**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 20 02:59:58 2014 Apr 20 06:57:18 DocScrutinizer05: libisi supported multiple active contexts (given that the operator supported it) Apr 20 08:50:25 DocScrutinizer05: I have mostly switched from Maemo 5 on (the) ARM on my Nokia N900 to the Android OS 4.2.x on x86 on my new Geeksphone Revolution. Apr 20 08:53:10 DocScrutinizer05: I say mostly because I am still using Fuelpad on Maemo 5 until I have a replacement or equivalent to use on my Revolution. Apr 20 08:56:40 I kind of wish I had switched from a paper log book to a spreadsheet on my handheld computer instead of switching from paper to Fuelpad because a spreadsheet is useful on any platform as long as I have a suitable spreadsheet application. Apr 20 10:13:54 WTF?! http://privatepaste.com/e59d6de3de Apr 20 10:23:24 even more WTF: http://privatepaste.com/76cdaa2146 Apr 20 10:26:01 corrupted fs? Apr 20 10:27:57 Mm.. maybe look in lost+found if using ext Apr 20 10:28:18 I think it puts files in uncertain states there. Apr 20 10:28:20 dunno Apr 20 10:28:50 * Maxdamantus has never used it. Apr 20 10:56:30 freemangordon: Maxdamantus: I rather thing I got a binary that's non-stock and somehow vanished, while leaving the init.d script as zombie Apr 20 10:56:51 err events.d Apr 20 10:57:30 could be, if you uninstalled something Apr 20 10:57:39 I just wonder what ussdd might be, besides the obvious name relation to ussd Apr 20 10:57:42 though I doubt dpkg will leave files Apr 20 10:58:36 could you check if you got any (or even all) of those files on your system? Apr 20 10:58:40 I don't have such file here Apr 20 10:58:44 :-) Apr 20 10:58:47 that been fast Apr 20 10:59:54 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/u/ussd-common/ ? Apr 20 10:59:58 before starhash, there been some USSD tools/apps around Apr 20 11:01:08 freemangordon: alas nope, has only /usr/bin/ussdquery.py Apr 20 11:02:33 DocScrutinizer05: I bet on that http://maemo.org/packages/view/ussd4all/ one Apr 20 11:03:24 yep, that's it Apr 20 11:03:56 and I wouldn't be too surprised if it had a broken p*rm script Apr 20 11:04:05 DocScrutinizer05: do you remember how to test ppoll/pselect? Apr 20 11:04:13 hardly Apr 20 11:04:18 childspin? Apr 20 11:04:19 I mean - you wrote some script Apr 20 11:04:44 oh, wait, it wanted renice Apr 20 11:04:50 yep Apr 20 11:04:56 which is borked in messybox Apr 20 11:05:05 renice childspin and then make the desktop rotate Apr 20 11:05:16 --> quite fast lockup on non fixed device Apr 20 11:05:18 merlin1991: thanks Apr 20 11:05:29 merlin1991: only one childspin process? Apr 20 11:05:32 nah, I created another really cpu hogging task in a 2nd shell Apr 20 11:05:40 yeah Apr 20 11:05:52 and for that yoi need nice -10 Apr 20 11:06:07 iirc Apr 20 11:06:26 whic, also iirc, doesn't work in messybox, thanks to... messybox Apr 20 11:07:14 lemme see what I got in my */bin/ dirs Apr 20 11:08:04 only -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 6826 2012-08-04 19:45 childspin Apr 20 11:08:13 the rest been manually done Apr 20 11:08:31 essential: use bash Apr 20 11:08:55 plus proper tools, for e.g. working nice Apr 20 11:09:13 IroN900:~# which nice Apr 20 11:09:14 /usr/bin/gnu/nice Apr 20 11:10:01 dammit, it hangs :( Apr 20 11:10:32 ~ # which nice Apr 20 11:10:34 /usr/bin/nice Apr 20 11:10:41 ^^^ messybox Apr 20 11:11:46 merlin1991: ok, seems I didn't build it properly :( Apr 20 11:12:38 merlin1991: I guess I forgot to export kernel headers dir Apr 20 11:12:42 or something Apr 20 11:12:51 check the readme scratchbox Apr 20 11:13:09 is this really needed for gcc4.7.2? Apr 20 11:13:27 you built it no idea what paths and default internal spec files your toolchain uses Apr 20 11:13:56 but essentially check the include path gcc / g++ uses Apr 20 11:15:06 -> #maemo-ssu Apr 20 11:18:17 I dafaq am not able to lower niceness of my other shell Apr 20 11:19:10 no dice with /usr/bin/gnu/nice --10 bash Apr 20 11:25:13 Why bother with cross-compilation when you can simply use an x86 SoC instead of a SoC using the ARM or some other non-x86 ISA? Apr 20 11:35:53 a new modRana is out: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1422034&postcount=1575 Apr 20 11:35:56 enjoy! :) Apr 20 15:24:53 hmm, update for mc (midnight commander) to 1.4.8?? not possible. Problem: libslang-dunnowhat missing Apr 20 15:27:16 D'ouh Apr 20 15:27:58 damn! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/libslang2/2.0.6-4osso1+r1/ is in testing only! Apr 20 15:31:24 Graham Inggs should take care to pronote that lib to maemo-extras when mc depends on it Apr 20 16:08:10 DocScrutinizer05: I use a Command Line Interface every day but I rarely use mc because I rarely need mc. Apr 20 16:10:49 Incidentally: Is a succubus in Electrical Engineering literally an open collector? ;-) Apr 20 16:12:27 brolin_empey: ok, you rarely use mc. What is the conclusion I take from that? Apr 20 16:14:09 DocScrutinizer05: I wonder why you want mc because I do not seem to need mc. Apr 20 16:14:26 who says I want mc? Apr 20 16:14:50 I do not _need_ mc either, but like it and use it sometimes nevertheless. Apr 20 16:16:44 (irrelevant, but actually I like mc as well) Apr 20 16:17:32 DocScrutinizer05: I thought you discovered the dependency problem with mc because you wanted to install mc so you could use mc. I guess you were only managing/maintaining the Maemo package repositories? Apr 20 16:17:54 is this relevant? Apr 20 16:19:32 DocScrutinizer05: I was trying to answer your question of “who says I want mc?”. Apr 20 16:20:28 well, this was a rethorical question, which I can answer myself for you: *I* didn't say I want mc. I stated that there's a problem in extras-devel Apr 20 16:21:13 EOD Apr 20 16:21:24 errrmaemo-extras Apr 20 16:22:27 a package thta got promoted to maemo-extras is depending on stuff that's only available in maemo-extras-testing Apr 20 16:22:45 Thanks for pointing out that Repo Apr 20 16:22:49 I'll add it B-) Apr 20 16:22:55 And deploy mc B-) Apr 20 16:22:58 HAM will notice that and show a problem when somebody wants to install or update mc Apr 20 16:23:37 Apic: eh? Apr 20 16:24:15 Uh Apr 20 16:24:29 I'm confused Apr 20 16:24:40 when you want to take maintainership of mc and/or libslang, go ahead use the "request maintainership" button on the respective packages interface pages Apr 20 16:24:40 There's only /extras/ in there, not even /extras-devel/ Apr 20 16:25:03 I think i keep from modifying anything… Apr 20 16:25:07 Never touch a running System %-) Apr 20 16:25:39 better that. Adding extras-devel and then doing an "update all" has potential to nuke your system Apr 20 16:26:03 it's *devel* for a reason Apr 20 16:26:14 oh, speaking of updates Apr 20 16:26:18 I'm not actually able to update cutetube Apr 20 16:26:24 ube-qml that is Apr 20 16:26:42 it's been in my updates list for months, but whenever I update it downloads, tries to install, then says it fails Apr 20 16:26:55 DocScrutinizer05: I do not know about you but, maybe even on a weekly basis if not more frequently, a remark I make that is intended only as a neutral observation is interpreted by someone else as a judgement. Apr 20 16:27:41 Okay Apr 20 16:27:56 yeah, a commonly occuring "problem" Apr 20 16:32:20 Honestly, my user experience with Maemo 5 on my Nokia N900 in Canada is too poor to want to continue using a Nokia N900. To be fair, some of my poor user experience is caused by hardware limitations, not software. Apr 20 16:33:20 brolin_empey: could you elaborate, I am curious Apr 20 16:33:30 what exactly HW is n900 missing Apr 20 16:34:15 freemangordon: he may be on rogers Apr 20 16:34:26 on rogers in canada and at&t in the US(my carries) 3g doesn't work Apr 20 16:34:30 my carrier* Apr 20 16:34:33 aah Apr 20 16:35:05 hardware support for mp4 would be pretty nice too Apr 20 16:35:20 what? Apr 20 16:35:30 mp4 as in? Apr 20 16:35:30 as it stands watching any video made since the n900 was launched absolutely kills the battery Apr 20 16:35:44 Tekk_: what do you use to watch it? Apr 20 16:36:37 mplayer. mediaplayer just plain refuses to use mp4 for me Apr 20 16:36:38 mplayer or media player? Apr 20 16:36:51 well, mplayer does not use DSP Apr 20 16:36:52 mpv > MPlayer Apr 20 16:37:00 Apic: mpv is on the n900 now? :) Apr 20 16:37:07 No Idea ;-) Apr 20 16:37:13 freemangordon: 256 MiB of physical RAM is far too little. Even a 400-MHz Pentium II tower computer I prepared for my employer has 512 MiB of physical RAM. Apr 20 16:37:14 Should be in the ARM Debian Repo Apr 20 16:37:19 Though probably not optimized Apr 20 16:37:28 brolin_empey: do you even get 256 of physical? Apr 20 16:37:45 oh right Apr 20 16:37:49 there we go again.. someone installing debian stuff on mameo :p Apr 20 16:37:49 that was my last phone that had 128 Apr 20 16:37:58 wait, wait, most mp4/mpv videos I throw on my device are perfectly playable via media player Apr 20 16:38:10 freemangordon: weird Apr 20 16:38:18 Tekk_: did you install harmattan codecs? Apr 20 16:38:28 DSP codecs that is Apr 20 16:38:38 I installed every gstreamer-dsp if that's what you mean Apr 20 16:38:53 * Tekk_ double checks Apr 20 16:38:53 I mean http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=77695 Apr 20 16:39:21 Tekk_: ^^^ Apr 20 16:39:33 isn't mp4 actualyl a container ? Apr 20 16:39:37 yep ;) Apr 20 16:39:39 *actually Apr 20 16:39:55 thare might be a lot of different stuff in it Apr 20 16:39:56 M4rtinK: yes, but pretty much all of the time when you say mp4 you can be sure of an h264/mp3 setup Apr 20 16:40:07 or h264/aac Apr 20 16:40:07 even just counting the MPEG profiles Apr 20 16:40:17 well, mostly yes Apr 20 16:40:27 mostly? Apr 20 16:40:31 for movies, etc. Apr 20 16:40:33 yep, vc1 Apr 20 16:40:37 I can't think of anyone who does differently except for MAYBE ms Apr 20 16:40:50 but "mp4" you get from cameras for example Apr 20 16:40:51 freemangordon: thanks for the link btw, I'll try that Apr 20 16:40:58 can be quite weird from my experience Apr 20 16:41:51 brolin_empey: sure, 256 is far too little, but if you don't run openoffice and gimp simultaneously it is pretty much ok Apr 20 16:42:02 assuming you move the swap to uSD Apr 20 16:42:12 and tweaked swappiuness/io scheduler Apr 20 16:42:22 swapiness even Apr 20 16:43:30 brolin_empey: keep in mind I am on cssu-thumb, so your experience might be a bit different if you are on stock Apr 20 16:44:03 Tekk_: could you paste a link to one of those non-working videos so I can try it Apr 20 16:44:03 I like how Maemo 5 can use tracker/module files in the same way as stream formats. However, that ability has become irrelevant since I switched to always using a silent profile because I do not want to be a cell out. Yes, I mean cell, not sell. Apr 20 16:44:27 brolin_empey: the n900 is almost powerful enough to use as an everyday computer assuming you have kernel power + overclocking Apr 20 16:44:33 and a bluetooth keyboard/mouse Apr 20 16:44:49 :nod: Apr 20 16:44:51 freemangordon: it's primarily just stuff downloaded with cutetube using mp4 Apr 20 16:45:37 Tekk_: afaik those are hight profile, stock codecs does not support it Apr 20 16:49:27 freemangordon: I am using the CSSU (stable, IIRC) but I do not know if it is using Thumb. In any case, though, I want x86, not the ARM, which is a large part of my reason for switching from my Nokia N900 to a Geeksphone Revolution. Apr 20 16:50:37 brolin_empey: you're not (using thumb) Apr 20 16:54:12 Tekk_: I use Fido Mobile, which means I am in the same situation as if I used Rogers Wireless in terms of inability to use “3G” (HSPA). Apr 20 16:59:59 Tekk_: The Nokia N900 cannot be used with the cellular networks of both Telus Mobility, Bell Mobility, and all of their MVNOs because the Nokia N900 does not support the UMTS bands used by both Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility, two of the largest mobile telcos in Canada. Apr 20 17:04:27 Tekk_: Rogers owns the only GSM network in Canada. Both Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility have skipped GSM by moving from CDMA-2000 to UMTS. Apr 20 17:13:22 ((almost powerful enough to use as an everyday computer...)) no OC needed for that. OC makes little real difference in UX, except for time critical applications that either work or break, depending on performance >x or like e.g. audio/video playback Apr 20 17:14:22 for 720p I heard you mandatory need OC, or it will not keep up with the standard framerate Apr 20 17:15:17 but then, who needs 720p on a device with a 800*480 display and a PAL/NTSC composite video output? Apr 20 17:15:57 DocScrutinizer05: I find that it's very useful when you're doing heavy multitasking Apr 20 17:16:04 tweaking swappiness helps a lot there too Apr 20 17:16:35 I don't feel like starting my usual rant about OC now. Sorry for those who already fetched their popcorn Apr 20 17:17:28 anyway improving IO and swap parameters does magintudes more for percieved performance of N900 than a 20% or somesuch of CPU OC Apr 20 17:17:50 even 50% are hardlly noticeable Apr 20 17:18:44 it's not a life changing improvement, but every bit helps Apr 20 17:19:22 increasing CPU clock by 100% doesn't mean your system will be 100% faster, thanks to performance being a mix of IO, CPU, RAM, DSP, other stuff, the total boost is maybe only 30% for a CPU OC of 100% Apr 20 17:20:19 then otoh OC by 50% will reduce lifespan of your CPU til complete irrecoverable failure by a factor 10 or more Apr 20 17:20:59 e.g from 100k h to <<10k h Apr 20 17:21:20 ~omap-oc Apr 20 17:21:22 from memory, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 Apr 20 17:23:26 DocScrutinizeryour 10% per week is definitely problematic, but 100k to 10k could be about right Apr 20 17:24:09 * Tekk_ is only at ~4 kh Apr 20 17:27:04 Tekk_: and that's only for times when CPU running at OC clock *really*, noot for the idle periods when clock got stopped Apr 20 17:27:13 s/noot/not/ Apr 20 17:27:13 DocScrutinizer05 meant: Tekk_: and that's only for times when CPU running at OC clock *really*, not for the idle periods when clock got stopped Apr 20 17:29:07 anyway, TI says "OMAP lives 100k hours on up to 500MHz clock, and 15k h when operating at 600MHz" - up to you to guess how long it might work while clocked at 900MHz Apr 20 17:30:47 when it's "linear", the for every 100MHz plus, the lifespan will be 1/8 or sth like that. Odds are it's exponential Apr 20 17:31:36 i.e: for 700MHz Apr 20 17:31:46 ~15000/8 Apr 20 17:31:47 1875 Apr 20 17:31:56 for 800MHz: Apr 20 17:32:04 ~1875/8 Apr 20 17:32:05 234.375 Apr 20 17:32:16 for 900MHz: Apr 20 17:32:23 ~235/8 Apr 20 17:32:23 29.375 Apr 20 17:32:29 *cough* Apr 20 17:33:20 and odds are at 1000MHz the SoC burns out after 3..4h of heavy number crunching Apr 20 17:34:18 no matter if done in one session of 4h, or in chunks of 16 * 15minutes Apr 20 17:37:55 actually TI predicts that a 5% of devices are dead after that timespan of torture Apr 20 17:38:28 and it's been 23k h, not 15k h Apr 20 17:38:59 so, assuming this isn't 1/8 bit only 1/4, the formula goes like this Apr 20 17:39:33 ~23000/4/4/4/4 Apr 20 17:39:33 89.84375 Apr 20 17:39:40 for 1000MHz Apr 20 17:40:44 >>100K total PowerOnHours when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 (overdrive = 600MHz) to less than 23K POH. --- for commercial grade device (up to 95°C)<< Apr 20 17:41:34 >>50K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 to less than 10K POH. Total FaultsInThousand(?) Rate increases from design goal of 50FIT to 70FIT under these accelerated conditions. (for MIL(?) 105°C max devices)<< Apr 20 17:48:05 I guess we don't have the hotplug governor in current maemo kernel ? Apr 20 17:48:30 hotplug governor? Apr 20 17:50:07 nevermind, android stuff that has never been ported back Apr 20 17:50:12 (to mainline) Apr 20 17:50:14 > The key difference in the “hotplug” governor is that it will disable auxillary CPUs when the system is very idle, and enable them again once the system becomes busy. This is achieved by averaging load over multiple sampling periods; if CPUs were online or offlined based on a single sampling period then thrashing will occur. Apr 20 17:50:36 N900 has only one CPU Apr 20 17:50:51 I would be useless even being ported Apr 20 17:51:09 actually I was more interested in the down_threshold thing Apr 20 17:51:25 (which ondemand doesn't have) Apr 20 19:35:26 merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1422103#post1422103 Apr 20 19:36:40 freemangordon: still getting media format not supported on yt vids :/ Apr 20 19:37:41 oh, hold on Apr 20 19:37:48 apparently I never confirmed the removal of openmax Apr 20 19:40:20 yep, that was the problem Apr 20 19:42:16 what you saying to Ara model? Apr 20 19:42:34 just listening google http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6BHJspyh6s Apr 20 19:42:46 presentation, it could be used to complete "neo900" Apr 20 20:55:15 is that constantly running browserd really needed? Apr 20 20:55:24 also, what is tracker? Apr 20 20:55:29 *trackerd Apr 20 20:55:33 also, hi :P Apr 20 20:56:26 i dont even use microb. Apr 20 21:04:12 tracerk is for indexing your (media) files Apr 20 21:09:39 -k Apr 20 22:00:55 Ashley`: iirc the normal browser doesn't work without browserd Apr 20 22:00:59 it's a way to save on memory Apr 20 22:01:13 instead of running a bunch of browser processes, you run one browser process and a bunch of frontends to it Apr 20 22:01:23 but i dont use normal browser :P Apr 20 23:04:19 freemangordon: video has gone from an hour if I'm charging to barely any battery cost at all :) Apr 20 23:57:46 Tekk_: toldya :) Apr 20 23:59:51 Ashley`: yes, you do, conversations app is a frontend to browserd as well Apr 20 23:59:59 for example **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 21 02:59:58 2014