**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 22 03:00:00 2013
Sep 22 03:58:19 <psycho_oreos> jdoles, N900 was one of the most powerful device capable of running linux and bearing phone functionality that existed on the market three years ago. Even though N900 has proprietary bits and is now considered a dated technology against modern rivals, linux users can happily admit that N900 will continue to show what embedded technology running linux can do. You can think of it as a similar case such as Trolltech Qt phone, Openmoko phones/devices, 
Sep 22 03:58:19 <psycho_oreos> etc.
Sep 22 04:00:40 <psycho_oreos> An Apple fan for instance will happily retain iPhones thinking that it was the best innovation Apple did along with bringing out phone functionality. That very similar case can be applied here.
Sep 22 04:02:10 <psycho_oreos> If you're going to view N900 as some poor device that is either slow, battery hogging, poorly designed, outdated, etc. You're not going to have any better perception.
Sep 22 04:04:01 <wmarone> the problem is that all of that is true to a degree
Sep 22 04:04:11 <wmarone> doesn't negate that it was a great device
Sep 22 04:05:03 <psycho_oreos> I too can happily admit along with RiD that N900 is still my primary phone/device. Once I get my N900 fixed, I will continue to use N900 until a suitable replacement candidate (such as Neo900) comes along.
Sep 22 04:05:41 <wmarone> I retired mine because it kept missing calls and failing at any actual connectivity (not retrieving mail, etc.)
Sep 22 04:06:42 <psycho_oreos> To me in all honesty, it depends on how one perceives a glass cup with half the amount of water. Skeptics will think that the glass is already half empty, optimists will think the opposite.
Sep 22 04:07:08 <wmarone> it's consumer electronics, not a lifestyle
Sep 22 04:08:20 <psycho_oreos> I have had similar issues with mine until I started using CSSU-Thumb. Although it still wasn't a complete fix, I am still happy to see the capabilities that it bore three years ago.
Sep 22 04:08:54 <psycho_oreos> I was crudely putting N900 in a manner of which how one were to objectively view things.
Sep 22 04:09:17 <wmarone> Changing the processor instruction set being used won't fix fundamental software bugs.
Sep 22 04:10:43 <psycho_oreos> Not that I wasn't aware of that, but my concerns were squarely pointed at how I set mine up and how the device continues to run over time without shutting down.
Sep 22 04:11:19 <wmarone> without shutting down?
Sep 22 04:11:56 <psycho_oreos> In terms of *nix side of things, think of it as like uptime that is on mission critical servers.
Sep 22 04:12:01 <wmarone> ah
Sep 22 04:12:09 <wmarone> well yes, it would never crash
Sep 22 04:12:41 <wmarone> but the N900 does have software bugs that would require reboots to get around, particularly in the network connectivity bits
Sep 22 04:13:51 <psycho_oreos> Not only that, but it has to still behave like as if the way the machine started for the very first time. It has to retain that same performance (to a degree), if the machine were to get very sluggish over time. That would decrease one's desires in achieving maximum productivity.
Sep 22 04:14:28 <wmarone> wrath of tracker and the browser
Sep 22 04:14:33 <wmarone> and lack of RAm
Sep 22 04:14:34 <wmarone> heh
Sep 22 04:15:19 <psycho_oreos> Yeah or things like maybe software rot. It's inevitable as it is also inherently blaming on proprietary/closed bits and/or lacking popularity to get issues resolved quicker.
Sep 22 04:15:58 <wmarone> and being abandoned
Sep 22 04:17:56 <psycho_oreos> Again N900 is dated in today's standards, but three years ago. Nobody would be able to find a device bearing similar capabilities and yet being sold as a consumer device. To me, apart from linux on phone (so to speak) with 32GB eMMC and bearing microSD expansion upgrade-ability was really superior.
Sep 22 04:18:15 <wmarone> well, yes
Sep 22 04:18:17 <wmarone> that's why I bought one
Sep 22 04:19:08 <psycho_oreos> Inevitably. Technologies don't evolve themselves, but N900 I'd say would go down in the history of linux making its footprint in the real world as a beast of it's time.
Sep 22 04:19:23 <wmarone> amongst its fans
Sep 22 04:20:44 <psycho_oreos> Yup, regardless of what sort of fan are you. Apple fans have their iPhones. Other linux fans would see Android as their star, etc.
Sep 22 05:48:14 <oooaaaooo> hi guys am having trouble sshing into n900 via usb
Sep 22 05:49:55 <oooaaaooo> connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: No route to host
Sep 22 05:50:03 <oooaaaooo> is what it says on my computer
Sep 22 05:50:08 <oooaaaooo> usually it works fine
Sep 22 05:50:46 <oooaaaooo> dmesg on my computer gives me this
Sep 22 05:50:55 <oooaaaooo> ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): usb0: link is not ready
Sep 22 05:52:11 <oooaaaooo> nevermind
Sep 22 05:52:25 <oooaaaooo> figured it out
Sep 22 07:56:11 <SAiF> settings for yahoo IM? there are defaults for gmail and facebook, but not for yahoo?
Sep 22 08:27:24 <oooaaaooo> hi guys when i ssh into n900 and run ls i get "ls: unrecognized option `--color=auto'
Sep 22 08:27:25 <oooaaaooo> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso31+0cssu0) multi-call binary
Sep 22 08:27:25 <oooaaaooo> Usage: ls [-1AacCdeilnLRrSsTtuvwxXhk] [filenames...]
Sep 22 08:27:25 <oooaaaooo> "
Sep 22 08:27:36 <oooaaaooo> why is it doing that
Sep 22 08:27:55 <oooaaaooo> it runs fine on the n900 itself
Sep 22 08:28:21 <oooaaaooo> is this a ssh option
Sep 22 08:29:55 <psycho_oreos> Sounds like alias in probably ~/.bashrc or something like that.
Sep 22 08:30:15 <zammy> when I run my ssh on n900 using root... or without root I can't
Sep 22 08:30:24 <zammy> if I try ls it runs good
Sep 22 08:30:32 <kerio> oooaaaooo: wrong TERM maybe
Sep 22 08:30:39 <kerio> no wait
Sep 22 08:30:44 <kerio> it's a weird alias
Sep 22 08:31:29 <oooaaaooo> yup
Sep 22 08:31:34 <oooaaaooo> zammy: yup
Sep 22 08:31:42 <oooaaaooo> zammy: thanx that worked
Sep 22 08:32:20 <oooaaaooo> thats weird; you have to gainroot before ls works...
Sep 22 08:32:35 <zammy> anyway I never been able to ssh my n900 without root... 
Sep 22 08:32:59 <oooaaaooo> probably because its a different session with different settings...?
Sep 22 08:33:20 <psycho_oreos> You two don't know much about linux CLI do you? It was already pointed out earlier that it was 'alias'.
Sep 22 08:33:49 <oooaaaooo> psycho_oreos: what was aliased
Sep 22 08:34:22 <zammy> who knows which is the password for user@myn900
Sep 22 08:34:30 <zammy> idk
Sep 22 08:34:53 <psycho_oreos> oooaaaooo, 'ls' command. Have a look clearly when you type 'alias' look at the line that contains ls="ls --color=auto" or something like that and see where the busybox provided ls would provide that option.
Sep 22 08:35:19 <psycho_oreos> There's no password set default for user. You can set one up yourself.
Sep 22 08:36:45 <oooaaaooo> psycho_oreos: there is none on the n900 but it does exist on my host machine
Sep 22 08:37:03 <oooaaaooo> ls='ls $LS_OPTIONS'
Sep 22 08:37:03 <oooaaaooo> l='ls $LS_OPTIONS -lA'
Sep 22 08:37:03 <oooaaaooo> ll='ls $LS_OPTIONS -l'
Sep 22 08:37:07 <oooaaaooo> is on my n900
Sep 22 08:37:17 <oooaaaooo> alias grep='grep --colour=auto'
Sep 22 08:37:17 <oooaaaooo> alias ls='ls --color=auto
Sep 22 08:37:20 <oooaaaooo> on my local
Sep 22 08:37:49 <psycho_oreos> and what does 'echo $LS_OPTIONS' show when you type that in on your N900?
Sep 22 08:38:25 <oooaaaooo> --color=auto
Sep 22 08:38:43 <psycho_oreos> Exactly.
Sep 22 08:39:13 <oooaaaooo> so basically by default it already includes the options?
Sep 22 08:39:38 <oooaaaooo> when i call ls
Sep 22 08:40:18 <psycho_oreos> I'm unsure if its by default but you're welcome to either: install and use GNU ls and/or redefine $LS_OPTIONS variable/environment variable.
Sep 22 08:42:00 <oooaaaooo> hmm i thought i had gnu ls installed
Sep 22 08:42:09 <oooaaaooo> was that a part of coreutils?
Sep 22 08:42:21 <psycho_oreos> Whenever you call ls, because ls is aliased to do whatever is stated in $LS_OPTIONS it will make ls run whatever $LS_OPTIONS states. That's the basics of alias, seriously.. learn BASH.
Sep 22 08:43:03 <psycho_oreos> Even if you have GNU ls installed, it would not be in the same $PATH as busybox provided ls. It would probably be in /usr/bin/gnu/ls or something like that.
Sep 22 08:43:48 <oooaaaooo> so basically redefine alias ls to point to gnu ls
Sep 22 08:44:03 <oooaaaooo> ok
Sep 22 08:44:39 <psycho_oreos> or un-alias ls so that you won't need to bother with ls --color=auto whenever it tries to call /bin/ls.
Sep 22 08:50:49 <oooaaaooo> Due to conflicts with busybox and SDK, all binaries are stored in /usr/bin/gnu,
Sep 22 08:50:50 <oooaaaooo>  which could be added to $PATH, or can be called with a 'g' prefix, e.g., 'gcat'
Sep 22 08:50:50 <oooaaaooo>  for cat.
Sep 22 08:50:52 <oooaaaooo> solved
Sep 22 10:31:57 <sixwheeledbeast> zammy: what is your issue with ssh?
Sep 22 10:33:43 <sixwheeledbeast> user password is not set by the sounds of it
Sep 22 10:34:04 <sixwheeledbeast> "passwd user" to set in terminal
Sep 22 10:41:29 <sixwheeledbeast> openssh only sets root password on installation
Sep 22 10:44:39 <wnd> Now that we're at it, I can't log in with pubkey authentication (using openssh) on my n900. I used to be able to, and I remember I had to some some extra manual work in order to make it happen. Then I had to do a full reflash, and now I can't remember how to do it again. This is kind of embarassing.
Sep 22 10:45:26 <Wizzup> yes
Sep 22 10:45:33 <Wizzup> google on how to do pubkey auth
Sep 22 10:45:39 <Wizzup> its really simple
Sep 22 10:47:02 <wnd> Before I do, I'd like to say that I do use pubkey for other computers, including using single-purpose keys to run unattended, pre-determined commands/scripts in cronjobs and such.
Sep 22 10:47:28 <wnd> but for whatever reason I no longer can make that work with n900
Sep 22 10:48:53 <wnd> actually, asking on irc (and not getting an answer) solved the problem again
Sep 22 10:48:59 <wnd> this is scary how othen it works
Sep 22 10:49:19 <wnd> after asking the question I realised permissions for $HOME/.ssh were too liberal
Sep 22 10:49:32 <wnd> again, this is embarassing :-)
Sep 22 10:51:19 <robotanarchy> can anyone recommend a good monospace font for the terminal?
Sep 22 10:53:56 <wnd> I use 7x13 (and truetype for whatever glyphcs that are missing)
Sep 22 10:56:24 <robotanarchy> ah thanks
Sep 22 10:56:57 <robotanarchy> and one thing that has always bugged me: is it possible to enable / disable repos from SSH?
Sep 22 10:57:02 <robotanarchy> or add new ones
Sep 22 10:57:28 <wnd> well, there is /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
Sep 22 10:57:46 <wnd> not sure if touching it will upset ham, though
Sep 22 10:57:51 <robotanarchy> doesn't that get rewritten by hildon every now and then?
Sep 22 10:57:57 <Wizzup> changing it wfm
Sep 22 10:58:30 <robotanarchy> wfm?
Sep 22 10:58:43 <Wizzup> works for me
Sep 22 10:58:45 <Wizzup> afk
Sep 22 10:58:50 <robotanarchy> ok thx
Sep 22 10:59:45 <wnd> what does ham actually do when you disable a repository? I mean, iirc it still remember that repo, so it must keep a record somewhere.
Sep 22 11:00:05 <robotanarchy> also the repo names are not in that file
Sep 22 11:00:24 <wnd> ah, that too
Sep 22 11:01:01 <wnd> /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues
Sep 22 11:01:23 <wnd> that's probably the one
Sep 22 13:29:18 <wotan147> guys I try to follow http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging, but after I sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL and relaunch, I don't see no armel package
Sep 22 13:29:21 <wotan147> any ideas?
Sep 22 13:30:55 <RST38h> You are not supposed to see anything
Sep 22 13:31:09 <RST38h> It sets scratchbox to compile for armel
Sep 22 13:31:13 <DocScrutinizer05> robotanarchy: it *will* get rewritten every now and then. Actually changing repos form cmdline is *not* recommended, you better use HAM for that, even when you usually use apt only and never use HAM to install/uninstall packages
Sep 22 13:31:29 <RST38h> now, you are supposed to build your package
Sep 22 13:31:57 <robotanarchy> DocScrutinizer05: ok thanks :)
Sep 22 13:32:03 <wotan147> yes but then I relaunch with dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k<my email address> and there is no .deb 
Sep 22 13:33:42 <wotan147> any idea RST38h?
Sep 22 13:41:31 <wotan147> when packaging for N900,  in the debian/rule, should I point toward qmake-qt4 or /opt/NokiaQtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/targets/fremantle-pr13/bin/qmake-qt4 ?
Sep 22 14:35:40 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: sample rules file http://pastebin.com/d3jczixj
Sep 22 14:35:52 <sixwheeledbeast> this is from a Qt package BTW
Sep 22 14:36:40 <sixwheeledbeast> are you at the correct dir when running dpkg-build? error message?
Sep 22 15:15:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I never heard anybody asking which build tool to reference in rules file .oO(???)
Sep 22 15:24:32 <Suny> Hi
Sep 22 15:26:35 <Suny> Docscrutinizer ping 
Sep 22 15:27:00 <DocScrutinizer05> pong, timeout 60s
Sep 22 15:28:07 <Suny> Doc can we manually edit /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/backlight file 
Sep 22 15:28:31 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry have to run, decide between plague and cholera, aka "vote". BBL
Sep 22 15:28:48 <robotanarchy> go go go 30 minutes!
Sep 22 15:28:49 <Suny> no problem
Sep 22 15:28:54 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, not easily, but you probably can bindmount a new file over it
Sep 22 15:30:04 <Suny> well how to do so I have this installed talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1198881&postcount=183
Sep 22 15:30:37 <DocScrutinizer05> mount -o bind ~/my-editable-file /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/backlight
Sep 22 15:31:21 <DocScrutinizer05> won't change the file handles of processes that already opened /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/backlight
Sep 22 15:33:01 <DocScrutinizer05> so you probably will want to restart mce after that bindmount
Sep 22 15:33:33 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe hal too
Sep 22 15:34:03 <Suny> or restarting device
Sep 22 15:34:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, or are you asking about a simple "echo $foobar >/sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/backlight" ?
Sep 22 15:34:48 <DocScrutinizer05> to actually change backlight brightness. That's possible any time
Sep 22 15:35:33 <Suny> yes
Sep 22 15:35:43 <DocScrutinizer05> that's pretty standard
Sep 22 15:35:53 <DocScrutinizer05> the sysnode is meant to get used that way
Sep 22 15:36:03 <Suny> but which file to edit
Sep 22 15:36:04 <DocScrutinizer05> alas mce will overwrite whatever you put there
Sep 22 15:36:32 <DocScrutinizer05> bbl, sorry
Sep 22 15:36:50 <Suny> I editted brightness file but whenever I change brightness level it revert back to its original value
Sep 22 15:37:01 <DocScrutinizer05> alas mce will overwrite whatever you put there
Sep 22 15:37:09 <DocScrutinizer05> stop mce
Sep 22 15:38:25 <Suny> killall mce
Sep 22 15:38:36 <DocScrutinizer05> nope
Sep 22 15:38:39 <DocScrutinizer05> stop mce
Sep 22 15:38:51 <DocScrutinizer05> literal
Sep 22 15:40:36 <Suny> will it revert back on restarting device
Sep 22 15:40:57 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Sep 22 15:41:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and on
Sep 22 15:41:03 <DocScrutinizer05> start mce
Sep 22 15:41:32 <wotan147> sixwheeledbeast but still it is only building a i386 package
Sep 22 15:42:10 <sixwheeledbeast> er? are you FREMANTLE_ARMEL:
Sep 22 15:42:15 <Suny> is there anyway to use our own assign values  ?
Sep 22 15:44:46 <wotan147> 1 st time I run http://pastebin.com/E65W0gAi
Sep 22 15:45:23 <wotan147> then I sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL as said  in http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Packaging_a_.deb
Sep 22 15:46:07 <wotan147> and than relaunch with dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -kmyname@myemail
Sep 22 15:47:34 <wotan147> and then It says that http://pastebin.com/cT2MCMzd
Sep 22 15:49:21 <Suny> oh using hex editor editing binary file
Sep 22 15:55:50 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, I haven't forgotten about the announcement. Real estate things have been occupying my attention.
Sep 22 15:56:35 <Wizzup> so, the n900 portrait mode
Sep 22 15:57:00 <Wizzup> is it also possible to have it do portait mode when holding the n900 upside down
Sep 22 15:57:00 <Wizzup> Like, flipped portait mode?
Sep 22 15:57:04 <Wizzup> (I have this phone holder for my bike, and the place where the jack goes is covered in ``normal'' portrait orientation
Sep 22 15:58:39 <wotan147> sixwheeledbeast do you know if there is another thing to do to specify to build for armel?
Sep 22 16:04:19 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: you are using <> around your email?
Sep 22 16:04:29 <Wizzup> Is this a weird question?
Sep 22 16:04:56 <sixwheeledbeast> Wizzup yes it's weird :P no i don't believe you can
Sep 22 16:06:14 <Wizzup> It seems like something so trivial.
Sep 22 16:06:14 <Wizzup> As in, flip the final image to the screen and the input
Sep 22 16:08:07 <wotan147> sixwheeledbeast no, should I?
Sep 22 16:08:28 <sixwheeledbeast> AFAIK yes
Sep 22 16:08:59 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: no worries, I've been busy this week as well
Sep 22 16:10:00 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: TBH looking at my files I don't use -k option at all, I some how remember making scratchbox learn my e-mail and do it automatically
Sep 22 16:10:33 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: afaik it should already do this "upside-down portrait"
Sep 22 16:11:23 <wotan147> okay
Sep 22 16:11:34 <wotan147> but why would he build the x86 package then ?
Sep 22 16:11:39 <sixwheeledbeast> upside down portrait really?!
Sep 22 16:12:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I never use portrait, so U don't know for sure, but I seem to remember it should do all 4 orientations, and everything else would be pretty buggy design anyway
Sep 22 16:12:24 <DocScrutinizer05> s/U /I /
Sep 22 16:12:25 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: I never use portrait, so I don't know for sure, but I seem to remember it should do all 4 orientations, and everything else would be pretty buggy design anyway
Sep 22 16:12:43 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: I am not sure TBH I am pretty fresh to that
Sep 22 16:13:10 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: I see, it doesn't switch to it anyway
Sep 22 16:13:22 <Wizzup> at least, seems to
Sep 22 16:13:23 <DocScrutinizer05> then open a ticket against CSSU
Sep 22 16:13:41 <Wizzup> okay, sounds nice
Sep 22 16:13:42 <Wizzup> I just might
Sep 22 16:13:45 <Wizzup> have to go home first though
Sep 22 16:13:56 <Wizzup> ¯\o/¯
Sep 22 16:14:33 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: I set scratchbox up as the wiki's and run "dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot" as FREMANTLE_ARMEL: 
Sep 22 16:14:34 <DocScrutinizer05> my specs on how to implement lockswitch, white/blacklist et al, already considered all 4 orientations maybe 2 years ago
Sep 22 16:14:55 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: maybe you have incorrect targets?
Sep 22 16:15:53 <DocScrutinizer05> but then, those specs also already considered a special X-MAEMO-ORIENTATION tag in .desktop files, and I still don't see that
Sep 22 16:16:20 * sixwheeledbeast goes in search of some mystery ui_rotate gconf key for that...
Sep 22 16:24:29 <wotan147> sixwheeledbeast where are the target set?
Sep 22 16:27:13 <sixwheeledbeast> wotan147: in "sb-menu" look at show  
Sep 22 16:28:20 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: I see
Sep 22 16:28:25 <Wizzup> I may work on it, in the future
Sep 22 16:29:00 <Guest_____> I just discovered the Neo900 a few minutes ago.  Does anyone have an idea about when it might become available for purchase? 6 months? 1 year? 3 years?   I'm also wondering if the touch screen will support pinch-to-zoom (multi-touch)
Sep 22 16:29:23 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe 6 months
Sep 22 16:29:32 <DocScrutinizer05> rather 9
Sep 22 16:29:55 <DocScrutinizer05> no mt on touchpanel, it's same panel as on N900
Sep 22 16:30:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and fremantle doesn't support "pinch to zoom" anyway. In fremantle you have a different gesture to zoom
Sep 22 16:30:55 <Guest_____> Awesome, I signed up for the OpenPhoenux mailing list and will pre-order once that becomes available.   I'll be using Replicant OS (Android) once it runs on the GT04. They say they are working on it now
Sep 22 16:31:24 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, replicat already half finished afaik
Sep 22 16:31:52 <DocScrutinizer05> on GTA04
Sep 22 16:32:06 <Guest_____> I read that the case parts are overstock N900 parts.  What happens when those run out, will someone be able to manufacturer more parts?
Sep 22 16:32:13 <wotan147> sixwheeldbeast when I look there, I habe a FREMANTLE_ARMEL define for arm 
Sep 22 16:32:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I doubt the case parts will be our first problem we run into
Sep 22 16:32:47 <Guest_____> hahaha
Sep 22 16:33:12 <DocScrutinizer05> and if we actually sell so many devices that those become unavailable due to sell out, we will be able to afford building new ones
Sep 22 16:34:02 <Guest_____> I've held off buying a GTA04 based phone for years because I wanted somethign like the N900.. larger screen, slide out qwerty keyboard, nice form factor, etc.  Maybe once the Neo900 becomes available, more people like me will overwhelm the supplier with orders.
Sep 22 16:34:28 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't look like, see
Sep 22 16:34:37 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 
Sep 22 16:35:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~50 "preorders/votes" for >=700EUR, and we for sure won't be able to hit the "mass market" with a sales price tag of <450
Sep 22 16:35:48 <Guest_____> are you talking about the poll results?  Those don't count people like me who haven't been keeping tabs on GTA04 like myself
Sep 22 16:36:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, I'm aware of all that
Sep 22 16:36:55 <Guest_____> Count me in as someone willing to pay >=700EUR for one
Sep 22 16:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> for now we are happy when we can reach our 200 units threshold, or rather even the amount of people doing early ventuare preorder to finance the prototyping
Sep 22 16:37:48 <Guest_____> I haven't read much of the forum yet.. is there a pre-order page now? Do I have to pay now or can I pay when you are ready to manufacturer?
Sep 22 16:37:57 <DocScrutinizer05> not yet
Sep 22 16:38:02 <Guest_____> ok
Sep 22 16:38:32 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a time table I posted in one of the Neo900-thread posts
Sep 22 16:39:05 <Guest_____> Ok I'll look for it.   Once I have one, if I really like it, I would be interested in discussing becoming a Canadian reseller
Sep 22 16:39:09 <DocScrutinizer05> we'll come up with *something* you can throw money at, in 3..5 weeks maybe
Sep 22 16:39:34 <DocScrutinizer05> reseller? hey, nice :-)
Sep 22 16:39:43 <DocScrutinizer05> welcome
Sep 22 16:40:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I have _no_clue_ about the business part in this adventure, and I doubt Nikolaus thought about resellers yet. But hey, he could do now ;-)
Sep 22 16:41:02 <Guest_____> I'm nobody right now but I think these don't sell because people don't know about them, or why they should care about open platforms.  I'd market the product and try to sell as many as I can
Sep 22 16:43:15 <Guest_____> You've answered my immediate questions, so I'll keep an eye on the mailing list and check back every few weeks.  Thanks
Sep 22 16:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, right now we are about to validate design and investigate design options, like 1GB RAM
Sep 22 16:44:52 <DocScrutinizer05> we will not ask for, or accept any money before we are sure we can actually come up with something feasible that we _can_ do
Sep 22 16:47:14 <DocScrutinizer05> we're not going "thanks for all the donations, but sorry guys and gals, we realized we don't have the expertise to pull this off" or "... realized we can't source the DM3730 anymore" or "... relized the modem module doesn't fit nto N900 case" etc
Sep 22 16:48:10 <Guest_____> That's good, I'm not in a position to buy a batch of them right now anyway, plus I want to test one out for myself first.  I've never used an N900 or Maemo before, so for me getting Replicant OS working on it satisfactorily will be most important.  I hope Jitsi can get their Android port released next year too, because it supports ZRTP encryption on voice & video chats as well as OTR on text chats.
Sep 22 16:48:39 <DocScrutinizer05> we will offer methods to transfer money as soon as we have no doubt this can actually work if only sufficient preorders come in
Sep 22 16:49:33 <Guest_____> Is community@openphoenux.org a good mailing list to be on for updates?
Sep 22 16:49:49 <DocScrutinizer05> not exactly
Sep 22 16:50:06 <DocScrutinizer05> right now most info happening on
Sep 22 16:50:08 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 
Sep 22 16:50:26 <DocScrutinizer05> this may change a bit, soon
Sep 22 16:51:07 <Guest_____> ok, thanks
Sep 22 16:51:21 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe nikolaus will set up a dedicated neo900 ML, or will start chatting about neo900 on community@openphoenux.org
Sep 22 16:52:21 <SAiF> most people still havent seen an n900, I think strong publicity should be needed for Neo900.
Sep 22 16:52:22 <Guest_____> I'm currently subscribed to community.  I probably will not remember to check the forum very often, but new messages appearing on community will show up in my inbox
Sep 22 16:53:15 <dos1> Guest_____: bigger updates should still be mentioned in community ml
Sep 22 16:53:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Guest_____: register on tmo, subscribe to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 thread, receive emails for each new post
Sep 22 16:53:28 <dos1> if they won't, I'll write them by myself ;)
Sep 22 16:53:54 <Guest_____> @Doc: will do
Sep 22 16:54:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Guest_____: this way you as well can vote on the poll, which helps a lot for us estimating if this thing will fly or not
Sep 22 17:00:24 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: angela :c
Sep 22 17:01:00 <SAiF> ??
Sep 22 17:01:56 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: somebody shot her?
Sep 22 17:01:57 <Guest_____> Something is wrong with the website.  I registered, clicked the email activation link and then logged in to confirm.  To vote on the forum I have to login again, but it says my username/password is invalid.  I then tried to go to the main maemo.org homepage and login, same problem.  Then I tried from a different browser, same problem.  
Sep 22 17:02:39 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i'm sad
Sep 22 17:02:40 <kerio> so, no
Sep 22 17:03:04 <SAiF> I could login
Sep 22 17:03:18 <Guest_____> Oh I see a note that says new users might need to wait a few minutes
Sep 22 17:03:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Guest_____: wait for a while, make sure you correctly registered and confirmed. Aloow for processing of data and don't trigger spambot-countermeasures by too frequently hitting the register.php URL
Sep 22 17:05:51 <Guest_____> When I try to activate again, it says that I'm already activated.   I'll wait a while... it says I've used 4 out of 5 login attempts so I'll give it some time
Sep 22 17:07:07 <SAiF> I really would like to know where from we get the cases, is there enough around? I couldnt even see new ones on online listings.
Sep 22 17:07:12 * DocScrutinizer05 hands kerio a glas of Fernet Branca
Sep 22 17:07:56 <SAiF> And as you said above if you make then will it be of enough quality?
Sep 22 17:08:18 <DocScrutinizer05> SAiF: for now cases are abundance
Sep 22 17:08:31 <DocScrutinizer05> for ~17EUR
Sep 22 17:08:56 <DocScrutinizer05> in black, gray, silver, white, and even gold
Sep 22 17:09:14 <SAiF> ew.. to anything other than black
Sep 22 17:09:47 <dos1> pink maybe? ;)
Sep 22 17:09:56 <SAiF> originals?? or third party?
Sep 22 17:10:24 <SAiF> dos1, ^^ lol. I doubt whether girls still use it.
Sep 22 17:10:29 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/housing-for-nokia-n900.html
Sep 22 17:10:50 <DocScrutinizer05> Complete housing for nokia N900
Sep 22 17:10:52 <DocScrutinizer05> Min. Order: 20 Pieces
Sep 22 17:10:53 <DocScrutinizer05> Supply Ability: 50000 Piece/Pieces per Week
Sep 22 17:11:14 <DocScrutinizer05> enough? ;-P
Sep 22 17:11:28 <SAiF> I hope they are true.. 
Sep 22 17:11:52 <SAiF> Alibaba is a name of a thief right? 
Sep 22 17:12:04 <SAiF> or am I mistaken.. I heard a story like that
Sep 22 17:12:10 <SAiF> dont remember now.
Sep 22 17:12:26 <SAiF> alibaba and 40 thiefs..
Sep 22 17:12:49 <dos1> that first one with 20/50000 doesn't look like n900 one :P
Sep 22 17:13:07 <Guest_____> Off topic: When I click the vote button in the forum it takes me to a login page that doesn't use HTTPS, but it MD5 hashes the password before submitting.  I would feel much safer if it used HTTPS, preferrably with a Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS) algorithm.   I just tested https://garage.maemo.org/ using Qualys SSL Labs and it scored an F
Sep 22 17:13:08 <DocScrutinizer05> nokia n900: 164 Products found from 17 Suppliers + Manufacturers
Sep 22 17:14:21 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1126604396/Parts_Full_Housing_for_Nokia_N900.html
Sep 22 17:15:47 <Guest_____> Interesting, that one doesn't have a slide out keyboard
Sep 22 17:16:16 <SAiF> so you are plaaning to get some colors to neo?
Sep 22 17:17:08 <dos1> I can't decide which color I'd want
Sep 22 17:17:14 <Guest_____> N900 keyboard is a selling point for me
Sep 22 17:17:21 <dos1> so I want the rainbow one :D
Sep 22 17:18:01 <entitled> found out something weird, after since I opened my N900, the headphone jack doesen't always align perfectly. I get this buzzing sound that changes depending what gets displayed on the screen (interference). like playing a video has different sound than being on the "desktop".
Sep 22 17:18:06 <SAiF> I think original ones have a nokia nseries logo on back. and this one does have, its plain
Sep 22 17:18:45 <entitled> Now, I found out that when the display is turned off and I adjust volume, the noise gets increased for few seconds, exacly the time that it takes for the yellow volume bar to appear.
Sep 22 17:19:21 <entitled> so even if display is blank, the N900 still kind of renders all the UI.
Sep 22 17:19:22 <dos1> SAiF: actually, that's good
Sep 22 17:19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Guest_____: will won't ship Neo900 without kbd :-D
Sep 22 17:19:58 <SAiF> I was thinking, may be if they are manufacturing them, we would  request for a neo 900 logo 
Sep 22 17:20:00 <Guest_____> "will won't"   which one is it? haha
Sep 22 17:20:20 <entitled> Isn't that bad design? It must have an effect on the battery life, does that mean widgets or other crap get rendered even if display is off?
Sep 22 17:20:51 <SAiF> will is the shipping manager
Sep 22 17:20:56 <SAiF> lol
Sep 22 17:22:07 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Sep 22 17:22:28 <Guest_____> Still havn't been able to get logged into maemo.org after creating an account.   I'm heading out now but will check back on it later, and then place my vote for one.  Thanks for answering my questions.
Sep 22 17:22:53 <DocScrutinizer05> Guest_____: make sure to clear your browser cache and cookies
Sep 22 17:23:44 <entitled> Any input?
Sep 22 17:23:55 <DocScrutinizer05> then, if still problems, send a mail to chem|st, or ping him here
Sep 22 17:24:39 <DocScrutinizer05> entitled: no flaws in design known - your conclusions might be incorrect
Sep 22 17:27:37 <entitled> well I can try to make video+sound, that proves that yes, the volume bar gets rendered (same kind of noise for same time) regardless the state of display being on or off.
Sep 22 17:28:51 <DocScrutinizer05> first of all your "sound" is a bug and clearly not defined what exactly it tells us, except that your device is broken
Sep 22 17:28:59 <entitled> and smarter people can then try to figure out if any other UI related action is happening/active even if it shouldn't.
Sep 22 17:30:33 <DocScrutinizer05> and AV out is supposed to work even when screen blanked, so in the end all this is telling us nothing at all
Sep 22 17:30:40 <entitled> ah
Sep 22 17:31:02 <entitled> well it could be due to video out signal getting fed into the plug.
Sep 22 17:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Sep 22 17:31:52 <entitled> Well just thought it was worth mentioning and I forgot the whole video out as I never use that.
Sep 22 17:32:18 <DocScrutinizer05> np, thanks for bringing it to public attention
Sep 22 18:03:09 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ping
Sep 22 18:03:09 <infobot> ~pong
Sep 22 18:04:44 <SAiF> ?
Sep 22 18:12:10 <dos1> infobot vs. Doc - 1:0
Sep 22 19:07:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no, the ball was out
Sep 22 19:09:50 <jaska> of space
Sep 22 20:50:54 <RST38h> 1
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 23 02:59:59 2013