**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 02 02:59:57 2013
Nov 02 04:08:04 <SAiF> ~ping
Nov 02 04:08:04 <infobot> ~pong
Nov 02 18:12:45 <DocScrutinizer05> R. J. 2013-11-02 19:00:38 150.00 EUR    made it!
Nov 02 18:12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> level-II reached
Nov 02 18:25:02 <Agge> after installing the flasher35 package on my gentoo system I have a program named flasher but not flasher-3.5 I asume that this is the same
Nov 02 18:26:18 <kerio> probably, yeah
Nov 02 18:26:21 <kolp> Agge: $ flasher-3.5
Nov 02 18:26:21 <kolp> flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009)
Nov 02 18:26:22 <kerio> run it with no parameters
Nov 02 18:26:33 <kerio> :D
Nov 02 18:26:39 <kerio> if it says 2.5, it's 3.5
Nov 02 18:26:45 <Agge>  # flasher 
Nov 02 18:26:46 <Agge> flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009)
Nov 02 18:27:06 <Agge> how do that work logically?
Nov 02 18:27:12 <kerio> nokia logic
Nov 02 18:27:18 <kerio> top 3 logic
Nov 02 18:30:49 <Agge> what is I actualy suposed to download form http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/ ?
Nov 02 18:32:15 <Agge> or should I do somthing else to be able to update my n900 to somthing useful?
Nov 02 18:33:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
Nov 02 18:33:14 <infobot> well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Nov 02 18:33:41 <DocScrutinizer05> if that's even what you want to do
Nov 02 18:33:47 <Agge> trying to folow that
Nov 02 18:33:58 <DocScrutinizer05> for updating you want to check
Nov 02 18:34:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu
Nov 02 18:34:00 <infobot> methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Nov 02 18:34:43 <Agge> thanks I had lost that tab somewhere
Nov 02 18:43:08 <Agge> do backupmenu exist in the program installer in the N900 or are I suposed to get it from the web page?
Nov 02 18:50:15 <kolp> Agge: Why don't you try? :) apt-get install backupmenu should work if you have extras-devel enabled
Nov 02 18:51:10 <Agge> I found that I had extras-devel desabled it is updating the package list now
Nov 02 18:51:26 <Agge> ofcorse I did try first
Nov 02 18:51:31 <kolp> :)
Nov 02 18:52:14 <Agge> might be a good Idea to have the install guide mention extras-devel
Nov 02 18:55:24 <Agge> I asume that I don't need to make updates of specific programs now if I am updating the whole system
Nov 02 19:02:23 <Agge>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/python2.5/gsmdecode.py', which is also in package ussd-common
Nov 02 19:02:24 <Agge> Errors were encountered while processing:
Nov 02 19:02:24 <Agge>  /var/cache/apt/archives/ussd4all_0.0.7-1_armel.deb  anyone have any ideeas?
Nov 02 19:14:18 <Agge> trying to move /usr/lib/python2.5/gsmdecode.py to /usr/lib/python2.5/gsmdecode.py2 and it seams to work now
Nov 02 19:31:51 <Agge> looks like apt-get hangs after the 12c-tools warning
Nov 02 19:33:42 <Agge> aha intresting apt-get over ssh did get it to output a GUI dialog on the phone
Nov 02 19:36:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ussd is completely obsolete
Nov 02 19:37:25 <Agge> trying to install backupmenus and it is just giving me different errors
Nov 02 19:37:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's why you should use HAM to install certain things
Nov 02 19:37:46 <DocScrutinizer05> at least one of the reasons
Nov 02 19:37:47 <Agge> HAM?
Nov 02 19:38:26 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo is no debian system, when it comes to package management
Nov 02 19:38:52 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo package management is "slightly" different
Nov 02 19:39:44 <DocScrutinizer05> it's still using dpkg and apt, but that's not comprehensive to handle the special quirks they build into the package management iat Nokia
Nov 02 19:40:03 <Agge> HAM= the GUI package manager on the N900?
Nov 02 19:40:34 <Agge> I just remember it as being a pain to use bocose it was always loading stuff
Nov 02 19:48:00 <Agge> DocScrutinizer05, Is HAM the standard gui package manager or somthing else?
Nov 02 19:52:06 <obiwlan_afk> Agge: i believe it stands for harmattan application manager and it's the standard manager, yes
Nov 02 19:52:19 <Agge> ok 
Nov 02 19:52:51 <Agge> looks like the backup menus app dont exist in it even with extra devel unless it is under some other name
Nov 02 19:55:29 <Agge> anyone have any sugestions or could I skip that stepp?
Nov 02 19:58:10 <kolp> obiwlan: s/harmattan/hildon/ ;)
Nov 02 19:58:50 <kolp> Agge: What are the errors you get with apt-get?
Nov 02 19:59:07 <mashina_> it's 4 BH (Before Harmattan)
Nov 02 19:59:26 <obiwlan> kolp: oh, you're right 
Nov 02 20:00:44 <Agge> http://pastebin.com/jTNhyRp6
Nov 02 20:03:38 <Agge> maybe I should do a factory reset or somthing first?
Nov 02 20:05:38 <Agge> kolp, ??
Nov 02 20:10:07 <kolp> Agge: Well, it looks like backupmenu was installed correctly before
Nov 02 20:10:24 <kolp> Those errors suggest that something else is wrong
Nov 02 20:10:57 <Agge> I think that the mention of backupmenu is form the first time I tried to install it
Nov 02 20:12:28 <Agge> any ideea what could be wrong
Nov 02 20:18:26 <Agge> Nokia-N900-51-1:~# dpkg -i backupmenu_1.2.0-2_all.deb 
Nov 02 20:18:27 <Agge> (Reading database ... 28114 files and directories currently installed.)
Nov 02 20:18:27 <Agge> Preparing to replace backupmenu 1.2.0-2 (using backupmenu_1.2.0-2_all.deb) ...
Nov 02 20:18:27 <Agge> Unpacking replacement backupmenu ...
Nov 02 20:18:27 <Agge> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of backupmenu:
Nov 02 20:18:27 <Agge>  backupmenu depends on tar-gnu; however:
Nov 02 20:18:29 <Agge>   Package tar-gnu is not configured yet.
Nov 02 20:18:31 <Agge> dpkg: error processing backupmenu (--install):
Nov 02 20:18:33 <Agge>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Nov 02 20:18:37 <Agge> Errors were encountered while processing:
Nov 02 20:18:39 <Agge>  backupmenu
Nov 02 20:18:53 <Agge> anyone have any ideea?
Nov 02 20:23:46 <NIN102> "  Package tar-gnu is not configured yet."
Nov 02 20:24:03 <Agge> so how do I configur it?
Nov 02 20:25:49 <NIN102> I am actually not sure that's the way you should install it.
Nov 02 20:26:28 <Agge> right now I am just trying all ways I can think about and see if I can find one that works
Nov 02 20:26:47 <kolp> From the pastebin it looks like optification of those broken packages fails. You should have a look at the directories/files it tries to move and chack what's going wrong there
Nov 02 20:27:01 <kolp> s/chack/check/
Nov 02 20:27:01 <infobot> kolp meant: From the pastebin it looks like optification of those broken packages fails. You should have a look at the directories/files it tries to move and check what's going wrong there
Nov 02 20:27:27 <NIN102> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975
Nov 02 20:27:33 <kolp> Maybe reinstall tar et al.
Nov 02 20:27:38 <Agge> I honestly don't know whare to start with that
Nov 02 20:27:58 <Agge> I got both tar-gnu and backupmenu installed now by using dpkg
Nov 02 20:30:01 <Agge> I could probibly fix the rest of the packages by installing them manualy one by one but that seams to much work on a system that I only need funktioning well eniogh to flash a newer frimware to it
Nov 02 20:30:12 <kolp> Try to reinstall apt-get --reinstall install nano
Nov 02 20:30:41 <NIN102> "well eniogh to flash a newer frimware to it" since when does flashing require the OS to work? 
Nov 02 20:30:52 <kolp> You could just boot and try backupmenu then
Nov 02 20:31:11 <Agge> since the goide tells you to install backupmenu
Nov 02 20:31:22 <NIN102> you don't need backupmenu to flash maemo.
Nov 02 20:31:35 <kolp> Oh, that's what you want to do?
Nov 02 20:32:16 <kolp> Just flash, no backup restoring?
Nov 02 20:32:34 <Agge> installing somthing that is still maintained and hopefully not as laggy as the nokia image i have now
Nov 02 20:34:40 <Agge> right now I am following the ~cssu guide but if that is wrong please till me
Nov 02 20:38:16 <NIN101> There is only one maintained/daily usable OS for the N900, that's Maemo. If this is what you want to flash, I would carefully read http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware 
Nov 02 20:39:38 <Agge> I did begin with that but it do not in any way specify what files I actualy should download
Nov 02 20:41:26 <Agge> I don't understand the structure of this is the updated maemo and cssu simular things or should I install one and then the other?
Nov 02 20:41:53 <kolp> If you want to start from scratch you flash the latest nokia image first, then update to cssu from there
Nov 02 20:43:57 <Agge> ok so I should do that even if I have the latest nokia image installed right now?
Nov 02 20:45:58 <kolp> If your current install is working then there is no need to reflash, afaik
Nov 02 20:46:11 <kolp> You should fix those apt-get errors, though
Nov 02 20:47:07 <Agge> so reflashing it is then
Nov 02 20:47:30 <Agge> what file should I actualy download from http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/ ?
Nov 02 20:47:37 <Agge> RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin ?
Nov 02 20:48:14 <kolp> The 'Latest' ones
Nov 02 20:48:39 <kolp> RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin and RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
Nov 02 20:49:09 <Agge> aha thanks that was what was unclear if I only should use one or if I should use 2
Nov 02 20:49:41 <kolp> By flashing the emmc one you will erase all content on your phone 
Nov 02 20:49:49 <kolp> *from
Nov 02 20:50:21 <Agge> yeah I havent had anything of value on this phone the last 2 years
Nov 02 20:54:05 <Agge> so now I should run  flasher RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f
Nov 02 20:54:23 <Agge> and then flasher RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f ?
Nov 02 21:02:21 <kolp> sorry, afk
Nov 02 21:03:31 <Agge> I have done the first command and got succses form it is the second one correct? the guide just say do this but dont give you how
Nov 02 21:05:15 <Agge> kolp, ?
Nov 02 21:19:30 <Agge> kolp, DocScrutinizer05 somthing went wrong
Nov 02 21:19:43 <DocScrutinizer05> hm?
Nov 02 21:20:24 <Agge> I am geting a purpul squer with some black sques in it
Nov 02 21:20:51 <DocScrutinizer05> hm??
Nov 02 21:21:24 <kerio> you flashed vanilla after flashing combined
Nov 02 21:21:27 <kerio> your optfs is fucked
Nov 02 21:21:32 <kerio> flash combined again
Nov 02 21:21:33 <DocScrutinizer05> you haven't read whole page on
Nov 02 21:21:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
Nov 02 21:21:37 <infobot> maemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Nov 02 21:22:01 <Agge> I tried but the page is realy comfuslingly written
Nov 02 21:22:20 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why you need to read it completely
Nov 02 21:22:50 <DocScrutinizer05> WHO THE HECK WROTE SUCH SHIT TO THAT WIKIPAGE???
Nov 02 21:23:26 <Defiant> its a wiki :)
Nov 02 21:23:54 <Agge> If it is about the warning I think it need to be
Nov 02 21:25:01 <Agge> thanks kerio it is installing the combined now
Nov 02 21:26:22 <Agge> kerio, should I reboot it now or is it any more steps to it?
Nov 02 21:29:34 <Agge> DocScrutinizer05, seriusly you made the page protected becose of my edit?
Nov 02 21:30:25 <DocScrutinizer05> no, I protected it because it hasn't seen any need for edits since >2 years
Nov 02 21:31:31 <Agge> ok If you would alowe it I would like to clean it up or should I make a Updating_the_firmware_cleanup page for that so can you check if for errors befero it go live?
Nov 02 21:32:03 <DocScrutinizer05> you're free to create a new page
Nov 02 21:32:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggest http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware/rev2
Nov 02 21:33:03 <DocScrutinizer05> but you'll create a LOT of confusion with such activity
Nov 02 21:33:50 <Agge> ok thanks. sorry about the warning edit but it felt a little iritating when I in my understanding had done everything correct ad it still dident work the way it was suposed to
Nov 02 21:33:52 <DocScrutinizer05> since... the page been reviewed by literally thousands of users and everybody had to admit there are no errors and no missing info in it
Nov 02 21:34:21 <DocScrutinizer05> PEBKAC
Nov 02 21:34:46 <DocScrutinizer05> emphasis on >>I in my understanding<<
Nov 02 21:35:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I admit it lacked a header telling to REAd THE WHOLE PAGE
Nov 02 21:35:07 <Agge> if you say so but the info could be presented in a more logical manner
Nov 02 21:35:50 <Agge> I am of the opinin that the "REAd THE WHOLE PAGE" EULA shouldent be needed it should be posibel to follow a guide without jumping around in it
Nov 02 21:36:00 <DocScrutinizer05> the logic of flashing isn't exactly simple, and evidently you didn't understand it yet
Nov 02 21:36:58 <Agge> absolutely true
Nov 02 21:37:05 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't need to jump around. You read the whole page, and at very end you find >>the complete foolproof flashing procedure<<
Nov 02 21:38:04 <Agge> what section "Troubleshooting"?
Nov 02 21:38:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Nov 02 21:38:57 <DocScrutinizer05> here you are http://privatepaste.com/f3ceae295e
Nov 02 21:41:34 <Agge> could you point out what line this refer to Start flasher with above mentioned command to flash (without -R, it's a useless convenience thing). It says "Suitable device not found... waiting" "
Nov 02 21:42:11 <Agge> and if that is the best way why not have it as the standard way?
Nov 02 21:43:49 <DocScrutinizer05> because a lot of experienced users argue that the safest way is not the fastest/cleanest/most-convenient way
Nov 02 21:44:11 <Agge> thanks kerio I got it booting correctly now.
Nov 02 21:44:35 <DocScrutinizer05> but all the other methods are more prone to mess them up by unsolicited booting of device (-R) etc
Nov 02 21:45:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and because all this is in that one page, it's looking like it does
Nov 02 21:45:35 <Agge> I would be happy with a 1. 2. 3. list that say flash this image then flash this image
Nov 02 21:45:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/f3ceae295e
Nov 02 21:46:55 <DocScrutinizer05> to understand WHICH images you WNAT to flash to accomplish what you want to do, you need to read the introduction on that page though
Nov 02 21:47:26 <DocScrutinizer05> usually users do NOT want to flash VANILLA/eMMC image
Nov 02 21:48:11 <DocScrutinizer05> flashing is a complex stuff, it's not possible to explain it like 1. 2. 3.
Nov 02 21:48:32 <Agge> then it might be good if it said that. would I actualy have been ok if I just flashed the rootfs on my old nokia image?
Nov 02 21:48:51 <Agge> true that is why you have a troubleshooting setting 
Nov 02 21:48:52 <DocScrutinizer05> since there are more than one puposes and more than one way to do flashing, depending on a number of conditions
Nov 02 21:48:57 <Agge> section
Nov 02 21:50:05 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-11-02 19:33:14] <infobot> well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Nov 02 21:50:06 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-11-02 19:33:41] <DocScrutinizer05> if that's even what you want to do
Nov 02 21:50:22 <DocScrutinizer05> see that last line?
Nov 02 21:51:21 <Agge> yeah and I did ask "[19:30] <Agge> or should I do somthing else to be able to update my n900 to somthing useful?" before
Nov 02 21:52:09 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah and I... i'm leaving now, since this is too silly
Nov 02 21:52:11 <obiwlan> mh... i've got a very old cssu firmware. if i wanted to upgrade to the lastest, would i have to reflash? it's been a long time since i installed it. the neo900 news made be start to tinker with my device again :)
Nov 02 21:52:22 <DocScrutinizer05> obiwlan: no
Nov 02 21:52:53 <DocScrutinizer05> obiwlan: should update just fine
Nov 02 21:53:52 <obiwlan> DocScrutinizer05: great
Nov 02 21:55:49 <DocScrutinizer05> obiwlan: *might* help to change your system clock to 2011
Nov 02 21:56:11 <DocScrutinizer05> to mitigate effects of exoired nokia signature
Nov 02 21:56:20 <DocScrutinizer05> expired even
Nov 02 21:56:42 <DocScrutinizer05> just in case it needs stuff from nokia repo
Nov 02 21:57:29 <obiwlan> does anyone have a source for original spare parts? i installed a new touchscreen after the screen surface started to dissolve, but the screen i ordered from ebay looks like there's an oil film on it
Nov 02 21:57:51 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Nov 02 21:57:54 <obiwlan> DocScrutinizer05: oh, ok .. i noticed some expired gpg keys
Nov 02 21:58:07 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, nokia signature
Nov 02 21:58:24 <obiwlan> alright, thanks for the tip
Nov 02 21:59:04 <DocScrutinizer05> there are abundance of sources for n900 digitizer, alas I haven't evaluated a single one of them
Nov 02 21:59:31 <obiwlan> DocScrutinizer05: some claim to have original parts, but i'm quite sure mine isn't original
Nov 02 21:59:42 <DocScrutinizer05> possible
Nov 02 21:59:50 <obiwlan> the n900 font on it is different
Nov 02 21:59:55 <DocScrutinizer05> there for sure are clones out there
Nov 02 22:00:16 <dos1> does it have polarisation filter?
Nov 02 22:00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> not sure, but probably yes
Nov 02 22:00:36 <obiwlan> dos1: i'm not sure
Nov 02 22:00:40 <dos1> i mean, that clone
Nov 02 22:00:48 <dos1> original one has for sure
Nov 02 22:01:03 <obiwlan> i noticed a darker area on the "glass" with round corners
Nov 02 22:01:06 <DocScrutinizer05> circular?
Nov 02 22:01:22 <dos1> looking through it at some screen while rotating it shows it clearly
Nov 02 22:01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, THROUGH it shows it
Nov 02 22:02:09 <dos1> yep... could be done before replacing :)
Nov 02 22:02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> when it's mounted, it's hard to tell
Nov 02 22:04:27 <obiwlan> i think mine has a polarisation filter, but the different font on the bezel makes me doubt it's original
Nov 02 22:04:57 <DocScrutinizer05> when you have doubts, then don't doubt!
Nov 02 22:05:01 <obiwlan> anyway .. i bought some defective n900's from ebay now that the news of the neo900 plans reached me ;)
Nov 02 22:05:25 <DocScrutinizer05> when you have no doubts it's original, then doubt it is ;-)
Nov 02 22:05:46 <DocScrutinizer05> good plan!
Nov 02 22:06:17 <mashina_> if they become affordable sometime I might get one
Nov 02 22:07:46 <obiwlan> i bought a nexus 4 and installed ubuntu touch the last week because i thought it might be a good n900 replacement. but i realized i can't live without the keyboard .. the n900 is such a great device. and the mechanics work just like on the first day. i love it
Nov 02 22:08:16 <mashina_> i'd like to try ubuntu touch but my N900 will be my forever phone (until a worthy sucessor appears)
Nov 02 22:08:47 <obiwlan> mashina_: amen
Nov 02 22:09:07 <mashina_> i might get a nexus 4 hand me down sometime though - maybe I'll try
Nov 02 22:12:03 <obiwlan> mashina_: if you want to install ubuntu touch on it i'd recommend to wait until at least 14.04
Nov 02 22:15:07 <Agge> Question what I did was basicaly this but without removing the battery. what do removing the battery change? Image:Ambox_notice.png
Nov 02 22:15:07 <Agge> 	When flashing the eMMC content, the safe way is flash the eMMC/VANILLA image first, then remove battery for a moment, and then flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image. 
Nov 02 22:43:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it shuts down the device
Nov 02 22:45:27 <DocScrutinizer05> there is no other way unless you gave -R parameter which will cause the device to reboot and thus run into trouble since it will miss /opt
Nov 02 22:46:06 <DocScrutinizer05> which is what you've witnessed
Nov 02 22:46:20 <DocScrutinizer05> (pink rectangles)
Nov 02 22:46:34 <Agge> I compleatly missed that it needed to be rebooted between the flashings :(
Nov 02 22:47:22 <Agge> sorry if I was rude about it
Nov 02 22:48:19 <DocScrutinizer05> it mustn't get rebooted
Nov 02 22:49:01 <Agge> shut down then restarted in usb mode
Nov 02 22:49:24 <Agge> one rev2 page https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/rev2 more or less complected
Nov 02 22:50:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and you think anybody is going to review that and find the mistakes it has?
Nov 02 22:50:25 <Agge> or 4 pages I made the install flasher, flasher errors and troubleshooting pages separate
Nov 02 22:50:39 <Agge> you do what you want with it now it exist
Nov 02 22:51:09 <Agge> (I did minimum changes on the instruktions)
Nov 02 22:51:39 <DocScrutinizer05> any change on instructions is an error
Nov 02 22:52:20 <DocScrutinizer05> the instructions are perfectly tested and work the way they are given on flashing page
Nov 02 22:52:37 <Agge> the only changes I did was whiting out the command instead of doing a reference
Nov 02 22:55:16 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm, did you also unroll the loop?
Nov 02 22:55:48 <DocScrutinizer05> the instruction/cmd is different for loop#2 than it is for loop#1 and loop#3
Nov 02 22:55:51 <Agge> I am not saying that the present page is wrong only hard to get a overwhue of. that is what I tried to fix 
Nov 02 22:56:38 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why I didn't write the command litareally when I wrote that foolproof procedure
Nov 02 22:59:07 <Agge> the "Updating_the_firmware#Updating_.26_Flashing_your_device" link? it just point at the "Updating & Flashing your device" part on my browser so it is a lite har to know what comand it is refereing to 
Nov 02 23:00:30 <Agge> and aperently chrome think that wiki.maemo.org use unsafe scripts
Nov 02 23:01:53 <Agge> found an error in the regular page "Flashing only the kernel from a FIASCO image (expert topic!)" -> "USING WINDOWS" need a <pre> and a </pre>
Nov 02 23:02:15 <DocScrutinizer05> no, I'm talking about >>the only changes I did was whiting out the command instead of doing a reference<<
Nov 02 23:08:27 <Agge> DocScrutinizer05, sorry what do you mean with the loop's?
Nov 02 23:09:12 <DocScrutinizer05> i'm not - I repeat NOT - going to review and debug the new page
Nov 02 23:10:59 <Agge> ok like I said you can do what you want with it. I am adding a work in progress disclamer so that no one use it
Nov 02 23:15:05 <Agge> I am just wondering what you mean by "unrolling the loop" 
Nov 02 23:38:00 <sixwheeledbeast> o.O ver2 flashing. what was wrong with original? 
Nov 02 23:39:32 <Agge> I just found it hard to get a good overview of it so I decided to make a version that would be easer to find stuff on
Nov 02 23:40:22 <Agge> might also move the different os instructions to different pages or just make one windows page and one Linux/MAC(Unix) page
Nov 02 23:41:31 <sixwheeledbeast> ok but now this is confusing that there are many flashing pages. also there not all sub-sections of each other and are root to original flashing not ver2 or whatever 
Nov 02 23:42:02 <Agge> all the new are rooted to rev2
Nov 02 23:42:28 <Agge> and you shouldent be able to find a link to them unless you are on rev2 allredy
Nov 02 23:45:25 <sixwheeledbeast> they are nested to original also I see typos. Like "Trubleshooting". mhmm.
Nov 02 23:46:14 <Agge> yeah My spelling is often bad
Nov 02 23:48:01 <sixwheeledbeast> wiki's have content boxes if author uses wiki headings correctly. this makes stuff easy to find and link to IMO.
Nov 02 23:48:57 <Agge> true but it is also a good idea to try to keep a page on topic as much as posibel to keep if from geting to long
Nov 02 23:49:44 <Agge> that is why I moved to install instructions to separate pages (you don't real nead them after the install is completed)
Nov 02 23:52:49 <Agge> sixwheeledbeast, nice scripts for newly flashed systems :)
Nov 02 23:53:07 <sixwheeledbeast> I looked at reordering stuff there a while ago when "wiki gardening" I decided it was best not to for a number of reasons. It is the most visited page on the wiki next to CSSU. Any major re-structuring would cause havoc/confusion. It has evolved over the years to what it is now for a reason.
Nov 02 23:53:28 <sixwheeledbeast> scripts?
Nov 02 23:53:39 <Agge> https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts
Nov 02 23:54:06 <sixwheeledbeast> oh ~beasttweaks
Nov 02 23:54:16 <sixwheeledbeast> also see ~jrtools
Nov 02 23:55:27 <Agge> yeah I vill reflash it with a bigger home partition :) that instruction might actulay be usefull on the flashing page :)
Nov 02 23:57:43 <Agge> actualy the page could probibly be made even smaller by making the console flashing instructions OS independent
Nov 02 23:58:33 <sixwheeledbeast> flashing is a "beginners" page and shouldn't have any modifications on. I suggest all personal modifications you wish to store go in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Agge/foo
Nov 02 23:59:14 <sixwheeledbeast> like doc, wikiwide myself and many others have.
Nov 03 00:00:18 <Agge> do meamo have a strange way of storing stuff? ie only 2gb home by defuld do it handle media somwhare else?
Nov 03 00:00:43 <sixwheeledbeast> Agge: are you new to maemo?
Nov 03 00:01:27 <Agge> half havent touched my N900 for about 2 years so I have forgoten most of the stuff about using it
Nov 03 00:02:03 <Agge> or most of the more advanced stuff
Nov 03 00:02:29 <sixwheeledbeast> ~opt
Nov 03 00:02:29 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, opt is available from http://nis-www.lanl.gov/~jt/Software
Nov 03 00:02:38 <sixwheeledbeast> grrr
Nov 03 00:03:05 <beford> MyDocs is the "big" partition, your music is supposed to be there
Nov 03 00:03:21 <Agge> aha
Nov 03 00:03:27 <sixwheeledbeast> ~optification
Nov 03 00:03:27 <infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
Nov 03 00:03:43 <Agge> sixwheeledbeast, nice domain but the adress don't work
Nov 03 00:03:57 <mashina_> why can't we live in a world where everyone's hapy with a single fat-ass / that doesn't arbitarily restrict you
Nov 03 00:04:05 <mashina_> people who like that shit can do it themselves
Nov 03 00:06:22 <sixwheeledbeast> I have everything on my uSD and backed up. MyDocs gets little use.
Nov 03 00:08:00 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: please keep an eye on that wiki stuff and help it staying sane, please
Nov 03 00:08:27 <sixwheeledbeast> Music, Documents etc all on uSD card, swap on uSD too. better to wear a removable flash card IMO.
Nov 03 00:08:43 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: I warned him about the confusion he will cause, and that nobody will be willing to verify all that supposedly better new stuff
Nov 03 00:09:20 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: since I am a wikibod I am trying to do just that.
Nov 03 00:09:44 <sixwheeledbeast> I agree with the confusion on ver2 also.
Nov 03 00:10:15 <Agge> should I move it to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Agge/foo instead?
Nov 03 00:11:33 <sixwheeledbeast> replace "foo" with name of your liking, probably "Flashing" is best IMO.
Nov 03 00:11:49 <Agge> I know
Nov 03 00:12:15 <sixwheeledbeast> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Agge/Flashing
Nov 03 00:12:59 <Agge> I did just use the pagename Doc suggested but if that is better I will move it
Nov 03 00:13:40 <sixwheeledbeast> and then nest stuff on subdirectories lower. So the link at the top of the page is up one. 
Nov 03 00:13:57 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: do you agree ^^^
Nov 03 00:14:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Nov 03 00:14:07 <sixwheeledbeast> I think it's best IMO
Nov 03 00:14:16 <Agge> right. vill fix that now
Nov 03 00:14:25 <sixwheeledbeast> thanks. :)
Nov 03 00:15:01 <Agge> np. I might have come across as rude but I am just trying to make it better for everyone
Nov 03 00:19:39 <Agge> so they should be moved
Nov 03 00:21:42 <sixwheeledbeast> I understand it not rude your trying to help, but sometimes it's best to leave things alone that have been around for ages :P
Nov 03 00:24:17 <Agge> I agree in allot of cases you shouldent change stuff that have worked for ages like pulseaudio and sytemd are doing. but somthime you need to check what the stuff still follow the orignal diractions and haven't been made hard to understand by allot of edits by different people.
Nov 03 00:26:10 <Agge> and somthimes it is best to do a compleate rewrite but keeping the all funktions identical to the old version
Nov 03 00:29:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, a dozen people thought exactly same during last ~3 years, studied the page thoroughly and after they understood all the info it has, they all decided to rather don't touch it
Nov 03 00:30:12 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-11-03 00:53:07] <sixwheeledbeast> I looked at reordering stuff there a while ago when "wiki gardening" I decided it was best not to for a number of reasons. It is the most visited page on the wiki next to CSSU. Any major re-structuring would cause havoc/confusion. It has evolved over the years to what it is now for a reason.
Nov 03 00:31:03 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-11-02 22:33:52] <DocScrutinizer05> since... the page been reviewed by literally thousands of users and everybody had to admit there are no errors and no missing info in it
Nov 03 00:31:58 <Agge> I feel that I understand it the info on the page now. But I still say it is a little confusing and not to beginner friendly
Nov 03 00:33:04 <DocScrutinizer05> it actually is very beginner friendly, since all the changes that got applied were done after some beginner ran into some trouble
Nov 03 00:33:22 <Agge> P.S. DocScrutinizer05 could you move your annserv in the discusion on how to fix the purple rectangle to the troubleshooting section?
Nov 03 00:34:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll check and consider - eventually
Nov 03 00:35:11 <Agge> the page contains to much information in the and that is what I feel that is what the problem is in the end. that is why I put some stuff in separate pages
Nov 03 00:36:24 <DocScrutinizer05> all that info got added on request of beginners like you
Nov 03 00:36:39 <DocScrutinizer05> refer to [2013-11-03 01:33:22] <Agge> P.S. DocScrutinizer05 could you move your annserv in the discusion on how to fix the purple rectangle to the troubleshooting section?
Nov 03 00:37:16 <Agge> yeah I see the irony in asking to add info and saying that it alredy is to much info
Nov 03 00:37:59 <Agge> it is to much info that is repeated or close to repeated to get a good overview on how it is suposed to work 
Nov 03 00:38:34 <DocScrutinizer05> next user will complain that there's incorrect info, since for him the rectangles are black
Nov 03 00:40:17 <Agge> and the one after that might complain that he is collor blind and don't know what colore his rectangels are. so just whrite rectangels or "test this if the device boot strange"
Nov 03 00:40:41 <DocScrutinizer05> next user after that doesn't encounter rectangles at all, but gets stuck on some other point, due to same root cause
Nov 03 00:42:12 <DocScrutinizer05> typical beginner's mistake: extrapolate from own single instance experience to the general case
Nov 03 00:43:26 <Agge> meh I know. just that I found a pervius coment about the exact same error that I got in the discusion but noware on the main page.
Nov 03 00:44:08 <Agge> you could always make it an forever growing "diffferent errors and solutions" pages :)
Nov 03 01:40:32 <DocScrutinizer05> the error and solution is always the same: eMMC got flashed after first-boot optification started (no matter if that optification been 18months ago or immediately before eMMC flash and after rootfs flash due to accidental boot of device), and solution is to flash rootfs again.  The SYMPTOMS however are manifold.
Nov 03 01:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> this problem got discribed in all verbosity on the flashing wikipage
Nov 03 01:41:30 <DocScrutinizer05> described even
Nov 03 01:41:56 <Agge> then add: For any boot errors try to reflash the rootfs to fix it.
Nov 03 01:42:39 <Agge> the problem is described but not the solution
Nov 03 01:44:20 <DocScrutinizer05> >>If you cannot establish a connection with N900, or got any other problems during starting or completing the flashing process, do the following steps which describe the complete foolproof flashing procedure again in terse form<<
Nov 03 01:44:46 <mashina_> people are so scared by flashing they lose common sense
Nov 03 01:44:56 * mashina_ suffers from this condition
Nov 03 01:45:12 <mashina_> lucky i managed to do it right
Nov 03 01:45:21 <Agge> and that sentence is in no way clear on what you are talking about
Nov 03 01:45:30 <Agge> "terse"?
Nov 03 01:46:01 <DocScrutinizer05> ohwell, I can't help then.
Nov 03 01:47:14 <DocScrutinizer05> >>
Nov 03 01:47:16 <DocScrutinizer05> When flashing the eMMC content, the safe way is flash the eMMC/VANILLA image first, then remove battery for a moment, and then flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image. Do not boot up the device between the two i.e do NOT use the -R parameter at the end!
Nov 03 01:47:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Also see troubleshooting section, bullet 6:"If you cannot establish..."
Nov 03 01:47:19 <DocScrutinizer05> <<
Nov 03 01:47:59 <Agge> and you might want to make "the complete foolproof flashing procedure" a real section insted in troubleshooting of hiding it among the rest among the rest of the stuff
Nov 03 01:48:57 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, if that's not clear enough then pretty please write your own better instructions and linger around here 24/7. I'll happily forward every user who got any problems with flashing to you
Nov 03 01:50:58 * DocScrutinizer05 is fed up with users criticizing to excuse their own refusal to follow the advice to READ THE WHOLE DAMN WIKIPAGE, FROM *START* TIL *END*
Nov 03 01:51:12 <Agge> "4. Start flasher with above mentioned command to flash". you are aware that about all of the comands in the whole page is above that line?
Nov 03 01:51:59 <DocScrutinizer05> you are aware that you're starting to bore me?
Nov 03 01:53:24 <Agge> right now I am just responding on what you are writing. left the topic about 1h ago
Nov 03 01:53:27 <Agge> anyway I would be more motivated to take the "READ THE WHOLE DAMN WIKIPAGE, FROM *START* TIL *END" if it dident include instrucktions on installing the programs to flash on two OS that I do not use
Nov 03 01:54:01 <Agge> and I vill update the rev2/troubleshooting tomorrow
Nov 03 01:54:14 <DocScrutinizer05> then pretty please go buy an android phone and go away!
Nov 03 01:54:44 <Agge> good night. this have been a interesting discussion.
Nov 03 01:55:04 <Agge> and I already own 2 androids :)
Nov 03 01:56:45 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, what makes you think we're intersted in your *motivation* to follow advice you asked for?
Nov 03 01:58:11 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody here is selling N900
Nov 03 01:58:23 <DocScrutinizer05> any nobody has Nokia shares I guess
Nov 03 01:59:21 <Agge> ?
Nov 03 01:59:48 * DocScrutinizer05 notices that after 17h of first level helpdesk he feels a strange urge to mistreat somebody
Nov 03 02:01:27 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly when users explain they are not *motivated* to read the howto
Nov 03 02:02:33 <DocScrutinizer05> since it contains info that's not 100% applicable to their particular case
Nov 03 02:02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> AAAAAARGGGHHHH!!!! >:-(
Nov 03 02:03:59 <Agge> ok your are right. that sentence was written in the wrong way. sorry.
Nov 03 02:05:02 <Agge> but would it make the information less acuret if it was split between different pages one for every OS? that could even make it so that less users had to ask for help
Nov 03 02:05:21 <sono> dude.
Nov 03 02:07:04 <Agge> and why not make the foolproof way the primary way when flashing both images from linux?
Nov 03 02:07:27 <DocScrutinizer05> BECAUSE
Nov 03 02:07:55 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry
Nov 03 02:09:19 <sono> doc: relax we rely on you to build our new phones =D
Nov 03 02:09:22 <DocScrutinizer05> 2 years ago I had kickbanned him 3h ago, I guess
Nov 03 02:09:25 <sono> not worth it.
Nov 03 02:10:05 <DocScrutinizer05> right
Nov 03 02:10:15 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why +q
Nov 03 02:15:21 <DocScrutinizer05> sono: if it was the Neo900 flashing page...
Nov 03 02:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> but it's the damn generic maemo flashing page, created 2008-05-27T06:00:35 
Nov 03 02:17:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and in use in the form it's now, since ~3 years, without major modifications
Nov 03 02:19:08 <DocScrutinizer05> (New page: FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux 1. Before flashing 2. Flashing the Nokia 770 3. Flashing the Nokia N800 4. Flashing the Nokia N810 5. Troubleshooting Before flashing Bewar...)
Nov 03 02:19:49 <DocScrutinizer05> NB: NO separate pages for 770&windows, 770&mac, 770&linux, 800&windows....
Nov 03 02:22:09 <Agge2> Sorry.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 03 02:59:58 2013