**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 02 02:59:59 2013 Mar 02 03:26:02 i can't seem to find out how to install the maemo sdk Mar 02 03:37:24 alec_: use the virtual image from http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo-dev-env-downloads/ Mar 02 03:43:46 ok, thanks, thedead1440 Mar 02 03:44:10 that seems like the ideal solution Mar 02 03:52:31 I wonder if it would be possible to set up a native SDK Mar 02 03:54:20 however unpractical it might be Mar 02 03:55:01 any advantages to that setup, zaerc? Mar 02 03:55:17 i just want to cross-compile transmission-gtk >= v2.6 Mar 02 03:55:24 er, transmission-cli Mar 02 03:55:35 because transmission in the repos doesn't support magnet links Mar 02 03:55:37 other then that it would be very slow? I don't think so Mar 02 03:55:42 ah Mar 02 03:56:01 it would just be for fun Mar 02 03:56:16 yeah Mar 02 03:56:25 I guess I've been playing with easy-debian to much ;) Mar 02 03:56:35 btw, how does stuff in /opt end up in the PATH? Mar 02 03:56:53 because if i `echo $PATH` i just get /usr/bin and /bin Mar 02 03:57:11 so obviously there's some kind of behind-the-scenes magic Mar 02 03:57:18 the problem is that it's a bit inconsistent Mar 02 03:57:29 stuff like that is usually set in the shell's startup scripts Mar 02 03:57:41 for instance, coreutils-gnu installs into a gnu subdirectory that's not part of the PATH Mar 02 03:57:51 ok Mar 02 03:58:05 what is the startup script for ash/xterminal? Mar 02 03:58:08 .ashrc? Mar 02 03:58:09 like /etc/profile, ~/.profile, ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bashrc Mar 02 03:58:26 yeah that could be one of them too Mar 02 04:00:03 for the time being, you can always do: export PATH=$PATH:/opt/whatever Mar 02 04:00:12 i won't =) Mar 02 04:00:21 i did that and bricked my phone Mar 02 04:00:24 no idea how Mar 02 04:00:43 suddenly nothing was executable Mar 02 04:00:48 the OS wouldn't start Mar 02 04:01:04 hmmm, that must have been some other issue Mar 02 04:01:06 there seems to be some kind of behind-the-scenes magic regarding the PATH Mar 02 04:01:39 is there a way to install maemo in an emulator so that i can run commands on my computer before running them on my phone? Mar 02 04:02:12 emulator/vm? Mar 02 04:02:57 should be possible, but I can't tell you how Mar 02 04:03:01 ok Mar 02 04:03:31 * eccerr0r types in PATH=$PATH:/opt/whatever into a pty... Mar 02 04:03:58 OH NO !!! IT... Mar 02 04:04:01 didn't do anything! Mar 02 04:04:27 you forgot the "export" in front ;) Mar 02 04:05:28 and it's funnier when you kill your irc client :D Mar 02 04:05:41 heh Mar 02 04:06:17 would be even funnier if it killed the n900 AND my bnc :) Mar 02 04:07:56 i also chmod -x'ed /usr/bin/find Mar 02 04:08:00 that could have been the thing that did it Mar 02 04:08:11 why would you do that? Mar 02 04:08:12 but the problem didn't start until i exported the PATH Mar 02 04:08:37 chmod -x find would kill your system Mar 02 04:08:45 because i had installed gnu find and wanted to run it with the -exec option Mar 02 04:08:57 why does it? Mar 02 04:09:01 yeah... that's exactly what happend Mar 02 04:09:07 ok Mar 02 04:09:08 you killed your system by chmod -x find... Mar 02 04:09:22 if you rm find, or mv find find.old --- these are ok Mar 02 04:09:28 but chmod -x find = bad things happen Mar 02 04:09:45 weird Mar 02 04:09:49 any clue why? Mar 02 04:09:59 startup scripts go haywire? Mar 02 04:10:04 because it's a symlink to busybox which is very important Mar 02 04:10:16 well, everything just stopped being executable at that point Mar 02 04:10:18 everything Mar 02 04:10:18 ah right... and ouch Mar 02 04:10:38 hard or soft link, eccerr0r? Mar 02 04:11:14 doesnt matter Mar 02 04:11:35 alec_: next time try adding the path to your new "find" in front Mar 02 04:11:51 then do "hash -r" (iirc Mar 02 04:11:52 PATH=newpath:$PATH :D Mar 02 04:13:16 you can check which one is being used with "type find" Mar 02 04:13:41 wow... questions for the powers that be, if you did something silly like delete busybox...is this recoverable on the n900? Mar 02 04:13:59 like for a regular PC you could still boot with another disk to recover...will bootmenu help Mar 02 04:14:02 ? Mar 02 04:14:48 heh, I don't have that much experience yet, and I hope I never will ;) Mar 02 04:15:33 if the bootloader still works, you might be able to boot off SD-card Mar 02 04:15:36 * eccerr0r only had his n900 for no more than 2 months... no exp with it yet either Mar 02 04:15:39 I think Mar 02 04:15:55 ahh that would be nice if you could root=the sd card Mar 02 04:16:15 kernel should be fine even if you deleted busybox or libc... Mar 02 04:16:18 You can always reflah (parts of) your system Mar 02 04:16:27 you may need to install one of the advance bootloaders for that Mar 02 04:16:31 advanced Mar 02 04:16:52 the N900 is nearly unbrickable, because it's got this other bit of firmware to allow for flashing Mar 02 04:16:59 even if your OS partitions totally trashed Mar 02 04:17:15 thanks robbiethe1st Mar 02 04:17:38 would be nice to unbrick plus not damage any data on the phone :D Mar 02 04:18:07 For that, you need Backupmenu to be installed before you brick it Mar 02 04:18:31 aha. Mar 02 04:18:55 if you could use that to change the root disk... I better install it :D Mar 02 04:19:12 and there's also sth like RescueOS I think? Mar 02 04:19:21 Yup; install that & power kernel and you've got shell access Mar 02 04:19:35 on-device, in a pre-boot environment Mar 02 04:20:05 very nice Mar 02 04:20:09 sweet Mar 02 04:20:09 as long as you can use another root disk Mar 02 04:20:38 because if you whack your libc or busybox, no shell either... Mar 02 04:20:42 also note how the partitions are: You've got a 256MB rootfs which is on the CPU-chip-module, 2GB /home/ partition, and 28GB fat32 data storage Mar 02 04:20:59 all of your user data is on the latter two partitions Mar 02 04:21:12 all of the libc/executables are on the first Mar 02 04:21:18 ideally if one could select root=/dev/mmc1p0 or something like that Mar 02 04:21:47 zaerc, what are the advanced bootloaders? what can they do? Mar 02 04:21:48 That's possible with the bootmenu package, but I don't know exactly how it'd all work Mar 02 04:22:16 so you can *just* flash/reload over the 256mb partition, all your user data is fine(just need to reinstall app packages) and everything's fine. Mar 02 04:22:21 BRB, guys, dinner. Mar 02 04:22:22 basically you install shell+libc on the microsd card, then you can mount your internal partitions and fix them Mar 02 04:22:32 robbiethe1st: enjoy! Mar 02 04:22:58 alec_: tbh it was quite a while when I messed with that Mar 02 04:23:21 but the one on mine gives a menu if you boot with the keyboard open Mar 02 04:23:45 I think it's called u-boot but I'm not sure Mar 02 04:24:14 I just had the device and was trying just about everything I could find Mar 02 04:24:58 maybe it came with kernel-power, or the other way around Mar 02 04:26:31 and it was all new so I didn't want to mess with that too much... I think we all know how that usually ends ;) Mar 02 04:27:56 sigh... still worried about breaking my n900 while doing proactive maintenance (i.e. microusb reinforcement)... Mar 02 04:28:55 just don't use bug connectors like adaptors Mar 02 04:29:11 big, not bug :p Mar 02 04:29:32 ahh Mar 02 04:29:34 ok Mar 02 04:29:36 can i boot anything interesting with u-boot? Mar 02 04:29:42 eh... but I want to be able to use any microusb I want =\ Mar 02 04:30:09 well it should be possible to put a whole different system on an SD-card I think Mar 02 04:30:26 put android on the sd-card? :D Mar 02 04:30:32 * alec_ idly wonders if it's possible to craft a 'live distribution' to run on the n900 that can be loaded from the bootloader Mar 02 04:30:33 haven't tried that yet though Mar 02 04:31:02 that would be the thing to do, nitdroid on the microsd? Mar 02 04:33:18 see: https://elektranox.org/n900/installation/manual.html Mar 02 04:34:14 that's a regular debian booted from SD I think Mar 02 04:34:40 what *really* would be nice... boot off of host mode USB :) Mar 02 04:34:53 that theoretically should be possible too? Mar 02 04:35:29 I still haven't gotten around to trying hostmode Mar 02 04:35:31 sweet Mar 02 04:35:59 but you can always chroot I reckon Mar 02 04:36:34 I don't think I'd do root-on-host mode usb ever though... Mar 02 04:36:54 but it should be a possibility... Mar 02 04:37:04 I really need to even install power kernel on my n900 Mar 02 04:37:23 I'm thinking about modding a powered USB hub just for hostmode Mar 02 04:37:59 erm Mar 02 04:38:28 'you are about to flash a new kernel image into device NAND memory, but new version string of kernel image is not similar to old' Mar 02 04:39:38 sounds scary, maybe someone more knowledgable can comment? Mar 02 04:39:55 i'm just going to make use of backupmenu... that should take care of it, right? Mar 02 04:40:24 I wish I knew Mar 02 04:41:18 i hate how /etc/sudoers always gets overwritten Mar 02 04:41:25 seems to happen whenever i install stuff Mar 02 04:42:20 that is annoying Mar 02 04:43:13 I've just put my public ssh key under the root's account Mar 02 04:43:30 so that I can ssh into the root account, without a password even Mar 02 04:43:38 clever Mar 02 04:44:05 and then I can just "su - user" when needed Mar 02 04:44:20 yes Mar 02 04:44:25 i don't like being root Mar 02 04:44:31 I don't even know the passwords Mar 02 04:44:34 i prefer sudo; i do less damage Mar 02 04:45:00 I'm used to it, great learning experience ;) Mar 02 04:45:02 ahh... backing up OptFS with tar in backupmenu is indeed slow Mar 02 04:45:58 ah thanks for warning about /etc/sudoers... i think adding a file in /etc/sudoers.d maybe the solution to the overwriting... Mar 02 04:45:58 * alec_ goes to the store for some tobacco Mar 02 04:46:09 good idea Mar 02 04:46:19 nice workaround Mar 02 04:47:27 (and then run update-sudoers if you made your own file) Mar 02 04:47:51 ah, that is good to know Mar 02 04:57:31 you both just got your phones, eccerr0r and zaerc? Mar 02 04:58:20 me, just a bit over a month now I think Mar 02 04:59:09 ahh, i got mine 2 days ago from ebay; i had been waiting for 3 years for the price to go down Mar 02 04:59:25 but I'm a long time Linux/Unix user... only reason I had to buy one :D Mar 02 04:59:47 yep Mar 02 04:59:50 it was a replacement for my symbian 5230 phone that I broke Mar 02 04:59:54 I got mine less then a year ago Mar 02 04:59:55 same here; i've been using gnu/linux for 10 years Mar 02 04:59:59 ah Mar 02 05:00:30 any pet peeves about the phone so far, eccerr0r? Mar 02 05:00:46 hmm... my linux-10 was several years back... linux-20 is coming :D Mar 02 05:00:53 nice =) Mar 02 05:00:59 Battery life and how delicate the microusb port is Mar 02 05:01:11 that's the only two things I dislike about the phone. Mar 02 05:01:23 other than hildon being closed source Mar 02 05:01:32 yeah Mar 02 05:01:40 that's a huge pain IMO Mar 02 05:01:47 hildon itself is a pain Mar 02 05:02:04 it's not that bad, but bloaty Mar 02 05:02:27 i thought hildon was opensourced Mar 02 05:02:34 (the toolkit) Mar 02 05:02:46 not hildon-home Mar 02 05:02:47 well, specifically the code needed for the phone dialer... Mar 02 05:03:27 though did someone finally reverse engineer that so you could make calls on n900-android? Mar 02 05:18:05 anything you really like about your n900 that you didn't expect to like, eccerr0r? Mar 02 05:19:26 it's about as I expected it to be when I decided to get one. Mar 02 05:19:49 I'm thinking about getting a second one, just to mess around with Mar 02 05:20:25 tempted to do so too, just to figure out how to do the surgery and not have to worry about breaking this working one Mar 02 05:22:04 how much did you pay, zaerc and eccerr0r? Mar 02 05:22:16 i paid $195 for a new one Mar 02 05:22:34 cheapest off ebay... Mar 02 05:22:41 used or new? Mar 02 05:22:48 last year, about 180 euros for a second hand one Mar 02 05:23:05 now I see them going for about 75 euros Mar 02 05:23:35 (mine was as good as new) Mar 02 05:23:36 they say to be wary about ones marked as "new" but I think the one I got is close enough, seems very close to "new" Mar 02 05:24:35 the charger however was obviously not new, obvious scratches, etc., but the n900 was pristine Mar 02 05:26:29 wahey! my newly setup SDK works Mar 02 05:26:35 actually if it's from china or hong kong you can be sure it's new Mar 02 05:26:41 they hold on to new products for years there Mar 02 05:26:53 my last phone i bought while travelling in hong kong; it was 2-3 years old also Mar 02 05:26:54 ...Or make a knock-off of it Mar 02 05:26:56 time to update the wiki page a bit... Mar 02 05:27:14 yes, fake products are widespread in mainland china, but not hong kong Mar 02 05:27:33 hong kong is far more technologically advanced and economically stable than europe or the US =) Mar 02 05:27:46 but the charger obviously was not new :\ I can't tell if the phone is a fake or not but if it's fake, it's a very very good fake. I wonder if they faked the bad microusb too :D Mar 02 05:27:48 anyway, it's pretty easy to tell fake products when in china Mar 02 05:27:56 i lived there for a year and saw plenty Mar 02 05:28:00 they're just obviously fake Mar 02 05:28:43 fake ipods, etc Mar 02 05:28:47 they just look fake Mar 02 05:28:51 firmware is not ios, etc. Mar 02 05:28:59 heh Mar 02 05:29:16 but if this was a fake n900, it can run maemo apps directly still :D Mar 02 05:29:21 exactly Mar 02 05:29:22 I've gotten several Nokia N900 chargers; the stamps/case/etc all identical. Guts, however... one had a lot of components, looked genuine, other was made with a handful(no PFC etc), obviously not Nokia Mar 02 05:29:41 interesting, robbiethe1st Mar 02 05:29:48 yes, that kind of fake stuff is very common in china Mar 02 05:29:56 fake ipod chargers, cables, etc Mar 02 05:30:06 That being said... the cheap ones work perfectly well for the N900 Mar 02 05:30:07 but, really, that's where it's being manufactured... so... Mar 02 05:30:15 eh these small power supplies, I have yet to see one with PFC... then again I think European AC10s need to have PFC to be sold in the EU? Mar 02 05:30:16 exactly; they come from the same factory even probably Mar 02 05:30:21 just no name brand Mar 02 05:30:44 * alec_ actually goes to the store for tobacco now Mar 02 05:30:57 the worst small switching PSUs, the worst one I ever saw was a halfwave rectifier and no feedback Mar 02 05:31:00 *OUCH* Mar 02 05:31:21 but most of them are fullwave and have feedback loop... Mar 02 05:31:30 That being said, my N950 can tell the difference. Two chargers: with charger A plugged in, the screen won't respond at all or very occasionally to touch Mar 02 05:31:38 unplugged, or with B, works fine. Mar 02 05:31:53 My brother has the same problem with his N9 Mar 02 05:32:34 currently I have an issue with my ac10c and two ca-101 cables - the ac10c only charges at 400mA, the CA101's charge at 300mA or so max... Mar 02 05:33:06 my ca-101d and this dollar tree microusb cable - both will charge my n900 really fast... but both of them are really hard to plug into the n900 Mar 02 05:33:08 I'm not sure I'd really notice; I leave it plugged in over night Mar 02 05:33:23 thus I have to do the surgery so that I don't pull the microusb out with the plug :( Mar 02 05:33:37 Yeah Mar 02 05:34:16 it would be nice to just carry around the ca101d Mar 02 05:34:21 that is really convenient... Mar 02 05:36:41 i was using battery-eye... the ac10c and the ca101 charging slope are nowhere near the ca101d and the $1 cable... but they're much easier to connect and extract, lessening the risk of damage. Mar 02 05:37:48 (ac10c: takes about 4 hours to charge from flat, ca-101 probably 8 hours. The tight ca101d and $1 cables will charge in 2 hours) Mar 02 05:39:03 What I did was custom-make myself a car charger - $3 switchmode buck converter set to 5v, USB port with middle pins soldered together, and a USB -> micro cable Mar 02 05:39:55 Seems to work nicely Mar 02 05:40:34 i think it's probably the microusb ends Mar 02 05:40:48 ? Mar 02 05:40:53 the loose ones don't charge as fast, might just be worn out Mar 02 05:41:14 the tight ones of course still depend on what they're plugged into - I was using my bench power supply to test Mar 02 05:41:17 Perhaps; remember though that if the two middle pins aren't shorted, it won't charge at more than 400-500ma if ever Mar 02 05:41:59 (well, actually I was testing the two CA101s, CA101D and the $1 cable all with the same PSU Mar 02 05:42:17 hm Mar 02 05:42:42 the AC10C was an estimate by looking at charging numbers. Mar 02 05:42:44 are you sure the middle pins are shorted correctly? I don't quite know your setup? Mar 02 05:43:24 I have a female USB-A that I shorted D+/D- together, and power straight to the bench PSU. So all four cables are used exactly the same during the test Mar 02 05:43:28 Because they have to be connected to each other (d+ to d-) and not connected to ground or power Mar 02 05:43:33 ah Mar 02 05:44:45 the nice thing about the bench PSU is that I get the current reading so I don't have to depend on the bq24150 lying to me or not... Mar 02 05:48:57 robbiethe1st: (screen won't respond) yep, same here Mar 02 05:54:50 eccerr0r: I strongly suggest you use onboard diagnostic means to check what's actually going on, rather than spreading nonsense about bq24150 allegedly lying Mar 02 05:56:21 You may know the hardware more than I do, I don't trust any hardware I'm not familiar with. Mar 02 05:56:46 yeah, we learned about that during err 2 weeks now Mar 02 05:58:13 It's like trusting google doing what they say they're going to do with their data, and do something behind our backs. I'm not going to trust it until I can compare it real numbers Mar 02 05:58:25 it's just not very enlightening to hear you perpetuating same stuff over and over again, not checking the relevant parameters like voltage *at N900 USB* and then stating bq24150 would lie Mar 02 05:59:29 and tbh your approach to claim that hw lies until you tested it shows more about your testing skills than about hw Mar 02 05:59:31 I cannot measure the voltage at the N900 USB, and there apparently is no software that will do it, I don't see bq27200.sh writing it, I don't see charge21.sh writing it... Mar 02 06:00:11 I don't see you bothering to learn about it Mar 02 06:00:40 so please stop spreading nonsense as facts here Mar 02 06:00:50 bq24150 is NOT lying Mar 02 06:02:26 and we explained to you several times in loving verbosity here what info you can acquire in which way onboard of N900, D+- short detection being just one of them Mar 02 06:02:37 There's no way for me to know until all the external issues are removed. If the voltage the bq24150 sees on vbus was displayed prominently with available software then that would have cleared up the problem very quickly. Mar 02 06:03:13 and if pigs had wings Mar 02 06:03:27 how would I know that they don't? Mar 02 06:03:45 * DocScrutinizer05 yawns and wanders off Mar 02 06:04:21 Well, do you smell pig sh*t from your roof? Mar 02 06:05:10 they may have wings but it does not imply they can fly either. Mar 02 06:06:51 and if N900 had a plutonium battery you wouldn't need to worry about charging Mar 02 06:07:32 I have to treat the unit as a black box. I don't know why people have such a problem with it especially because I don't even know if I had a "good" unit. Suppose there was a 10 ohm resistor on vbus in my particular unit... would be strange but there's no way for me to know Mar 02 06:07:35 honestly, your contributions are not exactly helpful, and your refusal to learn anything about N900 hw is outright annoying Mar 02 06:08:17 LOOK AT THE SCHEMATICS DUDE! Mar 02 06:09:18 There's fully detailed schematics available Mar 02 06:09:28 if you repeat another 10 times "no way for me to know2 it won't be any less false, but it will qualify you for my ignore list, or worse Mar 02 06:09:35 along with diagrams showing every single pin on each chip etc Mar 02 06:10:53 there is a extremely simple path to probe for parasitary resistance on both USB VBUS and USB GND Mar 02 06:10:56 Is the expectation for everyone to open their unit to verify that the circuit is indeed intact and in good shape? That would have had to be the next step to verify the voltage on vbus. Mar 02 06:11:21 by using an ohm-meter and the open end of usb cable and test points under battery Mar 02 06:12:11 * alec_ knows nothing about electrical engineering Mar 02 06:12:38 and yes, you can even probe the VBUS voltage between the pads under battery, thoug that is admittedly a tad clumsy since battery should be inserted for charging Mar 02 06:13:28 there are datasheets for bq24150 and bq27200 available Mar 02 06:13:49 and now pretty please stop telling us N900 is a blackbox Mar 02 06:13:58 I can't stand it anymore Mar 02 06:16:57 finally finding the service manuals was probably the single most valuable documentation to have... though I'd have to thank google for those... Mar 02 06:17:23 too many bad links around. :( Mar 02 06:17:36 All pray to the all-knowing and all-powerful google! Mar 02 06:17:50 omg Mar 02 06:17:54 knowing they existed was the first thing :\ Mar 02 06:18:10 most service manuals are like top secret... Mar 02 06:18:26 and your googling hasn't shown any pages with an url starting like wiki.maemo.org/... UH? Mar 02 06:18:51 no, I ended up finding them on some other website actually Mar 02 06:19:17 yeah, and your sarcasm detector is also defunct Mar 02 06:19:24 ton of bad links to rapidshare or something which w.m.o pointed to Mar 02 06:20:12 pssst... you could have +asked* here ;-P Mar 02 06:20:20 well now you tell me =p Mar 02 06:21:15 I know of a server maemo.cloud-7.de Mar 02 06:21:35 need to fix all the links, that rapidshare link was annoying Mar 02 06:21:46 saw many many links to that server which was dead. Mar 02 06:22:01 well, not dead but deleted Mar 02 06:22:18 which has a hidden directory docs Mar 02 06:23:23 and guess what you could find there Mar 02 06:24:18 I see stuff like Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf Mar 02 06:24:31 Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0.pdf Mar 02 06:24:43 N900_RX-51_SM_L3_4.pdf Mar 02 06:24:57 bq24150.pdf Mar 02 06:25:28 RE-BOM.txt Mar 02 06:25:42 SMIA95_AF_camera module_APL_090511.doc Mar 02 06:25:52 TWL4030-datasheet__tps65950.pdf Mar 02 06:26:13 arrgh Mar 02 06:26:21 TWL4030__TPS65950 OMAPâ„¢ Power Management and System Companion Device ES 1.0 TRM (Rev. D)__swcu050d.pdf Mar 02 06:26:25 time to swipe a copy of everything there I guess... then the next thing is if there was the board layout gerber... Mar 02 06:26:28 what's the password for the maemo sdk vm? Mar 02 06:26:37 'maemo'? Mar 02 06:26:53 nop Mar 02 06:26:58 rootme? Mar 02 06:27:17 nop Mar 02 06:27:30 i literally don't have enough ram to open a browser tab with it running... Mar 02 06:27:31 I just logged in as maemo/maemo and sudo drops to root w/o pwd Mar 02 06:27:33 * alec_ will use lynx Mar 02 06:27:38 weird Mar 02 06:28:19 ahh Mar 02 06:28:21 i know why Mar 02 06:28:29 yep Mar 02 06:28:34 it's because i type in dvorak Mar 02 06:28:42 and the vm is using qwerty Mar 02 06:28:52 ha Mar 02 06:29:47 bwahaha Mar 02 06:40:13 my machine is too slow to run this vm Mar 02 06:40:28 using vmware? qemu? vbox? Mar 02 06:40:36 qemu without kvm = unusable I've found... Mar 02 06:41:06 I'm currently using qemu+kvm on x86_64, it's fast enough... Mar 02 06:41:28 even with kvm, qemu is probably the slowest Mar 02 06:41:57 virtualbox Mar 02 06:42:24 what's the hypervising machine? Mar 02 06:43:10 I did not try vbox but qemu with kvm is still a huge penalty. Without kvm it was unusable (like 1/10 or 1/20th the speed of native) Mar 02 06:43:13 i allocated less ram, seems to do the trick Mar 02 06:43:24 not sure what hypervising machine is Mar 02 06:43:27 ah it was swapping... Mar 02 06:43:29 yeah Mar 02 06:43:45 or rather the hypervisor was swapping... Mar 02 06:44:08 ok Mar 02 06:44:09 I was running with kvm with 128MB VM memory. the VM was swapping and I couldn't tell...it was running like a dog tooo Mar 02 06:44:44 512M seems to work ok, not sure what's the recommended vm size Mar 02 08:13:08 kvm is fast Mar 02 08:39:20 only thing that sucks in my KVM is the graca-emu Mar 02 08:39:26 mouse jerky Mar 02 08:44:15 ok Mar 02 08:44:23 i'm in scratchbox on the sdk vm Mar 02 08:44:29 i'm asked to set up a target Mar 02 08:44:38 i want the target to be armel Mar 02 08:44:45 but there's two different options Mar 02 08:44:53 er, three Mar 02 08:45:25 cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 Mar 02 08:45:29 cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486 Mar 02 08:45:34 and host-gcc Mar 02 08:45:39 i guess the first one is the one i want? Mar 02 08:45:44 why does it even give me a choice? Mar 02 08:46:06 i mean, i already chose armel Mar 02 08:46:45 you can build for running the stuff inside scatchbox Mar 02 08:46:58 cool wirtual N900 Mar 02 08:47:04 virtual* Mar 02 08:47:32 alas no cellular modem ;-) Mar 02 08:47:44 for that purpose you want target x86 Mar 02 08:47:56 i486 rather Mar 02 08:48:09 yeah Mar 02 08:48:14 i want to build for my phone Mar 02 08:48:20 btw seems you should update Mar 02 08:48:45 ok Mar 02 08:48:50 update sandbox? Mar 02 08:48:51 2007 feels a tad aged Mar 02 08:49:01 scratchbox, yeah Mar 02 08:49:24 ah Mar 02 08:49:28 scratchbox is python Mar 02 08:49:30 who would have known... Mar 02 08:49:31 and the maemo stuff inside scratchbox Mar 02 08:49:34 yes Mar 02 08:49:36 ok Mar 02 08:49:38 hmm Mar 02 08:49:43 well, scratchbox website is dead... Mar 02 08:50:47 dunno if we already have something on skeiron Mar 02 08:51:51 DocScrutinizer05: skeiron.org/scratchbox Mar 02 09:26:38 i see Mar 02 09:26:51 well, that link has x86_64 packages, thedead1440 Mar 02 09:27:03 so probably easiest to just do it on my machine, and not vm, right? Mar 02 10:09:34 alec__: scratchbox is a pain in the ass Mar 02 10:32:11 freemangordon, ping Mar 02 10:43:11 ShadowJK, freemangordon, I remember you testing some sd card with very interesting random write performance in january or so. unfortunately I couldn't find it on irc logs. what card was that? Mar 02 10:45:17 freemangordon uses samsung microsdhc pro 64g Mar 02 10:45:37 I benchmarked a a-data ultra high speed 16g card Mar 02 10:46:01 Also, sandisk extreme pro microsdhc isn't too bad Mar 02 10:46:20 * ShadowJK currently benchmarking a samsung microsdhc pro 32g Mar 02 10:46:43 do we have an overview in wiki or something? Mar 02 10:48:22 not really Mar 02 10:49:00 which one would you personnally recommend? the a-data? Mar 02 10:49:03 The more i test stuff the more I become convinced the available methods aren't suited for the task :) Mar 02 10:49:36 I'm not sure.. haven't tried it in N900.. using the sandisk there Mar 02 10:50:55 Isn't it that vendors just are "cheating" their way through? moving out logic into filesystems (like wear-levelling and stuff) and giving us plain simple storage chips would make life easier Mar 02 10:51:18 ya Mar 02 10:52:14 Although, f2fs looks interesting, though you need to profile your card first for best results, and only the good cards will run nicely on f2fs Mar 02 10:52:31 i'll have a look at that Mar 02 10:52:37 (where "nicely" is in a totally different ballpark than ext3/ext4/btrfs) Mar 02 10:54:51 Also, the physical structure of flash these days is becoming a major headache Mar 02 10:55:20 you're talking about the raid-like clustering of the chips? Mar 02 10:55:37 these days you no longer hope for SLC flash, you hope for MLC.. most is TLC though Mar 02 10:56:24 so you have a block size of 12M and smallest writable unit of 36k or similarily fruity sizes Mar 02 10:56:39 that dont fit well with how operating systems work :) Mar 02 10:57:02 i thought SLC was better Mar 02 10:57:25 kerio; i can feel it already. how often do you use it? is there anything better? Mar 02 10:57:43 alec__: i just use the ubuntu vm Mar 02 10:57:48 ok Mar 02 10:58:05 aren't the compilers pretty out of date on the ubuntu vm, kerio? Mar 02 10:58:43 there's freemangordon's gcc4.7-linaro setup Mar 02 10:59:04 kerio; yeah of course, i just mean nobody uses it anymore Mar 02 10:59:16 mlc is the new slc, and tlc is the new mlc ;) Mar 02 10:59:29 ah, where can i get that setup? Mar 02 10:59:35 is that also a vm? Mar 02 10:59:55 alec__: there's instructions on wiki, they assume you already have the standard scratchbox setup Mar 02 11:00:25 ShadowJK: the problem with SDs is that the controller is *not* good enough to present a perfect block device with good performance Mar 02 11:01:16 Also it's getting increasingly difficult to even theoretically transform the flash into good block device Mar 02 11:01:35 if only there was some kind of "raw" mode where you can access the underlying flash as a mtd... Mar 02 11:02:23 ShadowJK: ssds have good controllers Mar 02 11:02:31 SSDs have an advantage in that they can store power, and keep a ram buffer to deal with OS's power-of-two transfers and the flash's power-of-three struxture Mar 02 11:02:53 also an advantage in space Mar 02 11:03:23 and i mean physical space for the circuitry Mar 02 11:03:34 right Mar 02 11:08:00 ShadowJK, can you tell me something about reader limitations? I've just built an sd storage device based on an old iaudio mp3 player using an sd card zif board. are max. supported sd card sizes depending on reader controller? Mar 02 11:08:39 generally no Mar 02 11:08:44 if it does 4g cards it will do 64g, I'd think? Mar 02 11:08:52 that's what i'd assume Mar 02 11:08:58 almost all SD card controllers are 'software, Mar 02 11:09:14 i've got a few usb card readers that don't do sdhc Mar 02 11:09:16 think of them more like network cards that talk to the SD Mar 02 11:09:41 this is ones built into microcontrollers or processors Mar 02 11:10:05 handling large capacities can generally be done with a software upgrade Mar 02 11:10:46 if it's got an embedded micro that handles the filesystem, this differs Mar 02 11:17:13 kerio: actually it's zeq's setup ;) Mar 02 11:17:25 gcc4.7 linaro ;) Mar 02 11:17:39 just put my lumia 900 up for sale on ebay Mar 02 11:17:45 k Mar 02 11:17:47 hope someone buys it for $250 Mar 02 11:18:01 that would really make my week :) Mar 02 11:38:58 man, it's pretty disturbing how even when using swap on uSD, fennec makes optfs 50% busy Mar 02 11:40:05 ShadowJK: wait for qwazix to be ready with embedlite UI and use it instead of fennec Mar 02 11:40:38 or disable disk cache Mar 02 11:41:26 I really need to update those toolchains... Mar 02 11:41:30 My first suspect would've been history db actually, heh Mar 02 11:43:05 ShadowJK: open about:config, disable disk cache and make memory cache 20-40MB Mar 02 11:43:18 My laptop died a few weeks back, I should be getting a new faster one on Monday, should make it a little easier to get things done. Mar 02 11:43:55 zeq1: I tried to build newer gcc for SB, almost succesfuly :) Mar 02 11:44:48 freemangordon: did you automate it? Mar 02 11:44:54 linker (in SB) was spitting some errors, I guess I 've messed something in binutils build Mar 02 11:44:56 proper sb integration? Mar 02 11:44:57 zeq1: no Mar 02 11:45:27 I lack the knowledge/time and will to do it :) Mar 02 11:45:45 s///,/ Mar 02 11:46:00 yeah, it's not a straightforward as it should be Mar 02 11:46:34 some strange quirks in the various toolchain build systems Mar 02 11:47:17 My new laptop should make it pretty quick to build :) Mar 02 11:47:34 zeq1: btw are you aware of anything in newer 4.7 versions that makes the exercise worth? Mar 02 11:47:48 i7-3840QM 8GiB Mar 02 11:47:57 nice :) Mar 02 11:48:10 lots of bug fixes, there's also 4.8 coming up Mar 02 11:49:08 zeq1: well, sure there are bug fixes, but is there anything besides that? improved vectorizer or something? Mar 02 11:49:17 4.8 is a bit of another jump, but ther's been lots of ARM improvments Mar 02 11:49:36 I looked at the change logs some time ago and see nothing interesting Mar 02 11:49:50 I'll have to look a the changelog/list archives Mar 02 11:50:18 I've not been following developments as I usually do Mar 02 11:50:29 been taking a break Mar 02 11:50:52 I took too many things on at once Mar 02 11:51:45 Pali: ping Mar 02 11:51:56 freemangordon: pong Mar 02 11:52:14 Pali: this is going political, what now? (errata patch) Mar 02 11:53:06 just write what you know Mar 02 11:53:42 Pali: sure I will. But I bet the guy with the last mail is ex-nokian ;) Mar 02 11:53:54 yes, you are right Mar 02 11:54:06 he alredy contributed to 0xFFFF :-) Mar 02 11:54:10 hehe Mar 02 11:54:53 Pali: ok, I'll write an answer when I am woken up enough Mar 02 11:55:01 ok Mar 02 11:56:21 heh yeh, disabled disk cache and still 50% busy on optfs :) Mar 02 11:56:39 ShadowJK: I guess you need to delete it by hand Mar 02 11:56:48 disk cache that is Mar 02 11:57:16 it is in /home/user/mozilla/fennec/(something_CACHE) Mar 02 11:57:24 *.mozilla Mar 02 11:58:06 zeq1: what I see in newer gccs is focus on ARM64 Mar 02 11:58:22 unless I am reading the changelog wrong Mar 02 11:58:33 *wrongly Mar 02 11:59:05 there's been a *lot* of ARM64 commits because it's the new arch Mar 02 11:59:08 I see nothing of benefit for n900 Mar 02 12:00:37 I understand that there's been significant improvements to code generation for other recent ARM cores, although admittedly that's from reading Phoronix ;) Mar 02 12:01:34 well, I don't see a way cortex-a8 to fall in the "other rercent" category :D Mar 02 12:01:41 *recent Mar 02 12:02:12 that's what benchmarks are for :P Mar 02 12:02:22 heh Mar 02 12:02:41 heh, cache dir not changing at all, still high ioload :) Mar 02 12:02:41 It'll be a good way to test my new laptop :) Mar 02 12:02:56 freemangordon, what was the card you've been testing lately with exceptionally good random write times? Mar 02 12:03:23 samsung pro 64GB IIRC Mar 02 12:04:38 thx Mar 02 12:04:55 lemme try to find it over the inet Mar 02 12:05:43 wirr: http://i.imgur.com/xixiil.jpg Mar 02 12:06:14 wirr: keep in mind it is not exactly cheap :D:D:D Mar 02 12:07:01 I bought mine for ~80 euros Mar 02 12:11:12 ShadowJK: well, I am out of ideas then :(. It could be something with sqlite commits, but that needs code change to disable disk flushes Mar 02 12:11:50 ShadowJK: which fennec is that? Mar 02 12:12:27 -thumb, I hope :) Mar 02 12:13:02 17.0a1-maemo-thumb0 Mar 02 12:14:00 ShadowJK: did you try to remove the whole fennec directory? how big is your "places" DB? Mar 02 12:14:55 1.1M Mar 02 12:15:45 no idea then :) Mar 02 12:16:06 * ShadowJK blames sqlite Mar 02 12:21:05 weird, there's significant load still after moving .mozilla/fennec away (and symlinking) Mar 02 13:02:28 freemangordon, thanks for the link Mar 02 13:24:09 2*2TB ordered Mar 02 13:25:22 DocScrutinizer05: great! Mar 02 14:30:15 hi Mar 02 14:38:16 hi! Mar 02 14:38:19 and bye! Mar 02 18:23:05 Hi guys, i tried to reflash my device some time ago, and did change something in my drivers... libusb or what it was... Now when i connect my 900 to my PC it tells me my handset is connected to PC in a wrong mode Mar 02 18:26:37 have you tried reinstalling the packages you messed with? Mar 02 18:39:57 The problem i've faced - i forgot the drivers i changed :) Mar 02 18:40:16 What do i have to change in USB drivers to be able to flash device ? Mar 02 18:40:23 Any non-standard libusb ? Mar 02 18:40:30 Or mobile phone drivers ? Mar 02 18:43:39 I have no idea tbh, I've never been up that creek without a paddle Mar 02 18:46:04 can you still login over wifi? Mar 02 18:47:38 Zaerc: To the headset ? Yea Mar 02 18:47:59 It's fully working, but i can't use PCSuite for sync Mar 02 18:49:48 and you can't reflash? Mar 02 18:56:01 I hope i can... But i want to sync my data before :) Mar 02 18:56:11 I have some new contacts in Mar 02 18:56:19 And i'd like to save em to my PC before Mar 02 18:56:39 maybe export them and copy the file over with scp? Mar 02 18:56:59 Hm... How can i export ? Mar 02 18:57:21 somwhere in the UI I think Mar 02 18:57:27 :( Mar 02 18:57:36 create backup Mar 02 18:57:46 and then copy backup file Mar 02 18:58:32 Also , i did install many applications, any idea how can i extract the list of ? Mar 02 18:58:54 dpkg -l Mar 02 18:59:11 that would have been my suggestion too Mar 02 18:59:40 dpkg --get-selections Mar 02 19:00:12 this will print packages in better parseable format Mar 02 19:01:03 ok Mar 02 19:01:05 let me handle it Mar 02 19:08:22 also backup via backup application can backup and restore all intalled applications Mar 02 19:15:17 I found that all of my manually installed apps, are in /home/opt Mar 02 19:16:22 The trouble is that i installed some apps from testing,devel repos Mar 02 19:19:23 so... apple's Lightning digital AV adapter has the same amount of ram as the n900 Mar 02 19:21:56 let me repeat that Mar 02 19:21:59 XATRIX: I guess your problem is with PCsuite-mode vs mass-storage-mode. Mar 02 19:22:09 the adapter to connect the iphone 5 to a tv has the same amount of ram the n900 has Mar 02 19:22:41 so what. kerio? Mar 02 19:22:49 ram is cheap today Mar 02 19:22:50 DocScrutinizer05: we're in the future Mar 02 19:23:07 DocScrutinizer05, hm... but.. I choose PC-Suite mode while it pops up a dialog Mar 02 19:23:38 then it's quite strange why you got those problems. Maybe the culprit is your PC? Mar 02 19:24:18 nope Mar 02 19:24:36 i remember i couldn't connect handset in proper mode, before the last reflash Mar 02 19:25:06 somewhere i found docs, they advised me to download some extra usb drivers for win7 and after , i was able to flash it Mar 02 19:25:25 my maemo-flasher was unable to reflash it before i changed drivers Mar 02 19:25:38 yes, exactly. USB drivers for *WIN7* Mar 02 19:26:10 flashing on windows is a crapshoot, aiui Mar 02 19:26:54 sorry, no windows here. But it's a generally known problem also for linux that PCsuite with cdc_phonet driver conflicts with flashing Mar 02 19:27:35 why it is no windows here ? Mar 02 19:27:51 so probably whatever you did to make flashing under windows work might also have killed PCsuite mode en passant Mar 02 19:27:52 i'm using linux everyday, but never flash something with linux Mar 02 19:29:00 why no windows here??? because I didn't feel like wasting money and/or time for such a crap. My PC is happy without any windows running on it. Me as well Mar 02 19:30:34 i've got plenty of windows open right now Mar 02 19:30:36 irc Mar 02 19:30:38 two terminals Mar 02 19:30:39 two IM Mar 02 19:30:44 and firefox Mar 02 19:31:32 Sorry, simply i have two reasons to have windows... I have a GF, and i play :) Mar 02 19:31:41 cool story bro Mar 02 19:31:43 And who said i paid it ? :) Mar 02 19:32:06 did you just admit to what is at the very least a civil liability on a public channel Mar 02 19:32:14 you take pride on stealing? ;| Mar 02 19:32:14 with public logs Mar 02 19:33:38 Em...sorry i didn't get it. My english is not so good ? What do you mean ? Mar 02 19:33:44 I paid the M$ tax on my notebooks. Mar 02 19:34:06 ummm... stealing isn't the same as not paying a license fee Mar 02 19:34:23 he might have got it "free" when buying a computer? Mar 02 19:34:26 there is a subtle difference Mar 02 19:34:58 ugh, 30min and wikiwide didn't thank yet on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1326428#post1326428 - I'm worried ;-D Mar 02 19:35:10 and I can't agree with Zaerc Mar 02 19:35:10 i'll thank you! Mar 02 19:36:05 stealing is the taking of a physical object Mar 02 19:36:16 as a sw-developer I think there's absolutely no difference between stealing and running a cracked or not properly licenced software Mar 02 19:36:21 making a copy and not paying for it is something else Mar 02 19:36:47 your opinion has no weight in the matter Mar 02 19:36:52 yeah, stealing and copying a number is different Mar 02 19:36:53 maybe in your language and jurisdiction Mar 02 19:37:09 it's the same in english Mar 02 19:37:11 stealing is unlawful acquisition of *material goods* Mar 02 19:37:24 where I live it's both the pretty same § in laws and same crime Mar 02 19:37:52 that's completely irrelevant Mar 02 19:37:54 When making fake copies of money, is that stealing or counterfeiting? Mar 02 19:38:10 copying and stealing are two different things Mar 02 19:38:40 eccerr0r: the problem when counterfeiting money isn't the copyright violation Mar 02 19:39:05 and yeah the law differentiates between taking a picture of a painting, and stealing that painting Mar 02 19:39:08 kerio: maybe in your language. Here we also call it stealing when somebody is breaking into an office and taking photographs of a secret data Mar 02 19:39:17 that's spionage Mar 02 19:39:17 there is sort of a law against copying money too... Mar 02 19:39:26 you can even steal ideas here Mar 02 19:39:38 and... hm, is the act of taking photographs illegal, or is it the breaking&entering that's illegal there? Mar 02 19:39:58 spionge == the act of stealing secret information Mar 02 19:40:13 no, it's the act of acquiring secret information Mar 02 19:40:17 you can't steal information, remember Mar 02 19:40:36 tbh I don't give a shit Mar 02 19:40:52 well I suppose you could if you'd remove the physical medium Mar 02 19:40:55 if i give you my apple and you give me your apple we both only have an apple, but if i tell you my idea and you tell me your idea we both have two ideas Mar 02 19:41:08 neither XATRIX not Zaerc comments are much appreciated Mar 02 19:41:08 except if the idea was DocScrutinizer05's, in which case he doesn't have that idea anymore because you stole it Mar 02 19:41:09 too much gray area here. Mar 02 19:41:21 for some reason Mar 02 19:42:01 DocScrutinizer05: What ? I didn't say a word here for now Mar 02 19:42:04 DocScrutinizer05: by you maybe Mar 02 19:42:07 and again, maybe in your language Mar 02 19:42:33 Zaerc: no, by freenode Mar 02 19:42:44 DocScrutinizer05: i'm sorry, but if german can't distinguish between the act of stealing a physical object and the act of unlawfully copying information, then it's a crappy language Mar 02 19:42:44 DocScrutinizer05: says who? Mar 02 19:42:50 and for sure by maemo Mar 02 19:43:18 kerio: so what. Yours sounds idiotic Mar 02 19:43:23 Zaerc: so now you're the ruler of both freenode and maemo? Mar 02 19:43:36 kerio: stop talking to yourself! Mar 02 19:44:06 Zaerc: fwiw freenode policy is fairly clear on this Mar 02 19:44:39 that you can't discuss the difference between stealing and copying? Mar 02 19:44:48 no, that's allowed Mar 02 19:45:01 then how am I violating policy? Mar 02 19:45:25 i think that encouraging illegal behaviour is against freenode policy Mar 02 19:45:35 ...although i'm not entirely sure about that Mar 02 19:45:54 so now suddenly I'm encouraging illegal behavior? Mar 02 19:46:31 because I don't agree with the moronic copying==stealing mantra? Mar 02 19:47:10 copying=illegal, stealing is illegal, therefore copying=stealing. Mar 02 19:47:41 if copying were illegal, everyone in the open-source movement would be a criminal Mar 02 19:47:47 I don't know what point I was trying to make there actually Mar 02 19:48:01 eccerr0r: your lack of understanding of logic, maybe :P Mar 02 19:48:31 violating copyrights is not the same as copying Mar 02 19:48:55 Zaerc: pretty much everyone agrees with you, it's just a boring conversation Mar 02 19:49:11 I agree Mar 02 19:49:33 I'm just appaled at the narrowmindedness displayed here Mar 02 19:51:05 google for "Datendiebstahl" Mar 02 19:51:48 German laws don't really consider unlawful copying any different than taking away physical goods Mar 02 19:52:24 neither does German language, based on jurisdiction. Since it's diebstahl it's called diebstahl Mar 02 19:53:27 In our jurisdiction you don't need to remove something physical from a victim's property to do an act of stealing Mar 02 19:54:44 as already mentioned we know the semantic concept of "stealing ideas" here since long Mar 02 19:55:43 this doesn't imply we would all think the victim lost the idea and can't remember anymore Mar 02 19:55:54 yeah, the whole concept of stealing ideas is fucked up Mar 02 19:57:41 what the fuck has everyone been smoking these days Mar 02 19:58:37 Diebostahl der; -(e)s, Diebost?hole; das verbotene Nehmen (Stehlen) von Dingen, die anderen geh?ren Mar 02 19:58:50 according to http://de.thefreedictionary.com/diebstahl Mar 02 19:59:17 so you may want to get in touch with the people making dictionaries Mar 02 19:59:28 no i won't Mar 02 19:59:59 you may want to get in touch with reality and follow my suggestion to google for Datendiebstahl Mar 02 19:59:59 "the forbidden act of taking things" Mar 02 20:00:04 Seems pretty clear to me. Mar 02 20:00:58 But then again, Diebstahl also means robbery and whatnot, no? Same as in Dutch, diefstal. Mar 02 20:01:02 teotwaki: both "taking" and "things" is a bit ambiguous, when talking about digital things Mar 02 20:01:10 s/is/are/ Mar 02 20:01:11 kerio meant: teotwaki: both "taking" and "things" are a bit ambiguous, when talking about digital things Mar 02 20:01:15 teotwaki: indeed, taking possession of something only implies that the object had to remove on ots original location when *you* imply that Mar 02 20:01:31 kerio: no, it's not Mar 02 20:02:08 the reality is that copying and stealing are two different concepts Mar 02 20:02:09 well, I'm with kerio on this one: Copying a file doesn't make you lose your copy. Mar 02 20:02:11 it's a fscking number, you can't steal a number Mar 02 20:02:33 Zaerc: nobody talked about copying Mar 02 20:02:33 Basically, stealing means you prevent someone from enjoying their ownership. That doesn't happen with digital files. Mar 02 20:02:51 if you can't see that because you're blinded by language and legislation... Mar 02 20:03:03 kerio: send me your /etc/hosts file. Are you now unable to ping localhost? Mar 02 20:03:04 DocScrutinizer05: that's all I've been talking about Mar 02 20:03:31 teotwaki: how's that relevant Mar 02 20:03:52 Well, people who say copying files is illegal should realise they do so all the time. Mar 02 20:04:04 as quoted above in german language the definition of stealing is "illegal taking of possession of something" Mar 02 20:04:17 NOT "removing something somewhere illegaly" Mar 02 20:04:33 actually, no Mar 02 20:04:36 the german law is not the highest authority here Mar 02 20:04:49 for me it is Mar 02 20:05:05 and that's obviosly your problem Mar 02 20:05:06 it clearly says, in the thingie above: "illegally taking something" Mar 02 20:05:16 and I don't care about your highest authority since we never discussed that Mar 02 20:05:33 we're talking concept, not legislation Mar 02 20:06:00 The way I interpret "taking" is "stripping ownership away from the previous owner". Mar 02 20:06:10 It has nothing to do with me *taking* ownership. Mar 02 20:06:22 It's about what you deny the person who used to own it. Mar 02 20:06:32 you can use the Holy Bible or Manson for your highest authority, we however discussed German law and more originally why it's deprecated to encourage stealing sowftware here in this channel Mar 02 20:06:50 no, your discussing german law Mar 02 20:06:58 Except that again, with digital files, you don't deny anyone using said file. Mar 02 20:07:09 ie: They didn't lose ownership. Mar 02 20:07:09 we were discussing wether copying and stealing are the same Mar 02 20:07:10 that's irrelevant Mar 02 20:07:33 YOU discussed that Mar 02 20:07:47 that's how the discussion got started Mar 02 20:07:57 the only one interested in german law is you Mar 02 20:08:08 Zaerc: you're not helping. Mar 02 20:08:43 no, the discussion started like [2013-03-02 20:32:06] did you just admit to what is at the very least a civil liability on a public channel Mar 02 20:08:57 [2013-03-02 20:32:14] you take pride on stealing? ;| Mar 02 20:09:18 and more originally with [2013-03-02 20:31:43] And who said i paid it ? :) Mar 02 20:09:22 indeed, I objected to the word stealing Mar 02 20:09:33 nobody mentioned german law Mar 02 20:10:34 meh, you're so extremely boring me with your sophism Mar 02 20:10:44 lol Mar 02 20:10:49 DocScrutinizer05: then play with me, unless you find me boring as well? Mar 02 20:11:47 kerio: come out and play. Mar 02 20:12:41 but we agree on everything :( Mar 02 20:12:51 us two? Mar 02 20:12:56 or everyone in the channel? Mar 02 20:13:00 us two Mar 02 20:13:09 I can play the devil's advocate, I don't care. Mar 02 20:13:14 Here, I'll take my mom's position. Mar 02 20:13:19 >sophism Mar 02 20:13:20 (that sounds wrong) Mar 02 20:13:44 you can always disagree on agreeing about everything, just for the sake of it ;) Mar 02 20:14:00 as an old sage once said, "meh, you're so extremely boring me with your sophism" Mar 02 20:14:51 lol? Mar 02 20:15:17 "I make 10-20k a year from royalties, yet I refuse to pay for adobe lightroom. People who steal my music should be sued. I sued a school that performed a concert of mine, but didn't pay royalties. Help. There's a virus on my mac. l1ghtr00m.h4x with a skull on it on my desktop? That's nothing." Mar 02 20:17:53 Or a pretty big role model to me: "Piracy is bad. You may want that nice Ferrari, but you wouldn't just go out and steal it, would you? Just because you can't afford it isn't an excuse to steal a CD. Yeah, there's my stack of music edition software, go ahead and load it up on your mac." Mar 02 20:19:12 Oh fuck it, I can't defend those positions. They're moronic and outdated. Who the fuck am I kidding. I develop software for a living, and I refuse to use the word piracy. Mar 02 20:20:28 DocScrutinizer05: you're no fun. Mar 02 20:21:07 teotwaki: fwiw, "music producers steal software all the time so piracy should not be a thing" isn't a valid argument Mar 02 20:21:48 kerio: you're being obtuse if you believe that's my argument. Mar 02 20:22:14 My argument is that "piracy" is such a deluded concept, so ass backwards that not even the people who profit from it get it. Mar 02 20:22:21 oh, indeed Mar 02 20:24:22 kerio & DocScrutinizer05 & Zaerc: http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod.html Mar 02 20:25:50 anyway Mar 02 20:25:59 off to steal some napkins at McDonalds. Mar 02 20:26:02 thanks, sounds like fun Mar 02 20:26:25 teotwaki: stay safe, copy them instead ;) Mar 02 20:34:06 Zaerc: actually the start point is >>[2013-03-02 20:34:06] ummm... stealing isn't the same as not paying a license fee<< which I disagreed. And none of my arguments why I did been proven incorrect by anybody Mar 02 20:34:56 DocScrutinizer05: fascinating Mar 02 20:35:13 maybe you just stated the obvious and meant "it has different number and set of characters in it" or sth Mar 02 20:36:16 while I thought you implied that the act of piracy should be considered different than that of stealing Mar 02 20:36:35 it bloody well should Mar 02 20:37:11 and it bloody well isn't - at least where I live, and in this channel Mar 02 20:37:32 i didn't know german law applied in this channel Mar 02 20:37:35 freenode is uk-based Mar 02 20:38:22 kerio: so what? did anybody suggest that? Mar 02 20:38:33 DocScrutinizer05: you just did Mar 02 20:38:38 bullshit Mar 02 20:38:45 yeah, that's what i got from your message Mar 02 20:40:01 all i stated is that where I live piracy is considered same as stealing, and same applies for this channel, when it comes to freenode rules about encouraging unlawful behaviour Mar 02 20:40:19 now there's your bullshit Mar 02 20:40:34 this doesn't imply in any way that freenode was related to german laws in any way Mar 02 20:41:10 nobody here is encouraging unlawful behavior by disagreeing with you Mar 02 20:41:27 nobody here is thinking your assumptions make any sense Mar 02 20:41:50 DocScrutinizer05: so now you know exactly what everyone here thinks? Mar 02 20:41:52 and vanilla pudding isn't a burger Mar 02 20:43:23 please speak for yourself, and not the whole channel Mar 02 20:43:45 unless they have appointed you as their spokesperson of course Mar 02 20:45:11 Zaerc: sorry you're again suffering a misconception. I speak for the chan as in "i'm moderator of this chan" Mar 02 20:45:46 sounds like you don't understand the concept of moderation to me Mar 02 20:45:49 and now I definitely am bored by this topic and will not go discuss it with you any further Mar 02 20:46:00 then stop bringing it up Mar 02 20:56:16 if i have the ubuntu scratchbox vm, should/can i dist-upgrade it to 12.10? Mar 02 20:56:27 i mean, update-manager prompts me to upgrade Mar 02 20:56:41 but that won't break anything in scratchbox will it? and it's a good idea generally right? Mar 02 20:56:59 have newer libraries, repos, etc? Mar 02 20:59:10 I'll bring it up next time I read a statement that sounds to me as if somebody was apologizing piracy and encouraging it, in this chan. My reaction will be less verbose then Mar 02 20:59:32 DocScrutinizer05: so you're not bored with it then Mar 02 21:00:22 meh Mar 02 21:00:55 alec_: chances are, it'll bork it Mar 02 21:00:59 but meh, it's worth a shot Mar 02 21:01:04 I *am* bored to death with your trolling Mar 02 21:01:08 you still have the image, right? Mar 02 21:01:31 Ok, look, i've created backup: Connection&Calendar,Bookmarks,Settings,Applications. Now i need to copy it out, and try to reflash it Mar 02 21:01:38 Is it right? Mar 02 21:01:51 DocScrutinizer05: nice way to avoid an open discussion Mar 02 21:02:10 stop highlighting me, moron Mar 02 21:02:24 i do have the image Mar 02 21:02:27 i will clone the vm Mar 02 21:02:35 dist-upgrade one, keep the other as-is Mar 02 21:02:38 DocScrutinizer05: namecalling? really? Mar 02 21:02:39 I don't owe you any open discussion Mar 02 21:02:58 the question is, how can i compile the stuff with the antiquated 10.10 setup? any thoughts, kerio Mar 02 21:02:59 ? Mar 02 21:03:24 alec_: I'm having the same problem Mar 02 21:03:28 scratchbox is a separate thing anyway Mar 02 21:03:40 ok Mar 02 21:03:42 and it's maemo fremantle that's antiquated :) Mar 02 21:03:43 Guys, please calm down. And help a novice guy, who like to experiment to solve his problem:) Mar 02 21:04:09 XATRIX: that sounded right, but I can't be sure Mar 02 21:09:27 kerio: is there a good alternative to fremantle for the n900? Mar 02 21:09:34 nope Mar 02 21:09:45 Zaerc: meego ? Mar 02 21:09:50 XATRIX: nope Mar 02 21:09:51 droid4 ? Mar 02 21:10:01 still nope Mar 02 21:10:09 meego only half works, and the battery life is pitiful Mar 02 21:10:19 android only half works either Mar 02 21:10:21 and it's android Mar 02 21:10:23 well those maybe alternatives, but they didn't seem very good to me Mar 02 21:10:36 lol: "and it's android"... indeed... Mar 02 21:10:49 android doesn't appeal to me at all Mar 02 21:10:55 why do you thinks it works half ? android ? Mar 02 21:11:17 afaik no alternative OS on the n900 has working phone calls, for once Mar 02 21:11:42 ( Mar 02 21:11:46 did you test it ? Mar 02 21:11:50 when i try to run scratchbox i get 'unterminated quoted string'. Mar 02 21:11:56 anyone have any clue why? Mar 02 21:12:22 alec_: because there is a " or ' missing somewhere? ;) Mar 02 21:12:56 (sorry I don't know either) Mar 02 21:13:30 XATRIX: i haven't tested android, i did test nemo Mar 02 21:21:40 Where the backup i made is located ? Mar 02 21:21:43 on the handset Mar 02 21:24:47 depends on what you selected as destination Mar 02 21:24:54 card Mar 02 21:25:04 usually it's a good idea Mar 02 21:25:28 then check your uSD, it has a drawer like "backups" or ".backup" or sth Mar 02 21:25:33 /dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 631.0M 1.3G 33% /home Mar 02 21:25:34 ? Mar 02 21:26:32 /dev/mmcblk0p1 27.0G 4.4G 22.6G 16% /home/user/MyDocs Mar 02 21:26:34 /dev/mmcblk1p1 951.6M 348.4M 603.2M 37% /media/mmc1 Mar 02 21:26:35 O_O Mar 02 21:26:50 I have 2G falsh card Mar 02 21:26:56 so i suppose it to be /home Mar 02 21:27:09 no, /home is internal eMMC Mar 02 21:27:21 /media/card/backup Mar 02 21:27:27 err Mar 02 21:27:34 /media/mmc1/backup Mar 02 21:27:47 ok Mar 02 21:28:23 sounds if it is proper location ) Mar 02 21:28:34 if your uSD is a 2GB, then you either partitioned/formatted it incorrectly, or you simply have a second partition eating the remaining 1GB Mar 02 21:28:52 Em..... Mar 02 21:29:03 Why it is not correctly partitioned ? Mar 02 21:29:12 Wait a bit Mar 02 21:29:26 because of /dev/mmcblk1p1 951.6M Mar 02 21:29:41 you're right Mar 02 21:29:59 I suppose there's also a /dev/mmcblk1p2 Mar 02 21:30:05 nope Mar 02 21:30:21 Sounds if it is 1G Mar 02 21:30:27 mhm Mar 02 21:32:15 XATRIX: you have a 1GB flash Mar 02 21:32:21 Yep Mar 02 21:32:31 or, rather, you have a uSD with at least 951.6M Mar 02 21:32:35 and a 951.6M partition Mar 02 21:32:59 What does mean .modest ? Mar 02 21:33:09 mail Mar 02 21:33:12 ok Mar 02 21:33:39 nfc why it creates dirs on uSD Mar 02 21:39:35 do i have to extract my external flash while flashing device ? Mar 02 21:39:42 or i can leave it there? Mar 02 21:40:33 it shouldn't be affected afaik Mar 02 21:41:44 i hope it won't interfer Mar 02 21:42:08 you can always take it out to be on the safe side Mar 02 21:42:22 Ok, now i will start asking some questions , to make it clear for me Mar 02 21:42:52 Some time ago, i was advised by Doc to reflash my device cause i messed up everything Mar 02 21:42:54 removing the back should ensure it's read only Mar 02 21:43:49 Beacause now i have my device tells me my batter dischargin rate is ~3A :) Mar 02 21:44:34 Doc was really angry of this Mar 02 21:44:40 Now i have to fix this crap :) Mar 02 21:45:22 Alright, i'd like to use powerkernel after reflash Mar 02 21:45:44 is it ok ? Also, i'd like to make my device to use as less power consumption as possible Mar 02 21:46:38 powerkernel should be fine I reckon Mar 02 21:46:57 even I moved to pk Mar 02 21:47:18 Alright. It's clear. The second queston. Do i have to install/enable any features to make my battery live longer ? Mar 02 21:47:23 pk is fine. bme-replacement, not yet Mar 02 21:47:41 em.... why not ? Mar 02 21:47:54 and no, pretty please don't install any battery enhancement stuff, it's all nonsense Mar 02 21:47:54 will it provide me correct chargin data ? Mar 02 21:48:23 Yes, i noted it Mar 02 21:48:27 XATRIX: bme replacement is still highly experimental Mar 02 21:48:44 Is it inside the pk ? Mar 02 21:48:48 no Mar 02 21:48:55 Or it shoud be installed outside of ? Mar 02 21:48:59 pk is "clean" Mar 02 21:49:06 though if running pk, "kernel-config load default" in xterminal after boot might reduce poweruse in non-idle mode slightly Mar 02 21:49:39 But yeah, generally a clean install is quite power efficient.. it's what you do after that :) Mar 02 21:50:50 Ok.. But do i have to install bme replacement also ? Mar 02 21:51:11 no, you shall NOT install bme replacement Mar 02 21:51:26 ok Mar 02 21:51:56 bme-replacement works fine, apart for some weirdness in the handling of the LED Mar 02 21:52:01 as long as you have kp52 Mar 02 21:52:06 Also i'd like to ask about BleedingEdge wifi drivers Mar 02 21:52:09 but it's highly experimental Mar 02 21:52:19 I couldn't load it with my currect installation Mar 02 21:52:25 XATRIX: they have problems with power consumption Mar 02 21:52:30 so only use them to do packet injection Mar 02 21:53:01 Hm... i don't crack anything Mar 02 21:53:27 then don't use them Mar 02 21:54:14 Ok, but this thing has a cool panel wifi-toggle :) Mar 02 21:54:18 very handy Mar 02 21:54:24 kerio, btw, are you awarwe how to disable bme replacement (i.e. avoiding device shutdown)? Mar 02 21:54:36 eqauivalent of old'bad' stop bme? Mar 02 21:55:02 interesting question Mar 02 21:55:22 modprobe -r bq24150? Mar 02 21:55:23 Pali, ^ last time I've asked about this, we started to talk about edv1 and making shutdown configurable, and my qauestion got forgotten Mar 02 21:55:36 DocScrutinizer05, not likely, as shutdown is calledd from dsme? Mar 02 21:55:37 try modprobe -r bq27x00_battery Mar 02 21:55:47 bq27 doesngt have anything to do with it Mar 02 21:55:56 * ShadowJK should add a shutdown to his userspace charge31... Mar 02 21:55:57 Estel_: your only bet is to stop hald-addon-bme from doing things Mar 02 21:56:10 dsme doesn't really have to do anything with it Mar 02 21:56:18 rmmod drivers Mar 02 21:56:21 DocScrutinizer05, sorry, just quoting Pali :P Mar 02 21:56:22 ...i reckon that rmmodding bq27x00_battery would just make the phone shutdown Mar 02 21:56:32 kerio, no, it doesnt Mar 02 21:56:35 hald-addon-bme will handle it Mar 02 21:56:37 yay Mar 02 21:56:42 I triwed it zillion times while writing new version of bnf Mar 02 21:56:55 Pali, it will? Mar 02 21:57:07 OK Mar 02 21:57:14 and will wait until kernel provides power supply interface again Mar 02 21:57:33 of course it's just ugly workaround for calibration, 'till version with gconf configurable treeshold arrives :) Mar 02 21:57:43 lol Mar 02 21:57:51 well, afaik hald-addon-bme is detecting conditions to shutdown, and then uses dsme to initiate friendly shutdown Mar 02 21:58:01 DocScrutinizer05, I see Mar 02 21:58:22 Pali, no way ny just "frozing" hald-addon-bme, btw? Mar 02 21:58:39 while it uses kernel modules to acquire data of whether or not to shutdown Mar 02 21:58:53 s/ny/by/ Mar 02 21:58:53 Estel_ meant: Pali, no way by just "frozing" hald-addon-bme, btw? Mar 02 21:59:06 hald-addon-bme trying to read bq27x power_supply values every 30 (?) s Mar 02 21:59:48 and every 60 (?) s checking if bq2415x is loaded Mar 02 22:00:36 and when detect it is loaded it sleep in select/poll for changes Mar 02 22:01:46 Guys, is it possible to make my device to be very responsible while it should detect the idle(when i don't directly use it) state and turn itself to low power-consumption mode ? Mar 02 22:02:16 XATRIX: maemo *always* enters low power mode when not used Mar 02 22:02:36 even for sub-second durations of "idle" Mar 02 22:02:45 hmm Mar 02 22:03:11 In some cases, it can enter low power idle even with screen on Mar 02 22:03:56 XATRIX: it's not like your usual desktop linux that needs hibernate or suspend to save energy Mar 02 22:04:17 scaling_governor ? Mar 02 22:04:23 as long as your background processes are written correctly Mar 02 22:04:29 among others, yes Mar 02 22:04:50 XATRIX: though mostly zero-clock and general smartreflex design Mar 02 22:05:30 XATRIX: the idea is OMAP SoC shutting down every subsystem all the time during idle Mar 02 22:05:33 even CPU Mar 02 22:05:37 but smartreflxex is only possible with pk Mar 02 22:05:40 isn't it ? Mar 02 22:05:57 not necessarily, the governor does something very, very similar Mar 02 22:06:01 smartreflex is more than just hardware CPU clock adjustment Mar 02 22:06:08 never saw my system was shut down completly... Mar 02 22:06:16 every time my cpu is doing something Mar 02 22:06:25 actually maemo doesn't use the CPU clock function of SR Mar 02 22:06:27 the point is that it doesn't need to shut down to make the cpu idle Mar 02 22:06:36 it doesn't even clock-down to 250 at least 10% of a time Mar 02 22:06:45 XATRIX: yeah, you've done something really wrong Mar 02 22:07:00 XATRIX: each time you "look" your system is *actually* doing something Mar 02 22:07:03 ;-P Mar 02 22:07:12 look at power top Mar 02 22:07:17 only way Mar 02 22:07:24 powertop Mar 02 22:07:28 hm Mar 02 22:07:31 it should stay idle for several seconds at a time Mar 02 22:07:40 ~power Mar 02 22:07:41 rumour has it, power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Mar 02 22:07:44 3.5s is tpyoically piowsiblle Mar 02 22:08:18 C4 | 85.4% | 1025.8ms Mar 02 22:08:19 http://fpaste.org/HEFr/ Mar 02 22:08:26 and now i feel disappointed Mar 02 22:08:41 kerio: yep! :) Mar 02 22:08:49 wtf is that shit Mar 02 22:09:41 It's my bme :) Mar 02 22:09:47 screwdup Mar 02 22:09:49 nope Mar 02 22:09:56 no way you're pulling 5A from the battery Mar 02 22:10:13 Wanna connect via ssh ;) Mar 02 22:10:15 ? Mar 02 22:10:19 XATRIX: that looks pretty normal to me Mar 02 22:10:23 (paste) Mar 02 22:10:28 DocScrutinizer05: wat Mar 02 22:10:34 not? Mar 02 22:10:48 -5677mA Mar 02 22:10:52 ooh Mar 02 22:10:59 that's definitely bogus Mar 02 22:11:05 it means it charges up to 5A :) Mar 02 22:11:12 I have charger applied Mar 02 22:11:44 Even my car 65A battery can't charge up with 5A :)))) (joke) Mar 02 22:12:16 meh, you probbaly have bme-replacement or bq27200.ko module loaded Mar 02 22:12:31 don't know :( Mar 02 22:12:35 no module loaded Mar 02 22:12:43 or dunno what else your code you ran to get that output is doing Mar 02 22:12:50 XATRIX: my 8Ah bicycle battery can ;) Mar 02 22:13:11 Zaerc: you're killing it ;) Mar 02 22:13:30 no, it's LiPo, it can handle much more then that Mar 02 22:13:37 XATRIX: add "set +v" at top of that script you run to get http://fpaste.org/HEFr/ Mar 02 22:13:41 what's that script anyway Mar 02 22:13:55 I guess sth from http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Mar 02 22:14:22 em...what should i do ? Mar 02 22:14:58 tell us what "software" you used to get http://fpaste.org/HEFr/ Mar 02 22:15:06 http://fpaste.org/SOGz/ Mar 02 22:15:36 XATRIX: meh Mar 02 22:15:49 I didn't say "use powerstta +v" Mar 02 22:16:07 http://fpaste.org/54VK/ Mar 02 22:16:38 if [[ -e /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/current_now ]] Mar 02 22:16:47 checks if bq27200.ko is loaded Mar 02 22:16:56 and if so, it's using it Mar 02 22:16:59 Nokia-N900:~# lsmod | grep bq27200 Mar 02 22:17:01 Nokia-N900:~# Mar 02 22:17:07 kp51's bq27x00_battery is fubar Mar 02 22:17:08 do "lsmod|grep bq" Mar 02 22:17:22 there's never been such thing as "bq27200.ko" Mar 02 22:17:29 bq27x00_battery 6480 0 Mar 02 22:17:31 power_supply 6916 1 bq27x00_battery Mar 02 22:17:35 see? Mar 02 22:17:39 :( Mar 02 22:18:02 that's even full bme-replacement, as far as kernel is involved Mar 02 22:18:02 if it's not a problem, reflash and don't install shit you don't understand the purpose of Mar 02 22:18:13 you isntalled bme replacement Mar 02 22:18:15 :( Mar 02 22:18:20 DocScrutinizer05: not quite, it's missing bq24150x_charger Mar 02 22:18:24 and rx51_battery Mar 02 22:18:31 mhm Mar 02 22:18:33 nfc Mar 02 22:18:40 me neither \_o_/ Mar 02 22:18:50 XATRIX: wtf bro Mar 02 22:18:51 anyway both modules are suspicious to say the least Mar 02 22:19:22 bq27x00.ko should be blacklisted in normal KP Mar 02 22:19:33 I thought it should give me some extra batter life :( Mar 02 22:19:37 since it borks bme Mar 02 22:19:54 DocScrutinizer05: it's never, ever, ever, ever, ever automatically loaded Mar 02 22:20:04 but it just fucked things up :( Mar 02 22:20:13 XATRIX: I told you NOT to install anything you think might improve your battery life - since it won't Mar 02 22:20:13 you can blacklist a module when there's something that loads modules automatically Mar 02 22:20:45 Yep... But i did it before you actually told me about Mar 02 22:21:02 so you know by now Mar 02 22:21:18 :( Mar 02 22:21:21 and that's also the explanation for your bogus readout of 5A charging Mar 02 22:21:35 and of flawed charging Mar 02 22:21:43 afaik the latest bme replacement packages depend on kp52 Mar 02 22:21:45 s/of/for/ Mar 02 22:21:45 and for a good reason Mar 02 22:21:46 DocScrutinizer05 meant: and for flawed charging Mar 02 22:22:04 kp51's bq27k module reports wrong values Mar 02 22:22:20 It's probably stealing those values illegally. Mar 02 22:22:31 XATRIX: didn't you say you had reflashed? or were about to do? Mar 02 22:22:35 Where can i find an image to flash that doesn't actually eats 8G for partition ? Mar 02 22:22:45 teotwaki: i chuckled Mar 02 22:22:58 I'm going to reflash it tonight... Actually now Mar 02 22:23:10 I'm just getting prepared Mar 02 22:23:20 XATRIX: sorry? 8GB partition?? Mar 02 22:23:42 http://maemo.jacekowski.org/ binary/firmware/ has the fiascos Mar 02 22:23:51 Yea, the default image i can flash cuts over 8G for things Mar 02 22:23:57 So you have 32-8G Mar 02 22:23:58 XATRIX: no it doesn't Mar 02 22:24:11 i'm not entirely sure of what you're smoking Mar 02 22:24:13 but it must be good Mar 02 22:24:20 And there i saw an image with reduced /home or whatever that eats 32-2G Mar 02 22:24:41 that's normal Mar 02 22:25:19 maybe you patched your fiasco image like suggested in Mar 02 22:25:22 ~jrtools Mar 02 22:25:24 jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Mar 02 22:25:28 and forgot about it? Mar 02 22:25:38 Nope.. i didn't Mar 02 22:26:00 then I'd like to second kerio on his question Mar 02 22:26:28 rather statement Mar 02 22:27:47 /dev/mmcblk0p1 28G 16G 12G 58% /home/user/MyDocs Mar 02 22:28:17 /dev/mmcblk0p2 2,0G 846M 1,1G 45% /home Mar 02 22:28:25 what is the most recent one firmware ? Mar 02 22:28:56 PR1.3 aka 36 iirc Mar 02 22:29:23 ~skeiron Mar 02 22:29:25 skeiron is probably the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Mar 02 22:30:05 PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 Mar 02 22:30:33 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 02 22:32:14 md5sum: b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 02 22:32:51 HTH Mar 02 22:34:59 MD5 (combined-pr13.fiasco) = b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 Mar 02 22:34:59 MD5 (vanilla-pr13.fiasco) = 488809ff96a0a05479d692e9f77aeb4f Mar 02 22:36:38 http://privatepaste.com/fbaec5084a Mar 02 22:38:10 flashdat, profit Mar 02 22:38:45 do NOT install "1337 stuff" that promises to improve battery life or device speed Mar 02 22:39:49 XATRIX: since your knowledge you base those assumptions on is obviously not sufficient, regarding how maemo / OMAP works Mar 02 22:40:46 yea :( Mar 02 22:41:09 DocScrutinizer05: that's a partitioning for noobs! Mar 02 22:41:10 http://privatepaste.com/4e9eb3a1f3 Mar 02 22:41:22 maemo pure is really fine, until you start spoiling it with such stuff Mar 02 22:41:48 kerio: that's the partitioning of stock maemo Mar 02 22:42:10 you suppose Nokia's maemo devels were noobs? Mar 02 22:42:16 yep :P Mar 02 22:42:23 ktnx Mar 02 22:42:37 not really noobs, just deeply misguided by the marketing department Mar 02 22:47:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1po23AuXKns#at=49 Mar 02 22:47:23 meego dialer works well\ Mar 02 22:47:27 well, who misguided *you* then, to not even have swap on internal storage? Mar 02 22:48:01 meh, meego dialer Mar 02 22:48:15 how's that relevant? Mar 02 22:49:32 also oh yeah, I see how great and responsive it acts on pressing any button, during first 30s Mar 02 22:52:35 need my Tmobile Sim to show up already so I can cancel att Mar 02 22:52:55 prepaid ftw Mar 02 22:53:31 e7 works great.. i should see about trying to fix my n900 Mar 02 22:53:44 maybe open it and tighten the screws lol Mar 02 22:53:58 no screws inside Mar 02 22:54:01 after shoving a penny between whatever is broken Mar 02 22:54:10 DocScrutinizer05: swap on emmc is a waste of space :P Mar 02 22:54:37 but the e7 is awesome minus no more symbian :( Mar 02 22:54:55 symbian was really becoming awesome when they dropped it Mar 02 22:55:06 then again Mar 02 22:55:09 so was maemo Mar 02 22:55:13 so was meego Mar 02 22:55:23 nokia is foolish lol Mar 02 22:55:40 wonder if their ms phones are dominating the market now Mar 02 22:55:52 no worries, according to this scheme they will stick with winphone forever Mar 02 22:56:06 i know my lumia 900 still doesnt have a 7.8 update Mar 02 22:56:21 after it was supposed to have been released months ago Mar 02 22:56:30 yeah Mar 02 22:56:45 they already paid someone to take symbian for maintenance Mar 02 22:56:54 whatever that means Mar 02 22:57:14 someone should decompile symbian and put it on tpb heh Mar 02 22:57:45 or unlock the e7 so i can put maemo on it :) Mar 02 22:57:52 e7 was built better Mar 02 22:58:12 how can china make better qa products than finland and korea? Mar 02 22:59:18 can't believe I didn't have 1 but 2 break from different countries Mar 02 22:59:23 lol Mar 02 22:59:33 fail Mar 02 23:01:00 there are only a few things that make symbian sucj which would probably take 1 day to fix Mar 02 23:01:15 no statusbar notification for new email Mar 02 23:01:19 no tabbed ssh app Mar 02 23:01:29 and no telepathy :( Mar 02 23:01:41 i loved n900 IM/txting Mar 02 23:01:58 telepathy was absolutely awesome Mar 02 23:03:26 I wonder if the swap speed is equal to memory speed ? Mar 02 23:03:37 It's located also on NAND Mar 02 23:06:14 XATRIX: no. swap is located on eMMC while memory is RAM and located somewhere on the OMAP3430 SoC's PoP chip Mar 02 23:07:21 ARM7 != OMAP ? Mar 02 23:08:13 sorry, your questions are all a bit strange Mar 02 23:08:41 ARM7 is a CPU core basically, while OMAP is a series of SoC built by TI Mar 02 23:09:54 so how to answer queations that sound like Mar 02 23:10:14 Intel-X86 != Acer? Mar 02 23:10:36 Maybe i missunderstand the difference Mar 02 23:11:08 Actually i thought that arm,omap,sparc,x86 are all the different archs Mar 02 23:11:09 OMAP is a SoC that has an ARM CPU core among other things Mar 02 23:11:55 so no, omap is an arm architecture Mar 02 23:12:28 IroN900:~# uname -a Mar 02 23:12:29 Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux Mar 02 23:12:42 armv7l Mar 02 23:12:54 omap1 Mar 02 23:14:01 http://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123 Mar 02 23:15:11 >>The OMAP3430 is the first applications processor in the industry to integrate the ARM® Cortex™-A8 superscalar microprocessor core << Mar 02 23:15:36 Sounds you're right Mar 02 23:21:28 can i actually power my system up without battery in ? Mar 02 23:25:33 also i found a new batter for my device :) KEVA 1700mAh :) Mar 02 23:25:43 yeah right Mar 02 23:26:04 well, vi____ has a 1600mAh one Mar 02 23:26:19 it's new, so it's gonna to have energy as long as hell :) Mar 02 23:26:33 XATRIX: nope, powering up without battery (or other special equipment) isn't possible Mar 02 23:27:00 my acer netbook can be powered up while the batt is out Mar 02 23:30:30 some of my freerunners can be powered up while battery is out Mar 02 23:32:10 hmm Mar 02 23:34:09 the N900 has a bq24150 charger chip. Frerunner has PCF50633 PMU chip Mar 02 23:34:37 dunno what acer is using, but I'm sure it has a more sophisticated power distribution Mar 02 23:37:40 ah . ok Mar 02 23:38:09 is it correct if i do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade/dist-upgrade after i flash it ? Mar 02 23:38:19 NO! Mar 02 23:38:33 apt-get dist-upgrade is absolutely forbidden Mar 02 23:38:41 O_o Mar 02 23:38:42 upgrade also is deprecated Mar 02 23:39:18 maemo has a very special way to handle upgrade packages and dependencies Mar 02 23:39:26 so i don't have to install even any toolchain thigs to ? Mar 02 23:39:44 what for? Mar 02 23:40:06 grep,find,fdisk,cp,mv... ? Mar 02 23:41:45 why the hell would you have to install cp Mar 02 23:42:06 depends, most of them come with busybox already Mar 02 23:42:29 aren't some of those available in the tools repo? Mar 02 23:42:49 find/locate is an own package that is better than the busybox crippled stuff, you can install it, see Mar 02 23:42:52 ~jrtools Mar 02 23:42:53 extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Mar 02 23:44:09 ok, will try to find it out Mar 02 23:44:24 so, as i assume NO apt-get completely ? Mar 02 23:45:18 unless you enjoy reflashing... ;) Mar 02 23:45:34 nope Mar 02 23:47:34 also, do i have to strictly charge my batt to 100% or i can start flashing with >~60-70% ? Mar 02 23:47:45 Or it does measures batt levels during reflash ? Mar 02 23:53:53 why is everyone so obsessed about the battery? Mar 02 23:54:09 I'd like to use it more effeciently Mar 02 23:54:50 0xFFFF fails to find my n900 when I use it from my laptop Mar 02 23:55:05 from my desktop it worked Mar 02 23:55:23 ok...see you tomorrow guys. gotta go now Mar 02 23:55:23 XATRIX: and look at the results ;> Mar 02 23:55:26 sleep well! Mar 02 23:55:27 bye Mar 02 23:58:33 quick question: in the repos what's the difference between fremantle and fremantle-1.3? Mar 02 23:58:57 ATM nothing afaik Mar 02 23:59:42 it got introduced when we had versioning issues with fremantle1.2 Mar 03 00:00:36 hmm' ok. In a post on tmo, it was mentioned that one has hashsum errors and one doesn't in extra-devel, and that seems to be the case. Mar 03 00:01:38 unlikely Mar 03 00:02:05 iirc one is a symlink to the other Mar 03 00:02:59 or, if fremantle was actually a symlink to fremantle1.2, then it's outadted for 1.3 and shouldn't get used Mar 03 00:03:03 well, i was able to install from one and not from the other via apt-get (pastebinit). But a symlink makes sense... **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 03 00:05:19 2013 Mar 03 00:06:14 maybe I installed an old version of pastebinit then? 1.3-2maemo1 is what I have. Mar 03 00:08:16 IroN900:~# apt-cache policy pastebinit Mar 03 00:08:18 pastebinit: Mar 03 00:08:19 Installed: 1.3-2maemo1 Mar 03 00:08:46 I don't think it's from extras though Mar 03 00:27:44 hmm http://maemo.org/packages/view/pastebinit/ Mar 03 00:33:58 It was/is extra-devel that has hashsum errors isn't it? Mar 03 00:48:10 I'm more concerned why merlin1991 doesn't already fix those hashsum errors Mar 03 00:48:33 I'd hate to have to do it myself Mar 03 01:25:53 hi, is there a way to run xbmc on maemo? Mar 03 01:31:17 I have tried under easy-debian, no luck so far Mar 03 01:31:43 :/ Mar 03 01:32:17 I need to do more research into this openGL-ES thingy Mar 03 01:34:10 so it was a bit of an half-assed attempt Mar 03 01:35:36 xbmc is available for ARM, and is already running on the beagleboard (which got tha same hardware?) Mar 03 01:36:14 yeah I think it's possible Mar 03 01:36:15 therefore i expected to find a deb quite easily :( Mar 03 01:36:37 *I* just haven't figured out how yet, others may have Mar 03 02:16:58 hmmm Mar 03 02:17:05 just wondering Mar 03 02:17:36 is there any information on what sets the SDK apart form a regular arm-toolchain? Mar 03 02:20:09 maybe the qemu? Mar 03 02:20:39 maybe scratchbox? Mar 03 02:20:53 define "regular arm toolchain" Mar 03 02:20:58 well I was thinking more along the lines of specially patched libraries and tools and such Mar 03 02:21:43 I mean I can just run an armel system under qemu Mar 03 02:22:00 and then use the build environment there Mar 03 02:22:29 but that won't have all the antiquated versions and patches Mar 03 02:22:45 (am I making any sense?) Mar 03 02:24:22 hmm, maybe if I used the old "lenny" and then added the sdk repos Mar 03 02:30:30 I think there's not much special in every part of the SDK Mar 03 02:31:02 I'll just give it a try for the heck of it Mar 03 02:31:53 and actually some guys have managed to comile/build natively on N900, under an easydeb chroot for sufficient free space in filesystem. Mar 03 02:32:23 also there's madde, which works somewhat different, maybe you want to check this as well Mar 03 02:32:26 I'm on a bit of an adventure to see if I can get a newer version of pulseaudio to build Mar 03 02:32:54 yeah easydeb kicks ass Mar 03 02:33:26 re PA I think others tried that and ran into conflicts Mar 03 02:33:28 I got the raspberry pi image to work under there Mar 03 02:34:17 yeah so far it looks like it will be quite a pain to get it done Mar 03 02:35:13 * Zaerc likes puzzles Mar 03 02:36:12 seems in the end you'll find one part is not matching, for the PA puzzle Mar 03 02:38:52 yeah that is not uncommon, and I figured if it was easy someon would have done it already Mar 03 02:39:09 there are closed blobs plugins for PA, which *might* not work with newer versions of PA Mar 03 02:39:43 ah, that is good to know Mar 03 02:39:57 I wasn't expecting to succeed anyway Mar 03 02:40:12 it's more a bit of an excercize **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 03 02:59:58 2013