**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 22 02:59:58 2013
Apr 22 03:03:26 <nox-> ~skeiron
Apr 22 03:03:27 <infobot> well, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143
Apr 22 03:03:41 <nox-> maybe that has it
Apr 22 03:34:13 <DocScrutinizer51> what's wrong with scratchbox.org?
Apr 22 03:37:10 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ip scratchbox.org
Apr 22 03:37:32 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Apr 22 03:37:32 <infobot> aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51
Apr 22 03:37:44 <DocScrutinizer51> ~dns scratchbox.org
Apr 22 03:37:46 <infobot> scratchbox.org is 213.128.137.24
Apr 22 03:38:39 <DocScrutinizer51> ~scratchbox
Apr 22 03:38:39 <infobot> somebody said scratchbox was a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/
Apr 22 03:39:34 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo scratchbox
Apr 22 03:39:35 <infobot> scratchbox -- created by andersee <~andersee@codepoet.org> at Mon Feb  9 23:58:38 2004 (3359 days); it has been requested 9 times, last by DocScrutinizer51, 55s ago.
Apr 22 03:42:32 <DocScrutinizer51> I really wonder what "al links seem to be dead" means
Apr 22 03:44:19 <bef0rd> I only get "it works here"
Apr 22 03:44:45 <DocScrutinizer51> ??
Apr 22 03:45:48 <bef0rd> This is the default web page for this server.
Apr 22 03:45:52 <bef0rd> want screenshot?
Apr 22 03:46:31 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1336508#post1336508
Apr 22 03:46:45 <bef0rd> ah
Apr 22 03:47:00 <DocScrutinizer05> http://scratchbox.org/debian/
Apr 22 03:47:49 <DocScrutinizer05> >>jOERG 20130405<< ;-D
Apr 22 03:48:14 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll change this for a proper notice, eventually. i promise
Apr 22 03:48:56 <DocScrutinizer05> or ask thedead1440 to fix this mess, he's scratchbox maintainer
Apr 22 03:50:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ~scratchbox is also hosted by maemo.org now, maintainer thedead1440
Apr 22 03:50:52 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Apr 22 03:51:57 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, sleep is overrated anyway
Apr 22 03:52:12 <DocScrutinizer51> ~scratchbox
Apr 22 03:52:13 <infobot> it has been said that scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, or hosted by maemo.org now, maintainer thedead1440
Apr 22 03:57:46 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway, if anybody has a html mirror of scratchbox.org, pretty please share it, the backups we got are missing that completely. Also the wiki
Apr 22 03:57:58 <DocScrutinizer51> also mail archives
Apr 22 03:58:37 <DocScrutinizer51> :-/
Apr 22 03:59:12 <DocScrutinizer51> the original maintainer been not that cooperative
Apr 22 04:02:06 <bef0rd> http://web.archive.org/web/20120929030556/http://scratchbox.org/
Apr 22 04:02:55 <DocScrutinizer51> oooh, great
Apr 22 04:03:52 <DocScrutinizer51> thanks
Apr 22 07:41:21 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer51: I've added a one-liner to scratchbox.org index.html to point to downloads at ~/debian
Apr 22 11:51:26 <amospalla> hi guys, is it safe to recalibrate battery with kp52? mine has 1050 mAh full charge, and n900 starts complaining about low battery when it is still at 550 mAh or so
Apr 22 12:01:44 <kerio> of course it's safe
Apr 22 12:01:49 <kerio> it won't do you any good, but it's safe
Apr 22 12:02:11 <kerio> unless you're using the bme replacement, in which case you should already know how bq27k works and how it's used
Apr 22 12:08:29 <amospalla> I've got bme-rx-51 installed, can I benefit from recallibration?
Apr 22 12:11:45 <rikanee> amospalia: if your battery meter isn't calibrated, it helps a bit.
Apr 22 12:12:06 <kerio> amospalla: you've got what installed?
Apr 22 12:12:16 <rikanee> (assuming your battery is slightly worn out, and thus lost some charge)
Apr 22 12:14:31 <DocScrutinizer05> pali, write up a goddamn wiki page about bme replacement, so users have a *chance* to understand what it's all about!
Apr 22 12:15:16 <amospalla> kerio: it is a package from 2010, maybe not related
Apr 22 12:15:31 <cityLights> maybe anyone here know lirc?
Apr 22 12:15:43 <cityLights> I can't get any response at #lirc
Apr 22 13:18:32 <DocScrutinizer51> cityLights: what's the problem?
Apr 22 13:19:23 <cityLights> hi DocScrutinizer , I am able to get a reading using mode2 and no readings using irrecord
Apr 22 13:20:56 <cityLights> I read the lirc "how to add new remote" and made sure no ambiant noise
Apr 22 13:21:11 <cityLights> yet when I run irreconrd no code is sensed
Apr 22 13:21:53 <cityLights> irrecord did sense each button and adjasted the eps and aeps
Apr 22 13:32:32 <cityLights> here are the codes: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5592088/
Apr 22 13:45:14 <vi__> How would I best say in German:
Apr 22 13:45:21 <vi__> Please include the cost of postage with DHL.
Apr 22 13:45:35 <vi__> ?
Apr 22 13:54:58 <Win7Mac> vi__: "Bitte das Porto für DHL berücksichtigen."
Apr 22 14:08:44 <vi__> Thank you.
Apr 22 14:15:41 <Win7Mac> my pleasure. "berücksichtigen" actually means "consider". "include" would be "inkludieren" instead, which is not so common...
Apr 22 14:16:11 <Win7Mac> good site: http://dict.leo.org
Apr 22 14:48:10 <fil> DocScrutinizer51: "all links seem to be dead" was prompted by: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer which points at http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-hathor/ which is dead
Apr 22 14:48:40 <fil> also on http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK_Virtual_Images there's a link to http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php -- also dead
Apr 22 14:50:21 <fil> I came across a few other things that seem to have rotted, which I cannot remember -- is there an up to date Getting Started guide anywhere?
Apr 22 14:52:27 <fil> I think the virtual image approach seems like the least effort, so if there are still live images available I'd probably go with them
Apr 22 15:33:18 <DocScrutinizer51> fil: thanks, this is broken then. I hope for thedead1440 to look into it
Apr 22 15:34:01 <DocScrutinizer51> tablets-dev.nokia.com is known to be dead
Apr 22 15:34:03 <DocScrutinizer51> use 
Apr 22 15:34:11 <DocScrutinizer51> ~skeiron
Apr 22 15:34:12 <infobot> skeiron is probably the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143
Apr 22 15:50:56 <Woody14619> Win7Mac, didn't see you here.  Mailed you on TMO.  Go check it. :)
Apr 22 15:53:02 <Win7Mac> Yeah, just discovered IRC over the WE and gave it a go...
Apr 22 15:53:24 <Win7Mac> I already answered you, everything is in place
Apr 22 15:54:01 <Woody14619> Yay. :) Thanks.
Apr 22 15:54:15 <Woody14619> May pester you later today to see if you got e-mail. :)
Apr 22 15:55:28 <Win7Mac> Many thanks and yeah, go pester me...
Apr 22 16:39:51 <Win7Mac> Woody, while you're at it, on https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community, when I click on "vistit subscriber list", I get "maemo-community roster authentication failed." - pending approval?
Apr 22 17:05:06 <Woody14619> Win7Mac, Just logged in with my credentials, and it seems to be working.  That may mean the password you're using is wrong.
Apr 22 17:06:58 <Woody14619> Win7Mac, To get an email confirm with your passwd is... not obvious.  You need to go to unsubscribe with your e-mail and on the unsubscribe page it has a link to remind your of you password.
Apr 22 17:27:08 <Win7Mac> Woody, got it now, sorry. Problem was field "adress" had username preloaded so I didn't  realize mail is needed instead there... Now it works. I'd rather see usernames on that list...
Apr 22 17:41:59 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer51: Still using your n900?
Apr 22 17:42:17 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Apr 22 17:42:21 <DocScrutinizer05> every day
Apr 22 17:42:30 <DocScrutinizer05> hi Shapeshifter, long time no see
Apr 22 17:42:34 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Apr 22 17:42:36 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer51: hello :)
Apr 22 17:42:54 <DocScrutinizer05> wouldn't you be a nice council candidate?
Apr 22 17:43:35 <DocScrutinizer05> or at least you could become a nice council member - right now you're a tad detached usually, it seems
Apr 22 17:43:43 <Shapeshifter> Oh I'm not so sure. I'm still using my N900 but I'm starting to get a bit bored. Plus I'm growing envious of the maps/navigation capabilities of Android these days...
Apr 22 17:44:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I know what you mean
Apr 22 17:44:59 <Shapeshifter> From what I gather, there are still plenty of things missing on Android that I like about Maemo but in some regards, Maemo 5 is showing its age.
Apr 22 17:45:31 <Shapeshifter> Plus I'm super busy with other things. But I like to pop in every now and then. 
Apr 22 17:46:16 <Shapeshifter> full-keyboard sliders pretty much died out ...
Apr 22 17:46:28 <Shapeshifter> what a shame.
Apr 22 17:47:18 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Apr 22 17:47:36 <DocScrutinizer05> mainstream killed the pocket computer
Apr 22 17:47:48 <DocScrutinizer05> like tablets killed the PC at large
Apr 22 17:49:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the funnier all those (shitty crappy silly) BT clip-on hw qwerty for cryPhone
Apr 22 17:49:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and much all the same for tablets
Apr 22 17:50:27 <Shapeshifter> yeah it's pretty bad.
Apr 22 17:50:32 <DocScrutinizer05> what the heck is wrong with this world: invent laptop/notebook/netbook, then replace that by shitty tablets, just to convert them to poor netbooks again, with add-on hw lbd
Apr 22 17:50:58 <DocScrutinizer05> kbd*
Apr 22 17:51:07 <Shapeshifter> people love spending that extra money on accessoires
Apr 22 17:51:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I can sell them proper laptops as kit
Apr 22 17:51:36 <DocScrutinizer05> in 37 boxes
Apr 22 17:51:45 <Shapeshifter> :)
Apr 22 17:52:02 <DocScrutinizer05> "hey, today I bought me an 'E'!"
Apr 22 17:52:23 <DocScrutinizer05> "PAH! I got me a display!"
Apr 22 17:52:49 <DocScrutinizer05> "losers! Look at my shiny CPU"
Apr 22 17:53:07 <DocScrutinizer05> "mine even boots menawhile!"
Apr 22 17:53:22 <Shapeshifter> I hope that in about 10-20 years we can build our own mobile gear from scratch.
Apr 22 17:53:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I pretty much doubt that
Apr 22 17:54:19 <DocScrutinizer05> unless printers made HUGE progress until then, printing in nanometer range
Apr 22 17:55:02 <Shapeshifter> Well, at the rate at which electronics are getting smaller, I could imagine something like the raspberry-pi, only 1/5 the size. Add a display, cellular antenna and battery, and you're almost there.
Apr 22 17:55:23 <Shapeshifter> well, not *that* from scratch
Apr 22 17:56:19 <Shapeshifter> I was more thinking about a framework (like with PCs currently).
Apr 22 17:56:26 <DocScrutinizer05> you know pretty well the real tough thing are the braindead little parts, like case, knobs, battery, receptacles, aso
Apr 22 17:57:23 <Shapeshifter> mh, yes.
Apr 22 17:57:58 <DocScrutinizer05> the modular concept never panned out for embedded, for basic physical reasons you can't change
Apr 22 17:58:44 <Shapeshifter> I hope it's a case of "not yet". Something like the pi was probably thought to be impossible 10 years ago.
Apr 22 17:58:57 <DocScrutinizer05> basically SoCs and modem modules are already as modular as it gets
Apr 22 17:59:16 <Shapeshifter> mh
Apr 22 18:00:23 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no room in embedded (logically and physically) for B2B-connectors and a small case around every single module
Apr 22 18:01:43 <Shapeshifter> Well I for one am amazed at thing like this http://blog.modmypi.com/2012/09/installing-wireless-usb-11n-nano.html 
Apr 22 18:02:04 <cehteh> in a few years there will be an optical bus :P
Apr 22 18:02:18 <Shapeshifter> If the connector were smaller (something like micro-sd), you could have 10 of these connectors on the board, plugging in these weeny tiny things
Apr 22 18:02:19 <DocScrutinizer05> cehteh: won't help either
Apr 22 18:02:26 <kerio> in a few years, the modules will just have to be in the same room to work
Apr 22 18:02:37 <cehteh> jk
Apr 22 18:03:41 <cehteh> prolly most, if not all stuff will be stacked together on a single package, no modules except where they are physically unavoidable (camera, etc)
Apr 22 18:36:01 <thedead1440> fil: for http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-hathor/ use http://www.scratchbox.org/debian/dists/hathor/main/ instead
Apr 22 18:37:16 <thedead1440> maybe the script is older and needs to be modified
Apr 22 18:38:36 <DocScrutinizer05> umm, would a symlink do?
Apr 22 18:39:07 <thedead1440> yup a symlink could be made for this but we don't know all the type of symlinks that need to be made
Apr 22 18:39:30 <DocScrutinizer05> this looks like a start
Apr 22 18:39:35 <thedead1440> maybe i'll read over the scripts for the sdk installations tomorrow and see the links it points to
Apr 22 18:39:46 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Apr 22 18:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> [general notice] nomination period for MCC/HFC running out in ~24h - CONSIDER TO RUN!  http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89843
Apr 22 18:41:48 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: jaffa prodding you to run for MCC/HFC :-D
Apr 22 18:42:30 <DocScrutinizer05> but yeah, I know your time is limited
Apr 22 18:42:33 <fil> DocScrutinizer05, thedead1440: thanks, I'll give that a go
Apr 22 18:51:23 <kerio> kinda
Apr 22 19:03:25 <fil> Shapeshifter, DocScrutinizer05: regarding modules. laptops etc.  seen this?  http://rhombus-tech.net/  (they have a DIY laptop in progress, the PCMCIA size is bit chunky for a phone though --  if the CF size modules ever get done, that might work though)
Apr 22 19:05:09 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it probably won't. Unlike a PC you can't use PCI for embedded plugin modules
Apr 22 19:06:01 <DocScrutinizer05> you got way too many interface "standards" that can't all go to a single multipurpose connector
Apr 22 19:06:25 <Shapeshifter> It would be possible though
Apr 22 19:06:56 <fil> erm, I think you've missed the point (the modules are a SOC and supporting kit that happen to be in the shape of PCMCIA / CF -- the signals are not at all compatible)
Apr 22 19:08:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and even if they could - what would you really save in doing stuff modular? the money you save on a non-populated module generally is more than eaten up by the increased complexity of the device at large, plus the connectors and stuff, make case with slots/appertures/removable-lid, and whatnot
Apr 22 19:08:34 <DocScrutinizer05> same for size of device
Apr 22 19:34:45 <ccxCZ> hm, still can't get my n900 to boot even after rootfs restore, it powercycles in the nokia screen
Apr 22 19:36:25 <ccxCZ> iirc it was stuck at the dots originally, then I attempted to flash stock rootfs usinx 0xffff, probably destroyed something in the process
Apr 22 19:37:34 <ccxCZ> rescueOS luckily works. any ideas? I heard there's a tool to reflash n900 from inside, is it on rescueOS?
Apr 22 19:49:29 <kerio> ~pr131
Apr 22 19:49:30 <infobot> rumour has it, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin  or  http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
Apr 22 19:49:44 <kerio> ~skeiron
Apr 22 19:49:44 <infobot> hmm... skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143
Apr 22 19:50:39 <fil> in the sb-conf bit of the manual scratchbox install, it mentions debian-etch -- should that now be debian-squeeze?  (and does it matter that I'm doing this on a debian-wheezy machine?)
Apr 22 19:52:05 <gregoa> fil: I'm using the debian-squeeze target of scratchbox, and I'm running it on sid. worked, last time I tried. - and hi :)
Apr 22 19:52:56 <fil> hi gregoa :-)
Apr 22 19:53:41 <fil> so do I actually need to define a FREMANTLE_X86 target (given that I think I only want this for building things for my n900)
Apr 22 19:54:10 <gregoa> no, I had one created and dropped it after not having used it once
Apr 22 19:54:24 <fil> fine, that's what I thought
Apr 22 19:55:25 <merlin1991> the only advantage of the x86 target is, that the simultor in there works
Apr 22 19:56:21 <fil> Hmm, just got:  sb-conf: No such devkit: debian-squeeze    -- so should I be leaving that as debian-etch in that instance, or am I missing something else?
Apr 22 19:56:38 <fil> merlin1991: ah, ok
Apr 22 19:57:23 <gregoa> fil: do you have the scratchbox-devkit-debian-squeeze package installed?
Apr 22 19:58:23 <fil> gregoa: I do now :-) ...
Apr 22 19:58:28 <gregoa> :)
Apr 22 19:59:18 <fil> that's better
Apr 22 20:00:36 <ccxCZ> kerio: I was reluctant to flash the full fiasco to not screw up the various firmwares, but I might have already done that :-)
Apr 22 20:00:50 <kerio> which firmwares?
Apr 22 20:01:22 <ccxCZ> GSM and whatever is there
Apr 22 20:01:43 <kerio> well, it's in the fiasco image
Apr 22 20:01:44 <kerio> isn't it
Apr 22 20:05:06 <ccxCZ> http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900
Apr 22 20:34:54 <fil> gregoa: is this actually the easiest way of getting something compiled for Maemo? It strikes me that, what with the number of DDs who have/had n900's there really ought to be a way of just treating it as another debian arch, but presumably that's a no-go for some reason?
Apr 22 20:41:46 <kerio> it's... not debian
Apr 22 20:46:12 <gregoa> fil: I guess the problem is that maemo is not debian (but a fork from 2009 with some changes and some proprietary pieces etc.)
Apr 22 20:47:06 <gregoa> fil: but I'm also surprised that the many DDs who at least had an n900 back in ~2010 didn't push more for debian on the machine. or for bringing maemo closer to debian.
Apr 22 20:48:27 <gregoa> fil: and be prepared for some fun. e.g. debhelper has version 5, and then there's a separate "debhelper7" package. - and the rest of the toolchain is also rather antique.
Apr 22 20:49:02 <fil> yeah, I know it's a fork, but if we can have buildds for BSD and HURD, how hard can it be -- we do have a couple of ARM ports after all
Apr 22 20:49:58 <gregoa> but no nokia-binaries in the archive
Apr 22 20:50:37 <fil> non-free? intaller-packages? *shrug*
Apr 22 20:52:10 <gregoa> hm, right, might work with some hacks. if nokia allowed debian to use those pieces
Apr 22 20:52:43 <fil> yeah -- I guess Nokia has not excatly been encouraging
Apr 22 20:53:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: flash your COMBINED, then see if it boots. If not, flash VANILLA, then COMBINED again
Apr 22 20:54:18 <DocScrutinizer05> use flasher-3.5 I'd suggest (if you have troubles anyway)
Apr 22 20:54:42 <ccxCZ> that's what I thought, thanks. will let it charge overnight
Apr 22 20:54:52 <DocScrutinizer05> good plan
Apr 22 20:56:50 <ccxCZ> gn
Apr 22 21:22:22 <Gremuchnik> Hi friends, two small questions: can I install Maemo5 on my Nokia N800 and, if yes, will I be able to install Easy Debian (http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian) on it?  thanks!
Apr 22 21:27:39 <kerio> Gremuchnik: no
Apr 22 21:53:51 <Gremuchnik> ok thanks
Apr 22 23:06:08 <ron0062000> so is there update for x-chat
Apr 22 23:22:10 <Sc0rpius> who is responsible for thumbnails creation in Maemo (tracker? hildon-thumbnailerd?) and why there are thumbnails in the Media Player that are NOT in /home/user/.thumbnails ?
Apr 22 23:24:26 <Drathir> that isnt generated only for image files? anyway i can be wrong...
Apr 22 23:24:38 <Sc0rpius> videos and audio files too
Apr 22 23:24:45 <Sc0rpius> audio files have the cover album
Apr 23 00:53:31 <DocScrutinizer05> *yawn*
Apr 23 01:20:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~botsnack
Apr 23 01:20:23 <infobot> aw, gee, DocScrutinizer05
Apr 23 01:20:30 <DocScrutinizer05> ~status
Apr 23 01:20:31 <infobot> Since Wed Apr 10 18:42:41 2013, there have been 25 modifications, 433 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 156 commands.  I have been awake for 12d 6h 37m 49s this session, and currently reference 119037 factoids.  I'm using about 24056 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3280.93/63.63 child 0.01/0
Apr 23 01:43:27 <Sc0rpius> 0 morons? that can't be right
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 23 02:59:58 2013