**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 07 02:59:58 2013 Jul 07 03:09:17 SpeedEvil: lol Jul 07 03:09:25 UNLIMITED MEANS UNLIMITED! Jul 07 03:09:44 i can see it now... doors getting kicked in for massive mms song distribution Jul 07 03:10:12 hm. i'm goign to test out this handbrake thing a few more times and try to export it so someone can put it on the wiki to replace the ancient plist that is on there now Jul 07 03:10:15 heh Jul 07 03:10:31 although for whatever reason i can only get handbrake to do 848x480 Jul 07 03:10:48 it doesn't seem to want to use 854.. i'm sure you can force it but i doubt those 11 pixels matter much :) Jul 07 03:10:59 er... 6 Jul 07 03:11:33 could be due to cropping too but who knows. you would think that the default video player could at least stretch :) Jul 07 03:14:59 The Adam generates a surge of electromagnetic energy on startup, which can erase the contents of any removable media left in or near the drive. Jul 07 03:20:41 SpeedEvil, is it possible to send that many mms> Jul 07 03:20:43 ? Jul 07 03:20:46 or sms even Jul 07 03:21:03 macer - I've had better luck with transmageddon Jul 07 03:30:44 GI_Jack: i would rather use the tablet-encode mencoder wrapper Jul 07 03:30:56 but sometimes the subs and audio tracks get a little messed up especially with anime heh Jul 07 03:53:28 RST38h: what? Jul 07 08:43:38 Macer: propabbly try to keep aspect ratio... oh if you want small files you need avc use in avidemux... Jul 07 08:50:21 mornin... Jul 07 08:51:07 DocScrutinizer05: where you find that module-x11-bel in pactl -list i dont see them. Jul 07 09:00:10 any one using megan power battery, I am thinking to buy it Jul 07 09:00:20 hi dockane Jul 07 09:00:22 DocScrutinizer05, Jul 07 09:04:00 Drathir: http://www.richud.com/wiki/Ubutu_Beep_Audible_Bell_Ping_Fix Jul 07 09:04:28 hi Jul 07 09:10:30 Drathir: handbrake made them small enough Jul 07 09:10:43 turned 500MB files into 100MB Jul 07 09:11:00 thats good enough. i have a 32GB sd in my n900 Jul 07 09:11:17 i managed to get some awesome looking files going Jul 07 09:11:45 at a decent size so im happy. the preset actually changes the res too which handbrake was a pain at doing Jul 07 09:12:08 im sure i can get them to look even better at the expense of time Jul 07 09:13:44 wow what's up with maemo.org? lol Jul 07 09:13:54 it's taking like 20mins to download 125K heh Jul 07 09:14:50 Drathir: might help as well, as usually xterm or console is responsible to play sound: http://inz.fi/blog/category/geeky/maemo/maemo-hackers/osso-xterm/ Jul 07 09:15:20 inz: you know any deatl about beep/bell sound? Jul 07 09:17:39 detail even Jul 07 09:21:28 the classical way to create a beep sound is afaik via IOCTRL to /dev/console: http://www.net-security.org/article.php?id=83&p=3 Jul 07 09:23:14 I am thinking to order mugen power for n900 , I know it come from honkkong and it take long time shipping Jul 07 09:23:18 any one using it? Jul 07 09:23:48 a few do Jul 07 09:23:52 or did Jul 07 09:24:12 * win7mac wonders if this is a good solution for audio meetings: http://openmeetings.apache.org/ Jul 07 09:24:46 win7mac, openmeeting or bbb Jul 07 09:24:58 both are good, bbb have also html5 support Jul 07 09:25:04 bbb? Jul 07 09:25:10 bigbluebutton Jul 07 09:25:30 but openmeeting have support more them 100 users in same time Jul 07 09:25:39 it depend what you need Jul 07 09:25:43 no clue a bigbluebutton Jul 07 09:25:59 search in google , both are opensource Jul 07 09:26:13 I have investigate both , and I am using bbb Jul 07 09:26:17 work great Jul 07 09:26:59 openmeeting have more secure then bbb, you can manage rooms and so, in bbb its modrator and user Jul 07 09:27:36 I manage to connect bbb to ldap server Jul 07 09:27:37 We need a service for HiFo-meetings on a regular basis, preferrably available (through browser) from our N9xxs Jul 07 09:27:52 how money users? Jul 07 09:28:07 win7mac, do u have gtalk or messanger Jul 07 09:28:12 i would like to help Jul 07 09:28:55 or privet chat , its also ok Jul 07 09:28:57 well, board is 7, if council joins too then it'd be 12 peeps Jul 07 09:29:13 board is 7 at max Jul 07 09:29:14 go with bbb Jul 07 09:29:19 for 12 users Jul 07 09:29:31 for small meeting bbb will do great job Jul 07 09:30:03 I don't use gtalk or messanger. we need audio Jul 07 09:30:15 you can also record meetings and stream them like in youtube Jul 07 09:30:37 bbb support both audio, video, text chat Jul 07 09:30:46 sounds good, am looking into BBB... Jul 07 09:31:05 win7mac, I meant to chat in privat with you Jul 07 09:31:11 sorry about my bad english Jul 07 09:31:48 DocScrutinizer05, I want to buy it (mugen power) but its expensive Jul 07 09:32:04 is it worth this price or there are alternatives? Jul 07 09:32:14 My question is also to techstaff if this is desireable and doable Jul 07 09:32:32 to have it self-hosted Jul 07 09:33:44 Important is that it works on N900 and N9 for max. reach Jul 07 09:34:01 U mean the client? Jul 07 09:34:10 if n900 support flash , it will work Jul 07 09:34:30 bbb and openmeeting have flash client Jul 07 09:34:37 bbb has also html5 client Jul 07 09:34:56 flash or html5 Jul 07 09:35:07 btw: n900 have support for html5? Jul 07 09:35:13 flash is a problem on N9, latest version is 10.1 Jul 07 09:35:31 which is totally outdated Jul 07 09:42:43 win7mac: what about N900 flash? Last proper version is 9 Jul 07 09:43:53 roll along html5 and supporting browsers... Jul 07 09:44:33 for N900 there's a flash-tweak: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59336 Jul 07 09:45:06 I think it will work win7mac Jul 07 09:45:12 I found this: Jul 07 09:45:15 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1295928&postcount=2268 Jul 07 09:47:24 note I said 'proper version' ;) Jul 07 09:48:09 sixwheeledbeast, n900 have support for html5? Jul 07 09:48:47 not fully, but it depends on the browser anyway. Jul 07 09:49:09 Alopex is the best so far. Jul 07 09:49:26 thankyou Jul 07 09:49:44 most do html5 but not html5 video Jul 07 09:50:08 I see Jul 07 09:50:48 I am thinking to buy mugen power for n900, is it worth this price? is there other alternarnive? Jul 07 09:51:07 what about html5 on N9, which browser can handle it? Jul 07 09:52:47 DrCode: http://wiki.maemo.org/Web_browser Jul 07 09:53:06 I found the link :) Jul 07 09:53:29 ok Jul 07 09:53:31 thankyou Jul 07 09:55:09 Just saw that Firefox for N9 supports Opus audio codec in html5 Jul 07 09:57:32 DocScrutinizer05, what do you think about the idea of self-hosted web conferencing? Jul 07 10:05:31 I don't like the idea of audio web connferences Jul 07 10:06:17 Me too, but it's mandatory for HiFo-meetings Jul 07 10:10:52 only for agreement of details/decisions I believe, meeting can be IRC for somethings. Jul 07 10:11:11 yep Jul 07 10:11:17 DocScrutinizer05: thanks a lot i goin to read that links... Jul 07 10:11:42 It could be usefull for other use cases too. openmeetings features a calendar too Jul 07 10:13:38 I'd just prefer it over any other external, proprietory web-service Jul 07 10:14:30 agreed Jul 07 10:14:36 Macer: yes but handbrake quality is much worse than avidemux in that same size... Jul 07 10:22:57 DrCode: Jul 07 10:22:59 [2013-07-04 23:14:22] mugen is bulky, costly, and not even pulling the sausage off your hotdog Jul 07 10:23:00 [2013-07-04 23:14:51] for special needs it might be right solution Jul 07 10:23:17 [2013-07-04 23:00:51] on a less facetious note, I can't give any recommendation without info that allows to evaluate whether e.g. mugen will even help on what you want to accomplish Jul 07 10:23:18 [2013-07-04 23:03:15] when you want 24h of maemo-hotspot operation, mugen will hardly be the right choice. When you want to do geocaching, then probably an external powerpack is a poor advice Jul 07 10:25:07 ok Jul 07 10:25:09 thnku Jul 07 10:28:07 win7mac: looks like ts server :p Jul 07 10:29:04 ts server? Jul 07 10:30:36 https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-07-05.log.html Jul 07 10:31:00 win7mac: teamspeak Jul 07 10:33:12 ah, thanks. But that does not work on N9xx :( Jul 07 10:34:12 why not? Jul 07 10:34:17 interesting if is any plugin to pidgin connected with ts... Jul 07 10:34:47 but good idea i check if ts is avaible for alarm... Jul 07 10:36:41 and how it works throught chroot Jul 07 10:37:50 in maemo mumble is avaible if good see Jul 07 10:40:08 mumble is similar alternative to teamspeak Jul 07 10:41:46 server i think can be easly run on one of maemo server... Jul 07 10:41:47 anyway I guess every maemo devel is free to port and build TS-client, no? Jul 07 10:42:09 TS-server can run anywhere Jul 07 10:42:35 yes i think por oft will be good too... Jul 07 10:42:55 por oft? Jul 07 10:42:59 but can be something why also ts isnt avaible on alarm :/ Jul 07 10:43:06 port* Jul 07 10:43:30 port of* letters running im sorry... Jul 07 10:44:33 www.youtube.com/embed/uJkQzLjYBFI Jul 07 10:45:58 well, that's maybe intriguing but not really any new Jul 07 10:46:58 there been more useful concepts to locate WiFi clients in buildings on sub-meter precision, using modified "normal" accesspoints Jul 07 10:49:57 but there isnt needed 3 recivers of signal to calculate vailid data? Jul 07 10:53:01 checking strehght of signal and time answer of device should give not good calculated values i think... Jul 07 10:57:01 yes, this indoor WiFi localization works with multiple AP that precisely evaluate signal travel time from WiFi client to AP Jul 07 10:57:06 afaik Jul 07 10:59:13 In principle, one signal may give you information. Jul 07 10:59:13 there are also other concepts that use reflections and interferences Jul 07 10:59:17 http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~anindya/Paul_Wan_Plans08.pdf Jul 07 10:59:19 This is ... Jul 07 11:00:06 Reflections and multipath contain information too. One signal source, and one reciever can't ideally be located. But - once you move outside of the ideal world with no objects, and reflections, it's not inconcievable something can be done. Jul 07 11:00:35 For example, bounces off other objects effectively add other 'receivers'. Jul 07 11:00:48 yes Jul 07 11:01:03 basically the "fingerprint" method Jul 07 11:01:09 And obstructions do similar - in principle determinable things. Jul 07 11:01:38 It's basically then the fun question of - can you make this a functional location system, not a laboratory curiosity'. Jul 07 11:01:47 for GSM I was a little fuzzy mixing both concepts in my GSM-positioning_revisited post Jul 07 11:03:35 In principle, 60GHz APs may make this even easier. As multi-antenna synthetic apatrure antennas become smaller. Jul 07 11:03:45 But this is some time away. Jul 07 11:04:01 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html Jul 07 11:05:04 In first post I elaborated a bit about fingerprint, while in follow-up post I focused on signal-delay methos Jul 07 11:05:09 method* Jul 07 11:06:19 err, is this related to audio confernce? Jul 07 11:07:28 No Jul 07 11:07:33 Well - not directly Jul 07 11:07:59 It is sort-of-related to echo cancelling which is important for audio conferencing. Jul 07 11:08:12 And, indeed, audio positioning is another possible technology Jul 07 11:16:59 hehehehe Jul 07 11:18:23 and this also should works with waves secured cages rooms if someone can get network acces to inside the room,and when from outside cant track with this method thats change... Jul 07 11:19:01 * DocScrutinizer05 still feels ignored on this deemed brilliant contribution to GSM based positioning done in 2008 Jul 07 11:19:55 (audio postioning) I already suggested that for SIRI Jul 07 11:20:05 (... the apple thing) Jul 07 11:20:57 there's a friggin LOT you can do with a huge number of microphones distributed across an area Jul 07 11:22:54 *from crazy/stupid ideas* audio positioning will be good in case with phone loud speaker to auto adjust mic sensivity... Jul 07 11:23:35 with as little as 5..10 mics in an area of 500..1000^2 meter^m, you can not only do time correlation of non-realtime signals of those 10 mics, you also can build a audio-based environment image of the whole scene, by locating all other sound sources in relation to all the mics Jul 07 11:24:41 Drathir: well, mic sensitivity is rather precisely known, my usecase for this is to adjust speaker volume according to environment noise Jul 07 11:25:00 another patent pending I never seen implemented in any phone Jul 07 11:25:23 DocScrutinizer05: that will be good with connection of city cams to trscking a car accidents faster i think and also detect a crines faster with localisation... Jul 07 11:25:24 e.g for ringtone that is hush in a silent environment but max volume in noisy environment Jul 07 11:26:05 DocScrutinizer05: yes thats also will be great idea... Jul 07 11:26:07 Drathir: yes, absolutely feasible Jul 07 11:29:44 anyway if good remember in one episode of nscsi they tracking wit mic very sensitive and little diversion a sniper location when shut they calculate where sound come and catch the shuter - that can be fiction only but think its is possible to implement in real world... Jul 07 11:30:15 bad side is that goverment can easier listen anything what need :p Jul 07 11:30:15 CSI is basically fiction. Jul 07 11:30:32 But audio detection of shots are real. Jul 07 11:30:36 And location. Jul 07 11:31:29 SpeedEvil: the best for me is eureka is mostly a fiction but a lot of things and teories used in that are true... Jul 07 11:31:41 (NCSI) yes, and that was one of the few absolutely (scientifically) correct details in this series Jul 07 11:32:03 NCIS? Jul 07 11:33:22 I don't agree on EUREKA though Jul 07 11:33:30 DocScrutinizer05: yes misstype correct is NCIS Jul 07 11:33:42 not a single detail I seen in this series been based on anything realistic Jul 07 11:34:00 not even faintly Jul 07 11:34:54 bozon pice and bridge ainstein rozen if good remember theory in real life is the same... Jul 07 11:35:30 mumble seems an option, I found a client for N900, but not for N9 though. Could someone port it?: http://maemo.org/packages/view/mumble/ Jul 07 11:36:20 win7mac: for n900 is inside repo, n9 using new ones? Jul 07 11:36:25 * DocScrutinizer05 has a funny idea for an iPhone and/or android app: playback of live audio via speakers with parametric centrally controlled delay (ms-range up to some seconds) plus equalizer. In a scene like e.g a football stadium this might create an awesome versatile audio playback machine with very unique properties Jul 07 11:37:09 Drathir, I have no clue Jul 07 11:37:24 iPhone/android due to number of devices out in the wild / out in a football stadium Jul 07 11:37:57 DocScrutinizer05: yea live streming at phone with change of camera angle and zoom... Jul 07 11:38:44 you probably could create multiple hotspots with a dedicated audio signal audible only on this 2*2m area Jul 07 11:39:18 while the "speakers" (iPhones) are all more than 50m away from that hotspot Jul 07 11:40:02 WOW, what a fiction Jul 07 11:40:52 you probably could help find a solution for our real life problems too :p Jul 07 11:41:50 walk thru a field of a few thousand speakers that seemings only emit a hush white noise signal, and in one precise location you suddenly hear a very clear and loud voice or other meaningful audio, while 10m further you get yet another equally loud and crisp other audio signal Jul 07 11:41:52 also nanobots technology in theory also would ba a possible to make, in now can programming a cells to attack only cancer changed cels but this is a experimental methods... that eureka have more things that are rally close real life things r correct with real life one theory about something... but strictly is a sf serial... Jul 07 11:42:18 win7mac: I don't see any recent real life problems Jul 07 11:43:45 we still need a solution for our audio-meetings Jul 07 11:43:59 anyway wifi nework with very useful to FEMA ? with critical situations i think... is most decentralised high avaible site on the planet... Jul 07 11:44:15 with = can be * Jul 07 11:44:19 a long-term solution and one for next meeting ~next week Jul 07 11:45:10 (massive multi speaker audio system, MMSAS:) for that app I mentioned above, you'd probably want to receive and delay&EQ&mix multiple RTP streams, one for each audio signal hotspot Jul 07 11:46:09 or you'd need one dedicated RTP stream for each speaker/phone Jul 07 11:47:32 with a 32kbps (half of ISDN) a single beefy server still could stream up to 1000 or 2000 such RTP clients Jul 07 11:49:10 but in theory if anny attack happend the main satelities and other communications sources should be on the target but isnt possible to shut off all avaible wifi routers exclude emp, but emp also have a area only usage... Jul 07 11:49:30 smart algos to dither the particular RTP streams so for each hotspot the distortions of the single onbe of 1000s of speakers would get leveled out by the other 999, could help to reduce bandwidth needs even further Jul 07 11:50:20 yea with corection of position that system could be better than sorruond on stadium, but first bateries in phones should evolued... Jul 07 11:50:42 hehe Jul 07 11:51:21 but you got a point there, each phone needs a very precise idea about own position in relation to other phones and to scene Jul 07 11:51:52 so we probably need a realtime calibration means as well Jul 07 11:52:10 that be really better than few big sound speakers when thousen of small ones was using with synchronised way with correction of where sound placed... Jul 07 11:52:52 andecologic way stadium will be using a less of power :p Jul 07 11:53:00 which isn't that hard to implement, since it's irrelevant when a single phone stops playback for a 5s and listens with own mic to environment, which gives precise location according to previous idea of audio positioning :-D Jul 07 11:54:14 dman, such a system is a *dream* to play with Jul 07 11:54:57 cloud computing looks like stone age against it Jul 07 11:55:27 but interesting for me is that battery evolue is stopping by *big daddy* or we real dont have any technologic possibilities to improve a battery life time... Jul 07 11:56:05 next step in battery technology will come from nano technology probably Jul 07 11:56:20 carbon nanotubes etc Jul 07 11:56:54 yes cloud have a big power and i think its a future of all... not one place but decentralised data with strong encryption to specified device sending of data... Jul 07 11:56:59 in battery all is about active surface of anodes Jul 07 11:57:39 and about ion transport Jul 07 11:58:08 both might massively improve by using nanotubes, buckyballs, etc Jul 07 11:58:22 That's discharge capacity. Jul 07 11:58:29 Which is already good enough. Jul 07 11:58:35 sadly and iraccionally most clean energy will be forom atomic or hydra source... Jul 07 11:58:41 You can buy li-ion rated for 40C discharge Jul 07 11:59:08 The next revolution is the one that makes batteries cheaper. Jul 07 11:59:23 sure, but you can't make anode active material 3 times thicker and get 3 times the capacity Jul 07 11:59:24 SpeedEvil: how cheap, exactly? Jul 07 11:59:27 You cannot buy a battery that will store more than its purchase price in normal electicity Jul 07 11:59:42 ah, energy density? Jul 07 12:00:01 china ones are cheap , but noone guarantire that dont explode you when charging them... :p Jul 07 12:00:39 If that changed - so that the integrated price / (charge * cycle count ) was a fifth of grid electricity - then disconnecting from the grid would be feasible for a _large_ number of people. Jul 07 12:01:18 It needs of the order of a tenfold drop to make practical in sunny places. Jul 07 12:01:32 anyway sadly sunenergy is still so badly using to charging :/ Jul 07 12:01:52 there are some exotic battery chemistry that have better joule/buck on large scale, like e.g sulfur battery. Alas sulfur battery needs ~400°C operating temp iirc Jul 07 12:02:30 DocScrutinizer05: 400C internal temp, or ambient? Jul 07 12:02:41 interbal of course ;-P Jul 07 12:03:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium–sulfur_battery Jul 07 12:04:11 "operating temperatures of 300 to 350 °C" sorry I was 100..50° off Jul 07 12:04:33 atomic source should be the best one i think, but should have a very stable and non distroyable box to contain that battery... Jul 07 12:04:39 DocScrutinizer05: Well - not quite. There have been recent advances in wierd sodium-sulphur batteries at room temperature. Jul 07 12:04:54 wow Jul 07 12:06:10 http://ma.ecsdl.org/content/MA2012-02/2/22.full.pdf - aha Jul 07 12:07:06 'The Jul 07 12:07:06 initial capacity was 700 mA h g-1 and coulombic Jul 07 12:07:06 effeciency was more than 95%.' Jul 07 12:09:01 that knnd atomic battery in theory dont need be exchange throught years and if amount of place used for battery will be possibly small that can be universal source of power... but now is more possible solar+wireless energy ones... Jul 07 12:09:34 Drathir: This is never going to happen until all wars are eliminated, and all people are nice. Jul 07 12:09:57 i read sonething in china or japan they made a wireless power distributon source and working... Jul 07 12:10:00 Radioisotope power sources are pretty much inherently very dangerous if you disperse them. Jul 07 12:10:19 but for now for little range of use that... Jul 07 12:15:09 >>In March 2011, Sumitomo Electric Industries and Kyoto University announced that they had developed a low temperature molten sodium ion battery that can output power at temperatures under 100 °C. The batteries would have double the energy density of Li-ion and considerably lower cost. Sumitomo Electric Industry CEO Masayoshi Matsumoto indicated that the company aimed to begin production in 2015. Initial applications would be buildings Jul 07 12:15:10 SpeedEvil: yes but strange to say that is most clean source of energy without any accidents the ime of work is much more than nedded, and main problem is ho to make it works in small box and how to secure that box to not be able to destroy it in any kind of way... solar+wireles also looks clean but is something needed to make the energy in second and in first source is shared from sun avaibility... Jul 07 12:15:11 and buses.<< Jul 07 12:15:50 Drathir: There are basically no 'indestructable' boxes possible. Jul 07 12:16:00 Drathir: Other than casually deterring people without tools. Jul 07 12:16:26 Drathir: Or delaying an attack for a few moments while security can stop the attacker. Jul 07 12:16:45 DocScrutinizer05: but question is what will be a size of that hot batteries, sadly maybe need to place for get out the warming temperature? Jul 07 12:17:25 Drathir: If the battery is a cubic meter - you don't care about the time to warm it - you simply wrap it in insulation so it stays warm. Jul 07 12:17:36 yes Jul 07 12:17:50 vacuum (dewar) isolation Jul 07 12:17:55 oh in that way... Jul 07 12:18:04 * SpeedEvil almost bought a 200l dewar on ebay. Jul 07 12:18:09 I'm sorry I diddn't in a way. Jul 07 12:18:10 hehe Jul 07 12:18:20 It'd have made an excellent hot-water cylinder. Jul 07 12:18:27 indeed Jul 07 12:18:56 but those dewar containments are kinda pita to handle Jul 07 12:19:21 In principle, yes. Jul 07 12:19:26 there are vacuumized silica sealed isolation plates for buildings nowadays Jul 07 12:20:08 Which are annoyingly expensive - also small ones suck - the edge leak is quite significant. Jul 07 12:20:09 allegedly they keep vacuum for at least 10 years Jul 07 12:20:26 :nod: Jul 07 12:20:28 possible Jul 07 12:21:06 In some places they are worth it - simply as if you have 100m^2 of wall, and you can make the walls 10cm thinner - bingo - 10m^2 of extra space that you can sell. Jul 07 12:21:11 well, nothing an additional 20cm of polystyrene foam couldn't realistically solve Jul 07 12:21:18 And in some places land prices make that worth it. Jul 07 12:21:45 yep Jul 07 12:22:16 in a car or bus I think dewar/vacuum is also a great choice, due to volume Jul 07 12:22:36 for a hot water storage inhouse though... Jul 07 12:23:17 With insulation in houses - especially for high temperature stuff - you run into fundamental limits. Jul 07 12:23:52 If you have an isotropic insulator, then if you put more than about a couple of diameters of insulation on a pipe - you're not going to get any improvement Jul 07 12:24:25 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders what's an isotropic isolator Jul 07 12:25:02 but I guess I see what you say Jul 07 12:25:20 tmperature gradient in isolator vs surface Jul 07 12:25:39 makes thick isolation of tubes a futile effort Jul 07 12:25:43 An insulator that is the same in all directions Jul 07 12:25:55 Same with insulation of hot water tanks. Jul 07 12:26:23 yeah, rather get a perfect ball as containment Jul 07 12:26:40 to minimize surface Jul 07 12:27:10 a cube might be almost as good Jul 07 12:27:34 Even then - you're faced with a pretty stark limit if you need to store - say - 10l of water. Jul 07 12:27:43 It's admittedly not so bad for 100l. Jul 07 12:29:14 :nod: Jul 07 12:29:46 only ratiometric though, the absolute loss still is higher Jul 07 12:30:15 IOW it doesn't make sense to store 100L when you only need 10 Jul 07 12:30:26 err right? Jul 07 12:30:55 of course right Jul 07 12:32:51 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders what's more efficient: one 100L ball or 10 * 10L balls, given you "empty/fill" them one after the other completely, rather than taking 10% out of each Jul 07 12:35:55 a tower of 10 10L balls might be more economic if you usually have a "filling" of 50%, I guess. Compared to one large ball with a hot upper and a cold lower half that are not isolated against each other Jul 07 12:37:09 getting worse for less filling, on 10% fill it becomes obvious Jul 07 12:38:05 Storing 100l loses more heat than 10l. But not that much more heat. Jul 07 12:38:10 a battery of 20 usual 10L warm water boilers that only 1 or 2 of them are hot beats your dewar 200L hands down Jul 07 12:38:21 Proportionately - the 10l container loses a _lot_ more heat faster. Jul 07 12:40:13 And off to the garden to finish making a fruit-cage before the birds eat all my blackcurrants Jul 07 12:40:25 hey! hurry Jul 07 12:41:05 the strawberries too! Jul 07 12:41:07 goddamnit Jul 07 12:41:15 and don't forget my 2013-raspberry marmelade please! :-D Jul 07 12:41:45 best raspberry marmelade I ever had Jul 07 13:40:58 :) Jul 07 13:41:04 No raspberries this year Jul 07 13:41:19 Virus issues - I pulled them, and will be replanting next year. Jul 07 13:46:02 :< Jul 07 13:47:11 * ShadowJK 's hotwater tank is some 300l Jul 07 13:52:07 Any alternatives to modest that are any better? Jul 07 13:52:11 With large inboxes, modest is eating up my battery and for a few days now I can't access gmail accounts anymore (wrong user name or password) Jul 07 13:53:58 I think the only alternative would be webmail or that Claws port Jul 07 13:55:13 Shapeshifter: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/c/claws-mail/ Jul 07 13:55:30 cant really tell you how good or bad it is though Jul 07 13:55:52 hm Jul 07 13:55:56 I tried claws a while ago and it was pretty shit. not well optimized for mobile use Jul 07 13:56:03 i guess you are out of luck then Jul 07 13:56:09 but not sure Jul 07 13:56:49 awe man... I don't want either an android nor a windows phone but the n900 is getting increasingly annoying to use every day Jul 07 13:57:59 yeah, ive even gone as far as overclocking to make it bearable Jul 07 13:58:04 and buying an n9 thats now mostly unused Jul 07 13:58:15 im just silly and i keep hoping for some jolla thing Jul 07 13:58:22 so far i can manage fine with n900 and n9 Jul 07 13:59:56 insider secret tip: reflash completely, incl your user data. Will work wonders for speed Jul 07 14:00:04 How far is jolla? Last I checked they only had some personalization thing going on with interchangeable covers. totally irrelevant Jul 07 14:00:14 well, that apparently is the start Jul 07 14:00:36 it seems its up to jolla and 3rd parties to make me a HW keyboard other halgf Jul 07 14:00:37 half* Jul 07 14:00:49 and proper landscape support Jul 07 14:01:00 and for mail, you shouldn't be surprised when poor little N900 gets kinbda exhausted when you try to manage an imap account with zillions of mails on it Jul 07 14:01:11 but after two maemo devices that got zero support apart from replacing broken devices, im a bit weary Jul 07 14:01:22 not really wanting to get a 3rd device that ends up being unsupported Jul 07 14:01:37 unsupported by the company that produced it, of course Jul 07 14:01:47 community is special :) Jul 07 14:02:01 wtf means "unsupported"? Jul 07 14:02:52 DocScrutinizer05: any ensible mobile client caches and retrieves only a reasonable amount of mails. with indexing, pretty much any size database can be managed by arbitrarily weak devices. modest is simply quite shit Jul 07 14:03:17 when the bricklayers leave your newly built house after it finally got finished, do you consider your house "unsupported"? Jul 07 14:03:46 Shapeshifter: reality proves you false Jul 07 14:04:16 not even my desktop mailer can handle really huge amounts of mail Jul 07 14:05:05 * Drathir <3 strawberries... mmmmm.... Jul 07 14:08:14 hey guys Jul 07 14:08:45 Lava_Croft: BB dont forget about user who want hw kb... Jul 07 14:09:27 and on the initial topic of N900/fremantle getting slow: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db growing to insane size is a notorious problem for device speed Jul 07 14:10:53 if that db is size>1MB you for sure have a problem Jul 07 14:11:00 DocScrutinizer05: can handle but performance of fast using it will be poor database search take a time... Jul 07 14:11:55 hey Venemo_N9 Jul 07 14:12:11 what is the way to deal with an N900 with a broken USB port? my brother successfully broke my old N900 :( Jul 07 14:12:35 ~usbfix Jul 07 14:12:36 hmm... usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Jul 07 14:14:35 Venemo_N9, you're the dev of IRC chatter? Jul 07 14:14:58 win7mac, indeed I am :) Jul 07 14:15:40 (How much for a BB10 port?) Jul 07 14:16:40 I wanted to do it Jul 07 14:16:45 I don't have a BB10 device, that's the thing Jul 07 14:17:05 and now BB said they won't update the playbook either Jul 07 14:18:51 GeneralAntilles, that being said, I could do it given some free time :) Jul 07 14:19:12 Venemo_N9, I use IRC chatter and have a bouncer for 3 channels. On startup/playback the app hangs and asks to be closed. Usually, when I hit no it works, but not always... Jul 07 14:19:38 GeneralAntilles: BB isnt cheap but warrianty is if nothing changed great... also when you buy you sell with good price add little money and hew new one higher model... Jul 07 14:20:01 win7mac, I'd appreciate if you could give me details in email Jul 07 14:20:06 hew = have* Jul 07 14:20:30 Have you set a timeout for app response - if so please allow more time to load playback Jul 07 14:21:00 win7mac, I didn't Jul 07 14:21:43 win7mac, but as I said, if you give me some details in email, I'd gladly look into it Jul 07 14:21:51 An error msg appears: "the app is not responding, would you like to close it?" Jul 07 14:22:03 basically, that's it Jul 07 14:22:10 that's coming from the operating system Jul 07 14:22:32 the question is, what are you doing with the app when that message appears? Jul 07 14:22:35 win7mac: that show without touching a screen? Jul 07 14:23:10 Drathir, yes, that show without touching a screen Jul 07 14:24:03 Venemo_N9, I simply open IRC chatter and assumingly during loading of playback it hangs Jul 07 14:24:27 ... and the error msg appears Jul 07 14:24:29 what is 'playback'? Jul 07 14:24:41 oh that worse, because i show that most of the apps with high using of ram can do this pressing multiple times on screen in app or pressing fast fews times on close button... Jul 07 14:25:44 Venemo_N9, a bouncer to save the chat while you're offline. It loads to client when opening that Jul 07 14:25:58 if that make it without any accion looks like high resource usage system reaction on... Jul 07 14:26:45 win7mac: maybe huge amount of data trying to load to ram? Jul 07 14:26:48 win7mac, hm, I understand Jul 07 14:27:08 win7mac, which version are you using? Jul 07 14:27:25 Venemo_N9: ZNC playback Jul 07 14:27:53 DocScrutinizer05, yeah I get it Jul 07 14:28:01 Venemo_N9: basically just usual IRC traffic, though high load Jul 07 14:28:25 Venemo_N9, I'm using 0.3.2 Jul 07 14:28:26 im not sure maybe im wrong but maybe good idea will be to store bufer on disk and load only part of them ? Jul 07 14:28:53 Drathir: that's not how it works Jul 07 14:29:08 I probably know what the problem is, then Jul 07 14:29:44 ...meaning you can fix it? Jul 07 14:29:54 your event loop doesn't service whatever OS watchdog, as long as inbound IP packages pile up Jul 07 14:30:41