**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 17 03:00:00 2013
Dec 17 08:31:39 <paranoik> Hi guys. I have an old N900 with damaged mainboard(gsm, gps chips and usb port broken, vibrator damaged) and I would like to sacrifice its parts for Neo900
Dec 17 08:32:31 <zamn900> you... dirty... tell me.. did ya use it as sex toy?
Dec 17 08:32:53 <paranoik> it was amazing
Dec 17 08:32:57 <zamn900> why vibrator damaged and acid damaged
Dec 17 08:33:24 <paranoik> I bought it with these components damaged
Dec 17 08:33:46 <zamn900> oh... i am deeply sorry
Dec 17 08:34:25 <paranoik> I guess that at least the display connector could be used for Neo
Dec 17 08:35:01 <zamn900> idk...
Dec 17 08:35:09 <zamn900> go in #neo900
Dec 17 08:35:41 <zamn900> I just awaked now from an erotic dream
Dec 17 08:35:52 <paranoik> when I saw your first reply I understood that it is the wrong channel :)
Dec 17 08:37:48 <zamn900> lol
Dec 17 08:37:54 <zamn900> ahahahahahhahahhahahhahahha
Dec 17 08:38:09 <zamn900> i am rolling at floor
Dec 17 08:39:26 * jaska hits faari with a rotten baltic herring.
Dec 17 09:31:40 <grr> moin :)
Dec 17 09:53:17 <DocScrutinizer05> damn, he left
Dec 17 12:12:30 <DocScrutinizer05> >> j_o_l_l_a \n coming doon! \n your Limited Edition The Other Half will be shipped in the next few weeks. \n We'll send an email confirmation with shipping details<< 
Dec 17 12:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> nice surprise in that parcel that arrived today
Dec 17 12:13:07 <DocScrutinizer05> s/doon/soon/
Dec 17 12:19:12 <zGrr> I've read on the other day, that jolla is planning to release new model with hw keyboard (N810 style) and larger 1080p display.
Dec 17 12:20:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ping
Dec 17 12:20:10 <infobot> ~pong
Dec 17 12:20:58 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Dec 17 12:21:13 <DocScrutinizer05> and WTF?! tmo down?
Dec 17 12:21:19 <zGrr> That would be cool. 
Dec 17 12:21:38 <zGrr> If they don't screw up the system software.
Dec 17 12:22:01 <zGrr> Like N9
Dec 17 12:28:48 <Wizzup> zGrr: source on this? :) 
Dec 17 12:29:45 <zGrr> Wizzup:  I don't remember.  I'll go through my bookmarks.
Dec 17 12:30:14 <Wizzup> thx
Dec 17 12:37:45 <DocScrutinizer05> could somebody please test
Dec 17 12:37:48 <DocScrutinizer05> host -a ct.de 217.0.43.177
Dec 17 12:37:50 <DocScrutinizer05> for me?
Dec 17 12:38:41 <DocScrutinizer05> THREE dns servers are down for me, giving me headache doing anything on internet
Dec 17 12:38:51 <DocScrutinizer05> 8.8.8.8 works great though
Dec 17 12:38:57 <Hakki_> no answer
Dec 17 12:38:58 <wnd> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
Dec 17 12:39:13 <DocScrutinizer05> so it's not me but germany down on DNS :-o
Dec 17 12:39:34 <zGrr> Wizzup:  it was that page, I saw on the other day: http://jollasuomi.fi/erittain-hieno-fani-konsepti-jollan-seuraavasta-puhelimesta/
Dec 17 12:41:28 <DocScrutinizer05> Hakki_: wnd: thanks!
Dec 17 12:42:19 <Wizzup> ah, that is .. totally comprehensible
Dec 17 12:42:33 * Wizzup gtranslates
Dec 17 12:43:07 <Wizzup> It does say fan-concept
Dec 17 12:43:08 <Wizzup> no?
Dec 17 12:43:16 <wnd> it does
Dec 17 12:43:18 <zGrr> Oh
Dec 17 12:43:41 <zGrr> IC. Too beautiful to be true.
Dec 17 12:44:12 <zGrr> They probably can't afford another launch anyway.
Dec 17 12:44:52 <wnd> also, I don't get idea of phones large enough to be chopping boards
Dec 17 12:45:49 <zGrr> All so called phones, are too large anyway.
Dec 17 12:46:18 <zGrr> I actually liked the size of N810. 
Dec 17 12:46:45 <wnd> it's fine as a pda
Dec 17 12:47:06 <zGrr> N900 was bit smallish, though it had better, more comfortable keyboard.
Dec 17 12:47:38 <zGrr> Or IS smallish, since I still use it every day.
Dec 17 12:48:33 <wnd> I wouldn't mind if my n900 was slightly smaller
Dec 17 12:49:19 <wnd> but then again there are occasions when the opposite would also be true
Dec 17 12:49:44 <ampharos> i'd be ok with N800 form factor if it didn't have the hump
Dec 17 12:49:52 <ampharos> i never touched N810 so dunno
Dec 17 12:50:17 <zGrr> Battery life is always an issue. You just can't have small smartphone with decent battery life. 
Dec 17 12:50:33 <wnd> but yeah, I think I prefer n810's overall shape, or relative dimensions
Dec 17 12:51:34 <zGrr> Semi-smart, could be done, but who wants a semi-smart phone these days anyway?
Dec 17 12:51:39 <wnd> we have an android phone as a "support line" at work. it's samsungs's candy bar phone using 3G network, it automagically updates emails and such, and the battery lasts for over a week.
Dec 17 12:52:06 <wnd> of course it doesn't have active users as is
Dec 17 12:53:02 <zGrr> Never had Samsung. Some friends told me, it has good battery life but I never had any chance touch it.
Dec 17 12:53:44 <wnd> I don't really know which model it is, but it's considerably smaller than n900, and I believe it was one of the cheapest available
Dec 17 12:57:05 <zGrr> I think of buying nice, small feature phone to replace my annoying N9. 
Dec 17 13:42:55 <DocScrutinizer05> there are instances where I could shoot down KDE with a MTHEL. One such instance is when kio_http hogs all 4096 nat sessions of my router, to talk to the router HTTP
Dec 17 13:43:29 <DocScrutinizer05> which conveniently brings down everything incl DNS lookup on public DNS servers
Dec 17 13:46:58 <jaska> wtf.
Dec 17 13:51:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, actually my primary DNS server has an "issue", so I switched to 8.8.8.8 for now (OUCH!), but the kio_idiots were busy to try and find out about dunnowhat and kio_fubar doesn't terminate when you close the app that invoked it
Dec 17 13:51:53 <DocScrutinizer05> it goes on and on and on
Dec 17 13:52:28 <DocScrutinizer05> usually it just keeps downloading youtube videos you closed a 20 min ago. This time it retried connecting to dunno what
Dec 17 13:54:26 <DocScrutinizer05> now I'm wasted after 1h of DEFCON-1
Dec 17 13:54:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I already thought something rooted my PC
Dec 17 13:56:37 <jaska> o.O
Dec 17 14:00:03 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: why are you not running your own resolver? :(
Dec 17 14:00:27 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Dec 17 14:00:45 <jon_y> you can enforce DNS signing checks for extra paranoia :)
Dec 17 14:01:00 <jon_y> your own resolving DNS server for networks under your control
Dec 17 14:01:11 <DocScrutinizer05> because this OpenSuse distro is configured that way by default? I didn't know I'm "running my own resolver"
Dec 17 14:01:21 <jon_y> or better yet, on every device capable of accessing the internet
Dec 17 14:01:37 <jon_y> unbound is pretty easy to setup
Dec 17 14:01:48 <DocScrutinizer05> what would that help?
Dec 17 14:01:48 <jon_y> bind is fine too if you don't mind the learning curve
Dec 17 14:02:19 <jon_y> its just that I come from a country where ISP is blatantly fucjking with the DNS for censorship
Dec 17 14:02:36 <jon_y> and supposed anti-piracy efforts
Dec 17 14:02:52 <DocScrutinizer05> well, so what's the solutions, except using a different DNS?
Dec 17 14:03:02 <jon_y> do your own lookup
Dec 17 14:03:13 <DocScrutinizer05> errr
Dec 17 14:03:15 <jon_y> have your local DNS query from the root
Dec 17 14:03:24 <DocScrutinizer05> you're aware that DNS is hierarchical?
Dec 17 14:03:29 <jon_y> yes
Dec 17 14:03:38 <jon_y> don't trust the ISP server
Dec 17 14:03:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't
Dec 17 14:03:53 <jon_y> not even 8.8.8.8
Dec 17 14:03:57 <jon_y> or opendns
Dec 17 14:04:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I picked my own DNS 
Dec 17 14:04:12 <jon_y> there used to be 4.4.4.2 but it died
Dec 17 14:04:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and obviously 8.8.8.8 is EVIL
Dec 17 14:04:41 <jon_y> anyway, the top level domains are signed
Dec 17 14:04:46 <DocScrutinizer05> but the DNS I picked went south
Dec 17 14:04:49 <jon_y> so at least 1 level of defense
Dec 17 14:05:11 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think I could query tld
Dec 17 14:05:25 <jon_y> what do you mean?
Dec 17 14:05:32 <jon_y> dig com.?
Dec 17 14:06:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder what DNS you suggest I should query, and how using my own resolver does change anything with the issues this DNs might give me
Dec 17 14:07:09 <jon_y> oh NAT died
Dec 17 14:07:31 <jon_y> yeah, nothing much you can do about it
Dec 17 14:07:53 <DocScrutinizer05> no, the DNS I configured since I know it's run by good guys died
Dec 17 14:08:01 <jon_y> except maybe a more intelligent firewall to limit your kio_http
Dec 17 14:08:30 <jon_y> the next best thing is to look it up from root
Dec 17 14:08:44 <DocScrutinizer05> then kio went mad on that 32byte reply for everything, and then kio killed my NAT
Dec 17 14:08:44 <jon_y> it is how I got around government DNS blocks
Dec 17 14:09:22 <jon_y> anyway, this is best used against ISPs messing around with DNS
Dec 17 14:09:34 <jon_y> or if you want to be independent on any single DNS provider
Dec 17 14:09:57 <jon_y> there are at least half a dozen root dns servers, all signed of course
Dec 17 14:10:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's why I originally configured my very own set of DNS addr in resolv.conf
Dec 17 14:10:19 <jon_y> you point your dns to root?
Dec 17 14:10:27 <jon_y> in /etc/resolv.conf?
Dec 17 14:10:31 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Dec 17 14:10:37 <jon_y> I don't think that would work
Dec 17 14:10:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I point it to IP of a DNS server of some nice little company I know
Dec 17 14:11:30 <jon_y> I am saying that now they are gone, the next best course of action is to run your own recursive resolver
Dec 17 14:11:39 <DocScrutinizer05> who I know doesn't give sh*t about spying on their 3000 customers
Dec 17 14:11:54 <jon_y> your network will query the resolver, the resolver will look up the records from root
Dec 17 14:12:10 <jon_y> it is slower than google or opendns, but more secure
Dec 17 14:12:12 <DocScrutinizer05> what ever root is
Dec 17 14:12:30 <jon_y> and easier to bring up if it goes down
Dec 17 14:12:47 <jon_y> root means the DNS responsible for top "." domain
Dec 17 14:13:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think they are open to john doe
Dec 17 14:13:31 <jon_y> they would know where the servers delegated for com, org, net etc
Dec 17 14:13:36 <jon_y> they are, I am using them now
Dec 17 14:14:42 <jon_y> the only hard part is setting up a recursive resolver, which is to say bind or unbound
Dec 17 14:15:03 <jon_y> once you have that up, just have your local dhcp or what not point to it
Dec 17 14:15:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and then you say I shall run my own DNS here for my LAN?
Dec 17 14:15:39 <jon_y> yes
Dec 17 14:15:44 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like a hell of configuration
Dec 17 14:15:55 <jon_y> it's pretty low maintenance
Dec 17 14:16:08 <DocScrutinizer05> uhhmmm
Dec 17 14:16:09 <jon_y> I have mine running for 2 years already without messing with it
Dec 17 14:17:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah sure, just tell me how to make the DD-WRT tell all the Nxx0 devices and other appliences to use my local DNS which I also have to run on a 24/7 on machine
Dec 17 14:17:29 <jon_y> do you have a 24/7 machine?
Dec 17 14:17:36 <DocScrutinizer05> not really
Dec 17 14:17:44 <jon_y> :(
Dec 17 14:17:57 <jon_y> some DD-WRT routers are big enough to run their own resolvers
Dec 17 14:18:04 <jon_y> not sure which model you have
Dec 17 14:18:26 <jaska> dnsmasq needs something to forward to
Dec 17 14:18:27 <jon_y> raspberry pi is awesome for this :)
Dec 17 14:18:32 <jaska> smallest i can think of is pdns-recursor
Dec 17 14:18:33 <DocScrutinizer05> Linksys WRT54G/GL/GS
Dec 17 14:18:53 <jon_y> is that the newest model?
Dec 17 14:19:05 <jon_y> iirc the newer model is pretty sucky
Dec 17 14:19:09 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly not, given it's at least 4 years old
Dec 17 14:19:11 <jaska> no its the old good model.. atleast older g and gl
Dec 17 14:19:28 <jaska> wrt54gl is what i have at home running tomato.. ive seen it with uptimes 500+ days
Dec 17 14:19:49 <jon_y> the old model had double the amount of RAM
Dec 17 14:20:00 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that's about what mine had too... until 1h ago :-S
Dec 17 14:20:37 <jon_y> well, if you do get another smallish device like a rpi, it should run a dns server nicely
Dec 17 14:20:44 <jon_y> it can live behind NAT
Dec 17 14:21:01 <jon_y> have whatever router DHCP config point to it
Dec 17 14:21:23 <jon_y> I don't know what Dlink thought it was doing to screw over buyers
Dec 17 14:21:37 <jon_y> I mean Linksys
Dec 17 14:23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> DLink omg
Dec 17 14:23:29 <jon_y> jaska: does pdns-recursor do DNSSEC?
Dec 17 14:23:40 <jaska> hmm
Dec 17 14:23:42 <jaska> not sure
Dec 17 14:23:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I nuked that dlink shit and got me this dd-wrt from a friend
Dec 17 14:23:45 <jon_y> your NAT might not like it though
Dec 17 14:24:41 <jon_y> you can check with:
Dec 17 14:24:46 <jaska> looks like no dnssec validation yet
Dec 17 14:24:48 <jon_y> dig +dnssec AAAA in .gov.
Dec 17 14:24:53 <jon_y> or A for ipv4
Dec 17 14:25:10 <jon_y> it should point you to servers in control of the gov domain
Dec 17 14:25:29 <jon_y> query for "." is fine too, since TLDs are also signed
Dec 17 14:25:43 <DocScrutinizer05> dig: '.gov.' is not a legal name (empty label)
Dec 17 14:25:57 <jon_y> huh
Dec 17 14:26:06 <jon_y> fine, whitehouse.gov
Dec 17 14:26:28 <jon_y> at least bind dig allows .gov.
Dec 17 14:26:40 <jon_y> from ISC Bind
Dec 17 14:26:54 <Hakki> dig +dnssec AAAA in gov.
Dec 17 14:26:57 <Hakki> works better
Dec 17 14:27:20 <jon_y> google's 8.8.8.8 supports dnssec
Dec 17 14:39:47 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: reducing the NAT ttl helps wonders if you have too many connections
Dec 17 14:40:14 <jon_y> it would help the NAT daemon to forget certain port associations
Dec 17 14:47:18 <DocScrutinizer05> jon_y: I know
Dec 17 14:48:54 <DocScrutinizer05> let's see, the router had 4080some open sessions 20s after rebooting it
Dec 17 14:49:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ~4080/20
Dec 17 14:49:29 <infobot> 204
Dec 17 14:49:50 <jaska> thats pretty wtf.
Dec 17 14:50:46 <DocScrutinizer05> now tell me, how long may NAT keep a session before dropping it, to keep up with that rate of new sessions created?
Dec 17 14:51:02 <jaska> what sort of nat device is it? linux?
Dec 17 14:51:11 <DocScrutinizer05> dd-wrt
Dec 17 14:52:53 <DocScrutinizer05> kio_foo is foobar
Dec 17 15:04:51 <warfare> DocScrutinizer05: Usual timeout for established nat entries is 5 days. 
Dec 17 15:05:44 <warfare> DocScrutinizer05: Have a look in /proc/sys/net/ipv4/netfilter/ 
Dec 17 15:09:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I reduced it to some 2 or 3 minutes
Dec 17 15:09:21 <DocScrutinizer05> on that dd-wrt
Dec 17 15:10:22 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway after killall kio-http the number of connections droped from 4090 to ~30 during maybe 3 minutes
Dec 17 15:10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> dropped*
Dec 17 15:11:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I dunno what that kio_crap is doing, since netstat didn't show anything unusual
Dec 17 15:50:59 <kerio> DocScrutinizer!
Dec 17 16:31:57 <DocScrutinizer05> WUT?
Dec 17 16:32:22 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: ?
Dec 17 16:32:35 <kerio> i have a first-level math degree :D
Dec 17 16:32:53 <DocScrutinizer05> so that's your excuse to highlight me?
Dec 17 16:32:59 <kerio> eyup!
Dec 17 16:36:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I really dunno how you degree is relevant
Dec 17 16:37:29 <kerio> well, i got it like 2 hours ago
Dec 17 16:37:57 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, fine :-)
Dec 17 16:38:07 <DocScrutinizer05> congrats
Dec 17 16:38:16 <kerio> :D
Dec 17 18:13:38 <merlin1991> congratz kerio
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 18 02:59:59 2013