**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 18 02:59:58 2013 Mar 18 03:00:04 oh yeah, soooo funny, I almost get blue in the face from laughing all day long Mar 18 03:01:35 maybe as funny as a rollercoaster or a ghost train, or whatching a splatter movie Mar 18 03:01:43 i mean all time when doin something big something must happen some kind of suprizes/problems... Mar 18 03:03:21 the only fun so far are the extremely gifted brilliant people doing all the work - it's a grace seeing them at work Mar 18 03:05:43 DocScrutinizer05: yes, and all users be really thankfull for that work... Mar 18 03:12:33 if someone like what do can do it all the time with pleasure... i too few time ago finish setup arch linux on usb flash in configuration /boot separate partition / on lvm volume and works great all this do for fun and check something new... Mar 18 03:15:49 now i think to try how works arm on vm... Mar 18 03:41:03 unclouded, but why crapbuntu? Mar 18 03:41:12 arch linux on N900 is pretty advanced project Mar 18 03:41:18 ~arch Mar 18 03:41:20 Object-oriented library of tools for MP machine and networkprogramming. URL: http://lagaffe.cpe.fr/~arch/, or version control software aiming to be better than cvs; at http://wiki.gnuarch.org/ Mar 18 03:41:24 ~fu Mar 18 03:41:26 FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- Mar 18 03:41:53 ~arch-n900 Mar 18 03:42:35 infobot, arch-n900 is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 Mar 18 03:42:36 Estel_: okay Mar 18 03:42:41 ~arch-n900 Mar 18 03:42:42 well, arch-n900 is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 Mar 18 03:52:37 Argggh, why QT have to suck so big time Mar 18 03:53:08 Alopex project looks great, but what comes from that, if it ignores half of my hardware keyboard remap, making imput a PITA... Mar 18 03:53:23 as every QT "app" Mar 18 03:53:46 * Estel_ whinnes at qwazix and freemangordon for choosing qt Mar 18 04:04:02 'ello Mar 18 04:05:48 isnt supl.nokia.com dead? Mar 18 04:06:54 Macer: maybe for the n900 but it is fine and kicking on symbian^3 and the n9 Mar 18 04:07:50 ah ok Mar 18 04:07:53 thanks Mar 18 04:08:07 dead on the n900? it actually checks? Mar 18 04:08:17 that's what i read on TMO Mar 18 04:08:25 maybe it identifies with the user agent Mar 18 04:15:07 Estel_: better develop on arch is cleaner and lighter than ubuntu... Mar 18 04:22:06 Estel_: not Ubuntu, but using their kernel to run Debian wheezy. getting a kernel that works seems to be hard work Mar 18 04:23:40 interesting discussion Mar 18 04:25:08 I'm running Squeeze on the n900 right now Mar 18 04:25:44 in textmode without X :) Mar 18 04:27:39 squeeze runs sweet for me too, but the ofono version is ancient and backporting a newer version looks non-trivial Mar 18 04:27:41 just got it to work, couldn't resist installing irssi and dropping by Mar 18 04:28:35 it runs awesome like this Mar 18 04:28:38 nice work on getting squeez going though Mar 18 04:28:53 thank you Mar 18 04:29:58 it's almost going to be a shame to bolt maemo on top ;) Mar 18 04:31:09 if we can get it done of course... Mar 18 04:34:44 unclouded: good to be obtain template of they kernel config and patches and make on clean tree... Mar 18 04:35:04 zaerc-n900: chroot? Mar 18 04:35:32 no on micro-SD Mar 18 04:35:46 O.o nice... Mar 18 04:36:13 it's not even using swapspace Mar 18 04:36:24 atm Mar 18 04:37:54 zaerc-n900: clean arch 32bit after install running using 47mb of ram... Mar 18 04:38:33 i goin to check arch arm when i make configure vm for them... Mar 18 04:38:50 I'm usin 88mb atm Mar 18 04:39:41 i dont how compare arm vs normal pc 32bit ram usage for now Mar 18 04:40:26 i must check which one use more of ram... Mar 18 04:40:46 I dunno either Mar 18 04:43:36 well, time to reboot the phone again Mar 18 04:44:16 and get it working as a phone again ;) Mar 18 04:44:42 bye y'all Mar 18 04:50:59 ~ # uptime Mar 18 04:51:00 05:50:42 up 67 days, 5:38, 0 users, load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00 Mar 18 04:51:10 hmm, yeah. time for a reboot Mar 18 04:51:49 recently it started feeling laggy Mar 18 04:52:48 Drathir: that would be better for sure Mar 18 04:54:21 sorted by %mem: http://privatepaste.com/2bfc1e7023 Mar 18 04:54:36 DocScrutinizer05: nice uptime... kexec? Mar 18 04:55:03 nah, why kexec? Mar 18 04:56:28 DocScrutinizer05: long time without reboot ^^ Mar 18 04:57:27 DocScrutinizer05: but how that is made 0 users? Mar 18 04:58:29 no idea Mar 18 05:00:07 not sure what counts as user, tbh Mar 18 05:03:40 it seems you need your "users" to do logging to utmp/wtmp Mar 18 05:05:08 this friggin thing doesn't even know `last` Mar 18 05:07:28 ghost logged looks orginally... Mar 18 05:25:02 Hey, I have a serious dillema here Mar 18 05:25:40 I got a broken N900 into my hand. It usb port is perfectly ok and connectin with testpins is estabilished, but, when connected, it only charger, it isn't recognized as all as usb device Mar 18 05:25:51 connecting it to linux pc result in NOTHING (Tm) in dmesg Mar 18 05:25:58 just lke nothing got ever connected Mar 18 05:26:18 so, usb is "kinda" broken. Now, device is in bootloop, but backupmenu 0.65 is there, and works Mar 18 05:26:42 that version haven't support for terminal, though Mar 18 05:27:14 I would like to restore working optfs and rootfs, but I have no freakin idea, what kernel was used on that device Mar 18 05:27:23 Estel_: charger working? Mar 18 05:27:34 Dragnslicer, yea, usb is technically working Mar 18 05:27:43 data connection to testpads under battery works Mar 18 05:27:56 it seems that usb is dead by either kernel or hardware failure of controller Mar 18 05:28:06 charging works like dumb charger Mar 18 05:28:37 anyway Mar 18 05:29:01 Drathir, as for your question, I'm using debian wheezy chrooted on N900 ;) Mar 18 05:29:13 but for best kernel experience in different OS, really check arch Mar 18 05:29:17 ~arch-n900 Mar 18 05:29:18 hmm... arch-n900 is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 Mar 18 05:29:33 now, I wonder what to do to get info what kernel is there Mar 18 05:29:53 as I i restore rootfs with modules to wrong kernel, I will loose backupmenu too Mar 18 05:30:00 making that device real unbrickable brick Mar 18 05:30:16 but just by summing it all up here, I got idea Mar 18 05:30:23 someone there if good remember distribute images to bring up from sdcard... but ts strange that linux not recognise and detect any device... Mar 18 05:30:48 I'll make backup of rootfs, unpack it on another N900, and update backupmenu files manually, to one having terminal... Mar 18 05:30:57 unles, damn, it's kernel without fbcon Mar 18 05:31:22 but I'll be able to figure kernel version from rootfs backup anyway Mar 18 05:31:44 prepare another device with vanilla + that kernel, boot sucesfully (hopefully) reviving device... Mar 18 05:32:14 more scarying for me why pc dont detect flasher? Mar 18 05:33:31 nothing, probably usb chip dead or someone messed with kernel too much Mar 18 05:33:39 I suspect the 1st option Mar 18 05:33:47 I got that device for free as dead completely Mar 18 05:34:09 so making it even one without usb but working is better than leaving it as dead Mar 18 05:34:26 reviving is fine, reminds me of some cyberpunkish RPG's sessions ;) Mar 18 05:34:34 flash mode not should be detect anytime? also whem nead loop mode is active? Mar 18 05:34:57 if usb controller is dead, nothing will happen I tried coldflashing, but of course, no use Mar 18 05:35:11 as device doesn't seems to accept or send anything on data lines Mar 18 05:35:18 but thats is good for free n900 O.o Mar 18 05:35:35 connecting it to usb hub doesn't even light diode signalling usb device connected, or leave anything on dmesg Mar 18 05:35:58 Drathir: ROMBL flashmode should alwys get detected, yes Mar 18 05:36:04 it just sucks 100 mA like usb light or whatever (from desktop) Mar 18 05:36:23 DocScrutinizer05, but what with device that got usb hardware fckd somehow? Mar 18 05:36:48 I suspected usb pins damaged, but it's rock solid, so measured it to testpads under battery, and it's perfectly fine Mar 18 05:37:03 Drathir, so I really suspect hardware damage Mar 18 05:37:05 btw fun fact Mar 18 05:37:27 connected without battery to pc via usb result in device having solid yellow OR solid green diode Mar 18 05:37:32 I mean N900's led Mar 18 05:37:42 randomly Mar 18 05:38:12 Generally I get some dead N900's from time to time for bargain or free, and most of them are really dead... Mar 18 05:38:25 but this one gives hopes for revival, even if handicapped Mar 18 05:38:30 re usb Mar 18 05:39:36 Well, I'm not as much surprised, seen strange things ;) Mar 18 05:40:03 We danced graveyards with the vampires 'till dawn, we laughed at the faces of kings, never afraid to burn... Mar 18 05:40:16 We seen N900 kernel reverting to default in nand for no plausible reason Mar 18 05:40:21 or any possible way Mar 18 05:41:28 I've seen and even hold in hands now N900, that can charge another N900 at 500mA in hostmode Mar 18 05:41:33 DocScrutinizer05: thanks i dont good know on that, but that about flasher remember from conversations with jacekowski and from technic hardvare side side he can give you help hand... Mar 18 05:41:38 while hardware limit is well known to be 200 mA Mar 18 05:42:41 Drathir: sorry? Mar 18 05:42:58 thanks Drathir, but currently, for all intents and purposes, usb data is dead there, and I'm perfectly sure about it. I'll investigate it further if manage to revive that device Mar 18 05:43:22 and don't mind old poor DocScrutinizer05, he may be clueless about what we're talking about, as he is getting only half of conversation Mar 18 05:44:09 DocScrutinizer05: oh sorry missing Estel_ nick connected with that help hand with hardware possible issues... Mar 18 05:44:27 he is part of folklore here ;) Mar 18 05:45:36 Drathir: aah, was already wondering how jacekowski was supposed to give me helping hand on any hw issue Mar 18 05:45:39 but also help me much too not a once time... Mar 18 05:47:04 but about usb on market like ebay but locally - allegro i saw a lot of devices with broken usb :/ is often i think issue... Mar 18 05:49:48 yea, but i's about a port coming out Mar 18 05:50:01 not port being perfectly fine, but usb hardware chip dead ;) Mar 18 05:50:07 interesting is any way to acces directly to onboard memory with edit and reflash? Mar 18 05:50:25 no, but there are test pins beneath battery Mar 18 05:50:32 2 of them are usb data + and - Mar 18 05:50:40 one is +5V Mar 18 05:50:46 and ground you have everywhere Mar 18 05:50:54 you can create alternate usb connection Mar 18 05:51:11 downside - it goes around some hardware filtering parts against static Mar 18 05:51:33 upside: backup antistatis 8Kv is also build-in usb hardware chip Mar 18 05:51:37 so you don't lose much Mar 18 05:51:53 Estel_: i must buy cable to hostmode but i thinking it is possible to use host mode and in the same time charging phone? Mar 18 05:51:59 many people use device with work-around usb via testpads, no one reported static frying yet Mar 18 05:52:12 Drathir, yea, but you need y-cable then Mar 18 05:52:42 and instead of buying hostmode cable I recommend cheaper female-to-female usb adapter Mar 18 05:52:55 then you use your normal usb cable, and usb adapter Mar 18 05:53:15 if you want, you may mod it to make it y-cable Mar 18 05:53:27 DocScrutinizer05: for me everone here is like a guru of n900 ^^ Mar 18 05:54:33 got some private message from DocScrutinizer05, warning you about him being guru and others not? ;) Mar 18 05:55:34 Estel_: give it a break please; it gets boring reading the same thing "_" Mar 18 05:55:39 toldya he is a part of folklore here, don't mind him ;) Mar 18 05:55:50 thedead1440, I don't exactly get what is same Mar 18 05:55:57 usb? it's another device Mar 18 05:56:07 Estel_: no the scrtunizing :p Mar 18 05:56:11 with another issue Mar 18 05:56:18 well Mar 18 05:56:22 not my fault ;) Mar 18 05:57:59 Estel_: yea thats idea sounds better with this usb adapter Mar 18 05:58:42 thedead1440, http://www.wildsoundmovies.com/images/han_solo_its_not_my_fault.jpg Mar 18 05:59:43 Estel_: really your usb thing is knowledgeable to read but the other thing let it go; it feels very repetitive and alot of sighing Mar 18 06:01:05 as usual, you don't have a clue what I was reffering to ;) Mar 18 06:01:43 actually I mean one private message, that landed on wrong recipent :> participating parties know what it's about Mar 18 06:01:48 so let it go yourself ;) Mar 18 06:02:05 and thanks for usb thing, I'm worried that it's rather boring for most, tho Mar 18 06:02:32 no idea on that but reading logs it doesn't seem anything happened? Mar 18 06:02:45 ok, there been no private message, that's a alie and a ban Mar 18 06:02:54 i was reading about the usb testbed thing Mar 18 06:05:50 amen Mar 18 06:09:35 <_Letsee> hey, that wasn't nice. Although, quite predictable Mar 18 06:10:02 goodness me the reversed name is back in fashion Mar 18 06:10:23 and earned him another month Mar 18 06:10:44 he's been warned not to spread lies and defamations Mar 18 06:11:14 what private message was he referring to btw? Mar 18 06:11:22 he made that up Mar 18 06:11:52 sigh... why does he keep doing that :-( Mar 18 06:12:00 suggesting I had planned to send a query to Drathir that he got knowledge about Mar 18 06:12:07 ban rage, eh? thedead1440, toldya to not use estel and DocScrutinizer05 and ban probably in one sentence ;) Mar 18 06:12:13 DocScrutinizer05, LOL, get a doctor or a life. Mar 18 06:12:19 (re backscroll) Mar 18 06:12:25 anothe r month Mar 18 06:12:27 3 now Mar 18 06:15:50 4 months Mar 18 06:20:52 DocScrutinizer05: $aEstel- maybe? Mar 18 06:21:17 no, sorry Mar 18 06:21:19 $a:Estel- Mar 18 06:21:54 although ircd-seven's ban matching is quite flexible, so i think that you still match the hostname, even cloaked Mar 18 06:23:54 what a sucker Mar 18 06:25:11 its sad; he spreads useful things but can't control himself Mar 18 06:29:18 Well, it seems that it's time to give this place (#maemo IRC) a lugh. If anyone needs me, contact Estel_ at ears.with.feets@gmail.com, or TMO's PM (if banrage haven't returned there). See ya in better times, without psychos as chanops! Mar 18 06:29:22 ~spank kerio Mar 18 06:29:22 * infobot bends kerio over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on kerio's pasty white buttocks. Mar 18 06:31:47 * thedead1440 wonders what was the spank for Mar 18 06:32:09 for telling the truth? Mar 18 06:32:44 btw a nice collection of his alter egos we have now Mar 18 06:32:51 hehe true Mar 18 06:34:20 seem he has a special need for alternative nicks, wonder why Mar 18 06:36:13 I however could bet on him starting another flaewar on tmo now - not that i'd care, just a pity for the mods over there Mar 18 06:37:55 moin Pali Mar 18 06:41:05 moin valerio Mar 18 06:51:57 * Drathir still thinking what happend there and is any my bad in that... Mar 18 06:55:16 no, Drathir. You're completely innocent in this Mar 18 06:55:29 don't worry Mar 18 06:56:38 it's just this particular user begs for a kick or ban every 6 months, probably due to some psychological problems. Seems the time elapsed once more today Mar 18 06:57:52 we had other similar cases, that finally asked for a lifelong ban by themselves. pupnick anybody? Mar 18 06:59:14 normal extrema of the crowd we call IRC users (or human race even) - one out of 300 is weird in a very special way Mar 18 07:00:23 good to hear that ist my bad, that is strange i see before ppl writing bad word on channel and spamming, but that is something new for me... Mar 18 07:00:57 Drathir: it's not your bad Mar 18 07:01:03 lol: * infobot sends pupnick flying like a yipping chihuahua Mar 18 07:02:54 thedead1440: ?? Mar 18 07:03:10 DocScrutinizer05: went searching in logs for pupnick ;) Mar 18 07:36:32 hi Mar 18 07:36:55 DocScrutinizer05, you're awesome Mar 18 07:55:11 Drathir: just please tell me: did I send *any* PersonalMail or IRC private query to you today? Mar 18 07:57:08 Howdy, I got on my hands an n900 that's having problems connecting to the network, either giving me "Could not establish network connection" or similar errors at startup. Research seems to indicate this is an issue with 4 chips that are a part of the GSM module (?) coming loose from the board. Mar 18 07:57:26 WLAN? Mar 18 07:57:30 GPRS? Mar 18 07:57:50 The gsm connection, bluetooth, wlan, the rest all work just fine last I checked. Mar 18 07:57:52 ooh, GSM, so I assume GPRS Mar 18 07:58:23 Reading around, I see some have successfully dealt with it by attaching small springs on the chips and having the shield push them down into the board Mar 18 07:58:47 This doesn't seem like the best solution, but I'd like to know more before I crack my baby open and get to work on it. Mar 18 07:59:22 yes, there's a known issue with GSM chips the way you describe it. Usually those faults also cause phonecalls to fail though, and most times you get a "SIM missing" icon in your statusbar Mar 18 08:00:13 I had an issue like that for a while months ago, however I was able to fix it at the time by placing paper between the battery and the sim card Mar 18 08:00:19 Assuming the problem was with the sim contacts Mar 18 08:00:34 however the symptoms can differ, probably depending on which particular pin of GSM chipset got loose Mar 18 08:00:46 But now the issue is more severe, and the errors now seem to point to the sim contacts not being the issue Mar 18 08:00:59 :nod: Mar 18 08:00:59 But I'm unsure, of course. Mar 18 08:01:14 pnatd is a good way to diagnose Mar 18 08:01:38 Oh? Mar 18 08:01:49 as long as sending "AT" to pnatd gives "OK" answer, modem is still alive, at least partially Mar 18 08:02:30 Would I be able to test with the sim out? Mar 18 08:02:46 I've got it in an old 5230 so I actually have a phone while the n900 is non-functional Mar 18 08:06:03 sure, pnatd should also work without SIM Mar 18 08:06:37 actually you can even call 911 without SIM Mar 18 08:06:55 I'd rather not use that to test the status of the modem :) Mar 18 08:07:15 (or whatever your local emegency call number, and depending on your carrier's policy, but at least N900 supports it) Mar 18 08:07:51 *#0000# (iirc) should also work Mar 18 08:08:02 or *#06# Mar 18 08:08:43 I'm not sure if *#06# actually talks to cellmo Mar 18 08:09:11 result anyway should be your IMEI popping up in a notifier Mar 18 08:10:24 *#0000# is for firmware version - I guess of modem, so it probably would also need to talk to modem, but again I'm not sure Mar 18 08:10:39 Well, I did get the IMEI popup Mar 18 08:10:49 That said pnatd does not seem to let me enter any at commands Mar 18 08:10:50 anyway if either of both fails, you definitely got modem or libisi problems Mar 18 08:11:14 root; pnatd Mar 18 08:11:21 then type Mar 18 08:11:23 AT Mar 18 08:11:27 and Mar 18 08:13:29 even when modem seems inresponsive, it might still recover by reflashing the cellmo firmware Mar 18 08:13:55 and probably you should reflash rootfs and eMMC during that as well Mar 18 08:14:15 It hangs for a while before returning "Pipe endpoint connection: Resource temporarily unavailable" Mar 18 08:14:25 Then dropping me back to the terminal which is then unresponsive Mar 18 08:14:40 that's a pretty good indication that modem doesn't respond Mar 18 08:15:23 Well this points to the chips being loose, rather than a bad connection to a sim card, yes? Mar 18 08:15:45 yes Mar 18 08:16:02 or the firmware in modem got corrupted Mar 18 08:16:29 I have performed no operations that would do such, I do not think Mar 18 08:16:39 or rootfs (kernel?-)drivers for the pnat device are defect Mar 18 08:17:03 Coupled with the fact that placing paper behind the battery has solved a similar issue in the past temporarily, seems to me that it might be the hardware Mar 18 08:17:19 anyway, before going hardcore and trying to fix hardware, a full reflash is always recommended Mar 18 08:17:26 Of course Mar 18 08:17:46 Now to just go about backing up to prepare for that... Mar 18 08:17:54 odds are your modem chips got loose Mar 18 08:18:08 That's what a few hours of searching seemed to indicate Mar 18 08:18:12 ~bm Mar 18 08:18:13 methinks backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Mar 18 08:18:25 Also that apparently the problem is more common in warmer climates, which I am in. Mar 18 08:18:42 :nod: Mar 18 08:18:58 software usually doesn't care about climate ;-) Mar 18 08:19:38 Hmm, backupmenu Mar 18 08:19:56 I might have to futz to use that, it seem that multiboot isn't directly supported with it Mar 18 08:20:09 Or I'll just save all my files and deal with a new installation Mar 18 09:20:18 Hi, where are the settings for the e-mail client ? Mar 18 09:21:39 I have Sent,Drafts and some other folders like usual IMAP , instead of binding them to the program created ones Mar 18 13:57:47 is the auther of proximus here? Mar 18 14:00:22 cityLights: what is proximus? The Harmattan app? Mar 18 14:25:50 what parts of the n900's firmwares are still closed source ? Mar 18 14:26:37 ~closed Mar 18 14:26:37 extra, extra, read all about it, closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages Mar 18 14:40:07 thedead1440: the application proximus Mar 18 14:41:14 cityLights: the one for usage on the N9 right? AFAIK Creamy isn't on IRC Mar 18 14:41:27 hmm Mar 18 14:41:39 brilient app Mar 18 14:41:53 which causes me to look for a new cellular that can run it Mar 18 14:41:58 profilematic does pretty much similar with added functionality Mar 18 14:44:39 I wore such a program and like it much Mar 18 14:44:55 I wrote such a program and like it much Mar 18 14:47:10 but I did it using python Mar 18 14:49:19 yay python Mar 18 14:50:22 is the autobuilder back up? Mar 18 14:50:38 seems HAM is screaming that modrana has an update Mar 18 14:50:42 yay Mar 18 14:53:40 cause python is easier for me Mar 18 15:24:11 FlameReaper-N900: yup, sounds about plausible Mar 18 15:24:40 ah Mar 18 16:11:38 Hello, does maemo have the same issues like Android when it comes to program permission? Mar 18 16:13:40 Hi, I'm a virus. I'd like permission to infect your computer. No problem you say? Thanks! Mar 18 16:15:16 eccerr0r: hahahhaha, well that's how android works Mar 18 16:15:26 shape: .debs are installed as root, and (pre/post)(inst/rm) scripts are ran as root Mar 18 16:15:42 once a program is running, it has user permissions Mar 18 16:16:12 which involve, by default, the ability to change the settings to autoconnect, ask for a connection, download a .deb, and make HAM install it as root Mar 18 16:16:25 kerio, I see, and can I install any deb or will there be problems with ARM arhitecture Mar 18 16:16:40 if you run a malicious program on a n900, you're thoroughly fucked Mar 18 16:16:53 just like on a real PC Mar 18 16:16:56 indeed Mar 18 16:16:58 well Mar 18 16:17:19 kerio: and yes I just bought a n900 and it's on it's way that's why im asking these questions :) Mar 18 16:17:23 the thing is, the most valuable thing to a user is the data Mar 18 16:17:31 and that's obviously damageable by any program Mar 18 16:17:53 anyway, debs on repository.maemo.org are built by maemo.org, and the source is available Mar 18 16:18:07 kerio: what about other programs, do I have to compile them? Mar 18 16:18:14 which other programs? Mar 18 16:18:27 if you grab some armel debs from debian... etch? they might work Mar 18 16:18:37 keyword being /might/ Mar 18 16:19:05 there's a vm image of the official development environment, you can compile stuff in there Mar 18 16:19:28 compiling on device is incredibly slow and you have to work through hoops because the toolchain doesn't fit on the rootfs Mar 18 16:19:32 so you have to move stuff around Mar 18 16:20:53 kerio: I see, let's say I download the deb of firefox from the official firefox website, because the phone is ARM it won't work? Mar 18 16:21:06 and because libs will be missing Mar 18 16:22:03 the .deb for arm could maybe vaguely work, but it'll probably take more space than there is on a n900 Mar 18 16:22:25 and the UI would be crap, because it's not meant for a 800x480 touchscreen Mar 18 16:23:40 sounds like somebody searching for easidebian Mar 18 16:23:49 easy* Mar 18 16:24:30 kerio: damn. Btw for a program, if it runs with user permissions I won't have the problem like with Android about it doing whatever it wants, correct? I'd have to su/sudo it for it to run with privileges. Mar 18 16:24:39 DocScrutinizer05: yep, I know about easydebian :) Mar 18 16:24:59 shape: what's the intent of this program? Mar 18 16:25:23 if it's malicious, as i told you, there's absolutely nothing stopping it from escalating priviledges Mar 18 16:25:35 errr Mar 18 16:25:37 kerio: Oh I see Mar 18 16:25:53 that's not really right, once it's installed Mar 18 16:26:09 kerio: It was a general question because I think Android is not secure when it gives out full privileges like that :( Mar 18 16:26:16 DocScrutinizer05: sudo apt-worker /tmp/malicious.deb Mar 18 16:26:25 that's passwordless, even if you're not HAM Mar 18 16:26:27 so I thought Maemo could change that :( Mar 18 16:26:27 you could however install all that's needed to gain root access together with any malicious program Mar 18 16:26:37 DocScrutinizer05: that, too Mar 18 16:27:37 kerio: Another thing. I know I can chroot ubuntu for example. Is it possible then to install something like GIMP? Mar 18 16:27:38 shape: basically you have all options to make your system safe, on maemo Mar 18 16:27:52 shape: install GIMP in easydebian Mar 18 16:27:59 hell, iirc it's already installed in the standard image Mar 18 16:28:06 kerio: NICE! Mar 18 16:28:14 DocScrutinizer05: well, yeah Mar 18 16:28:34 shape: there's no real problem with malicious software on maemo, because the vast majority of things you'll install have the source available Mar 18 16:28:41 and have been built by a trusted party (aka maemo.org) Mar 18 16:28:46 DocScrutinizer05: The reason for all this is because I was so pissed off how my android phone uploaded my contacts to my google account (including all phone numbers) WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME. Mar 18 16:29:11 oh, those are accessible to the user, any program on maemo could do that Mar 18 16:29:36 with any commercial closed blob app that can happen to you on maemo as well. But no such app is knows to exist so far Mar 18 16:29:45 kerio: but only if it's malicious tho, correct? Mar 18 16:30:04 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I don't use much anyway and I'd avoid closed/nonfree stuff Mar 18 16:30:08 shape: i don't know of any program that does that without asking Mar 18 16:30:32 yappari (a whatsapp client) obviously does, but iirc it asks for confirmation - and hell, you're kinda asking for it Mar 18 16:30:35 to install such malicious closed blob you'd need to add a repo to catalogs of HAM, and that's sth not any driveby on a website could do Mar 18 16:31:03 kerio: that's nice :) heck even the phone is 3 years old imo it's worth it for the stuff you are allowed to control, etc. Mar 18 16:31:06 i don't know of any remote code execution exploit against fremantle Mar 18 16:31:24 nope, none known Mar 18 16:31:52 shape is making me nervous :s Mar 18 16:31:54 * kerio disables non-free Mar 18 16:32:03 kerio: hahahahahhaha Mar 18 16:33:51 kerio: if there are some android apps that I might need (like Medscape for example) is it possbile to install chroot android and use them like that? Mar 18 16:34:08 in a chroot, not as i know Mar 18 16:34:14 DocScrutinizer05: sorry i go to rest when wrte that, but answer is no i dont get any PM from you, btw i think you dont have my mail adres because if good remember but not sure is hidden... Mar 18 16:35:21 kerio: what about a program like Stellarium. What would be the process to go about installing that? Mar 18 16:35:47 kerio: compile it in a VM running maemo? Mar 18 16:37:51 is it in the debian repos? Mar 18 16:38:06 stellarium on n900 will be a mistake Mar 18 16:38:12 and it's probably hard to do Mar 18 16:38:14 yes, that too :) Mar 18 16:38:18 stellarium uses opengl Mar 18 16:38:19 it's opengl, right? Mar 18 16:38:22 n900 has no opengl Mar 18 16:38:47 jacekowski: is there a way to make opengl work? Mar 18 16:38:50 n900 only has opengl ES (just like any other mobile device) Mar 18 16:39:08 shape: stellarium need opengl acceleration :/ Mar 18 16:39:16 jacekowski: stellarium has a compile-time switch to use gles apparently Mar 18 16:39:23 opengl es is a fairly limited version of opengl so it may be possible to port it Mar 18 16:39:40 hmm Mar 18 16:39:44 that will be easier then Mar 18 16:39:49 hahaha wow there's a BUILD_FOR_MAEMO flag Mar 18 16:40:05 kerio: where did you see that? Mar 18 16:40:09 http://stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Build_Options Mar 18 16:40:25 shape: as far as i can see, stellarium is in extras-devel Mar 18 16:40:45 kerio: in the repositories? Mar 18 16:40:48 yep Mar 18 16:41:08 kerio: Oh and I forgot to ask, can you install anything from the debian repositories and will it work? Mar 18 16:41:11 last time i try to stream from real pc throught ssh -X but sayy about opengl, anyway maybe port to n900 is possible who knowa Mar 18 16:41:16 shape: nope Mar 18 16:41:41 it might work if you go and grab a package from debian etch and it's not a complicated program Mar 18 16:42:00 kerio: so how will i know which programs will work and which will not? Mar 18 16:42:06 test them Mar 18 16:42:10 or run them in easydebian Mar 18 16:42:20 which programs do you want to run? Mar 18 16:42:59 i still think how make wlan and gprs work together in one time :/ Mar 18 16:43:27 kerio: no idea, just curious what I could do with it. Easy Debian already will have what I mostly use day to day. Mar 18 16:44:01 unless you have some pretty specific needs, easy debian's main use is the novelty factor, imo Mar 18 16:44:02 kerio: I'm new to linux and want to learn it, that's why i got the device, so i could tinker with it wherever i go. :) Mar 18 16:44:08 btw throught ssh -X qt application looks like works rally nice... Mar 18 16:45:54 kerio: btw thanks a lot for the info, I really appreciate it. Now i'm even more exited and impatient for the phone to arrive. :) Mar 18 16:46:29 Oh, do you happen to know if there are other phones that will run pretty much any GNU/Linux OS. N900 seemed unique that way. Mar 18 16:46:42