**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 29 02:59:59 2013 Jun 29 03:51:13 * DocScrutinizer05 congrats the new BoD members and thanks all those of electroate who bothered to vote Jun 29 03:53:08 http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=32 Jun 29 04:34:41 * chainsawbike needs to make more noise so he is considered "active enough" to vote :( Jun 29 04:35:37 eh? Jun 29 04:36:05 when "more noise" means some posts and ideally thanks on TMO then yes Jun 29 04:36:24 when "more noise" means some wiki edits then yes Jun 29 04:38:05 when "more noise" means creating a garage account and sending a mail to council to accept the fact that 3 months quarantine have successfully been passed then DEFINITELY yes Jun 29 04:39:10 but I'm sure for next election term, in 6 months, you will not have to bother about the mail thing at least Jun 29 04:40:38 well, 113 voters is not bad at all Jun 29 04:41:03 from a certain PoV Jun 29 04:41:25 it IS bad considering we sent out >6000 ballots Jun 29 04:42:54 poor polling: 2% Jun 29 04:44:04 considering we have 6000 out of 83000 garage users eligible to vote, that's even more depressing Jun 29 04:47:15 now there is 83001 :P Jun 29 04:47:34 :-) Jun 29 05:13:37 * DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to set up a Tor Onion router on maemo.org Jun 29 05:14:23 maybe in company with a freenode server Jun 29 07:09:04 GeneralAntilles: congrats Jun 29 07:09:47 GeneralAntilles: were you involved, or do you at least understand the vote counting process? Jun 29 07:12:36 if we have 2 out of 4 vote, and ballots a,d a,d a,d b,a b,d c,d - will the winners be a,b or a,d ? Jun 29 07:14:08 I'm afraid all but #1 votes are completely meaningless Jun 29 07:14:31 and result of above vote will be a,b Jun 29 07:15:15 which is kinda completely flawed and also misleading and counterintuitive Jun 29 07:16:36 Woody14619: ^^^ Jun 29 07:20:19 IMHO after election of one candidate that candidate should get eliminated from candidates list and get scrapped from all ballots, and then a new counting gets started with the remaining candidates and all the modified ballots Jun 29 07:24:26 so after election of 'a' in above example, the list of remaining candidates is b,c,d and the modified ballot batch is -,d -,d -,d b,- b,d c,d. HMM for this to make sense we need to count #1 *and* #2 from each ballot during counting #2 Jun 29 07:25:18 and consequently #1..#N for counting for candidate #N Jun 29 07:27:40 this "single transferable vote" system is completely inappropriate in my book - if I even understood how it works Jun 29 07:28:24 and particularly our voting web interface is completely inappropriate for single transferable vote system Jun 29 07:29:38 when *always* only first vote counts, then the voting interface MUST NOT allow multiple votes on a single ballot Jun 29 07:30:17 since this is almost cheating on electorate Jun 29 07:31:02 if e.g. *I* was aware of what I seem to know _now_, I most likely had voted different in all past votes Jun 29 07:36:56 if we have 3(!) out of 4 vote, and ballots a,d a,d a,d b,a b,d c,d - will the winners be a,b,c or a,d,b ? Jun 29 07:38:49 GeneralAntilles: you may copy this ^^^ to next MWKN Jun 29 07:45:34 I'm suggesting to discuss a possible change in election counting algo and eventual referendum to implement a more intuitive such algo Jun 29 07:49:47 HAH Jun 29 07:51:06 if we have 3 out of 4 vote, and ballots a,d a,d a,d a,c a,d a,d - how will that single transferable vote counting look like? Jun 29 07:51:41 and how if in same example we have a 2 out of 4? Jun 29 08:12:23 hmm, maybe forget about all that above, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote at least suggests that transfer of surplus votes is >>is transferred to other candidates according to the voter's stated preferences<< Jun 29 08:13:32 yet to find out how exactly that transfer according to voter's preferences happens Jun 29 08:25:21 sorry for the noise, I'm short on caffeine ;-D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote#Example finally was simple enough so even I was able to grok it. My above concerns are without sound base Jun 29 08:31:19 congrats to new BoD ;) Jun 29 08:31:32 so is it finally over? Jun 29 08:31:44 I saw the voting chart - someone made a mistake and voted for me Jun 29 08:31:58 kerio: it seems that the struggle is over Jun 29 08:33:12 yay for no more patent lawyers in our BoD! Jun 29 08:33:13 ^_^ Jun 29 08:34:35 well I'm somehow afraid that Jun 29 08:34:46 someone will pop out with a paragraph Jun 29 08:34:55 that the election is not valid Jun 29 08:35:02 end of paranoid mode :P Jun 29 08:42:57 nope, not likely to happen Jun 29 08:44:20 there might be arguments that while we have new BoD members elected now, there's nothing stating clearly that old members have to step down now. But no worries, I'm sure the new members know how to handle such case Jun 29 08:45:46 fw190: cong^Hsorry for you losing the elections :-) Jun 29 08:46:34 fw190: and damn sute a big thank you for running Jun 29 08:46:39 sure* Jun 29 08:47:07 you faciliated a BoD of 5 Jun 29 08:49:18 DocScrutinizer05: now as I got one vote I wonder what can I do to help BoD - maybe there will be a simple task which I can do Jun 29 08:49:51 I can not belie that one voter Jun 29 08:50:01 I'm sure the other guys will appreciate your offer and find sth for you Jun 29 08:50:09 splendid Jun 29 08:51:06 btw you for sure got more than one vote Jun 29 08:52:07 but that friggin STV algo doesn't consider anything lower than #1 vote until the #1 vote of that ballot got elected or kicked out Jun 29 08:52:49 I think we should discuss this STV thing and maybe find sth more intuitive and fair Jun 29 08:53:23 one way or the other I think that the future looks more optimistic right now Jun 29 08:53:35 yep \o/ Jun 29 08:55:17 5th ballot has you on #3, 7th on #4, 9th on #5 a.s.o Jun 29 08:55:50 alas with STV hardly anything but #1 and #2 counts ever Jun 29 08:56:58 so even if all voters would place you on #3 of their ballot, you probably wouldn't make it into elected crew Jun 29 08:58:15 [2013-06-29 09:20:18] IMHO after election of one candidate that candidate should get eliminated from candidates list and get scrapped from all ballots, and then a new counting gets started with the remaining candidates and all the modified ballots Jun 29 08:58:16 [2013-06-29 09:24:25] so after election of 'a' in above example, the list of remaining candidates is b,c,d and the modified ballot batch is -,d -,d -,d b,- b,d c,d. HMM for this to make sense we need to count #1 *and* #2 from each ballot during counting #2 Jun 29 08:58:18 [2013-06-29 09:25:17] and consequently #1..#N for counting for candidate #N Jun 29 09:00:13 you have to admit at very least that algo was more understandable than that friggin STV Jun 29 09:01:57 you could even simplify that: count all votes from #1 to #5 (so 5 votes per ballot), then pick the 5 candidates with highest number of votes Jun 29 09:02:30 ultrasimple, ultraclean, and IMHO more fair Jun 29 09:07:43 aiui in this election only the #2 votes of those who voted for woody, andrew, or ryan are considered at all. all the other voters' ballots count only for their #1 vote Jun 29 09:08:35 since hardly anybody placed you on #1 or #2 even, you dropped completely out of the picture Jun 29 09:13:07 could *anybody* explain THAT http://maemo.org/vote/blt.php?election_id=32 gibberish to me, please? Jun 29 09:16:41 incredibly obfuscated crap Jun 29 09:20:42 Doc I just steeped out so we could have 4 and vote so I'm not interested in the number of votes ;) Jun 29 09:21:59 hmm, seems first col (A) is bogus, cols 2/B to 7/G contain the candidates one ballot per row, and last col is always 0 for whatever termination reasons Jun 29 09:24:48 also the voting machine states >>Ballot file contains 6 candidates and 113 ballots.<< but I clearly see 114 ballots in the CSV download Jun 29 09:25:25 one-off origon-0 error? Jun 29 09:25:33 origin even Jun 29 09:27:44 fw190: but I'm interested in how that crap actually works, and I have to say I'm not amused about the way it obviously does Jun 29 09:31:11 DocScrutinizer05: well you have a point but this is the smallest of our small problems ;) Jun 29 09:33:00 fw190: I kinda gave up on assigning magnitueds to problems Jun 29 09:34:19 I have just 3 classes of problems here: showstoppers, big big problems, other stuff Jun 29 09:34:41 clearly this one is of category "other stuff" Jun 29 09:35:04 and it's in huge company there Jun 29 09:35:22 merlin1991: can you please bless https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2013-June/118298.html for me? Jun 29 09:36:57 ^^^ is one of category "big big problems" :-/ Jun 29 09:37:11 Oorgle? Jun 29 09:37:50 uh? Jun 29 09:38:04 What's the big big problem? Jun 29 09:38:21 the fux0red autobuilder/repo-mgmt Jun 29 09:38:51 or particularly >>ERROR running /etc/buildme.d/check_build: Unknown user.(root)<< I guess Jun 29 09:42:44 and in first derivative the fact that merlin1991 doesn't report in ##maemo-admin about his actions he's doing regarding and related to this Jun 29 09:44:27 so I have no clue what's currently the recommended procedure to "bless", not what's the root problem, nor what's the suggested solution and what is actually about to be done. Nor has any other of the maintainers and sysops Jun 29 09:45:05 except merlin1991 Jun 29 09:45:54 Yeah, i'll just wait for merlin1991 to show up. He made it work yesterday Jun 29 09:46:09 all that sums up for this one to make it to category "big big problem" Jun 29 09:46:18 lately I had more showstoppers though Jun 29 09:47:41 like vcs VM apache SSL creating >100MB logs per day, which filled our storage and brought everything to a grinding halt Jun 29 09:50:07 or the garage-sync job which suddenly stopped working due to user admin magically got fsckdup Jun 29 12:09:30 * DocScrutinizer05 looking at http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?r=week&cs=&ce=&c=maemo&h=www&tab=m&vn=&mc=2&z=medium&metric_group=ALLGROUPS with goose pimples Jun 29 12:19:15 * DocScrutinizer05 looks at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_Single_Transferable_Votes#Gregory and ponders instant nuking of the STV mess, asking for a referendum to replace STV by simple majority voting, each electorate member has N votes for a body of N (in last election: 5 [or less]), and then all votes (max 5 per ballot) are counted with no weighting and the 5 candidates with most votes make it Jun 29 12:52:05 DocScrutinizer05, I read it at the time, but didn't really understand it particularly well. Jun 29 12:52:22 it's a nightmare Jun 29 12:52:43 bottom line from my side 2 lines up ^^^ Jun 29 12:53:57 even wikipedia and STV website mention known problems with STV Jun 29 12:54:31 particularly for low numbers of ballots and/or very low or very high number of candidates Jun 29 12:55:15 and calculation of double-transferred votes is a nightmare of its ofn category Jun 29 12:55:27 own* Jun 29 12:56:32 and the whole concept seems to discriminate those who placed "losers" on #1 of their ballots Jun 29 12:57:37 while voting with the mainstream gets rewarded by offering you "a second vote" Jun 29 12:58:30 and I completely fail to see why we'd need that overly complicated and obfuscated algo for vote counting Jun 29 13:00:54 GeneralAntilles: aah, and congratulations! :-) Jun 29 13:01:38 I think these been some of the best elections we ever had, when looking at the results Jun 29 13:02:15 I'm positively surprised how many votes jaffa gathered Jun 29 13:03:07 already pondered if that's worth a master thesis, what determines the number of votes a certain person can achieve Jun 29 13:04:08 I mean, jaffa for sure earns it, but I'm surprised how many community members actually knew that, given the relatively sparese activity of jaffa during last several months Jun 29 13:05:42 so I wonder if majority of electorate are old school members who still remember "the good times", or if it just been our appropriately euphoric welcome to jaffa that pushed him Jun 29 13:06:10 or was it his introduction? Jun 29 13:12:25 GeneralAntilles: please consider joining #maemo-meeting in 2:45h Jun 29 13:12:59 GeneralAntilles: and maybe you know how to contact jaffa, to let him know about that meeting as well Jun 29 13:13:17 council wants to welcome new BoD :-) Jun 29 13:14:46 Woody14619: ^^^^ Jun 29 13:15:24 chem|st: ^^^^ Jun 29 13:15:34 :-D Jun 29 13:17:25 0617 for him. Jun 29 13:17:40 I'll ping him on Twitter, though. Jun 29 13:17:52 ugh? AM? Jun 29 13:17:59 Yeah, PDT. Jun 29 13:18:00 damn Jun 29 13:18:17 well, maybe another two hours help ;-) Jun 29 13:18:41 1600 UTC meeting time? Jun 29 13:18:44 yep Jun 29 13:19:05 OK Jun 29 13:19:10 :-) Jun 29 13:19:28 30min late probably no problem either Jun 29 13:20:59 I was pulling for RRV when the debates were going on. Jun 29 13:22:17 I don't even feel like checking what's RRV in wikipedia now. Another 60min of reading to understand that I probably didn't want to learn about it Jun 29 13:23:35 what's wrong with "N votes per electorate member for a body of N, then pick the 5 guys with the most votes"? Jun 29 13:24:56 we *might* augment that for "each vote not assigned is a vote for a virtual candidate that can get elected" Jun 29 13:25:18 Reweighted Range Voting Jun 29 13:25:25 0-100 for each candidate Jun 29 13:26:23 might make sense for a body with hierarchy Jun 29 13:26:34 which we don't have Jun 29 13:28:03 I'm pretty much for a "YAY or NAY" black or white vote. either you think some candidate is the right one for a body, or you don't wnat to see him / her in the body Jun 29 13:29:28 RRV lets voters describe their full preference. Jun 29 13:30:19 with amendment/augment you even can vote out candidates resulting in a list of >6 candidates not necessarily giving a council body of 5 but maybe only 3 Jun 29 13:32:12 whatever, seems to me both concepts >> STV Jun 29 13:33:38 not that it would've changed any of the last 3 or 4 or 5 elections in any way Jun 29 14:07:15 why can't I install aptitude? Jun 29 14:08:26 I wanted it to search the names of the non-busybox tools I want Jun 29 14:09:43 also, why does HAM have to be so slow? and it needs me to trigger a refresh to even get out of the black screen that simulates loading Jun 29 14:14:27 damnit Jun 29 14:14:31 DCed Jun 29 14:15:04 did I have any weird repos before? Jun 29 14:15:06 STV was chosen mostly on the basis of less voter confusion and simpler algorithms compared to RRV Jun 29 14:15:23 there's no aptitude and no *utils* at all Jun 29 14:15:34 RRV strikes me as much more intuitive. Jun 29 14:15:36 hi all, maybe someone know what causing that error when import private gpg key https://gist.github.com/drathir/5891221 isnt a bug in maemo gpg? Jun 29 14:16:00 eddyb9, apt-cache search Jun 29 14:16:13 GeneralAntilles: oh wow. thanks Jun 29 14:18:45 I've been having trouble with bad battery life and a hot phone for a while now and was"mt able to figure out what process caused the problems. I have since discovered that I get very good battery life when disabling cellular internet. On wifi it can easily last all day. When enabling cell internet (2.5G only, no 3G), it gets hot very quickly and drains the battry in a matter of hours. I only check mail and use 1 jabber and 1 SIP account. ... Jun 29 14:18:51 ... Any ideas how to diagnose what is wrong with the cell internet? Jun 29 14:19:20 well, disable those 3 one by one Jun 29 14:19:46 this SIP account is not 'Skype' perhaps? Jun 29 14:20:41 irc on 2.5g (and 3g) in poor signal (anyhing less than full bars) drains my batt fast too Jun 29 14:20:45 GeneralAntilles: indeed STV is absolutely counterintuitive and almost cheating on those who vote Jun 29 14:20:59 but in good signal, 2.5g irc lasts two days Jun 29 14:21:31 eddyb9: HAM has to be so slow to teach you some ZEN ;-D Jun 29 14:21:58 hi Jun 29 14:22:04 what's up, doc? Jun 29 14:22:47 Shapeshi1ter: make sure you get no unsolicited inbound packets Jun 29 14:22:57 like pinggs Jun 29 14:23:13 Shapeshi1ter: its normal i think the same to my device... Jun 29 14:23:19 Sicelo: no, skype is a bad drainer in my experience. I never had problems with the other protocols. Jun 29 14:23:36 We could probably start another discussion about changing if we got buy-in from a maintainer to deal with the voting software. Jun 29 14:23:55 :nod: Jun 29 14:24:04 which is Woody14619 ;-) Jun 29 14:24:08 wtf, does busybox contain binutils? Jun 29 14:24:21 btw mail is checked by periods and jabber keeding a session to not be dead... Jun 29 14:24:59 Seems like we should figure out how to do binary votes again, too. Jun 29 14:25:00 Shapeshi1ter: I recommend tschark Jun 29 14:25:08 tshark even Jun 29 14:26:26 Shapeshi1ter: anyway I blame your carrier for sending inbound traffic. Probably you're not protected by a NAT Jun 29 14:26:42 DocScrutinizer05: what's busybox-symlinks-binutils for? Jun 29 14:27:04 I'll try that. Maybe modest is fucking up. I see connections to 1n100.com even though I'm not online in gtalk... Jun 29 14:27:11 eddyb9: for messybox' binutils, I guess Jun 29 14:27:38 DocScrutinizer05: could be... I also see traffic from cache05.sunsrise.ch which is my provider... Jun 29 14:27:47 *sunrise Jun 29 14:28:00 check for inbound unsolicited traffic Jun 29 14:28:09 DocScrutinizer05: but how do binutils fit in there!? Jun 29 14:28:25 eddyb9: I don't get your question Jun 29 14:28:38 binutils are pretty big Jun 29 14:28:51 how/why did they put them in busybox Jun 29 14:28:59 except maybe, you're confusing messybox-genuine with messybox-power related stuff Jun 29 14:29:02 by halfassing, it Jun 29 14:29:37 don't ask me about messybox Jun 29 14:29:51 I'm not a known fan of it Jun 29 14:30:00 Shapeshi1ter: transparent proxy maybe from isp? Jun 29 14:30:10 me neither, I just saw that and I was baffled Jun 29 14:30:23 saw it where? Jun 29 14:30:33 in the search for "utils" Jun 29 14:30:47 meh, that doesn't mean you got it installed Jun 29 14:31:55 I used gnu-utils for a long time without much trouble, until procps caused conflicts with base busybox Jun 29 14:32:38 I still use all that, but now my installation is fux0red to the degree where no normal cssu-t upgrades possible Jun 29 14:32:40 and apt-cache doesn't tell you if something is installed already, so that's a bit annoying Jun 29 14:33:11 err yep, dpkg -*(lL?) does Jun 29 14:33:27 or dpkg -s or sth Jun 29 14:33:35 eddyb9: that not a pacman ^^ Jun 29 14:33:37 eddyb9: it does (somehow) :P Jun 29 14:33:55 and yeah actually it does Jun 29 14:34:09 apt-cache policy 'package' Jun 29 14:34:47 DocScrutinizer05: I reacted to the binutils thing because it implies that busybox has binutils in it. doesn't matter which *box, it still sounds ridiculous to me Jun 29 14:34:56 IroN900:~# apt-cache policy binutils Jun 29 14:34:57 binutils: Jun 29 14:34:59 Installed: 2.18.50.20070820-4+0m5 Jun 29 14:35:00 Candidate: 2.18.50.20070820-4+0m5 Jun 29 14:35:58 IroN900:~# apt-cache policy busybox-symlinks-binutils Jun 29 14:35:59 busybox-symlinks-binutils: Jun 29 14:36:01 Installed: (none) Jun 29 14:36:20 apt-cache show busybox-symlinks-binutils Jun 29 14:37:26 IroN900:~# apt-cache showpkg busybox-symlinks-binutils Jun 29 14:37:38 err yes Jun 29 14:38:14 it says it replaced binutils, with symlinks Jun 29 14:38:19 *replaces Jun 29 14:39:01 that implies busybox contains all of binutils in its main binary Jun 29 14:40:25 well, you can test that via "busybox " Jun 29 14:40:38 like "busybox gcc" Jun 29 14:41:01 no objdump, no as Jun 29 14:41:03 hmm... Jun 29 14:41:47 looks like a fsckdup pkg to me Jun 29 14:42:50 ask Maintainer: Yauheni Kaliuta ;-P Jun 29 14:44:50 dependencies look non-plausible to me (noob talking here) Jun 29 14:45:42 might have leaked from sb-x86 tools Jun 29 14:45:52 it has no deps or I didn't look right Jun 29 14:45:53 ^ looks like no idea about gpg :/ is any chance of official update gpg in maemo? Jun 29 14:46:06 right, it seems to have no deps Jun 29 14:46:38 apt-cache search gnu # gives me results with no gnu in them. good thing we have grep Jun 29 14:47:12 apt-cache search searches whole pkg description incl dependencies or somesuch Jun 29 14:47:47 lol. where's aptitude, anyway? Jun 29 14:48:05 some packages just fell off the face of the earth Jun 29 14:48:25 apt-cache search .*-gnu Jun 29 14:48:47 that's what I just gave to apt-get install. it works :P Jun 29 14:48:59 YAY there's a sed-gnu Jun 29 14:49:07 FU messybox! Jun 29 14:49:41 * Drathir missing zsh on maemo :/ Jun 29 14:49:49 I'm contemplating trying this on my N900 http://en.opensuse.org/HCL:BeagleBoard Jun 29 14:50:23 * DocScrutinizer05 waves and tries to head out and get some breakfast Jun 29 14:50:35 I'm expecting no acceleration and maybe broken wifi Jun 29 14:50:46 but the SoC is almost the same Jun 29 14:51:07 DocScrutinizer05: shortly lets kidnap the fridge? :p Jun 29 14:51:43 alas the gnomes are on strike, so I have to fill the fridge myself Jun 29 14:53:52 wait... if BeagleBoard (the original) uses the sam GPU, can't we just boot stuff meant for the BeagleBoard? Jun 29 14:55:25 lol. no Jun 29 14:56:15 what is actually different? Jun 29 14:56:36 the power management, the wifi chip, the broadband stuff Jun 29 15:00:39 power is twl4030 Jun 29 15:00:57 display is rather proprietary Jun 29 15:01:51 and of course all the other peripherals Jun 29 15:01:54 is the fb/pvr part different from the SoC (3530) used in BeagleBoard? Jun 29 15:02:41 from what I know, the internals of 3430 and 3530 are almost identical Jun 29 15:02:41 prolly not Jun 29 15:03:00 aiui they are completely identical Jun 29 15:03:18 is there anything external related to the display that's specific to N900? Jun 29 15:03:22 except maybe the HS stuff (which luckily isn't used on N900) Jun 29 15:03:41 high-speed USB? Jun 29 15:03:50 sure, the display controller is specific Jun 29 15:04:00 High Security Jun 29 15:04:18 oh. that could've been bad Jun 29 15:04:52 ask freemangordon_ for details regarding all that Jun 29 15:05:07 he made kernel 3.x.x run on n900 iirc Jun 29 15:05:28 for sure he knows a bit about HS Jun 29 15:05:30 so the display controller, power management and USB PHY or whatever are external Jun 29 15:05:49 power is standard twl4030 chip Jun 29 15:06:04 does it do PHY, also? Jun 29 15:06:16 TPS65950 Jun 29 15:06:21 I once read about all that stuff Jun 29 15:06:23 not on N900 Jun 29 15:06:32 I remember about a multi-purpose chip Jun 29 15:06:49 that's 65950 aka twl4030 Jun 29 15:06:55 companion chip Jun 29 15:07:08 65951 on N9 Jun 29 15:07:26 PHY on N900 is 1770 Jun 29 15:08:21 PHY on first silicon rev of 65950 been flawed Jun 29 15:08:38 or sth like that Jun 29 15:08:52 is it just me, or the specs I've seen on wikipedia for N9 aren't that much better than N900? Jun 29 15:09:08 it's just you Jun 29 15:09:22 then just the GPU? Jun 29 15:09:49 ooh, so Nokia worked around it instead of waiting for a new revision? ok, that explains that Jun 29 15:10:42 well, I'll try it if I can. if it doesn't boot, it's fine. I think I'll need uboot or bootmenu for it, are they both generic enough? Jun 29 15:10:50 twl4030 1. rev wasn't able to handle d+/- short detection for unattended fastcharging, or sth Jun 29 15:11:17 so they got 1770 which reliably detects D+/- short Jun 29 15:11:48 it's a 1740 with inverted D-/- (aka OTG?) signal Jun 29 15:12:00 interesting Jun 29 15:12:20 have a look at the schematics! ;-) Jun 29 15:12:32 ~schematics Jun 29 15:12:32 i guess schematics is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic Jun 29 15:13:13 I think I was looking for them at some point and couldn't find the interesting parts Jun 29 15:13:34 thanks for all the fish... err I mean info :P Jun 29 15:13:45 the only interesting parts missing atre parts labels ;-P Jun 29 15:14:05 and JTAG and UART3 Jun 29 15:14:44 the pins on the back? Jun 29 15:14:47 yup Jun 29 15:15:05 >50% of thise still unclear Jun 29 15:15:22 btw, at some point I realized I could just connect the battery with my breadboard wires Jun 29 15:15:26 prolly F-bus, JTAG, for sure UART3... Jun 29 15:15:37 I'm not sure I managed to pull that off, though Jun 29 15:16:07 I only remember I tried :)) Jun 29 15:16:15 * DocScrutinizer05 glares at his phoemix flasher "battery" plug Jun 29 15:16:27 phoenix even Jun 29 15:16:40 I should just buy one big electronics begginers kit or something Jun 29 15:16:59 a pair of crocodiles would've worked fine with the battery, I think Jun 29 15:17:40 power to battery won't pan out unless you care for proper BSI R or shutdown bme Jun 29 15:17:49 ~hotswap Jun 29 15:17:49 hotswap is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734 Jun 29 15:19:30 BSI R is 75k iirc Jun 29 15:20:09 (except for mugen and "test battery") Jun 29 15:20:42 I wanted to hook the battery to the pins without it being in place Jun 29 15:21:00 damn, I should've been shopping slready, to make it to meeting in 40min Jun 29 15:21:13 eddyb9: I got you Jun 29 15:21:44 take care about BSI or device will shut down Jun 29 15:22:19 either attacj 75kR from BSI to GND or "stop bme" Jun 29 15:22:25 eddy9 i made a cable to connect the battery out of an old cdrom audio cable Jun 29 15:22:58 nifty Jun 29 15:24:55 Mr_Stupid: hah, cool Jun 29 15:25:26 DocScrutinizer05: nah I didn't want to do it with the device on Jun 29 15:25:53 * DocScrutinizer05 recalls the "battery plugs" they had at openmoko to feed device via lab PSU: made of 20 red and 20 black wires 1mm^2 each and laced to a pigtail Jun 29 15:26:04 yeah :) Jun 29 15:26:42 ESR of "battery" <50mR mandatory Jun 29 15:27:00 at least for lap testing purposes Jun 29 15:27:04 lab* Jun 29 15:27:17 what's 50mR? Jun 29 15:27:25 0.05R Jun 29 15:27:33 aka Ohm Jun 29 15:27:43 ahhhh, i see Jun 29 15:28:43 max allowed ripple on VDD for modem rather low, while modem eats spikes of >>2A Jun 29 15:29:40 GSM TX can't meed regulatory specs when ripple too high Jun 29 15:29:48 meet, damn Jun 29 15:30:05 Modem get's destroyed or just can't TX? Jun 29 15:30:17 TX looks like dogshit Jun 29 15:30:31 will still work but carriers are unhappy Jun 29 15:31:21 Carriers won't recognize, because they are just banks now Jun 29 15:31:24 TX quality has to meet certain standards to get approval for device Jun 29 15:31:50 anyway Jun 29 15:31:53 ..... Jun 29 15:32:14 I might be late to meeting, sorry Jun 29 15:32:51 will try to join via N900 Jun 29 15:37:01 meh useless Jun 29 15:37:17 I'll leave meeting after max 45min Jun 29 15:38:00 though I dunno how to stand that meeting without milk for my coffee Jun 29 15:38:33 Kein Wirkungstrinker? Jun 29 15:38:51 eddyb9: you might find some usefull stuff on Jun 29 15:38:54 ~jrtools Jun 29 15:38:54 from memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jun 29 15:40:00 Mr_Stupid: yep indeed I am, but effect is calories as much as caffeine Jun 29 15:40:34 and black coffe (or no coffe) makes me grumpy Jun 29 15:41:35 I want to go shopping, too. But it's raining all the time. Jun 29 15:41:40 Mr_Stupid: you could come by and bring me some milk ;-D Jun 29 15:41:59 I don't have milk ;) Jun 29 15:42:37 But i have got alot of formic acid Jun 29 15:43:17 hmm? Jun 29 15:43:32 * DocScrutinizer05 looks out the window Jun 29 15:43:53 UGH, indeed started raining again Jun 29 15:44:17 ~weather eddn Jun 29 15:44:18 I want to make conductive silver ink and i need formic acid for that. I wanted to order 250 ml but now i have 25l. Jun 29 15:44:20 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.06.29 1520 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 87%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 60 F (16 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Weather: Towering cumulus clouds observed; Wind: Variable at 3 MPH (3 KT) Jun 29 15:45:59 Hmmm i could rly bring you some milk, i'm in F�rth :) Jun 29 15:47:04 takes too long to come here, meeting starts in 15min Jun 29 15:48:39 * DocScrutinizer05 heats up some Ravioli, prepares a tea Jun 29 15:48:49 :-S Jun 29 15:49:04 Tea without milk is ok for you? Jun 29 15:49:19 better than coffee w/o milk Jun 29 15:58:39 * GeneralAntilles considers getting the jump on forcing somebody else to be chair. Jun 29 15:59:17 HAHAHA already?! Jun 29 16:03:30 1-2-3 Jun 29 16:03:34 NOT IT! Jun 29 16:06:39 hehe Jun 29 16:06:55 play that game on #maemo-meeting ? Jun 29 16:14:56 didn't know you could substitute formic acid for milk Jun 29 16:26:16 pong Jun 29 16:29:34 hello, does anyone here have the current maemo-flasher-3.5 for linux (tar.gz) laying around? the downloadlink on teblets-dev.nokia.com is not working :( Jun 29 16:32:54 mkaindl: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php working here Jun 29 16:33:26 if u get Content Corrupted Error on firefox, use another browser Jun 29 16:33:33 the .tar.gz one? Jun 29 16:33:57 yes, just downloaded it Jun 29 16:34:18 what error do u get?? Jun 29 16:35:13 mkaindl: it should be working Jun 29 16:35:20 i get the corruptet content with firefox Jun 29 16:35:51 and if i download it with wget and try to untar it, gzip complains about it not beeing a gzip-file Jun 29 16:36:14 file says, ists assembler source text Jun 29 16:36:17 I'm on windows, used internet explorer and worked fine Jun 29 16:36:17 you're aware you can't directly go to the link? Jun 29 16:36:26 you need to nod off the eula Jun 29 16:36:52 not sure about what causes this Content Corrupted error Jun 29 16:37:07 anyway, flasher-3.5.tgz also available on maemo.cloud-7.de Jun 29 16:37:12 it downloaded fine from internet explorer and can be unzpped Jun 29 16:38:36 yes, i did nod of the eula in ff, in wget not really possible ;) Jun 29 16:39:04 and it uses some scripting stuff, so its not possible to use links or so either Jun 29 16:45:19 mkaindl: downkoad manager any using? Jun 29 16:47:09 nope Jun 29 16:47:36