**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 15 02:59:59 2014
Jan 15 09:05:27 <zGrr> moin :)
Jan 15 13:44:39 <Apic> A splendid wonderful good Setting Orange Morning (UGT).
Jan 15 16:24:12 * freemangordon finally migrated his desktop to linux
Jan 15 16:24:35 <Ashley`> yay
Jan 15 16:24:43 <Ashley`> C:
Jan 15 16:33:54 <sixwheeledbeast> well no looking back now.
Jan 15 16:34:15 * sixwheeledbeast hears smoke alarm and goes to investigate....
Jan 15 16:39:52 <sixwheeledbeast> stupid thing.
Jan 15 16:42:05 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: I was postponing that for much too long
Jan 15 16:42:26 <freemangordon> but when I got 3 reboots per hour OOB...
Jan 15 16:43:05 <sixwheeledbeast> Have you used any new HW apart from the PSU?
Jan 15 16:43:17 <freemangordon> yep
Jan 15 16:43:35 <freemangordon> everything is new but the case and (most of) the disks
Jan 15 16:43:40 <sixwheeledbeast> anything interesting?
Jan 15 16:44:05 <freemangordon> it took me a while to setup nvidia binary driver to start 2 screens :D
Jan 15 16:44:46 <freemangordon> otherwise pretty good setup IMO -4 i5 cores, 16G RAM, ~3.5 TB disk space
Jan 15 16:46:08 <sixwheeledbeast> well that should do for a while.
Jan 15 16:47:05 <freemangordon> oh, a really strange thing - 
Jan 15 16:48:10 <freemangordon> I setup VM to use my old XP installation as a phisical disk, (to ease my migration). What makes me nuts is mozilla and thundrbird - both hag in some 10-20 seconds
Jan 15 16:48:18 <freemangordon> *physical
Jan 15 16:48:54 <freemangordon> or rather - does not repaint the contents, I need to switch the focus to have the page rendered
Jan 15 16:49:10 <freemangordon> this is really weird
Jan 15 16:53:38 <sixwheeledbeast> can't say I have come across that. I use a VM on Ubuntu for my Maemo SDK. I you talking about firefox/tbird in the VM?
Jan 15 16:54:00 <sixwheeledbeast> s/I you/Are you/
Jan 15 16:54:00 <freemangordon> yes
Jan 15 16:54:00 <infobot> sixwheeledbeast meant: can't say I have come across that. I use a VM on Ubuntu for my Maemo SDK. Are you talking about firefox/tbird in the VM?
Jan 15 16:54:42 <freemangordon> but it is something broken in my old XP installation, as I did a clean XP install on another partition and FF doesn't have that problem there
Jan 15 16:54:53 <freemangordon> but anyway I CBA to fix that
Jan 15 16:55:40 <freemangordon> though everything else works, so it is deffinitely a bug in gecko
Jan 15 16:56:36 <sixwheeledbeast> Well not worth spending effort to fix, if you migrate everything.
Jan 15 16:58:36 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jan 15 16:59:44 <sixwheeledbeast> I use Iceweasel in the VM to lighten the load, do most of my browsing in Ubuntu with FF.
Jan 15 17:01:37 <DocScrutinizer05> DNS not reachable, or a 404 on some hidden "service" often can cause such annoying stalls in browsers
Jan 15 17:02:21 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g when you primary DNS server IP doesn't respond and eventually resolver/whatever has to fall back to 2nd/3rd DNS IP
Jan 15 17:04:48 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: wireshark told me there is no activity
Jan 15 17:05:05 <freemangordon> and once stalled only restart fixes it
Jan 15 17:52:11 <amospalla> I managed to install cssu9 over cssu-thumb8
Jan 15 17:53:08 <sixwheeledbeast> eh? T9.1+thumb0 is available now AFAIK.
Jan 15 17:53:41 <amospalla> right, and I saw it as upgrade, and I thought I was updating to thumb, but dunno how I got non-thumb installed.
Jan 15 17:54:25 <amospalla> applications manager does not recognize thumb as an update, is it safe to manually installing it with apt-get?
Jan 15 17:54:45 <amospalla> I've always read, important updates should always be done through applications manger.
Jan 15 18:02:03 <sixwheeledbeast> ALL package management should be done through HAM
Jan 15 18:02:25 <sixwheeledbeast> check catalogues to make sure thumb is there
Jan 15 18:12:59 <amospalla> these are set
Jan 15 18:13:35 <amospalla> maybe on next thumb version, I can go back to it :/
Jan 15 18:19:37 <amospalla> it appeared now :)
Jan 15 18:25:13 <DocScrutinizer05> basically CSSU-T and CSSU-thumb are cross-compatible, as long as you got the thumbified kernel
Jan 15 18:26:04 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing wrong in installing a non-thumb package version over an older thumbified version of same package. It's a simple normal update
Jan 15 18:26:38 <amospalla> DocScrutinizer05: thank you for that info, is good to know.
Jan 15 18:27:04 <DocScrutinizer05> just your newer version, when not thumbified will be a tad larger and possibly slower, but then it's also newer and possibly some bugs fixed
Jan 15 18:28:02 <DocScrutinizer05> when same version rolls out of cssu-thumb hangar's door, you will easily update to thumb version again
Jan 15 18:29:03 <DocScrutinizer05> per definition equivalent versions between cssu-thumb and cssu-testing are supposed to be 100% compatible
Jan 15 18:29:18 <DocScrutinizer05> except for disk space needed for installation
Jan 15 18:29:49 <amospalla> nice, so I don't need to wait to thumb version of a package, if there is an update, and I would like to test it.
Jan 15 18:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, not really
Jan 15 18:30:08 <amospalla> :)
Jan 15 18:30:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I actually suggest you better install any cssu-test update particularly when it's a critical or security related update
Jan 15 18:31:55 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not like cssu-T update should or would roll back *all* of your cssu-thumb binaries to a non-thumb version. It's usually only 1 or maybe a very low 1digit number of packages that got upgraded in a new CSSU-T release
Jan 15 18:32:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and aiui only those will override any CSSU-Thumb packages of same name on your system - if any such packages actually exist
Jan 15 18:33:19 <DocScrutinizer05> in short, CSSU-T and CSSU-Thumb are not mutually exclusive but rather complementary
Jan 15 18:35:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ideally cssu-thumb repo has a slightly higher priority than cssu-t repo, so packages with identical version-number should update from thumb
Jan 15 18:36:41 <DocScrutinizer05> depending on behaviour of apt and HAM I guess automatic update from cssu-t to *-thumb might fail when version-number in cssu-thumb isn't higher than the identical version in *-t
Jan 15 18:37:22 <DocScrutinizer05> in that case I guess reverting to apt-get and force-installing/reinstalling the metapackage from cssu-thumb will do
Jan 15 18:37:52 <amospalla> mhh.. it seems to have installed correctly
Jan 15 18:38:21 <amospalla> well, n900 rebooted, and told me it had upgrade the system, nothing related to errors.
Jan 15 18:38:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly hope freemangordon is tagging all thumb binaries in a unique way
Jan 15 18:38:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so users have a way to tell them apart from their non-thumbified twins
Jan 15 18:40:06 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: you do?
Jan 15 18:40:23 <SAiF> I dont even look what gets installed. what evere comes up as an update, I just give it a go.. 
Jan 15 18:41:19 * DocScrutinizer05 thinks of a small string addition to --help or --version output, or for binaries that don't have this, just include a ascii string const that doesn't get optimized out by compiler/linker
Jan 15 18:43:32 <SAiF> and hope it wont cause any harm.
Jan 15 18:43:52 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if just *maybe* every thumb binary could link against a lib that checks for presence of a unique property of /sys or /proc or whatever that signals that kernel is supporting thumb, and simply quits with throwing error when not
Jan 15 18:44:55 <DocScrutinizer05> this way you could make sure any problems from tumb running on a non-thumb system can get caught in very early stage, not at random occasion much later via segfault
Jan 15 18:45:15 <DocScrutinizer05> and you could easily tell apart thumb binaries from armel binaries
Jan 15 18:45:34 <sixwheeledbeast> thumb versions have there own +thumbX package name
Jan 15 18:46:02 <DocScrutinizer05> does the binary know about own package name?
Jan 15 18:46:58 <sixwheeledbeast> Not sure fmg will know.
Jan 15 18:47:27 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm? fmg doesn't know abiut own package name? ;-)
Jan 15 18:48:52 <sixwheeledbeast> he's obviously busy tweaking his new buntu machine 
Jan 15 19:35:45 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no, thumb binaries don't know they are thumb
Jan 15 19:38:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ++ #include fmglib
Jan 15 19:38:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ++ assert(fmgSysIsThumb; "Sorry, your system doesn't support thumb binaries")
Jan 15 19:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> #endif
Jan 15 19:41:30 <freemangordon> well, IMO LD_PRELOAD is a better way
Jan 15 19:41:40 <DocScrutinizer05> errwut?
Jan 15 19:41:50 <freemangordon> hooking to malloc() for example
Jan 15 19:41:56 <DocScrutinizer05> uhuh
Jan 15 19:42:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and how do you ldpreload for every damn thumb binary on your system?
Jan 15 19:42:25 <freemangordon> SIGILL could happen before that assert() is called
Jan 15 19:42:35 <DocScrutinizer05> and NOT for the non-thumb binaries?
Jan 15 19:42:35 <freemangordon> in /etc/profile
Jan 15 19:45:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm absolutely fine with SIGILL happening before assert reached. I'm not fine with it happening any random time later on
Jan 15 19:46:32 <DocScrutinizer05> the whole purpose of this assert is to make sure the binary dies whatever cruel death the very second it got started
Jan 15 22:04:01 <peetah> Does KP52 enable /dev/snd/seq ? it does'nt seem so, or at least I failed to found a sequencer device in my /dev tree
Jan 15 22:04:25 <peetah> s/found/find
Jan 15 22:59:47 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52750
Jan 15 22:59:51 <DocScrutinizer05> peetah: ^^^
Jan 15 23:00:37 <peetah> DocScrutinizer05: thanks
Jan 15 23:01:35 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=265996#post265996
Jan 15 23:02:57 <DocScrutinizer05> peetah: ^^^
Jan 15 23:02:59 <peetah> DocScrutinizer05: I already went through this, but it didnot change a thing... well I may be to tired for this tonight, I'll try tomorow again. thanks anyway
Jan 15 23:03:47 <DocScrutinizer05> you need to reboot after installing that .asoundrc seq.hw{} plugin definition, I guess
Jan 15 23:05:23 <DocScrutinizer05> you also might want to move that to /etc/asound.conf as sound is not only used by usser ~user/
Jan 15 23:06:15 <DocScrutinizer05> file syntax of ~user/.asoundrc and /etc/asound.conf is identical
Jan 15 23:06:56 <DocScrutinizer05> just ~user/.asoundrc obviously only applies for processes run as "user"
Jan 15 23:09:03 <DocScrutinizer05> however I wonder what's that sequencer thing and why anybody would really want to use it
Jan 15 23:09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> feels like legacy from soundblaste SB16 times
Jan 15 23:09:39 <DocScrutinizer05> late 90s
Jan 15 23:09:59 <peetah> DocScrutinizer05: after rebooting, no change with ~user/.asoundrc
Jan 15 23:10:24 <peetah> DocScrutinizer05: just compliled mame and it requires /dev/snd/seq
Jan 15 23:10:32 <peetah> *compiled
Jan 15 23:11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php?search=sequencer&go=Go&title=Special%3ASearch
Jan 15 23:11:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy
Jan 15 23:12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, not suggesting we actually got SALSA, but anyway http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/SALSA-Library
Jan 15 23:14:00 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/DevEmbedded
Jan 15 23:15:37 <DocScrutinizer05> also interesting: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Soundcard#Setting_up_modprobe_and_kmod_support
Jan 15 23:20:48 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, first and foremost sequencer is for midi AFAIK
Jan 15 23:21:43 <DocScrutinizer05> then it allows for some soundcards to playback stored aufiosamples when triggered like an external midi sequencer
Jan 15 23:22:10 <DocScrutinizer05> neither of which is available on any contemporary sound"card" anymore
Jan 15 23:22:23 <DocScrutinizer05> all disclaimer: AFAIK
Jan 15 23:23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess you better find a way to build mame without sequencer support
Jan 15 23:23:47 <nox-> alsa seq?  you can use say timidity++ for midi playback too
Jan 15 23:24:15 <nox-> i mean have it pick up seq input and play it via software from "soundfonts"
Jan 15 23:24:54 <nox-> (tho i dunno if the n900 would be fast enough :)
Jan 15 23:25:38 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, soundfonts been the fantastic word for that
Jan 15 23:25:50 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jan 15 23:28:46 <DocScrutinizer05> 'even' N900 should be fast enough for that
Jan 15 23:30:10 <nox-> well when /dev/snd/seq wouldnt be useless :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 16 02:59:59 2014