**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 09 02:59:59 2013 Mar 09 03:05:20 divVerent, for photos and other sensitive thing, I use truecrypt on N900 Mar 09 03:05:24 separate partition Mar 09 03:05:43 + startup script at boot time which asks for passwords and keyfiles Mar 09 03:06:16 then, addressbook, mail things etc were moved to truecrypt partition and symlinked Mar 09 03:06:18 sms database Mar 09 03:06:27 generally, everything worth keeping private Mar 09 03:06:57 now, N900 is so kind, that after boot, it wait a minute or so before polling things like addressbook (unless you open it manually) Mar 09 03:07:07 so you have plenty of time to fill password and keys Mar 09 03:07:46 if not done in those minute (or two or three, cant remember) hildon split some pop-up errors, then, everything act like on fresh device - no contacts, bo sms, no mails, no anything Mar 09 03:08:26 new ones are saved for runtime, but dissapear after reboot - unless I provide password for truecrypt, which of course bring back my things on place, automagically. Very conveinent Mar 09 03:08:58 CSSU cam, (by my suggestion, btw ;) ) use config file that allow you to provide path where photos should be saved Mar 09 03:09:11 so videos and photos went to truecrypt partition too Mar 09 03:09:15 divVerent, ^^^ Mar 09 03:09:30 ~truecrypt Mar 09 03:09:30 it has been said that truecrypt is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81435 Mar 09 03:10:03 IMo very conveinent way. Everything explained there, including how to make sure partition gets unmounted in cause of thievery Mar 09 03:10:53 (getting rid of lockcode require at least one reboot, so automounted partition get unmounted) Mar 09 03:12:17 now as for regular system security, there are things fools do to have password requiment for root, but as said, no shadow, so it's worth shit Mar 09 03:12:47 and rootsh, while seems like broken concept, in practice just work, without unneeded complications that doesn't give any *real* security Mar 09 03:13:14 OTOH, your point about browser exploit is interesting and I don't care if N900 is unlikely the target Mar 09 03:13:27 if something can be made better/more secure, it's worth it Mar 09 03:14:28 but even in this case fool's messing with duplicating root security are futile, as no shadow (I know, there is more than that, but it pretty sums it to conclusion). Mar 09 03:15:16 kerio, any ideas, how one could harden it against browser exploits, leaving alone poor HAM that is so broken, that I would never regret getting rid of it completely? Mar 09 03:16:47 every 1 is asleep, it seems ;) have good night, folks. Mar 09 03:37:03 ~rot13 Estel_ Mar 09 03:37:03 Rfgry_ Mar 09 03:38:22 fools argue like "if something can be made better/more secure, it's worth it" + "root security are futile, as no shadow" Mar 09 03:56:54 risk-analysis. Mar 09 03:57:03 Personally, I'd prefer LUKS to Truecrypt Mar 09 03:57:38 It'd be more secure to launch your phone into the sun. Mar 09 03:59:50 security is measured in "time needed to break in" Mar 09 04:01:59 security is measured in "time needed to break in" Mar 09 04:02:00 and sufficient security is defined as "effort to break barriers is higher than value of the assets protected by those barriers" Mar 09 04:05:15 I dunno about the perceived effort needed by those who rant about useless root password, to bruteforce teh root password from the hash in /etc/password. I also have no idea about the assets those guys carry on their phone. For me a proper root password is not only reasonable to have but actually sufficient to secure my assets I have on N900 Mar 09 05:07:41 hmm, should we discuss a bit about further amendments needed to either HiFo bylaws or council statutes? Mar 09 05:39:30 wow. my lumia 900 got up to $152 on ebay Mar 09 05:39:39 that is far more than i expected heh Mar 09 08:33:34 pleease help me nuke maemo-optify-runonce Mar 09 08:34:10 every time I upgrade or install anything, aptitude tries to install that package first Mar 09 08:34:47 and guess what it does? instant shutdown Mar 09 08:37:17 I can't remove it either, because it kills the process installing it, thus corrupting its own state Mar 09 08:37:26 dpkg: error processing maemo-optify-runonce (--remove): Mar 09 08:41:25 Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should reinstall it before attempting a removal. Mar 09 08:42:28 (sorry for the delay, it's not exactly easy to copy-remove_newline-paste on this.. Mar 09 08:47:36 this worked dpkg --force-remove-reinstreq -P maemo-optify-runonce Mar 09 08:53:12 aand I want to install mp-fremantle-community-pr which PreDepends: maemo-optify-runonce Mar 09 08:58:26 and I'm also plagued by hash mismatch on the "official" repos (maemo.org I think) Mar 09 08:59:28 eddyb: you can either use mirrors or the new official repos at 213.128.137.22 Mar 09 09:00:25 ~mirrors Mar 09 09:00:26 mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new Mar 09 09:00:58 ~rmo-new Mar 09 09:00:59 hmm... rmo-new is do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 Mar 09 09:01:25 I like the hostname hack :D Mar 09 09:02:20 thedead1440: thanks, that solves the hash problem, but I still can't use cssu-testing-thumb properly because of maemo-optify-runonce :( Mar 09 09:03:02 eddyb: np; why not install it now that you have removed it properly? Mar 09 09:03:14 it==maemo-optify-runonce Mar 09 09:03:50 as I said, it instantly shuts down the system when installing Mar 09 09:04:36 it kills apt-worker before it can be marked as installed Mar 09 09:05:43 how the heck did you end up in trouble with it in the first place? Mar 09 09:06:11 mp-fremantle-community-pr pre-depends on it Mar 09 09:06:34 oh Mar 09 09:07:42 sweet, at least I got node.js on this :D Mar 09 09:09:58 weird, the maemo-optify-runonce description looks innocent Mar 09 09:10:09 it says it just moves files Mar 09 09:10:58 brb this might shutdown Mar 09 09:11:07 ask kerio about it Mar 09 09:19:48 I tried renaming /usr/bin/killall, that made no difference Mar 09 09:20:22 why would you do that? Mar 09 09:20:50 thedead1440: it was killing processes, I thought maybe it ended up killing something vital that would trigger a shutdown Mar 09 09:21:06 killall browserd as root triggers a shutdown IIRC Mar 09 09:21:11 killall is linked to busybox Mar 09 09:21:18 you don't want to be screwing busybox up Mar 09 09:21:26 I renamed the link Mar 09 09:21:39 DocScrutinizer05: hey! Is there any way to upload packages to the new "test" autobuilder? I tried GARAGE-USERNAME@213.128.137.22 Mar 09 09:23:53 I think you need to upload to drop Mar 09 09:24:01 not to repo Mar 09 09:25:10 at least ssh complains the drop.maemo.org IP address changed - that's a good sign in this case :) Mar 09 09:25:32 anyway it's not exactly recommended to use this for production yet, since we might need to do a final rsync immediately before switch-over, and that would nuke all your stuff Mar 09 09:25:52 so I'm looking in the preinstall for maemo-optify-runonce Mar 09 09:26:01 no worries, I just want to test if the build works at all. Mar 09 09:26:15 # Here we have to reboot - before starting SSU pkg upgrade HAM stops & kills most of applications, system is in non-functional state anyway. Reboot nicely - with display blanking and led fading off. Mar 09 09:26:52 DocScrutinizer05: "scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/: No such file or directory" Mar 09 09:27:06 try garage then Mar 09 09:27:23 before the reboot, dokill "hildon-application-manager" "TERM"; dokill "apt-worker" "TERM" Mar 09 09:27:30 I can't recall what the guys did for upload Mar 09 09:27:48 eddyb: so after reboot it should continue the process maybe you just have to be patient Mar 09 09:27:56 nope Mar 09 09:28:00 it doesn't even reboot Mar 09 09:28:02 thanks anyway :) Mar 09 09:28:32 garage is 26, btw Mar 09 09:28:45 it uses pidof and kill, but that's not the reason it shuts down Mar 09 09:30:10 (( aand I want to install mp-fremantle-community-pr)) Mar 09 09:30:21 I don't think that's any recommended Mar 09 09:30:36 DocScrutinizer05: 26 as in .26 I guess. Just seems to hang without any transfer happening Mar 09 09:30:41 DocScrutinizer05: I want cssu-testing-thumb Mar 09 09:31:03 thedead1440: it's supposed to show me a banner saying that I need at least 150MB of free space in /home. but that's commented in the script :/ Mar 09 09:31:22 alright, looks like it's not ready for prime time yet :) Mar 09 09:31:29 thomasjfox: ask jacekowski or pali Mar 09 09:31:54 * thomasjfox summons jacekowski Mar 09 09:32:17 we encountered that "scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/: No such file or directory" and the guys worked around it or fixed it or whatever, I didn't follow Mar 09 09:32:44 I guess drop.maemo.org is right, just the path will be different Mar 09 09:32:55 I dunno if it's a NFS mount or whatever Mar 09 09:33:10 might be Mar 09 09:33:27 because if scp says "no such file or directory" for the remote host, then authentication was successful Mar 09 09:33:29 lemme check Mar 09 09:35:17 hahahaha Mar 09 09:35:34 return `/bin/busybox stat -ft "$1" | /bin/busybox awk '{print int($5*$9/(1024*1024)) }'` Mar 09 09:35:59 but stat -ft /home displays two lines... and the free space for the second, blank line, is 0 Mar 09 09:36:12 damn thing is broken Mar 09 09:37:54 dafaq, sorry!! http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/ Mar 09 09:37:58 did they even test the script? it looks like this wasn't supposed to work, ever Mar 09 09:40:01 eddyb: i don't remember people on the TMO thread complaining... Mar 09 09:40:19 I am telling you nokia fucked up Mar 09 09:40:51 now, I think I can hijack stat to return the right line, all the time, without the second blank line Mar 09 09:43:16 sometimes, when connecting to wlan, n900 says "could not connect, try again?" if I tell it to connect wlan another time, wlancond goes 100% cpu Mar 09 09:43:31 is that a known problem? Mar 09 09:44:34 haha plugged in USB saved me from reboot Mar 09 09:45:30 now I can just ignore the stupid thing Mar 09 09:46:57 the stat trick didn't work, though :/ Mar 09 09:47:51 thomasjfox: did you try first time ~45min ago to use builder? Mar 09 09:49:56 I just have to wait 7 seconds and ignore the dpkg preinstall error Mar 09 09:50:37 thanks guys, at least my N900 is now in a more manageable state :) Mar 09 09:55:31 DocScrutinizer05: yep Mar 09 09:55:46 hehe, you killed blade-b Mar 09 09:55:50 :o) Mar 09 09:56:05 Funnily it didn't even upload anything Mar 09 09:56:30 what was first thing you did? could you share the cmdline in private /query ? Mar 09 09:57:31 possibly with result/diagnostic-output Mar 09 09:58:00 DocScrutinizer05: I'll just copy my terminal output from the moment I started, it's not that much Mar 09 09:58:36 sure, pastebin it and post me the URL in a /wuery Mar 09 09:58:42 query even Mar 09 09:59:28 sorry, no DCC Mar 09 09:59:31 crap Mar 09 09:59:41 didn't want to put it on a pastebin... Mar 09 10:00:12 I'll upload it somewhere private Mar 09 10:00:16 privatepaste.com Mar 09 10:00:52 or send per mail Mar 09 10:07:09 DocScrutinizer05: did the high load on blade-b fix "itself" automatically? Or this some kind of watchdog reset it? Mar 09 10:07:43 nah, we had to push the button Mar 09 10:09:42 I could try to repeat my steps and then we can check when/how it dies Mar 09 10:20:06 thomasjfox: we're still investigating Mar 09 10:21:23 not even sure if it's been you, though "L.J.Gibbs: I don't believe in chance" Mar 09 10:27:38 like I said, I could try again Mar 09 10:27:44 then we know for sure Mar 09 10:28:00 but when you asked me if I tried it ~45min ago, my uptime showed 47min Mar 09 10:28:05 well, everything up again, go ahead Mar 09 10:28:15 I just got up to try a rockbox build :) Mar 09 10:28:22 as I said, try IP of new drop.m.o Mar 09 10:28:31 which is it? Mar 09 10:29:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Mar 09 10:29:56 ah, .25 Mar 09 10:30:32 yes, uploading! Mar 09 10:35:05 Hi folks! Mar 09 10:54:26 thomasjfox: builder active Mar 09 11:07:27 04:14:28 Estel_ | but even in this case fool's messing with duplicating root security are futile, as no shadow (I know, there is more than that, but it pretty sums it to conclusion). Mar 09 11:07:33 Estel_: actually "fixable" Mar 09 11:07:47 set an invalid password hash for root, and ONLY log in via ssh with key ;) Mar 09 11:08:07 another thing... 04:14:28 Estel_ | but even in this case fool's messing with duplicating root security are futile, as no shadow (I know, there is more than that, but it pretty sums it to conclusion). Mar 09 11:08:08 sorry Mar 09 11:08:16 has anyone mirrored http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php? Mar 09 11:08:42 I would like to get the SDK VM images, as scratchbox and the SDK apparently only run on 32bit Debian-based distros, and I have a 64bit Arch Mar 09 11:10:04 (all I REALLY want is a foo2hp binary...) Mar 09 11:17:25 ~tablets-dev Mar 09 11:17:31 ~mirror Mar 09 11:17:32 [mirror] http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new Mar 09 11:17:38 meh Mar 09 11:17:41 ~skeiron Mar 09 11:17:42 skeiron is probably the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Mar 09 11:30:48 DocScrutinizer05: hm... none seem to have mirrored the VM images Mar 09 11:32:24 skeiron ends up pointing me to http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ Mar 09 11:32:38 but the link again goes to http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Mar 09 11:34:33 then we should make them again adding latest scratchbox and targets Mar 09 11:36:33 DocScrutinizer05: looks like the build succeeded :) cool! Mar 09 11:36:53 surprisedß Mar 09 11:36:57 ? Mar 09 11:37:20 yep :) in December it failed with some weird error Mar 09 11:37:28 also I didn't get any build log email Mar 09 11:37:53 or can anyone compile foo2hp for me? want to get my printer to work from the N900 Mar 09 11:38:15 setting up a new VM and then all the SDK stuff would take days... too bad the Debian binaries don't work due to N900 having a too old libc Mar 09 11:38:15 I'll try a diablo build, too Mar 09 11:38:34 I don't think diablo builder is even enabled Mar 09 11:38:48 dunno Mar 09 11:38:53 my goal would BTW not be using cups, but just the foo2hp wrapper called by a trivial "lpr.sh" script Mar 09 11:39:06 for sure we haven't tested it Mar 09 11:39:25 let's see what happens Mar 09 11:39:32 WAIT... actually, MAYBE debian oldstable's foo2zjs works... Mar 09 11:39:42 it still fails to dpkg -i due to wrong libc Mar 09 11:39:46 but it SEEMS like the binary runs anyway Mar 09 11:39:58 foo2zjs depends on libc6 (>= 2.7-1); however: Mar 09 11:40:00 Version of libc6 on system is 2.5.1-1eglibc27+0m5. Mar 09 11:40:07 is there a simple way to tell dpkg to not care and assume it's configured anyway? Mar 09 11:40:40 was there some --force or somesuchß Mar 09 11:40:45 ? Mar 09 11:42:02 not really... I tried --force-depends Mar 09 11:42:04 which SEEMS to work Mar 09 11:42:10 but then apt-get -f install wants to remove it Mar 09 11:42:24 looks like I probably will rather have to extract it to a subdir of /opt instead Mar 09 11:46:41 for reference, I used foo2zjs_20070718dfsg-9_armel.deb... its output LOOKS like the right command stream, but I'll know for sure once my son is awake and I can turn on the printer Mar 09 11:46:55 the version from 2009 does not work, missing glibc symbol Mar 09 11:47:20 http://pastebin.com/RyUJR5CF - and this would be my "lpr script<" Mar 09 11:53:40 is a donation to the hildon foundation eligible for tax deduction? Mar 09 12:00:46 hmm since the hildon foundation is a non-profit organization, donations -should- be eligble for tax deduction. I'll give it a try. Mar 09 12:04:35 only thing seems to be that some German tax offices don't accept the paypal transfer for it. Let's see if they act up next year :o) Mar 09 12:21:07 yes, this foo2hp binary works Mar 09 12:21:25 now you can print the Internets! Mar 09 12:25:49 Hi guys, any idea how can i initiate skype video call from my handset ? Mar 09 12:26:00 I can only start IM or voice call Mar 09 12:26:17 But sometimes, after a few video calls, i can initiate it by myself Mar 09 12:26:30 But i can't track it , how did i do it Mar 09 12:26:38 thomasjfox: no, and actually HiFo didn't even bother to update their donations list since 6 weeks. *I* would think twice Mar 09 12:28:32 worst think that can happen is that they don't recognize it. Since the amount is below $100, it won't kill me. Mar 09 12:29:32 worst thing that can happen is that HiFo drools over the money while techstaff pays HDD from own pocket since dealing with HiFo is simply not worth the hassle Mar 09 12:30:20 Any idea about my problem? Mar 09 12:30:33 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1326428#post1326428 Mar 09 12:31:45 [2013-03-09 11:36:50] Something got stuck with the disks. Mar 09 12:31:46 [2013-03-09 11:37:41] all vms couldn't write to disk after ~9:45 or so. Mar 09 12:32:04 hmm Mar 09 12:32:06 hw issue? Mar 09 12:32:52 I had hoped those HDD wait til we get some companions for them before they act up Mar 09 12:32:58 what about the "donations" link here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88222 Mar 09 12:33:14 I thought it sends money to HiFo Mar 09 12:33:21 it does Mar 09 12:33:46 but you think it's a bad idea? It's too late anyway, I already donated... Mar 09 12:33:52 :) Mar 09 12:34:24 http://hildonfoundation.org/supporters/ Mar 09 12:34:31 :shrug: Mar 09 12:35:43 I wrote them a message, let's see what happens Mar 09 12:35:46 I'd think twice to donate to an entity that doesn't even bother to keep their donors updated about state of funding Mar 09 12:35:54 lol Mar 09 12:36:22 I'd guess it's not exactly the first message they get Mar 09 12:36:52 actually blame *me* for not already editing http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88222 Mar 09 12:40:31 bank account status is listed here: http://hildonfoundation.org/board-minutes-for-meeting-on-february-17-2013/ Mar 09 12:40:58 looks like the money is currently frozen at Paypal Mar 09 12:41:06 (if I understand the text correctly) Mar 09 12:44:12 whatever, seems they don't get their stuff sorted. That's why I didn't even bother to *ask* for them paying the needed HDD Mar 09 12:45:41 actually thanks to a great community with lots of support in non-monetary, and thanks to a nice guy at Nokia, we didn't see any payments except that vBulletin license from HiFo funds Mar 09 12:46:32 to be honest, i think vBulletin is a mistake Mar 09 12:46:35 I can't honestly suggest handing more money to HiFo to let it ripe there Mar 09 12:48:00 jacekowski: why? Mar 09 12:48:13 it saved us days and weeks of time Mar 09 12:48:28 and was pretty "cheap" Mar 09 12:49:23 we didn't feel like migarting to something different during migration. I'm not Dawg Mar 09 12:50:01 Yo Dawg, heard youlike migrations, so we made migrations during migrations, so you can headdesk all day long Mar 09 12:50:25 it's not userfriendly Mar 09 12:50:59 and it does a lot of things differently Mar 09 12:51:16 exactly Mar 09 12:51:39 so would you be the one to port stuff and write new plugins for any other sw ? Mar 09 12:52:15 we had other more important things on our plate Mar 09 12:52:33 and still have Mar 09 12:54:04 jacekowski: we discussed it and common sense been it's not worth the effort to safe a 180 bucks and get something new right now Mar 09 12:55:25 if somebody from larger community is willing to port it to something "better", we're willing to support such effort/project by offering a VM and doing tests with life data Mar 09 12:55:36 in 2 months or 3 Mar 09 14:38:40 huhu Mar 09 14:39:16 how can i switch the usb mode from pc to mass storage and vice versa Mar 09 14:39:34 there are two scripts Mar 09 14:39:52 nice Mar 09 14:40:11 osso-usb-mass-storage-*.sh Mar 09 14:41:55 ok, i first need to *-disable.sh and then *-enable.sh Mar 09 14:41:59 ty Mar 09 14:42:03 yw Mar 09 14:44:18 those won't enable pcsuite though Mar 09 14:44:25 also, i'm not sure the ui follows that Mar 09 14:44:34 pcsuite has its own scrips Mar 09 14:44:36 scripts Mar 09 14:45:01 named?\ Mar 09 14:45:09 iirc, they're pcsuite-* Mar 09 14:46:10 also enable and disable, right? Mar 09 14:47:11 pcsuite-disable.sh pcsuite-enable.sh Mar 09 14:48:34 * tx0h nods Mar 09 14:50:30 hmmm.. my linux desktop sees sdb and sdc but i can't mount them Mar 09 14:50:48 you have to mount sdb as a single partition Mar 09 14:50:52 sdc should have a partition table Mar 09 14:50:54 or viceversa Mar 09 14:51:10 blkid might help, iirc Mar 09 14:51:56 both have no partition table (fdisK: unable to open /dev/sdb: No medium found) Mar 09 14:52:02 same with sdc Mar 09 14:52:16 but syslog says they are attached Mar 09 14:52:28 as sg2 and sg3 Mar 09 14:54:33 hmm, so obviously not sdb Mar 09 14:54:43 i blame systemd Mar 09 14:55:56 fair enough I guess Mar 09 15:01:59 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.233325] scsi 8:0:0:0: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 Mar 09 15:02:00 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.233557] sd 8:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg5 type 0 Mar 09 15:02:02 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.234526] scsi 8:0:0:1: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 Mar 09 15:02:03 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.234772] sd 8:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg6 type 0 Mar 09 15:02:05 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.241900] sd 8:0:0:0: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk Mar 09 15:02:06 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.244140] sd 8:0:0:1: [sdf] Attached SCSI removable disk Mar 09 15:02:08 Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn dbus-daemon[879]: **** ADDING /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.8/2-1.8:1.0/host8/target8:0:0/8:0:0:0/block/sde Mar 09 15:02:17 spam! Mar 09 15:02:26 pr0n Mar 09 15:03:14 yepp, looks similar. after a nokia boot i can mount sdb (which is /home/user/MyApps) Mar 09 15:04:47 anyway it needed selecting MSM from menu before my desktop showed them devices as available (well *after* the above quote) Mar 09 15:05:53 kerio: you haven't seen spam yet. that friggin DBUS shit in my syslog is true spam Mar 09 15:06:10 gotta love the linux desktop Mar 09 15:06:12 the above 7 lines dissolve in that Mar 09 15:06:14 i heard it's its year Mar 09 15:06:52 MSM from menu?? Mar 09 15:07:23 plugging in that N900 created like >100 loglines in syslog Mar 09 15:07:51 most of them DBUS spam: Mar 9 16:03:24 saturn dbus-daemon[879]: **** CHANGED /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.8/2-1.8:1.0/host8/target8:0:0/8:0:0:1/block/sdf Mar 09 15:08:07 what is MSM in which menu? Mar 09 15:08:23 mass storage mode Mar 09 15:08:36 in the menu that popps up Mar 09 15:08:46 ah yes, osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh requires a device file as a parameter Mar 09 15:08:47 ah, you mean the dialog Mar 09 15:08:57 so those two are two LUNs that don't do anything Mar 09 15:09:41 oh, device file? lile /dev/mmcblk0 ? Mar 09 15:09:50 it'd have to be /dev/mmcblk0p1 Mar 09 15:09:57 but you have to umount MyDocs first Mar 09 15:10:02 or Bad Things will happen Mar 09 15:12:26 so you really give the partition and not the whole disk Mar 09 15:16:33 why does frozen cake takes so long to thaw Mar 09 15:17:45 because you can't wait to eat it Mar 09 15:18:36 thats true. i can't wait Mar 09 15:27:35 what things can be done in pc mode? Mar 09 15:32:59 wow Mar 09 15:33:09 my lumia 900 went for 150 on ebay. that was far more than i thought :) Mar 09 15:43:16 :) an N9 is cheaper than an N8 Mar 09 15:44:54 yes, windows is more expensive Mar 09 15:45:02 ...and a N8 is cheaper than a N900. so? It depends on geographical areas... Mar 09 15:46:37 i just got my first usb-fine n900 for 60eur Mar 09 15:46:49 last week Mar 09 15:48:15 is this price ok? Mar 09 15:48:32 tx0h: its a bargain if the hw is fine ;) Mar 09 15:49:11 it works like my other one but with usb port :-) Mar 09 15:52:07 wow... yeah you're right Mar 09 15:52:35 but i just thought it strange since they are same models Mar 09 15:52:41 ie: N8 to N9 Mar 09 15:53:05 then again i suppose at the time they were more parallel than anything Mar 09 15:53:15 i wouldn't mind getting an n9 just to get one Mar 09 15:53:38 n8 hasnt a keyboard and only 16gb Mar 09 15:53:55 n9 doesn't have a keyboard either ;) Mar 09 15:53:56 aeh, n9 Mar 09 15:54:00 i meant Mar 09 15:54:05 yeah :( Mar 09 15:54:12 Macer: it all depends on location and sellers. I just did a simple ebay.com search now and N8 buy it now is going for even $110 while most are around the $240-$270 range. The cheapest N9 for buy it now starts at $240 Mar 09 15:54:13 that's its biggest drawback Mar 09 15:54:25 thedead1440: oh i just looked it up on amazon Mar 09 15:54:37 they should give us a N900 Mar 09 15:54:43 ebay is good for some things but amazon usually has a fair representation of the price Mar 09 15:54:53 back, with better usb soldering Mar 09 15:54:55 yeah we mortals here in Singapore have to depend on ebay since Amazon doesn't service us well :( Mar 09 15:55:17 ouch lol Mar 09 15:55:31 been to singapore. awesome place. Mar 09 15:55:48 also wasn't amazon the one where N8s were going for $200 or $250 around 8months after release? Mar 09 15:56:01 not sure i didn't keep up with them much Mar 09 15:56:15 i was just looking at 808s and N9s Mar 09 15:56:20 it was rumoured that offer helped push up N8 sales Mar 09 15:56:22 naturally N8s popped up in the N9 search Mar 09 15:56:29 singapore is, where the unpaid taxes go, right? Mar 09 15:56:30 yeah heh Mar 09 15:56:34 ah 808 that's one you should get just for that gigantic sensor Mar 09 15:56:38 tx0h: hehe Mar 09 15:56:40 tx0h: no i thin kthat's switzerland still Mar 09 15:56:45 although the swiss punked out Mar 09 15:56:49 and gave accts to the US Mar 09 15:56:53 wtf? :) Mar 09 15:56:57 singapore beat the swiss ;) Mar 09 15:57:13 after that the swiss probably lost half its banking industry Mar 09 15:57:14 hahaha Mar 09 15:57:29 its main draw was that they were strictly confidential regardless of circumstances Mar 09 15:57:40 and they caved to US politicial pressure Mar 09 15:57:44 there was an EU delegation who came down here with some warrants and notices to search account details of EU citizens and they were flatly denied and told to enjoy their stay and leave soon after :D Mar 09 15:57:56 lol Mar 09 15:57:59 that's awesome Mar 09 15:58:31 and singapore is a huge exchange...so messing with them is out of the question Mar 09 15:58:41 true Mar 09 15:58:58 you sanction singapore then the dow will drop like 10,000 points the next day lol Mar 09 15:59:01 also Singapore bailed out a number of banks so you don't mess with your paymasters ;) Mar 09 15:59:13 yeah that too haha Mar 09 15:59:32 but yeah.. singapore was awesome Mar 09 15:59:36 not nearly as bad as people make it sound Mar 09 16:00:05 like spitting gum on the ground will get your tongue chopped off or something... i mean i didn't test it but i know i didn't see much "strictness" Mar 09 16:00:07 its bad for the politics, heat and damn expensive cars Mar 09 16:00:11 it reminded me of asian vegas :) Mar 09 16:00:30 its a S$500 fine for littering although you don't get caught easily Mar 09 16:00:47 yeah but i'm not much of a litterbug heh Mar 09 16:00:54 and chewing gum was banned for >10 years. even though allowed only if you registered with your ID at point of purchase Mar 09 16:00:56 we have fines for that here too but it is never enforced Mar 09 16:01:23 lol... i didn't chew any gum ;) i just got some breath mints Mar 09 16:01:41 when i went the exchange rate was awesome too Mar 09 16:01:52 i was there in 06 Mar 09 16:02:51 ah you must have got i think 1.60 to a US dollar at that time Mar 09 16:03:01 jersey, the private isle of the queen. thats where you can put your money :-) Mar 09 16:04:05 roughly Mar 09 16:04:08 i think more than that to be honest Mar 09 16:04:10 it was almost 2:1 Mar 09 16:04:23 2:1 nah impossible Mar 09 16:04:27 lol Mar 09 16:04:35 well... i considered cost was less as well ;) Mar 09 16:04:37 the worst it has ever been was ~2003 at 1.78 Mar 09 16:05:02 its at 1.25 now btw ;) Mar 09 16:06:49 $1.66 (January 2, 2006) Mar 09 16:06:57 that's about the time i was there Mar 09 16:07:07 lol Mar 09 16:07:18 i'm surprised the S$ isn't beating the US$ Mar 09 16:07:29 we are in such bad shape Mar 09 16:07:43 nah the govt won't allow it to beat the US$; you don't want to chase away Exxon and the likes Mar 09 16:07:58 it's amazing the world keeps its head in the sand about the state of the US economy Mar 09 16:08:23 it is an absolute nightmare here .. and our govt is skewing the unemployment numbers to make things look ok Mar 09 16:08:26 it's like soviet russia Mar 09 16:08:59 they said it is down nationally to 7.6% i believe, but those numbers don't reflect the people who have run out of unemployment benefits and simply gave up on looking anymore Mar 09 16:09:02 well its the USA; everyone has interests in it not dying off so its artificially propped up in a way Mar 09 16:09:06 so in reality it could be as high as 15% lol Mar 09 16:09:22 yeah exactly. but eventually it has to come to a fall :) Mar 09 16:09:30 you can't keep acting like enron forever Mar 09 16:10:13 not only that but our government doesn't show any relation to increase in welfare entitlements vs unemployment rates Mar 09 16:10:23 meaning you don't see those who stopped looking swapping over to welfare Mar 09 16:10:47 if you were to lump it all together you'd probably have around 30-40% of the US being "poor" Mar 09 16:10:59 yeah its a sad state of affairs Mar 09 16:11:11 meaning our govt is paying for roughly that many people to survive Mar 09 16:11:18 unfortunately its the middle and lower groups who are squeezed Mar 09 16:11:28 although our version of survival is far different than real poor people in poor countries lol Mar 09 16:11:31 we have fat poor people Mar 09 16:11:42 in most other countries they'd have died off by now :) Mar 09 16:11:49 loll Mar 09 16:12:48 honestly it isn't someone filing for welfare that gets on my nerves Mar 09 16:12:55 it happens. it is meant for just that occasion Mar 09 16:13:12 it is the abuse of it where you have individuals who have the cradle to grave mentality and are born on welfare and stay on it until they die Mar 09 16:13:22 true Mar 09 16:13:28 well that happens in a welfare state Mar 09 16:13:37 things always have pros and cons Mar 09 16:13:41 i have no problem with anybody who uses welfare for a short period until the economy bounces back etc.. like i said.. it is exactly how it is meant to be used Mar 09 16:13:50 i know someone who had to do that Mar 09 16:14:43 here you don't have any welfare. All welfare is the 20% of salary you paid to your own fund monthly and the govt decides how much you can take out of it at which time of your life. So no govt welfare but your own money you are limited on its options Mar 09 16:16:11 yeah Mar 09 16:16:19 that is how social security is supposed to work here ;) Mar 09 16:16:27 that didn't work either Mar 09 16:16:45 they had a story of some old woman who put in $10,000 and has so far received like $100+K Mar 09 16:17:01 so it's just a giant ponzi scheme Mar 09 16:17:02 that's cool Mar 09 16:17:08 :D Mar 09 16:17:22 and we have a giant chunk of our population coming to age Mar 09 16:17:29 so we are about to witness a social security "run on the bank" Mar 09 16:17:30 heh Mar 09 16:17:43 Toxic incentives Mar 09 16:17:44 Road to hell and all that. Mar 09 16:17:47 so now another program that will fail :) Mar 09 16:17:57 although it has failed already anyways Mar 09 16:18:06 my favorite govt debacle is the USPO Mar 09 16:18:17 they make the post office pay for a pension that has absolutely nothing to do with postal workers :) Mar 09 16:18:33 You don't "put in" money into social secuirty Mar 09 16:18:33 it's an income transfer scheme, no more. Mar 09 16:18:33 Pension bombs are going to collapse California Mar 09 16:18:51 GeneralAntilles: yes. seems so. Mar 09 16:19:00 IL too Mar 09 16:19:13 CA and IL have giant state economies .. there is no way they should be broke.. and pensions are the reason why Mar 09 16:19:26 we have people who are able to triple and quadruple up on pensions Mar 09 16:19:52 receiving more money retired than they ever received working .. on top of other benefits and entitlements Mar 09 16:20:15 wtf? that's one seriously broken system Mar 09 16:20:50 linking payments strictly to contributions has problems. Mar 09 16:21:47 for example, what about someone who gets into a no-fault accident at age 17, and is unlikely to ever be able to work again Mar 09 16:23:40 heh yeah Mar 09 16:23:57 we had a recent article abouta guy who went to the chicago police academy and something happened.. i can't remember what Mar 09 16:24:12 he has collected nearly $500K in disability pay over the span of 10 years for being a cadet for roughly 1 week :) Mar 09 16:24:21 it is absolutely insane Mar 09 16:24:41 the problem is that the US has an overabundance of people looking to get over on the systems in place Mar 09 16:24:58 there is no honor because we have the "me now" mentality.. nobody cares about the society as a whole Mar 09 16:25:05 not even the politicians ;) Mar 09 16:25:32 waiting for this guy to pay for me to send out this lumia 900 Mar 09 16:25:46 so glad i swapped over to tmobile prepaid for $30/month.. :) Mar 09 16:39:09 SpeedEvil, biggest problem in the US is that welfare is handled at the federal level Mar 09 16:39:32 It'd be similar to the EU handling welfare for every member state Mar 09 16:39:54 It's a mess and, being government, there's no incentive to do it usefully or efficiently. Mar 09 16:40:36 Macer, problem isn't so much the people, but the systems in place that enable toxic behavior. Mar 09 16:40:42 hell, incentivize it. Mar 09 16:42:58 agreed heh Mar 09 16:43:22 working at mcdonalds for a poor mother with no baby daddy would probably mean like a $20K/year reduction in "pay" Mar 09 16:45:06 There was an interesting article recently looking at marginal tax rates for single mothers in the UK Mar 09 16:45:42 There's effective no difference in income between no job and a £50k salary Mar 09 16:46:00 Make marginally less at the £50k. Mar 09 16:52:31 ok, i made a tar of /home thru nfs. can i repartition the internal mmc now and play the tar back with no problem? Mar 09 16:57:25 hey, hey, divVerent, actually some very interesting thing you're doing Mar 09 16:57:35 was your printer connected via hostmode, or via wifi? Mar 09 16:58:23 if the latter, why not cups? One of my task for near future was to make N900 print into printers connected by USB, and cups via easy debian was the only way that seemed to work Mar 09 16:58:51 very interesting things you're messing with, when it goes to that debian things Mar 09 16:59:16 BTW to make dpkg GTFO, you need to repackage it with "faking" dependency to match maemos glibc Mar 09 16:59:49 if it works with old glibc, just pretending to need never one, it's OK to fix that dependency, and even upload it to maemo -devel Mar 09 17:00:19 as for other things, like your idea of giving wrong hash and logging root only via local ssh, quite interesting ;) Mar 09 17:00:53 but what if yoy need to launch something GUI'fied via root, for some debug purpose or whatsnot? Mar 09 17:01:43 * tx0h sighs Mar 09 17:41:17 Estel_: wifi, plugged via ethernet into the AP Mar 09 17:41:57 i do not want to waste RAM on cupsd when not using it Mar 09 17:42:54 as for launching GUI stuff via ssh: ssh -X or -Y Mar 09 18:06:46 * sixwheeledbeast puts a pizza in the oven and is reminded how great cooktimer is :) Mar 09 18:07:19 n900 - the cooking helper Mar 09 18:10:02 props to ade Mar 09 18:19:57 tx0h: lol Mar 09 18:20:20 sixwheeledbeast: you know they sell an egg timer for like $1? :) Mar 09 18:20:42 or does the n900 shut your oven off? Mar 09 18:21:29 via bluetooth Mar 09 18:21:41 i was going to say wifi but i guess bt works as well Mar 09 18:21:43 :) Mar 09 18:22:02 remotely after leaving for the store forgetting you had something in the oven heh Mar 09 18:22:21 but with IR you can boil your eggs directly Mar 09 18:25:09 i usually use the built in death ray for that.. concentrated gamma rays are far faster than IR Mar 09 18:25:36 also true Mar 09 18:29:41 Macer: you can't time three different things with a eggtimer Mar 09 18:29:53 Macer: also cooktimer is FOSS Mar 09 18:35:55 please help me with my repartitioning thing Mar 09 18:41:15 tx0h: repartitioning? Mar 09 18:41:24 yes, the mmc Mar 09 18:41:33 i like to have more for opt Mar 09 18:42:02 i made a tar of /home thru nfs. can i repartition the internal mmc now and play the tar back with no problem? Mar 09 18:43:11 tx0h: never done it but have you read http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash Mar 09 18:50:30 they don't write much about backup and play it back. i just like to know if a simple tar cf / tar xf will do the job Mar 09 18:51:28 i know how to delete/create partitions and create filesystems Mar 09 18:53:50 tx0h: yep Mar 09 18:53:53 i suggest using rescueOS Mar 09 18:54:42 tar isn't good enough? Mar 09 18:54:54 i already have a 2.8gb tar Mar 09 18:55:03 ...wat Mar 09 18:55:14 /home isn't even big enough for that Mar 09 18:55:17 what did you tar Mar 09 18:55:23 you probably tarred MyDocs too Mar 09 18:55:33 /home Mar 09 18:55:39 sure Mar 09 18:55:54 yeah, you don't want to tar /home, especially not on a live system Mar 09 18:56:02 a backup of all data on mmc (escept swap) Mar 09 18:56:05 you want to tar the contents of the second partition of the emmc, when the system isn't booted Mar 09 18:56:20 and then, *separately*, MyDocs if you want to Mar 09 18:56:54 but /home has /opt, these are all the programs i've installed Mar 09 18:57:36 and i can extract them with tar xf bla.tar home/opt home/user Mar 09 18:58:28 and sure i want my cached maptiles back in MyDocs :-) Mar 09 19:00:59 and don't i need to mkfs for the /home partition? Mar 09 19:05:32 i don't see why i can't just extract the tar file under /home Mar 09 19:08:37 * tx0h sighs Mar 09 19:25:59 because /home/user/MyDocs is a mountpoint Mar 09 19:26:51 well, but i can mount it before i extract the tar archive Mar 09 19:27:55 which files are so complicated that i can't tar them in a running environment? Mar 09 19:29:19 anything that changes at runtime Mar 09 19:29:32 can you name some? Mar 09 19:29:41 not really Mar 09 19:29:45 ~/.cache Mar 09 19:29:59 its a known issue with backups on any syste, Mar 09 19:30:02 system Mar 09 19:30:53 in ~/.cache is nothing of interest Mar 09 19:31:53 also, i'm not entirely sure there's nothing that changes in /opt Mar 09 19:33:52 i roughly looked through all dirs under /home and can't find nothing critical Mar 09 19:34:10 ok, then why the fuck are you asking us Mar 09 19:34:33 because i could oversee something Mar 09 19:35:14 like the fact that you made the image while the system was running Mar 09 19:35:38 and 'just don't do it because there is a convention' is not a real good reason Mar 09 19:36:24 i just like to know: hey, there is this or that file open, when you write the backup back you broke this and that. Mar 09 19:39:17 hm, tracker does his thing in ~ Mar 09 19:42:59 well, i think i will go for it. i guess i can't brick with that Mar 09 19:50:53 tx0h, while I would recommend doing it in live system, I sympatize with your "lets do it and see what heppens, as there is no technical proof that it won't work" Mar 09 19:51:02 (especially, that it's not my system :P) Mar 09 19:51:14 just tell us how it ended, Ok? I suspect you'll be allright Mar 09 19:51:46 for future, not including mountpoints in backup speed things up, especially, if you may have - again, in future- much more thing in mydocs Mar 09 19:51:50 well, actually i struggle with unmounting /opt Mar 09 19:51:57 no much reason to include it in casual backup Mar 09 19:52:05 during runtime of hildon? Mar 09 19:52:07 dont do that Mar 09 19:52:20 just exclude thing you dont want from backup Mar 09 19:52:26 btw, never heard of backupmenu? :P Mar 09 19:52:34 it is program that would do all of it for you Mar 09 19:52:43 sure, but i don't know if it supports nfs Mar 09 19:52:52 where do you have nfs Mar 09 19:53:05 on my desktop Mar 09 19:53:20 backupmenu doesn't have anything to do with your desktop Mar 09 19:53:27 see Mar 09 19:53:32 it backups your root and home to mydocs or sd card Mar 09 19:53:33 thats why i don't use it Mar 09 19:53:33 on device Mar 09 19:53:39 no desktop involved Mar 09 19:54:08 well, any reason for not using sd card to store backup and restore it later? ;) Mar 09 19:54:12 i don't have a sd card. and backupmenu didn't support nfs Mar 09 19:54:25 so backup to mydocs and move file to desktop, later Mar 09 19:54:53 but i have a backup already Mar 09 19:54:58 btw backupmenu support whatever you mod it to support, I've included ext4 for my personal use Mar 09 19:55:01 well Mar 09 19:55:10 so why unmounting opt for a life of you? Mar 09 19:55:21 sixwheeledbeast, managed to get rid of screw in screen? Mar 09 19:55:53 I had same problem with perfectly circular screw once, and no left drill at hand, so could share experiences if needed. Mar 09 19:57:00 tx0h, what you want to do is get backupmenu, and either do it's backup or - if you want to use one backup you have already - enable backupmenu's mass storage mode... Mar 09 19:57:25 which export all partitions, including mmcblk0p2, to your deskto Mar 09 19:57:39 there, using gparted or whatever, change partition layout Mar 09 19:58:13 if you're wise boy, you have backupmenu backup and mydocs backuped separately, so you can, instead of time-consuming resizing, just create new partition table on device Mar 09 19:58:26 with any layout you feel fancy Mar 09 19:58:35 I have 7 partitions on eMMC ;) Mar 09 19:59:11 then you just restore backup and everything is done Mar 09 19:59:31 this way I use to repartition one N900 using no desktop, just another N900 Mar 09 19:59:41 using easy debian's gparted and hostmode Mar 09 20:00:06 I even use modified backupmenu for migrating to ext4 home at the same time Mar 09 20:01:09 I replace backupmenu files with ones that have all my mkfs time and mountime optimizations, then, I modify mount-opts and genfstab.awk to support ext4 (during runtime of device with ext3, as it's important on boot only) Mar 09 20:01:20 with backupmenu i can edit the partitions of /dev/mmcblk0 ?? Mar 09 20:01:37 on my desktop? Mar 09 20:02:01 then I reboot into backupmenu, do backup (that include files for mount with ext4, as they were modified before reboot), connect device to another device and create new partition table, then, I restore backup using backupmenu Mar 09 20:02:29 10 minutes and device repartitioned + filesystem for home changed, without involving desktop at all, yet, still using nice gui tools for creating partition layout Mar 09 20:02:36 tx0h, yes Mar 09 20:02:46 and i can mount all the partitions on my desktop? Mar 09 20:03:05 well, without backupmenu you can do it to, but editing mmcblk0p2 during device runtime with X and hildon and things would be catastrophic Mar 09 20:03:09 tx0h, yes Mar 09 20:03:16 absolutely all partitions Mar 09 20:03:36 i tried that before but i just could mount MyDocs Mar 09 20:03:40 there is option "mass storage mode" for read only or for read and write in backupmenu, whoich safely exports all partitions as mass storage Mar 09 20:03:57 safely, because it's not regular maemo runtime, so you can mess with mmcblk0p2 too Mar 09 20:04:18 never heard about any problems with it, so i suspect user-error ;) Mar 09 20:04:51 also, be sure to use linux on desktoop, as windoze won't know what to do with ext home Mar 09 20:05:07 even less let you create new partition table, properly Mar 09 20:05:21 if you don't have linux dektop, use livecd (I recommend aptosid) Mar 09 20:05:24 i connected the phone via usb to my laptop and saw sdb and sdc but could only mount sdb (MyDocs) Mar 09 20:05:33 or virtualisation Mar 09 20:05:41 because you don't have microsd Mar 09 20:05:46 and sdc is microsd :P Mar 09 20:06:19 +, under linux, and using backupmenu mass storage mode, you will see things like sdb1, sdb2, sdb3... Mar 09 20:06:25 (mydocs, home, and swap) Mar 09 20:06:39 aha, but then i did not got the whole disk and even not /home itself Mar 09 20:06:48 yep. Mar 09 20:07:09 i tried fdisk on /dev/sdb and got nothing Mar 09 20:07:20 btw sdb is pure example, it may be whatever, depending on your disk's layout Mar 09 20:07:32 sure Mar 09 20:07:40 without experience with messing with it via terminal, better use gparted Mar 09 20:08:03 well, i do unix/linux since 30 years Mar 09 20:08:04 I have experience with terminal partitioning, yet still it's faster and less error prone to use good'old'gparted Mar 09 20:08:09 :) Mar 09 20:08:42 but there is even no single user mode on the phone :-) Mar 09 20:08:49 well, then you should be coding kernel for us, instead of asking about basics :P Mar 09 20:08:51 (joking) Mar 09 20:09:06 Estel_: well stuck in there but not too worried tbh Mar 09 20:09:39 sixwheeledbeast, what I used is hard screwdriver (prefferably flat), small enough to fit into screw Mar 09 20:09:46 more sharp one, the better Mar 09 20:09:47 ok, i will try the backupmenu and see if i can get the mmc on my host Mar 09 20:10:02 and *carefully* hammer it a little into screw. Doing it right, no chances to punctuate screw Mar 09 20:10:12 then, carefully, you should be able to unscrew it Mar 09 20:10:23 you need to cut a little into screw, it's not hardest one on earth Mar 09 20:10:38 most screwdrivers are harder, thankfuly, so will cut inside easily Mar 09 20:10:45 then dispose of that screw :P Mar 09 20:10:58 tx0h, sure Mar 09 20:11:35 and be supercool carefull with screwing them, they're quite soft, thats why nokia manuals say "dispose of screws" after every operation on them Mar 09 20:11:56 of course it's bullshit, and if you're carefull, screws on N900 can last eternity Mar 09 20:12:11 just use correct screwdriver and watch for rounding Mar 09 20:12:15 Estel_: not a chance of that working I tried alsorts when there was a head on the screw Mar 09 20:12:31 well, without head it should not hold anything Mar 09 20:12:44 i suspect the thread was borked during manufacture Mar 09 20:13:21 hm, never saw that on any nokia screw. Mar 09 20:13:42 btw glueing screwdriver to screw wont work for 99,99% of times Mar 09 20:14:15 correct hence not too worried, I drilled the head off after trying to glue/reverse drill/ cut slot in head Mar 09 20:14:15 even soldering it to screw won't help ;) Mar 09 20:14:31 wow, reverse drill haven't helped? Mar 09 20:14:35 I know solder would be pointless Mar 09 20:14:52 i mean it was seriously in there Mar 09 20:14:54 on slow turnings? Mar 09 20:15:07 heh Mar 09 20:15:11 yep Mar 09 20:15:31 honestly, you're right with not being worries, one screw there lacking is generally OK Mar 09 20:16:05 btw just few minutes ago i disassembled device to fix slider, as screen was shaking a little on it's own gravity Mar 09 20:16:16 after zillions of slidings Mar 09 20:16:17 the best option was cutting a slot in the top I put so much torque on the flat screwdriver half to head came off Mar 09 20:16:42 s/to/the/ Mar 09 20:16:42 sixwheeledbeast meant: the best option was cutting a slot in the thep I put so much torque on the flat screwdriver half to head came off Mar 09 20:16:52 was super-easy to fix via applying force on slider parts, to make it thickier again Mar 09 20:17:01 grr not what I meant infobot Mar 09 20:17:20 insulting tape Mar 09 20:17:24 :) Mar 09 20:18:00 s/ to / the / would work better Mar 09 20:18:13 oh did I mention before all the choas of the head getting rounded it snapped my ph0 bit Mar 09 20:18:31 heh Mar 09 20:18:46 s/ choas / chaos / Mar 09 20:18:47 sixwheeledbeast meant: oh did I mention before all the chaos of the head getting rounded it snapped my ph0 bit Mar 09 20:18:51 :) Mar 09 20:18:57 :) Mar 09 20:19:36 hence I suspect thread issue Mar 09 20:19:36 divVerent, I disable cups when not in use, afterr all, it sits in chroot Mar 09 20:19:52 so it doesn't eat memory when not used, that would be unnaceptable ;) Mar 09 20:29:47 nice, i can fdisk it now with 'w' from backupmenu Mar 09 20:29:49 :-) Mar 09 20:34:43 ok, i make a new tar backup now, fdisk the disk and write the backup back Mar 09 20:48:48 tx0h, exactly Mar 09 20:48:55 ~seen Pali Mar 09 20:49:00 pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 21h 34m 16s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer05, here is link for PR.1.3.1 fiasco image: http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin'. Mar 09 20:49:43 Estel_: i just do it on device with rescueOS nowadays :) Mar 09 20:50:24 but it is still creating new partition table via terminal Mar 09 20:50:32 of course Mar 09 20:50:36 why wouldn't i want to use fdisk Mar 09 20:50:57 much more error prone than gui tools. Of course, with terminal, you may do it all on single device, not two. Even with backupmenu, not necessary rescueOS Mar 09 20:51:27 well, It's quicker to divice emmc into 7 partitions of exactly same size as I want, using gparted ;) Mar 09 20:51:28 well, i still have /home and /home/user/MyDocs in one tar file :-p Mar 09 20:51:41 :-) Mar 09 20:51:42 but your mydocs is empty Mar 09 20:51:45 if made via backupmenu Mar 09 20:51:52 just a mountpoint Mar 09 20:51:54 nope, i mounted it Mar 09 20:51:59 well Mar 09 20:52:17 if you feel it fancy ;) Mar 09 20:52:43 it's so much faster than doing it over wireless Mar 09 20:53:02 for me this way home backups grow unnecessary in size - if you fckd smth on device and want to restore, you restore home, doesn't need to touch mydocs Mar 09 20:53:05 but my other n900 has no usb yet. Mar 09 20:53:48 you are right but normaly i don't do backups :------) Mar 09 20:54:00 thats the admins task Mar 09 20:54:04 harhar Mar 09 20:54:08 DocScrutinizer05, what was that command to tell something to someone, when he arrive? (not about factoid). And how to use it properly, so it would tell it once, on one channel, not everywhere, where that person appears, and infobot is present? Mar 09 20:54:36 considering the ammount of bleeding edge things I install, I do backups all the time Mar 09 20:55:33 yepp, you are very active with the n900 and i welcome it! Mar 09 20:55:51 i saw some hardware mods as well Mar 09 21:03:18 well you can't backup after a failure... I was made up I had a backup when ribbon died Mar 09 21:04:19 ok, /home has 8gb now Mar 09 21:04:24 funtastic Mar 09 21:11:14 tx0h: "single user" mode is backupmenu's shell or rescueOS's shell Mar 09 21:11:24 or the recovery console in bootmenu, i suppose Mar 09 21:11:37 ...yes, recovery console in bootmenu is the closest thing to single user mode Mar 09 21:11:56 i'm done. ty Mar 09 21:12:19 i would still install recovery console and rescueOS in u-boot Mar 09 21:12:42 but for the other n900 its good to know Mar 09 21:21:22 tx0h, glad you've made it :) Mar 09 21:21:43 yea, I do hardware mods to, including one major that I hope to finish before dying of old age Mar 09 21:22:04 Estel_: alu body? Mar 09 21:22:15 yepp, i just hope i can fix the usb on the other one Mar 09 21:22:18 = repalcement body for N900, that would allow us to utilize all hardware possibilities N900 give Mar 09 21:22:47 kerio, yea - alu, or, as for my personal one of choice, wooden :P Mar 09 21:22:56 don't be silly Mar 09 21:23:11 what, some exotic wood looks fantastic Mar 09 21:23:25 the screen part would be the stock one, right? Mar 09 21:23:29 yea Mar 09 21:23:29 metal on wood doesn't look good Mar 09 21:23:37 water resistent magnesia aloy would be nice Mar 09 21:23:42 depends on wood, I plan to use black one :P Mar 09 21:23:57 ebony? Mar 09 21:24:09 moving parts wouldnt be water reistant, but rest assured, when I ever finish this project... Mar 09 21:24:27 there is someone who would pay me few k dollars for deep underwater resistant body Mar 09 21:24:35 for N900 Mar 09 21:24:43 bioshock, ffs :P Mar 09 21:24:53 doubt it Mar 09 21:25:07 Estel_: how do you make the slider water resistant? Mar 09 21:25:09 why so, people have different use cases Mar 09 21:25:11 wow Mar 09 21:25:21 kerio, haven5 though about it yet, especially for higher pressures Mar 09 21:25:22 he could use a camera bag Mar 09 21:25:25 but everything is doable Mar 09 21:25:39 now for higher pressure (camera bag) Mar 09 21:25:45 s/now/not/ Mar 09 21:25:45 Estel_ meant: not for higher pressure (camera bag) Mar 09 21:26:06 because for such a niche market like underwater photography Mar 09 21:26:21 kerio, no joking, I would first check what submarines use for moving parts :P Mar 09 21:26:22 i doubt the first thing that comes to someone's mind is "oh yeah.. my ancient n900..." Mar 09 21:26:34 especially for deep diving Mar 09 21:26:44 I dount it's about submarine phoptography Mar 09 21:26:46 that requires a "pressure bag" heh Mar 09 21:27:01 btw, N900 is quite OK :P Mar 09 21:27:06 for underwater photo Mar 09 21:27:19 saw some really nice underwqater video in HD made by N900 Mar 09 21:27:38 the n900 doesn't even do hd without some type of overclocking hackery i thought Mar 09 21:27:47 ...then utilize replacement body's external antenna conector, and communicate with world like submarines does Mar 09 21:28:01 which i am sure is awesome for the n900 while it is stuck inside an airtight bag to prevent it from imploding :) Mar 09 21:28:07 Macer, you're years away of knowing anything about what maemo can do Mar 09 21:28:09 ;) Mar 09 21:28:19 uhm Mar 09 21:28:36 hd recoring is quite common now, thanks to freemangordon's work Mar 09 21:28:37 is it upscaled SD ? :) Mar 09 21:28:43 of course not. Mar 09 21:29:05 i was joking Mar 09 21:29:13 can't see it.. there has to be hackery involved :) Mar 09 21:29:27 wasn't sur, considering all this "maemo is stuck" bullshit you're selling us every 2 days :P Mar 09 21:29:42 it is Mar 09 21:29:46 heh Mar 09 21:29:51 hackery as in using some files from harm and slight overclocking of DSP Mar 09 21:30:12 DocScrutinizer05 said it himself, "THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR MAEMO!!!!" Mar 09 21:30:13 heh Mar 09 21:30:19 btw, do you know that hildon desktop successfuly run on arch on N900? :P Mar 09 21:30:23 haha Mar 09 21:30:48 I wouldn't listen to DocScrutinizer05 when it comes to things where emotions are involved Mar 09 21:30:50 either way tho.. why would someone use an n900 for diving? :) i mean i guess maybe some maemo nut Mar 09 21:31:00 to said it at least and in non-offensive way :P Mar 09 21:31:16 no way. he was right tho. :) Mar 09 21:31:34 because android suck and there is still nothing better than N900 in the market, when it comes to super mobile computer with all computer functionalities? Mar 09 21:31:42 he fought tooth and nail to explain why maemo wasn't going to run on any new hardware.. then finally blurted out the brutal truth Mar 09 21:31:59 I would gladly use something with 1GB RAM, or more, but there is no such thing ;) Mar 09 21:32:02 hm. depends on what you consider "computer functionalities" Mar 09 21:32:30 not only functionalities - doing what desktop can do Mar 09 21:32:46 ask yourself why android suck on that big time Mar 09 21:33:01 depends on what you mean again Mar 09 21:33:46 for the most part with the right apps android can pretty much do anything maemo can although it woudl do it slower on better hardware Mar 09 21:33:54 but nowadays the hardware is so retardedly fast that doesn't matter Mar 09 21:33:56 cmon, it's all thing about so-called smartphone vs computer Mar 09 21:34:33 for the most part android require you to pay for funny "apps", and surely won't let me use debian on it ;) Mar 09 21:34:34 sure.. but... i dunno.. i think if i hooked up my tf101 to something hdmi.. .. i would be able to fulfill my "computer needs" on it Mar 09 21:34:53 i mean as far as a user goes Mar 09 21:35:09 depend on computer needs you have - for me it's about real computer, i.e. all that things like upstream kernel, X, proper hostmode etc Mar 09 21:35:10 obviously i probably won't be able to run it as an android server :) but who would do that to their phone heh Mar 09 21:36:00 i think those types of things are more a problem with the manufacturer of the phone than android Mar 09 21:36:07 and achieving anything on android is super-pita Mar 09 21:36:27 like the most amount of users for a mobile OS? ;) Mar 09 21:36:28 well, some of them, yes, but lack of being real foss linux system is android fault Mar 09 21:36:42 what is the maemo share nowadays heh Mar 09 21:36:48 with not-so-upstream kernel, and completely non GNU things above it Mar 09 21:36:53 those things are great but they end without demand Mar 09 21:37:17 well, I really don't care about what thousand of flies use to sit at. Mar 09 21:37:19 if only maemo started off with a functional store and lame free apps like the talking mouse and fart app :) Mar 09 21:37:23 and you know what I mean Mar 09 21:37:45 no i know exactly what you mean.. you mean the functionality of the n900 is better than newer hardware but i don't blame google for that Mar 09 21:37:56 if people stoppped buying phones because of no usb host mode Mar 09 21:37:59 it would be added ;) Mar 09 21:38:06 I care about my needs for device ;) personally, I also thing that cliche for real linux device is quite big, and jolla may discover it they wo't screw it Mar 09 21:38:25 plus.. didn't the n900 require a bit of hackery to get the host mode working? Mar 09 21:38:29 today, many people with simillar needs for real computer are stuck on unfriendly android, not because they like it ah so much Mar 09 21:38:49 http://hacknmod.com/hack/run-an-android-nexus-one-on-usb-host-mode/ Mar 09 21:39:02 dont blame google? lately, they have removed ad-hoc wifi support from android Mar 09 21:39:18 because some idiots may fail to know when they're MITM'ed Mar 09 21:39:18 on a nexus one Mar 09 21:39:21 heh Mar 09 21:39:34 + all this drm shit Mar 09 21:39:39 uhm Mar 09 21:39:42 I'll leave it to ubuntu :P Mar 09 21:39:54 didn't they put it back in the latest android? Mar 09 21:41:22 no idea Mar 09 21:41:37 btw I think you're a little wrong about that invisible market hand Mar 09 21:41:52 if you say so... demand dictates supply Mar 09 21:41:52 as in "if people would like this functionality, it would be added" Mar 09 21:42:03 not necessary. Take gaming market as example Mar 09 21:42:07 * Macer points at symbian and maemo and meego as examples Mar 09 21:42:21 people wish good mature RPG's or old style adventures, yet no big company make it Mar 09 21:42:31 then, new things like kickstarter appear... Mar 09 21:42:50 and one dude get few millions in a week just to make a game, before even drawing concept Mar 09 21:43:05 later, wasteland 2 is also financed before even started being manufactured... Mar 09 21:43:27 there is shitload of things like bad marketing and internal power games (Nokia) Mar 09 21:43:57 N900 was biggest success that they expected, and would be 10 times bigger if they would actually want it to be success Mar 09 21:44:05 meh. the bottom line was they were losing money because apple and google kicked them in the balls and people liked flashy interfaces more than functionality Mar 09 21:44:07 instead of worrying how it will affect symbian Mar 09 21:44:18 plain and simple heh Mar 09 21:44:29 they didn't start making symbian anything worthwhile until belle Mar 09 21:44:31 frankly, I blame it rather about people not even knowing about alternatives, due to terrible marketing from Nokia Mar 09 21:44:36 and by then they needed an MS bailout Mar 09 21:44:49 and so with it went any other mobile OS they had Mar 09 21:45:06 nokia didn't move fast enough when it could have due to top of the hill syndrome Mar 09 21:45:14 they thought they'd be able to quickly buy their way out of problems Mar 09 21:45:33 anyway, ammount of people starting doing own things, foss software (whole Linux!) on their own, all those 3D printers etc, tell us that "demand dictates supply" being too much a "mental shortcut" Mar 09 21:45:35 then came apple with the iphone.... that was bad enough... then came google with a much anticipated mobile OS :) Mar 09 21:45:44 for some extent it does, but not always and not in every matter Mar 09 21:46:08 for all extent it does... nobody will donate money to the world for tech ;) not willingly at least Mar 09 21:46:23 btw look at raspberry Pi and people who buy it... no single company wanted to do thing like that, too ;) Mar 09 21:46:23 if we could pick and choose what we spend our taxes on there would be no DoE in the US lol Mar 09 21:46:36 well, Oi don't agree Mar 09 21:46:37 pi had great demand tho Mar 09 21:46:46 mostly for its ability to use xbmc Mar 09 21:46:50 if nobody bought it Mar 09 21:46:53 it wouldn't exist Mar 09 21:46:54 :) Mar 09 21:46:58 most people just doesn't see sense on taxes, due to not seeing/knowing at they're used to, or seeing them wasted Mar 09 21:47:06 if people stop buying it.. it becomes obsolete Mar 09 21:47:16 this is basic economics Mar 09 21:47:37 *shrug* I see something more to drive things that I use in my life, than "if others buy itn Mar 09 21:47:39 *shrug* I see something more to drive things that I use in my life, than "if others buy it" Mar 09 21:47:43 sorry Mar 09 21:47:56 but you seem to say things that some big companies would like people to belive ;) Mar 09 21:48:18 have you never considered, that your way of thinking may be a little indoctrinated, in favor of someone else's interest? Mar 09 21:49:24 lol! Mar 09 21:49:36 if you think so... i say things like that because that is really how things work :) Mar 09 21:49:49 well, everything is relative Mar 09 21:50:06 100 years before, many things were belived to "just work like that" in favor of indujstralism Mar 09 21:50:13 two great war changed many things Mar 09 21:50:33 300 years ago, for many people, king was touched by god himself, and it was "how things work" Mar 09 21:50:36 The market can be malfuncional. Mar 09 21:50:41 always in someone's interest ;) Mar 09 21:50:46 exactly. Mar 09 21:51:04 SpeedEvil: i wouldn't say malfunctional :) Mar 09 21:51:07 Look, for example at lcds. Mar 09 21:51:34 Where can I buy a 4:3 display? Or a 140dpi desktop display Mar 09 21:51:37 market could have fix everything magically in theoretical examples of ideal world Mar 09 21:51:40 the market just sometimes has an awkward way of correcting itself Mar 09 21:51:45 They are essentially unavailable. Mar 09 21:51:47 where decisions would be made with 100% knowledge of subject Mar 09 21:52:04 SpeedEvil: and this is the exact reason I am still using my 2001 laptop Mar 09 21:52:08 not to mention that the too big to fail banks are ridiculously oversized and the manner in which our government creates money is retarded lol Mar 09 21:52:13 4:3 screen ;) Mar 09 21:52:16 it doesn't include armies of lobbyists, etc Mar 09 21:52:26 but from the basic manufacturer/consumer standpoint Mar 09 21:52:34 if people want it they buy it Mar 09 21:52:40 so make more of it Mar 09 21:52:43 if they don't make less Mar 09 21:52:50 this holds true regardless of wall street Mar 09 21:52:52 and always has Mar 09 21:52:57 Well, I think that in world where consumer avariness rises, and things like crowd-funding or self-manufacturing becomes more common, many things are going to look brighter Mar 09 21:53:01 People are not always presented with stuff they want to buy Mar 09 21:53:12 Macer, no. People choose only from available things Mar 09 21:53:23 even if they would like something very different. Mar 09 21:53:33 Estel_: n900 was widely available Mar 09 21:53:40 :) Mar 09 21:53:42 For LCDs, for example, there is a truly massive investment needed to go into making new panels. Mar 09 21:53:47 it require more than market - like passion, or beliving in ideas, to create something different and bring it into market. Mar 09 21:53:53 sales in comparison to the G1 for instance Mar 09 21:54:01 the G1 outsold the N900 like 100:1 heh Mar 09 21:54:02 Macer, and it was more success than Nokia would like to, at that time Mar 09 21:54:10 same for, lets say, nokia pureview Mar 09 21:54:19 they did everything they could to discourage buyers Mar 09 21:54:24 Macer: n900 was not backed up by Nokia Mar 09 21:54:31 Estel_: :nod: Mar 09 21:54:33 oh here we go with the nokia conspiracy theories :) Mar 09 21:54:40 its well known fact Mar 09 21:54:42 nopt conspiracy Mar 09 21:54:46 Macer: this is not conspiracy Mar 09 21:54:48 and after that it was learned that nokia, was in fact, responsible for 9/11 Mar 09 21:54:54 many nokia employess officially confirmed most of it Mar 09 21:55:01 Several months in, things cooled dramatically. Mar 09 21:55:03 ex-employees ;) Mar 09 21:55:05 many "former" i'm sure Mar 09 21:55:09 lol Mar 09 21:55:15 Stupid stuff like the store not working. Mar 09 21:55:20 and after that they said the CEO has sex with interns and men? Mar 09 21:55:23 Macer: remeber elop saying that no matter what, n9 will be the last meego device? Mar 09 21:55:29 well, fact is that for some countries, there were 8 nokia pureviews available Mar 09 21:55:39 i like my e7.. loved my n900 Mar 09 21:55:43 and people paid 5-6 times the price on ebay for them Mar 09 21:55:45 And people being actively discouraged from launching software for n900. Mar 09 21:55:49 but i can't buy into the nokia made themselves fail on purpose theory haha Mar 09 21:55:54 conspiracy of ebay buyers? ;) Mar 09 21:55:54 Macer: remember in which countries was n9 available in? Mar 09 21:56:08 freemangordon: finland... and ... greenland? Mar 09 21:56:11 :) Mar 09 21:56:14 Macer: You're supposing 'Nokia' is one thing. Mar 09 21:56:15 Macer, dont you realize how bad decisions, human errors, power games, bad management etc can sinkl a company? Mar 09 21:56:21 and bulkgaria and khazahstan Mar 09 21:56:25 *bulgaria Mar 09 21:56:41 khazahstan!! Mar 09 21:57:03 as for N900, it's said from many different sources, that they were concerned how it will affect sumbian (which was leader, then) Mar 09 21:57:31 btw remember petitions to have N9 in some country? Mar 09 21:57:42 and lack of support to N900 in many areas ;) Mar 09 21:57:43 Macer: sorry for the typos, it is kazakhstan Mar 09 21:57:54 yeah Mar 09 21:57:59 i thought there was another k in there somewhere Mar 09 21:58:01 compare it to success of Pi, and interest in vivaldi, even given fact that the latter never appeared Mar 09 21:58:20 sorry but that sounds like a comp out for supporters to explain why their device is already obsolete with no new models out :) Mar 09 21:58:33 I'm quite certain that niche for "geek mobile computers" is not lesser than for overpriced apple shit Mar 09 21:58:36 like a year after mine when i had just had my n810 abandoned Mar 09 21:58:39 It's internal politics. Mar 09 21:58:44 just to have the n900 abandoned lol Mar 09 21:58:49 the shit just wasn't selling Mar 09 21:58:52 people are dying for anything that promises FOSS mobile computer Mar 09 21:58:53 symbian was probably their best bet Mar 09 21:59:04 inmcluding some cons Mar 09 21:59:04 Estel_: maemo was anything but Mar 09 21:59:06 lol Mar 09 21:59:13 i used to come in here Mar 09 21:59:19 listening to disgruntled devs all day Mar 09 21:59:21 Macer: ooh, and symbian was abandoned because of the market? Mar 09 21:59:25 Maemo was probably the closest we've gotten so far. Mar 09 21:59:42 freemangordon: sure. nokia lost too much money. struck a deal with MS Mar 09 21:59:44 Macer, I think, OTOH, that you're lacking knowledge about maaany events and technical decisions... Mar 09 21:59:46 It's a hell of a lot more linux-like than android. Mar 09 22:00:00 Estel_: if you say so Mar 09 22:00:05 substituting it with corporate indoctrinated speech about everything lookins as it should with their other products Mar 09 22:00:09 Fremantle that is, especially. Mar 09 22:00:13 yeah. and now canonical going the google way Mar 09 22:00:19 i know that hildon was amazingly closed while being marketed as a "OPEN PLATFORM" which was nothing more than a trend/fad back then Mar 09 22:00:28 something to market on Mar 09 22:00:31 until the iphone came out Mar 09 22:00:35 and destroyed them :) Mar 09 22:00:39 Macer: hildon is as open as it can get Mar 09 22:00:43 I don't remember hildon being advertised almost at all ;) Mar 09 22:00:43 then the G1... just to add insult to injury Mar 09 22:00:48 on fremantle at least Mar 09 22:00:50 maemo Mar 09 22:00:52 and hildon is indeed open Mar 09 22:00:56 my mistake heh Mar 09 22:01:16 although Mar 09 22:01:19 you can't blame nokia Mar 09 22:01:22 they didn't own the omap ip :) Mar 09 22:01:32 frankly, you're sitting on irc, without any idea how buzzing maemo community is, 5 years after last device release ;) Mar 09 22:01:45 lol Mar 09 22:01:46 Macer: you know that most of the fremantle(closed parts) was ready to be opensourced by may-june 2010 Mar 09 22:01:47 ? Mar 09 22:01:49 I just don't buy your thing about market rulling our woprld ;) Mar 09 22:01:51 The lack of the omap IP is essentially zero to do with the platform issues Mar 09 22:01:53 did they get the death ray enabled? Mar 09 22:01:53 world* Mar 09 22:02:09 Would it have been nice - yes. Mar 09 22:02:19 freemangordon, interesting, I haven't been informed about that Mar 09 22:02:21 SpeedEvil: no? so there weren't issues getting certain things working on their "open" device like say.. the modem? :) or running different Operating systems like nitdroid? Mar 09 22:02:37 Macer: iirc stskeeps was the repo master or something Mar 09 22:02:42 Is it relevant, compared to the platform lockdown due to the twisty maze of daemons - no. Mar 09 22:02:45 * Macer looks around Mar 09 22:03:07 brb Mar 09 22:03:17 if the device was really opened like it was marketed... they'd be selling them out Mar 09 22:03:22 skype had a ton of N900s to sell :) Mar 09 22:03:27 and anybody can get skype Mar 09 22:03:28 heh Mar 09 22:03:42 Macer: n900 was not marketed Mar 09 22:03:42 In many ways other OSs that can run on hardware do not interest me. Mar 09 22:03:48 Network effects are huge Mar 09 22:03:53 freemangordon: how much marketing has the pi gotten? Mar 09 22:03:57 they seem to be selling them hand over fist Mar 09 22:04:06 Macer: Lots Mar 09 22:04:16 lots? LOL Mar 09 22:04:19 It just happened to be free advertising, done very, very well. Mar 09 22:04:21 yeah i see pi commercials all day long :) Mar 09 22:04:27 Macer: pi has had lots of marketing hence popularity Mar 09 22:04:27 Macer, quite a lot, and N900 was released on 2008 Mar 09 22:04:36 Macer: do you know what the real purpose of Pi is? Mar 09 22:04:38 things look different with buyer awareness in 2012 Mar 09 22:04:52 freemangordon: sure. an engineering board Mar 09 22:04:52 Estel_: end of 2009 Mar 09 22:04:52 btw pi is something different that it was planned to be Mar 09 22:04:57 Macer: no Mar 09 22:04:58 a lot of people bought pi just because it was cheap Mar 09 22:05:00 learning board Mar 09 22:05:04 i guess Mar 09 22:05:06 for kids Mar 09 22:05:07 instructional educational Mar 09 22:05:11 including UK goverment support Mar 09 22:05:12 Pi is basically completely boring hardware. Mar 09 22:05:13 i bought pi to run xbmc on it Mar 09 22:05:20 SpeedEvil: yes it is Mar 09 22:05:23 There is nothing whatsoever interesting about the hardware. Mar 09 22:05:25 the only reason people got a pi Mar 09 22:05:28 and it is so successful Mar 09 22:05:32 is because of xbmc :) Mar 09 22:05:33 The only interesting thing is the volume, and the price Mar 09 22:05:36 lets be honest heh Mar 09 22:05:36 SpeedEvil: but it is playing 1080p :) Mar 09 22:05:37 bullshit, frankly Mar 09 22:05:37 also XBMC, at least initially Mar 09 22:05:40 Estel_: exactly and on the news all the time plus in UK schools all over now Mar 09 22:05:48 haven't got to installing it yet Mar 09 22:05:51 if pi didn't run xbmc and run 1080p video at $40 Mar 09 22:06:00 it would be gone like the n900 :) Mar 09 22:06:00 most people bought pi as cheap dev platform for strange projects ;) Mar 09 22:06:03 no longer produced Mar 09 22:06:05 have a 3D printed case for it lying in Prague though :) Mar 09 22:06:08 Macer: I have actually seen primetime TV on the Pi - before it launched Mar 09 22:06:10 Pi cant run DVD Mar 09 22:06:14 mpeg2 Mar 09 22:06:28 Estel_: wtf uses mpeg2 nowadays? Mar 09 22:06:30 many complains about it, but people haven't stop buying ti because of that Mar 09 22:06:30 lol! Mar 09 22:06:37 is it 1993 again? Mar 09 22:06:39 3/4 of home cinema consumers Mar 09 22:06:40 they added mpeg2 support recently Mar 09 22:06:52 M4rtinK, nice to know Mar 09 22:06:53 M4rtinK: is it licensed? Mar 09 22:07:04 it is paid Mar 09 22:07:05 sure Mar 09 22:07:09 like 3$ ? Mar 09 22:07:10 3/4 of home cinema consumers? Mar 09 22:07:16 M4rtinK: o, thanks Mar 09 22:07:18 use mpeg.....2? Mar 09 22:07:19 *ok Mar 09 22:07:25 sure, do you think that most consumers use blueray already, lol? Mar 09 22:07:32 uhm Mar 09 22:07:35 DVD's are stillmost common Mar 09 22:07:39 I'll get an official link Mar 09 22:07:39 i guess if you count the poor countries you might be correct Mar 09 22:07:47 then you live in fake world of what corporations would like you to think :P Mar 09 22:07:49 but in real countries i don't see the need for discs at all Mar 09 22:08:04 sure, include all europe in poor countries Mar 09 22:08:09 Macer: beagleboard could do XMBC long before Pi, where is beagleboard now? Mar 09 22:08:12 Macer: hehe, seems I live in a *real* country then :D Mar 09 22:08:13 and half usa Mar 09 22:08:14 http://www.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ Mar 09 22:08:30 sixwheeledbeast: i don't remember it being able to handle 1080p/dts at full speed via smb Mar 09 22:08:35 blueray is very popular, but people still own dvd+ that they dont plan to throw out Mar 09 22:08:37 sixwheeledbeast: i'd have bought one if it did Mar 09 22:08:41 Macer: we need nor DVDs neither Blueray Mar 09 22:08:49 so the only remaining problem should be the 10bit encodes that are recently showing up :) Mar 09 22:09:02 marketing...marketing = pi's sucess Mar 09 22:09:09 i disagree Mar 09 22:09:10 anyway, Macer, you know what the funny thing is about your way of thinking? Mar 09 22:09:15 also standard definition DVB-T is MPEG2 IIRC Mar 09 22:09:18 i can't see a show about "wow! kids can learn to solder" Mar 09 22:09:20 Macer: Are you in the UK? Mar 09 22:09:23 it sounds like an infomercial Mar 09 22:09:24 lol Mar 09 22:09:32 3/4 of people talking here now got mobile deivce with super-duper hardware Mar 09 22:09:35 1 GB of ram Mar 09 22:09:37 etc Mar 09 22:09:41 gathering dust ;) Mar 09 22:09:45 Macer: In the UK, the media coverage of the Pi was quite astonishing Mar 09 22:09:50 while N900 is still in daily use Mar 09 22:09:54 Macer: Pi is the thing to be used in UK Schools for PC Mar 09 22:09:54 Lumia 800 :D Mar 09 22:10:06 freemangordon: IT's basically not. Mar 09 22:10:11 freemangordon: that would be awesome Mar 09 22:10:14 Other than in small numbers. Mar 09 22:10:16 i considered making pi workstations Mar 09 22:10:17 M4rtinK, dvb-t is mpeg2 in germany, for example Mar 09 22:10:18 SpeedEvil: this is what I know Mar 09 22:10:26 Poland and uk have it mpeg4 Mar 09 22:10:30 probably same here (CZ) Mar 09 22:10:41 M4rtinK, I thought about N950 Mar 09 22:10:47 but lumia or whatever Mar 09 22:10:56 my family members used to use androids Mar 09 22:10:58 I use my N950 for Nemo Mar 09 22:11:13 all switched to N900, just due to noticing what I can achieve with it Mar 09 22:11:19 quite a lot foster than N900 for it Mar 09 22:11:21 from tech-hippies to my mother Mar 09 22:11:33 SpeedEvil: from wikipedia - "The Raspberry Pi is a credit-card-sized single-board computer developed in the UK by the Raspberry Pi Foundation with the intention of promoting the teaching of basic computer science in schools.[" Mar 09 22:11:36 dvb-t was originally mpeg2 only Mar 09 22:11:46 freemangordon: right - intention. Mar 09 22:11:53 and it still, is, h264 is a hack using parts of dvb-t2 specification Mar 09 22:11:54 SpeedEvil: aah, ok :) Mar 09 22:11:57 marketing and knowledge :) people don't know, most of the times, that possibility of having real mobile computer in pocket, is real Mar 09 22:12:06 because big companies make smartphones, not computers Mar 09 22:12:37 sixwheeledbeast: beagleboard had no marketing Mar 09 22:12:37 freemangordon: the actual number in schools is really small - simply as the teachers aren't there. Mar 09 22:12:56 sixwheeledbeast: and beagleboard costs 4x as much, and bb has no hdmi Mar 09 22:13:00 jacekowski: exactly Mar 09 22:13:02 if Nokia would properly use Community interest and achievement with N900, and cooperate with opening things that could be open, they would rule the market ages ago Mar 09 22:13:41 not to mention being sucessfuly with new devices, and loved as FOSS friendly company ;) Mar 09 22:13:41 cost is a small factor I agree Mar 09 22:13:42 Macer: and marketing wise Mar 09 22:13:49 Macer: i've heard about rpi, everywhere Mar 09 22:14:02 thing is that invisible hand of market isn't so powerful as some people would like it to be Mar 09 22:14:15 especially compared to personal interests Mar 09 22:14:29 like the no longer produced n900? :) Mar 09 22:14:30 Macer: local electronic shop has them in stock, and you could find a lot stuff about it on the internet Mar 09 22:14:31 Network effects matter. Once you have a million boards out there, you've (for some values of won) won. Mar 09 22:14:47 Macer, well, I don't see how it related to what I've just said Mar 09 22:14:54 Even if 99.9% of people do boring stuff with them, you've got a really vibrant core community Mar 09 22:14:54 Macer: only place you can find out about beagleboard was #maemo Mar 09 22:15:13 I think I heard about it on #edev Mar 09 22:15:15 But, ... Mar 09 22:15:26 #beagleboard ? Mar 09 22:15:27 thankfully, self-manufacturing changes many things Mar 09 22:15:39 if you were to ask people year ago about rpi or bb Mar 09 22:15:43 nobody would have heard about bb Mar 09 22:15:49 Estel_: Unfortunately, self manufacturing can be murderously expensive Mar 09 22:15:49 has 13 people on it :) Mar 09 22:15:52 and at least few would have heard about rpi Mar 09 22:15:58 M4rtinK: #beagle Mar 09 22:16:02 SpeedEvil, 10 times cheaper than it was 3 years ago Mar 09 22:16:03 Estel_: unfortunately one cannot self-manifacture everything Mar 09 22:16:07 23:16 -!- Irssi: #beagle: Total of 162 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 162 normal] Mar 09 22:16:13 oh :) Mar 09 22:16:14 although generally, I agree Mar 09 22:16:18 Estel_: No, i's not Mar 09 22:16:30 freemangordon: not yet :) Mar 09 22:16:31 SpeedEvil, tell me more, I own CNC machine myself, self made :P Mar 09 22:16:38 I know about costs etc Mar 09 22:16:42 http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt Mar 09 22:16:55 I know how much 3D printer was costing 3 years ago Mar 09 22:16:55 M4rtinK: 3d printers? :) Mar 09 22:16:58 SpeedEvil: 0.1% core community is not enough to make profit Mar 09 22:17:00 and how cheaply can it be done now Mar 09 22:17:04 freemangordon: yep Mar 09 22:17:09 btw by self-manufacturing I mean whole idea Mar 09 22:17:21 every conference I attended in the last year had at leas one :D Mar 09 22:17:25 3d printers are rather different. Mar 09 22:17:27 *least Mar 09 22:17:32 like, people funding games they like via kickstarter, in ammounts of n 000 000 dollars per game Mar 09 22:17:46 yeah, but already quite useful :) Mar 09 22:17:49 SpeedEvil, ah, sure, electronic is still fckn expensive Mar 09 22:18:05 software is cheap to develop Mar 09 22:18:10 may change with 3d printers being able to print circuits ;) Mar 09 22:18:16 n900 is 12 layer board iirc Mar 09 22:18:17 jacekowski: is it? Mar 09 22:18:20 ]]#########]' Mar 09 22:18:29 freemangordon: compared to hardware Mar 09 22:18:30 jacekowski: (cheap SW) Mar 09 22:18:36 freemangordon: where you need SW + HW Mar 09 22:18:54 jacekowski: hmm, last time I've check that was on the opposite Mar 09 22:18:57 and with HW if you get things wrong, you can't fix them Mar 09 22:18:58 I think he mean everything, including projects etc Mar 09 22:19:05 jacekowski: Plus wierd flex stuff. Mar 09 22:19:23 you end up with 1000s of boards that can be thrown away Mar 09 22:19:24 wut, 12 layers really? Mar 09 22:19:34 sixwheeledbeast: yes Mar 09 22:19:40 as said, look at gaming company. EA and other "evil empire" bullshit companies are spltting castrated games... Mar 09 22:19:44 I can believe it. If you want to get dense BGAs on both sides of the board. Mar 09 22:19:57 bb is 12 layers Mar 09 22:19:58 While witcher sell millions copies, starting from almost nothing Mar 09 22:20:14 widelands 2 is entirely finances via kickstarter before even getting produced Mar 09 22:20:31 and i talk about 2 000 000 dollars, not 100 bucks Mar 09 22:20:33 anyways, hardware is much harder and expensive to produce Mar 09 22:20:50 imagine HW company releasing hardware with bugs like you get in software Mar 09 22:20:53 it's kind of self-manufacturing to, based on trust... crowdfunding, as they call it Mar 09 22:21:00 jacekowski: TI? Mar 09 22:21:11 sending an "update" doubles their costs Mar 09 22:21:18 jacekowski: like simcity? :) Mar 09 22:21:19 jacekowski: AMD, Intel... Mar 09 22:21:20 heh Mar 09 22:21:29 freemangordon: like what? Mar 09 22:21:34 fpdiv bug in intel ages ago Mar 09 22:21:35 freemangordon, but when talking about HW cost, you need to include design Mar 09 22:21:37 and it did cost them Mar 09 22:21:38 producing machines Mar 09 22:21:40 etc Mar 09 22:21:42 amazon quit sending out simcity heh Mar 09 22:21:46 not net cost of board Mar 09 22:22:03 i don't understand why they'd make simcity a constantly connected mmo anyways Mar 09 22:22:04 AMD and phenom, intel and pentium fdiv bug, TI and all ARM erratas Mar 09 22:22:04 and test runs Mar 09 22:22:48 freemangordon: the real question is.. would they have even said anything if they weren't discovered? Mar 09 22:22:57 jacekowski: I am not actually arguing, just sayng that shit happens on HW side too Mar 09 22:22:57 freemangordon, + look at what we have with linux/GNU, and how young is open hardware Mar 09 22:23:02 it's all because of costs Mar 09 22:23:31 freemangordon: i'm saying that HW bug costs a lot more to fix, so there is a lot less of those Mar 09 22:23:37 Open hardware designs were around in 1980 Mar 09 22:23:39 hardware is more complicated to self develop, thus more costly Mar 09 22:23:40 i don't know. i think hardware is a bit different heh Mar 09 22:23:45 Or earlier Mar 09 22:23:49 the problem with awesome open hardware is china Mar 09 22:23:52 look at openpandora Mar 09 22:23:53 they will replicate it to death Mar 09 22:24:00 and knock it off as well Mar 09 22:24:04 SpeedEvil, you're right, I mean ammount of influence open software have, over open hardware Mar 09 22:24:12 https://www.dragonbox.de/en/16-pandora Mar 09 22:24:21 https://www.dragonbox.de/en/main-consoles-and-upgrades/112-pandora-1ghz.html Mar 09 22:24:27 Open software was big before the IBM breakup Mar 09 22:24:27 539 eur for arm based device Mar 09 22:24:29 hardware is way harder not to say impossible fo individuals to produce Mar 09 22:24:34 It only really closed after Mar 09 22:24:44 Macer: isn't the point that it's open so there no point copying? Mar 09 22:24:47 while company like sony sells their psv for half of that Mar 09 22:24:53 and they still make profit on it Mar 09 22:25:10 freemangordon: There is a nutter in ##electronics DIYing his own large FPGA boards, and making his own chips (or starting on that route) Mar 09 22:25:11 ...and people still love pandora due to being as open as it gets :) Mar 09 22:25:32 modRana work on OpenPanodra :) Mar 09 22:25:36 freemangordon: azonberg - awesome effort. Mar 09 22:25:40 *works Mar 09 22:25:42 SpeedEvil, I wonder how he achieved it? Mar 09 22:25:42 Estel_: and they've sold like 5 of those Mar 09 22:25:52 Estel_: probably not even that much Mar 09 22:25:53 jacekowski, what? Mar 09 22:25:56 Pandora was all sold Mar 09 22:25:59 Estel_: toaster oven Mar 09 22:26:00 even before geting alive Mar 09 22:26:08 then next batches were create 3 or 4 times Mar 09 22:26:09 how many did they sell in total Mar 09 22:26:32 IDK, as for project with 0 as in 0 marketing, they sold thousands afaik Mar 09 22:26:42 they published info some time ago Mar 09 22:26:51 don't want to lie, but it was 5k total? Mar 09 22:27:06 and consider how ridicolously overpriced it is Mar 09 22:27:24 SpeedEvil, hm Mar 09 22:27:31 sony sold 100s as many PSVs in one day Mar 09 22:27:33 I wonder how expensive toaster oven is to DIY Mar 09 22:27:34 ;) Mar 09 22:27:40 160k in one day Mar 09 22:27:45 jacekowskop, comparing grapples to oranges? Mar 09 22:27:49 Estel_: shouldn;t be that nuch :) Mar 09 22:27:55 *much Mar 09 22:28:01 Estel_: pandora is sold as a gaming hardware Mar 09 22:28:03 Estel_: I am actually planning on DIYing a toaster oven, because existing ones annoy me. Mar 09 22:28:25 jacekowski, it is like I would finish my alu body replacement project, and start to compare sales with mugen covers or otterboxes Mar 09 22:28:27 Estel_: Energy efficiency sucks, and they take way too long to come up to temperature. Mar 09 22:28:31 How do i delete the amazon icon from my n900 ? Mar 09 22:28:45 Estel_: i finally got backup menu installed Mar 09 22:28:55 Estel_: How were you planning to do the antannae? Mar 09 22:29:04 SpeedEvil, interesting... I need to finish my cnc related projects, then build 3D printer, then toaster oven sounds like natural next... :P Mar 09 22:29:29 SpeedEvil, connecting it to parts of body that are alu and separate from rest of body Mar 09 22:29:37 although, visually, monolitic Mar 09 22:29:58 you know, re-doing build in antennas, just using bigger and better due to it touching air on outside Mar 09 22:30:01 Estel_: you mean seprate sections of the case to form the antennae? Mar 09 22:30:03 potential iphone 4 issue? Mar 09 22:30:05 yea Mar 09 22:30:14 That's going to be a whole heap of pain Mar 09 22:30:24 SpeedEvil, tested it all in 4nec and now doing real life tests and fixes every few days Mar 09 22:30:28 it is Mar 09 22:30:40 The 'best' way to approach it would probably be to do really good simulations. Mar 09 22:30:44 4nec? Mar 09 22:30:46 but something *** made me tol promise alu body :P Mar 09 22:30:53 antenna simulator Mar 09 22:30:58 Ah. Mar 09 22:31:04 open source one ;) Mar 09 22:31:14 well, personally I see wood body much better Mar 09 22:31:17 For BT/wifi/all frequencies of cellular? Mar 09 22:31:22 if you use correct wood and coloring Mar 09 22:31:28 SpeedEvil, yea Mar 09 22:31:36 but cellular is separate one Mar 09 22:31:49 FM? :) Mar 09 22:31:58 s/cellular/gps/ Mar 09 22:31:59 Estel_ meant: but gps is separate one Mar 09 22:32:06 no, I'm not doing one for fm receiver .P Mar 09 22:32:10 Oh, I forgot GPS Mar 09 22:32:14 headset is working ok Mar 09 22:32:25 Estel_: what about TX? Mar 09 22:32:36 freemangordon, of course working, but this one is less picky Mar 09 22:32:42 iirc it is not shared with BT Mar 09 22:32:51 works better than vanilla even just being connected to any alu brick outside Mar 09 22:32:57 no, fm is separate Mar 09 22:33:00 fm tx Mar 09 22:33:15 Estel_: got backupmenu finally installed Mar 09 22:33:22 thank you for all your help Mar 09 22:33:26 for sure fmtx in replacement body will work better than vanilla :) Mar 09 22:33:32 XDS2010, nice to hear, saw it Mar 09 22:33:36 i really appreciate it Mar 09 22:33:37 I'm glad you've made it Mar 09 22:33:57 Estel_: what are your thoughts here ? should i sell ? Mar 09 22:33:59 freemangordon, BTW, doing separate connector for external antenna for fmtx is easy too Mar 09 22:34:07 :-/ im so torn! Mar 09 22:34:12 :( Mar 09 22:34:17 XDS2010, you've lost me on that one? sell what? Mar 09 22:34:24 my n900 Mar 09 22:34:37 the iphone is so cool Mar 09 22:34:39 if it's malfunctioning, sure, and buy used one that works :) Mar 09 22:34:42 lol? Mar 09 22:34:56 if you think iphone is cool, then you may think about selling N900 indeed Mar 09 22:35:00 its not malfunctioning i need the money man Mar 09 22:35:07 so why asking me? :P Mar 09 22:35:13 ask yourself what you want Mar 09 22:35:20 i am so torn Mar 09 22:35:21 I would sell iphone for sure ;) Mar 09 22:35:35 sell iphone ? Mar 09 22:35:51 if you need money... ;) Mar 09 22:35:56 Estel_: the thing is im just now realizing just how good the n900 is Mar 09 22:36:01 look, I'm not good advisor here, for me iphone is pathetic Mar 09 22:36:16 what is the question :D Mar 09 22:36:18 XDS2010, maybe you've made first step into bigger, more beautiful world :P Mar 09 22:36:24 i didn't know you could schedule events based on if or not the keyboard and lens cover where opened Mar 09 22:36:43 Sysaxed: weather i should sell my n900 Mar 09 22:36:44 you can do with ith basically anything that could be done with linux desktop pc Mar 09 22:36:53 XDS2010, oh why? Mar 09 22:37:00 I tyink Sysaxed was asking rhetorically :) Mar 09 22:37:08 Sysaxed: i want an iphone i wanna be cool Mar 09 22:37:18 XDS2010, are you kidding me? Mar 09 22:37:25 no Mar 09 22:37:26 I feel like being trolled by someone on purpose ):< Mar 09 22:37:35 Estel_, exactly Mar 09 22:37:41 Estel_: im not trolling man Mar 09 22:37:47 but I'm afraid he is serious, and that is worse Mar 09 22:37:52 im so torn why are you mocking me ? Mar 09 22:38:07 freemangordon, btw, bulding own fm transmitter with 1W power is super easy and cheap... Mar 09 22:38:30 Sysaxed: im just now realizing just how good the n900 is Mar 09 22:38:34 but idea of having N900 with external antenna connected to FMTX and pirate radio station is still cool to much to skip it ;) Mar 09 22:38:43 i can do things with it i can't do on a iphone Mar 09 22:38:48 definitelly Mar 09 22:38:52 XDS2010: orly? Mar 09 22:38:56 for example.. multitasking Mar 09 22:38:58 choose your own path through the force :P Mar 09 22:39:02 real one Mar 09 22:39:10 freemangordon: huh? Mar 09 22:39:20 he was ironic, you know :) Mar 09 22:39:26 :) Mar 09 22:39:31 XDS2010, it's just weird for us to compare n900 to iphone Mar 09 22:39:32 here, fact that you can do more things with N900 is quite natural Mar 09 22:39:36 Sysaxed: well multitasking on a phone is kinda passe Mar 09 22:39:45 0_o Mar 09 22:39:51 Sysaxed: why ? it has some similar hardware Mar 09 22:39:56 I'm going to eat something, definitelly Mar 09 22:40:02 the GPU is similar Mar 09 22:40:09 0_o aaa! Mar 09 22:40:21 Hello everybody Mar 09 22:40:23 XDS2010, hardware does not matter Mar 09 22:40:28 I have a problem with my n900 D: Mar 09 22:40:40 iweron: shoot! Mar 09 22:40:46 ..not to low Mar 09 22:40:47 we're glad that now with iphone Mar 09 22:40:50 XDS2010, well it matters.. Iphone lacks fm transmitter, infrared port and a keyboard.. Mar 09 22:40:53 :P Mar 09 22:40:53 s/now/not/ Mar 09 22:40:54 Estel_ meant: we're glad that not with iphone Mar 09 22:41:48 Sysaxed: the IR on the n900 is only tx, fm will probably be done later with a hack, and the keyboard is really passey for me Mar 09 22:42:01 Sysaxed: i have BlinQ for IR Mar 09 22:42:32 fm wull be done? wtf are you talking about? Mar 09 22:42:35 will* Mar 09 22:42:52 with a hack? what? what? Mar 09 22:42:56 hey, you feel bad having keyboard? interesting case. Mar 09 22:43:03 * Estel_ start taking notes Mar 09 22:43:11 Sysaxed: you should lead with , It has a lighted keyboard, FM and RDS support OOTB, all movements with the device can be keymapped. And its well designed Mar 09 22:43:16 the problem with battery. In fact there is broken wifi in my n900, so I have to unload wifi drivers, otherwise I will get a kernel panic. But wifi module also consumes a lot of battery power, so my phone discharges every 6-8 hours Mar 09 22:43:18 ...and /me brings microscope for dna analysis Mar 09 22:43:23 this is weird Mar 09 22:43:29 what to do? =\ Mar 09 22:44:03 iweron, I don't udnerstand a single thing from that Mar 09 22:44:09 one problem at a time please Mar 09 22:44:17 what's wrong with wifi? Mar 09 22:44:21 Estel_: i have big fingers it actually hurts to type with the keyboard Mar 09 22:44:22 dunno Mar 09 22:44:55 iweron: if you don't have any user data on the device you could flash Mar 09 22:45:24 which is probably what im going to need to do soon too Mar 09 22:45:38 XDS2010, it wont help Mar 09 22:45:44 iwron: like this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85701 Mar 09 22:45:45 the main problem: my device discharges from the full battery to 0% in 6 hours Mar 09 22:45:58 Sysaxed: are you going to think less of me if i jump ship ? Mar 09 22:46:06 :-/ Mar 09 22:46:16 XDS2010, just answered your question Mar 09 22:46:17 acually wlan never worked Mar 09 22:46:21 suggestion* really Mar 09 22:46:21 s/iwron:/iweron/ Mar 09 22:46:22 sixwheeledbeast meant: iweron like this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85701 Mar 09 22:46:32 iweron: reflash Mar 09 22:46:38 already Mar 09 22:46:39 5 times Mar 09 22:46:44 ok, stop reflashing Mar 09 22:46:45 Sysaxed: really WHY!!!!! Mar 09 22:46:51 :D Mar 09 22:47:01 iweron: hardware problem Mar 09 22:47:03 sucks 2 be u Mar 09 22:47:05 i love you guys? Mar 09 22:47:17 :( Mar 09 22:47:30 like this Mar 09 22:47:30 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81760 Mar 09 22:47:36 the same problem Mar 09 22:47:46 Sysaxed: i mean look where the hell blackberry ended up. They are using Qtx for pete sake Mar 09 22:47:51 but, I can live without a wifi since 3G works Mar 09 22:48:00 Thats some of the same systems that are used in the space shuttle Mar 09 22:48:07 XDS2010, oh come on, I just don't care :) Mar 09 22:48:23 the main problem is that battery lives only 6 hours Mar 09 22:48:26 to hell with you then! Mar 09 22:48:29 :P Mar 09 22:48:37 "the doctor is: 04here01" Mar 09 22:48:45 iweron: so buy a new battery Mar 09 22:48:50 Doctor doctor! Mar 09 22:48:51 oh, this channel isn't +c? Mar 09 22:48:54 I have 4 batteries Mar 09 22:48:59 should i sell !? Mar 09 22:49:01 one original nokia Mar 09 22:49:04 iweron: combine them Mar 09 22:49:08 =\ Mar 09 22:49:18 it's actually possible :) Mar 09 22:49:25 kerio, what a suggestion... Mar 09 22:49:33 but really, but a serious battery Mar 09 22:49:36 like a polarcell Mar 09 22:49:39 ok how do i delete all my data without flashing ? Mar 09 22:49:39 *buy Mar 09 22:49:49 I change batteries every 6 hours and use another nokia phone to charge discharged ones Mar 09 22:49:51 every bit of user data Mar 09 22:50:03 kerio, what about carrying a diesel generator with you Mar 09 22:50:35 no seriously... Mar 09 22:50:42 iweron, Mar 09 22:50:44 iweron: what the fuck dude Mar 09 22:50:48 powertop output please Mar 09 22:50:52 kerio: get a solio or a energizer to go kit, the black one Mar 09 22:50:53 iweron: dmsg, powertop, top; outputs? Mar 09 22:50:56 ~spank kerio Mar 09 22:50:56 maybe I should buy a tritium battery Mar 09 22:50:57 * infobot bends kerio over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on kerio's pasty white buttocks. Mar 09 22:51:14 i have the ENG kit its slick and very stylish Mar 09 22:51:18 kerio why making jokes olf him instead of asking for top powertop output Mar 09 22:51:26 ^ Mar 09 22:51:35 XDS2010, sell both phones and go rethink your life Mar 09 22:51:51 come back when you stop thinking that having this or that device model makes you cool or not Mar 09 22:52:25 Estel_: but i wanna be with the cool kids :( Mar 09 22:52:29 :P Mar 09 22:52:36 and stop trolling me :P Mar 09 22:52:38 XDS2010, there was a nice thread about it! Mar 09 22:52:48 ? Mar 09 22:52:53 link? Mar 09 22:53:01 I made some tests with powertop and compared them to my friend's outputs, I have less wakeups and 97% - 250 MHz Mar 09 22:53:29 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70390 Mar 09 22:53:31 you don't want to be at 250mhz Mar 09 22:53:32 pastebin the full output "sudo powertop" Mar 09 22:53:34 you want to be at 0 Mar 09 22:54:02 ok, wait a min Mar 09 22:54:02 screen off and flight mode pref. Mar 09 22:54:19 oh and not on charge :rolleyes: Mar 09 22:54:56 kerio, should I change configs for min freq? Mar 09 22:55:05 you should stay with stock Mar 09 22:55:08 no Mar 09 22:55:49 stock is 250-600 Mar 09 22:55:53 minmax Mar 09 22:56:03 so there is no 0 Mar 09 22:56:14 INCREDIBLE!!!!! >> and stop trolling me :P << Mar 09 22:56:26 iweron: yes but 0 is idle Mar 09 22:56:51 how to save powertop output? Mar 09 22:57:19 oh, Doc is here, do we have a psychiatrist around? :P Mar 09 22:57:22 iweron: powertop > powerto.log Mar 09 22:57:23 redirect stdout? Mar 09 22:57:43 iweron, we know better than there is 0 Mar 09 22:57:47 just do powertop Mar 09 22:57:54 and zerobin it Mar 09 22:58:13 else as freemangordon said, or via copy and paste from terminal to zerobin Mar 09 22:58:13 >/bin/zero ? Mar 09 22:58:18 :P Mar 09 22:58:26 LMGTFY zerobin :P Mar 09 22:59:34 powertop|pastebinit; won't work due to timeout, eh? Mar 09 22:59:47 ~lmgtfy Mar 09 22:59:48 rumour has it, lmgtfy is http://lmgtfy.com/ Mar 09 22:59:59 infobot need pluging to lmgtfy'ing phrases Mar 09 23:00:04 ~lmgtfy zerobin Mar 09 23:00:05 * infobot thinks you should look here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=zerobin Mar 09 23:00:08 o Mar 09 23:00:15 this is it! Mar 09 23:00:18 ~botsnack Mar 09 23:00:18 aw, gee, Estel_ Mar 09 23:02:24 fsckng lmgtfy tried to place ~150 cookies to me Mar 09 23:02:47 I have "cookies: ask" Mar 09 23:02:51 >:-/ Mar 09 23:03:15 DocScrutinizer05: is there an easy way to wipe out my user data off my n900 Mar 09 23:03:20 ? Mar 09 23:03:28 sure, do a full reflash Mar 09 23:03:46 without doing a flash Mar 09 23:03:58 honestly, if you want better answer, ask better more detailed question Mar 09 23:04:01 i want to keeyp apps Mar 09 23:04:16 DocScrutinizer05: you're right my bad Mar 09 23:04:25 so what exactly do you want to delete? Mar 09 23:05:09 XDS2010: got to settings, in the menu there is a button "clear" Mar 09 23:05:12 $userdata is a really fuzzy term Mar 09 23:05:20 stuff like wifi passwords, preferences, anything personal really Mar 09 23:05:44 try it, no idea what it will do, but I guess it will clean contacts, mails, messages and such Mar 09 23:05:53 make a backup with builtin backup app, then try what freemangordon suggested Mar 09 23:06:43 odds are it will break your system, so in the end you'll reflash anyway, and then restore apps from backup Mar 09 23:06:48 DocScrutinizer05: freemangordon i made a backup with Backupmenu (bootmenu) with the slide open keyboard on boot option and also backed up the my docs folder Mar 09 23:07:31 then you got nothing to lose when you try whatever you feel might do it for you Mar 09 23:07:43 since you got a *full* beckup Mar 09 23:08:05 check what's your kernel though Mar 09 23:08:27 BM backups can only get restored to same kernel they were taken under Mar 09 23:08:41 undertaken?? ;-P Mar 09 23:09:16 * DocScrutinizer05 feels like an undertaker Mar 09 23:10:13 http://pastebin.com/yN7xDGvH Mar 09 23:10:15 powertop Mar 09 23:10:17 XDS2010, this guy use N900: Mar 09 23:10:19 http://deus-ex.com.pl/files/deusex.jpg Mar 09 23:10:28 whats the default unlock code ? Mar 09 23:10:31 and this guy use iphone: Mar 09 23:10:32 http://sixgun.org/files/leisure-suit-larry.jpg Mar 09 23:10:37 which one you want to be? :P Mar 09 23:10:43 XDS2010, 12345 Mar 09 23:10:48 could figured that yourself Mar 09 23:11:37 iweron, your powertop looks ok Mar 09 23:11:40 try deleting all widgets Mar 09 23:11:44 and check if that helps Mar 09 23:11:50 with power usage Mar 09 23:11:55 ok looks like it worked Mar 09 23:11:57 if not, maybe your battery is eol? Mar 09 23:12:01 Already done Mar 09 23:12:05 I desktop Mar 09 23:12:08 no widgets Mar 09 23:12:11 one* Mar 09 23:12:13 iweron, no idea wtf Mar 09 23:12:34 iweron: how old are your batteries? Mar 09 23:12:35 hardware issue? you said you've reflashed Mar 09 23:12:45 yeah Mar 09 23:12:50 iweron, get bq27200.sh Mar 09 23:13:02 make sure you have bq27x00_battery module unloaded Mar 09 23:13:07 then invoke from terminal Mar 09 23:13:12 bq27200.sh 5 Mar 09 23:13:31 (I need to finally finish my reqrite of bq27200.sh to work with bq27x00_battery module in loop mode) Mar 09 23:13:35 no, wait Mar 09 23:13:42 do bq27200.sh 30 actually Mar 09 23:13:48 then disable everything Mar 09 23:13:53 and loks device for 5 mins Mar 09 23:14:02 then paste output Mar 09 23:14:04 original nokia is 2 year old, another one is half of a year, and two others ~ one year old Mar 09 23:14:11 next, do same thing without disabling things Mar 09 23:14:21 i.e normal connection Mar 09 23:14:24 phone locked, etc Mar 09 23:14:27 output here Mar 09 23:14:34 iweron: where did you get those "new" ones? are they original? Mar 09 23:14:43 last bt not least, do same while keeping screen on, but not doing much other things Mar 09 23:14:46 and paste output Mar 09 23:14:49 iweron: that powertop looks pretty good Mar 09 23:14:58 it will tell us your standby, idle, and screen on power usage Mar 09 23:15:06 if that is ok, then you got crappy battery Mar 09 23:15:10 like 400 mAh Mar 09 23:15:35 bq27200.sh in loop 30 will tell us your real power usage every 30 seconds Mar 09 23:15:38 nokia is original, others are bought from shops and ebay. i tested them on other n900 device, they worked for 3-4 days Mar 09 23:15:52 iweron, so do as I've described Mar 09 23:16:01 Do I already have this bq27200 on my phone or I have to dw it? Mar 09 23:16:07 either something is sucking power without affecting powertop output, or hardware issue Mar 09 23:16:49 What do you mean disable everything? Flight mode? Mar 09 23:16:51 DocScrutinizer05, mind sharing him link to bq27200.sh? Mar 09 23:16:54 yea Mar 09 23:16:59 for 1st test only Mar 09 23:17:04 ~bq27200 Mar 09 23:17:05 extra, extra, read all about it, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 Mar 09 23:17:16 also, install i2c-tools from devel Mar 09 23:17:22 bq27200.sh is in same folder Mar 09 23:17:27 as bq27200.sh require i2cget Mar 09 23:18:10 my wifi doesn't work - hw issue and now I don't have 3G Mar 09 23:18:14 :) Mar 09 23:18:16 maybe deb? Mar 09 23:18:19 sucking power without powertop noticing it? CMT! Mar 09 23:18:32 switch to flight mode Mar 09 23:18:40 ~mirros Mar 09 23:18:47 ~mirrors Mar 09 23:18:47 mirror is, like, http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new Mar 09 23:21:09 iweron: run `powertop;bq27200.sh 30 ` on normal device, with no charger attached, no special modes, just screen locked, for ~5 minutes. then pastebin the output Mar 09 23:21:34 okay Mar 09 23:31:39 ? Mar 09 23:33:02 now running it Mar 09 23:43:56 should I stop bq27200 manually? Mar 09 23:44:07 ^C Mar 09 23:44:13 к Mar 09 23:44:16 kk Mar 09 23:44:41 if you want answer about #evice with issues, do those 3 simple tests I've requsted Mar 09 23:45:23 powertop tell about cpu related things, and many other hardware parts may suck power, not necessarily waking cpu Mar 09 23:45:56 but first, we need to filter out it being anything from system side, or hardware problem Mar 09 23:46:32 bq with normal settings is ready Mar 09 23:46:35 bq27200.sh will tell us your power draw, as low as it goes. If something suck mAh without bq27200.sh showing it, it will be at level of hardware short Mar 09 23:46:45 on device with issues? Mar 09 23:46:48 and define normal Mar 09 23:46:51 screen on/off? Mar 09 23:46:54 off Mar 09 23:47:00 3G on/off? cellular? Mar 09 23:47:12 connected or just logged in to network Mar 09 23:47:17 no other things working? Mar 09 23:47:37 3g off, just logged to network, flight off, wifi off/unloaded Mar 09 23:47:41 ok, now flight mode and everything disabled, and last one will be with screen ON and connections normal Mar 09 23:47:43 OK Mar 09 23:47:50 okay Mar 09 23:48:47 we will compare state where it should eat 3-4 mA (all disabled), 7-10 mA (just logged in to gsm, but screen and connections off) and one with screen on (100-200 mA, depending on if you keep screen on by touching it, or by things like simple brigthness widget - the latter consumes less) Mar 09 23:49:30 if we notice unusual high usage on any of those modes - especially twp with screen off - then we will know that something is sucking power and bq27x00 hardware know about it, but cpu doesn't Mar 09 23:50:04 otherwise, it's either battery fault (but you said that those batteries work ok on another N900), or hardware failure on that N900, some power leak in hardware level Mar 09 23:50:08 actually Mar 09 23:50:34 it is even worse that it could be Mar 09 23:50:51 http://pastebin.com/sma442h6 Mar 09 23:51:37 anyway how to turn on flight mode? Mar 09 23:52:09 power key-> offline mode Mar 09 23:52:17 k Mar 09 23:52:34 iweron: hmm? Mar 09 23:52:55 what's worse and why and worse than what? Mar 09 23:53:07 look at his pastebin and bq usage Mar 09 23:53:19 90 mA idle device, just connected to gsm and screen off Mar 09 23:53:19 ktnx I did Mar 09 23:53:20 yeah Mar 09 23:53:31 *shrug* Mar 09 23:53:46 very high usage, and reason for battery living only 6h Mar 09 23:53:53 bs Mar 09 23:53:53 but, finish other tests too, pls Mar 09 23:53:55 I see Mar 09 23:53:59 ofc Mar 09 23:54:01 will be easier to filter out issue Mar 09 23:54:03 ~1300/90 Mar 09 23:54:05 14.444444444444 Mar 09 23:54:13 DocScrutinizer05, - actual usage Mar 09 23:54:23 14h if he never touches his device Mar 09 23:54:34 should be ~1200/10 Mar 09 23:54:37 but I use it every day Mar 09 23:54:38 at least thise Mar 09 23:54:40 yes Mar 09 23:54:45 and 5000h when he recharges in between Mar 09 23:54:47 alot Mar 09 23:55:01 iweron, it's ok, but 90 mA when idle is very bad Mar 09 23:55:10 actually, it shows 80-90% at full charge Mar 09 23:55:11 no, it's not Mar 09 23:55:15 yes, it is. Mar 09 23:55:23 it is :C Mar 09 23:55:28 especially if bq does measure every 30 seconds, as i requested Mar 09 23:55:30 it's actually quite within limits with GSM enabled Mar 09 23:55:39 DocScrutinizer05, no way Mar 09 23:55:46 unless you're with 1p% signal strenght, it's not Mar 09 23:55:50 and particularly with WLAN enabled but not associated Mar 09 23:56:05 Sysaxed: aha Mar 09 23:56:19 Estel_: signal strengh is vastly irrelevant Mar 09 23:56:29 traffic is relevant Mar 09 23:56:32 bullshit, as he have wlan disabled and damaged, and, more importantly, proper wifi not associatedd and set to scan every 15 min or so shouldnt result in this Mar 09 23:56:53 never, ever, saw such usage for my device with gsm logged in Mar 09 23:56:59 heckp, even with connected to gprs Mar 09 23:57:02 carrier could have no NAT/firewall and lots of ping or other inbound traffic keeping cmt busy Mar 09 23:57:06 It seems that wifi module unload didn't help Mar 09 23:57:14 should be 7-10 mA in ideal case Mar 09 23:57:30 well, I saw such usage.. when something was keeping my cpu alive at high frequencies Mar 09 23:57:38 but that's not the case Mar 09 23:57:45 lol, wlan damaged Mar 09 23:57:48 iweron, btw, your wifi, how it got damages? It's very rare thing to break Mar 09 23:57:56 who diagnosed that? YOU? Mar 09 23:58:02 DocScrutinizer05, read backscroll Mar 09 23:58:13 and hope that your libido will get lower during doing that ;) Mar 09 23:58:21 nah, too much of your noise in backscroll Mar 09 23:58:30 *shrug* so gtfo Mar 09 23:58:33 stop it, guys Mar 09 23:58:46 Estel_: gtfo yourself Mar 09 23:58:53 I can help you if you need Mar 09 23:58:59 guys :C Mar 09 23:59:09 http://pastebin.com/Lm9qNXHi Mar 09 23:59:14 flight mode on Mar 09 23:59:20 screen off Mar 09 23:59:25 It's a first time I see that shit on such a friendly irc channel :\\ Mar 09 23:59:53 iweron: sorry i'm out, ask Mr Estel_, I'm sure he'll tell you extremely nifty way to make sure your wlan is damaged Mar 10 00:00:03 Sysaxed, then you havent seen what DocScrutinizer05 is capable off :P Mar 10 00:00:08 of, even Mar 10 00:00:11 iweron, thx Mar 10 00:00:20 Estel_, he was very friendly Mar 10 00:00:29 try to disagree with him ;) Mar 10 00:00:45 for example about feasibility of using sqlite database to store map tiles :P Mar 10 00:00:48 ok, enough. Mar 10 00:00:55 well, I do disagree that 90 mA usage is ok... XD Mar 10 00:00:57 checking pastebin Mar 10 00:01:29 as i suspected Mar 10 00:01:34 ~90 mA in flight mode Mar 10 00:01:40 = same as with gsm connected Mar 10 00:01:47 DocScrutinizer05, whatever, but what do you think is it? Mar 10 00:01:59 iweron: sorry i'm out, ask Mr Estel_, I'm sure he'll tell you extremely nifty way to make sure your wlan is damaged Mar 10 00:02:03 some shit is eating your power Mar 10 00:02:11 =_= Mar 10 00:02:18 Estel_, maybe it's a good idea to try it out with sim card inserted? Mar 10 00:02:22 btw see my question about how your wlan got damaged Mar 10 00:02:30 Estel_, or maybe run the test as fast as he could after boot? Mar 10 00:02:30 Sysaxed, he have sim card as i understand it? Mar 10 00:02:40 without* Mar 10 00:02:45 fast after boot wont help, n900 may be busy rightly Mar 10 00:02:47 I have no idea how Mar 10 00:02:54 iweron, symptomes Mar 10 00:03:00 Estel_, even if it's busy, it wont drain 90 mA Mar 10 00:03:02 symthomes, even Mar 10 00:03:11 Sysaxed, active cpu can drain so much Mar 10 00:03:18 if busy Mar 10 00:03:31 the thing is his powertop shows 80-92% in idle Mar 10 00:03:37 yet 90 mA power draw in idle Mar 10 00:03:42 iweron, no batterypatch? Mar 10 00:03:52 no stupid undervolting settings? Mar 10 00:04:01 or messing with frequency governor? Mar 10 00:04:07 but you said you've reflashed... Mar 10 00:04:15 * Estel_ scratches head Mar 10 00:04:27 iweron: go back to stock kernel Mar 10 00:04:27 Estel_, if wlan is broken, and if he's disabling it each time after boot, maybe it's a good idea to reboot and see what happens without disabling it? Mar 10 00:05:00 when I got a phone it was already damaged. Symptomes are: when I open connections menu my system crashed (seems to be kernel panic and the only way is reboot device removing the battery) Mar 10 00:05:52 Estel_, I installed batterypatch, but it didn't help and cpu usage was always 500MHz, so I removed it Mar 10 00:05:53 iweron: even do a full reflash to stock maemo5, do *no app installs* and then check again Mar 10 00:06:05 BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA Mar 10 00:06:09 ~crappatch Mar 10 00:06:10 i guess speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] Mar 10 00:06:15 DocScrutinizer05, but I did it already 5 times Mar 10 00:06:19 well, SpeedEvil isn't meant to help with battery usage Mar 10 00:06:21 and always the same thing Mar 10 00:06:22 speedpatch i mean Mar 10 00:06:26 sorry SpeedEvil :P Mar 10 00:06:26 then you did it wrong 5 times Mar 10 00:06:28 6-8 hours and out Mar 10 00:06:41 iweron, installed anything after reflash? Mar 10 00:06:49 reflash was full fiasco image? Mar 10 00:06:57 how do you disable wifi module? Mar 10 00:07:16 nope, clear system. Mar 10 00:07:23 modprobe -v -r wl12xx Mar 10 00:07:25 iweron: you evidently even got powerkernel installed Mar 10 00:07:31 now yes Mar 10 00:07:34 try with installing only i2ctools and bq27200.sh after reflash (and rootsh, for example) Mar 10 00:07:42 if it still eats 90 mA idle Mar 10 00:07:59 then it's a hw issue Mar 10 00:08:06 I should try Mar 10 00:08:09 but anyway Mar 10 00:08:13 if it is hw issue Mar 10 00:08:18 aww, Estel_ and DocScrutinizer05 are finishing each other's phrases now :3 Mar 10 00:08:22 it's something fishy in hardware. If, OTOH, fresh system with only 3 things installed (rootsh, i2ctools, and bq27200.sh) works ok, then it is system Mar 10 00:08:42 the only way is to throw away my phone ) Mar 10 00:08:48 ~batterypatch Mar 10 00:08:49 from memory, speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] Mar 10 00:08:49 hehe, next step, we will start to feed each other like birds Mar 10 00:09:11 DocScrutinizer05, but he said he havent used it Mar 10 00:09:16 just tried once if it help Mar 10 00:09:24 but not after all reflashes Mar 10 00:09:43 idk wtf is with his system that it reboots when trying to search for wifi's, even after reflash Mar 10 00:09:50 syslog output needed, maybe? Mar 10 00:10:05 what is so broken in hardware, that device reboots when trying to use wifi Mar 10 00:10:07 reflash done wrong Mar 10 00:10:21 device doesn't reboot itselt Mar 10 00:10:27 he bought this device as one with wifi broken, and it persist after reflash'es Mar 10 00:10:30 you said it does? Mar 10 00:10:58 sorry Mar 10 00:10:59 when I got a phone it was already damaged. Symptomes are: when I open connections menu my system crashed (seems to be kernel panic and the only way is reboot device removing the battery) Mar 10 00:11:04 it just starts to behave strangely Mar 10 00:11:07 define "systen crashes" Mar 10 00:11:08 for example Mar 10 00:11:08 iweron: do a *full* reflash Mar 10 00:11:15 * Estel_ nods Mar 10 00:11:18 including vanilla emmc Mar 10 00:11:24 nothing works in terminal, I can not open any app in menu Mar 10 00:11:27 etc Mar 10 00:11:38 and don't install anything other than i2ctools, bq27200.sh and rootsh. Check power usage then Mar 10 00:11:41 hey Mar 10 00:11:48 I understand Mar 10 00:11:49 he said he disable wifi just by unloading module Mar 10 00:11:57 more things are required to disable wifi properly Mar 10 00:12:08 maybe something repeatedly polls for absent module? Mar 10 00:12:14 wlancond? Mar 10 00:12:35 before you reflash, install advanced interface switcher Mar 10 00:12:43 reboot, and use it to disable wifi Mar 10 00:12:49 then compare idle device power usage Mar 10 00:13:12 if nothing looks better, reflash and do as adviced with installing only 3 things. And by reflash, I mean vanilla emmc too Mar 10 00:13:19 I have a button to disable wifi Mar 10 00:13:37 in system tray or how is it called Mar 10 00:13:38 if that doesn't help, hardware of wlan is borked and i bet it have smth to do with power usage Mar 10 00:14:18 Global version? Mar 10 00:14:37 http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/firmware/ Mar 10 00:15:07 If it wouldn't help I will remove wifi chip :D Mar 10 00:17:43 which might make it worse, unless you terminate the dangling connections with proper resistors to correct voltage level Mar 10 00:18:10 digital electronics hate dangling lines Mar 10 00:18:42 particularly cmos Mar 10 00:20:23 iweron, yea, global Mar 10 00:20:38 I donwloaded it from here http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/firmware/ Mar 10 00:25:34 ~pr1.3 Mar 10 00:25:34 extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update Mar 10 00:25:53 ~combined Mar 10 00:26:56 ~combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 10 00:26:57 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Mar 10 00:27:26 ~pr1.3.1 is see combined Mar 10 00:27:27 DocScrutinizer05: okay Mar 10 00:27:39 ~pr131 is see combined Mar 10 00:27:39 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Mar 10 00:31:21 Reflashed Mar 10 00:31:42 oh that was quick Mar 10 00:33:15 maybe too quick Mar 10 00:33:48 its ok Mar 10 00:33:54 both flashing COMBINED and flashing VANILLA shall take at least 30s Mar 10 00:34:34 hm, I have to install debs but Mar 10 00:34:46 if I open file manager the system will crash Mar 10 00:34:47 lol Mar 10 00:34:49 you have to install what? Mar 10 00:35:04 rootsh Mar 10 00:35:14 i2ctools Mar 10 00:35:33 okay, I will unload wifi then install them and reboot Mar 10 00:35:36 system crash on opening FM is an indication that something is terribly wrong Mar 10 00:35:53 wifi is wrong Mar 10 00:36:07 actually I don't know if it will crash Mar 10 00:36:08 no use in proceeding with *anything* before that issue got sorted Mar 10 00:36:09 I will try Mar 10 00:36:30 huh? Mar 10 00:36:38 [2013-03-10 01:34:46] if I open file manager the system will crash Mar 10 00:37:19 well, if he turns his wifi off it'll be ok Mar 10 00:37:26 okay Mar 10 00:37:34 opened FM Mar 10 00:37:36 no crash Mar 10 00:37:39 woot Mar 10 00:37:53 I'm rather sure iweron did some severe mess on his system, like installing thumbified pkgs to a non-thumb kernel Mar 10 00:38:03 in the past Mar 10 00:38:12 which would explain everything Mar 10 00:39:34 how about testing WLAN now after proper reflash? Mar 10 00:40:52 odds are the former owner messed up firmware/system and that resulted in WLAN not working anymore Mar 10 00:41:12 he mean that if he open HAM, ham will want to use wifi Mar 10 00:41:18 and system will crash due to wifi Mar 10 00:41:25 anyway +1 on testing wifi Mar 10 00:41:29 before anything else Mar 10 00:41:34 then, those 3 packages Mar 10 00:41:34 how can you break your wifi using software? :O Mar 10 00:41:39 but order shouldn't matter Mar 10 00:41:44 I've seen so many N900 sold as "defect" and when you ask if the system got reflashed then answer is "what's flashing?" Mar 10 00:41:49 i2ctools dont break thing (on its own) Mar 10 00:42:00 DocScrutinizer05, I dount it's the case here Mar 10 00:42:06 we will know in a minute or so :) Mar 10 00:42:16 s/dount/doubt/ Mar 10 00:42:57 unless he fckd all former reflashes, this one won't change a thing... Of course I hope for it to be otherwise Mar 10 00:42:57 Sysaxed: that's pretty easy: install some leete WLAN drivers for example Mar 10 00:43:12 he meant hardware breaking. Mar 10 00:43:12 or a bitched wlan-firmware.bin Mar 10 00:43:24 aware of anything like that in existence? Mar 10 00:43:26 Erm.. /bin/sh: /home/user/MyDocs/bq27200.sh: Permission denied Mar 10 00:43:30 would be intresting to know Mar 10 00:43:33 it is under root Mar 10 00:43:35 iwrron, rootsh Mar 10 00:43:40 installed Mar 10 00:43:47 should I reboot? Mar 10 00:43:50 no. Mar 10 00:43:55 take it out from mydoc Mar 10 00:43:56 chmod +x `path-to-bq27200.sh` Mar 10 00:43:59 mydocs Mar 10 00:44:00 wont help Mar 10 00:44:04 mydocs is noexec Mar 10 00:44:05 [02:43] chmod +x `path-to-bq27200.sh` Mar 10 00:44:07 already done Mar 10 00:44:17 ooh, MyDocs Mar 10 00:44:23 is VFAT, no +x there Mar 10 00:44:35 mv /home/user/MyDocs/bq27200.sh /root/bq27200.sh Mar 10 00:44:35 but I executed it from MyCods before Mar 10 00:44:39 for example Mar 10 00:44:49 it mean some shit messed with your system before Mar 10 00:44:57 mydocs $HOULD be noexec Mar 10 00:45:22 and don't change it unless you know why you may want to change it Mar 10 00:45:34 /root/bq27200.sh: permission denied Mar 10 00:45:51 sh /root/bq27200.sh Mar 10 00:45:58 are you sure you're root? Mar 10 00:46:06 $: whoami Mar 10 00:46:10 even `mv /home/user/MyDocs/bq27200.sh \usr\local\sbin\` Mar 10 00:46:12 yeah Mar 10 00:46:15 it worked Mar 10 00:46:21 with sh Mar 10 00:46:28 wtf? Mar 10 00:46:42 ah Mar 10 00:46:49 \_o_/ Mar 10 00:46:50 chmod +x /root/bq27200.sh Mar 10 00:46:55 err Mar 10 00:46:57 as first chmod didnt worked Mar 10 00:47:00 s.\./. Mar 10 00:47:01 due to being in vfat Mar 10 00:47:20 At first I made chmod +x in MyDocs and it didn't work ) Mar 10 00:47:22 even `mv /home/user/MyDocs/bq27200.sh /usr/local/sbin/` Mar 10 00:47:23 you can also move it to /usr/sbin as DocScrutinizer05 said, /root/ was just example Mar 10 00:47:36 okay Mar 10 00:47:36 haha, chmod +x on fat? :D Mar 10 00:47:37 local Mar 10 00:47:42 then you will be able to execute it as just bq27200.sh without path Mar 10 00:47:56 kk Mar 10 00:47:59 next time Mar 10 00:48:04 now testing Mar 10 00:48:08 ok Mar 10 00:48:19 be sure to let it run for a 2 minutes or so with Mar 10 00:48:23 bq27200.sh 30 Mar 10 00:48:27 even longer Mar 10 00:48:37 it is already 2 mins running Mar 10 00:49:03 with screen of, nothing happening there, and GSM turned on? Mar 10 00:50:00 gsm on Mar 10 00:50:06 screen off Mar 10 00:50:15 I didn't change anything Mar 10 00:50:22 just installed rootsh and ic2 Mar 10 00:50:25 i2c* Mar 10 00:50:39 I'd make sure trackerd and similar shit doesn't hog system Mar 10 00:51:27 iweron: run `w` Mar 10 00:51:47 wtf Mar 10 00:51:54 Segmentation failed Mar 10 00:52:13 it shall output 2 lines, first line with sth like >> 01:51:10 up 59 days, 1:38, 0 users, load average: 0,16, 0,04, 0,01", watch the last 3 numbers, they shall be close to zero Mar 10 00:54:18 segfault? in which process? Mar 10 00:56:50 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders what's taking that long. visions of iweron doing weird things come to mind Mar 10 00:59:28 shit Mar 10 01:01:23 just trying to bring the output here... Mar 10 01:01:24 If I were interested in starting the "trolls vs experts" game for another match, I'd remark that it's not really uncommon for OC idiots to seel their N900 with whatever random "$rnd defect" tag on ebay, when they realize they cooked the SoC. The new owner can have weeks and months of fun with trying to find out about root cause of a plethora of weird arcane system failures Mar 10 01:01:45 s/seel/sell/. Mar 10 01:02:36 DocScrutinizer05, there should probably be a stress test program to see whether or not the SoC still comes up with non-potato results. Mar 10 01:02:49 :nod: Mar 10 01:04:23 finally Mar 10 01:04:24 http://pastebin.com/JkggkReQ Mar 10 01:04:46 this looks like system busy Mar 10 01:05:06 Stock system Mar 10 01:05:10 did you do the `w` thing I told you to do? Mar 10 01:05:10 I didn't change anything Mar 10 01:05:13 full reflash Mar 10 01:05:55 it's not uncommon when trackerd hogs CPU for ~10 min after boot Mar 10 01:06:16 especially, that he just reflashed - tracker and friends may be busy Mar 10 01:06:18 also make sure nothing is plugged in to USB Mar 10 01:06:25 yep Mar 10 01:06:37 thus: `w` Mar 10 01:06:38 nothing Mar 10 01:06:42 w? Mar 10 01:06:45 btw, what segfaulted and when Mar 10 01:06:45 w Mar 10 01:07:04 oh, nvm Mar 10 01:07:05 [2013-03-10 01:54:17] segfault? in which process? Mar 10 01:07:07 about segfault Mar 10 01:07:14 vi Mar 10 01:07:20 I installed vim Mar 10 01:07:29 instead of vi Mar 10 01:07:35 I got a bad feelings about this (tm han solo shot first) Mar 10 01:07:36 o.O Mar 10 01:07:48 it is okay Mar 10 01:07:54 first of all, his device settled down to 96 mA usage, just like before reflash Mar 10 01:08:02 not to mention that vi shouldnt segfault Mar 10 01:08:16 not to mention that vi comes with messybox Mar 10 01:08:22 wifi is still borked? Mar 10 01:08:23 segfault was when I trying to paste output Mar 10 01:08:32 I just didn't find > :) Mar 10 01:08:38 I see Mar 10 01:08:49 ah, thats normal Mar 10 01:08:51 anyway Mar 10 01:08:56 wifi isn't alive? Mar 10 01:08:59 Dunno about wifi, I could test Mar 10 01:09:02 sure Mar 10 01:09:18 although I know results, sadly :/ Mar 10 01:09:33 Okay Mar 10 01:09:37 kernel panik Mar 10 01:09:40 c* Mar 10 01:09:45 ~90mA anyway was normal for WLAN scanning since not associated Mar 10 01:09:45 it's not kernel panic, but yea Mar 10 01:09:52 his wlan can't scan ;) Mar 10 01:10:03 module was unloaded Mar 10 01:10:05 anyway Mar 10 01:10:13 borked hw :( Mar 10 01:10:18 it can not scan and crashes system Mar 10 01:10:19 iweron: what makes you think there's been PANIC? Mar 10 01:10:46 wrong use of words, it's not kernel panic. His system goes unstable, when trying to use wifi hardware Mar 10 01:10:50 cause device willn't start even if I will turn it off Mar 10 01:10:57 or it will turn off itselft Mar 10 01:11:06 what now? Mar 10 01:11:08 untill I will remove battery Mar 10 01:11:15 = same as before Mar 10 01:11:23 yeah Mar 10 01:11:27 :( Mar 10 01:11:51 meh, ok rhen do whatever you want. I don't bother anymore asking for details which never get delivered Mar 10 01:12:15 ~96 mA idle usage without CPU getting awake, system going unstable due to power variations when trying to use wifi hardware via module... Mar 10 01:12:25 you could install syslog and check what happens Mar 10 01:12:29 when you try to use wifi Mar 10 01:12:33 I would do that for sure... Mar 10 01:12:42 but it won't change fact, that your hardware is borked :( Mar 10 01:12:47 just pretty please never ponder to open tickets on b.m.o with reports of that quality and etail Mar 10 01:13:16 but since I do anything with wifi terminal and other apps stop working Mar 10 01:13:37 screen freeze? Mar 10 01:13:53 or rather "kinda" worka but nothing works in reality? Mar 10 01:14:05 second variant Mar 10 01:14:05 s/worka/works/ Mar 10 01:14:06 Estel_ meant: or rather "kinda" works but nothing works in reality? Mar 10 01:14:09 * Estel_ nod Mar 10 01:14:30 clear signs of crazy power fluctuation, when module tries to talk with wifi hardware Mar 10 01:14:32 * DocScrutinizer05 is amazed about Estel_'s endurance to ask for proper descriptions of what's actually happening Mar 10 01:14:47 :D Mar 10 01:14:50 when you unload module, device is stable, but something in wifi hw still leak power Mar 10 01:15:04 Okay, I am not able to discribe anything correctly :) Mar 10 01:15:12 i bet syslog would give us interesting output to analyze, but wouldn't help nevertheless :P Mar 10 01:15:12 that's a suspicion of yours Mar 10 01:15:35 DocScrutinizer05, everything is suspicious when i don't have device in hands, that right, but I know exact same case Mar 10 01:15:44 although with bluetooth/FM Mar 10 01:15:52 should I use soldering-iron? Mar 10 01:16:00 to do what? Mar 10 01:16:04 exactly :P Mar 10 01:16:14 light a cig with it? yeah, do that! Mar 10 01:16:31 To fuck up wifi chip Mar 10 01:16:43 would be funny to know what would happen with wifi module unsoldered, if you can unsolder it properly, which is harder than you think Mar 10 01:16:47 why not fuck up CPU? Mar 10 01:16:57 of couse DocScrutinizer05 is right about dangling connection Mar 10 01:17:03 but can't be worse than it is :P Mar 10 01:17:18 if you say that Mar 10 01:17:21 unless you screw some other part, which is quite expected Mar 10 01:17:27 Just kiddin Mar 10 01:17:29 anyway Mar 10 01:17:32 I know. Mar 10 01:17:43 if you want to be useful for science, install syslog Mar 10 01:17:46 mess with wifi Mar 10 01:17:54 and paste output of /var/log/syslog Mar 10 01:17:58 after that Mar 10 01:18:07 I have to do smth with power consumption or... Mar 10 01:18:08 *full* output Mar 10 01:18:13 won't help your device, but may be interesting to rea Mar 10 01:18:17 yea, full one Mar 10 01:18:20 or I will buy a new phone =\ Mar 10 01:18:31 sell it as "99% OK" on ebay ;) Mar 10 01:18:44 then buy another N900 Mar 10 01:18:57 * Estel_ can be evil, as he never buys N900's on ebay Mar 10 01:19:13 This device was bought on ebay :) Mar 10 01:19:34 yeah, and I commented on that a few minutes ago Mar 10 01:19:41 considering ammount of people that go to sell devices after getting ensured about hardware error here or on TMO, ebay should hate us Mar 10 01:19:43 :) Mar 10 01:20:03 DocScrutinizer05, except for your usual bashing about overclocking, which is hardly related to this case :P Mar 10 01:20:03 So, the only probles is how to save the output of syslog Mar 10 01:20:07 problem* Mar 10 01:20:10 it saves itself Mar 10 01:20:11 ebay loves everybody who does business with them Mar 10 01:20:16 to /var/log/syslog Mar 10 01:20:20 DocScrutinizer05, true Mar 10 01:20:25 so ebay should love us :P Mar 10 01:20:44 btw have you seen semi-fix for gsm modem problems? Mar 10 01:20:48 iweron: it *is* already saved Mar 10 01:20:56 in /var/log/syslog Mar 10 01:21:01 it will be if you install syslog Mar 10 01:21:03 :P Mar 10 01:21:05 syslogd Mar 10 01:21:11 then reboot device Mar 10 01:21:14 then mess with wifi Mar 10 01:21:26 then reboot again and paste full content of /var/log/syslog Mar 10 01:21:31 ksyslogd Mar 10 01:21:32 which is a text log file Mar 10 01:21:36 ? Mar 10 01:22:09 there are 2 or three *syslog* pkgs Mar 10 01:22:27 sysklogd ? Mar 10 01:22:34 :nod: Mar 10 01:22:40 shit Mar 10 01:22:48 what are differencies? Mar 10 01:22:59 freemangordon once suggested me to install syslogd Mar 10 01:23:04 one is for userland, other is for kernel logs Mar 10 01:23:05 no idea about other ones :/ Mar 10 01:23:13 afaik Mar 10 01:23:22 ksyslogd is for userland? Mar 10 01:23:34 as syslogd clearly gives me kernel logs Mar 10 01:23:52 anyway one depends on the other, and it doesn't hurt to install all of them Mar 10 01:25:37 klogd - Kernel Logging Daemon Mar 10 01:25:39 sysklogd - System Logging Daemon Mar 10 01:27:55 omg Mar 10 01:27:56 wtf Mar 10 01:28:01 trying to install sysklogd Mar 10 01:28:11 it writes that I should install klogd Mar 10 01:28:18 trying to install klogd Mar 10 01:28:27 it writes that I should install sysklogd first Mar 10 01:28:30 O_O Mar 10 01:28:47 > >The klogd daemon listens to kernel message sources and is responsible for prioritizing and processing operating system messages. The klogd daemon can run as a client of syslogd or optionally as a standalone program << Mar 10 01:29:33 apt-get install sysklogd Mar 10 01:30:27 can not Mar 10 01:30:30 I have no internet Mar 10 01:30:37 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/syslog Mar 10 01:31:18 iweron, insert sim or get usb networking Mar 10 01:31:35 :nod: Mar 10 01:31:53 second variant seems good to me Mar 10 01:32:06 ~usbnetworking Mar 10 01:32:07 i guess usbnetworking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Mar 10 01:33:15 most user-friendly way is to install qtmobilehotspot package, it also allow usb networking without madde etc Mar 10 01:34:29 of course instruction on wiki is good too, just require shitload of time to setup Mar 10 01:34:39 for the first time, at least Mar 10 01:34:56 installing any pkg seems a pain without internet Mar 10 01:35:00 btw funny that qtmobilehotspot may help your device with broken wifi Mar 10 01:35:02 fact Mar 10 01:35:06 dependency hell Mar 10 01:35:36 sim->3G or gprs -> qtmobilehotspot -> usb networking Mar 10 01:35:42 would be my path of choice Mar 10 01:35:50 for fastest way of reaching internet Mar 10 01:36:08 so installing qtmobilehotspot seems even more of a cumbersome effort that installing syslog Mar 10 01:36:36 s/that/than/. Mar 10 01:36:37 sure :P but he may want to install something else 10 seconds after disabling usb networking :P Mar 10 01:36:44 think about it as time investment :P Mar 10 01:37:17 any method will be ok as long as he get it, anyway Mar 10 01:37:20 GPRS sounds like a reasonable bootstrap plan Mar 10 01:39:43 I wonder about efficiency of wireless usb Mar 10 01:40:08 and n900 hostmode Mar 10 01:40:29 200 mA should be enough... could mod dongle to allow charging to, of course via real cable Mar 10 01:40:56 connecting something to N900 for hostmode via xxx meters of cables is quite troublesome on my desk Mar 10 01:41:20 it seems that I have to unload wifi modules before using qt hotspot app Mar 10 01:41:25 cables keep acting like springs and throwin out of balance my other stuff on desk :P Mar 10 01:41:26 cause it crashed my phone Mar 10 01:41:50 you should unload wifi module as first thing after booting, anyway, and set qtmobilehotspot to usb mode Mar 10 01:42:10 should I configure anything on my comp? Mar 10 01:42:11 if it crashes it in usb only mode, it would be interesting Mar 10 01:42:19 operating system on desktop is? Mar 10 01:42:38 Debian Mar 10 01:42:42 Crunchbang Mar 10 01:42:49 just your usual way to share connection Mar 10 01:42:57 drivers are already there Mar 10 01:43:49 omg Mar 10 01:43:54 I should run powerkernel Mar 10 01:44:09 to use qt hotspot Mar 10 01:46:09 ~usbnetworking Mar 10 01:46:10 from memory, usbnetworking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Mar 10 01:46:52 yes Mar 10 01:46:54 :D Mar 10 01:47:11 or... install kp52, it is only 3 or 4 packages :P Mar 10 01:47:24 I admit doing it manually would be faster, after all Mar 10 01:47:33 omap1 has usb networking, doesn't it Mar 10 01:47:48 (though, using sim and gprs to install qtmobilehotspot and dependencies, would be faster even more :P) Mar 10 01:48:03 yea, it's probably aboout wifi sharing Mar 10 01:49:10 actually this page in wiki is not applicable Mar 10 01:50:23 it doesn't cover the PC-master&N900-client case Mar 10 01:51:55 lol Mar 10 01:52:19 hm, does it matter which one is master? it just matter to pc being one sharing network, should be doable as slave? Mar 10 01:52:23 or not? Mar 10 01:52:52 well for instance HAM will outright refuse to use the usb connection Mar 10 01:52:58 unless you have a dummy connection enabled Mar 10 01:53:07 I seem to recall connecting N900 via qtmobilehotspot (N900 master) and serving net from pc Mar 10 01:53:31 ham can go and f itself Mar 10 01:53:49 unless you redpill and enable "assume net connection" Mar 10 01:53:52 hate how this program is written Mar 10 01:54:01 it's not HAM, it's maemo applications Mar 10 01:54:03 funny, I've never redpilled ham Mar 10 01:54:09 why, browser works :P Mar 10 01:54:12 nope Mar 10 01:54:18 i never used dummy Mar 10 01:54:22 yet it worksforme? Mar 10 01:54:48 hm Mar 10 01:54:56 doesn't it complain, at least? Mar 10 01:55:01 or i actually did something to make it gtfo without using dummy, but replicating what it does? can't remember now Mar 10 01:55:12 maybe youmre right, I vaguely remember something Mar 10 01:55:37 it must have been just small irritating thing, as I don't remember it well... Mar 10 01:55:39 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/maemo-pc-connectivity/0.5/ Mar 10 01:55:53 wtf is that? Mar 10 01:56:14 ew Mar 10 01:56:23 from the name, it sounds like some diablo BS Mar 10 01:56:38 Convenience metapackage which installs extra Control Panel applets, openssh, sshfs and sbrshd in tablet. Mar 10 01:56:42 wtf, doc? Mar 10 01:56:44 called it! Mar 10 01:57:05 fremantle from the name looks like diablo to you? :P Mar 10 01:57:20 fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel Mar 10 01:57:30 Meant to be used with ESbox Eclipse plugin. Mar 10 01:57:32 insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$KERNEL_VERSION/g_ether.ko Mar 10 01:57:35 I don't have this Mar 10 01:57:37 wtf? Mar 10 01:57:38 whatever t f it is Mar 10 01:57:48 install kernel-power :P Mar 10 01:58:01 :D Mar 10 01:58:05 it seems that wiki page assume kp anyway Mar 10 01:58:13 ~kernel-power Mar 10 01:58:17 install it from manual link Mar 10 01:58:19 :( Mar 10 01:58:22 in kp51 thread Mar 10 01:58:34 kp51 thread have kp52 links in first post Mar 10 01:58:38 I know, logical ;) Mar 10 01:58:48 Estel_: it's a package that comes from diablo Mar 10 01:58:57 kerio, right Mar 10 01:59:07 I don't get how it could help in usb networking, though Mar 10 01:59:09 unstable? Mar 10 01:59:15 btw dummy network comes from diablo too Mar 10 01:59:17 btw dummy network comes from diablo too Mar 10 01:59:23 iweron, kp52 is perfectly stable Mar 10 01:59:25 that's why i use libicd-network-null Mar 10 01:59:33 and that diablo crap never works Mar 10 01:59:36 kerio, what it is and how to eat it? Mar 10 01:59:40 same as maemo-pan and whatevs Mar 10 01:59:50 Estel_: it's better than libicd-network-dummy Mar 10 01:59:58 because it's the exact same thing Mar 10 02:00:05 ok, how it knows which real network I'm using? Mar 10 02:00:15 when I connect to dummy to make maemo happy? Mar 10 02:00:30 it redirect properly no matter is is use usb, or bluetooth, or whatever? Mar 10 02:00:37 or usb->ethernet adapter? Mar 10 02:00:39 Estel_: it doesn't matter for usb-ethernet which is master and which is slave. However on N900 you need to set up proper route etc, and on PC side you need to share your internet Mar 10 02:00:50 * Estel_ nods Mar 10 02:00:59 the wiki page instructs to do exactly opposite way Mar 10 02:01:01 qtmobilehotspot set route automagically Mar 10 02:01:06 that is why i recommended it Mar 10 02:01:10 I see Mar 10 02:01:47 it's miracle that no one ever released automagic package for us networking, and atmobilehotspot, with usb as just addition, stepped as gui slution for thaty Mar 10 02:02:38 ... which reminds me that I still have to get my dongle working, as Pali refused to include its module in KP, even despite it works nicely after getting compiled against kp headers :( Mar 10 02:02:55 hm Mar 10 02:02:58 I found only http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/kernel-power-flasher/2.6.28-10power51r1/ Mar 10 02:03:17 it's idiotic. And even wiki had a page that described the case PC="NIC"&N900="PC" - I can't find it anymore Mar 10 02:03:19 said smth about having it compiled as external module is one thing, and including it the way autobuilder likes it in KP is other, so he doesn't have time for the latter Mar 10 02:03:39 iweron, wait a second Mar 10 02:04:16 here Mar 10 02:04:17 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665&highlight=kernel-power Mar 10 02:04:22 first post Mar 10 02:04:25 links there Mar 10 02:04:25 hi all, is it possible to have gmail contacts sync like in android on n900 ? else, are there python hooks for the contact system which i could take advantage of ? Mar 10 02:04:25 ~kp Mar 10 02:04:26 extra, extra, read all about it, kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 Mar 10 02:04:32 you dont need kernel-power-bootimg Mar 10 02:04:57 you shouldn't install KP just to get USB-networking Mar 10 02:05:04 is_null, whatever you mean by "like android" ? Mar 10 02:05:10 DocScrutinizer05, no module g_ether Mar 10 02:05:12 on omap Mar 10 02:05:26 it's absolutely contraproductive to investigate about syslog and power usage Mar 10 02:05:53 well, we know that kp doesn't result in making his problems worse, so it is, at worst, not productive Mar 10 02:05:53 g_nokia afaik Mar 10 02:05:59 but not counter productive Mar 10 02:06:02 hm Mar 10 02:06:15 Estel_: in my contacts list: i can see all gmail contacts. When i add a contact on the phone -> it is added in gmail. When I add a contact on gmail -> it is added on the phone. And so on Mar 10 02:06:17 would be ok, but I can't find wiki page for using g_nokia either Mar 10 02:06:38 is_null, it is already included Mar 10 02:06:53 when i add contact using modest (mail client), it is stored in contacts Mar 10 02:06:56 Estel_: i just tried without SSU and it didn't work Mar 10 02:07:04 KP makes things worse, since it for example doesn't reset musb_hdrc to idle after messing with hostmode. Which results in ~80mA wasted power Mar 10 02:07:08 when i write mail, i can choose one of contacts as recipent Mar 10 02:07:15 oh, so you're not using the exchange gmail server ? Mar 10 02:07:19 DocScrutinizer05, not true? Mar 10 02:07:21 but can you call a gmail contact ? Mar 10 02:07:22 since ages? Mar 10 02:07:24 DocScrutinizer05: are you sure? Mar 10 02:07:28 yes Mar 10 02:07:32 where's your bug report? Mar 10 02:07:37 >:P Mar 10 02:07:38 why not filled bug. Mar 10 02:07:39 ? Mar 10 02:07:41 lol Mar 10 02:07:43 pfff it's commonly known Mar 10 02:07:50 bullshit, I use hostmode daily Mar 10 02:08:05 my usage after disconnecting is 3-4 mA offline mode Mar 10 02:08:16 at least using Mar 10 02:08:17 fine, then it got fixed Mar 10 02:08:18 ~usbmode Mar 10 02:08:19 it has been said that usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658 Mar 10 02:08:25 but you know what? Mar 10 02:08:29 it have been fixed since... Mar 10 02:08:32 since... Mar 10 02:08:36 kp47? Mar 10 02:08:46 definitely not Mar 10 02:08:52 mhm Mar 10 02:09:49 not to mention that in his case he isn't messing with hostmode :P Mar 10 02:09:51 anyway Mar 10 02:10:00 freemangordon, ^ Mar 10 02:10:03 just to ensure Mar 10 02:10:06 a known workaround been to plug device to a usb host and then unplug again, since that puts usb to idle correctly Mar 10 02:10:16 KP makes things worse, since it for example doesn't reset musb_hdrc to idle after messing with hostmode. Which results in ~80mA wasted power Mar 10 02:10:23 could you confirm that it wasw fixed? Mar 10 02:10:31 or connect charger Mar 10 02:10:39 :nod: Mar 10 02:10:43 but it is ancient bug, which was fixed ages ago IIRC Mar 10 02:10:55 I can't confirm anything in that regard Mar 10 02:10:58 Can not install it with dpkg -i kernel-power-flasher_2.6.28-10power51r1_armel.deb Mar 10 02:11:09 because it is kp52 Mar 10 02:11:21 ~kp Mar 10 02:11:21 well, kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 Mar 10 02:11:24 first post Mar 10 02:11:31 links there to kp52 Mar 10 02:11:57 oh ok Mar 10 02:16:22 kk Mar 10 02:16:26 seems to be installed Mar 10 02:17:42 is *.m.o going FUBAR again? Stuff seems slow like geotectonics Mar 10 02:18:10 talk.maemo.org doesn't count, yes? Mar 10 02:18:58 can't confirm, package interface and wiki is blazing fast here Mar 10 02:20:02 I have a hard time believing into http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=USB_networking&action=history Mar 10 02:20:09 no edits since 2010??? Mar 10 02:25:17 hm Mar 10 02:25:26 hotspot deleted my pppoe connection Mar 10 02:25:42 so I had to reboot Mar 10 02:28:50 =\ Mar 10 02:34:59 anyway thx everybody for your support :3 Mar 10 02:55:16 FINALLY!! http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Mar 10 02:55:29 ~usbnetworking Mar 10 02:55:29 methinks usbnetworking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Mar 10 02:55:50 ~listvalues N900_USB_networking Mar 10 02:55:50 ok, it seems that calling gmail contacts is fully supported in the latest ssu (i've read that for some people it stopped working after a while) Mar 10 02:55:52 Factoid search of 'N900_USB_networking' by value returned no results. Mar 10 02:56:07 ~literal usbnetworking Mar 10 02:56:08 "usbnetworking" is "http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking" Mar 10 02:56:27 ~usbnetworking is also http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Mar 10 02:56:28 DocScrutinizer05: okay Mar 10 02:57:26 dang, like 1+h for spotting this friggin wiki page **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 10 02:59:58 2013