**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 08 02:59:59 2013 Oct 08 07:56:06 hi all Oct 08 07:56:18 how can I check what maemo ver I have Oct 08 07:56:20 ? Oct 08 07:56:39 how can I had ext-test , ext-dev from app manager or console? Oct 08 07:59:10 Maemo version: Settings > About product (If you have CSSU the version can be checked via About Community SSU). No idea what you meant by ext-test, ext-dev. Oct 08 07:59:25 ~seen estel Oct 08 07:59:27 i haven't seen 'estel', psycho_oreos Oct 08 08:08:28 extras-test extras-devel but what's "how can I had"? Oct 08 08:11:15 ~seen estel_ Oct 08 08:11:18 estel_ <~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 136d 10h 50m 16s ago, saying: 'sixwheeledbeast, thanks it is it. Pali, thanks, this source works too, I wasn't able to find it (it's hidden ins earch engines more than soviet guerilla in US)'. Oct 08 08:15:50 Thanks DocScrutinizer05, I bet he meant "how can I add". Oct 08 08:16:04 In any case the info is clearly printed on the wiki for those two repositories. Oct 08 08:18:45 I was looking at this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83928 For quite sometime I've just been lurking on it and seeing it's progress unfolding. Seems like a few prototype cases are now out for it. Oct 08 08:20:21 o.O welcome back. Did you get my responses? Oct 08 08:20:34 2 lines Oct 08 08:20:49 Ahh. Oct 08 08:20:55 I was looking at this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83928 For quite sometime I've just been lurking on it and seeing it's progress unfolding. Seems like a few prototype cases are now out for it. Oct 08 08:21:24 ohh Oct 08 08:23:48 * psycho_oreos contemplates on probably start asking estel_ directly (through forum) on how he plans to add those connectors for RF, but otherwise the project does look very intriguing. Oct 08 08:26:22 Also whilst trying to look for a donate button to estel_, I've just stumbled upon this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91535 No doubt you probably won't be interested in this (I wouldn't hold much hopes either considering right now it's only a prototype work). Though it may intrigue me more if it properly materialises as a proper add-on. Oct 08 08:28:55 DocScrutinizer05 , are you planing to come to FOSDEM? Oct 08 08:29:14 nobody "invited" me yet Oct 08 08:29:17 :-) Oct 08 08:29:29 and I generally hate fairs Oct 08 08:29:43 is anyone still using pulse audio ? Oct 08 08:29:44 so, no good reason yet to even ponder Oct 08 08:29:56 wut? lol Oct 08 08:29:57 seems the updates there stopped Oct 08 08:30:16 For maemo? or in general (for pulseaudio). Oct 08 08:30:35 Poettering got us all on this evil drug, now he's killing us with not delivering anymore? Oct 08 08:30:37 for maemo Oct 08 08:30:38 good Oct 08 08:31:16 Heh, I guess it's probably a sign of declining interests (maybe) on old product. Oct 08 08:31:35 cityLights: I never thought maemo polypaudio could get any updates, due to obsolete ABI and the closed blobs Oct 08 08:32:11 I too personally loathe pulseaudio I don't even setup my linux boxens with pulseaudio. Though because maemo has pulseaudio by default and forces one to use pulseaudio, I guess I'm forced to keep tabs on pulseaudio in that regard. Oct 08 08:32:38 I heard nevertheless that pali (or FMG) did some PA update for CSSU :-o Oct 08 08:33:06 Yeah they did, a few patches and a minor issue which was later resolved. Oct 08 08:33:23 I was promissed to be able to play musing from maemo to the home stereo over upnp Oct 08 08:33:29 never so how... Oct 08 08:33:37 I never wrapped my mind around it, just thought I'd prefer to not have it on my device Oct 08 08:33:37 I will try to fix PA network support and that famous CSSU pa bug... Oct 08 08:33:47 I think I managed to do it once via ushare (linux). Oct 08 08:33:49 But now I do not have here maemo env... Oct 08 08:33:55 you need to wait... Oct 08 08:34:45 PA has good network support, but some fucking Nokia developer decided to change PA api Oct 08 08:34:54 o.O another CSSU pa bug? not aware of that one. Though the previous one (in regards to ringtones being reverted back to default nokia tone) I thought was fixed. You basically removed backwards compatibility which worked perfectly (imo). Oct 08 08:35:11 so it is compatible only with PA in n900 Oct 08 08:35:27 cssu bug is about that ringtones... Oct 08 08:35:31 psycho_oreos: that doesn't sound like any PA bug Oct 08 08:35:51 PA is not involved in selecting ringtone Oct 08 08:36:06 there is bug :-) Oct 08 08:36:17 only in playback of whatever is in ~user/$.ringtonecache Oct 08 08:36:22 The same bug :/ pretty sure I've mentioned that it worked in my case. I sort of doubted the bug would reappear. At least not when I tried ringing my device numerous times. Oct 08 08:36:23 for some reasons after updating PA ringtone not working Oct 08 08:36:31 and only on some n900s Oct 08 08:36:54 and I was not able to reproduce it, but lot of TMO users yes Oct 08 08:37:04 we bisected which change broking it Oct 08 08:37:06 DocScrutinizer05, yeah it is a bug. I mean it seems to be fixed by removing compatibility (in my case it did). Oct 08 08:37:22 but is is not a fix... Oct 08 08:37:34 and is not in cssu repo or git Oct 08 08:37:59 Which is interesting, because after v5 with compatibility removed it worked flawlessly in my case. Oct 08 08:38:04 touching PA seems a poor idea Oct 08 08:38:17 it should be fixed correctly, not adding another nokia hacks Oct 08 08:38:47 PA is fully backward compatible on network Oct 08 08:39:16 but Nokia introduced something to network protocol which broke all network support Oct 08 08:39:27 lol Oct 08 08:39:44 A few owners on tmo were asking what was with PA and their ringtones/alarm defaulting to that old standard nokia ringtone. Oct 08 08:40:09 Even if it wasn't PA's fault, there was I guess something that broke it. Oct 08 08:40:10 what we can do is to announce that our PA is older version on network Oct 08 08:40:12 seems pretty unrelated Oct 08 08:40:20 and do not use funny nokia hacks Oct 08 08:41:04 if it wasn't for pulseaudio-nokia this whole pulseaudio mess would go away... Oct 08 08:41:25 "funny nokia hacks" are stuff like echo cancellation and audio enhancement and xprot Oct 08 08:41:31 no Oct 08 08:41:57 funny nokia *network* hacks are only chaning PA API on network Oct 08 08:42:07 and aiui we can't touch PA without breaking ABI compatibility for those plugins Oct 08 08:42:22 we can touch network part via TCP Oct 08 08:42:36 because this is not used on maemo Oct 08 08:42:57 maemo apps using only connection via named unix socket Oct 08 08:43:04 yep Oct 08 08:43:13 and tcp/udp network server is not started by default Oct 08 08:43:20 yeah the answer then is to undo Nokia's proprietary modifications to the network protocols and go back to stock Pulseaudio networking :) Oct 08 08:43:23 so it is really not used Oct 08 08:43:53 jonwil: not easy, because tcp/udp and socket connections shares code Oct 08 08:43:58 source code Oct 08 08:44:20 I already did that and it broke something (e.g. no ringtones) Oct 08 08:44:32 ok Oct 08 08:44:51 Any idea what the pasr package is for? Oct 08 08:45:07 I need to add if(using_tcp) downgrade_protocol(); else use_nokia_code(); Oct 08 08:45:14 pasr? Oct 08 08:45:19 do not remember Oct 08 08:45:21 that's why I feel reluctant to get PA touched on my daily phone when considering that audio is a CORE function of phones Oct 08 08:45:30 it has something with pulseaudio Oct 08 08:45:56 docscrutinizer05: but for cssu-devel it is ok Oct 08 08:46:12 for cssu-devel everything's OK Oct 08 08:46:13 here we can test what it broke or if it working... Oct 08 08:46:56 CSSU-devel basically is meant to provide all the bugs that we don't want to see anywhere else, so devels can tackle them Oct 08 08:47:52 so cssu-devel is actually what you NEVER want to use as normal user Oct 08 08:47:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1351048&postcount=1251 <--- that was probably close to the beginning of people reporting issues with default nokia ringtones and it being a possible bug in PA. Oct 08 08:48:30 Although I think some users had to enable CSSU-Devel to get updated ca-certificates or something once. Oct 08 08:48:35 I don't get it how PA could possibly change ringtone Oct 08 08:50:00 I think I have one idea: Oct 08 08:50:33 default ringtone has format which is playable by everything also without nokia PA modules Oct 08 08:51:11 user selected ringtone has format which cause that nokia pa module will redirect sound to module itself and process it Oct 08 08:51:28 aiui PA plays files from /home/user/.local/share/sounds/*.wav for ringtone. No way it CHANGES those Oct 08 08:51:30 In other words we could all try to convert and use the same format as that default nokia ringtone? Oct 08 08:51:43 and when nokia module not working (because of broken api) it tell that file is not playable Oct 08 08:51:58 and ringtone daemon switch to default Oct 08 08:52:18 there's NO other format than .wav supposed to be in /home/user/.local/share/sounds Oct 08 08:52:36 and we know that there are some nokia music pa modules... Oct 08 08:53:01 IOW your ringtone ALWAYS is a *.wav Oct 08 08:53:26 I think problem is in nokia modules which cause that some files are processed via module and some not Oct 08 08:53:38 Well no I meant that for affected users/owners to convert their currently used ringtone (not sure how it would work with people whom have multiple ringtones for various contacts or grouped contacts) into .wav format so that way there would be no issues with converting, etc. Oct 08 08:53:47 and it could depends on format or other statictis on file... Oct 08 08:54:14 psycho_oreos: "select ringtone" already does this converting Oct 08 08:54:22 it always did Oct 08 08:54:35 and if default ringtone is working it means that somehow nokia pa modules are not used Oct 08 08:54:45 ls -l /home/user/.local/share/sounds Oct 08 08:54:48 I do not have other idea Oct 08 08:55:40 DocScrutinizer05, true but there's almost always delays with conversion on the go and maybe it may have somehow messed with PA or whatever forcing "select ringtone" to go default nokia tune. Oct 08 08:56:05 what the heck "on the go"?? Oct 08 08:56:13 or problem can be that profiled daemon (which playing sounds) has some very bad PA api usage and when is not started against compiled PA version it will not work Oct 08 08:56:38 can somebody try to compile PA, install it in scratchbox and then compile profiled? Oct 08 08:56:41 the whole idea is that convertion to .wav is done when you *select* ringtone, not when you *play* it Oct 08 08:56:45 and install both to maemo: Oct 08 08:56:47 ? Oct 08 08:57:13 Unless if the user selects the ringtone, the "select ringtone" would have already converted one's personal choice of ringtone into .wav format thereby eliminating the need to convert that selected music or whatever as a ringtone when there's an incoming call. Oct 08 08:57:22 with this we can chech if problem is really in PA or in profiled Oct 08 08:57:31 please first wrap your head around how ringtone playback works before messing with PA Oct 08 08:57:33 Ahh. Oct 08 08:57:52 ringtone is played byt profiled Oct 08 08:58:21 maybe by canberra library? Oct 08 08:58:24 psycho_oreos: that's exactly how it works Oct 08 08:59:34 when you "select as ringtone" any $sounfile.ext, then the very same moment maemo converts it to /home/user/.local/share/sounds/${soundfile.ext}.wav Oct 08 09:00:02 DocScrutinizer05, I wasn't sure. When my N900 has been kept on for sometime and there's an incoming call with personalised ringtone. There would be a delay after the screen starts to show there's an incoming call, and usually the vibrator (which I have enabled) would always buzz first. Oct 08 09:00:28 personalized ringtones not supported by stock maemo Oct 08 09:00:48 barisione took care about that by doing some magic for swapping files in /home/user/.local/share/sounds Oct 08 09:01:22 very risky stuff Oct 08 09:01:40 Although right now I don't think my N900 would be suffering from the same issue with defaulting to stock ringtone. It used to but not anymore, I've done quite a thorough testing when PA v5 with no compatibility was out. It constantly played my selected ringtone. Oct 08 09:02:05 since those changes need to get reverted *always*, even when your call gets aborted hard by battery-low system shutdown Oct 08 09:02:06 Sorry I meant personalised ringtones as for whenever there's an incoming call regardless of whom it's from. Oct 08 09:03:03 Hmm. Oct 08 09:04:01 *shrugs*. If it's not an issue with PA, then I guess it's now somehow a "magic" fix? :) Oct 08 09:05:00 Like I said, in my case when I tried using PA v5 with no compatibility, the issues that I had prior to the PA v5 with no compatibility seems to have vanished. I was using the exact same ringtone as before. Oct 08 09:05:25 I don't see *any* way how PA could decide to not play /home/user/.local/share/sounds/daf-der_mussolini.mp3.wav but rather /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav Oct 08 09:06:25 Pali have sort of briefly discussed that above, but the information that was mentioned is somewhat beyond my knowledge. Oct 08 09:07:01 NB both are in ~user/ aka /home/ ! Oct 08 09:08:13 see what I wrote Oct 08 09:08:41 but PA has NFC about either of both files, PA doesn't know what's /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav Oct 08 09:09:15 profiled try to play sound file A via PA, but PA decide to use nokia module for processing Oct 08 09:09:26 loading nokia module failed Oct 08 09:09:28 I see what you wrote and I don't see how that makes PA revert to default ringtone Oct 08 09:09:37 and playing file A failed Oct 08 09:09:47 then profiled try to play default file Oct 08 09:09:59 and PA decide to not use nokia processing module Oct 08 09:10:04 yes, that's what profiled probably does Oct 08 09:10:04 and this will work... Oct 08 09:10:23 PA doesn't decide *anything* Oct 08 09:10:32 there's no "nokia processing module" Oct 08 09:11:59 there's probably just a hard compiled-in default in profiled (if that's actually the system that plays ringtone) to /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav, a file that's supposed to be ALWAYS there Oct 08 09:12:57 so if PA fails to playback whatever profiled asks PA to playback, profiled asks PA to playback /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav instead Oct 08 09:13:39 there is nokia PA music module Oct 08 09:13:54 which doing some processing on music files Oct 08 09:13:56 but generally profiled NEVER should ask PA to play any ringtone that's not in /home/user/.local/share/sounds/*.WAV Oct 08 09:14:06 yes Oct 08 09:14:20 but we do not know when that music hook is called Oct 08 09:14:32 huh? Oct 08 09:16:25 when your /home/ partition is not mounted or whatever, then ringtone playback will probably fail, or fallback to some emergency tome playback of some file form rootfs Oct 08 09:16:55 s/tome/tone/ Oct 08 09:16:55 DocScrutinizer05 meant: when your /home/ partition is not mounted or whatever, then ringtone playback will probably fail, or fallback to some emergency tone playback of some file form rootfs Oct 08 09:17:24 that emergency fallback ringtone, if existing at all, is Nokia Tune for sure Oct 08 09:18:44 IroN900:~# locate NokiaTune Oct 08 09:18:46 /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav Oct 08 09:18:47 /usr/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac Oct 08 09:19:29 in this case PA _might_ actially "decide" to playback an .aac ringtone Oct 08 09:19:36 actually* Oct 08 09:19:57 since PA picks plugins according to filetype of source Oct 08 09:20:18 for .aac this may fail Oct 08 09:20:26 for ringtones Oct 08 09:21:29 if somebody messed up PA config, regarding placement of plugins for example. Figue: /home not mounted -> /opt not mounted -> PA aAC plugin not available Oct 08 09:21:50 only if some fool decided to optify PA plugins Oct 08 09:24:35 however the decision to playback /usr/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac is done by profiled Oct 08 09:24:54 I'm grabbing Maemo Ubuntu Lucid Desktop virtual SDK image but I've noticed there was an issue. Who maintains: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com ? Oct 08 09:25:01 the decision to fail on doing this is done ba PA when it can't access AAC plugin Oct 08 09:25:58 psycho_oreos: basically me Oct 08 09:26:45 in that SDK image is bug!!!! Oct 08 09:26:47 what issue? Oct 08 09:26:57 DocScrutinizer05, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z <-- that seems to give me corrupted content error. Oct 08 09:27:06 it cause that all deb packages are compiled with thumb2 Oct 08 09:27:25 look at ML archive how to fix that before using scratchbox sdk!!! Oct 08 09:27:28 Pali: DAMN! :-S Oct 08 09:27:35 Oh yeah I'm running Firefox 24.0 Oct 08 09:27:48 Oh crap :/ Oct 08 09:28:03 fix is simple... Oct 08 09:28:15 * psycho_oreos now hunts in ML archive. Oct 08 09:28:27 Thanks for the heads up! Oct 08 09:28:51 psycho_oreos: Pali: "we" didn't touch that image since ~3 years Oct 08 09:29:21 so any problems or content corruption are either legacy or transient Oct 08 09:29:29 or a problem at your end Oct 08 09:30:07 DocScrutinizer05, yeah I'm well aware the image would be ancient. Though I had an issue trying to download that file, though on skeiron.org it works. Oct 08 09:30:36 on skeiron it doesn't have that IMEI protection Oct 08 09:30:50 and no CDS Oct 08 09:31:09 the akamai servers sometimes have corrupted cache Oct 08 09:31:17 some of them Oct 08 09:31:27 Well yeah that too, but besides that. :) (in fact IMEI was easily circumvented with the available photos of N900 scattered on the web). Oct 08 09:31:39 Hmm yeah that reminds me.. grrr Oct 08 09:31:44 some browsers blow chunks with "content disposition" Oct 08 09:31:49 ~lart akamai servers Oct 08 09:31:49 * infobot whips out a shotgun, trudges over to akamai servers, and goes postal Oct 08 09:32:54 I'm gonna grab it from skeiron for now, looking into that thumb2 errata. There's two bugfixes I guess which may need to be compiled along with any packages to be made with scratchbox VM Oct 08 09:33:25 seems recent firefox again introduced that "protection" that causes download of stuff from akamai to fail with "double content disposition" or whatever Oct 08 09:34:44 I recall having to run through that entire process with you awhile ago. Simply using specified akamai's mirror (via DNS or whatever it was) it worked. I'm not going to bother fixing that up for getting just one file. lol Oct 08 09:35:04 ok Oct 08 09:35:27 I'll need to also keep a mental note of that, bloody akamai servers. Oct 08 09:35:52 could you however please do a `host -a tablets-dev.nokia.com`|pastebinit ? Oct 08 09:36:45 oops Oct 08 09:37:29 host tablets-dev.nokia.com | pastebinit Oct 08 09:38:03 http://privatepaste.com/ac5fba1ace Oct 08 09:38:53 http://sprunge.us/jiUR Oct 08 09:39:05 I did host -a, oh well. Oct 08 09:39:08 please without -a Oct 08 09:39:36 http://sprunge.us/UNRi Oct 08 09:40:14 thanks Oct 08 09:40:50 No worries. I bet that was the same host that caused the exact same issue but with another file or whatever last time round. Oct 08 09:41:06 quite possible Oct 08 09:41:18 nobody is servicing those akamai servers anymore Oct 08 09:41:24 they are "orphaned" Oct 08 09:41:57 eventually they will all end like wirelessmodemapi.com Oct 08 09:42:00 *shakes head* The irony is that someone still has to pay for those services. Oct 08 09:42:11 *nod* Oct 08 09:43:06 Host wirelessmodemapi.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) <--- I guess that site is dead now. Oct 08 09:43:43 .. or maybe still running but not using that domain name.. just only in IP form. Oct 08 09:43:46 the DNS is dead now, the IP/box still 'online' but zombified Oct 08 09:43:57 Hah! Oct 08 09:44:01 yes, exactly Oct 08 09:44:24 so 'somebody' still paying for it Oct 08 09:44:43 despite it has no DNS anymore, and not answering to connects Oct 08 09:45:14 It'll also be interesting to see akamai will work based on IP addresses. There's no way to view the site in "file mode" and it works transparently. Oct 08 09:45:26 since that 'somebody' now sits in Redmond aiui, I don't really care at all Oct 08 09:46:00 *nod* in either case one can search up through wayback machine to see what the site was like I suppose. Oct 08 09:46:25 alas it was a site with logon Oct 08 09:46:39 so wayback engine only displays the logon screen Oct 08 09:46:54 if anything at all Oct 08 09:47:33 and dang that registartion process been a PITA, done manually by some Nokia dude or whatever Oct 08 09:47:54 *shrugs* If there was some sort of banner available I guess one could dig in deeper to see what the site is about. Oct 08 09:47:57 took several days Oct 08 09:48:15 Registration process? for DNS ownership transferrals? Oct 08 09:48:23 the site had a fileserver sharing the ISI specs Oct 08 09:48:31 Ahh. Oct 08 09:48:46 no, like "login username: login password:" Oct 08 09:49:51 kinda similar to the IMEI protection on tabletsdev, just more individual to the user account Oct 08 09:49:55 http://archive.is/5zQgz <--- google to the rescue!. Though yeah I can see that it was once nokia stuff. Oct 08 09:50:24 yeah, useless, see right side Oct 08 09:51:28 Saved from http://web.archive.org/web/20091207015440/http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ LOL Oct 08 09:51:49 At least the link was far shorter, heh. http://foolab.org/node/7888 Oct 08 09:52:11 I guess all the ISI related stuff maybe MohammadAG has a copy. :x Oct 08 09:55:50 this is not moh Oct 08 09:55:57 this is another mohammad Oct 08 09:56:18 I have _some_ of the stuff copied Oct 08 09:56:35 dunno if I ever managed to get _all_ the stuff Oct 08 09:56:43 all the available versions Oct 08 09:57:13 Oh :d my bad. I thought it might have been him heh. Oct 08 09:57:44 afaik mag never looked into ISI Oct 08 09:58:01 MohammadAG: did you ever look into ISI? :-) Oct 08 09:58:34 psycho_oreos: your last link is a nice find anyway Oct 08 09:59:50 *shrugs* Somehow I thought it might have been him because of the name (well yes I could be blamed for being naive because Mohammad is a common name in Arabic land), then the locality (Egypt) and then stuff about Arabic language which I happen to see mag did some photos or screenshots of Arabic input on N900 iinm. Oct 08 10:00:10 Hehe cheers. :) I guess it's the power of google-fu. ;) Oct 08 10:01:19 Ahh shite.. I see where I've went wrong. Oct 08 10:01:28 *facepalms and laughs at self* Oct 08 10:01:37 http://www.google.de/search?q=mohammadag :-) Oct 08 10:02:28 ~seen pupnik Oct 08 10:02:31 pupnik was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 739d 10h 11m 45s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. Oct 08 10:02:36 I have Wireless Modem API G1 V2 10w49.zip, Wireless Modem API G2 V1 10w49.zip, Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip and Wireless Modem API G2 V3 11w25.zip Oct 08 10:02:49 woddy: this not going to change, eh? Oct 08 10:02:50 but those are too recent to be of value for the N900 :( Oct 08 10:02:55 DocScrutinizer05: haha I know Oct 08 10:03:01 :/ Oct 08 10:03:12 DocScrutinizer05: you know what happened to hi Oct 08 10:03:13 m Oct 08 10:03:20 yes, he asked for a ban Oct 08 10:03:32 ? oO Oct 08 10:03:35 MohammadAG, no, I haven't tbh :P Oct 08 10:03:42 mag = Mohammad Abu Guyyev (hopefully I didn't get his name wrong). It was obvious that it suddenly dawned on me. His handle would obviously be based on his real name. bah! Oct 08 10:03:42 dunno about his health, he had some severe problems Oct 08 10:03:59 Garbeyyeh :P Oct 08 10:04:08 Sorry :( Oct 08 10:04:27 You're excused, no one except us arabs gets it right :P Oct 08 10:04:56 hi moh! :-) Oct 08 10:04:57 You should see Israelis say it, they kind of gurgle with weird words till I say it :p Oct 08 10:05:03 hey DocScrutinizer05 :D Oct 08 10:05:03 Though it would somewhat be offensive I suppose in certain cultures if you misspelt a person's name. Oct 08 10:05:37 why, I for one wouldn't expect a person who doesn't know the language of my name to spell it right Oct 08 10:06:07 way more problematic is the gender issue, nobody gets it right Oct 08 10:06:25 Yeah Oct 08 10:06:33 I for one have NFC about northern names and the associated gender Oct 08 10:06:39 I was about to cheat by seeing if I could find the exact name through your submitted patches or something. :) a-la-copy-and-pasta. heh, I guess I decided to type it out and hope it was right (which was wrong). :/ Oct 08 10:06:42 some names go for both genders too Oct 08 10:07:17 petition to change NFC to NFI so as not to confuse with Near Field Communication Oct 08 10:07:55 Heh a common three letter acronym I guess is up in arms. Oct 08 10:08:21 If anyone has any wirelessmodem docs other than the 4 I already have, please speak up :) Oct 08 10:08:37 although I doubt anyone has any Oct 08 10:08:59 That other Mohammad guy may have it I suppose. I personally have none. Oct 08 10:09:33 Also.. another person here said that he has some. :> Oct 08 10:11:10 jonwil: I have something in notebook :-) Oct 08 10:12:33 what do you have? :) Oct 08 10:14:10 psycho_oreos, the one associated with the linux ML? Oct 08 10:14:42 MohammadAG, I have no clue lol, I just stumbled upon a person's blog whom I mistaken that person as you. Oct 08 10:15:24 http://archive.is/5zQgz Oct 08 10:15:33 http://foolab.org/ <-- fyi it was that. Oct 08 10:15:39 ooh Oct 08 10:15:43 sorry Oct 08 10:15:55 http://foolab.org/node/7888 Oct 08 10:16:02 Ahh yeah that specifically. Oct 08 10:16:31 MohammadAG: how's life? Oct 08 10:18:08 cool, that guy has a reverse-engineered header file for libomap3camd (N9xx camera blob for MeeGo/Mer/etc) Oct 08 10:22:36 I doubt anyone outside Nokiua has the wilressmodemapi documents that will help for the N900 :( Oct 08 10:24:21 jonwil: MickeyL used those available on wirelessmodemapi plus the ophono stuff to implement fsogsmd Oct 08 10:24:27 ofono* Oct 08 10:24:58 ofono always got all the sekrit info from Nokia they needed Oct 08 10:25:21 which kinda *****SUUUUCKS****** Oct 08 10:26:47 same with meego which even got sourcecode in a week we didn't get for maemo after 4 years of asking "PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE!" Oct 08 10:27:53 and then Nokia wondered why several very productive people felt pissed and turned back at Nokia Oct 08 10:28:45 self destruction at its finest Oct 08 10:29:22 jonwil: do not know Oct 08 10:30:16 docscrutinizer05: you tried to get bme sources... did you ever looked into bme? Oct 08 10:31:19 sure, we analyzed what it does, via strace etc. I never had a look at the sources, but stskeeps did and he told me I definitely don't want to look at those sources, they are toxic Oct 08 10:32:15 but then again, he got those sources, at a time when he wasn't Nokia employee iinm Oct 08 10:32:21 neither ofono nor fsogsmd have anything for a number of the interesting ISI calls (some of the SIM calls for example) Oct 08 10:33:02 err ofono supposed to have a comprehensive working set of ISI calls to make BB5 behave Oct 08 10:33:20 same for fsogsmd Oct 08 10:33:32 I think these are functions not required for working device but which the Fremantle stuff uses Oct 08 10:33:39 i.e. ofono doesn't need these calls Oct 08 10:33:47 but Fremantle does Oct 08 10:33:57 what the heck is fremantle using that is not needed? Oct 08 10:34:03 except GPS Oct 08 10:34:46 well one of the things is the underlying ISI message that handles com.nokia.phone.sim.get_service_provider_info Oct 08 10:34:59 Fremantle uses it Oct 08 10:35:04 but ofono and fsogsmd dont Oct 08 10:35:44 Thats just the one I can think of off the top of my head Oct 08 10:35:50 docscrutinizer05: did somebody decoded what info bme storing into CAL? Oct 08 10:36:07 and is there info what all and how is stored in CAL? Oct 08 10:36:28 not afaik Oct 08 10:36:28 jonwil: you already decoded some parts of data in CAL... Oct 08 10:36:42 ... do you have some documentation? Oct 08 10:36:42 bme storing BS to CAL Oct 08 10:36:44 I didn't decode BME in CAL no Oct 08 10:37:03 not only BME... but any other parts? Oct 08 10:37:35 jonwil: com.nokia.phone.sim.get_service_provider_info most likely just gets info about SMS MX Oct 08 10:37:47 from SIM Oct 08 10:37:51 nope Oct 08 10:38:22 what does wireshark say? Oct 08 10:38:57 you know there are wireshark ISI dissectors for phonet? Oct 08 10:39:04 I can see the value returned by com.nokia.phone.sim.get_service_provider_info (and by the underlying packet) but there is no info on what the numbers actually mean Oct 08 10:39:20 in wireshark? Oct 08 10:39:35 no, via dbus-send or dbus-monitor Oct 08 10:39:46 hmm yeah Oct 08 10:39:52 there are more wireshard isi plugins... Oct 08 10:40:05 can you save link of last version to infobot? Oct 08 10:40:19 I don't even know last version Oct 08 10:40:33 or at least one working version :-) Oct 08 10:40:39 mompls Oct 08 10:41:45 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1027338#post1027338 here you are, that's my most recent info Oct 08 10:42:48 so yeah there are isi calls the stock Nokia setup is making that are not covered or documented by any of the wirelessmodemapi documents I have or by ofono or fsogsmd Oct 08 10:44:08 yes Oct 08 10:46:53 As for CAL, what I know about it is covered by http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2012-July/028923.html and http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2012-August/028926.html Oct 08 10:48:47 hi what is the original size of the rootfs partition on maemo ? Oct 08 10:49:03 on n900 i mean Oct 08 10:51:13 228M Oct 08 10:52:30 hard to tell since it's ubifs which is compressing, so depending on tool you ask to tell you size, you can get quite different sizes Oct 08 10:52:50 the physical size is around what psycho_oreos said Oct 08 10:53:42 sorry for spam Oct 08 10:53:45 I sort of don't see why there's a need to know that. iinm rootfs sits on one chip. Oct 08 10:53:45 IroN900:~# cat /proc/mtd Oct 08 10:53:46 dev: size erasesize name Oct 08 10:53:48 mtd0: 00020000 00020000 "bootloader" Oct 08 10:53:49 mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config" Oct 08 10:53:51 mtd2: 00040000 00020000 "log" Oct 08 10:53:52 mtd3: 00200000 00020000 "kernel" Oct 08 10:53:54 mtd4: 00200000 00020000 "initfs" Oct 08 10:53:55 mtd5: 0fb40000 00020000 "rootfs" Oct 08 10:54:31 and yes, you don't need to know this Oct 08 10:54:40 usually Oct 08 10:54:57 * psycho_oreos wonders if someone borked their setup hence needing that sort of info. Oct 08 10:55:05 df and du are showing larger numbers Oct 08 10:55:13 psycho_oreos, i ve got an issue booting my N900; i jsut remember that like 2 years ago when i was using the phone i made tons of symlink from / /lib ... to spare some place in this partition Oct 08 10:55:30 ouch Oct 08 10:55:41 ~optification Oct 08 10:55:42 optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" Oct 08 10:55:56 I was about to say that lol. optification ftw. Oct 08 10:56:25 it's not exactly trivial to determine which libs are needed during early boot where eMMC aka /home aka /opt isn't available yet Oct 08 10:57:49 DocScrutinizer05, yeah thats it i moved some files from nand to emmc then with flasher-3.5 ... remember now :) Oct 08 10:57:59 e.g when you optify some PA plugins (me looking at Pali) then the shaking hands video during boot will load a PA that breaks since it doesn't find the needed plugins. This can't autocure and needs a PA restart when /opt is finally available Oct 08 10:57:59 I'd never touch /lib. There's things like /lib/firmware which contains firmwares for various devices onboard N900. Shifting that /lib to some other place where kernel cannot access can result in some pretty nasty effects. Oct 08 10:59:33 pretty sure i foloow a guide on the forum; andthis happens only with uboot/backupmenu .. maybe somekind of timeout around needed libs and mounting emmc Oct 08 10:59:42 (space key issue sorry) Oct 08 10:59:51 Oh yeah not to mention /lib/modules/`uname -r` : Loads of drivers sit in there (ahem kernel modules). Oct 08 10:59:51 don't even think about doing "optification" aka moving stuff from NAND to eMMC when you don't know *exactly* what you're doing. You definitely will mess up your system Oct 08 11:01:02 DocScrutinizer05, yeah i got the exact issue when switching from original PR1.3 to pwnieexpress and now when "evolving" from pwnieexpress to cssu Oct 08 11:01:16 pretty sure the thing in common is backupmenu Oct 08 11:01:25 no Oct 08 11:01:48 this whole topic is pretty much unrelated to backupmenu Oct 08 11:02:04 goot 30Meg free in rootfs will check later by mouting with flasher whee i can free space Oct 08 11:02:10 ok thanks Oct 08 11:02:20 cssu is a patchset on top of maemo PR1.3, NOT on top of anything else Oct 08 11:02:54 it definitely won't work on top of e.g. pwnie Oct 08 11:03:08 I'd consider reflash and start from scratch, building up to CSSU. I'd never install CSSU on the rootfs of the actual maemo setup. In fact I have had a maemo chroot environment made for pwnie-express setup. Oct 08 11:03:37 err sorry I meant pwnie-express to maemo base. Oct 08 11:05:03 The other huge problem is that pwnie express I'm sure is largely unmaintained for N900. Oct 08 11:05:10 yeah in worst case scenario will do that (lack free time atm). tanks guys and sorry for disturbing i was not using really this phone since some times now Oct 08 11:06:03 psycho_oreos, pwnie express is just PR1.3 with additional sec softwares added out of any repos/apt Oct 08 11:06:05 iirc Oct 08 11:06:39 they just copy them to /opt/pentest or somewhere else and added some desktop icons for hildon Oct 08 11:06:52 troulouliou_dev, yes of course at the time. I think they also had their own wl12xx injection drivers, etc. Though the bottom line is that CSSU updates are far newer and replaces far more stuff than pwnie express. Oct 08 11:07:39 *shrugs* been awhile since I last heard of pwnie express let alone it's setup process. At any given rate I wouldn't have installed on the rootfs of my maemo setup. Oct 08 11:07:40 psycho_oreos, yes i removed the pinning they set on "their" kernel and upgraded to the cssu one Oct 08 11:08:15 lol, somebody sending a mail to council with header "Dear MohammadAG" Oct 08 11:08:59 They probably thought MohammadAG was working for the council. ;) Oct 08 11:10:06 "suggestions" for CSSU Oct 08 11:10:36 i also noticed a little bug in cssu but it was maybe there earlier, when i m using blutooth in my car to listen music from mediabox and maybe others softwares, the N900 do not send anything when the wifi bleedingedge driver is in use Oct 08 11:10:47 which are actually complaints about kbd keysize in portrait mode, and a invalid complaint about icon arrangement in portrait Oct 08 11:10:57 need to switch to stock wifi or better shut downwifi Oct 08 11:11:50 hah, BT not working with bleeding edge WLAN drivers, that would be a rather funny bug report Oct 08 11:12:05 troulouliou_dev, from hardware perspective, wireless and bluetooth shares the same frequency (roughly) as well on N900 virtually the same antenna. It wouldn't be a surprise if bleeding edge driver was in use whilst one uses the bluetooth. Oct 08 11:12:19 might actually be possible that coexistence in WLAN suppresses BT indefinitely Oct 08 11:12:34 DocScrutinizer05, I own the council Oct 08 11:12:38 no one knows that Oct 08 11:12:53 particularly council never knew ;-P Oct 08 11:12:54 We do now. :> *just kidding* Oct 08 11:13:06 psycho_oreos, seems logical thanks Oct 08 11:13:22 DocScrutinizer05, yes, the guy must have some serious connections to have discovered it Oct 08 11:13:36 oh, btw, council will decease in 3.5 weeks Oct 08 11:13:40 fun phone, never dies :) Oct 08 11:13:47 oh really? Oct 08 11:14:03 I'm not affiliated with the council in any way, hate messages should be directed at DocScrutinizer05 Oct 08 11:14:13 thank you for your support :) Oct 08 11:14:19 *chuckles* Oct 08 11:14:24 no, i'm not coucil anymore in 3 weeks Oct 08 11:15:03 The captain always goes down with the ship Oct 08 11:15:07 and it seems nobody will be council in 4 weeks Oct 08 11:15:12 he doesn't jump off half a week before :P Oct 08 11:15:28 but seriously, what happened? Oct 08 11:15:43 pretty normal election pending Oct 08 11:15:43 troulouliou_dev, I was thinking that bleeding edge drivers may also not corporate with certain aspects of power outputs. Even if they share the same antenna, etc the wlan doesn't really compensate for bluetooth because it doesn't know that bluetooth exists and is sharing on the same lines as wlan. Oct 08 11:15:53 nobody cares Oct 08 11:16:16 o.O Oct 08 11:17:15 What.. so ultimately maemo.org will be wholly donation driven with no councils and no plans to improvise? Oct 08 11:17:34 nobody joins council meetings, nobody takes notice of qwazix' election announcement Oct 08 11:18:08 maemo council chair doesn't respond at all to anything Oct 08 11:18:44 no candidates for next election show up, nobody to send out tokens or anything Oct 08 11:19:04 and I refuse to do this *again* Oct 08 11:19:55 and I couldn't blame qwazix when he also refuses to do this again Oct 08 11:20:31 Damn, I was under the wrong impression that it seems the council has been somewhat going smoothly apart from issue with that treasurer whom has gone awol. Oct 08 11:20:37 we got council chair chem|st who *should* take care, and we got merlin1991, both ignore the topic completely Oct 08 11:21:09 psycho_oreos: that's HiFo board, not maemo council Oct 08 11:21:36 Ahh *facepalms self*. Yes.. right.. my bad Oct 08 11:22:34 I managed last maemo council election, I managed HiFo resurrection and re-election, and now I'm terminally fed up Oct 08 11:22:40 Maybe the people on the HiFo board can do something about the existing council members whom fail to enact on something. :d Oct 08 11:25:55 oh, I forgot: I managed election of HiFo council and unification of both councils Oct 08 11:26:21 since evrybody was mad about that happening Oct 08 11:27:01 not that everything got accomplished, public interest is zilch Oct 08 11:27:18 in HiFo, maemo council and HiFo council Oct 08 11:27:23 and elections Oct 08 11:27:28 and meetings Oct 08 11:28:07 so I'll just watch maemo die in 4 weeks Oct 08 11:30:22 ah when playing mp3 via OMP then PA using 70% CPU :-( Oct 08 11:30:31 another bug in PA... Oct 08 11:30:55 why on the earth got idea to create PA???? Oct 08 11:31:01 I came to the conclusion that everybody loves maemo to be 100% community driven, but only to utter requests for stuff getting done by some fairy for users. Nobody interested in the fact that a entity needs a management Oct 08 11:33:12 why nokia did not created closed alsa pluings, but closed PA plugins?? Oct 08 11:33:19 psycho_oreos: the people on HiFo board are busy sorting their "own" issues with bank accounts and who does what and when and how Oct 08 11:34:25 psycho_oreos: and in 4 weeks it goes pooof and no more council at duty and thus basically no more maemo Oct 08 11:35:32 and I officially announce that I fail on my council duties to help on organizing new council elections Oct 08 11:36:19 I'm not interested in a maemo community that exists only because I reanimate it Oct 08 11:37:01 IOW I quit my role as maemo community cardio pacemaker Oct 08 11:37:35 why skype using 12 processes??? Oct 08 11:37:41 on n900? Oct 08 11:37:48 plaI couldn't care less Oct 08 11:37:55 Pali: ^^^ Oct 08 11:40:12 I guess it will become more of a mess. Not that it's gonna affect you if you are going to resign. To me it sort of seems like there's lack of communication within the council. Whilst one is getting all burnt out from holding the site up, there's not much support that could be offered to alleviate the issue. Oct 08 11:41:03 holding the site up is only one of the duties of council Oct 08 11:41:50 when nobody is interested in council and what it does, then nobody should be surprised when eventually site goes down Oct 08 11:44:33 without council there's basically nobody acting on behalf of "the maemo community" and things will go south pretty quickly Oct 08 11:45:42 maybe HiFo just seizes control over the infra and continues doing with it whatever they like - when they find time to care about mameo infra technical aspects at all Oct 08 11:48:04 Hi, is there any good app, to blacklist numbers ? I don't want to receive calls from a certain numbers Oct 08 11:48:15 Especially some bank numbers Oct 08 11:48:25 So there was a council election after June 2013? Oct 08 11:48:35 huh? Oct 08 11:49:03 I was trying to find more info about council stuff: http://maemo.org/community/council/councils_become_finally_one/ Oct 08 11:49:59 The wiki certainly looks quite outdated :/ 5 members from community. When the two councils merged, it became 4 members. Oct 08 11:50:43 yes, we have 4 official mambers in the unified council now Oct 08 11:50:48 members* Oct 08 11:51:07 and the council term ends in 3.5weeks Oct 08 11:51:39 http://maemo.org/community/council/q4_2013_community_council_election_announcement/ Oct 08 11:51:52 Is there any good app, to blacklist incoming call numbers ? Oct 08 11:51:59 Ahh yes I was about to ask that. Oct 08 11:54:19 I for one intend to stay out of politics and do my bit for the community with my reverse engineering and software skills Oct 08 11:54:45 council is not politics Oct 08 11:55:00 council is about *work* to be done Oct 08 11:55:22 ok Oct 08 11:57:26 when there's no more council, nobbody will decide which new maintainers to grant on packages, which new projects to allow on garage, which developers to get access to extras uploads Oct 08 11:58:30 nobody will manage the infra anymore, on the management level, not on the sysop / maintainer level Oct 08 11:59:09 ok so its about organization rather than politics Oct 08 11:59:11 got ya Oct 08 12:00:05 I might keep my role as maemo admin manager as long as there is no new council, but when I decide to quit, nobody will appoint a successor for my position Oct 08 12:00:30 http://maemo.org/community/council/2012-12-14_meeting_minutes/ <--- old but gives one an insight I suppose. Oct 08 12:02:42 Anyone knows a good app to blacklist incoming phone numbers ? Oct 08 12:03:02 We heard you the first time.. Oct 08 12:04:40 DocScrutinizer05, is there a possibility (call me crazy but..) somehow invite those two other members whom stepped down during the council merges to come back up and see if they can try and re-invigorate the council? Oct 08 12:05:20 I also see the latest thread on upcoming elections, only two of the four people "signed off". Oct 08 12:06:24 yes, no reaction whatsoever from the other two Oct 08 12:06:41 Hmm.. :/ Oct 08 12:07:11 You mean the other two whom didn't sign off or the two members whom stepped down? Oct 08 12:07:18 .. or even both? :/ Oct 08 12:08:05 nah, the two who stepped down are actually pretty active, just not for council anymore, despite they got a honor membership status Oct 08 12:09:37 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-10-04.log.html Oct 08 12:09:42 I personally reckon it might be an idea to try and get those whom stepped down to come back on again. Even though it can seem like it's overkill but at least maybe they maybe able to help you from getting burnt out. Oct 08 12:09:52 Ta, reading that now. Oct 08 12:15:23 Seems like sixwheeledbeast is pretty active at the meeting. Oct 08 12:15:52 well, maybe I'm just in a dommsday mood and some brillant motivated 6 new maemo council candidates stap up in a week or two Oct 08 12:15:54 chem|st didn't respond and merlin1991 finally responded. Oct 08 12:16:15 yeah, that's pretty representative Oct 08 12:18:08 and there has to be done wuite a bit of organizing for elections behind the scenes, to get tokens / ballots sent out Oct 08 12:18:09 I wouldn't blame you for being burnt out, I have noticed at times you have called out for help with various issues. Though yeah it just seems like if nothing is going to change after the election (and it seems like you have served for quite sometime as well, notably during the migration days where it was most likely hectic.) it seems as though one could almost be willing to give up the entire thing. Oct 08 12:19:46 dang, doomsday* and step* up Oct 08 12:20:15 and quite* and I'm out now Oct 08 12:21:27 woody once "promised" a working karma and election engine based on karma, for the next elections. seems that stalled as well Oct 08 12:21:42 o.O I bet freemangordon has been nominated. :D Oct 08 12:22:27 woody? Oct 08 12:22:50 I also lack to spot the electon announcement on ML Oct 08 12:23:54 yes woody Oct 08 12:25:21 Ahh I don't know who that person is. Oct 08 12:25:30 he fixed much of the karma stuff in midgard, and he provided the web frontend to set up new elections. Alas it lacks a few bits like proper karma based token database creation, primarily due to lack of tmo based correct karma Oct 08 12:25:31 psycho_oreos: elections are mandatory, don't know why it would need a 'vote' on if we hold elections?! I tried to get info on Nokia/Jolla conversations and it seems noone has a clue but Rob Oct 08 12:26:18 chem|st: nobody "votes" on elections Oct 08 12:26:39 I asked for thoughts regarding includance of jolla into maemo.org without asking much of jolla Oct 08 12:26:51 chem|st: they just need to get DONE, and one rule says they get announced by council CHAIR Oct 08 12:28:40 chem|st, *shrugs* I'm sorta trying to get a better grasp on how it works. I was sort of under the impression the elections are based on community (well those with karma of course) voting. Oct 08 12:28:58 DocScrutinizer05: exactly, by the time I read it (as I was afk for 5 days) all mails were sent and posts were made, no need to comment anything?=! So it is my fault to not have that in my timeline and I am sorry for that. OTOH we are nothing like a governmental institution and thereby a day or two behind such things isn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Oct 08 12:29:18 psycho_oreos: I am speaking of the election announcement not election Oct 08 12:30:27 chem|st, right well not saying that there needed to be votes. I was just looking at those who have signatures below on the election announcement. It was somewhat a bit unusual it was not signed on behalf of the council but rather by two members. Oct 08 12:31:21 yeah that was mistaken by qwazix I guess... Oct 08 12:31:29 no way Oct 08 12:31:32 DocScrutinizer05, ahh interesting (about karma stuff). I've yet to find how much karma I got. LOL (probably 0 or -1, etc). Oct 08 12:32:14 all announcements should read the name of the announcer + obotc but who cares?! Oct 08 12:32:38 obotc? Oct 08 12:32:48 it is not art or something (on behalf of... Oct 08 12:32:59 Ahh. Oct 08 12:34:25 Better to ask just in case if I get it mistaken. Oct 08 12:34:53 yeah, sure. I just think we rather should adhere to existing rules whenever possible Oct 08 12:35:18 one such rule is "CHAIR annoces elections" Oct 08 12:36:22 and while I agree that a few days delay are almost usual, I think there's no good reason to ignore that rule all together Oct 08 12:38:30 and it's not just about announcing elections, they don't happen by just announcing them, they need to get managed Oct 08 12:39:22 So what is a good way to get involved in admin/council stuff if one is mostly a lurker on tmo and irc and a happy user of an n900 and hasn't contributed much in terms of actual dev work? Oct 08 12:39:56 and you can both on that management as well, sending out tokens to a random number of community members or just allowing everybody to vote, but that's again not adhering to the rules then Oct 08 12:40:52 kolp: you should probably read the meeting minutes of council, thus getting an idea what it's all about. Oct 08 12:44:16 Yes, but I've read a couple of times that all that is stuff for 'trusted community members', which of course makes sense. But if I have no dev contributions it's difficult to gain that status ;) Oct 08 12:45:14 You're certainly not alone there. :) I also have zilch dev contributions. Maybe a few bug reports here and there but that's about it. Oct 08 12:47:40 I neither have remarkable dev contributions Oct 08 12:47:49 kolp: drafting ideas how to get the community back to speed - contribute to discussions/meetings with your knowledge, help testing cssu-testing stuff with the guys in #maemo-ssu Oct 08 12:47:58 it's not a prerequisite for council Oct 08 12:48:45 testing cssu is definzely not a job of council members Oct 08 12:50:24 Though I guess it's in some ways to show that you are committed to helping in the community. Oct 08 12:50:27 I think neither RevdKathy nor MentalistTraceur been any sort of developer or tester Oct 08 12:50:47 kolp: I grew into it with talk and being alpha/beta tester, then I was asked to maintain cssu-stable and talked reggie into giving talk.mo away with me being his replacement and oops Oct 08 12:51:38 DocScrutinizer05: it is about how to become a recognized member without being a dev Oct 08 12:51:43 that's all pretty much unrelated to council Oct 08 12:51:51 aah, k Oct 08 12:52:02 it is all pretty much related to council! Oct 08 12:52:55 now that explains why we don't see you on meetings Oct 08 12:53:26 without doing betatesting and brainstorming, asking to moderate some subforums I would never have gotten that deep into this mess ;) Oct 08 12:54:56 * kolp notices that he even has some karma... :) Oct 08 12:55:24 Yup same here, double digits as well. *frowns* Oct 08 12:55:47 kolp: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work Oct 08 12:56:17 The karma looks wrong, though Oct 08 12:56:18 Now.. I still need to find that bloody link with all the current council and their photos. I think there was something on that page that would give me some wanted info.. Oct 08 12:56:43 Ahh there it is... DocScrutinizer05 to the rescue. Oct 08 12:57:05 I wouldn't blame karma if you have something to show your status! :D Oct 08 12:58:32 Elections are open to community members with an account over 3 months old and karma of 10 or more. Candidates can be anyone with a karma of 100 or above. Oct 08 12:59:05 Looks like I miss the mark for being a candidate haha.. not that I was willing but curious. Oct 08 12:59:17 Wasn't 'thanks' part of karma at some point? Oct 08 12:59:44 karma will be calcualted by hand if there is not enough in th database yet, as tmo karma does not work for some reason Oct 08 12:59:50 And why do I have karma for 'Bugzilla reported' if a search on b.m.o reveals I have reported zarro? Oct 08 13:00:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma <-- they're weighted. Oct 08 13:00:09 kolp: a comment counts as well Oct 08 13:00:33 chem|st: That's a separate part Oct 08 13:00:42 You even get 1 karma point for having garage.maemo.org account. Oct 08 13:01:25 Err no my bad. Oct 08 13:01:29 * psycho_oreos takes that back. Oct 08 13:02:58 hmmm, I only have 73 karma so I am ineligible for council in any case even if I wanted to participate Oct 08 13:03:37 chem|st: we can't calculate karma by hand for 10k users Oct 08 13:04:10 I think automatic karma calculation is seriously wrong, at least in my case Oct 08 13:04:43 jonwil, I'd say you are lucky considering like DocScrutinizer05 have in-depth knowledge of things. :) I'm like a small fry compared to you two haha. (Karma: 37) Oct 08 13:05:01 jonwil: defintely not. The karma is broken since it lacks tmo Oct 08 13:05:49 btw I wouldn't be surprised if even my karma right atm doesn't allow me to be candidate Oct 08 13:05:54 I'd say counting 10,000 users and updating their "Thanks!" into karma (database) would probably blow the karma proportions out by a lot. Oct 08 13:06:21 DocScrutinizer05, I'd say you're close to the top (i.e. >100) lol. Oct 08 13:06:43 should be >600 though Oct 08 13:06:58 it been <80 a while back, when even wiki karma was broken Oct 08 13:07:00 Exactly, so why fuss? hahahhaha. lol Oct 08 13:07:54 anyway we can't send out tokens since we have no working karma base to decide who gets a token and who won't Oct 08 13:08:08 Anyhow, I intend to keep working on MCE and maybe hit GPS Oct 08 13:08:12 without tokens no voting, without voting no new council Oct 08 13:08:41 In other words, tokens are given out to user's accounts active for more than 3 months and has karma of 10 or more? Oct 08 13:09:02 yes Oct 08 13:09:28 Ahh I see, so I should be seeing a token but I don't see any. That makes sense. Oct 08 13:10:09 we have ~2 weeks to fix tmo karma and send out tokens Oct 08 13:10:28 I don't see anybody taking care of that problem Oct 08 13:10:49 I reckon someone should get that karma and token (ideally the token first) bit going before the next election starts. Otherwise the current council members would become ultimately the "new" council members because there was no actual vote. Oct 08 13:10:58 I was about to say.. :) Oct 08 13:12:05 see backscroll, I mentioned that woody once said this will be fixed when we need it for next election. It isn't Oct 08 13:12:21 and I CBA to push any longer Oct 08 13:12:36 since I pushed this and whatnot else since ~12 months now Oct 08 13:13:00 Yeah, I now recall that and I also know who woody is now as well after scouring on w.m.o Oct 08 13:13:11 so all the pushing community and everybody else can expect from my side is what i'm just doing: ranting about it Oct 08 13:13:19 and even that i'lll stop now Oct 08 13:14:12 I'll simply lean back and watch the whole thing die Oct 08 13:14:53 ~seen Woody14619 Oct 08 13:14:56 woody14619 <~Woody@66-162-186-66.static.twtelecom.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 25d 19h 21m 27s ago, saying: 'odd... Time to reboot. :)'. Oct 08 13:15:02 sorry but I can't sustain my dedication any longer Oct 08 13:16:41 and I can't blame qwazix when he neither is going to push things Oct 08 13:17:05 I'm quite sure he feels just like me Oct 08 13:31:39 if it is like me maybe all those low karma guys just temporary bought an android phone and will runback to their n900 in a few month/year :) Oct 08 13:44:22 will be too late then Oct 08 13:46:08 I miss mine a little... but the hardware was just too slow, and the screen is bad compared to newer devices Oct 08 13:46:15 but the system was great Oct 08 13:46:30 I notice the maemo community core is bleeding out and currently ~20..50 persons, of which 99% say "no politics" and just do what they like to do, I.E. develop stuff. The rest of "community" are consumers Oct 08 13:46:52 I helped a colleague program some automations on his, it reminded me how much i loved the n900 Oct 08 13:49:05 * DocScrutinizer05 urgently needs a break to avoid suffering a feeling of deep despair Oct 08 13:49:44 that is why we should get jolla on board... without a new hype we will be stuck with those 20 having enough love to do things Oct 08 13:50:12 reminds me to love some building new cssu release soon Oct 08 13:50:40 please don't do same mistake like Rob did. there's nothing to get 2on board" - Jolla clearly stated they are not interested in maemo Oct 08 13:51:24 I know but they are interested in having us become jolla-community and that is what needs to happen Oct 08 13:51:38 But we're not jolla Oct 08 13:51:39 that's nonsense Oct 08 13:51:45 Neither are they maemo Oct 08 13:51:51 the approach we are maemo and we are your community does not work Oct 08 13:51:57 that the only dev ive done for maemo/n900 :http://code.google.com/p/gamekit/issues/detail?id=120&can=1&q=maemo Oct 08 13:52:01 :) Oct 08 13:52:04 exactly, i'm not jolla community and nobody else will become jolla community, no matter what you do Oct 08 13:52:38 I for one intend to keep using my N900 so long as it continues to work Oct 08 13:52:51 jonwil: +1 Oct 08 13:52:54 oh ok so I missunderstood the idea of we adopt jolla as the n9 successor completely? Oct 08 13:52:57 I will never give up on the N900 and Maemo Oct 08 13:53:20 jonwil: that is not asked off of you Oct 08 13:53:22 Well, how does a jolla hype benefit *maemo*? Oct 08 13:53:51 people Oct 08 13:54:00 213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1379321 <--- May seem crap... but better than nothing I hope. Oct 08 13:54:03 active people Oct 08 13:54:04 I don't need 2people" Oct 08 13:54:21 But those people would be interested in jolla, not maemo, or what am I missing? Oct 08 13:54:26 and I don't see any activity of "jolla people" Oct 08 13:54:48 particularly no activity relevant for maemo Oct 08 13:54:54 DocScrutinizer05: go to tmo... Oct 08 13:55:05 nor any relevant activity in maemo, from jolla's POV Oct 08 13:55:35 and particular relevant activity is people setting up repos for jolla and willing to have a look after what we came from Oct 08 13:55:48 maemo.... Oct 08 13:55:57 eh? Oct 08 13:56:31 I read about jolla using rpm as their package manager instead of the maemo's usual routine of deb as package manager. Oct 08 13:56:35 old maemo versions aren't relevant to n900 people but we still keep an eye on things if need be Oct 08 13:56:47 how's anybody who sets up a repo for Jolla (NB we don't even know if that would work at all) going to have a look at maemo stuff? Oct 08 13:57:15 seems I am totally in the wrong place here Oct 08 14:01:07 when your take is "I'm moving on, you better follow2 then maybe yes. We had that with meego, quite some time ago. Many devels abandoned maemo fremantle and developed for meego. When now same shall happen for meego harmattan -> jolla sailfish transition then I guess that doesn't need further support and fostering, it already happened and still happening Oct 08 14:02:27 my n900 shut down mid browsing and wont restart (nokia logo appears and then the screen stays black with backlight on) Oct 08 14:02:30 wat do? :( Oct 08 14:02:33 sailfish however is NOT maemo anymore, and jolla clearly stated that they don't see any link back to maemo OS and maemo community Oct 08 14:02:46 and that happened as nokia tried to build a new meego community elsewhere... jolla said that anyone can start the jolla community, they wont start it nor prevent it to happen Oct 08 14:03:22 mickname: worst case reflash Oct 08 14:03:23 same goes for mer and nitdroid Oct 08 14:03:53 mickname: does it charge? Oct 08 14:04:07 chem|st: yeah, the yellow light pluses Oct 08 14:04:10 *pulses Oct 08 14:04:19 well, you can start a new community any time. You however never can *migrate* a community Oct 08 14:04:21 although the battery was lowish when it "died" Oct 08 14:05:11 does it die after it went blackscreen backlight on? Oct 08 14:05:36 i'm jost not very keen to reflash as i didnt make any system changes before it died so it's hard to believe it would help Oct 08 14:06:01 i think after a while the screen shuts down as in normal powersave Oct 08 14:06:16 im not entirely sure, it doesnt seem to be very consistent Oct 08 14:06:23 charge it for a while and try again Oct 08 14:06:38 mickname: you switched it on? Oct 08 14:06:50 yes :) Oct 08 14:07:17 i'm aware that it can't be turned on while its on the charger Oct 08 14:07:30 huh? Oct 08 14:07:33 it can... but it wont charge during boot Oct 08 14:07:41 it can't be turned OFF completely Oct 08 14:08:05 umm.. if the phone is off, i attach it to charger and try to turn it on it wont start Oct 08 14:08:06 it rather will enter act_dead mode Oct 08 14:08:34 it just displays the dim nokia logo as far as i recall, and has always worked like that Oct 08 14:08:34 try to turn it on when it's NOT on charger Oct 08 14:08:39 yeah i did Oct 08 14:09:24 remove battery for some minutes, put it back together and charge it for at least 30 minutes then unplug and try again booting Oct 08 14:09:52 ok i will try that, i tried removing the battery for a few secs but that didn't help Oct 08 14:10:24 well, that's absolutely incorrect behaviour. When device is on charger, it will "boot up" same moment you plug it to charger, then enter act _dead mode where it *pretends* to be off. Then whe it reached that state you _can_ swtich it on, which causes a reboot to another runlevel where it doesn't pretend to be off Oct 08 14:11:19 i've never managed to turn n900 fully on while attached to a charger Oct 08 14:11:33 just pressing the powerbutton? Oct 08 14:11:37 removing battery when device hasn't shut down completely (will take up to 30s after it looks like it powered down) is dangerous for the filesystem Oct 08 14:12:22 yes, just press power button until the white light on indicator completely bright Oct 08 14:12:26 (2..3s) Oct 08 14:13:32 before removing battery shut device down (power button for 5s, until white light completely dim) then WAIT for 30s Oct 08 14:13:50 is it possible that i have a strange firmware version or something as i've seriously tried turning the phone on while being plugged in during the 4-ish years i've owned it but never have succeeded Oct 08 14:14:16 early powerkernels had that bug Oct 08 14:14:41 i think i have a later powerkernel :-) Oct 08 14:15:37 when you can't power it up when plugged to charger, then probably not recent enough Oct 08 14:17:26 up til I think KP46 the device always enetred act_dead mode when booting up, due to incorrect bootreason bassed from NOLO to kernel Oct 08 14:17:31 passed* Oct 08 14:18:03 on the bright side it at least charged in act_dead mode Oct 08 14:18:39 and you can boot up from battery (when charged) and then plug in the charger when device completely booted Oct 08 14:19:07 okay, i'll try to get the battery fully charged and try gain Oct 08 14:19:16 good plan Oct 08 14:19:17 i know the battery is getting a bit bad Oct 08 14:19:25 its the original Oct 08 14:19:53 thanks for the suggestions Oct 08 14:21:15 once booted you should check your kernel version Oct 08 14:21:18 uname -a Oct 08 14:22:42 does n900 log syslog? Oct 08 14:22:44 if your filesystem got corrupted, boot can take quite a while until screen gets lit (it may do fsck which takes several minutes) Oct 08 14:22:59 when you installed ksyslogd then yes Oct 08 14:23:40 during the "nonresponsive" black backlit screen, i could power it off from the powerbutton with the normal white fadeoutled Oct 08 14:23:50 so its not completely unresponsive Oct 08 14:23:59 i'll report back later :-) Oct 08 14:24:39 yeah, that seems to suggest it's busy with boot and probably fsck in there (or optification) - or simply stuck with something that doesn't allow X11 to come up Oct 08 14:25:03 black screen for a minute or two isn't unheard Oct 08 14:25:58 if it doesn't come back to normal during 30min, after booting and plugging in charger 2 minutes later... Oct 08 14:26:03 you have a problem Oct 08 14:27:43 if you can't log in via ssh and wifi, and you don't feel like messing around with rescueOS (which wouldn't allow to install e.g. ksyslogd), then reflashing is your best bet in that case Oct 08 14:28:39 i have ssh server enabled but if i recall my phone wont automatically connecto to any networks :( Oct 08 14:28:40 and when I say "charger" I mean Nokia original wallwart fastcharger, NOT anything else, NOT PC Oct 08 14:37:02 can I somehow hook up a switch/button to my n900 and listen for the keypress with python? Oct 08 14:41:40 Hello Oct 08 14:46:28 DocScrutinizer05: well, or anything that you know will give at least 1.1A to musb, with a short d+/d- Oct 08 14:50:29 bindi: yes, see hold-button on headset Oct 08 14:51:54 DocScrutinizer05: so easiest way is to get a headset with answer button Oct 08 14:52:12 bindi: eyup Oct 08 14:52:18 there's the stock one Oct 08 14:52:26 that'd be long gone by now lol Oct 08 14:55:18 get a 3.5mm 4 pin plug, connect your switch between base and ring next to base. Leave tip and first ring unconnected Oct 08 14:56:03 or get an arbitrary headset with 3.5mm plug and one button Oct 08 14:56:15 maybe cheaper than a plug Oct 08 14:58:00 oooh, and actually you'd need a 2kR resistor in parallel to your switch when you try DIY, otherwise the AV logic will think you hooked up a TV and will feed video signal to the 3rd ring and not listen to switch Oct 08 15:00:42 ugh Oct 08 15:01:03 * bindi takes notes Oct 08 15:02:26 ah, useful to know. 2k resistor. I have been thinking of making a wired handsfree kit so I can put the microphone in a better place and have push button on the dash then audio routed to radio. Oct 08 15:05:45 well, the 2kR simulates a mic Oct 08 15:06:23 actually I would have to rethink if 2k is the right value, but probably yes Oct 08 15:08:04 in a headset the hold button simply shorts the mic Oct 08 15:14:30 what i'm planning to do with my old n900: place the camera on my doors peephole, and replace the doorbell with an electronic switch that connects to the n900 Oct 08 15:14:46 and notify me when the doorbell is rang Oct 08 15:15:02 possibly take a picture, and/or have a local stream of the camera Oct 08 15:15:06 doable? nuts? :P Oct 08 15:15:51 bindi: Sounds like a fun project :) Oct 08 15:15:55 And sounds doable Oct 08 15:17:29 bindi: sounds more like a RPi thing but well doable Oct 08 15:19:59 DocScrutinizer05: the n9 headset (shipped with) has only stereo on my samsung tablet when I hold the button down Oct 08 15:20:22 never tested other headsets (with mic+button) Oct 08 15:21:34 samsung tablet probably has apple "standard" then. With Gnd on 3rd ring and mic on sleeve :-o Oct 08 15:22:46 apple invented this crap to differnetiate from other standards and have their own headsets sold Oct 08 15:23:22 no sane EE would place mic hot wire on sleeve of a 3.5mm plug Oct 08 15:24:21 it's as nuts as placing GND to inner connector of RCA cinch and the signal to the shielding Oct 08 15:26:17 alas due to whyPhone hype this "standard" gets more and more popular Oct 08 15:28:24 originally the iPods also hat a immersion where the 3.5mm jack sits, so you couldn't plug in "normal" 3.5mm plugs since they had too large diameter Oct 08 15:28:34 s/hat/had/ Oct 08 15:28:34 DocScrutinizer05 meant: originally the iPods also had a immersion where the 3.5mm jack sits, so you couldn't plug in "normal" 3.5mm plugs since they had too large diameter Oct 08 15:29:24 complete bullshit Oct 08 15:31:19 this insanity started long ago with apple computers that had even dangerous 3.5mm plugs that were longer than normal, and thus destroyed other devices when you tried to plug in flush such apple proprietary 3.5mm jack. iPod was "save" since it hat that immersion Oct 08 15:31:31 had* damn! Oct 08 15:31:58 chem|st: yes but then my n900 would be useless :p Oct 08 15:33:04 definitly doable Oct 08 15:33:23 except for that camera at doorspy Oct 08 15:33:30 dunno if that would work Oct 08 15:34:08 will work if you don't have that fisheye thingie in that peephole Oct 08 15:34:25 otherwise I wouldn't know Oct 08 15:34:54 and hey! you can even use accelerometer to detect people knocking the door ;-) Oct 08 15:35:41 and record audio Oct 08 15:35:51 and playback mp3 tunes for doorbell Oct 08 15:38:26 but I think when your N900 is in good condition then you could as well sell it and get a ready made IP cam with trigger input for the money Oct 08 15:39:56 easier to mount, better suited cam for the porpose, comes with IR light usually, power via PoE via UTP/cat5 or dedicated PSU Oct 08 15:41:01 the N900 cam's autofocus will most likely give you headache Oct 08 15:41:20 and the 5MP are overkill that gives you some more headache Oct 08 16:36:46 Yes I agree PoE IP camera at front door. Or even composite camera plugged into TV. It does sound like RPi project. I agree on the TRRS thing too, bloody apple/samsung crap. There's a standard for a reason and most are ignoring it. Oct 08 17:27:25 sooo... i flashed the rootfs on my phone and now it's stuck on the dot-animation Oct 08 17:27:49 wait Oct 08 17:30:59 mickname: still nothing? Oct 08 17:31:07 yup Oct 08 17:31:29 already waited for 10 mins Oct 08 17:31:45 u flashed ootfs only? Oct 08 17:31:58 actually, its seems to be stuck in exactly the same way as before flashinh but this time i can see the dots Oct 08 17:32:01 yup Oct 08 17:32:26 (see discussion ~3h before) Oct 08 17:32:37 oh.. let me see Oct 08 17:32:44 3.5h Oct 08 17:35:21 you guys spoke about lots of stuff, lol.. am even lazy to read all of it. Oct 08 17:35:28 :-) Oct 08 17:35:40 anyway, did the flash succeed? your image is not corrupt somehow? Oct 08 17:35:57 the flasher didn't report any errors Oct 08 17:36:22 and the phone seems to be exactly the sameway as before on boot except this time i can see the dots Oct 08 17:39:47 i don't know. i would confirm if the image is really good. Oct 08 17:40:12 and maybe even flash the whole device, incl emmc Oct 08 18:39:59 flash VANILLA Oct 08 18:40:08 /home corrupted Oct 08 18:41:00 or boot rescueOS and restore /home from a former version Oct 08 18:41:15 ...if you have any backup Oct 08 18:41:46 mickname: ^^^ Oct 08 19:00:42 yeah Oct 08 19:01:17 ï'll try to leave the phone on for like 4-10h to see if it fschks and then try to flash the emmc also :( Oct 08 19:01:29 no backups of course ;) Oct 08 19:15:40 lol mickname. if it hasn't fsck'ed now, any more time won't make any difference. Oct 08 19:16:11 you're just using up battery power, which you need for a successful flash. i hope your device still charges Oct 08 19:25:30 yay Oct 08 19:25:54 1.5 years of updates for my n900! Oct 08 19:36:28 yeah it charges Oct 08 19:52:33 Microsoft Windows version 1.01 can run COMMAND.COM in a window instead of full-screen but I do not remember if Windows 3.x has the same capability. Oct 08 19:54:59 * brolin_empey wanted to tell Tekk_ as a continuation of our conversation in this channel on Friday but he (she?) is no longer present. ☹ Oct 08 19:59:01 Incidentally, (the) Quassel IRC (client) almost seems too newschool for me. ☹ Oct 08 20:03:34 Incidentally, does anyone here have any experience with the AdvanceTC Magic W3 ? Oct 08 20:10:02 Even if Windows 7 for x86-32 performs satisfactorily with only 1 GiB of physical RAM but at least with the page file on fast (NAND) flash memory instead of a slow HDD, the 800×480 display combined with the lack of an integrated hardware keyboard seems like a deal breaker to me. ☹ Oct 08 20:16:17 Heh, I just realised the Bill of Materials for an Intel Atom integrated circuit is an Atom IC BOM, which sounds similar to “atomic bomb”. :-D Oct 08 20:35:18 hehe Oct 08 23:11:14 Hm, does the N9 have cherry, or something cherry-like? Oct 08 23:11:49 hmm, good question Oct 08 23:11:57 actually I think it does Oct 08 23:12:38 I just revived a b0rked N9, and am wondering if I should feed it a SIM Oct 08 23:12:39 since neither maps nor guidance nor a few other services work without you registering some crappy account Oct 08 23:13:06 it however might not rely on SIM anymore Oct 08 23:13:48 It has no wifi yet, either :) Oct 08 23:13:58 I think they now got better means to 100% identify a device (aegis) Oct 08 23:15:38 I guess I have some reading up to do before letting the device out into the wild Oct 08 23:15:50 anyway since thanks to aegis you can't tamper with any cherry-like crap at all, you shouldn't probably worry. either get over it or bin the device Oct 08 23:16:20 send it to me would ya? Oct 08 23:17:25 It's not mine to give away :) Oct 08 23:17:34 oh :( Oct 08 23:17:49 Just reflashed it for its owner Oct 08 23:21:13 The UI seems a bit inconsistent Oct 08 23:22:32 they'll probably soon announce that any cherry like service for MeeGo will be discontinued from the 1.1.2014 :D Oct 08 23:26:23 It's quite a sign when one doesn't feel comfortable inserting a SIM or connecting a device to the intarwebs... Oct 08 23:26:34 I know why I love and prefer the N900... Oct 08 23:27:16 N900 makes you send an sms when you install pr 1.3 Oct 08 23:27:45 "makes you send" / sends* Oct 08 23:28:01 Yes, but at least that's a well-known 'feature' and there's a more or less easy way to disable that Oct 08 23:29:48 hm, how to disable? Oct 08 23:29:50 all nokia phones send a SMS home upon first startup? Oct 08 23:30:03 no? Oct 08 23:30:27 my 5230 symbian did it too, I forget what my n900 did Oct 08 23:30:55 apt-get remove cherry Oct 08 23:31:19 it's called cherry? lol Oct 08 23:31:42 at least my data plan doesn't charge for sms... but phoning home is annoying Oct 08 23:33:20 Well, I believe it's none of a mobile phone manufacturer business to know where their phones end up and who is using them Oct 08 23:37:10 forum.meego.com is dead? Oct 08 23:38:01 yeah and technically mobile phone service providers shouldn't need to know either, but unfortunately they have to... heh Oct 08 23:38:25 ~cherry Oct 08 23:38:31 grrr Oct 08 23:38:35 ~jrtools Oct 08 23:38:35 extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Oct 08 23:39:18 fmc is dead, yeah Oct 08 23:39:22 afaik Oct 08 23:43:07 archive.org fail. gna **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 09 02:59:58 2013