**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 15 02:59:59 2013 Nov 15 06:40:52 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/15/jolla_phones_to_ship_in_november/ Nov 15 10:38:06 did anyone think about google service(google music/play) adding it at Musikloud ? Nov 15 11:05:19 LTE is planned for neo900, but which frequencys will be supported if you go ahead with the planned modem for that? Nov 15 11:09:50 tried to research this a bit, but didn't find what I was looking for Nov 15 11:12:00 it's a protocol... using the LTE feature and is an hardware upgrade such as a plugging thing for with microusb Nov 15 11:12:14 the protocol does not mean frequency Nov 15 11:12:36 the protocol LTE support all its frequencys Nov 15 11:16:23 zemmy: from what I understand regarding mobile connectivity, operators operate on different frequencies for each protocol (i.e. UMTS, LTE, etc) and that the module used for the connectivity has to support it on at least one of these to be able to use it Nov 15 11:16:49 perhaps my question wasn't clear enough Nov 15 11:17:42 FIQ: specific chips for the neo900 have not been decided on, afaik. Also, there is #neo900 ;) Nov 15 11:18:19 for example, my current operator has 4 different LTE networks, and one of the alternatives looked at (GTM801) supports 3 of them (found the "feasibility" document), so it seems fine Nov 15 11:18:22 yes... frequency is part or that protocol... UMTS and GSM and LTE are all protocols... using different frequencies... that's right... but LTE uses all its frequencies... do you want to read more on wikipedia? maybe you wish reading about your country frequency bandwidth Nov 15 11:18:42 kolp: all right, didn't know that, ty Nov 15 11:18:46 @ #neo900 existed Nov 15 11:19:26 #neo900 Nov 15 11:19:32 zemmy: I already found the frequency bandwidth list for my operator, it's fine Nov 15 11:19:43 alright then Nov 15 15:13:05 hello. I have rather unusual problem. I have 3 N900, 1 have busted modem. I am trying to get bootmenu-backupmenu working on one with busted modem. It was working previously, even after full reflash (excluding CMT). Now no matter what I do I cannot seam to make backupmenu working. I would appreatiate any insight. Nov 15 15:15:13 BTW. The problem is on my 1st n900. I just have reflashed my 2nd n900 and backupmenu is working there. Nov 15 15:34:11 Does backupmenu install? Does it start? Nov 15 15:52:10 This has probably been asked before but I'm finding it hard locating a topic about it... Since MS has acquired the devices division of Nokia... does this mean any of the Nokia-owned portions of Maemo are now owned by MS? Does this pose a problem? Nov 15 15:52:27 Or did MS just get the Lumia-related line of devices Nov 15 15:52:47 stevenm, maemo is open source and run by the community now Nov 15 15:53:12 GI_Jack, I thought it still had some ties to Nokia left - or did all the closed source stuff get re-implemented? Nov 15 15:53:35 stevenm, closed source stuff, no, but the community still maintains the software, and releases new updates Nov 15 15:53:43 and adds new features Nov 15 15:53:50 there is even a community kernel Nov 15 15:54:12 GI_Jack, how can it maintain the closed source stuff without the source? if nokia has it (and now MS has it) then there is a question about how co-operative they'll be going forward. Nov 15 15:54:20 nokia has completely abandoned the n900 Nov 15 15:54:29 there is no more support for it Nov 15 15:54:38 closed source things are going to be things like hardware drivers Nov 15 15:54:45 things like the kernel are open, and customizable Nov 15 15:55:05 well drivers are still important - as is stuff like the skype integration and flash Nov 15 15:55:08 its a tad of a stumbling block because its stuck at kernel 2.6.28, because nothing later will really work Nov 15 15:55:15 stevenm, it doesn't change, same as is Nov 15 15:55:19 nokia clearly had partnerships with both to integrate those Nov 15 15:55:46 well no, skype and flash closed source bits don't get maintained really Nov 15 15:55:53 adobe ported flash 10 a while ago, but that was it Nov 15 15:55:58 it runs slow as dogshit anyway Nov 15 15:56:08 but they are a part of maemo - heck skype is integrated with telepathy Nov 15 15:56:37 they aren't just willy nilly importing new versions from upstream if thats what your asking Nov 15 15:56:59 no that's not what I'm asking Nov 15 15:57:31 some vauge concept of "rights" Nov 15 15:57:40 I am sure ms owns the IP rights to the phone Nov 15 15:58:06 maemo is enough open source it would be able to work as a community project, none of the closed components are critical Nov 15 15:58:10 I'm asking what has Nokia(MS) got left... that should/could be given up to the maemo community to make it more independent... clearly they still have the code to some important bits like drivers, but also useful shared source agreements with skype/flash - and that's just my small understanding - probably more than that Nov 15 15:58:53 well making/receiving calls, making/receiving texts and such is important, using 3g properly, etc.. they're important - as I understand it even nitdroid don't have all that working Nov 15 15:58:56 stevenm, thats just not going to happen, given they got bought out by microsoft Nov 15 15:59:06 GI_Jack, precisely my point Nov 15 15:59:48 existing closed source bits need to be re-used as is, meaning using the same kernel 2.6.28, but you can recompile it, and backport features Nov 15 16:00:10 you couldn't today - recompile and release a full version of maemo for the n900... not without their help. In short the 'maemo community' is a community that pecks and tweaks a dead OS from a company that has turned they're back on it Nov 15 16:00:15 such as the community kernel has a whole host of normal linux features re-added Nov 15 16:00:40 the only remedy is to release a maemo that is re-implemented in a way that can be totally re-producable solely by that community Nov 15 16:00:56 or.... http://neo900.org/ Nov 15 16:01:17 maemo is reproducable, if you made your own hardware, with your own drivers, something in the works Nov 15 16:01:19 see the link Nov 15 16:01:30 flash and skype should still run on it Nov 15 16:02:21 no maemo isn't reproducable on n900 Nov 15 16:02:50 not unless maemo is altered (stripped of bits that can be re-produced) so then it can call itself entirely reproducable Nov 15 16:02:57 *can't be Nov 15 16:03:04 *can't be re-produced Nov 15 16:03:08 you get what i mean Nov 15 16:05:17 yeah Nov 15 16:05:43 its reproducable if you copy the closed source bits, if you want to port it to another device you need drivers Nov 15 16:06:13 copying!=reproduce Nov 15 16:06:53 so short of a nightime raid on nokia now microsoft's facilities, thats not likely to happen Nov 15 16:07:16 the neo900 will be a motherboard replacement with 4G LTE, a faster chip, and well...open drivers Nov 15 16:07:43 except 3d as far as I understood Nov 15 16:08:16 which kinda defeats the point, although it looks like an n900 - it's not, it's based off a gta04... and it's not likely that maemo will be pushed as a recommended os for it Nov 15 16:10:18 actually, it is expected to become the recommended os Nov 15 16:11:11 anYc, how can it be expected to be the recommended OS when maemo hasn't even had a rerelease that a) has the non-closed stuff taken out and b) is available for more than one device! Nov 15 16:11:12 I would expect so, due to the support and packages from here. Nov 15 16:11:19 the neo900 isn't really an n900 Nov 15 16:11:54 unless there is a downloadable maemo image/installer for another phone that isn't an n900? Nov 15 16:12:13 because if not then it's just a team of people tinkering with old abandoned firmware Nov 15 16:12:35 anything what is not exactly same in both hardware and software isn't n900, stop arging fact Nov 15 16:13:59 I wish I could get some normal GNU/Linux distro working on SS4, but I didn't hear that's possible yet Nov 15 16:14:01 not that I'm a fan of the ubuntu touch phone thingy os (whatever the heck they're calling it now)... but at least there is a list of devices it can be installed on and instructions Nov 15 16:14:23 maemo is an n900 only, tweaked version of what is left from a nokia premade image Nov 15 16:14:41 I don't know their plans for flash & skype but they're working on the remaining parts to create an open phone (except the firmware stuff) Nov 15 16:14:46 I'd be fine, if I could get GNU userland running alongside Android on popular android phones Nov 15 16:14:59 GI_Jack, yeah that'd be nice Nov 15 16:15:00 if you are displeased with SP of our times, then build your own from scratch - nobody is preventing you from doing that Nov 15 16:15:15 the SP? Nov 15 16:15:17 the closeds I've seen is a port of busybox Nov 15 16:15:32 why alongside android? Nov 15 16:15:41 WizardNumberNext, I'll get right on that, and I'll mabey have to pay $10k for a phone, because of volume of scale Nov 15 16:15:52 and I don't have the man hours to put in, nor the research facility Nov 15 16:15:54 if on VM, then I understand, but android would be guest in my scheme Nov 15 16:16:00 i'm not displeased with maemo if that's what you mean... as an OS it rocks (more than meego)... i just want to see it _actually_ become a portable OS... not just the leftover firmware that only runs on the hardware it was designed for Nov 15 16:16:13 that's the first step - not this neo900 Nov 15 16:17:23 I would love to see maemo on other devices, apart from hw dependable code, rest can happily run even os ss4 Nov 15 16:17:48 or any portable working phone OS, that works with a good number of modems and sound cards Nov 15 16:17:57 the bare essentials to work as a phone Nov 15 16:18:13 WizardNumberNext, 'os ss4'? Nov 15 16:18:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages Nov 15 16:18:40 GI_Jack: Linux Kernel is very portable and can run on many SP Nov 15 16:18:57 s/even os ss4/even on ss4 Nov 15 16:18:59 WizardNumberNext, its not the kernel, its drivers Nov 15 16:19:02 s/even os ss4/even on ss4/ Nov 15 16:19:02 WizardNumberNext meant: s/even on ss4/even on ss4 Nov 15 16:19:21 Android already runs on those devices so the kernel is not the issue Nov 15 16:19:23 woah that's a lot more closed packages than I thought Nov 15 16:19:32 drivers are in krernel Nov 15 16:19:42 loads of them - just have a look Nov 15 16:19:46 I know Nov 15 16:19:51 and of course the reason why the maemo community can't make a whole new image right? instead it's just "install the lastest one from nokia then..." Nov 15 16:19:59 3.8 support almost every single device in n900 Nov 15 16:20:03 not main camera Nov 15 16:20:10 WizardNumberNext, what about the modem Nov 15 16:20:19 the most important part of the phone, the HPSA+ modem Nov 15 16:20:38 I assume you can get any samsung exynos based device fully working on linux Nov 15 16:20:53 that's biggest problem Nov 15 16:21:00 this server... tablets-dev.nokia.com is it nokias? (ms's?) if it went offline, who else has the right to re-distribute that firmware? Nov 15 16:21:25 because once it's not officially available... a completely reimplemented maemo version (with installer image) is really really needed Nov 15 16:21:26 because in most cases you won't ever get specsheet Nov 15 16:22:46 stevenm, I don't think that simple installer would work on all devices - you would some flashers for different devices and installing OS on SP - this something what I would never attempt Nov 15 16:22:59 flashing OS - yes, but installing - no way Nov 15 16:23:31 sod an installer... just an image file that can be downloaded without contacting a nokia server would be nice Nov 15 16:25:04 step 2 would be a second image for some other phone Nov 15 16:25:30 *then* you can call Maemo an OS that stands on it's own apart from nokia/ms and works multiplatform Nov 15 16:25:48 and not just a set of packages to bolt on to ex-nokia firmware Nov 15 16:26:39 anyway I still have no idea why I cannot get backupmenu working Nov 15 16:56:28 hm i should look into the kernel related stuff, i just harldy have the time to even play with my current n900 Nov 15 16:57:27 i am sure we will not be forced to use nokia 2.6 for neo900 maemo, whatever that will be or look like in userland. Nov 15 16:58:00 it wouldn't even make sense (or work) Nov 15 16:58:20 doc has to carve out the specs Nov 15 17:03:34 stevenm: creating the neo900 and getting rid of closed blobs in maemo are parallel efforts. They're neither mutually exclusive nor technically related Nov 15 17:04:52 That was re: that's the first step - not this neo900 Nov 15 18:30:10 Does anyone have a suggestion for a good tablet that runs something closes to a standard gnu/linux distribution? Nov 15 18:37:17 maybe PengPod? Nov 15 18:40:06 lexik, Thanks! I'll take a look at that one. Nov 15 19:44:19 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Nov 16 02:24:40 why do i have so many spare batteries? oh yeah, i cannabalized all those C3s Nov 16 02:50:44 haha **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 16 02:59:59 2013