**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 12 02:59:59 2014
Jan 12 05:18:07 <b1101> well, I'm making offers for an n900 on ebay. 
Jan 12 05:18:18 <b1101> I want my baby back
Jan 12 05:19:11 <Luke-Jr> Mozilla still has a ton <.<
Jan 12 05:19:35 <b1101> huh
Jan 12 05:20:20 <b1101> are they selling them somewhere ?
Jan 12 05:20:46 <Luke-Jr> no, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701784
Jan 12 05:20:48 <povbot> 04Bug 701784: was not found.
Jan 12 05:22:29 <b1101> ah
Jan 12 15:13:13 <_ade_> sixwheeledbeast: ping
Jan 12 15:13:34 <sixwheeledbeast> _ade_: ping
Jan 12 15:13:41 <sixwheeledbeast> pong even
Jan 12 15:14:44 <_ade_> could you download/install easylist once more using the dropbox link?
Jan 12 15:15:18 <sixwheeledbeast> ok
Jan 12 15:18:27 <_ade_> and then: mv /home/user/.config/EasyList/listItems.conf /home/user/.config/EasyList/listItems.conf.old 
Jan 12 15:18:41 <_ade_> to start with a fresh item list
Jan 12 15:22:05 <sixwheeledbeast> done, still the same with the strike-through
Jan 12 15:24:49 <_ade_> if you start it using /opt/easylist/bin/easylist, does it throw any specific errors?
Jan 12 15:25:19 <_ade_> once you do a clean command
Jan 12 15:25:40 <_ade_> btw: you are using the thumb version?
Jan 12 15:27:23 <sixwheeledbeast> no not thumb on this device, BTW
Jan 12 15:28:56 <_ade_> when I should test the non-thumb again. I assumed thumb use.
Jan 12 15:30:30 <sixwheeledbeast> I have a few devices with different setups. I can try the thumb one if that would help?
Jan 12 15:30:50 <_ade_> lemme test non-thumb first
Jan 12 15:32:57 <_ade_> works fine here...
Jan 12 15:33:52 <_ade_> but you could try the latest thumb one on a different device if you want
Jan 12 15:34:51 <sixwheeledbeast> mmm... I will. I just don't understand how only I have the issue
Jan 12 15:35:53 <_ade_> yeah, and you experience it not just with the ubuntu font.
Jan 12 15:36:21 <_ade_> you have seen no error messages, right?
Jan 12 15:37:44 <sixwheeledbeast> not tested for error messages yet. installing thumb one on thumb device now. I have tested on device with standard fonts and it's the same yes.
Jan 12 15:38:53 <_ade_> really curious how that works out
Jan 12 15:39:20 <sixwheeledbeast> thumb is the same with the strike-through
Jan 12 15:39:55 <sixwheeledbeast> so this is reproduced on three different devices now
Jan 12 15:40:13 <_ade_> O~o
Jan 12 15:40:53 <sixwheeledbeast> mmm, indeed
Jan 12 15:41:24 <_ade_> okay, I will like at the code and see if I can find something strange
Jan 12 15:41:43 <_ade_> s/like/look
Jan 12 15:44:10 <sixwheeledbeast> FWIW the ghost strike-through disappears if you edit the list again.
Jan 12 15:44:28 <sixwheeledbeast> no obvious errors in terminal either
Jan 12 15:45:57 <_ade_> you could try and see what the extras-devel version does
Jan 12 15:46:08 <sixwheeledbeast> k
Jan 12 15:49:55 <_ade_> wait a minute, I can reproduce it! Looks like it is related to some config settings
Jan 12 15:50:37 <_ade_> Can you activate sort A-Z?
Jan 12 15:51:26 <_ade_> Then it should not happen
Jan 12 16:05:38 <_ade_> sixwheeledbeast: I updated the TMO post and will try to fix it. Thanks for testing ^^^
Jan 12 16:06:55 <sixwheeledbeast> _ade_: sorry I was busy, do you need me to test something? 
Jan 12 16:08:39 <_ade_> activate sort A-Z in the latest version and see if it helps
Jan 12 16:12:15 <sixwheeledbeast> yes, that's it :)
Jan 12 16:12:57 <sixwheeledbeast> _ade_: np, anytime
Jan 12 16:17:25 <sixwheeledbeast> FWIW it's not reproducible in 0.3.31 with A-Z on or off
Jan 12 16:21:35 <_ade_> sixwheeledbeast: okay, then I must have introduced it. I always work with sort A-Z and checked to bottom, so I can always miss such things.
Jan 12 16:22:33 <sixwheeledbeast> yes, well that's what testing is for, everyone likes things set differently 
Jan 12 16:24:03 <sixwheeledbeast> BTW I never used willem's version, I think you have made everything a lot tidier. The checkboxes don't look great.
Jan 12 16:24:55 <sixwheeledbeast> I guess the idea behind the icons is to avoid the need for translations
Jan 12 16:28:00 <_ade_> The checkboxes eat a bit to much space. Once the line is too long, the list starts "floating" horizontally.
Jan 12 16:29:48 <_ade_> And I liked the icons. They use a bit less space than the text (I added the pick list as extra) and saves possible translation indeed.
Jan 12 16:31:32 <sixwheeledbeast> :nod:
Jan 12 16:35:57 <_ade_> sixwheeledbeast: going to fire up cooktimer to prepare some food :-), bye
Jan 12 16:36:24 <sixwheeledbeast> _ade_: bye, enjoy :)
Jan 12 17:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> what we learned (today??): testing an app doesn't mean "make sure it works for me with my particular set of options/parameters", a developer shall test *all* options and parameters before shipping their product
Jan 12 17:36:04 <DocScrutinizer05> of course including all error handling
Jan 12 17:37:29 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a reason for the widely accepted calculation that assigns >50% of the development effort to testing
Jan 12 17:39:18 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo QA in extras-testing is NOT about those tests, it just is supposed to check that this testing actually been done
Jan 12 17:39:46 <DocScrutinizer05> done by developer
Jan 12 18:48:22 <sixwheeledbeast> I think that's a bit unfair. Things can get over looked accidentally, the issue was relative minor and unnoticed by everyone but myself. The package was inherited, plus it's not even in -devel yet, it's still a .deb beta in a post. We are not talking about a development team here, just one person wishing to contribute something useful.
Jan 12 18:52:47 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: it wasn't meant as bashing, just a general remark that felt loosely related. I've seen this negligence in testing in ~90% of all packages getting published, not only in maemo even.
Jan 12 18:53:09 <sixwheeledbeast> :nod: 
Jan 12 18:54:16 <DocScrutinizer05> it's rather a pretty commonly found difference between commercial products and FOSS, with the latter generally performing pretty poor on the much-hated testing duties
Jan 12 18:55:06 <sixwheeledbeast> it seems with a lot of things there are so many options, the world is a beta tester.
Jan 12 18:55:18 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't work
Jan 12 18:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> this is not about beta-testing
Jan 12 18:56:05 <DocScrutinizer05> this is about testframes
Jan 12 18:56:17 <Humpelstilzchen> Funny, there is enough commercial Software out there which looks pretty untested for me
Jan 12 18:56:26 <DocScrutinizer05> about systematically checking each segment of your code
Jan 12 18:56:56 <sixwheeledbeast> Commerical products should have more funds to sink into testing
Jan 12 18:57:05 <Humpelstilzchen> not really
Jan 12 18:57:24 <Humpelstilzchen> time to market etc
Jan 12 18:57:26 <DocScrutinizer05> Humpelstilzchen: yes, a lot of commercial software falls short on testing as well, but only if the company is pretty clueless about QA and doesn't care about own reputation
Jan 12 18:58:45 <DocScrutinizer05> in *professional* sw-development there are standard procedures like code-coverage-check etc
Jan 12 18:59:25 <DocScrutinizer05> module tests
Jan 12 19:00:33 <DocScrutinizer05> defining test scenario and the needed tools are part of the architectural design of each piece of software
Jan 12 19:01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> often the testframe is larger than the "payload" code you develop
Jan 12 19:05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW the developer not only writes a lib or function, but also a comprehensive set of testing framework that checks/tests the correct behavior of that lib/function particularly (but not only) in extreme sitautions like paramaters out of bound, low memory etc pp
Jan 12 19:08:52 <DocScrutinizer05> then using this testframe you run tests against your lib/function while you check it for memleaks, for code-coverage (make sure each single line of code got "covered" i.e. executed and thus tested for correct operation), and whatnot else
Jan 12 19:09:59 <DocScrutinizer05> thus in the end often development of the payload code (the lib/function itself) is only 25% of the work the developer has to do
Jan 12 19:10:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ret is testing and *documentation*
Jan 12 19:10:25 <DocScrutinizer05> rest*
Jan 12 19:11:09 <DocScrutinizer05> peer review is another mandatory part of developing professional software
Jan 12 19:11:50 <DocScrutinizer05> only *after* all that been accomplished, you start beta-testing
Jan 12 19:13:17 * DocScrutinizer05 waiting for the 100% warranted reply by random FOSS hacker: "but then we wouldn't publish *any* software ever! we can't do that, too much work"
Jan 12 19:14:32 <DocScrutinizer05> (ambiguity of "warranted" on purpose)
Jan 12 19:21:48 <sixwheeledbeast> That was the point I was making before, I agree with the above.
Jan 12 20:32:07 <Ashley`> Is somewhere VirtualBox image with Debian or Ubuntu and Maemo SDK installed available for download?
Jan 12 20:43:10 <sixwheeledbeast> Ashley`: I installed them separately. I used Debian Squeeze
Jan 12 20:48:46 <sixwheeledbeast> FIQ: seems there are more reports of odd battery applet behaviour. I still think it's a placebo and it's the usual BME throwing a fit.
Jan 12 20:49:06 <sixwheeledbeast> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80525&page=41
Jan 12 21:09:27 <Satorin> My battery never charges over 90%, and sometimes the percentage randomly increases during use...
Jan 12 21:09:32 <Satorin> What a mysterious thing it is.
Jan 12 21:10:55 <ShadowJK> The default battery meter is confused
Jan 12 21:11:10 <ShadowJK> and it gets worse with older batteries
Jan 12 21:24:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Ashley`: there's a VM available
Jan 12 21:25:01 <Ashley`> where?
Jan 12 21:26:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ~skeiron
Jan 12 21:26:13 <infobot> hmm... skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143, or see: ~tabletsdev
Jan 12 21:30:27 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_non-Linux_operating_systems
Jan 12 21:30:44 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK_Virtual_Images
Jan 12 21:32:11 <DocScrutinizer05> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php  replacing nokia by skeiron
Jan 12 21:35:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/
Jan 12 21:35:56 <DocScrutinizer05> pretty hard to find
Jan 12 21:43:58 <Ashley`> thanks C:
Jan 12 21:51:10 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL @ http://privatepaste.com/2c71f04d93 in http://developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html "SDK installer ()"
Jan 12 21:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/  seems thoroughly outdated / obsolete too
Jan 12 21:55:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I admit it feels lile maemo/nokia does all to alien newcomers 
Jan 12 21:55:40 <DocScrutinizer05> like
Jan 12 22:34:53 <b1101> does fmms work well ?
Jan 12 22:35:59 <mad_dev> What are the minimal xorg packages other than core common video driver mouse keyboard that are actually required for usage?
Jan 12 23:18:02 <DocScrutinizer05> b1101: it at least is supposed to work, yes
Jan 12 23:18:39 <int_ua> is there only one defaults.list on maemo?
Jan 12 23:19:09 <int_ua> I'm having this problem: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1334985
Jan 12 23:19:32 <int_ua> but only on one N900
Jan 12 23:21:08 <int_ua> ok, looks like it was URL-escaped on the problematic one
Jan 12 23:31:36 <int_ua> but copying file from the working one didn't fix the problem
Jan 13 00:53:43 <b1101> still worth it buying an n900 ?
Jan 13 00:58:01 <Ashley`> b1101 i bought mine in december 2013
Jan 13 00:58:07 <Ashley`> and im happy with it xD
Jan 13 01:09:11 <b1101> after using a GSII, I don't know if I'll be happy with the speed
Jan 13 01:33:41 <b1101> .....and now I own one. I couldn't resist
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 13 02:59:59 2014