**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 30 02:59:58 2013
Oct 30 04:59:10 <qwerty123> Hey anyone dere??!
Oct 30 05:03:03 <qwerty123> My n900 stops responding sometimes. Cure is to wait or to restart. By unresponding i mean, we can surf thru menu and open any app but then after the app opens, it wont accept any touch or any keypress. For eg, xterm opens w/o the solidcursor (ie wid unfilled cursor) and remains the same!! 
Oct 30 05:15:30 <DocScrutinizer05> qwerty123: ffiixx yyoouurr kkeeyyss!! !! !! !! !!
Oct 30 05:16:25 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: keys??!
Oct 30 05:16:56 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: my keys work fine!!
Oct 30 05:16:56 <DocScrutinizer05> qwerty123: and please at least *try* to talk a somewhat correct english, leetspeak isn't appreciated here
Oct 30 05:17:08 <DocScrutinizer05> next "!!" will give you a kick
Oct 30 05:17:32 <qwerty123> okay.
Oct 30 05:19:50 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: what's the soltuion?
Oct 30 05:19:58 <qwerty123> *solution?
Oct 30 05:20:06 <DocScrutinizer05> to what?
Oct 30 05:20:22 <qwerty123> to the problem stated above.
Oct 30 05:20:32 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: my keys work fine. 
Oct 30 05:20:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't read statements that have leetspeak in it
Oct 30 05:23:01 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: okay. My phone doesnt respond sometimes. opened apps won't accept any touch or keypress, but menu and home work fine.
Oct 30 05:23:12 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: is it fine for you?
Oct 30 05:23:30 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, works for me. No such problems seen usually here
Oct 30 05:25:16 <DocScrutinizer05> didn't you tell you had problems with your digitizer? You fixed that?
Oct 30 05:25:25 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: what maybe the cause? opening htop shows no excess cpu usage by any app.
Oct 30 05:25:46 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: yep. 
Oct 30 05:26:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I think your hardware is defect
Oct 30 05:26:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and messing with software to fix that doesn't help but makes thinks worse
Oct 30 05:26:40 <DocScrutinizer05> things even
Oct 30 05:27:02 <qwerty123> if hardware is defective, then why would it work for menu and home. only apps go unresponding sometimes.
Oct 30 05:28:02 <DocScrutinizer05> if you reflash stock maemo5, do NOT install additional apps, and still have same problems, how could it be software?
Oct 30 05:28:52 <qwerty123> When did i say its stock maemo5 ? It is cssu. 
Oct 30 05:29:26 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: That issue was different. Not this one.
Oct 30 05:30:35 <DocScrutinizer05> you've been advices to reflash stock maemo images and test. Several times now. Until you consider following that advice, I don't see any use in trying to help you out of any 3rd level afterefects
Oct 30 05:30:50 <DocScrutinizer05> adviced*
Oct 30 05:33:36 <DocScrutinizer05> look, nobody else is encountering this overwhelming amount of trouble and unusual bizarre effects. It's a waste of everybody's time to try and diagnose every single one of them, just to finally find each time the same result: probably it's hardware defect
Oct 30 05:34:51 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: thank you. 
Oct 30 05:37:35 <DocScrutinizer05> since nobody else suffers same problems, it must be something very individual and unique to your device's hw and/or sw. When the problems persist with virgin maemo5 the it's obviously hw. When the problems are gone the all you can do is install the apps and whatnote widgets/patches/younameit ONE BY ONE one per day, and see which is causing the effects to appear again
Oct 30 05:38:32 <DocScrutinizer05> (add an "n" to "the" where needed)
Oct 30 05:45:57 <qwerty123>  DocScrutinizer05: thank you. Just to tell, i had done the same thing ( after readingod in some powertop thread )bout tone day, out of the blue, this error occured. This unresponsive screen thing has happened for 5 times in last 2 months. y one installation methid  and suddenly 
Oct 30 05:46:22 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: sorry. Vkb error.
Oct 30 05:47:17 <qwerty123> ignore after 2months. thats the vkb error.
Oct 30 05:48:01 <DocScrutinizer05> device sometimes freezes in swapping hell. particularly when copying huge data volumes between uSD and eMMC
Oct 30 05:48:47 <DocScrutinizer05> there are no other general problems known
Oct 30 05:49:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, one: device getting slow after some 5..15 days of uptime, due to swap fragmentation. But that neither explains any of the priblems you see
Oct 30 05:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> OTOH *all* your problems seem to be somehow related to digitizer
Oct 30 05:51:58 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: its not the device freezing. menu and homescreen work properly, just the apps donot work. apps dont respond, menu and home do. even to close the notresponding app, have  to use dashboard as app's close button wont respond.
Oct 30 05:52:35 <DocScrutinizer05> unheard bizarre effect
Oct 30 05:52:38 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: okay. i will get it checked at any shop.
Oct 30 05:53:31 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: not even one case like this? 
Oct 30 05:54:28 <DocScrutinizer05> again: check with virgin stock maemo image without additional packages installed, if the problems persist or return after a few days then it's hardware. Otherwise try to install the packages one by one and see what's the culprit. Nobody in here can help, since it's a new unheard of effect
Oct 30 05:55:34 <DocScrutinizer05> actually all the efects you reported during last few days are unheard of
Oct 30 05:57:05 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: okay. I will. Wow! maybe cons of getting a used device. thanks for help.
Oct 30 05:58:15 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: my first one was also unsolved, which was concluded as hardware damage. on newly flashed device c0 98.4 percent in powertop.
Oct 30 05:59:10 <DocScrutinizer05> just a arbitrary explanation: when digitizer oil is oxidized or some of it got lost somewhere, then any touch may stay sticky and only "opens up the contact between planes" when touching at another point of digitizer. This might work for appstarter, since you virtually "lift your finger" for a few milliseconds when old touchpoint opens and before new touchpoint closes connection between upper and lower digitizer plane. For any app however 
Oct 30 05:59:12 <DocScrutinizer05> this won't usually fly
Oct 30 06:00:52 <DocScrutinizer05> high C0 also can be an effect caused by "sticky touchpoint": the hildon gfx engine tries to move screen or icon or whatever it is supposed to do with a "point and drag" operation
Oct 30 06:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> diagnosing the digitizer with board tools isn't that easy, since the API is already pretty much preprocessed
Oct 30 06:03:25 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Oct 30 06:07:41 <DocScrutinizer05> when he wouldn't leave channel, I'd be able to give him furhter advice, like "enable taktile (vibrator) and audio touch feedback in settings->display(?). Start drawing app, see if there are random drawn lines/dots appearing. Check for proper behaviour of feedback when clicking exactly same point several times."
Oct 30 06:09:44 <DocScrutinizer05> "open xterm by kbd-shortcut. see if xterm input works. If xterm finally works, start drawing app via xterm cmdlne and see if it works _then_, when it doesn't work when started from applauncher"
Oct 30 07:00:24 <sono_> it's like you coded and bult half the phone core.
Oct 30 07:01:09 <sono_> i didn't even get arounf to thumbifiying yet. work, other projects, hackspace maintenance...
Oct 30 07:01:28 <sono_> at least my n900 typing is getting faster.
Oct 30 07:01:45 <sono_> so i am prepared for the neo =)
Oct 30 09:30:11 <Herbstbert> "the neo"?
Oct 30 11:46:18 <sunweaver> Hi all, I just became aware of the Neo900 project. How can I help?
Oct 30 11:46:36 <sunweaver> I am a Debian Developer and actually would like to see the Hildon Desktop UI in Debian...
Oct 30 11:46:42 <sunweaver> does that make sense?
Oct 30 11:47:07 <sunweaver> What OS will the Neo900 be based on? Does the Maemo project pull in sources from Debian?
Oct 30 11:53:25 <Chat-nel> hello 
Oct 30 11:56:39 <Chat-nel> is it possible to build my own N900 Fiasco image ?
Oct 30 12:12:57 <Pali> Chat-nel: yes
Oct 30 12:13:06 <Pali> look for sdk-fiasco-gen or 0xFFFF
Oct 30 12:13:27 <Pali> ~0xFFFF
Oct 30 12:13:27 <infobot> methinks 0xffff is https://gitorious.org/0xffff/
Oct 30 12:14:03 <Chat-nel> Pali: thank you
Oct 30 12:17:18 <Pali> holy shit, it looks like debian will switch from sys V init to upstart
Oct 30 12:18:14 <Pali> people who are responsibe for decision are from cannonical
Oct 30 12:19:36 <anYc> I also wondered about that, didn't debian complain about ubuntu not helping upstream?
Oct 30 12:19:58 <Pali> but upstart is maybe better then systemd: proof from definition: systemd is the worst SW ever
Oct 30 12:21:09 <Pali> anYc: problem is that debian tech-ctte people are from canonical. and I bet that canonical people will not vote against canonical sw (upstart)
Oct 30 12:21:53 <Pali> and another interesting reading about systemd: http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2013-10.html#e2013-10-29T13_39_32.txt
Oct 30 12:22:13 <Pali> ~poettering
Oct 30 12:23:15 <anYc> Pali: yes, and I wonder why they are in this committee
Oct 30 12:23:30 <sixwheeledbeast> I like upstart TBH. It has benefits
Oct 30 12:23:50 <Pali> anYc: because some other people vote for them...
Oct 30 12:24:19 <anYc> and systemd can't be that bad if most distributions switch to it
Oct 30 12:24:28 <Pali> no no no no no no no
Oct 30 12:24:35 <anYc> :)
Oct 30 12:24:44 <Pali> systemd is one big monotolic shit
Oct 30 12:25:14 <Chat-nel> I agree with Pali
Oct 30 12:25:23 <Pali> we can wait when systemd eat full linux
Oct 30 12:25:41 <Pali> then there will be only one linux distribution with name systemd
Oct 30 12:25:52 <Pali> there will be one binary systemd for everything...
Oct 30 12:25:56 <sunweaver> anYc: most distros switch to it, because recent GNOME versions depend on its presence.
Oct 30 12:25:58 <Pali> its not normal
Oct 30 12:26:01 <sunweaver> AFAIK
Oct 30 12:26:05 <Pali> so what?
Oct 30 12:26:24 <Pali> if some stupid people decide to depeneds on some stupid SW, then I'm forced to use that stupid sw?
Oct 30 12:26:37 <Pali> no, not
Oct 30 12:26:40 <sunweaver> Pali: no. Course not.
Oct 30 12:27:00 <sunweaver> There was a long fud on debian-devel about systemd and voting for it...
Oct 30 12:27:13 <sunweaver> pain of systemd is that it only works on Linux kernels.
Oct 30 12:27:32 <Pali> in traditinal unix way I was able to use any init daemon, any login daemon, any syslog daemon
Oct 30 12:27:34 * sunweaver likes good ole SystemV
Oct 30 12:27:39 <Pali> and everything worked
Oct 30 12:28:05 <l4m3rx> fsck systemd, fsck sysV. bsd init ftw!
Oct 30 12:28:12 <sunweaver> Pali: do you think you can point me to the right direction? What Hildon desktop will be used with Neo900?
Oct 30 12:28:19 <Pali> if I did not like old syslog daemon, I could switch to syslog-ng and OS worked without problem
Oct 30 12:28:52 <Pali> and now with systemd, I'm not able to replace systemd-logind...
Oct 30 12:29:06 <Pali> also systemd eat udev
Oct 30 12:29:14 <Pali> libdbus too
Oct 30 12:29:22 <Pali> and we can wait what will be next
Oct 30 12:29:41 <Pali> sunweaver: same what in maemo 5?
Oct 30 12:30:18 <Pali> l4m3rx: proof by definition: any SW is better then systemd, so sysv init from bsd is also better
Oct 30 12:31:04 <Pali> FUCK FUCK FUCK, my kubuntu which is systemdless has files in /lib/systemd/system/ !!!
Oct 30 12:31:20 <Pali> why?
Oct 30 12:31:28 <Pali> ubuntu migrating to systemd too? now?
Oct 30 12:31:42 <Pali> OMG, what happening now?
Oct 30 12:31:48 <l4m3rx> Pali, btw the situation now sysV > systemd is a bit like the bsd init> sysV init++++++ situation.... there was no real need for the switch, yet most disros switched....
Oct 30 12:31:50 <anYc> I'm not really familiar with systemd but I guess it has features that people want and if it's that bad as people say there would be alternatives
Oct 30 12:32:16 <anYc> Pali: at least on Gentoo, packages install systemd files even if systemd is not installed
Oct 30 12:32:27 <l4m3rx> I'm not comparing sysV to systemd, my point is that the we've already seen this kind of useless init change :S
Oct 30 12:32:29 <Pali> why on the earth??
Oct 30 12:32:37 <sunweaver> Pali: so Maemo stays on the lenny based Debian?
Oct 30 12:32:38 <Pali> to install something which is useless and not needed??
Oct 30 12:33:01 <Pali> sunweaver: for compatibility and for having working system, core should not changed
Oct 30 12:33:17 <Pali> sunweaver: lot of parts in maemo (which are not in debian) depends on current system
Oct 30 12:33:26 <sunweaver> Pali: ok.
Oct 30 12:33:41 <Pali> sunweaver: we need working system, not some new systemd solution which not working!
Oct 30 12:33:48 <sunweaver> Pali: do you know if there is any upstream for the Hildon Desktop UI?
Oct 30 12:34:04 <Pali> sunweaver: we are upstream :-) CSSU
Oct 30 12:34:31 <sunweaver> Pali: what I would like to do is bringing the Hildon desktop to Debian jessie. Where should I obtain code?
Oct 30 12:34:47 <sunweaver> I guess your Hildon is based on gtk-2 + gconf?
Oct 30 12:34:59 <Pali> sunweaver: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu
Oct 30 12:35:04 <Pali> sunweaver: yes
Oct 30 12:35:17 <sunweaver> what does ssu stand for? (out of curiosity)
Oct 30 12:35:39 <Pali> SSU = seamless software update
Oct 30 12:35:48 <Pali> C stands for Community
Oct 30 12:36:23 <anYc> hm, wasn't cordia doing something similar? http://wiki.maemo.org/Cordia
Oct 30 12:37:08 <anYc> but looks like http://cordiahd.org is lost
Oct 30 12:37:28 <l4m3rx> I don't know what will happen with the systemd fisco, but there's one thing sure ...Slackware userbase will grow 'cose of it.
Oct 30 12:37:54 <Chat-nel> l4m3rx: and Gentoo userbase too
Oct 30 12:42:39 <l4m3rx> and LFS
Oct 30 12:42:59 <Chat-nel> euh
Oct 30 12:43:36 <Chat-nel> not exactly an user-friendly distribution
Oct 30 12:43:53 <l4m3rx> gentoo had some openrc bs init , right?
Oct 30 12:44:16 <anYc> default is openrc
Oct 30 12:44:40 <l4m3rx> can switch it to bsd init?
Oct 30 12:45:24 <anYc> hm, I don't know, at least there is also a working Gentoo/BSD project
Oct 30 12:45:55 <Chat-nel> openrc uses either sysVinit or systemd for Linux kernels
Oct 30 12:46:03 <l4m3rx> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems
Oct 30 12:46:15 <Chat-nel> and it uses BSD init for FreeBSD kernel
Oct 30 12:46:19 <l4m3rx> so just another fricken init out there...
Oct 30 12:46:42 <l4m3rx> why didn't they just used the bsd init for both? 
Oct 30 12:47:52 <l4m3rx> oh , cross-service deps ...i see.
Oct 30 12:56:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm founding the official anti-systemd_anti-PolypAudio_anti-kill-udev_anti_nuke-/usr_ANTIANTIANIT-POETTERING_club
Oct 30 12:58:04 <DocScrutinizer05> PA started to implement stuff that peottering never understood were already existing and working fine in ALSA. sytemd invented to do same for sysV-init, with same wrong rationale
Oct 30 13:00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> mixing in PA, MY ASS!!! dmix in ALSA worked great, while PA failed epically and hogged CPU
Oct 30 13:01:32 <DocScrutinizer05> per-app volume, HAHAHAHA. ALSA been able to do this since ages, just peottering didn't know how to do it
Oct 30 13:01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> audio via network, ALSA can do it
Oct 30 13:02:37 <DocScrutinizer05> so please tell me since I forgot - what exactly been the reason we NEED PA?
Oct 30 13:03:00 <DocScrutinizer05> same for systemd
Oct 30 13:03:39 <jaska> i hope debian doesnt go for systemd.. i'll have to keep sysvinit around manually then 
Oct 30 13:03:57 <DocScrutinizer05> parallelizing init-tasks? FREAKIN SHITE, my Suse-sysVinit has a "parallelize: yes/no" flag since I guess 10 years
Oct 30 13:04:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and don't get me started on /usr and udev! >:-(
Oct 30 13:06:21 <DocScrutinizer05> since ages linux is striving to stay and even get more compatible with arbitrary unix. Mr Poettering thinks this is an evil thing that has to get abandoned
Oct 30 13:06:51 <DocScrutinizer05> moron
Oct 30 13:08:27 <wnd> DocScrutinizer05, where do I sign up?-)
Oct 30 13:16:38 <l4m3rx> As a friend likes to say ... 'Some guys are alive only 'cose it's illegal to kill them' :D
Oct 30 13:16:49 <l4m3rx> ^ Mr Poettering is one of them
Oct 30 13:23:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ack
Oct 30 13:24:12 <DocScrutinizer05> wnd: wait a short while, I'll go creating a website
Oct 30 13:24:31 <DocScrutinizer05> virtual club room
Oct 30 13:26:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkey poettering
Oct 30 13:26:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys poettering
Oct 30 13:26:20 <infobot> Factoid search of 'poettering' by key (1): poettering #DEL#.
Oct 30 13:26:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ~unforget poettering
Oct 30 13:26:36 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'poettering'.  Have fun now.
Oct 30 13:28:38 <DocScrutinizer05> like there's no singular (no plural?) of sheep or fish, there's also no basic form of poettering, 'to poetter' doesn't exist
Oct 30 13:29:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~poettering
Oct 30 13:29:21 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Oct 30 13:35:27 <jaska> someone had deleted it again?
Oct 30 15:58:17 <Pali> upstart init daemon using ptrace for handling running processes
Oct 30 15:58:26 <Pali> this is also worse
Oct 30 15:59:04 <Pali> why on the earth people who writing init daemons doing this shits?
Oct 30 16:05:26 <Pali> >>> <DocScrutinizer05> so please tell me since I forgot - what exactly been the reason we NEED PA? <<< My bluetooth audio headset does not work without PA :-( :-(
Oct 30 16:05:46 <Chat-nel> Pali: the dump fiasco image works with 0xFFFF for a N900 ?
Oct 30 16:06:23 <Pali> Chat-nel: what do you mean with that? 0xFFFF can on n900 dump all parts and pack them to fiasco image
Oct 30 16:06:52 <Pali> but due to optification, you can not easy flash /opt together with rootfs
Oct 30 16:07:31 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05: alsa cannot use my bluetooth headset (or I did not found any working howto for that)
Oct 30 16:08:35 <Pali> ~poettering
Oct 30 16:08:36 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Oct 30 16:10:44 <Chat-nel> is there an available package for the N900 ? I tried to use it from my computer for making a dump, but it is not supported
Oct 30 16:11:07 <Pali> Chat-nel: you need to compile 0xFFFF for n900 (in scratchbox) yourself
Oct 30 16:11:30 <Pali> O think there is some beta version build for n900 in TMO thread
Oct 30 16:11:34 <Pali> ~0xFFFF
Oct 30 16:11:35 <infobot> rumour has it, 0xffff is https://gitorious.org/0xffff/
Oct 30 16:11:53 <Chat-nel> ok, thank you
Oct 30 16:12:23 <Pali> infobot: 0xFFFF is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87996
Oct 30 16:12:24 <infobot> okay, Pali
Oct 30 16:12:28 <Pali> ~0xFFFF
Oct 30 16:12:30 <infobot> i heard 0xffff is https://gitorious.org/0xffff/, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87996
Oct 30 16:15:52 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05: what about replacing pulseaudio server with jackd server?
Oct 30 16:17:05 <Pali> I do not understand why they did not started to providing additional jackd modules, but they started doing on new audio server esd/pulseaudio
Oct 30 17:40:23 <z1pp0> bonjour
Oct 30 17:40:46 <Chat-nel> bonsoir z1pp0
Oct 30 17:40:59 <z1pp0> sa va??
Oct 30 17:41:21 <Chat-nel> vite fait
Oct 30 17:45:20 <z1pp0> Quoi Vite fait
Oct 30 17:45:32 <z1pp0> Sa va Vite?
Oct 30 18:10:33 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: ((My bluetooth audio headset does not work without PA)) that's because of silly bluez-devels decided to only support PA and no ALSA
Oct 30 18:11:06 <Pali> yes :-(
Oct 30 18:11:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not a deficiency of ALSA or a merit of PA though
Oct 30 18:11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> the dynamic switching from anohter audio sink to BT headset is a bit tricky to implement in ALSA
Oct 30 18:12:22 <Pali> it is ever possible?
Oct 30 18:13:27 <DocScrutinizer05> but unless you want to pair arbitrary new headsets while listening to music and then switch to that freshly paired headset without any gap in playback, it *can* get done in ALSA as well, simply by defining multiple sinks and giving a dedicated level control/muteswitch to each one of them
Oct 30 18:14:08 <DocScrutinizer05> you just need to know the sinks prior to opening the ALSA stack, since they need to be defined in stack definition before you do
Oct 30 18:14:46 <DocScrutinizer05> this would evem allow to playback via *both* BT headset and e.g. AV-jack
Oct 30 18:18:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and ALSA has a nice method to start arbitrary executables on opening/closing an alsa stack, you just define the executable to run in the stack definition (~/.asoundrc)
Oct 30 18:19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I created a lib to provide that function
Oct 30 18:20:05 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/ALSAso.tar.gz
Oct 30 18:21:32 <DocScrutinizer05> you could change mixer settings (that's what ALSA always been able to do, even without my testhook.so) or execute whatever you like, e.g. switch on the BT or your home-stereo
Oct 30 18:29:33 <DocScrutinizer05> since the app is using alsa library to open the ALSA stack you defined in e.g. .asoundrc and the library is in app context, ALSA also sees same env vars you set up for the app. one of those can be a redefinition of "default" for those idiotic apps that can't choose the ALSA device to open/use but always open alsa_default device
Oct 30 18:34:47 <DocScrutinizer05> you just place a env expansion for "$alsa_default" into the definition of default pcm, and thus you make any arbitrary (even "broken") app open whatever device(-audiostack) you want
Oct 30 18:40:54 <DocScrutinizer05> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/twinklephone/conversations/topics/1731
Oct 30 18:45:35 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/76e2ea7c29
Oct 30 18:47:09 <DocScrutinizer05> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/ALSA/ACI/
Oct 30 19:10:03 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: unlike any other audio concept you don't need ANY patches to the app that wants to use special audio device
Oct 30 20:15:02 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/30/cisco_open_source_h264_stack/
Oct 30 21:07:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 fundraiser started
Oct 30 21:07:29 <DocScrutinizer05> neo900.org
Oct 30 21:07:59 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1383443&postcount=948
Oct 30 21:08:58 <kolp> \o/
Oct 30 21:09:27 * kolp is waiting for the feasibility study, though
Oct 30 21:14:48 <DocScrutinizer05> it should be online, there been an issue which requeres login to access it
Oct 30 21:15:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I hope that will be fixed soon
Oct 30 21:15:59 <DocScrutinizer05> the study is a moving target, it kinda documents our recent status
Oct 30 21:16:29 <DocScrutinizer05> and it's "unfinished" even to the current state, as it always lags behind a bit
Oct 30 21:16:49 <kolp> Ah, I thought that login was kinda an indicator that it's not done yet
Oct 30 21:17:05 <kolp> s/not done/not available/
Oct 30 21:17:06 <infobot> kolp meant: Ah, I thought that login was kinda an indicator that it's not available yet
Oct 30 21:21:03 <dos1> kolp: I'll put the link to feasibility study on homepage soon
Oct 30 21:21:56 <sono> do it ASAP, don't hurt credibility...
Oct 30 21:22:57 <kolp> dos1: Great! Would be cool if you could put a new post on the RSS feed, too, when it's there
Oct 30 21:23:12 <dos1> kolp: should be there
Oct 30 21:23:48 <dos1> my reader even already picked it up ;)
Oct 30 21:24:44 <sono> marvelous thing, this internet
Oct 30 21:24:49 <kolp> dos1: The fundraiser announcement, yes. I was talking about the feasibility study link ;)
Oct 30 21:24:54 <dos1> oh, ok
Oct 30 21:24:55 <dos1> sure :)
Oct 30 21:58:09 <DocScrutinizer05> (fweasibility study) I'm sure Nikolaus forgot to set it public. Should be fixed soon, the link/URL will stay stable
Oct 30 21:59:52 <DocScrutinizer05> btw you probably could just create an account and then log in to access it right away
Oct 30 22:00:09 <DocScrutinizer05> (I haven't tried yet :-D )
Oct 30 22:00:25 <DocScrutinizer05> (since I already know what's in there)
Oct 30 22:01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> we had a first donation of 300 already a few hours ago :-o
Oct 30 22:01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> alas money transfer, so it's not yet on meter, until money shows up on bank account
Oct 30 23:08:53 <MentalistTraceur> freemangordon: Any chance you got a moment to spare to help me figure out why your open source libcal isn't working for me? (I'm trying to build an actual libcal.so that I could then drop in in place of the existing closed source one, to test some stuff - have you ever compiled it on the N900 itself, and regardless of where, what's the command string you used with gcc (or what did you use if ...
Oct 30 23:08:58 <MentalistTraceur> ... not gcc))
Oct 30 23:11:06 * lexik is spreading the word about Neo900 insanely and dreaming about connecting OpenEEG to it... neo900.org page is making me craazy o.O :D
Oct 30 23:12:47 <MentalistTraceur> I have limited experience compiling shared object files, so I may be screwing something up, but I have tried "gcc -shared cal.c" (obviously with the latest version of cal.c and cal.h from the gitorious.com/community-ssu/libcal repo,
Oct 30 23:14:07 <lexik> dos1: New Neo900 page is looking awesome :) [big thanks]
Oct 30 23:14:12 <MentalistTraceur> and that creates a massively bloated binary in the first place, but then it also fails to actually work, with error messages like "unexpected reloc type 0x03" when I run a program that was compiled against the stock libcal.
Oct 30 23:14:33 <MentalistTraceur> Anyone else other than freemangordon who can help, feel free to chip in as well.
Oct 30 23:24:36 <dos1> lexik: thanks :)
Oct 30 23:27:03 <jake42> I presume battery hot-swap on neo900 is referring to swaping battery while usb is plugged in, right?
Oct 30 23:28:39 <dos1> jake42: that's for sure... but DocScrutinizer05 is planning some crazy stuff there ;)
Oct 30 23:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> no, that's meant for really fats swap of battery in the field
Oct 30 23:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> fast*
Oct 30 23:30:06 <jake42> dos1: no doubt about that :)
Oct 30 23:30:29 <DocScrutinizer05> hotswap with charger plugged in works even on N900 ;-)
Oct 30 23:30:56 <MentalistTraceur> (That's what I already thought, but since we're on the topc it's good to hear it actually confirmed.)
Oct 30 23:31:15 <MentalistTraceur> s/topc/topic/
Oct 30 23:31:16 <infobot> MentalistTraceur meant: (That's what I already thought, but since we're on the topic it's good to hear it actually confirmed.)
Oct 30 23:31:43 <jake42> DocScrutinizer05: so how's the hotswap without another powersource going to work?
Oct 30 23:31:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it's about some buffer capacitors allowing device to operate 2..5s without battery
Oct 30 23:32:03 <jake42> while in some deep sleep mode?
Oct 30 23:32:09 <DocScrutinizer05> nah
Oct 30 23:32:20 <Gh0sty> i was wondering actually you might know DocScrutinizer05 
Oct 30 23:32:30 <Gh0sty> is there a way to power an n900 without battery?
Oct 30 23:32:35 <DocScrutinizer05> just reduce unneeded power hogs, like display backlight
Oct 30 23:32:44 <Gh0sty> like shorting pins in the battery compartment? 
Oct 30 23:32:56 <Gh0sty> so it runs solely from AC adapter? 
Oct 30 23:33:04 <DocScrutinizer05> Gh0sty: yes, but not for the modem
Oct 30 23:33:24 <Gh0sty> so you can't make calls? 
Oct 30 23:33:28 <Gh0sty> thats ok i guess
Oct 30 23:33:31 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you connect a beefy PSU directly to the battery conatcts
Oct 30 23:33:48 <Gh0sty> its just an idea of what to do with the phone once i buy a new one
Oct 30 23:34:00 <Gh0sty> bit of a waste to sell it since nobody will want it
Oct 30 23:34:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I operated my N900 for several hours without battery inserted
Oct 30 23:34:09 <Gh0sty> rather want to keep it for some other stuff ... :)
Oct 30 23:34:29 <Gh0sty> you can make a description (or there are links?) 
Oct 30 23:34:32 <kolp> Gh0sty: Why not keep it on USB with battery inserted?
Oct 30 23:34:48 <Gh0sty> well if you do that for weeks / months
Oct 30 23:34:55 <Gh0sty> batteries dont like that i guess :p
Oct 30 23:35:06 <Gh0sty> and will eventually die (and i hope not in flames) 
Oct 30 23:35:15 <DocScrutinizer05> funny enough you need to make sure the backlight won't shut down ever, to provide a certain minimum power consumption, when running it from charger only
Oct 30 23:35:47 <Gh0sty> isn't turning on wifi or bt enough  ?
Oct 30 23:36:10 <DocScrutinizer05> Gh0sty: my N900 is 95% on PSU, the T900 (devel devidce) 100%, since years
Oct 30 23:36:46 <Gh0sty> so how do you do it? :P
Oct 30 23:39:03 <Gh0sty> other idea i had was just to put in like a supercap
Oct 30 23:39:11 <Gh0sty> that pretends to be a battery ... :)
Oct 30 23:39:21 <Gh0sty> if that'll fit in the battery compartiment that is :p
Oct 30 23:43:38 <DocScrutinizer05> my t900 battery is quite ok still
Oct 30 23:43:57 <DocScrutinizer05> and it actually literally runs since years from charger, 24/7
Oct 30 23:44:03 <Gh0sty> hm ok
Oct 30 23:44:09 <Gh0sty> i have one of my old phones 
Oct 30 23:44:15 <Gh0sty> not plugged in for a while
Oct 30 23:44:27 <Gh0sty> noticed that the battery has like expanded
Oct 30 23:44:48 <Gh0sty> not really exploded or leaking but something must be wrong inside ...
Oct 30 23:45:03 <Gh0sty> ofcourse i am talking a device that has in the mean time > 10 years on the counter :P
Oct 31 00:00:35 <MentalistTraceur> Okay, I have to wonder if anyone even tried using freemangordon's cal.h instead of the stock cal.h. Including him. I just found a bug - it uses typedefs from <sys/types.h> without including said header - cal.c includes it but cal.h doesn't, which means that trying to compile a program that only includes cal.h would simply fail to build.
Oct 31 00:00:59 <MentalistTraceur> I should probably get around to submitting a patch for that eventually.
Oct 31 00:10:56 <DocScrutinizer05> Gh0sty: leaving battery inside stashed-away device is the worst thing to do. You can *bet* on battery dieing
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 31 02:59:58 2013