**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 31 02:59:58 2013 Jul 31 04:23:18 hm... I can't enter my lock code (despite cracking it) on a device that hasn't been turned on in a few months - ideas? Jul 31 04:23:28 (I can't reflash since the USB port is dead) Jul 31 04:24:03 I'm in BackupMenu currently Jul 31 04:30:59 hmm.. anyone? Jul 31 04:34:01 If you have also tried the default lock code which also fails (there should be two types) then you are probably better off at getting that USB port fixed. Jul 31 04:36:02 12345? doesn't work Jul 31 04:37:03 It's like /dev/mtd1 is corrupt.. if I look at the whole thing I see my lock code (hashed) where I can crack it, and it's what it's supposed to be Jul 31 04:37:11 but if I use "getlockcode" it returns root:: Jul 31 04:37:29 Try 00000 Jul 31 04:38:39 that doesn't work either Jul 31 04:39:03 I might as well chroot it or something Jul 31 04:39:11 stupid charge.sh spams a lot though Jul 31 04:56:08 Ideally it would be wise to get that USB port fixed. Jul 31 05:39:25 FIQ: obligatory protip: don't use the stock fsck, it's shit Jul 31 05:39:48 either install an updated version, or work on a recent linux install on a computer Jul 31 05:40:05 and to avoid any flash wonkiness, dd the whole partition, fsck it, copy the data, then rebuild the partition on the n900 and copy the data back Jul 31 05:47:01 what does this mean to an ordinary user like me? Jul 31 06:02:41 SAiF: keep calm and reflash Jul 31 06:02:56 also, wtf Jul 31 06:03:02 if you're an ordinary user, why are you using a n900 Jul 31 06:03:03 ? Jul 31 06:06:47 hahaha!!! Jul 31 06:07:31 I am just ordinary user, but I wish to become like you, and thats why I am listening to this channel Jul 31 06:10:05 and I am always calm, english as a second language, I just dont know emotions in my sentences, I just only know the meanings, Jul 31 06:10:22 sorry, if I sounded rude. Jul 31 06:11:03 kerio: :) Jul 31 06:44:26 An ordinary user still using N900? that's rare, the majority would have probably migrated to some other software leaving mainly the rest behind. Jul 31 06:48:45 ? migrated to other software? Jul 31 06:49:20 *ahem* as in using other . Jul 31 06:49:57 I will, when someone releases a phone that's even half of n900 Jul 31 06:50:15 preferably the hw keyboard half Jul 31 06:50:46 I own an android tablet and they're such toys in comparison Jul 31 06:51:23 I think motorola does produce some android phones with qwerty keyboard. Albeit usually old and rare. Jul 31 06:52:07 just the hw keyboard is not really enough, it's the bare minimum Jul 31 06:52:42 and sadly I don't even trust android enough to do anything serious with it, like using ssh :p Jul 31 06:54:07 A few of us I guess are thinking of the same thing as well.. to migrate would be something at least half of what maemo was. Inevitably trend won't head that way in the foreseeable future. Jul 31 06:54:25 so obvious solution is to use n900 until it breaks Jul 31 06:54:35 * joga tries to be very gentle with it ;p Jul 31 06:54:48 and/or keep more copies of N900 :) Jul 31 06:55:10 yeah, wish I had had spare money when some used ones were still available for cheap, would have bought like 5 or something Jul 31 06:57:24 You might still be able to obtain more, the question lies invariably on availability and/or the quality. These days I hear more and more stories of owners with broken N900 USB ports. Jul 31 06:57:44 yeah, I've been fortunate (or careful enough) to be spared of that fate Jul 31 06:59:29 Same here except I don't think that is the only place to be aware of. Just recently I heard an owner of (what is now very much a) dead N800, I guess it will be matter of time too for N900's turn. Jul 31 07:00:04 s/much a)/much) a/ Jul 31 07:00:06 psycho_oreos meant: Same here except I don't think that is the only place to be aware of. Just recently I heard an owner of (what is now very much) a dead N800, I guess it will be matter of time too for N900's turn. Jul 31 07:00:09 heh my n800 is still fine Jul 31 07:01:19 * psycho_oreos shrugs I've only managed to get into the scene was matter of pure coincidential values with N900. Never knew about the rest of the maemo family. Jul 31 07:03:01 Rather before getting introduced to N900 was when I never heard of maemo. Jul 31 07:13:30 Has anybody here seen this project? http://tox.im/ Jul 31 08:21:19 brolin_empey: sadly mine isnt on warranty, need to find repair place, but if i good saw in poland is person knowing about that, maybe get me some tips... Jul 31 10:00:36 no powersaving on wifi is ridiculous Jul 31 10:01:35 drains my battery dry Jul 31 10:10:44 psycho_oreos: add to it owners with broken GSM modem Jul 31 10:13:30 oh the joy of flashing android crap Jul 31 10:14:18 edheldil, not as many as those with broken USB ports but granted yes. There are also owners with broken bits and pieces :) I heard maybe a few with minijack playing up along with one that has a dead eMMC. Also a fair few would be affected with that faulty built-in cell battery. Jul 31 10:14:43 nobody has a working bupba Jul 31 10:14:44 t Jul 31 10:15:09 ~bupbat Jul 31 10:15:09 methinks bupbat is use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153, or https://hbe-shop.de/KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN Jul 31 10:15:27 n900's don't seem to have a date of manufacture anywhere Jul 31 10:15:51 jpinx, they sort of do on the fancy box itself iinm. Jul 31 10:16:09 where? Jul 31 10:16:29 * jpinx has the battery out Jul 31 10:17:03 Where the barcode is, there is a number there somewhere which sort of narrows it down to month and year of manufacture iinm. Jul 31 10:23:14 jpinx, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=546651&postcount=810 Jul 31 10:25:08 Hello. How do I find which package a given file/program is in? e.g. if I want to run Program1, do I install PackageOfProgramsA, or PackageOfProgramsB, etc.? (I already know how to use "apt-file list pkgname" if I already know the package name, but I'm trying to find the package name, which is likely not yet installed) Jul 31 10:26:04 dpkg -S pathname Jul 31 10:26:10 oh Jul 31 10:26:17 I was about to say :) Jul 31 10:26:18 not installed? Jul 31 10:26:29 it's stored inside debs Jul 31 10:26:36 tough luck Jul 31 10:27:58 If you know the exact name of the program and where its stored (ideally the full path) you can probably google it up and then try narrowing it down to maemo specific. If lucky you might get it. Jul 31 10:29:27 kerio: Ok. Thx anyway. Yeah, I'm basically trying to figure out what to install. It's unlikely that I've already installed it, in such circumstances. Jul 31 10:30:04 psycho_oreos: Thx anyway. I'm going to try looking it up in the Ubuntu search --usually they keep the same package arrangements as the rest of Debian. Jul 31 10:31:15 kwtm: what do you want to install? Jul 31 10:34:26 psycho_oreos: here's my label, but no date that I can figure out :( http://picpaste.com/20130731_009-9SWZoXzv.jpg Jul 31 10:35:17 kerio: Looking for an image viewer for KDE that doesn't crap out when meta information is corrupted (but the image data itself is fine) Jul 31 10:35:38 jpinx, not your N900 lol. The retail packaging box (if you still have it). Jul 31 10:35:49 Oh, look, apparently in addition to "apt-file list", there's "apt-file search" that can find what package a file is in, without the package needing to be installed. Jul 31 10:36:22 truly, apt is the perfect app manager Jul 31 10:36:35 kwtm: or dpkg -l | grep Jul 31 10:36:36 praise be to debian Jul 31 10:36:53 jpinx: No, that doesn't work: the package has to be installed first. Jul 31 10:36:56 jpinx, that's only for installed packages, and its a crude way :) Jul 31 10:37:33 maybe google debian for clues Jul 31 10:37:45 jpinx: Also, it's dpkg -L, not dpkg -l (the latter lists package names, not filenames) Jul 31 10:38:30 You can make it into a for loop but its one hell of a ugly hack with excess pipes and other tools like awk/sed required. Jul 31 10:38:31 Hmm, looks like I found the answer. I had heard of "apt-file list" and "apt-cache search" but had not realized there was a "apt-file search" before today. Jul 31 10:38:45 Thanks, people! :) Jul 31 10:39:00 Yeah I learnt dpkg -S just the other day :). Jul 31 10:39:01 * jpinx missed the bit where the pkg isn't actually installed yet Jul 31 10:40:07 kwtm: explore packages.debian.org (or is it .net) Jul 31 10:40:50 jpinx, you still have that retail packaging box for your N900? Jul 31 10:42:33 psycho_oreos: nope :( long gone - but still have the paper manual :) Jul 31 10:42:46 it's about 5 years old Jul 31 10:43:41 Yeah the label on the retail packaging would have indicate the week and year of manufacture. By no means that is exact but its probably better than nothing. Jul 31 10:45:47 I know it's a very early one, but it's soldiering on well Jul 31 10:45:47 Looking at that photo and trying to decrypt various printing on it. I think the one with three forward slashes is probably the IMEI number, thought it might be useful for trying to pinpoint the manufacture dates. Apart from that it seems like the warranty or protection something is voided. There's Chinese words on that sticker near the JTAG area with a hole in it. Jul 31 10:46:29 Not as early as the pre-release ones, they were made in Finland and probably not many are still working well. Jul 31 10:46:41 yea - I've had it apart a couple of times after a local (thailand) shop tried to fix a screen problem Jul 31 10:46:58 Ahh. Jul 31 10:47:00 they stuck chinese stickers everywhere Jul 31 10:47:15 and I ended up fixing the screen myself - Jul 31 10:47:28 this land is now claimed by China :) Jul 31 10:47:51 yea - something like that Jul 31 10:48:01 I still have my N900 box Jul 31 10:48:16 Rather "this piece of equipment is now owned by China" lol. Jul 31 10:48:16 I travel too much to accumulate a lot of stuff Jul 31 10:48:33 I have an eeepc and 2 n900's Jul 31 10:49:03 I need more n900s Jul 31 10:49:09 been contemplating how to replace them when they die - all are getting old and well used Jul 31 10:49:22 jon_y: you want one of mine ? :) Jul 31 10:49:26 jpinx: sure Jul 31 10:49:29 Yeah I know when travelling its never fun to take too many N900 retail boxes (for each N900 bought overseas). It tends to give customs the wrong impressions. Jul 31 10:49:42 if it boots and usb isn't broke Jul 31 10:50:17 jon_y: it's cool - did you pick up the link to the picpaste? Jul 31 10:50:19 psycho_oreos: tell them it calms you down psychologically :) Jul 31 10:50:31 not yet Jul 31 10:50:34 Apart from excess luggage that is. Nonetheless the N900 packaging was fancy of its day and age. I still have most of my retail packaging boxes however. Jul 31 10:50:51 jon_y, after paying import taxes yes :) Jul 31 10:51:03 how much after tax? :( Jul 31 10:51:22 where are you at anyway? Jul 31 10:51:44 I'm in Thailand atm :) Jul 31 10:51:45 I don't know, at the time N900 was still available to purchase from the shops overseas (despite only a handful of stores that still manage to carry them). Jul 31 10:52:03 in that case, I'm just down south in Malaysia Jul 31 10:52:43 jon_y: pm? Jul 31 10:52:47 sure Jul 31 10:53:11 It was best that I carry the extra N900s in my pockets and hope they won't question about it all. Jul 31 10:55:52 one in pocket and one in handluggage ;) Jul 31 10:58:46 For me (at the time) it was one in outer (visible) jacket pockets and the other on the inner (hidden) jacket pockets. I love how asians design the jackets, they've considered about people pickpocketing and those extra (hidden) pockets can come in handy for various purposes. Jul 31 11:09:44 going through security kinda blows that ;) Jul 31 11:11:22 It does but its best hope that they're in good mood, if you're having constant misfortune you might end up getting thoroughly searched and thorougly taxed for whatever you failed to claim. Jul 31 11:12:02 s/best hope/best to hope/ Jul 31 11:12:02 psycho_oreos meant: It does but its best to hope that they're in good mood, if you're having constant misfortune you might end up getting thoroughly searched and thorougly taxed for whatever you failed to claim. Jul 31 11:39:59 http://webnewsvoice.com/nexus-5-and-nokia-focus-release-with-android-5-0/ Jul 31 11:40:02 * Lava_Croft chuckles Jul 31 11:43:06 Lava_Croft: what unholy union is this? Jul 31 11:43:51 unholy struct, unholly enum hehe Jul 31 11:46:58 :) Jul 31 11:53:22 lol right made in korea not finland :/ Jul 31 11:54:55 if it means I can root it and install maemo, I might just forgive Nokia Jul 31 11:55:22 gnu userland would be pretty nice Jul 31 12:02:38 ... you do realise that new phone isn't going to happen right? Jul 31 12:19:33 Any reason why tracker, when rebuildings its db, seems to now ignore a lot of my music files Jul 31 12:21:21 hmm, maybe it just takes longer to index flac files Jul 31 12:21:30 or not Jul 31 12:21:49 it popped up the notification about adding new files and then didnt add anything new Jul 31 12:25:58 reinstalling ogg-support fixt it Jul 31 12:32:17 nice to see Fennec on Maemo is as slow as i remember Fennec on Android being :P Jul 31 12:34:58 :D Jul 31 12:35:06 current android firefox is kind of ok Jul 31 12:35:09 it just has a horrible UI Jul 31 12:37:33 i haven't used the more recent versions. besides, on my Milestone i doubt it would be very usable anyway, it's just an old phone by now... Jul 31 12:37:44 anyway it's ok since i don't mind MicroB Jul 31 12:38:10 i dont mind microb if im stuck in a bubble where time moves 10x slower than the rest of the world Jul 31 12:38:17 er faster Jul 31 12:38:20 hurrr Jul 31 12:38:28 heh Jul 31 12:38:31 yeah it's a bit slow Jul 31 12:38:37 but then so is Fennec, so not sure what other choices i have :P Jul 31 12:38:52 (except ones that look ugly) Jul 31 12:48:22 infobot: bupbat is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90864 Jul 31 12:48:22 DocScrutinizer05: okay Jul 31 12:58:19 (( hmm, maybe it just takes longer to index flac files)) missing flac support in tracker is a known issue, cured by re-running the postinstall of flac package iirc Jul 31 12:58:36 ooh, or ogg package ;-P Jul 31 13:09:37 Lava_Croft: mh, i always found microb to be much faster than any other browser, on n900 Jul 31 13:09:42 except for opera mobile Jul 31 13:09:44 which is not a browser Jul 31 13:15:18 opera is an image downloader :) Jul 31 13:17:05 kerio: it's slow compared to my Android browser (which runs on a very similarly specced phone), though Jul 31 13:17:25 DocScrutinizer05, is advanced-power and advanced-power-monitor a good idea to install, or somehow troublesome? Jul 31 13:17:38 LjL: it's crap Jul 31 13:17:54 if you want a fancier battery applet, install the one from pali Jul 31 13:18:01 the package is in cssu-devel Jul 31 13:18:26 ugh, so many repositories :P can i install that while not actually having cssu-devel installed? Jul 31 13:18:33 yes Jul 31 13:18:39 a repository is just a bunch of files Jul 31 13:19:05 LjL: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/s/status-area-applet-battery/status-area-applet-battery_1.0-8_armel.deb Jul 31 13:19:17 it should Just Work™ Jul 31 13:19:19 yeah i know, but it's possible a package from a repository will break stuff if it's supposed to be used with everything from that repository up to date Jul 31 13:19:22 ok Jul 31 13:19:35 why do you want advanced power monitor? Jul 31 13:19:43 are you using some kind of bme replacement? Jul 31 13:19:59 idk if it'll help, actually Jul 31 13:20:17 make sure you're in a position where you can reinstall the stock one Jul 31 13:20:28 just by uninstalling and reinstalling, it would work Jul 31 13:23:31 kerio: i have nothing fancy, would just like some more detailed battery info (although i realize they can be inaccurate) than just a green block that i have to guess the tallness of :P Jul 31 13:23:45 then the new battery applet should help with that Jul 31 13:23:55 but it's still awfully inaccurate, unless you calibrate bq27k Jul 31 13:23:57 in face Jul 31 13:23:58 fact Jul 31 13:24:04 calibrate bq27k Jul 31 13:24:07 it's cool Jul 31 13:26:01 i'll probably do that later, just not got around to it yet Jul 31 13:28:09 especially if you then install the bme replacement Jul 31 13:28:16 you get a stupidly accurate meter Jul 31 13:28:28 for everything Jul 31 13:28:37 DocScrutinizer05: how precise is bq27k? Jul 31 13:32:23 kerio: in its principles of operation it's extremely precise Jul 31 13:33:35 meh, i'm looking at cssu-testing and wanting to install bits of this and bits of that, is it going to be tragic if i just upgrade to cssu-testing? how "testing" is it? :P Jul 31 13:34:35 of course there are factors like battery chemistry introduced efficiency (ratio between energy you charged and energy that can get discharged) that bq27200 can not meter Jul 31 13:35:04 LjL: it's literally the testest Jul 31 13:35:15 but that gas gauge as such is very accurate Jul 31 13:38:33 cssu-t for long time been pretty stable and of good quality add-on on top of stock fremantle. Recently though it tends to transform towards some sort of experimental independent incompatible distro Jul 31 13:40:35 eeeeh Jul 31 13:40:46 we just need to hold pali back a bit Jul 31 13:44:46 uhm Jul 31 13:56:39 also, DocScrutinizer05 is lyin Jul 31 13:56:39 g Jul 31 14:04:25 kerio: ah, the applet looks good, no frills and it just gives me some estimate. it's what i was looking for. i'll install cssu-testing now Jul 31 14:05:14 kerio: yes, always I'm lying. So cssu-t was shit all times, and didn't change at all recently Jul 31 14:06:06 how come HAM and FAM have different repository lists? that's a bit annoying. i assumed they both just used /etc/apt/sources.list but apparently not Jul 31 14:06:36 kerio: are you aware that an accusation of lying is a severe insult? Jul 31 14:06:58 ~fapman Jul 31 14:06:58 well, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. Jul 31 14:07:24 DocScrutinizer05, often saying "x is lying" after someone says something in a bit of an exaggerate/playful way merely means "x is being facetious, he doesn't really mean it". that's how i took it, anyway Jul 31 14:08:01 well, I didn't Jul 31 14:08:07 neither of both Jul 31 14:11:10 each single word of my staement about cssu-t above been carefully chosen Jul 31 14:12:04 to support that statement I may say that I refuse to update since cssu-t7.2 Jul 31 14:13:18 and I honestly consider to reflash my daily phone and then swtich to CSSU-S Jul 31 14:13:23 i sense that while there is a lot of expertise around Maemo and friends, there may also be a fair bit of mutual developer hostility ;( Jul 31 14:14:22 I don't agree with either of your two statements in there Jul 31 14:15:04 i could certainly be wrong about them since i just came here. it's just a general first impression. Jul 31 14:18:30 btw cssu-devel is basically NOT a repo Jul 31 14:19:11 at least not in the sense any normal user would understand the term Jul 31 14:20:47 as a general rule, you should stay away from it by all means, unless you're interested in breaking your device to test a particular package Jul 31 14:21:39 it's developers' dropbox Jul 31 14:22:16 yeah, i read the TMO disclaimers Jul 31 14:22:26 i just installed that battery applet Jul 31 14:24:36 good Jul 31 14:24:56 even better if it actually works for you Jul 31 14:27:47 is there a way to have a reasonably working portrait keyboard? the default one gets all crammed in portrait mode (when it shows up as such at all), i saw there's a dialpad-style "portrait-keyboard", but when i install it, it gets used for landscape too Jul 31 14:29:13 sorry, I don't know. I'm not particularly interested in portrait mode, since otherwise... I could have moved on to N9 already Jul 31 14:29:53 heh Jul 31 14:30:39 i'm used to use a portait virtual keyboard and the physical keyboard alternatively, depending on how much and what kind of stuff i need writing Jul 31 14:30:43 there been a few quite nice keyboards in openmoko, you might want to port and test them maybe ;-) Jul 31 14:32:55 full qwerty kbd needs stylus for the minuscule keys. predictive error-correcting keyboard is useful only for plain text that the dictionary can predict/correct. The transparent fullscreen kbd is pretty nice for some usecases and actually finger-friendly Jul 31 14:39:24 sharp fingernail also kinda works.. being resistive ts Jul 31 16:08:33 [notice] preemptively announcing maemo.org service downtime later on Jul 31 16:08:47 tmo probably will be fine Jul 31 16:09:02 the rest might go down for a few hours Jul 31 16:21:05 jaska: yeah, i often use my nails with resistive screen, took me a while to adjust to "clumsy" capacitive thumb usage Jul 31 16:21:21 although now i'm back on a resistive screen, of course, it feels awkward being now used to capacitive :P Jul 31 16:21:43 yeah im incapable of operating capacitive without a conductive stylus Jul 31 16:22:29 i just hate using virtual keyboards on one Jul 31 16:22:42 i just refuse to use keyboardless :) Jul 31 16:22:52 stylus is tool of the gods Jul 31 16:24:25 kerio, can you give me a pointer about the alternative BME? all i know about it is that when i tried installed advanced-power a few days ago, there was "BME Alternative" in the options :P Jul 31 16:24:44 * DocScrutinizer05 beats Lava_Croft with his eten-M800 stylus Jul 31 16:25:05 ;-P Jul 31 16:25:05 also, i'm not sure, but it seems maybe GPS assistance works again after i installed this random hack from cssu-devel O.o actually i have satellites now, but i'm indoors, so i doubt it got a fix without assistance Jul 31 16:25:17 Don't you beat me, nerd!!!1 Jul 31 16:25:28 I cycled today, muscles ache Jul 31 16:25:46 also it rained, so my carton n900 bicycle case died Jul 31 16:25:57 so the last thing i need is someone hitting me with his 'stylus' Jul 31 16:26:10 :) Jul 31 16:26:45 the N810 might not be as hardware-capable as the N900 but damn does it look sleek Jul 31 16:27:06 YES! Jul 31 16:27:53 N810 isn't actually mine, it was a present for my sister, but by now my sister has got an Android phone and stopped using the N810, so i reclaimed it :P Jul 31 16:27:58 and I still think it has the better kbd. Others like to disagree Jul 31 16:29:12 the N810 key mapping is weird, but the kbd hw feels better to me than the N900's Jul 31 16:29:21 i don't know about that... the keys are more spaced, it "looks" better, it has more of them... but they're SO HARD to press Jul 31 16:29:42 the N950 keyboard looks very nice, but i never had the luxury to see it for real Jul 31 16:29:44 5510 had the lovely KB Jul 31 16:30:01 ew, no Jul 31 16:30:12 if we want to talk about lovely keyboards, let's talk Psion Jul 31 16:30:29 psion, Keyboards with an attached screen! Jul 31 16:30:31 >_> Jul 31 16:30:39 N950 keyboard is abysmal Jul 31 16:30:39 yes, those were very nice Jul 31 16:30:46 DocScrutinizer05: oh? Jul 31 16:31:19 n950 keys look all flat Jul 31 16:31:20 you basically can't type "blind"(?) on it Jul 31 16:31:54 the keys are *very* hard to distinguish tactile Jul 31 16:32:18 hmm. weird, in the pictures, they look more spaced than on either the N900 or the N810, so i assumed you could feel the space between them much better Jul 31 16:32:19 n950 keyboard looks like an apple one Jul 31 16:32:24 where the keys are just flat Jul 31 16:32:36 on the N900 i basically can't, the only thing that helps is the keys themselves being curved Jul 31 16:32:37 yeah Jul 31 16:32:41 they ARE just flat Jul 31 16:32:47 horrible:< Jul 31 16:32:58 they need to be curved either convex or concave Jul 31 16:33:05 if those are even the right terms Jul 31 16:33:05 fortunately my Milestone, too, has curved keys - because apparently some versions of it didn't - and i'm pretty sure i couldn't type on it with flat keys Jul 31 16:33:14 Lava_Croft: they should be Jul 31 16:33:52 still, my tactile cue on keyboards like the Psion's is not so much the curvature, but the "edges" of the keys. that's missing on the N900, N810 and Milestone Jul 31 16:36:12 N950 kbd is the second worst hw qwerty kbd I ever ran into. Absolute winner in that category is eten-M800 which not even has gaps between keys, and they are all black except the tiny writing which isn't at center of keycap Jul 31 16:37:38 so even when you look at the keyboard you always press some additional keys above and/or left of the one you intended to press Jul 31 16:38:06 my western european hands work fine with n900 Jul 31 16:38:07 particularly in the dark Jul 31 16:38:11 (ie. big hands) Jul 31 16:38:36 i must admit that it got a bit old to carry around a BT keyboard Jul 31 16:38:44 and on the train put your phone on the table and get out the keyboard Jul 31 16:42:40 WM phones... i have an HTC Universal, that's not bad, both keyboard-wise and in other ways Jul 31 16:43:14 however (i assume that's common to all WM phones) when you "turn it off", it actually goes into some suspend mode and can't stay connected to TCP/IP... if you actually want it to stay connected, then the battery dies in like 4 hours Jul 31 16:43:34 i guess it's intended to be more of PocketPC + a phone module thing, than an always-on device Jul 31 16:53:50 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1364135#post1364135 Jul 31 17:49:25 hi Jul 31 17:49:38 anyone from south america around ? Jul 31 19:07:43 [GENERAL NOTICE] maemo.org going down for maintenance NOW Jul 31 21:54:35 DocScrutinizer51: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30192955/ Jul 31 21:55:23 ooh, I bought a table from ikea today :) Jul 31 21:55:49 I built a table from some wood today. Jul 31 21:56:00 nice Jul 31 21:56:12 2m*1.2m or so, and I can barely lift it. Jul 31 21:56:52 mine is 95x55 and weights about 3 kg. some weird material Jul 31 21:57:08 wood pieces but very light Jul 31 21:58:35 Mine is made out of old fenceposts. Jul 31 21:58:38 SpeedEvil: hmm? Jul 31 21:58:45 Lightness is not one of its virtues. Jul 31 21:58:59 how do you know I need a new table? Jul 31 21:59:42 :) Jul 31 21:59:47 Oh, that one is even nicer Jul 31 22:00:10 but probbaly 15*15*25cm Jul 31 22:00:18 It was primarily a test piece to get my hand in, to try to make a 'passivehaus' shed. Jul 31 22:00:18 DocScrutinizer05: maybe issue a notice that normal operations are resumed Jul 31 22:00:43 F!! U!! ikea! Jul 31 22:01:01 even on scrolling(!) two cookie requesters pop up Jul 31 22:03:35 [GENERAL NOTICE] downtime ended, patches applied, all services started. Thank you for flying maemo.org. If you got complaints/suggestions/questions, please ping your stewardess Jul 31 22:05:31 ugh... I sort of am kind of ticked that firefox is actually letting content providers know that you're reading (i.e. scrolling down)... it doesn't load content until it becomes visible (scrolled to) and that's when the coookies come... Jul 31 22:05:48 think most browsers do this Jul 31 22:06:19 not sure exactly how the webpage is coded to do this tracking but apparently it's possible Jul 31 22:07:12 sort of like the favicon fiasco years ago. I wonder if they'll fix this, maybe nobody noticed it yet? Jul 31 22:07:20 (kind of doubt it but...) Jul 31 22:10:28 not konqueror Jul 31 22:10:47 konqueror will load the whole page (and deal with cookies up front)? Jul 31 22:10:53 this is a special ikea JS bullshit Jul 31 22:11:00 yes Jul 31 22:11:16 well i wish it treated that JS as if you scrolled it up front Jul 31 22:11:37 it might be the same problem - a normal page will be all loaded. JS might be doing this Jul 31 22:11:53 on whatever_even(){placefuckingcookie, do other nasty shit} Jul 31 22:12:05 s/even/event/ Jul 31 22:12:05 DocScrutinizer05 meant: on whatever_event(){placefuckingcookie, do other nasty shit} Jul 31 22:12:22 It would be _so_ nice if our dear legislators had a clue. Jul 31 22:12:39 on whenever_we_scroll_to_this_place_in_the_code() { read_this_advertisement_that_puts_a_cookie} Jul 31 22:12:54 And they would have specified that you diddn't have to show the stupid 'we may set cookies' - if the user has set an explicit preference in their browser. Jul 31 22:14:38 cnn.com does this BS. Jul 31 22:15:24 I don't care about the cookies that much but underhandedly writing JS to tell you're scrolling is BS Jul 31 22:16:08 hmm... wonder of i can hack greasemonkey to thwart it Jul 31 22:18:18 the cookie problem is so annoying I had to write a script to automatically delete any cookies not in a whitelist... Jul 31 22:18:55 hell, you got no cookie white7blacklist in your browser? Jul 31 22:19:06 I just let the cookies in and they get killed every once in a while :\ Jul 31 22:19:27 HEY GUYS!!!! AND GALS! HOW FEELS "the NEW" maemo,org? Jul 31 22:19:31 well, the problem being, I need to appear that I am allowing cookies... then make them disappear... Jul 31 22:20:01 ooh, I see Jul 31 22:20:32 look into inotifymonitor Jul 31 22:21:35 sorry, inotifywait Jul 31 22:22:05 funny enough not a part of a standard desktop linux installation Jul 31 22:22:28 ah, it's nothing I need to get rid of right away, I dump the cookies every once in a while, maybe every week or so Jul 31 22:23:23 infrequent enough to allow troublesome websites to work, frequent enough to mess with their user tracking :) Jul 31 22:24:57 while I start swearing... Jul 31 22:25:08 saturn:/etc # zypper search inotify-tools Jul 31 22:25:09 Loading repository data... Jul 31 22:25:11 Reading installed packages... Jul 31 22:25:12 No packages found. Jul 31 22:26:09 while... Jul 31 22:26:12 IroN900:~# dpkg -S inotifywait Jul 31 22:26:13 inotify-tools: /usr/bin/inotifywait Jul 31 22:26:28 ahh... i've always wondered what the SuSE package manager was... oops. Jul 31 22:28:04 hmm... somehow inotify-tools was a dependency on my gentoo boxes and thus it's been installed on my server... Jul 31 22:30:09 nope, it's installed because I forgot I installed it. Jul 31 22:36:41 damn, not a single comment regarding maemo.org? Jul 31 22:43:54 should we? :p Jul 31 22:46:13 Off to Europe, be back mid-April. :) Jul 31 23:03:09 DocScrutinizer51: Thanks! Jul 31 23:03:18 * SpeedEvil is kinda lagged these last months. :/ Jul 31 23:04:11 WTF??!! Jul 31 23:04:34 >>be back mid-April.< also why would one be offline in europe? :p Jul 31 23:06:18 we also have 3G internet coverage on most places Jul 31 23:06:20 theres no internet Jul 31 23:06:36 and we have evolved over carrier pidgin and smoke signals also :P Jul 31 23:10:07 ** this message sent to you from my pigeon loft Jul 31 23:10:19 Someone was probably trying to save as much cash as they can whilst roaming around in Europe, and/or they don't want to be bugged whilst on holiday (refer to Pali's case). Jul 31 23:10:50 international (data) roaming admittedly is either cumbersome or terribly expensive, or even both Jul 31 23:11:05 Yeah - you need to buy national SIMs generally. Jul 31 23:11:15 well was just going to say Jul 31 23:11:15 And finding sane ones can be an issue. Jul 31 23:11:17 buy local sim Jul 31 23:11:23 added advantage Jul 31 23:11:27 you dont get bugged! :P Jul 31 23:11:30 I've heard numerous times travelling within Europe is expensive on its own regardless if you are roaming or not. Jul 31 23:11:35 unless you give your number to buggers :) Jul 31 23:12:10 depends if its a round-trip or just staying at 1 location :) Jul 31 23:12:19 but hadnt considered the round-trip thingy :) Jul 31 23:12:22 hmm, traveling in europe is not more expensive than international traveling I'd say Jul 31 23:12:23 that sucks indeed Jul 31 23:12:29 Prices vary - in the UK you can now get 'all you can eat' data - on your phone - no tethering - for £15/mo. Jul 31 23:12:30 next year they promised a fix for that Jul 31 23:12:47 something like data roaming would be like a rate inside the home country Jul 31 23:12:48 It would be unwise to stay in one location in Europe.. so many countries in one small spot compared to say.. US. Jul 31 23:13:26 SpeedEvil: while that's nice if you can use it, it still seems too expensive for - say - 3 or 4 days Jul 31 23:13:47 True - to an extent. Jul 31 23:13:51 I happen to know a few details of woody's travel planning Jul 31 23:14:16 I think he's going to visit at least 3 countries in 2 weeks or sth Jul 31 23:14:18 But it may be not unreasonable for - say - 4 days being able to use netflix/... without restriction. Jul 31 23:14:50 odds are he could unpack and straight away bin his local SIMs Jul 31 23:14:57 Yeah I'd say that would be more economically viable. Its pretty much a waste to visit Europe and stay in one area during that entire time. Jul 31 23:15:58 I mean if you're forking out the travel arrangements, business visits are an exception of course. Jul 31 23:16:01 yeah i dunno depends if its for vacation or business :P Jul 31 23:16:21 i mean i also go to the US but not for 1 year ... Jul 31 23:16:27 thats not even allowed i think :( Jul 31 23:16:27