**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 27 02:59:58 2013 Aug 27 06:34:34 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/26/nokia_windows_rt_tablet/ Aug 27 06:37:04 me Aug 27 06:37:07 h Aug 27 10:01:47 * psycho_oreos drops a pin on the ground. Aug 27 10:03:47 ~seen freemangordon Aug 27 10:03:48 freemangordon <~freemango@130-204-50-168.2074221835.ddns.cablebg.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14h 13m 27s ago, saying: 'RiD: it is the lack of RAM that makes it slow ;)'. Aug 27 10:22:16 Sociality (facebook app) working for anyone? Aug 27 10:29:51 I personally don't use it, so I wouldn't know. Aug 27 10:30:31 just kiddie question: what is the problem with 1GB RAM on GTA04? 512 is better than 256 on n900, but it is not much.. after 2 years Neo900 will be "old"... as N900 today. Aug 27 10:30:53 Wizzup: still opped? :D Aug 27 10:32:08 seems like it Aug 27 10:32:26 lexik: I would also pay for a bit more ram Aug 27 10:32:43 I guess some people ask too much for what they're willing to pay. Making their dollar stretch further (or Euro for that matter) Aug 27 10:34:28 The real idea I suppose is to code memory efficient programs rather than making the whole situation MS-like. Aug 27 10:35:44 People will always ask more and then they would be demanding the device to also emulate . Aug 27 10:36:13 * psycho_oreos looks at this PSP game emulator thread. Aug 27 10:36:35 psycho_oreos: well, if it is enough for fennec then I'm ok with it Aug 27 10:36:49 ;-) Aug 27 10:37:43 512 is lowend today... what about after 1? 2? 3 years? Aug 27 10:37:43 Wizzup, imo the way fennec is headed.. its hardly any different to MS. Aug 27 10:38:32 i dont want to buy every year new version of GTA0* :D Aug 27 10:38:42 fennec was a lot faster at boot during beta days. As version increases, so did the boot time. Aug 27 10:39:13 psycho_oreos: I felt it got faster Aug 27 10:39:18 but it is still unusable Aug 27 10:39:35 I just hope for a non-webkit browser :) Aug 27 10:40:40 Buy it and be happy. Afterall we are talking about embedded devices, not laptops or desktops (with the like of user-upgradeable parts) Aug 27 10:41:14 Wizzup: you referring to the thumb version of fennec? Aug 27 10:41:31 oh, I am happy even with less ram ;-) Aug 27 10:41:48 I just think it's a valid question and worth considering - if it hasn't been considered before Aug 27 10:44:47 I'd be happy if GTA-04 would have identical hardware specs as N900 but more of those extra components and maybe even speed upgrade. Ultimately, I like the project to head onto something like Neo950 (using e7 as base). I really personally like the design aesthetics of e7/N950 over N900. Aug 27 10:45:18 once of course is if Neo900 turns out to be a hit. Aug 27 10:45:52 hi Aug 27 10:45:59 hi Aug 27 10:46:26 I was just asking what is the problem... 512 is lowend today.. and with Cortex A8? for $700? eh?.. i also want to use replicant on it.. and my neural network project also needs more performance Aug 27 10:47:07 Last I checked with openmoko stuff, they only had dual/tri-band? N900 is quadband iinm. Aug 27 10:49:40 I think people didn't like how N900 was "swap-tastic" :) Besides, performance comes as a price if running memory intensive tasks, multitasking or leaving device on for several days. Aug 27 10:52:27 I sorta hate to mention this but on the other side of fence, android devices seems to not get a massive hit on performance over several days worth of uptime. Whereas on N900 the device starts to get sluggish after a few days of uptime. At least for me the case is like that. Aug 27 10:53:18 I guess its also a case of YMMV as well. Aug 27 10:58:18 * psycho_oreos wonders if its a good idea to suggest Pali to start applying things like bfs kernel patches. Maybe the end result is neglegible. Aug 27 11:01:38 psycho_oreos: reload swaps, make a big ramdisk to push stuff out of memory Aug 27 11:04:56 Hurrian, I can see how the first portion would work (in fact there's a program for that, provided if setup correctly). ramdisk requires so editing to kernel bootup iinm, also not sure how is that even beneficial to force programs to swap. Aug 27 11:05:32 psycho_oreos: the idea is to unload libraries and binaries cached in RAM Aug 27 11:05:53 system UI things will get reloaded into RAM once you start using it Aug 27 11:06:13 just make a large ramdisk, dd a big file to it, when that fils up, unload the ramdisk. Aug 27 11:08:15 Hurrian, size of ramdisk needs to be specified iinm at boot. Plus making a big ramdisk (something like 256M), gets stuff pushed into swap?. Hmm maybe no. Aug 27 11:13:03 Just looked at optimizen900 it also kills systemui (along with others) in a bid to refresh N900. Aug 27 11:13:34 The only thing I guess missing from that idea is to flopswap. Aug 27 11:15:14 Try run it several times quickly after eachother ;-) Aug 27 11:17:05 pffftt... hah! Aug 27 11:17:39 Why not make a nice while loop at it :p Aug 27 11:18:41 s/at/whilst at/ Aug 27 11:18:42 psycho_oreos meant: Why not make a nice while loop whilst at it :p Aug 27 11:26:11 phryk: I've often had my n900 on for weeks Aug 27 11:26:17 ah, sorry, I meant psycho_oreos Aug 27 11:26:30 psycho_oreos: without any real noticable slowdowns Aug 27 11:26:58 Hurrian: why not swapoff and swapon? Aug 27 11:29:37 Wizzup, what about 7 days of uptime, a few microB session (on *.maemo.org), omp and getting a phone call? :) Aug 27 11:30:01 psycho_oreos: I usually never shut down my n900 Aug 27 11:30:07 I charge it at night, while its on Aug 27 11:30:11 I use it extensively during the day Aug 27 11:30:27 can go on like that for months Aug 27 11:33:17 Wizzup, no issues with incoming phone calls? I couldn't hang up an incoming call. Took a fair few seconds for the device to even pickup my finger pressing on the screen. Aug 27 11:33:36 phryk: no, not really Aug 27 11:33:41 argh Aug 27 11:33:51 s/phruk/psycho_oreos/ Aug 27 11:33:56 oh man :) Aug 27 11:34:00 anyway, you get the point Aug 27 11:34:12 Maybe try a reflash at some point? You probably have some buggy program running Aug 27 11:35:55 Yeah, I recall you did a reflash sometime ago. I won't be able to do that anytime soon (until PC gets fixed *rolls eyes*) Aug 27 11:37:29 That plus the joy with all the custom made stuff go missing. Aug 27 11:38:52 :F Aug 27 11:43:25 * psycho_oreos muses the thought of using two N900 to perform flashing. One with usbmode set to host and running flasher, the other is just set to flashing mode. Aug 27 11:43:59 psycho_oreos: yes, but I *had* to reflash :) Aug 27 11:48:25 Wizzup, yeah. That would've been fun :P lol Aug 27 11:52:27 lexik: about Neo900 RAM: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369704&postcount=112 Aug 27 11:53:19 LjL-Alps: anything you want to ask about SHR? ;) Aug 27 11:54:42 dos1: yes, is this a better place? i am connecting from a capped 3G connection, so usually i would just go and download whatever it takes, but i have to spare my bandwidth. so... does it work alright on the N900? any off-limit hardware? what's the "Aurora" image, which is much smaller than the other one? Aug 27 11:55:11 also, i might be getting a Galaxy Nexus later - does it work well on that one? it isn't even listed on the wiki, but there's images to download Aug 27 11:55:39 #openmoko-cdevel is where SHR devs mainly are Aug 27 11:56:28 it should work on N900, but expect some glitches and non full hardware integration Aug 27 11:57:17 we were very enthusiastic about N900 port some time ago, but we lacked manpower to do modem integration and power management properly Aug 27 11:57:17 dosl: thanks... im not happy from it :-/ what about swap on superfast micro-SD? Aug 27 11:57:31 ah :\ Aug 27 11:58:37 LjL-Alps: but it should work somehow, might be worth trying just for the sake of playing with it Aug 27 11:59:40 dos1: certainly worth it, but maybe i can wait until i have normal connectivity again. the Aurora thing is just 35MB though, so i could get that... not sure if it's the same thing with less built-in programs, or an actually different UI, though Aug 27 11:59:42 I was the first man on earth with SHR running (well... big word - "booting" is better ;)) on N900... good times :D Aug 27 12:00:16 LjL-Alps: Aurora is different Aug 27 12:00:49 lexik: should be possible, but SDs are easy to wear off in this way Aug 27 12:01:50 dos1: oh i get it now, i missed a part on the wiki where it says Aurora is something that "emulates a non-smartphone" Aug 27 12:05:52 LjL-Alps: and about Galaxy Nexus - I have no idea. You might want to ask JaMa on #openmoko-cdevel, I think that's him who was playing with those images Aug 27 12:06:04 dos1: ok, thanks Aug 27 12:07:27 dosl: okay, now im happy again :).. if i will one day own Neo900 i will for sure buy some fast SD (last time when i was looking there was SDs with 90Mega read/write) and i will use it as swap Aug 27 12:10:54 * psycho_oreos wonders will speed then be an issue (on the N900 bus that is). Aug 27 12:16:44 SDs are pretty hard to wear out. Aug 27 12:17:31 And sequential speeds bear little relation to what speed it'll reach when swapping :) Aug 27 12:24:54 I don't know how long microSD last if they were to be used as swaps. Though you can hear people are avoiding swaps on SSD, of course the case here is different compared to embedded hardware. Aug 27 12:30:00 Mine have lasted long enough to become obsolete. Aug 27 12:33:06 I guess I've had 2 or 3 different since 2009 Aug 27 12:33:27 8g, 16g, etc Aug 27 12:37:40 *shrugs* dunno if this would be related but I have had issues with my Class 10 microSDHC. I ended up with major FS corruption. Aug 27 12:39:48 Hopefully, once I can get my PC up and more scratch space. I'll try and "scalp" some data out. Aug 27 12:40:05 Some of them have very high latency Aug 27 12:40:18 and time out Aug 27 12:41:19 * psycho_oreos imagines one would need to tweak the rootdelay= kernel arg. Aug 27 12:41:28 Unrelated Aug 27 12:41:48 ... especially as maemo kernel boots up without sd or emmc drivers loaded Aug 27 12:42:38 All first generation class 10 cards are like that really, take seconds to respond to non-sequential writes... benchmarks 4 times slower than a 2009 Sandisk class 2 card. Aug 27 12:45:11 dosl: correct me if im wrong: we are --expecting-- that Neo900 will have 1GHz clocked Cortex A8 and 512mega of RAM, but the RAM size --can-- be bigger, if we were lucky Aug 27 12:47:22 The internal storage will be 1GB (hmpf.. 32Giga MyDocs on N900, byyee) + microSD Aug 27 12:49:37 Maybe is an good idea to create Wiki page for that and write there some info about specs to avoid questions like theese :D Aug 27 12:50:05 lexik: internal storage is not settled yet at all Aug 27 12:50:37 lexik: it might be 1GB NAND + 32GB eMMC + microSD Aug 27 12:50:55 that sounds good Aug 27 12:51:38 let's wait until Joerg and Nikolaus sit together and find out what's realistic and what's not Aug 27 12:54:41 By the way, what is the status of "community funded" n900 for experiments? i saw that one user on tmo is offering us his one. Also i saw some irc logs saying something about that it will be bought via the Hildon Found. PP account Aug 27 13:08:20 http://olx-t.imgrap.com/ui/26/82/73/441387973_6x.jpg?x=1377597847 Aug 27 13:08:41 is the battery full, with that indicator? Aug 27 13:41:29 seems like Wizzup's connection died Aug 27 13:43:13 I've bought a cheap usb charging cable for N800 and it never stops charging (even when switched off); is this ok? Aug 27 13:46:51 DocScrutinizer51: this Wizzup` connection should be more stable ;-) Aug 27 13:47:12 huh? Aug 27 13:47:21 the wizzup op timed out Aug 27 13:47:26 np Aug 27 13:47:30 I'm back Aug 27 13:47:35 even better Aug 27 13:47:41 now I don't need to watch the channel closely Aug 27 13:47:43 thanks Aug 27 13:47:48 welcome ^^ Aug 27 13:48:25 reminds me to claim GC for #maemo Aug 27 13:48:50 * DocScrutinizer05 is terribly disorganized atm Aug 27 13:49:14 too much on my table, not only maemo-related Aug 27 13:49:41 DocScrutinizer05: did you PM that guy which is offering us his n900 in thread? Aug 27 13:49:57 he asked when he might get it back Aug 27 13:50:04 :D Aug 27 13:50:39 maybe never, maybe after few months little augmented Aug 27 13:50:49 hardly augmented Aug 27 13:50:52 * Wizzup` has three n900s, one with a broken usb Aug 27 13:50:58 rather as a kit ;-P Aug 27 13:51:21 but he has a chance to get Neo900 for free :D Aug 27 13:51:31 also hardly Aug 27 13:51:55 those boards initially cost *us* >>1000EUR to produce Aug 27 13:52:13 usually there are 2 or 3 of them Aug 27 13:53:21 they get shipped around from one devel to the next one, for a few days to do some specific tests. we don't have give-aways to hand out Aug 27 13:53:54 as much as we'd like to do that, we can't afford Aug 27 13:55:05 actually it's unclear how we can afford the proto-boards _we_ need to do Aug 27 13:55:47 we may need a kickstarter of raising funds for those Aug 27 13:55:57 s/of/or/ Aug 27 13:55:57 DocScrutinizer05 meant: we may need a kickstarter or raising funds for those Aug 27 13:56:31 hm.. so? Are we going to buy N900 from HF PP? Aug 27 13:56:46 sorry? Aug 27 13:57:01 Hildon Foundation PayPal Aug 27 13:57:02 :) Aug 27 13:57:06 seems this one post raises 3 questions at my side Aug 27 13:57:16 :P Aug 27 13:57:27 I do not mind donating some money to buy a n900... Aug 27 13:58:05 aaah, well. I think I will send Nikolaus one of my N900, and I fill up my shelf with a new one paid from the donations that are on my auxiliary "HF"-donation PP Aug 27 13:58:36 okey Aug 27 13:59:13 I just need to check if I got enough money not dedicated to maemo.org infra mantenance by donors Aug 27 13:59:43 or I start a new fundraiser dedicated to Neo900 Aug 27 14:00:03 * DocScrutinizer05 needs mar coffee Aug 27 14:00:09 ^^ +1 Aug 27 14:00:10 moarMOAR Aug 27 14:01:25 * DocScrutinizer05 desperately tries to recall why he seemingly got a full narcosis yesterday. At least head feels like that Aug 27 14:01:27 I'm going to make cssu-similar cube dedicated to fundraiser dedicated to Neo900 Aug 27 14:01:57 ??? Aug 27 14:02:00 cube? Aug 27 14:02:05 brick Aug 27 14:02:19 call it how you want Aug 27 14:02:28 cssu banner on tmo Aug 27 14:02:29 you lost me Aug 27 14:02:33 aaaah Aug 27 14:02:51 :) Aug 27 14:02:53 well, notions towards banners are very ambivalent Aug 27 14:03:09 seems a lot of people hate them Aug 27 14:03:43 * DocScrutinizer05 has no particular notion regarding this banner topic Aug 27 14:04:22 also we need some graphical materials for kickstarter Aug 27 14:04:23 anyway chem|st is on holiday? Aug 27 14:04:57 and some stupid-Horst-Fux-text Aug 27 14:06:06 DocScrutinizer05: how much money are you expecting from kickstarter? $200? $20000 ? Aug 27 14:07:21 for Neo900 development kickoff? dunno, Nikolaus is the expert who has paid the bills of GTA04 development. I guess some 5k to 10k Aug 27 14:07:55 for the initial 2 or three runs of prottypes Aug 27 14:07:57 There ought to be a N900-Successor? Aug 27 14:08:12 Apic: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 14:08:19 tnx Aug 27 14:08:25 Apic: you honestly missed http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1369729 ? Aug 27 14:08:53 dang, dos1 beat me to it. Moinmoin dos1 :-) Aug 27 14:08:54 Way cool! Aug 27 14:09:14 ;-) Aug 27 14:09:41 dos1: many thanks for your awesome help, I guess without it I already had pulled the plug from my PC Aug 27 14:10:56 10k.. thats possible.. but i dont know.. isn't indiegogo better for that purpose? (why canonical choose it for Ubuntu Edge?) Aug 27 14:11:15 DocScrutinizer05: moin :) Aug 27 14:11:15 kickstarter for a phone? Aug 27 14:11:36 I doubt it is going to work unless you set a few millions :( Aug 27 14:11:37 no problem, I really, really want to make it happen :D Aug 27 14:12:14 jon_y: it already worked without kickstarter -> see GTA04 Aug 27 14:12:34 link pls :) Aug 27 14:12:45 jon_y: now some donations would be needed just to be able to pay for prototypes Aug 27 14:12:47 Wizzup` broken usb.. ugh me hates Aug 27 14:12:57 jon_y: see tmo link few messages above Aug 27 14:13:25 ? Aug 27 14:13:45 ~neo900 Aug 27 14:13:46 hmm... neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 14:13:51 :) Aug 27 14:13:54 :) Aug 27 14:13:58 :) Aug 27 14:14:07 so do I need to go all the way to another continent to buy one? Aug 27 14:14:08 :) :) :) :) Aug 27 14:14:15 =) =) =) Aug 27 14:14:26 smilies spammers? Aug 27 14:14:33 jon_y: what? no Aug 27 14:14:45 egads, the casing is ugly :( Aug 27 14:14:55 I'd take the one without the case thanks Aug 27 14:15:09 ?! :DD Aug 27 14:15:24 jon_y: Neo900 project aims to adapt GTA04 board to upgrade it a bit, add missing peripherals and use N900 case Aug 27 14:15:32 dude, seriously, whats with all the wonky curves at the bottom Aug 27 14:15:51 it looks like a shrunken PSP Aug 27 14:16:18 great idea Aug 27 14:16:18 N900 or Neo Freerunner? Aug 27 14:16:21 put your n900 inside a psp Aug 27 14:16:27 :D Aug 27 14:16:32 >wonky curves at the bottom Aug 27 14:16:33 ~#maemo 9 is see neo900 Aug 27 14:16:33 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Aug 27 14:16:36 ~9 Aug 27 14:16:37 methinks neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 14:16:37 PSP Go is sort of similar! Aug 27 14:16:45 so I guess Neo Freerunner Aug 27 14:17:00 you either love or hate that case ;) Aug 27 14:17:02 what no hardkeyboard Aug 27 14:17:16 I guess the rs232 can make up for it Aug 27 14:17:52 jon_y: we're discussing here Neo900, you're talking about GTA04 as it is now Aug 27 14:18:01 ..probably Aug 27 14:18:03 Neo900 will have hw keyboard, cause N900 does Aug 27 14:18:18 yeah, I was looking at the GTA04 Aug 27 14:18:35 promise me you'll ditch the ugly case :) Aug 27 14:18:35 and Neo900 is GTA04 BOARD in N900 CASE Aug 27 14:18:46 GTA04 was made as a replacement mainboard for Neo Freerunner Aug 27 14:18:46 good Aug 27 14:18:51 so it uses Freerunner's case Aug 27 14:19:01 Neo900 aims to adapt GTA04 to use N900 case instead Aug 27 14:19:02 no wonder it didn't do well Aug 27 14:19:04 i got GTA 4 Aug 27 14:19:07 * RiD runs Aug 27 14:19:22 RiD: ;) Aug 27 14:20:26 so how are you suppose to get the Neo900 anyway? Aug 27 14:20:48 jon_y: it's in early planing stage, the idea came out just few days ago Aug 27 14:20:49 why not reappropriate the N-series from Nokia to spite them? :) Aug 27 14:20:53 N1000 Aug 27 14:21:10 Nokia doesn't own the letter N yet Aug 27 14:21:16 t1000 Aug 27 14:21:27 sure, NX Aug 27 14:21:47 or N9000 Aug 27 14:22:06 ^ Aug 27 14:22:42 N900v2 for extra spite Aug 27 14:22:49 N900 Aug 27 14:23:08 wait, i got the perfect one. N900⁰⁰€ Aug 27 14:23:35 hmm, I'm not understanding what the symbols mean Aug 27 14:23:45 some Euro signs? Aug 27 14:24:18 stop it. It is Neo900. The End. Aug 27 14:24:21 N-over9000 Aug 27 14:24:34 Ggggnnnnnnnnnn900 Aug 27 14:24:41 Trinity900 Aug 27 14:24:47 sure, how do I smuggle these over international borders? Aug 27 14:24:59 tax rate is insane here Aug 27 14:25:13 up to 100% for "sample" units Aug 27 14:25:28 Smith900 Aug 27 14:25:45 No. Neo is da best. Aug 27 14:25:50 I need to fly over to another continent to get it, probably :( Aug 27 14:26:04 To get what? Aug 27 14:26:22 Neo900 is now just a thread+idea Aug 27 14:26:25 if the Neo900 does get released Aug 27 14:26:42 where are you from Aug 27 14:26:44 ? Aug 27 14:26:53 South East Asia Aug 27 14:27:05 we need a female n900 Aug 27 14:27:10 Nina900 Aug 27 14:27:19 Nina-nehundred Aug 27 14:27:50 I am already having a hard time finding anything that isn't LG, Samsung or Apple Aug 27 14:28:31 so far I have only seen 2 other N900 in the wild Aug 27 14:28:40 no one has heard of it Aug 27 14:43:35 (([2013-08-27 16:20:48] jon_y: it's in early planing stage, the idea came out just few days ago)) actually Ihad that idea for several months, but I finally did the "public kickoff" 2 days ago Aug 27 14:43:59 yeah, so it "came out" to the public ;) Aug 27 14:44:50 so have there been attempts of porting maemo to an existing, say, android device? Aug 27 14:45:06 it would be interesting to see if it could be running on the droid series for example Aug 27 14:46:06 droid phones are pretty much locked up Aug 27 14:46:16 ah, ok Aug 27 14:46:17 and it's harder to port to andoid phones anyway Aug 27 14:46:28 yes, but I think mer runs on some, or was that only the tablet? Aug 27 14:49:04 Wizzup`: see http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Maemo_Getting_Started Aug 27 14:51:14 I see Aug 27 14:51:20 it's not insane idea to port fremantle to a new hw platform. It's difficult to make *all* peripherals work, particularly modem. It's probably futile to try and make GPS "as we know it2 work on any new platform, since GPS is hooked up to BB5 modem on N900 Aug 27 14:51:57 yes, I understand some core components might not work Aug 27 14:52:06 I was mostly thinking of the general env - not so much gsm stack etc Aug 27 14:52:42 on GTA04-n900 aka Neo900 we are free to adapt hw to some degree so we make it easier to adapt sw/kernel to that hardware Aug 27 14:52:54 we are getting a new kernel on it right? Aug 27 14:53:18 what is the gpu on it? Aug 27 14:53:32 yep, we need a "new" kernel to catch up all the little hw differences between N900 and Neo900 Aug 27 14:53:45 GPU is in SoC, so identical Aug 27 14:53:56 unless we go for OMAP4 Aug 27 14:54:16 (which we won't do, for exactly that reason, among others) Aug 27 14:54:24 so powervr Aug 27 14:54:26 ok Aug 27 15:00:40 we got a ex-Nokia kernel developer already as volunteer who's willing to help on porting the fremantle kernel to new platform Aug 27 15:01:07 so if even ex-Nokia kernel devels think the idea is worth it.... Aug 27 15:01:08 Kewl Aug 27 15:01:47 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I just really dislike the powervr :p Aug 27 15:01:57 mali would be nice... but I don't think OMAP uses anything but powervr Aug 27 15:01:59 well, who doesn't Aug 27 15:02:17 but it's what we got, and we need to work with it Aug 27 15:02:23 :) Aug 27 15:03:24 this project isn't about inventing a leete new OS with bleeding edge kernel and other core functions, that somehow looks like maemo Aug 27 15:04:11 anybody planning to do that is free to start such project any time, without help from me or other GTA04 and Openmoko related persons Aug 27 15:04:13 what's wrong with the PowerVR? (since i might just buy a phone that also uses it) Aug 27 15:04:31 #1: closed drivers, aiui Aug 27 15:04:47 ah well, they all have those though :( Aug 27 15:04:59 unless Lima pulls something good off Aug 27 15:05:07 not even openmoko / GTA04 was able to provide FOSS drivers for it Aug 27 15:05:26 mali400 I heard has semi-open drivers Aug 27 15:05:45 i don't know about semi-open, i know there's this "Lima" project to create open ones Aug 27 15:05:46 see NovaThor Aug 27 15:06:03 DocScrutinizer05: I have a mali 400, the lima driver is not ready Aug 27 15:06:10 they have working 3d and stuff, but no X - yet Aug 27 15:06:18 but it's a lot more promising than mali Aug 27 15:06:23 there's also freedrone Aug 27 15:06:25 freedreno Aug 27 15:06:35 and I think there's also some decent work for the snapdragons? Aug 27 15:06:45 freedreno is most advanced Aug 27 15:06:54 I dunno, I just asked inside ST-Ericsson about what I could do to help dm8tbr and co about some GPL-issue with a .h for mali400 Aug 27 15:07:19 doesn't mean I looked into the mali400 linux driver project closely Aug 27 15:08:38 DocScrutinizer05: I am using a mali for my desktop right now :-) Aug 27 15:09:37 about that .h file for NovaThor, it been OSS but not FOSS, means ST-Ericsson didn't feel like GPLing it Aug 27 15:09:49 which is terribly silly Aug 27 15:10:20 and of course the FOSS community said "either GPL or we won't touch it" ;-P Aug 27 15:10:39 oh right Aug 27 15:10:44 I wanted to ask -- I have another ``half'' n900 Aug 27 15:10:51 Mainly: the top part of a n900 Aug 27 15:11:02 I think the digitizer is broken, but the lcd still works I think Aug 27 15:11:22 I want to see if I can somehow use the lcd from another device ... I guess I'll have to research the connector Aug 27 15:11:55 sorry? Aug 27 15:12:28 yeah, nvm Aug 27 15:12:36 I'll think about it a bit more and come with a concrete q Aug 27 15:12:56 you want to use it FOR another project? Aug 27 15:13:17 not use some LCD _from_ another project Aug 27 15:13:20 well, I just want to send data to it and see it display something Aug 27 15:13:24 no, I have a spare-n900 lcd Aug 27 15:13:30 no particular project, just for fun Aug 27 15:14:26 ~schem Aug 27 15:14:30 ~schematics Aug 27 15:14:30 well, schematics is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic Aug 27 15:15:28 DocScrutinizer05: are there any chances to get 1-2GB ram into the Neo900? Aug 27 15:17:28 2? calm down Aug 27 15:17:32 this aint android Aug 27 15:18:29 cehteh: yet to be evaluated Aug 27 15:18:45 depends on SoC (since RAM is in PoP) Aug 27 15:18:50 i tihnk the point is more availability than price Aug 27 15:18:52 yes Aug 27 15:19:01 and I dunno if OMAP3 even supports >512RAM Aug 27 15:19:08 me neither Aug 27 15:19:56 would be nice though .. and prolly only a few bucks more expensive Aug 27 15:20:34 with 2GB i'd keep all apps I use open Aug 27 15:21:45 well they prolly suck power as well, not so good idea, but i think it should aim for as much as possible ram as doable (availability and price) Aug 27 15:22:09 shouldn't suck that much... i guess Aug 27 15:22:13 N9 is omap3 Aug 27 15:22:18 isn't it? Aug 27 15:22:40 yup Aug 27 15:56:04 I probably should've said "I dunno if DM3730 can have PoP with more than 512MB RAM" Aug 27 15:57:17 oooh, and I wouldn't go for TI OMAP4 ever, it has nasty SiErr that is WONTFIX for OMAP4 Aug 27 15:57:50 particularly not coming back from idle on GPIO-IRQ Aug 27 15:58:37 which makes everything a monster PITA, I had my share of fun for making HSI interface work Aug 27 15:58:57 * LjL-Alps shudders, since that's what his prospective Galaxy Nexus mounts Aug 27 15:59:00 "bug: AP doesn't awake on modem activity" Aug 27 16:00:00 "bug: modem log buffer overflow" Aug 27 16:00:17 "bug: HSI freezing" Aug 27 16:01:06 TI: "wontfix in OMAP4, sheduled fix in OMAP5" Aug 27 16:01:32 LOLWUT?!!?? Aug 27 16:02:17 I've found that DM3730 supports up to 4Gb RAM - so now... was that really Gb (512 MB) or mistyped GB? ;x Aug 27 16:02:18 it seems to only happen when certain patterns of active and passive blocks on SoC Aug 27 16:02:24 looks like Gb - http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/davinci_digital_media_processors/f/537/t/281576.aspx Aug 27 16:02:53 thought as much Aug 27 16:03:07 been there, checked that Aug 27 16:03:55 matter of addr pins on PoP interface Aug 27 16:04:29 4g ram is in practice not doable either, I/O takes up much address space Aug 27 16:04:41 I wasn't all sure, so I said "I dunno..." instead of "it doesn't..." Aug 27 16:05:38 what do memory makers mean by "Meg" and "Gig"? ... Aug 27 16:05:52 *shrug* Aug 27 16:06:05 usually 2^N Aug 27 16:06:31 bbl, have to run Aug 27 16:06:56 yeah, but "1 Gig" - is it gigabyte? gigabit? I hate that :/ Aug 27 16:07:07 bit Aug 27 16:07:21 most usually bit Aug 27 16:07:47 since memmaker doesn't care about wordsize of AP Aug 27 16:08:03 can be byte, 16bit, even 18bit, whatever Aug 27 16:08:22 so mem size is usually *bit Aug 27 16:08:42 k Aug 27 16:08:52 o/ Aug 27 16:08:54 makes some sense Aug 27 16:08:59 cya Aug 27 16:34:01 re Aug 27 17:07:52 You guys seem pretty competent. I wanna try archlinux on my laptop, but I gotta use it for a 1 week work course in 2 weeks. Will it destroy my hardware if I forget to install something? Like hw monitors/sensors, not enabling or installing modules etc. or will I just be able to revert back to crunchbang if I screw up? Aug 27 17:11:06 heh.. offtopic, but: probably no. however Arch Linux is well documented, so dont worry Aug 27 17:12:21 if you will forget some driver, for example, it will "just not work" Aug 27 17:13:13 Well I can just wipe the HD and install another distro then right? Aug 27 17:13:18 [/offtopic] Aug 27 17:13:25 yes Aug 27 17:13:25 yes Aug 27 17:13:42 And sorry for the off-topic. Competent people are hard to come by Aug 27 17:13:49 Thanks Aug 27 17:14:17 you *might* "destroy" your whataver-crap installation invented in redmond though, when you do not take care during repartitioning the HD Aug 27 17:14:59 I.E. take care of your windows (and maybe recovery) partitions Aug 27 17:15:06 dont have windows Aug 27 17:15:29 Crap laptop, and CrunchBang is not light enough Aug 27 17:16:02 crunchbag is not light enough?!?! :D Aug 27 17:16:33 It's really really bad. But I only use it once every blue moon for libreoffice Aug 27 17:17:26 if crunchbag is not light enough, maybe try Gentoo Aug 27 17:17:57 So if I can get arch working I can decide how light-weight it'll be and get some experience Aug 27 17:18:11 Yeah I dont got the time for that :P Aug 27 17:19:11 what about Puppy Linux? it is ugly (just like from '95) but EXTREMELY lightweight Aug 27 17:19:29 or Damn small linux / Tiny core linux? Aug 27 17:20:08 Yeah but I'd get some experience from arch and wouldn't have to ask stupid questions like these anymore Aug 27 17:21:45 No you can't destroy your HW, if you will fsck something up, you can recover it via some livecd distr Aug 27 17:23:22 also you can play with this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 Aug 27 17:23:49 Exactly ^^ Was also on of the reasons I wanted to try arch on a laptop first Aug 27 17:25:21 My first experience with Arch Linux was that :) Aug 27 17:25:54 Now i'm going to get X working Aug 27 17:27:15 after that i'm going to play with Gentoo :) Aug 27 17:28:26 also interesting: http://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900 Aug 27 17:55:10 ~pr131 Aug 27 17:55:11 somebody said combined was the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Aug 27 17:55:12 ShadowJK: ^ Aug 27 18:07:53 First time Im in chroot. Can I install things while chrooted into a system? Aug 27 18:08:59 Installing arch and sh: nano: command not found. Aug 27 18:13:23 hello there Aug 27 18:13:42 is there a way to receive push notifications from ZNC in maemo ? Aug 27 18:19:36 push notifications? what are those? Aug 27 18:21:55 instead of your device initiate a connection to a remote server to see if there's new info Aug 27 18:22:07 the central/remote server pushes that to your device Aug 27 18:22:35 so if someone says your name in IRC you get notified instantly Aug 27 18:22:47 instead of after 5 minutes when you pull for the data from your device Aug 27 18:23:29 kick-buttowski: yes, I think there's some mail service for that in ZNC1.9 Aug 27 18:23:36 1.0 even Aug 27 18:24:09 imagined as much Aug 27 18:24:16 but an email seems expensive for something like this Aug 27 18:24:26 and was wondering if maemo had stuff like this Aug 27 18:24:31 https://github.com/jreese/znc-push Aug 27 18:24:48 what else could ZNC possibly do? it doesn't know what's the IP of your client Aug 27 18:25:21 that's right, znc needs to be hooked to a service Aug 27 18:25:50 there are a lot of those for iOS and android Aug 27 18:25:58 because push is heavily used there Aug 27 18:27:31 push is a fuzzy term, used for glorified obfuscated pull services Aug 27 18:27:58 there's no technical means to "push" sth to a mobile device with changing IP Aug 27 18:28:17 the mobile *always* needs to do some form of pull Aug 27 18:28:28 that's correct, but I'm not trying to argue semantics here Aug 27 18:28:30 well, the device makes connection to server Aug 27 18:28:49 but preserves it, so then server can "push" Aug 27 18:28:54 even for SMS based push the mobile does "pull" by registering to the network Aug 27 18:28:57 that's the term that's been widely adopted and I have no interest in changing it :) Aug 27 18:29:38 so there's some pull (making connection), but it's a bit different than standard pulling or even long polling Aug 27 18:29:41 in anycase even if it's not 100% pull and does require the device to at some point register itself Aug 27 18:29:56 it's not like a mail client logging in via IMAP every 10 minutes Aug 27 18:30:05 so you can call all that's going on between ZNC and IRC client ass "push" already Aug 27 18:30:13 s/ass/as/ Aug 27 18:30:13 DocScrutinizer05 meant: so you can call all that's going on between ZNC and IRC client as "push" already Aug 27 18:30:46 kick-buttowski: yes, it's exactly that Aug 27 18:31:59 your IRC client "logs in" to ZNC and every now and then sends a keep-alive-ping (every 180s or sth). Everything else is already PUSH Aug 27 18:32:52 i think you are looking at it the wrong way Aug 27 18:33:05 to keep a connection to a mobile roaming device, the device needs to send NAT keep alive packets every few minutes Aug 27 18:33:05 right Aug 27 18:33:43 "push notifications" technically are just as simple as that Aug 27 18:33:57 everything else that's sent from a server to that device via any such conection is "push" Aug 27 18:34:43 unless you use "out of band" signalling like e.g. SMS Aug 27 18:35:05 in browsers they are commonly implemented as just persistent HTTP connections Aug 27 18:35:23 which as well need keep-alive Aug 27 18:35:50 or otherwise NAT session will time out and your persistent HTTP connection is moot Aug 27 18:36:43 this has gone way off topic :) Aug 27 18:36:45 IRC protocol is perfectly meeting all the definitions of a push service Aug 27 18:37:15 it's not if irc is push or not Aug 27 18:37:29 for instance on my android device I don't have IRC client open at all times Aug 27 18:38:07 yeah, so you use mail based "push" service that notifies you that somebody on IRC has highlighted your nick Aug 27 18:38:16 I use notify my android which has a very small service that receives push notifications from various sources Aug 27 18:38:48 or maybe not mail based by´ut any other polling/pulling protocol Aug 27 18:38:51 if I used the mail client I would get those notifications every time minutes which is when the mail client connects to the server Aug 27 18:39:03 s/by'/b/ Aug 27 18:39:11 s/by´/b/ Aug 27 18:39:11 DocScrutinizer05 meant: or maybe not mail based but any other polling/pulling protocol Aug 27 18:39:20 using email in itself is not really a problem Aug 27 18:39:40 but it does seem like overkill to me Aug 27 18:39:44 coming from the android world Aug 27 18:39:58 specially if you are popular :p Aug 27 18:40:11 well, does you CLIENT support any other push service than mail? Aug 27 18:40:52 and particularly, more lightweight than IRC protocol already is Aug 27 18:40:55 you mean my IRC client ? Aug 27 18:41:00 yes Aug 27 18:42:02 or your whole client side OS Aug 27 18:42:22 android and iOS have push service Aug 27 18:42:28 some from google/apple directly Aug 27 18:42:34 you need to use *some* protocil to pull the supposedly pushed notification Aug 27 18:42:38 and some from third parties like notify my android Aug 27 18:42:49 I have no idea about maemo Aug 27 18:42:57 and that's what I orginially set out for Aug 27 18:43:53 maemo doesn't support any "push" protocols except for Nokia mail afaik, and of course SMS Aug 27 18:44:27 and MS Exchange ;) Aug 27 18:44:55 so the best bet is to use mails Aug 27 18:44:59 again, for any "push" service the initiative has to come from your client, which needs to *poll* the "push"-service Aug 27 18:45:32 something like https://github.com/bgirard/znc-cmd-notify Aug 27 18:45:43 IRC itself is a almost perfect protocol for that Aug 27 18:45:45 to just send out an email when something happens that you care Aug 27 18:46:26 it's probably more lightweight than POP3 or IMAP Aug 27 18:48:01 so, instead of using for example POP3 to poll your mail every 10 minutes to learn about any "push" event, you as well can start your IRC client every 10 minutes and pull new stuff from ZNC directly Aug 27 18:49:07 sorry, I'm busy with other topics. cya Aug 27 18:49:19 thanks Aug 27 19:05:46 DocScrutinizer05: fwiw, we already theorized the mobile irc bouncer, didn't we Aug 27 19:06:06 notify the bouncer on screen blank to stop sending stuff except in case of nickpings Aug 27 19:06:30 send scrollback in bulk every 2 minutes Aug 27 19:07:38 so you can idle on irc for free Aug 27 19:09:47 yep Aug 27 19:10:18 and ShadowJK(?) actually already implemented something almost similar, by simply tweaking netfilters Aug 27 19:48:42 DocScrutinizer05: A BIG problem about Neo900: Nokia. Mass production? eeh... Nokia is an pattent troll, and what we are going to do, is that we are going to sell modified Nokia's.... Aug 27 19:49:29 In my opinion, we will need a good lawyer :/ Aug 27 19:51:21 Mass production is impossible, imho. Aug 27 19:56:30 lexik they dont care for the n900 Aug 27 19:56:40 dafaq, we're not selling anything Nokia related Aug 27 19:56:50 heck, they mass produce it Aug 27 19:56:58 you then install the os on it, and get the case Aug 27 19:57:23 it could be a bit of a problem if it came with fremantle already Aug 27 19:57:35 which it won't Aug 27 19:59:10 we're also not infringing any patents Nokia could troll us Aug 27 20:00:06 Nokia *could* try to sue the hongkong sellers of the space cases Aug 27 20:00:57 However we will have to develop special edition of fremantle for Neo... Aug 27 20:00:58 since at least the white and golden ones are knockoffs for sure Aug 27 20:01:09 Neo900? whats that? Aug 27 20:01:15 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 20:01:21 ~neo900 Aug 27 20:01:21 hmm... neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 20:01:29 good :) Aug 27 20:01:49 lexik: for the 1000th time: fremantle is FOSS plus a few blobs the community may redistribute freely Aug 27 20:02:39 hmm interesting... Aug 27 20:02:46 and it's not GolDeliCo working on fremantle neo port, it's the community Aug 27 20:03:08 i know that fact.. but next CSSU must be compatible with both devices Aug 27 20:03:14 n900 and neo900 Aug 27 20:03:19 GolDeliCo doesn't do software, we don't even have the manpower for that Aug 27 20:04:18 lexik: please gimme a break, I can't take more of your nagging Aug 27 20:04:20 WE (aka the Maemo Community) will have to delop SW for it, i know :) ;) Aug 27 20:05:00 speaking of that, i'm gonna chunk 55 on an used n900 Aug 27 20:05:07 hopefully i do cool stuff with the usb ._. Aug 27 20:05:22 this time it'll be soldered Aug 27 20:06:04 FWIW I'm just chatting with FatPhil in other channel. He#s ex-Nokia kernel developer helping to port fremantle to the new platform Aug 27 20:06:25 saw him on tmo, cool :) Aug 27 20:08:44 RiD: dont talk me about usb :D tommorow im going to try repair mine "_" Aug 27 20:09:12 how broken is yours? :P Aug 27 20:09:23 mine had the pads all good, but then the idiot who tried to repair it ruined the pads Aug 27 20:09:31 so now only doing some alternative wiring Aug 27 20:09:37 like oh2btg's fix Aug 27 20:09:43 pads on board are okay... Aug 27 20:09:53 so i will try to "just solder it" Aug 27 20:10:00 ah good luck, wish mine was like that Aug 27 20:10:50 Also i have 20 microusb's from dx.com, if someone from Czech or Slovakia wants some, i can give it him for free :D Aug 27 20:11:05 argh.. *19 microusb's Aug 27 20:11:11 i guess it'll be 15 Aug 27 20:11:16 since you'll ruin quite a few Aug 27 20:11:17 * RiD runs Aug 27 20:11:21 :P Aug 27 20:11:56 I hope it'll be 19 :P Aug 27 20:21:39 so, what's the best option to keep those usb micro critters in place after some times use? epoxy? Aug 27 20:21:55 no Aug 27 20:22:00 ~usb Aug 27 20:22:01 methinks usb is Unusable Serial Bus. Useless Serial Bus. Ugly Stupid Bus Aug 27 20:22:05 ~microusb Aug 27 20:22:11 useless bot Aug 27 20:22:32 ~usbmicro Aug 27 20:23:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920&highlight=fix+usb Aug 27 20:23:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 is better Aug 27 20:23:13 follow any of the soldering down guides Aug 27 20:32:03 ~usbfix Aug 27 20:32:04 usbfix is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Aug 27 20:32:55 ~listkeys usb Aug 27 20:32:57 Factoid search of 'usb' by key (17 of 46): 2.4.18 usbnet ;; between the husbandryman and the historian ;; musb ;; new usbdnet ;; pam_usb ;; rdiff-backup-usbstorage ;; uk usb keyboards ;; uk usb keyoards ;; usb ;; usb backport ;; usb cdburner ;; usb howto ;; usb master ;; usb mice ;; usb mouse ;; usb patch ;; usb-brush. Aug 27 20:33:15 ~forget between the husbandryman and the historian Aug 27 20:33:16 i forgot between the husbandryman and the historian, DocScrutinizer05 Aug 27 20:33:43 ~forget uk usb keyoards Aug 27 20:33:43 DocScrutinizer05: i forgot uk usb keyoards Aug 27 20:35:08 ok cool! thansk for the info Aug 27 20:35:20 yw Aug 27 20:36:32 DocScrutinizer05 infobot is your pet, isn't it? Aug 27 20:36:38 you take care of it everyday Aug 27 20:36:44 yoh Aug 27 20:37:04 ~botsnack Aug 27 20:37:05 DocScrutinizer05: :) Aug 27 20:38:00 look, I got so used to using it that I pestered TimRiker too often when it been gone or buggy. So he gave me +o Aug 27 20:38:51 for some weird reason he thought I wouldn't abuse that ;-P Aug 27 20:39:35 downside: I can't tell her ~die anymore Aug 27 20:39:49 she takes that too literally Aug 27 20:39:58 oh it's a she Aug 27 20:39:59 ;-P Aug 27 20:40:04 ~gender Aug 27 20:40:05 I'm hermaphroditic Aug 27 20:40:10 ouch Aug 27 20:40:18 well but i can Aug 27 20:40:20 ~die Aug 27 20:40:21 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. Aug 27 20:40:42 ~attack RiD Aug 27 20:40:43 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing RiD Aug 27 20:40:51 "she's" Aug 27 20:41:05 it's time Aug 27 20:41:08 ~rape RiD Aug 27 20:41:08 * RiD runs for his life Aug 27 20:41:09 * infobot takes RiD behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams Aug 27 20:41:21 ok that's just horrible Aug 27 20:41:27 raped by a hermaphorditi Aug 27 20:41:30 typos Aug 27 20:42:06 gotta get RiD (lol) of the bad habit of pressing enter too early Aug 27 20:42:39 waves to DocScrutinizer05 and wishes a nice tasty dinner Aug 27 21:11:06 A month into android mod development made me miss the days of maemo Aug 27 21:22:36 MohammadAG what did you do Aug 27 21:22:50 A lot of stuff Aug 27 21:22:59 i do a lot of stuff too Aug 27 21:23:11 But I hit a brick wall that reminded me of maemo's awesome devs Aug 27 21:23:23 The likes of DocScrutinizer05 and jacekowski Aug 27 21:23:33 HUH? Aug 27 21:23:56 hi moh Aug 27 21:24:00 welcome back Aug 27 21:24:01 I feel like the Android community doesnt have one single qualified engineer Aug 27 21:24:03 i salute you Aug 27 21:24:10 Hi DocScrutinizer05 Aug 27 21:24:18 RiD heard of Xposed? Aug 27 21:24:18 i am a qualified engineer, though only in my mind Aug 27 21:24:19 MohammadAG: see Aug 27 21:24:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 21:24:28 oh yeah, i heard it sucks Aug 27 21:24:37 joke, i just googled it and i'm reading the xda topic Aug 27 21:25:23 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how a brick wall can remind MohammadAG about him Aug 27 21:25:44 I know i'm stubborn, but.... Aug 27 21:25:46 sounds interesting Aug 27 21:25:46 DocScrutinizer05 I remember you mentioned eMMC hardware locks once Aug 27 21:26:21 RiD it is, android modding only got interesting after it Aug 27 21:26:40 my tablet doesnt have much support anyways Aug 27 21:26:42 Its like the only sane project related to mods on android Aug 27 21:26:57 Much support for what? Aug 27 21:27:24 The framework runs on any 4.0.3+ device Aug 27 21:27:30 well, there's obviously more roms and tweaks and etc for a nexus device Aug 27 21:27:44 Thats where you come in Aug 27 21:27:52 eh me? Aug 27 21:27:57 Yeah you Aug 27 21:28:01 what did i do Aug 27 21:28:02 i'm innocent Aug 27 21:28:03 You make the mods Aug 27 21:28:08 HAH good grief Aug 27 21:28:13 though i'd love to have a go at the theming Aug 27 21:28:28 The S4 had no mods besides one Aug 27 21:28:57 I kind of made 5-8 mods Aug 27 21:29:14 One of which I'm very proud of Aug 27 21:29:23 i'm checking your profile now Aug 27 21:29:48 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/myXposedModules Aug 27 21:30:01 what's the one you are proud of? Aug 27 21:30:16 sorry i mean very proud* Aug 27 21:30:43 https://github.com/MohammadAG/Xposed-SView-Poweramp/blob/master/src/com/mohammadag/sviewpowerampmetadata/SViewPowerampMetadata.java Aug 27 21:31:14 woah, that cover Aug 27 21:31:18 Disclaimer: I didn't know java when I started on Android Aug 27 21:31:24 sounds really cool, any pic of it running? Aug 27 21:31:50 SViewPowerampMetadata? Aug 27 21:31:57 nvm i found one Aug 27 21:32:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tt0pG40d1w&feature=youtube_gdata_player Aug 27 21:32:07 * DocScrutinizer05 unknots his tongue Aug 27 21:32:15 Unlisted videos Aug 27 21:32:30 Err video, till I get a proper camera Aug 27 21:32:39 don't you have your N900? Aug 27 21:32:50 I do, but no tripod for that Aug 27 21:32:58 there's no need for a tripod Aug 27 21:33:04 i know black magic Aug 27 21:33:17 There is when you're making a promotional video for google play :p Aug 27 21:33:33 get a glass table and put the phone lying on it, with camera open Aug 27 21:33:42 Reviewers on Android eat you alive Aug 27 21:33:42 (yeah, that glass better be transparent) Aug 27 21:33:56 i know right.. they rate apps 1 star because something doesn't work when it's their own fault Aug 27 21:34:03 Yeah Aug 27 21:34:20 and i'm stuck with brazillian reviews (damn you localization, i'm portuguese) Aug 27 21:34:22 Someone rated my app 3 stars and said "I haven't used this yet" Aug 27 21:34:31 That kind of annoyed me a bit too much Aug 27 21:34:44 they're not exactly the brightest reviewers. "too slow on my *insert horribly slow phone*" Aug 27 21:35:01 That's why I supoort 4.0+ Aug 27 21:35:10 oh yeah, death to anything below 4.0 Aug 27 21:35:17 Indeed Aug 27 21:35:19 amazing how it even survived Aug 27 21:35:38 Whats more amazing is how android succeeded before 4.0 Aug 27 21:35:40 crap... google play knows what music i like Aug 27 21:36:02 i didnt download a single thing, but "Popular with Crystal Method listeners", how the hell does google know i like the crystal method Aug 27 21:36:11 Tbh at this point, I'm expecting Google Now to tell me when it's time to take a shit Aug 27 21:36:12 yes, that's what i mean MohammadAG Aug 27 21:36:30 it recommended me a fluke album... i have it already Aug 27 21:36:33 popular with crystal meth Aug 27 21:36:37 NO Aug 27 21:36:40 method! Aug 27 21:36:50 google play forgot the "The" though Aug 27 21:36:53 o/ ShadowJK Aug 27 21:36:56 crystal meth is a lot more popular than the crystal method Aug 27 21:37:12 i'll just sit in a corner and cry Aug 27 21:37:15 hallo Aug 27 21:37:17 booo my N900 seems to have developed a stuck green pixel Aug 27 21:37:25 LjL-Alps: toggle it Aug 27 21:37:28 toggle it like fuck Aug 27 21:37:30 during using SHR, doubt it can cause that though Aug 27 21:37:36 RiD done any play store apps? Aug 27 21:37:37 MohammadAG you got some fancy clean icons on your apps! ++ Aug 27 21:37:45 kerio: is there something handy to achieve taht? Aug 27 21:37:54 idk if there's something Aug 27 21:37:56 check the repos Aug 27 21:37:59 nah i'm not a developer Aug 27 21:38:00 LjL-Alps: able to access SIM or modem in your SHR install? Aug 27 21:38:03 RiD that's cause I suck at designing so I use clipart from ADT :P Aug 27 21:38:05 i guess the only thing i could do is themes Aug 27 21:38:18 and i'm actually tempted to do one Aug 27 21:38:24 LjL-Alps: that#s most likely a bad bit in video RAM Aug 27 21:38:28 with xposed? Aug 27 21:38:29 i've seen some that aren't exactly good looking (not wanting to offend creators) yet they sell quite well Aug 27 21:38:38 only thing that could _cause_ it is OC Aug 27 21:38:54 Tbh I only consider two apps successful Aug 27 21:39:09 Sicelo, i'm afraid i haven't gotten there yet (SIM isn't in the phone). i've spent the past hours reinstalling it several times, sometimes -core sometimes -staging Aug 27 21:39:15 My usb mass storage app at 75k downloads and the file beam one Aug 27 21:39:23 DocScrutinizer05: whoops. i do overclock to 850... no idea what sort of clock SHR uses, though Aug 27 21:39:30 speaking of that usb mass storage app Aug 27 21:39:34 100 points for nokia for making the N9 support Android's protocol Aug 27 21:39:41 its compatible with my tablet yet my tablet already supports it natively Aug 27 21:39:43 SHR doesn't use clocks I think Aug 27 21:39:48 DocScrutinizer05 so, remember the ro mmc lock? Aug 27 21:40:00 it most likely will run the device as recommended Aug 27 21:40:09 RiD Samsung? Aug 27 21:40:13 DocScrutinizer05: i see Aug 27 21:40:15 MohammadAG: not really, only for NAND Aug 27 21:40:17 Galaxy Tab 10.1, 3G. (GT-P7500) Aug 27 21:40:29 so i guess the wi-fi only (7510) can also install it Aug 27 21:40:32 DocScrutinizer05 same thing? Aug 27 21:40:38 well, kinda Aug 27 21:40:49 The hardware enforces a lock set somewherr by kernel or bootloader Aug 27 21:40:55 anyway, i still can't wifi in my home Aug 27 21:40:58 on NAND there is such thing like write-protect bits Aug 27 21:41:02 And only a power cycle allows an unlock Aug 27 21:41:09 for NAND erase pages usually Aug 27 21:41:33 RiD it should support most samsung devices that arent nexii :) Aug 27 21:41:36 on N9 it seems NAND has even read lock Aug 27 21:41:42 If you have a flash try adjustable torch Aug 27 21:41:52 and allegedly the locks can't get reset Aug 27 21:41:53 DocScrutinizer05 I think my S4 has that too Aug 27 21:41:56 yeah but the tablet already natively supports it, so there's no need Aug 27 21:42:07 oh wait no Aug 27 21:42:09 which SoC? Aug 27 21:42:11 Its like I asked for aegis's cousin Aug 27 21:42:12 i've been misreading it all time Aug 27 21:42:14 i'm dumb, sorry Aug 27 21:42:26 ARM's TrustZone Aug 27 21:42:31 DocScrutinizer05 exynos Aug 27 21:42:33 :nod: Aug 27 21:42:43 But still, makes no sense. Galaxy Tab 10.1 does not support microSD Aug 27 21:42:48 i'm nagging you Aug 27 21:42:50 Exynos 5140 I think Aug 27 21:43:00 DocScrutinizer05: neo900 feature request: aegis Aug 27 21:43:00 RiD whaa? Aug 27 21:43:08 I dunno exynos by heart but when it's trustzone then yes, likely same shit as in N9 Aug 27 21:43:15 DocScrutinizer05 worse Aug 27 21:43:21 ~shoot kerio Aug 27 21:43:22 * infobot shoots kerio in the foot with a glue gun! Aug 27 21:43:26 "this will not work with your internal memory due to hardware and software limitations." Aug 27 21:43:29 There's this thing in android called screen mirroring Aug 27 21:43:30 we will never attract developers without strong drm capabilities! Aug 27 21:43:32 It uses miracast Aug 27 21:43:35 but on the tablet, there's nothing but internal memory Aug 27 21:43:38 see what i mean? Aug 27 21:43:39 * RiD runs Aug 27 21:43:43 Samsung decided to make their own implementation Aug 27 21:43:59 RiD then /sdcard is a separate partition :) Aug 27 21:44:10 Their implementation uses HDCP Aug 27 21:44:11 owat Aug 27 21:44:15 then i guess i could use that :O Aug 27 21:44:22 im gonna try it right now Aug 27 21:44:26 i hate MTP to its heart Aug 27 21:44:28 horrible piece of bleep Aug 27 21:44:37 Oh wait wait wait Aug 27 21:44:40 ~kill kerio Aug 27 21:44:40 RiD Aug 27 21:44:41 * infobot shoots a inverse anti-quark gun at kerio Aug 27 21:44:43 DiR Aug 27 21:44:46 I thought you said it worked Aug 27 21:44:51 nonono Aug 27 21:44:55 i'll try it anyways Aug 27 21:45:02 It wont work unless your /sdcard is a separate partition Aug 27 21:45:07 if it doesnt work i'll give you 1 star don't worry Aug 27 21:45:13 uhehueuheuhehu Aug 27 21:45:37 So DocScrutinizer05, their libhdcp2.so tries to open TrustZone, and fails if you have ever flashed the device with any other kernel Aug 27 21:45:45 neat Aug 27 21:45:50 so you lose screen mirroring permanently? Aug 27 21:45:55 niiiiice Aug 27 21:45:59 RiD :@ Aug 27 21:46:07 sweet Aug 27 21:46:14 1 star, and review will say: i haven't even opened it yet Aug 27 21:46:20 what's the big deal though? can't you just add a fake trustzone? Aug 27 21:46:25 kerio well, on the Note 2 for example, you can reset the flash count and go back to stock so it works again Aug 27 21:46:34 anyways, what happened to your 900? Aug 27 21:46:43 And here's what reminded of DocScrutinizer05 Aug 27 21:47:08 On the S4, the partition that stores the flash count has write protection on the hardware level Aug 27 21:47:14 my famous statement "aegis is a spawn of hell" ? Aug 27 21:47:18 And what sets the write protect flag Aug 27 21:47:33 Samsung's very own NOLO Aug 27 21:47:41 Their own signed bootloader Aug 27 21:47:46 sure Aug 27 21:47:46 but samsung is so open Aug 27 21:47:50 android is so open Aug 27 21:48:02 it's linux, and linux is free Aug 27 21:48:08 LOL Aug 27 21:48:09 The only way to reset this write protection is to cut off power to the eMMC Aug 27 21:48:32 Idk if thats even possible Aug 27 21:48:46 kerio stock aosp is open :p Aug 27 21:48:51 MohammadAG: sup Aug 27 21:48:51 ooohwait, SD cards are S because they have some shit added that's not found in MMC Aug 27 21:48:53 anything is possible with a steady hand and a soldering gun Aug 27 21:48:57 Secure Aug 27 21:49:00 Samsung was awesome up until the S2 Aug 27 21:49:09 Then they gave into money and appleism Aug 27 21:49:13 The Note2 is pretty awesome Aug 27 21:49:15 they suck at being apple, though Aug 27 21:49:19 teotwaki_ heyy Aug 27 21:49:25 hell, even apple sucks at being apple lately Aug 27 21:49:31 I never heard of anything using the "Secure" in SD Aug 27 21:49:41 Nothing much, just stabbing myself at how I bought a 100 buck adapter for nothing Aug 27 21:49:42 DocScrutinizer05: windows phone used the "secure" in SD Aug 27 21:49:45 but it might well be what you're running into here Aug 27 21:49:58 and everyone went crazy because nobody had any idea of what was going on Aug 27 21:50:01 kerio apple still allows you to do the stuff you always did while jailbroken Aug 27 21:50:07 ok going to try it now Aug 27 21:50:09 get ready for 1 star Aug 27 21:50:16 teotwaki_ it is Aug 27 21:50:16 "doesn't work it requires cable" Aug 27 21:50:29 I regret trading it for the S4 Aug 27 21:50:32 which application is this? Aug 27 21:50:51 huh? Aug 27 21:50:55 RiD I swear I'll be under your bed if I get that 1 star Aug 27 21:50:58 MohammadAG's Aug 27 21:51:25 oooh hi teotwaki_ Aug 27 21:51:32 S3C Gadget not available in your kernel! Application disabled Aug 27 21:51:35 sorry, that's 1 star from me Aug 27 21:51:44 I suffer brain overload Aug 27 21:51:57 But there's hope, there's a leaked engineering bootloader that doesnt set the write protect flag Aug 27 21:52:04 I've dumped half the haproxy and whole nginx documentations in my head Aug 27 21:52:22 lol Aug 27 21:52:35 RiD: "instructions unclear, penis stuck in SIM slot" Aug 27 21:52:44 what XD Aug 27 21:52:55 teotwaki_: is there any reason why there's no good, non-russian documentation for nginx anywhere? Aug 27 21:52:56 that has got to be small Aug 27 21:53:05 teotwaki_: seen latest madness? Aug 27 21:53:06 RiD: nope, that's why it got stuck Aug 27 21:53:09 DocScrutinizer05: nope? Aug 27 21:53:14 Neo900 Aug 27 21:53:19 :D Aug 27 21:53:23 i reviewed it Aug 27 21:53:24 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Aug 27 21:53:24 kerio: source code is the best documentation. Aug 27 21:53:28 oic Aug 27 21:53:30 you got a little bit more of the star now Aug 27 21:54:22 Btw about that Aug 27 21:54:23 How are you planning to get funding? Aug 27 21:54:24 RiD: link to the review Aug 27 21:54:44 MohammadAG: unclear yet, we might start a fundraiser Aug 27 21:55:02 DocScrutinizer05: funky Aug 27 21:55:06 DocScrutinizer05: let's call it the ubuntu neo900 Aug 27 21:55:11 and run a kickstarter Aug 27 21:55:14 for now we want to see if any chances for this thing to fly Aug 27 21:55:23 Awww thanks RiD Aug 27 21:55:36 DocScrutinizer05: dual core or not? Aug 27 21:55:44 kerio the edgy 9000 Aug 27 21:55:46 ********************************* take a few of these stars Aug 27 21:55:55 teotwaki_: DM3730 Aug 27 21:55:57 * kerio grabs *** Aug 27 21:55:59 its not the truth Aug 27 21:56:29 teotwaki_: not aimed at high end bleeding edge but at N900 compatibility Aug 27 21:57:03 How's the sailfish device going Aug 27 21:57:11 *shrug* Aug 27 21:57:13 price range? (ballpark) Aug 27 21:57:17 DocScrutinizer05 ask Ballmer for funding Aug 27 21:57:19 700 Aug 27 21:57:23 700? Aug 27 21:57:36 Yens I hope :p Aug 27 21:57:48 I do realise that you don't have economy of scale and stuff Aug 27 21:57:49 sure, we're not Samsung, we can't get the prices they get Aug 27 21:58:07 Samsung doesnt get prices Aug 27 21:58:10 but the original n900 went for 200euro less Aug 27 21:58:13 They make their own cpu Aug 27 21:58:20 Their own memory Aug 27 21:58:22 ew i should change my google+ icon Aug 27 21:58:24 s/prices/offers/ Aug 27 21:58:24 DocScrutinizer05 meant: sure, we're not Samsung, we can't get the offers they get Aug 27 21:58:41 Their own display Aug 27 21:58:50 The camera's a Sony though Aug 27 21:59:05 let's make our own cpu, memory and display! Aug 27 21:59:09 that's cheap right Aug 27 21:59:23 oh right Aug 27 21:59:24 DocScrutinizer05: good luck. Hope it works out. Aug 27 21:59:29 i know how google knows what music i like... duh Aug 27 21:59:30 youtube... duh Aug 27 21:59:32 we'll see Aug 27 21:59:38 teotwaki_: will you buy like 50 of those? Aug 27 21:59:44 Nokia's marketing is getting better btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vR4LeL0yzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player Aug 27 21:59:47 kerio: the Neo900? Aug 27 21:59:53 yeah Aug 27 22:00:02 kerio: doubt I'll buy even one, honestly. Aug 27 22:00:03 They kind of dissed every other manufacturer Aug 27 22:00:05 :( Aug 27 22:00:14 my n900 still works well Aug 27 22:00:17 ok i thank google already Aug 27 22:00:25 it helped me find an awesome artist Aug 27 22:00:34 yeah but the neo900 is going to be actually viable Aug 27 22:00:39 like, it will have ram Aug 27 22:00:44 and it'll work Aug 27 22:00:57 1GB of RAM? Aug 27 22:01:01 woah i fell in love with celldweller already Aug 27 22:01:09 32gb of ram! Aug 27 22:01:14 OMAP3 has hard limit at 512MB Aug 27 22:01:17 I still like how a stock N900 multitasks better than a stock S3 Aug 27 22:01:24 DocScrutinizer05: really? :o Aug 27 22:01:27 so we can't get to 1gb? Aug 27 22:01:32 nope Aug 27 22:01:39 256mb on n900 vs 1gb on s3 Aug 27 22:01:41 that sucks Aug 27 22:01:46 MohammadAG you have not yet answered my question (or i didn't read it), do you still own a n900 Aug 27 22:01:51 can we get some really, really fast swap? Aug 27 22:01:52 also, some s3 have 2gb Aug 27 22:01:55 depends on the variant you get Aug 27 22:01:57 RiD yes Aug 27 22:02:02 nice, is it all broken Aug 27 22:02:04 kerio: maybe Aug 27 22:02:12 Weird Aug 27 22:02:21 I guess Moore's law doesn't apply to Harmattan Aug 27 22:02:33 Nope, still in good condition Aug 27 22:02:40 2009: 256MB RAM. 2014: 512MB RAM. Aug 27 22:02:45 RiD 9505 yes Aug 27 22:02:55 Err 9305 Aug 27 22:03:09 teotwaki harmattan? Aug 27 22:03:12 that'd be 1GB Aug 27 22:03:14 teotwaki_: I doubt any OMAP3 will get sold in 2014 Aug 27 22:03:14 Meanwhile, fast forward to september 4th Aug 27 22:03:32 Samsung will unveil the new Note 3 with 3GBs of RAM Aug 27 22:03:33 do you still use your n900? Aug 27 22:03:34 TI will start to roll out omap5 in 2014 Aug 27 22:03:40 And it'll still lag Aug 27 22:03:43 Note 4 will have 4 GB Aug 27 22:03:47 Note 5 will have... 5 Aug 27 22:03:47 or they already did Aug 27 22:03:47 RiD not much tbh Aug 27 22:04:02 i understand, i guess you prefer to browse the web on your s3 Aug 27 22:04:03 by a far margin Aug 27 22:04:07 When it comes to actual usage I still use my N9 a lot Aug 27 22:04:17 RiD S4 Aug 27 22:04:17 I use a Wiko... Aug 27 22:04:19 oh s4 Aug 27 22:04:25 The S3 was an abomination Aug 27 22:04:29 how so? Aug 27 22:04:36 Slow as fuck Aug 27 22:04:38 dafuq Aug 27 22:04:40 slow? Aug 27 22:04:43 Yes Aug 27 22:04:44 1GB of RAM, dual core 1Ghz CPU, 5inch screen... 200euros. Aug 27 22:04:50 1GB of ram wasnt enough Aug 27 22:05:06 At startup you'd have about 200mbs of free ram Aug 27 22:05:09 now what? Aug 27 22:05:13 Plus 200 reserved for hardware Aug 27 22:05:16 ah touchwiz Aug 27 22:05:26 So you get 600+ /800 used Aug 27 22:05:37 The 200 are reserved by kernel Aug 27 22:06:00 With the S4 they did the same mistake, albeit its not that bad here Aug 27 22:06:23 It should've had 3GBs so it doesn't lock up when it finds my eyes Aug 27 22:06:36 haha Aug 27 22:06:46 Tbh, I think my next device will be a Sony Aug 27 22:06:58 they have been sounding quite interesting lately Aug 27 22:07:01 a friend of mine got an xperia Z Aug 27 22:07:03 and they're not ugly as hell unlike samsung Aug 27 22:07:08 Its really awesome Aug 27 22:07:13 then new version, 1.2 Ghz quad core, 1GB of RAM, 5" screen... 205 euros... Aug 27 22:07:21 white samsung s3 looks like some kids toy Aug 27 22:07:22 Much faster than the S4 Aug 27 22:08:09 http://fr.wikomobile.com/mobile.php?t=41&telephone-portable=WIKO-STAIRWAY Aug 27 22:09:17 a va a va Aug 27 22:10:41 the whole company switched to wiko Aug 27 22:10:55 wiggly wiko Aug 27 22:11:09 RiD: you bore me. Your brain seems wiggly. Aug 27 22:11:16 it is Aug 27 22:12:02 MohammadAG: the waterproofing is nice. Aug 27 22:16:02 Hurrian everything about it is nice Aug 27 22:16:13 I'd trade my S4 for one any day Aug 27 22:16:31 Or the rumored Z1 Aug 27 22:16:51 MohammadAG: only complaint is the non-removable battery but meh Aug 27 22:17:18 The only time I remove my battery is when thr phone gets stuck or too hot Aug 27 22:17:42 I have an external portable charger Aug 27 22:17:53 I'm waiting for the Honami. Aug 27 22:18:07 I'm considering it Aug 27 22:18:20 Although the S4 was a setback in terms of cash Aug 27 22:18:22 how do you replace non-removable battery? Aug 27 22:18:32 been due for an upgrade now, and get the Z1 Aug 27 22:18:58 hmm, nvm Aug 27 22:19:32 sorry, I was thinking about the neo900 Aug 27 22:22:55 what would you do if the phone gets stuck but you cant take the battery out Aug 27 22:24:53 hopefully you can hard reset by holding down a button somewhere? Aug 27 22:25:25 what if you can't Aug 27 22:25:30 WHAT IF Aug 27 22:25:31 THE MATRIX WAS REAL Aug 27 22:25:39 hmm, how does that work if it is all glass? Aug 27 22:26:58 captcha "hold your horses" well that's new Aug 27 22:44:28 DocScrutinizer05: for a sample N900 for the Neo900, here's a device donation: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1369897#post1369897 Aug 27 22:49:22 handled Aug 27 22:49:24 thanks Aug 27 22:49:41 ;) Aug 27 22:54:25 he should have had donated to me Aug 27 22:54:50 regarding community donations to HiFo for this project: sure, why not. My concerns were: where does it start, where does it end? We might be able to fund the prototypes, but are those donations meant for that? Aug 27 22:56:44 GolDeliCo won't accept donations from HiFo for the prototypes, I guess Aug 27 22:57:25 re yesterdays discussion... Aug 27 22:57:44 when any community member wants to donate to Neo900, we will come up with a way to donate directly to the involved guys Aug 27 22:57:51 buy one and pay it from HiFo donations Aug 27 22:58:10 that's a different thing Aug 27 22:58:27 right Aug 27 22:58:55 we're maemo community, we basically 'own' the N900 Aug 27 22:59:12 i really love this Aug 27 22:59:15 Nokia used to hand out devices to devels Aug 27 22:59:30 always been duty of council Aug 27 22:59:55 GeneralAntilles send several to me :-) Aug 27 23:00:07 oh, BTW, there's no real place for a council in an e.V.... Aug 27 23:00:23 :nod: Aug 27 23:00:44 except when you say so in your vereins-statuten Aug 27 23:01:32 that's why I wonder about different voting rights for active members and "irregular" ones in the webpad Aug 27 23:02:21 what would you like to see in that regard? Aug 27 23:03:33 I'd think that's pretty hard to tell, since it's about voting in Verein (Vorstand etc), _not_ for voting for council that won't change (ever) Aug 27 23:03:38 ;-) Aug 27 23:04:31 so no official status for council in the e.V.? Aug 27 23:04:59 maybe for a e.V that really only manages the cash for community resp council, it's sane to say that only a very limited number of members can vote Aug 27 23:05:35 counilors would have same voting rights as every "irregular member" (community with 3-month-account, dropped karma Aug 27 23:05:55 official status of council in e.V is "council represents the intentions of community which the e.V. is handling the cash for" Aug 27 23:07:22 I don't think council should have more power than other regular full members of e.V. I however have a hard time figuring that some australian based garage user would vote the Vorstand of a german e.V. Aug 27 23:09:18 not exactly simple stuff to get it right Aug 27 23:09:53 We *need* a "Mitgliederversammlung" as an entity. Those can be "active/regular members" (e.g. council) or whole community Aug 27 23:10:04 it's one thing to found a e.V. - it's a whole different thing to entangle and link it to maemo community Aug 27 23:10:18 right... Aug 27 23:10:33 that's our task right now... Aug 27 23:10:54 but honestly, I have little to no remaining capacity in my brain to handle that right now Aug 27 23:11:29 sure, I thought so, just share your basic ideas about it please Aug 27 23:11:41 I'm available as one of the foundation members, but not much more than that Aug 27 23:12:02 I also didn't manage to look at that pad yet Aug 27 23:12:50 and I'm trying to get out for a dinner (6h ago) resp now at least a beer, since some time Aug 27 23:13:01 I just don't wanna see you whine about our new constitution after everything is done ;) Aug 27 23:13:42 well, isn't that the usual pilitical method to get new laws installed? Aug 27 23:14:11 might be, I prefer it the smooth way Aug 27 23:14:14 bring them up at 17:45, in the last meeting before summer holiday Aug 27 23:14:46 apropos meeting, we need one for board Aug 27 23:14:59 luckily i'm not board Aug 27 23:15:18 enjoy your beer, you deserved it! Aug 27 23:15:29 hah! Aug 27 23:16:17 honestly! Aug 27 23:16:25 I know why I'm unemployed - nobody could pay me for that stuff that I do Aug 27 23:16:39 exactly! Aug 27 23:16:54 DocScrutinizer05: btw, are you just running off of money reserves? Aug 27 23:18:32 kinda Aug 27 23:18:48 D: Aug 27 23:18:49 though as treasurer, I don't wanna spend our donations on the Neo900, I'm tempted to donate to your paypal for that project Aug 27 23:19:06 Win7Mac: do eeet Aug 27 23:19:25 but I guess you got a bigger idea about that... Aug 27 23:19:37 DocScrutinizer05: marry an old billionaire widow Aug 27 23:19:58 kill her discretely Aug 27 23:20:01 fund maemo Aug 27 23:20:51 ;) Aug 27 23:20:53 not yet (bigger idea) Aug 27 23:21:20 steal all the ubuntu edge money Aug 27 23:21:23 kickstarter and a little press-campaign Aug 27 23:21:47 right now is the perfect time since ubuntu Edge failed Aug 27 23:21:59 "we're cheaper and more open" Aug 27 23:22:16 for now I'll happily accept donations to my "maemo" paypal, which has a field "message" to put in a unambiguous order like "use for Neo900" Aug 27 23:22:39 nixie pixel will freak out Aug 27 23:23:02 anything that comes in without such unambiguous subject will get used for maemo.org support Aug 27 23:23:15 aka "on begalf of HiFo" Aug 27 23:23:26 behalf even Aug 27 23:24:16 maemo.org support is what i see as primary target for HiFo-donations Aug 27 23:24:23 right? Aug 27 23:24:38 "the infra" Aug 27 23:24:41 we're thinking already about kickstarter or sth for prototypes, not buying any actual hardware but a "livestream from the developer's desk" Aug 27 23:25:22 Win7Mac: right Aug 27 23:25:39 right way to go, IMHO Aug 27 23:25:59 with Neo900... that name is just gorgious Aug 27 23:26:34 well, first mail from Nikolaus with that idea is ~12h old now Aug 27 23:27:31 until we get sth like that done: fundraiser (roof on fire) -> put "Neo900" into message Aug 27 23:27:58 away fro a beer now. For real Aug 27 23:28:06 no really I mean it Aug 27 23:28:17 I'm almost gone Aug 27 23:28:35 just... do it! Aug 27 23:28:40 yeah sure Aug 27 23:29:05 I'm doing it Aug 27 23:29:14 RSN Aug 27 23:29:18 right now! Aug 27 23:29:44 nur noch schnell die welt retten Aug 27 23:29:45 lies Aug 27 23:29:49 wat Aug 27 23:29:52 1254587545 mails checken Aug 27 23:30:26 there'S a german song with those lines... Aug 27 23:31:10 DocScrutinizer05 feels like he's got the world on his shoulders... Aug 27 23:31:30 *the weight of the world Aug 27 23:32:30 * Win7Mac pondres what would we do without him? Aug 27 23:32:59 nothin Aug 27 23:33:11 ...that enter key still pressing too early Aug 27 23:33:43 just sit there, klickin the refresh-button but nothing happens... Aug 27 23:40:15 and for the Neo900 kickstarter/indiegogo (doesn't really matter) campaign you OFC get full support from HiFo (I say). We definetely should make some concentrated campaign/noise on all channels! Aug 27 23:40:31 Is there a campaign? Aug 27 23:40:43 not yet Aug 27 23:40:46 hi guys :) Aug 27 23:40:51 Hi! Aug 27 23:41:01 Ah Aug 27 23:42:35 by the way, did someone ever manage to get a real AP with airbase-ng? Aug 27 23:42:51 GA, we need to untangle what we, in future as an e.V., want to keep from actual bylaws Aug 27 23:43:05 as HiFo Aug 27 23:43:18 kerio: did anyone ever try? Aug 27 23:43:50 i don't know Aug 27 23:44:02 i don't know enough about wifi to correctly use that crap Aug 27 23:45:07 GA, and we should have a meeting soon Aug 27 23:57:06 ~seen GeneralAntilles Aug 27 23:57:10 generalantilles is currently on #maemo #harmattan. Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 16m 9s, last said: 'Ah'. Aug 27 23:57:17 Ah Aug 28 00:24:04 Win7Mac: do eeet - I deeed...;) Aug 28 00:24:16 i meant the "use all the HiFo money" Aug 28 00:24:29 no, sorry Aug 28 00:24:52 actually, we don't even have acces to it Aug 28 00:25:20 Stupid First Niagara. Aug 28 00:28:04 but honestly, HiFo donations done so far are *not* for Neo900! so much should be clear, right?! Aug 28 00:29:53 Gotta keep the infra up. Aug 28 00:30:17 HiFi can certainly do some advertising on Neo900's behalf, though. Aug 28 00:31:30 right, HiFo will for sure officially support that project but not financially. Neo900 project should have its own base on kickstarter/indiegogo Aug 28 00:32:10 if you ask me... ;) Aug 28 00:33:33 and I assume it will gather some thousand$$ for sure Aug 28 00:36:46 We only wish HiFi had the tens of Ks floating around for that. Aug 28 00:37:42 right Aug 28 00:55:17 . Aug 28 00:57:51 * Win7Mac waves gn o/ Aug 28 01:07:58 n8 Aug 28 01:08:28 had some funny time in my pub. Drunken weird chick Aug 28 01:09:02 Congratulations Aug 28 01:09:03 hehe Aug 28 01:09:14 so you think you're the only one :D Aug 28 01:09:33 night doc Aug 28 01:11:58 I left before it got too embarrassing (not for me) Aug 28 01:12:33 also the drinks are cheaper and better here at home Aug 28 01:12:48 what about girls? Aug 28 01:13:04 meh, there's ~4 billion of them Aug 28 01:13:42 Boo Aug 28 01:14:37 hi GA Aug 28 01:14:38 DocScrutinizer05: in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess? Aug 28 01:15:06 I won't tell you about who's in my house. That's private Aug 28 01:15:46 I though we're friends :( Aug 28 01:15:49 :D:D:D Aug 28 01:16:36 I can tell you though that several of those who are here wouldn't have appreciated when I brought that weird chick here :-) Aug 28 01:16:54 incl me Aug 28 01:17:31 DocScrutinizer05, did the short Maemo vacation treat you OK? Aug 28 01:17:33 freemangordon haha i laughed at in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess? Aug 28 01:18:05 well, its from -10% to something positive again Aug 28 01:18:18 -- equals + Aug 28 01:18:22 That's something. Aug 28 01:18:44 DocScrutinizer05: hmm? come on, isn't it clear I am kidding you? Aug 28 01:18:51 then again my medical doctors try to ruin my life Aug 28 01:19:01 * freemangordon has to work on his english Aug 28 01:19:16 im satesfed wit my english skels Aug 28 01:19:28 * DocScrutinizer05 has to work on his british humour Aug 28 01:19:53 DocScrutinizer05, you should tell them you're fine and go skiing. Aug 28 01:20:14 got appointments Aug 28 01:21:05 at least highly intriguing technical stuff to check out ;-) Aug 28 01:21:53 Good way to look at it. Aug 28 01:22:10 * DocScrutinizer05 always wondered how they ramp up those supraconducting magnets Aug 28 01:23:13 must be several 1000s of ampere in there Aug 28 01:23:54 do they use a little motor with a lever and a magnet at the end? Aug 28 01:24:32 "wind it up" like a spring in a clock? Aug 28 01:25:09 DocScrutinizer05, how do you mean? Aug 28 01:25:39 Probably use a massive electromagnet? Aug 28 01:26:14 when you got a ring of supraconductor, how do you create a 5000A current flowing thru it causing a several Tesla magnet field? Aug 28 01:26:39 by external magnetic field? Aug 28 01:27:01 Magic, duh. Aug 28 01:27:07 i agree with him ^ Aug 28 01:27:16 well, as soon as that external magnetic field collapses, it will eat all the energy from the supra magnet Aug 28 01:27:28 hmm, no Aug 28 01:27:29 supra supra... toyota Aug 28 01:27:54 Overrated, get yourself a BRZ or something. Aug 28 01:28:02 because have some current nducted inthe superconductor Aug 28 01:28:10 *you have Aug 28 01:28:52 GeneralAntilles ugly Aug 28 01:29:04 an external field causes not any current flux in a conductor, it's the cange in field that causes the current. When you ramp up and ramp down a field, the resulting integral in the conductor will be exactly zilch Aug 28 01:29:45 hmm, right Aug 28 01:29:53 RiD, boo. Aug 28 01:29:57 OK, CTS-V. Aug 28 01:30:09 qyou're going downhill Aug 28 01:30:17 it kinda looks weird Aug 28 01:30:19 550 HP Aug 28 01:30:33 DocScrutinizer05: going to ask wikipedia about it Aug 28 01:30:54 however spinning a small magnet millions of times around the conductor should build up an ever increasing current Aug 28 01:31:27 RiD, pick your vehicle. Aug 28 01:31:28 though if i won the lottery, i'd make the ultimate sleeper GeneralAntilles Aug 28 01:31:29 that's where "motor, lever, magnet" comes in Aug 28 01:31:39 something truly hideous that makes you think the car sucks Aug 28 01:31:39 Remake the E36 M3 Sedan? Aug 28 01:31:46 Oh Aug 28 01:31:55 A turbo V8 Gen 4 Camry. Aug 28 01:32:07 sure, but the point is that SC should keep the current/magnetic field without any external stuff changed Aug 28 01:32:25 http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Toyota-Camry-gen3.jpg Aug 28 01:32:33 hmh Aug 28 01:32:40 Gen 3 is a little tight in the engine compartment. Aug 28 01:32:48 freemangordon: that's the whole point Aug 28 01:32:52 ok Aug 28 01:32:55 you're the expert Aug 28 01:33:11 Haha Aug 28 01:33:22 Well, I don't disagree with your visual assessment. Aug 28 01:33:26 GeneralAntilles: that is why E46 is the best BMW ever produced Aug 28 01:33:46 freemangordon, I like the E36s more. Aug 28 01:33:58 Although, if you could cram about 500 HP in an 80s VW Rabbit. . . . Aug 28 01:34:09 GeneralAntilles: e6 looks way ore sexy Aug 28 01:34:11 vw rabbit? Aug 28 01:34:16 *e46 Aug 28 01:34:18 is that the golf mk I Aug 28 01:34:18 freemangordon: a SC "mirrors" whatever magnetic field you "show" to it Aug 28 01:34:41 RiD, yeah. Aug 28 01:34:46 now think of a magnet pushed thru a SC ring Aug 28 01:34:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPRjsl-QOI Aug 28 01:34:59 is that good enough for you? Aug 28 01:35:02 Well, Mk. II Aug 28 01:35:11 DocScrutinizer05: sure. But wait, don't they use SC coils actualy? Aug 28 01:35:13 you return the magnet outside of the ring and push it thru the ring again Aug 28 01:35:33 then again, and again Aug 28 01:35:49 8,65 is definitely not bad. he states it's fully street legal too Aug 28 01:35:56 but im not into that stuff Aug 28 01:36:13 I like the rumble of a big American V8. Aug 28 01:36:24 Turbo I-4s just don't have the same visceral feel to them. Aug 28 01:36:34 GeneralAntilles: my old BMW was e36, my current is e46. honestly, e46 is waay better Aug 28 01:36:36 after doing this 1000 times the SC ring should have a magnetic field of either 1000 or even 2000 times your small magnet you pushed Aug 28 01:37:11 freemangordon, ah. Aug 28 01:37:20 no? Aug 28 01:37:29 I have a particular fondness for that mid-90s BMW look. Aug 28 01:37:30 DocScrutinizer05: I think I know what happens, it is just that I am few jacks ahead right now to think about it Aug 28 01:37:50 I'd really love to find an E30 M3 for a reasonable price. Aug 28 01:38:04 GeneralAntilles: the first bummer I was driving was E21 :P Aug 28 01:38:52 Lucky man. Aug 28 01:39:10 GeneralAntilles: well, I am in Europe after all :) Aug 28 01:39:22 what is that supposed to mean Aug 28 01:39:24 * GeneralAntilles putters around in a Gen 4 I-4 5-speed Camry. Aug 28 01:39:41 RiD: AFAIK GeneralAntilles is in USA Aug 28 01:39:49 USA USA Aug 28 01:39:52 oh crap, i forgot about rockbox too Aug 28 01:39:55 ask sixwheeledbeast Aug 28 01:39:58 ;-) Aug 28 01:40:01 me too :P Aug 28 01:40:56 I was really baffled about what his nick refers to Aug 28 01:41:01 Random aside: read Wool. It's excellent (as is the rest of the series). Aug 28 01:41:43 and now I finally get me that cold pizza from yesterday Aug 28 01:41:46 DocScrutinizer05: six wheeled motorcycle or something Aug 28 01:41:57 I remember you were there when he explained Aug 28 01:42:00 actually a pickup Aug 28 01:42:05 oh, yeah Aug 28 01:42:09 Truck Aug 28 01:42:14 :nod: Aug 28 01:42:27 of which only 20 orso got built Aug 28 01:42:33 http://0.tqn.com/d/trucks/1/0/9/B/1/diesel_tundra_4.jpg Aug 28 01:42:38 They're all over the place. Aug 28 01:42:46 NAH! Aug 28 01:42:51 We don't tax gas to infinite and beyond here. Aug 28 01:43:20 some 500HP 3 axes pickup Aug 28 01:43:43 See a lot of them towing horses here. Aug 28 01:43:56 having 500hp is just not fair :( Aug 28 01:44:09 My dad's got an old Ford dually, 6-wheels there Aug 28 01:45:39 robbiethe1st: hi! Aug 28 01:45:56 GeneralAntilles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BMW_3er_%28E46,_1998%E2%80%932001%29_front_MJ.JPG :P Aug 28 01:46:02 ...also, diesel, with /maby/ 200HP, on a good day Aug 28 01:46:03 GeneralAntilles: could you manage a devel device for robbiethe1st? Aug 28 01:46:31 he seriously honestly deserves and needs one Aug 28 01:46:47 We'll see by tomorrow if I need one; I found something on ebay, just slightly broken, and offered the guy $80 Aug 28 01:46:53 DocScrutinizer05, no bank access. Aug 28 01:46:59 dang! Aug 28 01:47:01 Can't really afford it right now, but... Aug 28 01:47:36 Bank manager at First Niagara was a complete dick to Woody. Aug 28 01:47:39 that's plain silly Aug 28 01:48:39 what about that lawyer who created that mess? can't he transfer the money to any more sane and tangible place? Aug 28 01:49:27 Also, yes. I would suggest using a credit union instead of a bank Aug 28 01:49:40 I'm still wondering what to do, call police or talk to hells angels Aug 28 01:49:42 CUs are almost always nicer to work with Aug 28 01:52:48 honestly, I feel like chief of idiot crew hearing we got ~4k$ of donations but don't have the money to pay robbiethe1st a device for 100$ Aug 28 01:53:02 XD Aug 28 01:53:13 Take it over yourself Aug 28 01:53:16 Donations are for infra. Aug 28 01:53:25 not all of them Aug 28 01:53:42 Going to attempt to form a German e.V. and open an account there Aug 28 01:54:03 Get them to cut a check for the new corporate account. Aug 28 01:54:07 Thing I've found is that, no matter what the problem is, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself. Aug 28 01:54:14 yeah, that will for sure happen tomorrow and pan out effortlessly Aug 28 01:55:04 robbiethe1st what happened? Aug 28 01:55:13 * DocScrutinizer05 is taking 80$ from "his" "funds" "account" and transferring it to robbiethe1st Aug 28 01:55:34 RiD, how do you mean? This applies to anything at work Aug 28 01:55:47 no no no, i mean your n900 Aug 28 01:55:54 broken Aug 28 01:56:00 how badly broken Aug 28 01:56:08 did it set itself on fire Aug 28 01:56:23 sufficiently bad to not allow BM maintenance and development Aug 28 01:57:23 I'm just so fed up that such stuff always gets paid by me or woody from our private wallet Aug 28 01:57:24 Lets see. I currently have three. My original one has a broken USB port. My current one has a broken cellmodem, but otherwise works... and I use it every day Aug 28 01:57:56 i currently have 1 and spare parts of a broken one that i bought.. the owner scammed me Aug 28 01:58:39 the one that works has a broken usb obviously Aug 28 01:59:22 My third has a broken USB port, and may or may not have a working cellmodem Aug 28 01:59:37 Note that #2 and #3 were both bought broken, because they were cheap Aug 28 01:59:51 define cheap btw Aug 28 02:00:10 This was several years ago(2-3), so around $100 Aug 28 02:00:14 when devices were $300 Aug 28 02:00:14 I see Aug 28 02:00:26 i got one with a totally busted mobo for 45 Aug 28 02:00:36 two devices for like $120, versus a new/good one for 300. Aug 28 02:00:41 * DocScrutinizer05 is going to write invoices for his overtime and other expenses and send them to HiFo Aug 28 02:00:46 everything else was supposed to be in quite good state. Ah, horrible it was. Aug 28 02:01:44 this week i'm going to buy another N900. I know for a fact that this one actually works and the usb is not broken Aug 28 02:02:08 i'll be able to check the most vital things though, before buying Aug 28 02:02:34 DocScrutinizer05, no bank access. :P Aug 28 02:03:36 I'm just glad that friggin PP account of HiFo also is broken Aug 28 02:04:52 If you want to expedite it, help Win7Mac draft the legal documents for the e.V. Aug 28 02:04:54 I wonder if I could come up with a way how HiFo could have get fsckd up any more than it is now Aug 28 02:05:15 Pointless complaining. Aug 28 02:05:17 We're working on it. Aug 28 02:05:22 The people who made the mess are gone. Aug 28 02:05:30 no, embarrassing Aug 28 02:06:13 give me the address and name, I'll find somebody to tell them Aug 28 02:07:05 That's why we had a special election. Aug 28 02:07:11 even when we got an e.V. in Germany. Then what? Aug 28 02:07:28 Then no dealing with US taxes or First Niagara Aug 28 02:07:29 how's that changing anything about the no-access issue? Aug 28 02:07:36 They'll cut a check to a Germany corporate account Aug 28 02:07:49 and then we have access to the money and can open up PayPal donations. Aug 28 02:07:58 dafaq, transfer the shit to your account!!! or mine! Aug 28 02:08:16 ...or mine :D Aug 28 02:08:24 Can't Aug 28 02:08:26 Don't have access Aug 28 02:08:33 First Niagara refuses to give us access Aug 28 02:08:40 so HOW IS THAT going to CHANGE? Aug 28 02:08:40 Who has access? Aug 28 02:08:47 Nobody Aug 28 02:09:03 But they agreed to cut a check to another Hildon Foundation corporate account. Aug 28 02:09:12 bullshit! Aug 28 02:09:14 Yes Aug 28 02:09:15 Well Aug 28 02:09:29 Unless you have the time and money to take them to small claims court Aug 28 02:09:42 what you for sure should do Aug 28 02:09:55 Anybody who speaks German should go ahead and help Win7Mac draft the e.V. docs. Aug 28 02:09:55 and include that lawyer into that trial Aug 28 02:10:32 dafaq, no german e.V. will have any credibility at some fuckedup 1st nigeria Aug 28 02:11:05 who's on that account's access list? Aug 28 02:11:21 I don't believe anyone is Aug 28 02:11:22 first nigeria lol Aug 28 02:11:29 that dude the HECK goes and transfers the whole money to some other account! Aug 28 02:11:29 Rob was removed Aug 28 02:11:48 when nobody is then the money is lost forever Aug 28 02:11:50 and they refuse to acknowledge our corporate resolution to add Woody & Co. Aug 28 02:12:07 are they NUTS?? Aug 28 02:12:13 Money's in the account, but nobody currently has access, bank manager is an uncooperative asshole. Aug 28 02:12:23 So, we're working through it as best we can. Aug 28 02:12:27 * DocScrutinizer05 buys a one way ticket to USA, and a winchester Aug 28 02:12:36 They agreed to cut a check to another HiFo corporate account. Aug 28 02:13:02 what the holy fuck is " another HiFo corporate account"??? Aug 28 02:13:17 One opened with a German bank. Aug 28 02:13:19 HiFo is no corporation! Aug 28 02:13:22 To go with the e.V. Aug 28 02:13:24 Uh, yes it is. Aug 28 02:13:36 Incorporated in the state of Pennsylvania. Aug 28 02:13:48 this is so terribly ridiculous Aug 28 02:14:23 I gonna fly over there and beat up Rob the correct way Aug 28 02:15:06 maybe homeland security can help Aug 28 02:15:19 BTW, I'm in the US, I will offer what I can Aug 28 02:15:36 I'm in Idaho, though, which makes it a little hard for some things Aug 28 02:15:54 robbiethe1st: ask what a raid command will ask for! Aug 28 02:16:32 I think Mr R.M.B. loudly asked for something like that Aug 28 02:16:43 huh? Aug 28 02:18:24 Rob obviously managed to get himself removed from account access list (as the only one on there) and failed to get anybody else on Aug 28 02:19:08 he effectively donated stuff to first nigeria Aug 28 02:20:13 with nobody on access list, nobody ever can claim the donations anytime again Aug 28 02:21:21 heck, he even might have taken the money and now laughs at maemo community Aug 28 02:21:29 we'll never know Aug 28 02:21:36 Sure we do. Aug 28 02:21:43 uhuh Aug 28 02:21:59 They agreed to pen a check to another HiFo account. Aug 28 02:22:04 The money is still there. Aug 28 02:22:22 WHAT THE FUCK **IS** another HiFo account? Aug 28 02:23:26 and how do you think anybody on earth could prove this property of any account? Aug 28 02:24:25 in the world I live in you got *persons* who can access accounts Aug 28 02:24:44 and tell what shall happen to the money on there Aug 28 02:24:56 they have to prove their identity Aug 28 02:25:30 by passwords, ID card, whatever Aug 28 02:26:14 in Gwrmany you can't even pen an account for some "HiFo" Aug 28 02:26:20 or e.V. Aug 28 02:26:37 you always have *persons* that have access Aug 28 02:28:09 in my book Rob is a burglar Aug 28 02:31:45 I also think today you don't have any checks assigned to names or particular accounts. everybody owning a check can hand it in on whatever account s/he likes Aug 28 02:32:33 if there are any checks anyway nowadays. Probably they don't print that stuff anymore Aug 28 02:33:26 I think last time I seen a check is like 20 years ago Aug 28 02:34:57 and even back then they all had the printed note under "recipient": "or the one handing this check in" and on the backside "strike out of 'or then one that hands in' is considered moot" Aug 28 02:36:04 so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account? Aug 28 02:38:09 I more and more understand what happened to the contract with Nokia Aug 28 02:43:53 if HiFo USA isn't able to open a new account and make that money get transferred from 1st nigra to that new account, how do you think a german e.V. could do? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 28 02:59:58 2013