**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 24 02:59:58 2014
May 24 15:24:44 <Kabouik> Anyone running Bluemaemo here? Using Faster App Manager, I got a "you have broken packages and stuff" error when trying to install Bluiemaemo
May 24 15:24:58 <Kabouik> And when trying that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72602 it fails at first step because libeet1 is not found
May 24 15:25:09 <Kabouik> I have extras and extras-devel
May 24 15:43:08 <Kabouik> Oh, just found that someone has uploaded all .deb packages in the thread!
May 24 15:56:05 <Kabouik> So Bluemaemo is installed now, and I can connect to my PC (W7), but it will disconnect a few seconds after I try the keypard or mouse modes (without working the first few seconds)
May 24 16:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> Kabouik: !!!
May 24 16:12:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ~fapman
May 24 16:12:54 <infobot> hmm... fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. in short, it's deprecated
May 24 16:14:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal fapman
May 24 16:14:55 <infobot> "fapman" is "Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. in short, it's deprecated"
May 24 16:15:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo fapman
May 24 16:15:04 <infobot> fapman -- created by RiD <~GhostRide@2.83.43.131> at Thu Jul  5 20:14:21 2012 (687 days); last modified at Mon Oct 28 08:37:34 2013 by DocScrutinizer05!~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 39 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 2m 10s ago.
May 24 16:17:15 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU), or actually for anything since ~speedyHAM. It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. In short, it's been identified as source of system corruption and thus deprecated
May 24 16:17:15 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
May 24 16:17:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo fapman
May 24 16:17:22 <infobot> fapman -- created by RiD <~GhostRide@2.83.43.131> at Thu Jul  5 20:14:21 2012 (687 days); last modified 6s ago  by DocScrutinizer05!~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 39 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 4m 27s ago.
May 24 16:35:07 <DocScrutinizer05> FFS messybox never heard of `trap`
May 24 16:37:55 <DocScrutinizer05> the heck, trap(1P)  == POSIX!
May 24 16:38:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
May 24 16:38:22 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
May 24 16:39:03 <DocScrutinizer05> CBA any longer to keep my tools messybox-safe
May 24 16:47:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sed -i "1 s\@#!/bin/sh@#!/bin/bash@" /usr/local/?bin/*
May 24 16:48:47 <kerio> you might as well just symlink bash to sh
May 24 16:52:15 <DocScrutinizer05> no, since that would break startup scripts, anyway it's not what I wanna do
May 24 16:53:13 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, busybox has no trap cmd, W. T. F.
May 24 16:54:16 <ecc3g> trap as in signal handler?
May 24 16:54:21 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
May 24 16:54:42 <ecc3g> it recognizes it for me...? (busybox-n900, busybox-e2500, busybox-gentoo)?
May 24 16:56:01 <DocScrutinizer05> WEIRD, now I see it too in messybox 'help' as builtin
May 24 16:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/5dee86ec32
May 24 16:58:37 * DocScrutinizer05 scratches head
May 24 16:59:03 <ecc3g> hmm... actually trap should be a builtin to the shell (ash) not an application...
May 24 17:00:00 <ecc3g> like you can do for loops in ash but it's not listed... reserved keyword
May 24 17:00:02 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/7bfaa2d6f1
May 24 17:02:33 <DocScrutinizer05> so it boils down to: how's a busybox login shell `help` command different to invokation of busybox from inside bash via `busybox` and then doing `help`
May 24 17:03:27 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, oops, I didn't do `help`
May 24 17:04:59 <DocScrutinizer05> actually busybox refuses to stay around when invoked from bash
May 24 17:05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> it just spits out http://privatepaste.com/5dee86ec32 and exits
May 24 17:05:26 <Snafu777> Here is a thought.
May 24 17:05:33 <Snafu777> Listening to the back and forth...
May 24 17:05:42 <Snafu777> grab the binaries from the busybox deb
May 24 17:05:48 <Snafu777> and dont install it perhaps
May 24 17:05:53 <Snafu777> then u dont have busybox mistakes
May 24 17:05:55 <Snafu777> and u have bash
May 24 17:06:00 <Snafu777> and all is good and well in the maemo world
May 24 17:06:05 <DocScrutinizer05> aha
May 24 17:06:49 <ecc3g> when you run busybox by itself, it doesn't start a shell... at least that's how it behaves on gentoo.  if you want to start a shell, busybox sh (or busybox ash) ?
May 24 17:07:21 <DocScrutinizer05> can you tell me how your suggestion fixes " trap "e=$?; echo ${bn}: aborting with error $e; exit $e" ERR " in a script that's supposed to run on other systems too?
May 24 17:07:50 <Snafu777> well.  Scripts are not universal DocScrutinizer05 
May 24 17:08:01 <Snafu777> Take for instance...  How does the shebang line begin on the script?
May 24 17:08:11 <Snafu777> !/bin/bash or something?
May 24 17:08:17 <DocScrutinizer05> eh?
May 24 17:08:49 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-05-24 Sat 18:39:03] <DocScrutinizer05> CBA any longer to keep my tools messybox-safe
May 24 17:08:51 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-05-24 Sat 18:47:27] <DocScrutinizer05> sed -i "1 s\@#!/bin/sh@#!/bin/bash@" /usr/local/?bin/*
May 24 17:09:16 <Snafu777> Should it not be: #!/usr/bin/env bash
May 24 17:09:19 <Snafu777> or whatever?
May 24 17:09:30 <Snafu777> That's problem 1 for most "universal" scripts
May 24 17:09:57 <ecc3g> you only do that if you trust the location of bash...
May 24 17:10:04 <Snafu777> But hey, I don't know enough about the situation at hand to really help out =)
May 24 17:10:09 <Snafu777> I just like tweaking my maemo
May 24 17:10:41 <Snafu777> and if i find an issue
May 24 17:10:47 <Snafu777> I hack stuff together to make it work
May 24 17:11:02 <ecc3g> hmm... busybox ash trap seems to work, but may not be fully posix.... but it seems to be able to trap sigint
May 24 17:16:01 <Snafu777> But yeah DocScrutinizer05: why not just strip out the useful busybox binaries, without installing busybox?
May 24 17:17:34 <kerio> wait, wait
May 24 17:18:09 <kerio> did i miss another anti-busybox tirade by doc
May 24 17:18:50 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: yeah, get mad!
May 24 17:18:58 <kerio> how dare busybox not ship a shell builtin as a separate binary
May 24 17:19:50 <Snafu777> And DocScrutinizer05 I applaud your work on the NeoN900 =)  Speaking of which, without reading the website and trying to follow along.  How can I best donate some monies towards tho project with the thought that those monies might be a downpayment?
May 24 17:20:32 <kerio> "Donations are temporarily suspended due to reorganisation."
May 24 17:20:42 <Snafu777> I saw that
May 24 17:20:45 <Snafu777> which is why i asked =)
May 24 17:21:24 <kerio> apparently it's something that's going to be resolved in a matter of days
May 24 17:22:02 <kerio> and afaik donations count as rebates for the purchase of a neo900
May 24 17:22:09 <kerio> once it actually ships
May 24 17:22:53 <Snafu777> Yeah, see the way it was all phrased kind of confused me
May 24 17:23:00 <Snafu777> And then with the donations being suspended
May 24 17:23:03 <Snafu777> I was like um......
May 24 17:23:31 <kerio> actually don't quote me on that
May 24 17:24:30 <Snafu777> haha, another reason to ask the man himself
May 24 17:24:32 * Snafu777 pokes DocScrutinizer05 
May 24 17:47:02 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1426234&postcount=70
May 24 17:49:22 <DocScrutinizer05> look, we really like to do (and actually will do) what we announced, but legally it's not feasible that precise way, so we have to come up with a better wording while doing what we originally announced and planned to do. Our wording of the fineprint didn't serve to establish what everybody incl us thought it would
May 24 17:53:15 <DocScrutinizer05> eventualy we will open normal order page aka webshop, where you can *buy* the Neo900, but we still have the problem of sourcing rare parts which may need months to ship after ordering them, and since we can't order without money and we don't want to order more than we need, we face a problem there that still is pending to get sorted
May 24 17:55:23 <DocScrutinizer05> which doesn't mean that we have any of such problem with the devices already counted from donations, but since we can't continue that exact donation pseudo preorder thing any longer, we have to come up with sth different. It's yet undecided what exactly this will be. Meanwhile you can transfer money to the UG bank account and trust in us handling it correctly
May 24 17:56:13 <DocScrutinizer05> data of bank account is available via mail to contact@neo900.org, or here on IRC in a /query to me
May 24 17:57:44 <Snafu777> Ok, cool
May 24 17:57:52 <Snafu777> Any idea on the rough price so far DocScrutinizer05 ?
May 24 17:59:16 <DocScrutinizer05> still same, we hope for 700EUR for the bare board. Complete device is the "critical components hard to source" and not yet completely clear how many and on which price we can source and how long it takes. I expect we get away with max 150 on top of the bare board
May 24 17:59:56 <DocScrutinizer05> please /join #neo900
May 24 18:00:20 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a tad inappropriate and OT in here
May 24 18:05:04 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: wouldn't it be used n900 + labour?
May 24 18:05:15 * kerio has no idea of what a n900 goes for nowadays
May 24 18:05:53 <DocScrutinizer05> basically yes, when we anticipate we can get a few hundred used N900 and all of them are in "perfect condition" regarding screen and case aso
May 24 18:06:37 <DocScrutinizer05> (what a n900 goes for nowadays) wll, the 150 are based on exactly that
May 24 18:07:03 <DocScrutinizer05> (excl labor)
May 24 18:08:10 <DocScrutinizer05> we *hope* to spot sources which have new spare parts for *everything* we need, in volumes and at reasonable prices
May 24 18:09:26 <DocScrutinizer05> it doesn't help us much if we in the end have 1000 cases, stylii, cam modules, LCD, touchscreens, antennas, batteries, but cannot find the slider mech
May 24 18:09:55 <DocScrutinizer05> again, please join #neo900, it's really OT in here
May 24 20:25:26 <mtnman> hello
May 24 20:25:35 <mtnman> when i try to 
May 24 20:26:51 <mtnman> hello when i try to play audio, i get a msg that the audio is in use by another program.  how can i find out which is the offending program?
May 24 20:27:29 <mtnman> actually it says "application" not program
May 24 20:29:35 <mtnman> hello when i try to play audio, i get a msg that the audio is in use by another application.  how can i find out which is the offending application??
May 24 20:40:12 <Sicelo> you're trying to play audio with what?
May 24 20:43:13 <Sicelo> anyway, seems N900 can have that problem is something's up with DNS settings (weird?) .. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38998
May 24 20:48:44 <Sicelo> s/is/if/
May 24 20:48:44 <infobot> Sicelo meant: anyway, seems N900 can have that problem if something's up with DNS settings (weird?) .. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38998
May 24 21:06:25 <mtnman> dsfasf
May 24 21:06:32 <mtnman> opsops
May 24 21:06:38 <mtnman> oops!!!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 25 02:59:58 2014