**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 21 02:59:58 2013 Jul 21 05:55:32 DocScrutinizer05: i have ext4, yeah Jul 21 05:55:49 first, repartition and align to 4mb Jul 21 05:56:02 then add the raid striping options to ext4 Jul 21 05:56:06 then enjoy ext4 Jul 21 07:37:02 hi all Jul 21 07:37:35 I understand that mail for exchange can sync only 1 account, Emminnig can sync calander Jul 21 07:37:45 is there way to sync my contact ? Jul 21 09:07:58 good (UGT) morning Jul 21 09:57:13 g'morning Jul 21 10:09:49 wtf tempratures Jul 21 10:27:03 wtf Jul 21 10:27:13 why the hell does user not have write access to MyDocs Jul 21 10:27:18 and the SD? Jul 21 10:33:28 you have got to be kidding me Jul 21 10:33:40 i was wondering why i can't save crap from the device to the vfat Jul 21 10:33:51 and i find out that for whatever reason user doesn't hve write permissions after updating to thumb Jul 21 10:34:28 Macer: check perms, check genfstab.awk Jul 21 10:40:55 i know the permissions are wrong Jul 21 10:41:01 it is mounting with root:root as its owner Jul 21 10:41:08 i just changed the fstab manually for MyDocs Jul 21 10:41:11 and rebooted.. Jul 21 10:41:15 but seriously.. wtf? Jul 21 10:41:45 where is genfstab.awk? /etc? Jul 21 10:43:33 this is crazy Jul 21 10:43:49 especially considering MyDocs is vfat Jul 21 10:43:50 lol Jul 21 10:43:59 i don't see a genfstab.awk Jul 21 10:44:13 and you can't change perms on a vfat fs Jul 21 10:45:59 there is no genfstab.awk on my friggin n900 Jul 21 10:47:41 wow. this is amazing. i'm sick of bothering with using old devices. time to just suck it up ebay these and get a GS4 Jul 21 10:47:56 an update shouldn't ruin your ability to write to your SD and MyDocs Jul 21 10:51:53 even attempting to remount with mount with the uid flags set doesn't change it Jul 21 10:53:36 fk this. i'll just swap the sim out move my stuff off of it and ebay it Jul 21 10:53:57 and make someone else happy with a valued n900! \o/ Jul 21 10:54:08 if happy is the word you want to use Jul 21 10:54:38 i like the n900 but when you have shit like this happen where you are trying to figure out why you can't save an img from an mms Jul 21 10:54:41 it's time to go Jul 21 10:54:54 n900 doesnt even support mms out of the box Jul 21 10:55:03 that should tell you a lot right there Jul 21 10:55:06 but even so Jul 21 10:55:11 mms is deprecated Jul 21 10:55:12 it isn't the mms that is the problem Jul 21 10:55:32 lol. if you say so Jul 21 10:55:47 there are still millions and millions of people who use mms to send pics Jul 21 10:55:57 but like i said Jul 21 10:56:01 that isn't the issue right now Jul 21 10:56:07 right now i updated and i can't write to the vfat partitions Jul 21 10:56:21 i run thumb, didnt have such a problem Jul 21 10:56:33 nor can i find an easy fix to do so.. so now i have to dive into it and try to figure out what went wrong Jul 21 10:56:44 and why i can't do something as simple as write to MyDocs and the SD? Jul 21 10:57:06 i hate to say it but these are the sorts of things that should just work. it is no wonder nokia killed maemo off :) Jul 21 10:57:09 same reason why you cannot do other 'simple' taks on other mobiles Jul 21 10:57:14 tasks* Jul 21 10:57:18 er Jul 21 10:57:35 like..... use PAN, MMS, and write to an SD? :) Jul 21 10:57:47 blame nokia for cssu thumb update? Jul 21 10:57:57 why dont you blame MS too, since thats fashionable Jul 21 10:58:00 * Lava_Croft huckles Jul 21 10:58:04 nope. but i can understand why they dropped it Jul 21 10:58:17 you cant Jul 21 10:58:19 you are just enraged Jul 21 10:58:39 Macer: please stop ranting! Jul 21 10:59:00 yeah, ranting is the sole right of DocScrutinizer05 Jul 21 10:59:05 * Lava_Croft chuckles some more Jul 21 10:59:52 yes, since *I* know how to rant, while Macer just makes a fool of himself, by bitvhing about MyDocs not mounted rw Jul 21 11:00:24 opinions probably differ on the first part of your sentence Jul 21 11:00:31 but the last part is correct Jul 21 11:00:48 if that's a bug then report a bug, don't act like a defiant child that assumes everything done just to annoy him Jul 21 11:01:33 and there i thought freemangordon lived off of the misery experienced by people like Macer Jul 21 11:01:37 boy was i wrong! Jul 21 11:01:41 lol Jul 21 11:02:29 and particularly staements like "I'm not going to do $X to get rid of this maemo device, and get a $X instead" is not interesting anybody in this channel Jul 21 11:02:53 well... if anybody wants to buy this thing let me know. i'm going to ebay it in a bit. i'll give it up for $150 Jul 21 11:03:00 s/not/now/ Jul 21 11:03:00 DocScrutinizer05 meant: and particularly staements like "I'm now going to do $X to get rid of this maemo device, and get a $X instead" is not interesting anybody in this channel Jul 21 11:04:11 I suppose you try ebay right away, since all your bitching wasn't a good PR for selling your device at that pricetag in here Jul 21 11:04:21 k Jul 21 11:04:26 just figured i'd ask Jul 21 11:04:35 150? nah Jul 21 11:06:29 I'm also no fan of latest CSSU-T fstab hack. It's basically worth nothing and high risk, just implemented to avoid the problems it's actually introducing. But honestly, that's a CSSU-T issue, not a N900 or maemo issue Jul 21 11:09:00 i would have to agree with you there Jul 21 11:09:22 i still have my e7 tho. so there is that at least Jul 21 11:09:47 but hey, all my fighting for a conservative maintenance of CSSU finally succumbed to the fanboys of bleeding edge and "we want monthly updates, no matter what for" Jul 21 11:10:01 lol Jul 21 11:10:18 yeah. i just figured it would provide a benefit Jul 21 11:10:38 seems not but to each their own. im sure devs still love n900s Jul 21 11:11:06 nowadays i just want something that has a qwerty and works lol Jul 21 11:12:07 s4 has the attachable bt qwerty so that should do the trick Jul 21 11:12:43 and a msd slot. time to give up on the could've beens. Jul 21 11:13:43 ah well. it has been fun. good luck with everything. Jul 21 11:14:17 and it has android Jul 21 11:14:19 no gnu userland Jul 21 11:14:21 samsung hw Jul 21 11:14:24 glass screen Jul 21 11:14:32 have fun with it! Jul 21 11:15:34 meh. i will put a debian chroot on it. the touchscreen is better with multi finger support... can install cm on it to avoid ad-droid based stuff. and it can multitask just fine Jul 21 11:16:25 and i am bold enough to say the samsung hw is probably a bit stronger than what the n900 is working with. ;) Jul 21 11:16:41 CM is still android Jul 21 11:16:47 stronger as in...? Jul 21 11:16:50 it still has no GNU userland Jul 21 11:16:58 and you need a quadcore CPU to run android without lag Jul 21 11:17:02 sure CPU has higher clock Jul 21 11:17:06 well. not like there are many alternatives Jul 21 11:17:16 samsung captiva glide Jul 21 11:17:23 at least that has a HW keyboard Jul 21 11:17:24 maybe ubuntu devices will show promise Jul 21 11:17:37 oh? Jul 21 11:18:04 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.phonespot.nl/images/productimages/big/Samsung%20Captivate%20Glide%20i927%20002.jpg Jul 21 11:18:07 i927 Jul 21 11:18:08 thanks Jul 21 11:18:15 friend of mine got it to replace his n900 Jul 21 11:18:20 apart from android, he is rather happy with it Jul 21 11:18:24 oh, and it lacks a CTRL key:) Jul 21 11:18:36 but there is a CM release for it, so Jul 21 11:18:40 wow, that looks nice Jul 21 11:18:44 its not maemo, but its not that bad Jul 21 11:18:58 wow, uhh, that's a pretty crappy android phone. Jul 21 11:19:03 i think only in the US/Asia tho Jul 21 11:19:07 not EU Jul 21 11:19:46 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Samsung_Captivate_Glide_-_SGH-I927_-_013.JPG/1280px-Samsung_Captivate_Glide_-_SGH-I927_-_013.JPG Jul 21 11:19:50 nicer pic Jul 21 11:20:01 meh, get a phone with a large enough keyboard, and you won't be complaining about hwkb unless you use terminal /a lot/ to edit files in vi. Jul 21 11:20:20 hw keyb > * Jul 21 11:20:25 no onscreen keyboard can replace it Jul 21 11:20:36 eeeeek! that looks like one crappy kbd, almost as crappy as N950 or eten M800 Jul 21 11:21:04 Lava_Croft: N9's touch keyboard is fine by me. Jul 21 11:21:11 its no replacement Jul 21 11:21:12 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00D2ZUN1Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1374405622&sr=8-3&pi=SL75 Jul 21 11:21:22 was thinking more of that Jul 21 11:22:13 that will need another case to protect the screen Jul 21 11:22:22 since its samsung, the shell of the phone is made of rubber-like substance Jul 21 11:22:30 making the phone bendable as shit Jul 21 11:22:42 thats why samsung invests so heavily into flexible screens Jul 21 11:22:49 thats easier than learning how to make good HW Jul 21 11:23:09 like falling off usb ports? ;) Jul 21 11:23:44 never happened to me or anyone i know with n900 Jul 21 11:23:46 http://https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dyndns.sven_ola.debian_kit&hl=en Jul 21 11:23:49 i only know it from TMO Jul 21 11:24:03 and the AWESOME keys it got! "www." ".com" `speech input´ "smiley" "OK" Jul 21 11:24:18 haha Jul 21 11:24:19 welcome to android Jul 21 11:24:25 can I please get ".de" instead of ".com" ? Jul 21 11:24:30 well... that was the 1st one i saw Jul 21 11:24:31 .com key is normal in android, with onscreen keyb too Jul 21 11:24:35 there are others Jul 21 11:24:52 but they have them to get a qwerty onto an s4 Jul 21 11:25:23 "www." and for sure are my alltime favorites Jul 21 11:25:47 im sure they are easily remapped Jul 21 11:25:59 to tab and pipe Jul 21 11:26:04 heh Jul 21 11:26:23 I hope the printing on key is also scrap-off otherwise too embarrassing Jul 21 11:26:36 to whom? Jul 21 11:26:43 to the bearer Jul 21 11:26:48 ;-) Jul 21 11:27:04 i doubt anybody would notice or care. maybe a cs major Jul 21 11:27:27 I'd be ashamed to carry a device with a smiley hw key Jul 21 11:27:29 and even then theyd probably just like it because it is a qwerty on an s4 Jul 21 11:28:05 cant really find too many high end phones with qwerty Jul 21 11:28:08 if any at all Jul 21 11:28:14 evem on plane-3 Jul 21 11:28:22 probably because you have to sell them internationally Jul 21 11:28:41 wacky germans with z and y swapped Jul 21 11:28:48 heh Jul 21 11:29:10 The whole trend is pretty much what Apple had started, phones/devices lacking a proper hardware keyboard. Jul 21 11:29:29 psycho_oreos: it made sense tho Jul 21 11:29:42 Every other damn manufacturer just followed suit. Jul 21 11:29:47 why make 50 different keyboards? Jul 21 11:29:54 when a vkb is software Jul 21 11:30:16 it probably saved billions so far heh Jul 21 11:30:37 Macer, yeah and why not give end users no freedom to even do simple commands like copy and paste. Afterall, programmers are free to write their own vkb instead. Jul 21 11:31:03 psycho_oreos: that's just because idiotic industry rather copies than trusting in own R&D and design department Jul 21 11:31:22 well i am sure it is all bottom line Jul 21 11:31:33 like using cheap solder points on usb ports heh Jul 21 11:31:53 "iPhone does it this way. iPhone is market leader. So we do it same way, it must be right thing to do" Jul 21 11:32:02 iphone is not market leader anywhere except the US Jul 21 11:32:05 DocScrutinizer05, for various reasons on various scales, its inevitable that hardware keyboard phones/devices faces their immediate death after PDAs. Jul 21 11:32:21 Netherlands is about 70 to 80% android Jul 21 11:32:50 Lava_Croft: but most high end ad-droid phones dont have a kb Jul 21 11:33:14 There was a time when in 2009 some of the top end android devices still featured hardware keyboard. These days hardware keyboard phones/devices are commonly found on dumb/cheap phones. Jul 21 11:33:20 that's since android mimics iPhone Jul 21 11:33:31 but i agree on their reasoning. im sure it also helps with 3rd party international sales Jul 21 11:33:32 thats because people dont WANT hw keyboards anymore Jul 21 11:33:36 not because imitating iphone Jul 21 11:33:39 iPhone been first and always been "leader" Jul 21 11:33:47 since for the most part they can be universal Jul 21 11:34:02 no matter about recent market share Jul 21 11:34:25 Lava_Croft: i think they can just live without them Jul 21 11:34:33 if they had them they would use them Jul 21 11:34:47 they dont want it Jul 21 11:34:53 HW keyboard equals bigger phone Jul 21 11:34:55 but copycats like google simply ignore that even Apple might do decisions based on other rationale than mere product usability considerations Jul 21 11:34:56 but a hw kb adds bulk(weight) Jul 21 11:35:47 DocScrutinizer05: cattle eat hay Jul 21 11:36:19 if they starved to death... theyd eat something else Jul 21 11:36:21 There was a time where innovative features like 9xxx series communicator and E7 had ways to hide the hardware keyboard. Now it seems like hardware keyboard is an unecessary junk/bulk. Jul 21 11:36:39 see "bigger phone" for example. everybody thinks the trend is to ever smaller devices, while every usability expert can elaborate why that's a deadend path. And recent devices show that trend goes to 5" or even 7" *phones* Jul 21 11:36:56 heh Jul 21 11:37:12 i wouldnt say my e7 hides it well Jul 21 11:37:17 where do you get such general statements from like "everybody thinks the trend is towards blabla" Jul 21 11:37:22 i guess it isnt that big Jul 21 11:37:27 im using it now Jul 21 11:38:08 Lava_Croft: that's a simplified statement to summarize trend of whole industry during last 6 years Jul 21 11:38:27 maybe last 8 except last 18 months Jul 21 11:38:35 N900 isn't all that particularly big with hardware keyboard. It was probably because of the design limitations prohibit N900 to be thin, if you looked at N950 which was virtually based off E7 its noticeably thinner. Jul 21 11:38:48 the trend has been towards largest phones for quite some years Jul 21 11:38:57 with even apple copying the androids and getting a bigger screened phone Jul 21 11:39:14 (after stating you would never need a bigger screen, of course) Jul 21 11:39:22 Largest and thinnest phones.. Jul 21 11:40:03 psycho_oreos: yep Jul 21 11:40:52 N900 thickness is basically determined by cam module Jul 21 11:41:34 The wars between trends has always been a key factor, just yesterday I was watching N900 demo/teaser on cutetube and reading comments to see people flaming each other about N900 vs Jul 21 11:42:25 the N900 cam module seems rather poor quality regarding size, in my book Jul 21 11:43:13 In N8, they've improved (probably) that cam module but made it purely symbian. Jul 21 11:43:29 plus it makes for that ugly annoying bump on battery cover Jul 21 11:43:46 I would've shot the ID designers for that Jul 21 11:46:44 but compared to iPhone cam module it's still phantastic, hw wise (my own unsupported notion). Just that apple did a hell of a job on sw side to compensate for the shorcomings of their crap cam Jul 21 11:48:12 which *usually* makes for nice snapshots on iPhone, unless you go to take photos under certain conditions (moved objects) where the limitations show clearly, by generating nasty artifacts Jul 21 11:49:52 but then, Apple is a sw developer that knows his busines sw side and eventually decided to do phone hw, while Nokia been a hw developer always and also generally did a lot of outsourcing for the sw side Jul 21 11:50:19 so the differences in design paradigms are clearly based on compny's history Jul 21 11:52:07 and not even Nokia is rid of limitations the FOSS idea imposes on hw design Jul 21 11:54:01 ask dm8tbr about how boneheaded companies like e.g ST-E can act when it comes to proper licensing of simple stupid .h files for e.g. GFX Jul 21 11:55:56 iirc the MALI400 grafics core can't get used in FOSS just because ST-E refuses to GPL a already disclosed 200lines .h that's "(C) ST-Ericson" Jul 21 11:56:17 Rewrite the header, use different names Jul 21 11:56:23 rearrange them in the header Jul 21 11:56:41 I think if it were that simple, they would have contemplated with seriousness. Jul 21 11:56:54 psycho: no Jul 21 11:57:21 no, since both parties are somewhat boneheaded Jul 21 11:57:31 N900 had lots of cool hardware in general, people just don't realise they could unlock the hardware's inner potential and to look at the obvious shortcomings. Jul 21 11:58:14 well, the fcam guys did Jul 21 11:58:25 and the blessN900 guys as well Jul 21 11:58:55 It was only then had they got these other people with asking about it and wishing their manufacturer would do the same. Jul 21 11:59:03 hmmm Jul 21 11:59:06 mali can't be used by foss? Jul 21 11:59:06 but still they can't compete with what a 500 heads developer team for just the cam drivers can do at Apple Jul 21 11:59:07 this is new to me Jul 21 11:59:16 I mean, there's no finished foss driver Jul 21 11:59:20 There was other things like fmtxd, the wl1251 module, the trio LED notification. Jul 21 11:59:25 Wizzup_: that might have changed meanwhile Jul 21 11:59:27 life with the n900 is generally like this: iphone user looks at n900 and smirks about size, screen, stylus Jul 21 11:59:31 I have it running on my gentoo install Jul 21 11:59:33 but once anything has to be done, n900 has to do it Jul 21 11:59:35 Wizzup_: that info is like 2 years old Jul 21 11:59:39 maybe 3 Jul 21 11:59:40 ok Jul 21 11:59:41 because iphone cant/wont/whatever Jul 21 11:59:49 DocScrutinizer05: libv and others are working on lima Jul 21 11:59:55 I'm hoping it finishes soon Jul 21 11:59:58 at least, comes around Jul 21 12:00:30 Wizzup_: I jusz quoted that instance since I been working inside ST-E at that time, and tried to move sth about the issue with that .h file Jul 21 12:00:40 after dm8tbr told me about it Jul 21 12:01:39 alas Ericsson worked on the LTE modem, not the AP/GFX halve of NovaThor Jul 21 12:01:50 so I couldn't do much Jul 21 12:02:02 hi Jul 21 12:02:24 there's one thing I've become tired of regarding the application "mobilehotspot" Jul 21 12:02:41 every now and then, seemingly completely random, it simply doesn't start Jul 21 12:03:04 the exact error being "ImportError: No module named os" Jul 21 12:03:22 the solution is simply rebooting and hope it doesn't happen again Jul 21 12:03:43 and if that fails, do it again (though that happens rarely) Jul 21 12:03:51 any idea *what* causes this thing? Jul 21 12:03:56 no Jul 21 12:04:01 share syslog Jul 21 12:04:18 sorry? Jul 21 12:04:35 and start mobilehotspot in terminal or with stdout/stderr redirection to a logfile Jul 21 12:04:58 He basically meant share a log where useful information can probably be extracted. Usually from the likes of dmesg/syslog. Jul 21 12:05:11 yep Jul 21 12:05:16 tnx psycho_oreos Jul 21 12:05:32 When X happens instead of Y, its always best to run things in terminal, look in all the possible logs/avenues, etc. Jul 21 12:05:44 mhm Jul 21 12:06:02 You don't go, oh its annoying me *reboot and hope it goes away*. Jul 21 12:06:20 yeah just wasn't sure what he meant with syslog Jul 21 12:06:24 regularly programs spit some diagnostics to stderr or syslog when something inexpected happens Jul 21 12:06:30 ^ Jul 21 12:06:39 psycho_oreos: indeed, but this exact issue *do* get solved by rebooting Jul 21 12:06:47 which I found out accidentally once Jul 21 12:06:56 and this doesn't make any sense to me Jul 21 12:07:01 That's where its useful to debug rather than doing nothing until it got annoying. Jul 21 12:07:24 thus: share syslog Jul 21 12:07:33 ~pkg Jul 21 12:07:34 extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ Jul 21 12:07:36 syslog Jul 21 12:07:37 FIQ|n900, I don't know, that error almost sounds like some issue with python. Though I'm no programmer. Jul 21 12:07:42 sysklog? Jul 21 12:07:56 +d ;) Jul 21 12:08:00 /var/log/syslog Jul 21 12:08:16 only if sysklogd is installed Jul 21 12:08:29 otherwise dmesg, though it's sub-par Jul 21 12:09:14 Speaking of dmesg, I found there was a nice perl script to translate those ktimer messages into meaningful syslog lookalike output. Jul 21 12:09:46 and particularly "run-standalone.sh mobilehotspot 2>~/MyDocs/MH.log 1>&2 Jul 21 12:09:57 " Jul 21 12:10:18 DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to import os manually within a python interpreter Jul 21 12:10:30 and it fails to find it as well Jul 21 12:10:35 so something weird is going on @python Jul 21 12:11:06 psycho_oreos: cooool Jul 21 12:11:10 When it did work, where was the "import os" usually sourced from? Jul 21 12:11:22 DocScrutinizer05, I was going to paste the link, hang on.. I'm going to find it again. Jul 21 12:12:04 DocScrutinizer05, http://linuxaria.com/article/how-to-make-dmesg-timestamp-human-readable?lang=en <-- only the perl script works on N900, python variant failed. Jul 21 12:12:22 mhm Jul 21 12:12:40 anyway, I'd probably rather need it on my PC. Thanks a lot Jul 21 12:13:03 Hehe, oh well, wherever you may find it handy :D Jul 21 12:13:09 (on N900 I got syslog since ~ beginning of times ;-d ) Jul 21 12:13:10 no worries. Jul 21 12:13:16 [14:11:09] When it did work, where was the "import os" usually sourced from? Jul 21 12:13:52 I don't know this one atm, so I guess I'll have to reboot into a working MH to find that out? unless you have another solution Jul 21 12:13:59 * psycho_oreos has had issues with sysklogd failing to start after what was supposedly an issue trying to optify syslog file and wanting to compress it (to save space). Jul 21 12:14:30 DocScrutinizer05: also honestly I fail to understand exactly how dmesg is helpful in this case Jul 21 12:14:30 lol Jul 21 12:14:31 FIQ|n900, I'm no programmer, if it did worked at the time during reboots yeah its probably a way I suppose. Jul 21 12:14:53 ohh hooray, that pastebinit script requires os too lol Jul 21 12:14:55 err I meant after a reboot. Jul 21 12:14:56 FIQ|n900: since MH needs kernel support, it *may* be relevant Jul 21 12:15:32 Hmm I think I have pastebinit also installed.. lemme try something as well from my end. Jul 21 12:15:43 DocScrutinizer05: but when I earlier (before knowing it required KP) tried to use mobilehotspot in vanilla kernel, the application itself started fine Jul 21 12:15:56 it just failed to create a wlan interface, i.e. not same issue as now Jul 21 12:16:26 FIQ|n900: I'm not going to discuss the possible error patterns in any app on this level. It's futile Jul 21 12:16:57 a swift look at syslog is way more ffective, if only to rule out sth odd is going on there Jul 21 12:18:19 to diagnose *any* arbitrary problem with a process, you generally need: stdout.log, stderr.log, syslog Jul 21 12:18:44 and strace if the aforementioned don't help Jul 21 12:19:13 there's hardly any bug in a program that can't get tracked down following this pattern Jul 21 12:19:49 particularly when it's a bug that causes abort or failure to startup Jul 21 12:19:49 as I didn't had syslog installed - http://sprunge.us/MPFe dmesg output Jul 21 12:19:55 Some programs contains hidden extra parameters that can be shown via strings if the program in question is a binary. Jul 21 12:20:35 mobilehotspot is a python script though Jul 21 12:21:30 yeah, dmesg is sub-par, I said it. [ 80.442291] wl1251: down is the only slightly interesting thing in dmesg Jul 21 12:21:35 DocScrutinizer05: in addition I installed sysklogd for future issues for easier debugging Jul 21 12:21:56 http://sprunge.us/KcVH mobilehotspot's stderr Jul 21 12:22:21 make sure to every now and then clean out your /var/log/* from obsolete old logs or too large current logs Jul 21 12:22:34 I do that every 3 months or so Jul 21 12:22:52 http://sprunge.us/PbBW and the actual mobilehotspot python script (it's small) in case it gives any clues Jul 21 12:22:59 http://sprunge.us/jjgN <-- my "dpkg -l| grep python| pastebinit -b http://sprunge.us" output (if that maybe of certain use), goes to show my python version works with pastebinit. Jul 21 12:23:15 FIQ|n900: stderr already gives a good clue, no? Jul 21 12:23:27 DocScrutinizer05: yes it does Jul 21 12:23:37 but in case mobilehotspot is doing something funny Jul 21 12:23:43 doesn't look like it though Jul 21 12:25:27 Also googling for the exact error phrase may also seem to help as well. Jul 21 12:26:42 psycho_oreos: yes I did this before coming here Jul 21 12:26:59 but it didn't turn up anything interesting/relevant Jul 21 12:28:37 err guys, I'm no python crack at all, but I seem to recall a python shebang alsways looks like "#!/bin/env pythonBLAH" Jul 21 12:29:20 /usr/bin/env yeah Jul 21 12:29:31 just installed fcam, rebooted, and I have no /dev/video0 anymore Jul 21 12:29:40 interesting ;-) Jul 21 12:29:41 not "#!/usr/bin/run-standalone.sh python2.5" Jul 21 12:29:55 isn't env used to get the correct path to the python binary? Jul 21 12:30:26 yep, afaik sth like that Jul 21 12:30:40 disclaimer, see above Jul 21 12:30:47 nfc here Jul 21 12:31:52 FIQ|n900, the first link from google was from stackoverflow which one suggested about using $PYTHONPATH. Now my "find / -name "os.pyc"" outputs these: /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc | /usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc |　/home/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc Jul 21 12:32:50 psycho_oreos: what did you google on? I basically googled the error I pasted above and got no such link Jul 21 12:33:03 but yes I can try looking for os.pyc Jul 21 12:33:26 FIQ|n900, "ImportError: No module named os" and the link:　http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12320143/python-importerror-no-module-named-os Jul 21 12:34:14 Wizzup_, somewhere something got messed up horribly, most likely a bad kernel module. Jul 21 12:34:26 psycho_oreos: probably the /usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc is a symlink to optified /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc which is a bindmount to /home/opt/ Jul 21 12:35:15 DocScrutinizer05, yup :) the real python libs would never sit in rootfs anyway considering how limited the space of rootfs is. Jul 21 12:35:29 ""Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to [:]"" Jul 21 12:36:07 seems to me like $PYTHONHOME is unset or incorrect Jul 21 12:36:22 nfc why Jul 21 12:36:36 or why it's needed anyway Jul 21 12:37:07 maybe $PATH or $(pwd) is incorrect Jul 21 12:37:18 I don't have $PYTHONHOME　set as well (no outputs from my N900), though one guy from that link said to put this in their .bashrc: PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6 . Obviously that's the wrong Python version but it seems like its one hackish attempts to rectify the issue. Jul 21 12:37:41 psycho_oreos: it would appear so, but I have no clue why Jul 21 12:37:53 just installed ``FCamera'' from extras-testing, and I am on power kernel 50 Jul 21 12:38:14 yeah, it's probably needed when sth is non-standard thus non-default on your pathnames and mounts and whatnot Jul 21 12:38:41 MIGHT again be a fstab issue ;-P Jul 21 12:38:46 Wizzup_, usually a mismatched kernel with kernel modules loaded can cause issues. Other times it would output invalid module format -1 or something. syslog/dmesg output maybe useful here. I'm using kp52 with fcam modules (latest) and no issues from my end though. Jul 21 12:38:48 check for `mount` Jul 21 12:39:00 if the bindmounts for python are there Jul 21 12:39:08 Yeah that too. Jul 21 12:40:07 psycho_oreos: manual modprobe seems to fail with invalid module format Jul 21 12:40:08 for the randomness of the issue, I might figure the new fstab/fsck hack introduced to CSSU-T may fail to bindmount the python mounts when and only when any of the fs needs fsck Jul 21 12:40:13 that is odd Jul 21 12:41:07 hmm interesting, I have os.py and os.pyo but not os.pyc in that directory.. and I tried to set PYTHONPATH manually (it was not set before - just tried) and it successfully imported that module, however now it errors on another module... will try to see where it is in case I need something else in that path as well Jul 21 12:41:08 http://sprunge.us/IdCF <-- my mount output, if you'll excuse my excessive use of ext3 here *ahem* :) Jul 21 12:41:10 Wizzup_: zhere's a --ignore-vermagic OWTTE option to modprobe Jul 21 12:41:19 Wizzup_, That's the reason why :) Jul 21 12:41:54 s/- just tried/- as seen on echo $PYTHONPATH/ Jul 21 12:41:54 FIQ|n900 meant: hmm interesting, I have os.py and os.pyo but not os.pyc in that directory.. and I tried to set PYTHONPATH manually (it was not set before - as seen on echo $PYTHONPATH) and it successfully imported that module, however now it errors on another module... w... Jul 21 12:42:02 thx,will be back soon Jul 21 12:43:20 FIQ|n900, I'd also start checking on mount as DocScrutinizer05 pointed out. Jul 21 12:43:30 yes which I just did Jul 21 12:43:38 in addition, the mounts @python seems to have no issues, see http://sprunge.us/IYWL Jul 21 12:45:12 strange Jul 21 12:45:36 you start to qualify for a strace session ;-) Jul 21 12:45:41 * psycho_oreos ponders if the issue might also be to do with older versions of python libraries (hence lacking the necessary facility within their respective postinst) to work properly. Jul 21 12:46:03 (non-localized http://sprunge.us/eeRh ) Jul 21 12:46:39 FIQ|n900: not needed ;-D Jul 21 12:46:40 DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to reinstall all python packages in case something was messed up Jul 21 12:46:56 and interestingly it did not go all well Jul 21 12:47:00 Ahh the only difference is what was written on top, not needed :) I know what the content says :D. Jul 21 12:47:12 yep Jul 21 12:47:14 [14:46:39] DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to reinstall all python packages in case something was messed up - like that optfs restoration yesterday Jul 21 12:47:16 FIQ|n900, that's your answer. Jul 21 12:47:41 and interestingly it did not go all well <--- That could be the source of the issues. Jul 21 12:47:50 yes Jul 21 12:47:55 will paste apt results sec Jul 21 12:50:13 I somewhat would also like to think the issues with these are happening is also because you nuked /opt. It sort of makes programs walk on "broken tiles". Jul 21 12:50:22 * DocScrutinizer05 suddenly feels sick, considering that some python programs might now (after fstab hack) run *before* possibly deferred bindmount of *python 'volumes' Jul 21 12:51:44 * psycho_oreos thinks in either case FIQ|n900 is on the way to creating a zombified version of maemo. :) Jul 21 12:52:05