**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 06 02:59:58 2013 Mar 06 03:01:17 (no longer be requiring...) see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89378 Mar 06 03:01:29 tim suggested just that Mar 06 03:02:51 well... how about that? Mar 06 03:04:42 truth be told there really isn't much required to run a nfp :) you file a different type of tax sheet at the end of the year Mar 06 03:05:37 As a nonprofit entity that must operate according to bylaws and legal formalities (as well it should in order to comply with certain governing laws), the processes have been less than efficient. Mar 06 03:05:42 which is why i don't understand that part Mar 06 03:06:36 Furthermore, I feel that the Maemo Community Council should be given more responsibility in general operations of the maemo.org ecosystem. Mar 06 03:06:41 uhm.....? Mar 06 03:07:56 DocScrutinizer05: you should ask them to give up their n950s! Mar 06 03:07:57 lol Mar 06 03:09:08 huh? Mar 06 03:09:31 I wish everybody of BoD had already touched a N900 in his life Mar 06 03:09:48 n950. wtf?! Mar 06 03:10:51 heh Mar 06 03:10:57 i want an n950 :( Mar 06 03:11:01 and a working n900 :( Mar 06 03:11:02 anyway, please contribute on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89387, we (council) need feedback from you (community) *urgently* Mar 06 03:11:10 i'm scared to buy one Mar 06 03:12:08 omg Mar 06 03:12:15 my login.. i actually remembered it haha Mar 06 03:13:33 [GENERAL NOTICE] in about 3 weeks our next council term elections will start. WE NEED YOU to paricipate, run for a seat in council, or at VERY LEAST **vote**! Mar 06 03:14:46 we're going to fix karma til then, and prerequisites for voting and for running for a seat in council will be pretty much identical to what they always been Mar 06 03:17:31 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1327156&postcount=8 Mar 06 03:17:36 there you go :) Mar 06 03:17:40 lol Mar 06 03:18:20 brutal honesty is always the best kind Mar 06 03:19:10 speaking of which Mar 06 03:19:34 DocScrutinizer05: apparently debian is able to find its way onto newer devices using an android bootloader and the android kernel Mar 06 03:20:04 my point being.. maybe maemo would be a good choice to see about getting onto other devices :) is that even possible? because without production of n900s maemo is just a white dwarf cooling down Mar 06 03:22:31 this white dwarf will take ages to cool down, as usual with those. and it been borne by a supernova that - by blasing away its outer hulls - created a hockwave that will give birth to new more flourishing systems in the neigbourhood Mar 06 03:23:20 yeah but you need ample material to do so :-P and a white dwarf is not necessarily from supernovae. supernovae usually product neutron stars or black holes because of their mass Mar 06 03:23:32 a white dwarf is usually a smaller yellow star Mar 06 03:23:44 that runs out of material and dies after turning into a red giant Mar 06 03:24:08 and shedding what little it had left off itself because of its loss of mass/gravity and can no longer hold onto itself Mar 06 03:24:11 the red giant is Harmattan, no doubt ;-P Mar 06 03:24:23 then turns into a little white ball which eventually cools down Mar 06 03:24:51 unless another star comes along that it can feed off of and blow up :) Mar 06 03:24:53 ate all planets it ever had, then collapsing Mar 06 03:25:04 heh Mar 06 03:25:17 either way. with the advent of debian being able to be placed on newer model phones Mar 06 03:25:28 maybe the community may want to look at that as a way to get maemo on them Mar 06 03:25:51 instead of eventually running out of fuel (n900s) Mar 06 03:25:54 we always had that option. Though without any decent hw-support, and I don't see that changing Mar 06 03:26:25 but the hw support should be that difficult if all the hardware is working and the apis are in place.. all of which i am sure the debian guys wouldn't mind helping with Mar 06 03:26:38 maybe even a debian/maemo merger might be a good idea Mar 06 03:26:39 * jpinx logged into the thread, but has nfc about the issues/people Mar 06 03:26:42 is there any decent new device that has hw-kbd and non-FSCKNG-c-ts? Mar 06 03:26:58 that's a fair point :-/ heh Mar 06 03:27:09 but n810 didn't have a qwerty either ;) Mar 06 03:27:13 and maemo wasn't too bad on that Mar 06 03:27:28 and there is also stuff like the note Mar 06 03:27:31 the n900 hardware will take some beating (apart from the usb port problem Mar 06 03:27:35 which has a large enough screen to make a vkb viable Mar 06 03:27:39 errr, what else was it N810 had? Mar 06 03:27:48 jpinx: there are a lot with the modem issue as well Mar 06 03:27:57 heh Mar 06 03:27:58 a qwertz? Mar 06 03:28:02 qwerty :-P Mar 06 03:28:03 too Mar 06 03:28:03 virtual kbd's are a pita Mar 06 03:28:09 you germans.. with your z :-P Mar 06 03:28:16 jpinx: i agree Mar 06 03:28:27 but there aren't any devices coming out with hw kbs anymore nowadays Mar 06 03:28:30 i blame europe Mar 06 03:28:33 with their qwertz Mar 06 03:28:36 my N810 has a pretty good hw kbd, better than N900 Mar 06 03:28:38 :) Mar 06 03:28:45 Macer: modem issues? my n900 spends most of it's life connecting my laptop to the world Mar 06 03:28:49 i guess it is easier to layout a vkb Mar 06 03:28:56 instead of supporting maps for different hw kbs? Mar 06 03:29:07 at least that's what xsacha said in symbian which made perfect sense Mar 06 03:29:32 jpinx: look it up. quite a few people (myself included) had their modems die Mar 06 03:29:41 where they would no longer read the sim or read the sim as not being inserted Mar 06 03:29:43 it wasn't a pin issue Mar 06 03:29:47 something else broke Mar 06 03:29:57 even nokia gave me an off the wall solution Mar 06 03:30:05 "Try wedging a piece of paper in the battery compartment" Mar 06 03:30:06 lol Mar 06 03:30:09 NOKIA said to do this! Mar 06 03:30:24 Macer: that has worked for me with other mobiles ;) Mar 06 03:30:27 after not honoring my warranty because the device was a UK device and i was in the US Mar 06 03:30:35 it worked for me as well for a while Mar 06 03:30:38 then again it stopped Mar 06 03:30:45 and you can only shove so much paper into the compartment ;) Mar 06 03:30:51 Macer: hardware dies - it's a fact of life ;) Mar 06 03:30:59 yeah but the n900 i had before that Mar 06 03:31:03 had the usb port fall off Mar 06 03:31:05 so that's 2 i went through Mar 06 03:31:07 I have a spare unused n900 ready ;) Mar 06 03:31:09 heh Mar 06 03:31:09 nokia helpdesk==idiots with a poor database on their PC Mar 06 03:31:25 DocScrutinizer05: i get that but i mean that was something i never would have expected from a customer support Mar 06 03:31:30 "Shove paper into it." Mar 06 03:31:32 wtf? :) Mar 06 03:31:35 * jpinx never dealt with nokia helpdesk - only irc ;) Mar 06 03:31:40 "Hit it with a hammer while dancing around it." Mar 06 03:31:55 lol, kinda Mar 06 03:32:02 either way.. my point being that things happen.. they are no longer in production so they will die out Mar 06 03:32:13 even die hard people will break theirs and say "what is the point anymore" and just move on Mar 06 03:32:20 without there being a fresh pool of hardware Mar 06 03:32:32 which is why i asked about hte debian on android phones projects ;) Mar 06 03:32:38 because it seemed like a good area to expand into Mar 06 03:32:38 that's what you get when 200 indians google the net for answers to problems confronted to 1st level helpdesk Mar 06 03:33:00 at the very least a good open area to keep maemo viable... make a better vkb Mar 06 03:33:06 heh Mar 06 03:33:10 Macer: debian would have issues with the touchscreen I think Mar 06 03:33:14 yeah Mar 06 03:33:21 i think that is the only area they are having problems with :-/ Mar 06 03:33:34 but you're a group of smart guys.. maybe you can get maemo working with it :) Mar 06 03:33:35 lol Mar 06 03:33:36 ubuntu has a touchscreen version Mar 06 03:33:44 plus you'd be doing the debian/ubuntu guys a favor Mar 06 03:33:50 and favors are always nice Mar 06 03:34:10 *burrp* Mar 06 03:34:14 DocScrutinizer05: does more favours with free advice in here than you can count ;) Mar 06 03:34:37 i understand that but favors in dev are probably a bit better than favors for me asking about shoving paper into my n900 ;) Mar 06 03:34:45 ie: they can probably help with dev issues you are having problems with Mar 06 03:34:56 the problems may be similar to theirs etc Mar 06 03:35:00 before I do canonical a favor the hell will freeze over Mar 06 03:35:12 Macer: I'm a debian user and I reckon it'll be a whilte before debain is ready for touchscreen ... meantime all the old n900 hardware will have failed Mar 06 03:35:16 i'm just saying that .... maemo will eventually require expansion Mar 06 03:35:30 especially on the hardware front Mar 06 03:35:45 the numbers are dwindling Mar 06 03:35:55 just throwing that out there for consideration Mar 06 03:36:06 it may be a good move to make Mar 06 03:36:11 afaict maemo exists only because nokia would not open their drivers Mar 06 03:36:38 exactly Mar 06 03:36:39 with open drivers the n900 could probably run on debian stable Mar 06 03:37:00 hey the n900 is a scrappy device Mar 06 03:37:01 not only drivers. Middleware, and core apps like dialer, calendar etc Mar 06 03:37:03 but it's dated Mar 06 03:37:10 i still like playing old nintendo games :) Mar 06 03:37:24 DocScrutinizer05: what's the chances of nokia opening up now that the hardware is no longer in production ? Mar 06 03:37:31 lol Mar 06 03:37:32 fuck all Mar 06 03:37:34 zilch Mar 06 03:37:36 remember who runs nokia now Mar 06 03:37:47 MS ? ;) Mar 06 03:37:48 Hmm -- true :( Mar 06 03:37:50 yup Mar 06 03:38:03 i speak to an ex maemo dev on another channel Mar 06 03:38:10 he managed to get work at intel over there Mar 06 03:38:27 heh Mar 06 03:38:28 had nothing good to say about what happened Mar 06 03:38:34 intel is a non-factor in the mobile market Mar 06 03:38:46 they need to make something that doesn't require a fan Mar 06 03:38:55 a) they don't own the (C) of a lot of stuff made by colabora et al. b) they would need to get stuff reviewed by their lawyers which is a painfully long and expensive process Mar 06 03:39:02 I know a couple of maemo devs - now employed elsewhere - there comments are priceless Mar 06 03:39:03 Macer: they have, and they are employing a lot of ex-nokia maemo people apaprently Mar 06 03:39:12 c) they won't earn a single dollar by doing so Mar 06 03:39:14 orlok: i'll believe it when i see it ;) Mar 06 03:39:32 Macer: Intel's responsible for whatever maemo turned into, are they not? Mar 06 03:39:42 meego? they had a small part to play Mar 06 03:39:49 but that doesn't help them with their hw engineering ;) Mar 06 03:40:14 i believe intel was "one of partners..." Mar 06 03:40:27 along with nokia who a few months later abandoned it in favor of saving their asses with MS money Mar 06 03:40:59 intel has to be like a decade behind arm if not more Mar 06 03:41:03 has to be said that nokia have totally lost the plot Mar 06 03:41:44 shame really -- they made some excellent hardware years ago..... Mar 06 03:41:53 sure did.... i just recently got an e7 heh Mar 06 03:41:59 the thing is like 10x better than anything android Mar 06 03:42:26 i was shocked how good belle was . they were really just right there with it Mar 06 03:42:54 then just went all over the dart board trying to stop the stock price slaughter from iphone and android show just shoved them off the hill Mar 06 03:43:42 i honestly think if they stuck with symbian just another year ... and kept maemo/meego niche for a bit longer .. they'd have made it through :) Mar 06 03:44:02 but i guess panic is a bitch Mar 06 03:45:23 panic indeed - now I hope the maemo project won't panin in the same way Mar 06 03:46:05 well.. like i suggested.... expansion of hardware should be an incredibly important factor .. with nothing readily available it will just fade :) but that's just me. i could be wrong. Mar 06 03:46:50 Macer: I choose the n900 because the hardware is solid, and the OS was something like debian Mar 06 03:46:57 as did i heh Mar 06 03:47:00 i'm sure most did Mar 06 03:47:17 it's absolutely awesome Mar 06 03:47:35 but i've had 2 die on me ;) so minus 2 from the hardware pool Mar 06 03:47:46 and it isn't like the cells are regenerating anymore lol Mar 06 03:47:54 but there is so much could be done with it if the hardware drivers were opened up Mar 06 03:48:42 there are no closed drivers Mar 06 03:48:47 Macer: I am looking for broken screen n900's to buy and fix to act as future replacements Mar 06 03:49:00 drivers are kernel space which by GPL needs to be FOSS Mar 06 03:49:18 it's the middleware that's fsckdup by obfuscation Mar 06 03:49:33 DocScrutinizer05: ok - I stand corrected, but the parts of the system which are currently closed and preventing an android like developement Mar 06 03:49:47 like PA plugins that don't allow porting katest PA to maemo fremantle Mar 06 03:50:00 * jpinx never heard the term "middleware" before ;) Mar 06 03:50:10 you have same shit on android, just worse Mar 06 03:50:26 ~wiki middleware Mar 06 03:50:31 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleware (URL), Wikipedia explains: "In its most general sense, 'middleware' is computer software that provides services to software applications beyond those available from the operating system. Middleware can be described as "software glue".[http://web.archive.org/web/20120629211518/http://www.middleware.org/whatis.html What is Middleware?] Thus middleware is not obviously part of an operating system, not a database ... Mar 06 03:50:32 ;) Mar 06 03:51:46 ~closed Mar 06 03:51:46 it has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages Mar 06 03:52:29 all those fucking libs essential for maemo and not even focumented API Mar 06 03:52:42 documented* Mar 06 03:53:31 gettings cell broadcast SMs to work, jonwil had to patch a libisi binary since no sourcecode available to fix a silly bug in it Mar 06 03:55:43 same for PA and audio policies, which Pali tackled Mar 06 03:55:50 there are zillions more Mar 06 03:55:54 ask SpeedEvil Mar 06 03:56:20 :s Mar 06 03:56:37 his bonmot about how maemo got designed is unsurpassed Mar 06 03:57:02 you can't help but have to think they did that on purpose Mar 06 03:57:19 I've in the past said that maemo was designed to allow application development, and no more. Mar 06 03:57:21 and on HARM they excelled on it Mar 06 03:57:25 yes - it's like they wanted a shelf-life on the system Mar 06 03:57:52 harm is a disaster Mar 06 03:57:55 there are a twisty maze of interconnected daemons, all talking over in, or poorly documented interfaces. Mar 06 03:59:05 without source, so you basically have to reimplement all the closed bits damn near from scratch. or do really, really nasty reverse engineering. if you want to for example add an internet connection protocol that isn't supported Mar 06 03:59:09 check timed Mar 06 03:59:12 alarmd Mar 06 03:59:23 missioncontrol Mar 06 03:59:28 you name it Mar 06 04:00:18 even if these were opensource, it wouldn't be easy to replace them Mar 06 04:00:36 simply because of their interconnectedness. Mar 06 04:01:29 add that they're binary, and worse, connected to an undocumented modem and other hardware you have to reverse engineer, and that tools for reverse engineering arm are less common Mar 06 04:01:33 and... Mar 06 04:01:42 https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages <- read it and weep Mar 06 04:02:38 reading that, you'll realize that maemo is stillborn for a foss project Mar 06 04:03:14 Nokia promissed but cheated on us, and never delivered Mar 06 04:03:32 wiki.maemo.org uses an invalid security certificate. Mar 06 04:03:32 The certificate expired on 12/08/12 06:59. Mar 06 04:03:48 *sigh* really new stuff Mar 06 04:04:02 guess who's in charge Mar 06 04:04:31 who ? Mar 06 04:04:38 since maemo.org domain still isn't owned by "us2 there's just so much we can do about it Mar 06 04:06:22 http://roundup.fourecks.de/maemo/issue4 et al Mar 06 04:07:25 for sure nokia will be trying to quietly strangle maemo etc to force people into their new stuff Mar 06 04:07:58 I bet they don't give a shit about those maybe 20k maemo users still active Mar 06 04:08:24 Nokia builds 20k devixes for the trashbin, on PV runs in their fab Mar 06 04:08:45 of course they give a shit - that's why they are killing the old system and forcing those users to buy into the new stuff Mar 06 04:08:57 and that's the whole problem - maemo doesn't matter no more Mar 06 04:09:16 dearm on Mar 06 04:09:22 dream even Mar 06 04:09:34 ;) Mar 06 04:10:12 Nokia sold i'd guess 2 Mio N900, probbaly quite a bit more of N9, and they don't care about those 30k still active N900 of today Mar 06 04:10:33 not even worth a single engineer's or manager's thoughts of a single day Mar 06 04:10:48 30k users is a drop in the ocean Mar 06 04:11:40 totally insignificant in corporate terms Mar 06 04:12:19 Well, guys, I want a good, open N900 replacement. Get busy! Mar 06 04:12:25 heck, they had an akamai server farm for repo and even for tablets-dev. Now we're servicing that with a single VM on a 100Mb/s uplink, and we have lots of headroom Mar 06 04:13:14 robbiethe1st: sell kits, dude! sell kits! Mar 06 04:13:54 I'd be willing to spend a few hundred $ if I could get a decent tablet with something open on it. Mar 06 04:14:13 raspbery pi ? Mar 06 04:14:18 haha, everybody is Mar 06 04:14:19 And Android /does not count/, as it sucks. Give me Hildon, damnit! Mar 06 04:15:07 The problem is that all the few 'open' tablets I've seen, have crummy specs. absolutely horrible. Mar 06 04:15:07 for a ballpark figure: iirc the TI zoom-II was USD~2000 Mar 06 04:15:40 Especially when I can get a $300 Ainol semi-open tablet with high res screen etc. Mar 06 04:15:53 I almost got me one, until I realized that the SD-card will protrude when inserted Mar 06 04:16:07 tablets are not going to replace my eeepc anytime soon. I've tried several, own one and they all suck hairy balls Mar 06 04:16:18 which is a real W*T*F Mar 06 04:16:35 Will protrude on...? Mar 06 04:17:03 Also, is it sad that the best tablet I Mar 06 04:17:11 eh? what's unclear about "will protrude"? Mar 06 04:17:22 On what device? Mar 06 04:17:38 insert a SD card, it will be half inside the case, half outside Mar 06 04:17:43 zoom-II Mar 06 04:17:46 Oh Mar 06 04:18:17 * jpinx has a Master A702 - it works ..... Mar 06 04:18:55 http://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12013&contentId=53575&DCMP=wtbu_zoom&HQS=Other+PR+zoom2_technical Mar 06 04:19:18 I want a device with a decent screen, powerful, good Linux support and such, and a /huge/ battery or secondary-battery module in a convertable/slider form factor. Mar 06 04:19:40 Absolute best would be a 5-6" factor, slightly bigger than N900 Mar 06 04:19:59 robbiethe1st: don't we all ? Mar 06 04:20:06 7 or 10 would do OK though... or even a bigger 13-16" device Mar 06 04:20:12 *sigh* yeah Mar 06 04:20:35 It's like, even Microsoft realizes tablets need keyboards. why doesn't anyone else? Mar 06 04:21:07 robbiethe1st: over here they sell tablet cases with usb kbds in -- very popular Mar 06 04:21:21 I've seen those Mar 06 04:21:27 But still, it's nothing like a slider Mar 06 04:21:59 slider on a 7" tablet would be a bit unweildy ;) Mar 06 04:22:17 I dunno Mar 06 04:22:34 I'm happy with the dimensions of the n900 - just make the screen go all the way to the edges Mar 06 04:22:34 Take a look at the new 10" slider(N950 style) for Win 8 Mar 06 04:22:39 I think it's Sony Mar 06 04:22:50 ...and give me 1024x600 at least Mar 06 04:23:01 * jpinx needs something that will go in his pocket Mar 06 04:23:11 yeah me too Mar 06 04:23:21 even the samsung note is too big Mar 06 04:23:24 seems like the era of the sliding qwerty(z) is over in favor of a cheaper vkb Mar 06 04:23:49 they will learn Mar 06 04:23:49 not to mention companies seem to want things to be slimmer Mar 06 04:23:55 Macer: I have a vkbd on my tablet and it is almost unsueable :( Mar 06 04:24:08 unuseable -- even Mar 06 04:24:10 jpinx: on my tf101 i usually installed the thumb keyboard Mar 06 04:24:24 the standard one was just simply retarded for a 10" screen heh Mar 06 04:24:45 we had decent screensize with N810, when N900 came out we asked "ooh, why so small, we would have liked it to be like N810!" now look where every cellphone manuf is today Mar 06 04:24:49 same for kbd Mar 06 04:25:16 heh Mar 06 04:25:18 Surprisingly, at least for me, the N900 /works/ Mar 06 04:25:20 i didn't mind the n900 screen Mar 06 04:25:26 it was the same res anyways Mar 06 04:25:26 when N9 came out, we said "WTF?! we had good kbd on N900, why none on N9". Wanna bet what everybody will do in two years? ;-D Mar 06 04:25:27 It works better than the N950 for me Mar 06 04:25:37 lol Mar 06 04:25:50 by then tho nokia was in MS' pocket Mar 06 04:26:00 i wish they had released at least an n950 to the masses on their exit Mar 06 04:26:15 too bad i can't put meego on my e7 :-/ Mar 06 04:26:15 nokia is just ms mobile arm now Mar 06 04:26:23 seems so Mar 06 04:27:54 what I *really* can't wait to see is Jolla's introduction to the hw market Mar 06 04:28:35 every time i think of something "new" i am reminded of that disgusting touchbook Mar 06 04:28:37 by AI Mar 06 04:28:38 if they will listen to the geeks and get hw-kbd, or go the braindead way to try and challenge iFroit on their own battleground Mar 06 04:28:46 my lesson in never pre-ordering Mar 06 04:29:40 and a lesson well learned.. i think i took a $100 loss when i sold it to someone Mar 06 04:29:55 i mean to a dev it was probably kind of neat.. beagleboard with a built on touchscreen Mar 06 04:30:30 i'm often curious as if AI owned the patent on the detachable keyboard Mar 06 04:30:42 I still take bets on them trying to launch a me-too iFroit device and go the Nokia winphone fate Mar 06 04:31:10 DocScrutinizer05: +1 Mar 06 04:33:57 if they do, I promise nobody will remeber their name even, 2 years after launch of first device Mar 06 04:34:47 you'll find their devices in jabanese 2nd-hand shops, for 20 bucks Mar 06 04:34:54 japanese Mar 06 04:35:29 *occasionally* Mar 06 04:36:16 if at all Mar 06 04:38:51 those who don't care about hw-kbs and such stuff are not the customers that will buy a device for the shiny splashy GUI and the nifty stock apps. Those buy an iPhone since their neighbour got one too Mar 06 04:39:29 the other ones just buy the cheapest thing they can get with their subsidized contract Mar 06 04:39:42 where's Jolla in that picture? Mar 06 04:40:52 cheaper than android/Samsung? hardly Mar 06 04:41:34 more me-too appeal than iPhone? dream on! Mar 06 04:42:35 and, of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE Mar 06 05:06:53 hm Mar 06 05:07:12 i'd love to get another n900.. but am terrified that in about 6 months i'll have another broken one heh Mar 06 05:07:36 i think i'll stick to my e7 for now Mar 06 05:07:39 maybe if that breaks Mar 06 05:21:59 Macer: stop babbling and get a N900 already Mar 06 05:22:16 let the USB reinforce by somebody who knows his shit Mar 06 05:22:53 and don't apply too much force to the keyboard (so modem chip won't snap off the opposite side of PCB) Mar 06 05:24:26 I had one flexcable connector failure in my first N900, probably due to it being already weak and brekaing when I disassembled device (no, I did this before ;-D) Mar 06 05:25:06 but that's been it, not other problems with the two devices that are always on since, well, since N900 appeared Mar 06 05:28:49 on one of them I swapped keymat two times already Mar 06 05:31:19 DocScrutinizer05: I use my n900 over ssh a lot - saves wear on the hardware ;) Mar 06 05:37:41 I do same, on T900 (devel device). My IroN900 (daily phone) gets plugged to charger ~2 times per day, and pulled out from pouch ~20 times per day, to slide it open and IRC on it Mar 06 05:38:35 It even dropped to the pavement and I tried to catch it with my foot and instead stepped on it, which left some scars on the screen metal frame Mar 06 05:39:04 hmmm Mar 06 07:41:03 [notice] repo is back to "normal" Mar 06 08:47:51 DocScrutinizer05: hi, are you there ? Mar 06 08:47:55 Have a minute ? Mar 06 08:48:10 a minute, yes Mar 06 08:48:17 2 questions Mar 06 08:48:49 1st, i have non-standart battery, 1700mAh, and it the handset doesn't work with it well Mar 06 08:49:16 It's charging ok, but it shows fullcharge for quite a long time Mar 06 08:49:27 then it shows 40% charge at onece Mar 06 08:49:43 and it calculates it as a usual futher Mar 06 08:50:01 how can i calibrate bme to use hi-capacity cell ? Mar 06 08:50:25 when you're using standard bme, there's no way to calibrate it Mar 06 08:50:55 Do i have to install battery-patch to make it non-standard ? :D Mar 06 08:51:02 no Mar 06 08:51:43 didn't Estel_ write bnf especially to calibrate non-standard batteries? Mar 06 08:51:45 I think bme does some kind of auto-calibration after a while Mar 06 08:52:02 nfc what's bnf Mar 06 08:52:08 I don't think it's so intelligent to Mar 06 08:52:16 DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84452 Mar 06 08:53:54 meh Mar 06 08:54:05 So, there's no way to retrain the bme for this batt ? Mar 06 08:54:28 I think it still count it as a 1300mAhz Mar 06 08:54:43 possible Mar 06 08:55:02 I think bme does some kind of auto-calibration after a while Mar 06 08:55:15 nobody knows for sure what bme does Mar 06 08:56:15 Hm.. how can i check for current batt capabilities via sysfs ? Mar 06 08:56:50 capabilities? Mar 06 08:58:11 Information Mar 06 08:58:31 chargin rate,capacity,some vendor info Mar 06 08:59:02 there's no vendor info, really Mar 06 08:59:06 lshal|grep battery Mar 06 08:59:19 except for the resistor that gives the supposed full charge "design" Mar 06 08:59:27 wildly inaccurate and meaningless Mar 06 08:59:28 or not Mar 06 08:59:32 yep Mar 06 08:59:34 bogus Mar 06 08:59:38 `hal-device bme` Mar 06 09:00:04 XATRIX: you might want to use http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh Mar 06 09:00:51 start that and follow the instructions on screen (you need i2ctools installed for it) Mar 06 09:00:51 DocScrutinizer05: both bme and bme-replacement lock the related i2c bus, right? Mar 06 09:01:29 no, bme-replacement looks at sysfs nodes of bq27200.ko Mar 06 09:01:44 afaik Mar 06 09:01:51 DocScrutinizer05: bq27x00-battery is to be considered part of bme-replacement :) Mar 06 09:01:54 it's only loaded by it Mar 06 09:01:59 the whole point of bme-replacement Mar 06 09:02:02 i2ctools are known as damageable for this device! Mar 06 09:02:25 don't mess with i2c* commands and you're safe Mar 06 09:02:25 XATRIX: well the problem is not te damage to i2ctools, the problem is the damage to the device itself Mar 06 09:02:29 *the Mar 06 09:02:58 yes, it's can be hardware-damaged via i2ctool Mar 06 09:03:08 maybe it's a better idea to make bme-replacement ? Mar 06 09:03:13 no Mar 06 09:03:23 I told you it's not mature yet Mar 06 09:03:35 what's your problem anyway Mar 06 09:04:00 bme is known to show guesstimates for battery charge, even with standard battery Mar 06 09:04:43 Yea Mar 06 09:04:57 and except for "very low, soon will shut off" you can't tell any useful info from battery charge level anyway Mar 06 09:05:28 not because it's inprecise but because you don't know about your power consumption to come Mar 06 09:05:38 well maybe you don't :P Mar 06 09:06:21 device may shut down 30 min after battery reaches 50% (when watching movie or doing a phonecall) or it may stay up for another 5 days Mar 06 09:06:52 fresh battery - many hours on idling then put wifi hotspot on and how much time is left ? Mar 06 09:07:11 those are the extreme points, all in between is even less predictable Mar 06 09:07:23 kerio: everyone has different useage patterns that the software can not know Mar 06 09:07:39 i'm not talking about the software Mar 06 09:07:42 i'm talking about myself Mar 06 09:08:26 ~15mA when idling with wifi on Mar 06 09:08:35 then you will know how ong your battery will last ;) Mar 06 09:08:41 indeed! Mar 06 09:08:49 luckily, that's kinda easy Mar 06 09:09:02 "at least until i recharge it, this night" Mar 06 09:09:27 XATRIX: seems that bnf stuff is doing proper readout of bq27200 chip, so using my calibrating script it should show best info available about battery. Similarly good info (or better yet) from http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/ Mar 06 09:09:29 that'll do ;) Mar 06 09:10:58 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 will need bash Mar 06 09:11:11 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail-perl not Mar 06 09:11:52 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27200.sh is probably most useful terse info, particularly when called with a period-in-seconds parameter Mar 06 09:12:18 like `bw27200.sh 30` Mar 06 09:12:24 http://fpaste.org/O1nU/ Mar 06 09:12:25