:16 for the small business Feb 26 00:37:26 money washing lol Feb 26 00:37:30 for big business we do nothing Feb 26 00:37:47 so they can just be smuggling drug money in at out with no regulation Feb 26 00:37:50 whatever the term in English, been too lazy to look it up Feb 26 00:37:55 but the bread shop on the corner is suspect :) Feb 26 00:37:57 laundering ;) Feb 26 00:38:09 thanks Feb 26 00:38:10 similar word tho i suppose Feb 26 00:38:19 i just figured that's what they called it in eu Feb 26 00:39:26 yeag "money laundry" or "wash the money" Feb 26 00:39:34 yeah Feb 26 00:39:49 ironically enough most dictionaries nowadays probably consider the money definition as the first definition of launder Feb 26 00:39:55 and not the washing clothes definition :) Feb 26 00:40:09 it's actually officially called Geldwaeschegesetz afaik Feb 26 00:41:16 what is the literal translation? Feb 26 00:41:39 Money Laundry Law Feb 26 00:41:50 oh... waesche looks like wash heh Feb 26 00:41:51 gwG Feb 26 00:41:54 GwG Feb 26 00:42:31 gesetz is law or act? Feb 26 00:43:05 both Feb 26 00:43:08 it'd odd how Germans string 3 words along like that.. but i suppose english does the same thing but compound words are a bit rare Feb 26 00:43:19 http://www.ihk-nuernberg.de/de/Geschaeftsbereiche/Recht-Steuern/Rechtsauskuenfte/Allg.-Rechtsauskuenfte-Vertragsrecht2/Geldwaeschegesetz.html Feb 26 00:43:57 even tho we do use a lot of greek and latin prefixes/suffixes etc so i suppose that could be considered the same method Feb 26 00:46:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denglish Feb 26 00:47:06 ^F compound Feb 26 01:01:00 gerglish lol Feb 26 01:03:58 This is often called Deppenleerstelle, or Deppenleerzeichen which means idiot's space, incorrectly separating parts of a compound word. Feb 26 01:04:01 HAHAHAHA Feb 26 01:04:05 nice! Feb 26 01:05:09 smoking means dinner suit? :) Feb 26 01:06:20 trampen is hitchhiking? :) Feb 26 01:06:28 i think ze germans got that one wrong heh Feb 26 01:06:42 as well as bodybag Feb 26 01:20:10 bodybag is a nice one, yeah ;-P Feb 26 01:22:53 ze germans, are you waiting for them? Feb 26 01:27:42 mein kamph! Feb 26 01:27:50 ze germans zare no zmatch! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 26 02:59:58 2013