**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 08 02:59:59 2014 Jun 08 06:50:12 A wonderful 9Pentecost (UGT) to You all! Jun 08 11:11:59 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktopvV1787.png heatwave Jun 08 11:13:54 hai al Jun 08 11:32:25 ~waether eddn Jun 08 11:32:45 ~weather eddn Jun 08 11:32:47 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2014.06.08 1120 UTC; Dew Point: 51 F (11 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.12 in. Hg (1020 hPa); Relative Humidity: 29%; Temperature: 87 F (31 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: Variable at 7 MPH (6 KT) Jun 08 11:33:47 hi Gatta_Negra Jun 08 11:36:09 DocScrutinizer05, Hi! Jun 08 11:36:25 I am happy to read the cool news about the N900 project! Jun 08 11:37:02 :-) Jun 08 11:49:07 Gatta_Negra: which news in particular? Seems there's little real news during at least last week ;-) Jun 08 11:50:59 ok, since Thursday evening Neo900 UG can actually access own bank account via online banking (finally!), that's for sure great. But not really big news Jun 08 11:52:06 given the fact the bank account been opened 2014-03(!!)-18, it's actually rather a sad and annoying story about Deutsche Bank Jun 08 11:52:08 I had the chance to glance the info mail yesterday and I got really excited Jun 08 11:54:14 excited? I havn't found anything excited in it Jun 08 11:57:47 oh well, Sebastian (dos1) for sure did some exciting tests/verifications and patches with/for our PHS8 module, regarding compatibility with FSO, GPS/GLONASS, and connectivity Jun 08 12:08:34 and definitely Werner Almesberger is an invaluable gain for the project Jun 08 12:10:42 I'm hoping for Paul Fertser to take care about maintaining a 3.x kernel (repo) at Neo900.org (or wherever) to merge and coordinate the work done by HNS, freemangordon, SBE, and whoever contributes to upstream Jun 08 12:11:17 ~seen fatphil Jun 08 12:11:21 fatphil <~pcarmody@87-119-183-129.tll.elisa.ee> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 205d 16h 43m 51s ago, saying: 'fark! yeah, the broken clip had migrated a long way from where it should be. No exploding springs from the non-broken one '. Jun 08 12:42:07 Defiant: I hope the next prototype will bring more stuff you'll find exciting. E.G. the "multitouch" dualtouch-gesture-recognition in touchscreen. And display half at large brought up to operation (minus frontcam). All sensors. Kbd (incl [RGB?] backlight). Maybe some additional jacks tested to come on spacerframe... Jun 08 12:47:41 DocScrutinizer05: sorry, didn't mean that, meant the money thing Jun 08 12:50:29 the money thing is an unavoidable annoyinace basically. Sorry we had it wrong from beginning and now need to sort it, but we're in better shape than we were some months ago now - just transfer needs to finish successfully Jun 08 12:51:56 for now ~60 transfers with a total of ~11k got accomplished, hoping for more to happen till end of month Jun 08 13:04:08 DocScrutinizer05: thanks for posting the full paste. I was going to attach it in a textfile to the post but I got called out. Jun 08 13:04:28 yw, a negligence Jun 08 13:05:10 just frowned about pastebin which exires eventually, rendering another useful post in a forum moot Jun 08 13:06:31 much like all the references to *external* pictures that sooner or later vanish leaving the post with broken embedded pictures Jun 08 13:06:51 I consider it a bug in vBulletin Jun 08 13:07:23 embedding external sources is a NoGo basically, for various reasons Jun 08 13:07:50 chem|st: ^^^ Jun 08 13:08:31 I prolly should have pasted straight into the forum, but I was under pressure to get to a job. Jun 08 13:08:44 np, nevermind Jun 08 13:08:46 :-) Jun 08 13:09:10 you're free to edit your post, then I can delete mine Jun 08 13:09:33 just drop me a note when you do Jun 08 13:09:50 Ok I'll do that now then to save the huge post, if that's ok Jun 08 13:10:07 sure it is OK Jun 08 13:10:31 don't worry about huge posts! :-) Jun 08 13:11:25 better a huge post with actually useful info, than 30 posts with 95% quotes of noise, each Jun 08 13:12:20 tbh I pretty much despise those fullquote posts - though sometimes even I do Jun 08 13:13:42 luckily - after a rant from my side - vBulletin/tmo recently learned to not embed embedded photos in fullquotes anymore - at least that Jun 08 13:15:48 done Jun 08 13:15:49 post#1 "look what I did: " - post#2 " [quote]look what I did: [/quote] thanks!" Jun 08 13:16:00 X-P Jun 08 13:16:15 sixwheeledbeast: please share a link, I closed the thread Jun 08 13:16:40 np, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1428683&postcount=13 Jun 08 13:17:54 cleaned :-) Jun 08 13:18:03 :) Jun 08 13:37:01 OK then, new modRana is out! :) Jun 08 13:37:42 should fix the tile loading issue that showed up after the previous update Jun 08 13:40:25 M4rtinK2: \o/ Jun 08 13:42:39 M4rtinK2: and a huge thanks for doing all this persevering maintenance which does a good job for keeping maemo5 attractive and alive Jun 08 13:43:28 alas a lot of package maintainers abandoned ship for Harmattan and now even sailfish Jun 08 13:44:39 well, I just don't like dropping support for platforms left and right :) Jun 08 13:45:13 actually I still kinda support the Neo FreeRunner :) Jun 08 13:46:24 which isn't too devastating for more or less static stuff like e.g. irc clients, since IRC protocol is quite mature and fixed. Or even things like games or strictly local apps. But stuff that works with internet at large often sees changes in the public stuff (maps changing, Fahrplan website structure changing) which render the maemo5 app broken. Jun 08 13:47:24 M4rtinK2: (Neo Freerunner) awesome! and in the end it benefits your project, since people see it's reliable and LTS Jun 08 13:48:22 I honestly cheerfully whould drop crappy KDE4 at large - for example, if only KDE3 still received at least maintenance support Jun 08 13:49:24 well, there is already KDE5, you can drop 4 now :) Jun 08 13:49:38 Don't worry, KDE5 is even crappier Jun 08 13:50:02 saying, a package's quality is not only determined by the obvious immediate properties but also by the trust you put into it to keep up support so your decision for a package isn't sth you regret a 6 months later Jun 08 13:50:07 DocScrutinizer05: well, there is still one friend using modRana on the Neo, don't know about anyone else but there could be some users somewhere Jun 08 13:50:10 So you can now complain of how KDE4 is something you would use if not for the lack of support Jun 08 13:50:52 still, it is not that maintenance intensive - it even has a newer Python version that Maemo 5 :) Jun 08 13:51:17 still, I've actually semi-dropped Harmattan Jun 08 13:51:43 I *think* there is python3 available for maemo5, just not in core metapackage Jun 08 13:51:44 as it is the only platform that is currently covered only by the Qt4 GUI Jun 08 13:52:00 well, even 2.7 is there IIRC Jun 08 13:52:29 but that would add some considerable dependencies Jun 08 13:52:50 so I'm still using 2.5 as a baseline Jun 08 13:53:09 turns out one can write code that runs on 2.5 and 3.4 at the same time Jun 08 13:53:22 and the amount of hacks isn't even that crazy :) Jun 08 13:53:41 as long as the additional maintenance effort is manageable, it's for sure a good thing to keep it on 2.5 Jun 08 13:54:33 ((turns out one can write code that runs on 2.5 and 3.4 at the same time)) this qualifies you as a truly mature and experienced developer :-) Jun 08 13:58:45 twinklephone for example had compile options to build it with or without KDE integration, and even Qt/X11 integration. And the KDE enabled version still would run on non-KDE desktops, just the stuff that depends on e.g. kdepim would be disabled then Jun 08 13:59:24 M4rtinK: some time ago someone asked you about libgarmin support and vectormaps loader, have you some plan about that? Or am i missing something that is already working concerning this? Jun 08 14:01:13 the X11 version supposed to run on most of *nix versions out there (depending mainly on audio bindings), and the non-X11 version even should run on arbitrary platforms probably as long as they are posix, if only they have a cmd shell and a compatible/supported audio subsystem Jun 08 14:02:05 xes: haven't worked on that yet Jun 08 14:02:48 xes: haven't really even looked how libgarmin actually works Jun 08 14:03:37 M4rtinK: libgarmin can be compiled without problems inside maemo (and also navit works with it - but navit gui...is... not a gui) Jun 08 14:03:49 (twinklephone) the pity is that Qt4 basically killed twinklephone Jun 08 14:04:23 xes: I guess it provides support for working with the Garmin map format ? Jun 08 14:04:43 DocScrutinizer05: and pulseaudio has done the remaining part of the killing twinkle Jun 08 14:05:04 there are still a few packages and updates coming through the builder. But yes I agree props to the likes of MartinK and Marxian for having multi-platform support. Jun 08 14:05:05 M4rtinK: yep, it's a configure option Jun 08 14:05:28 sixwheeledbeast: thanks! :) Jun 08 14:05:38 np, you deserve it. Jun 08 14:05:48 xes: well, kinda, since PolypAudio forced apps to switch their audio interface, thanks to PukeAudio not providing a *working* compatibility layer for apps using ALSA audio interface Jun 08 14:06:05 I really don't like the current bunch of incompatible platforms & mobile applications so I'm trying to do something about it :) Jun 08 14:06:31 xes: has it some interface usable from Python ? Jun 08 14:06:58 twinkle still works great, even under KDE4, but only when you give PA some decent hard kicks to bend it into shape, or completely get rid of that PA crap all together Jun 08 14:07:15 xes: I guess it could be plugged in as a geometry provider for the rendering pipeline (well, once there is a pipeline :) ) Jun 08 14:08:15 xes: I plan to have both quite independent so different data sources and rendering methods can be used, maybe even depending on platform Jun 08 14:08:51 xes: for example Cairo vs using the QtQuick 2.0 Canvas directly Jun 08 14:08:55 xes: I admit the maintainers/devels of librtpcpp etc also did a `great´ job by shipping ABI-incompatible libs under same so-name Jun 08 14:09:12 a `great´ job to kill twinkle Jun 08 14:09:30 ohmy Jun 08 14:09:50 xes: or the Mapnik Maemo 5 port marmistrz did Jun 08 14:10:02 xes: but still a lot of work ahead so any help would be appreciated :) Jun 08 14:11:26 M4rtinK: i'm searching for a libgarmin's python interface.. Jun 08 14:12:20 DocScrutinizer05: i was used to use twinkle 10 hours a day for at least 4 years... not i can't anymore since it's completely intable with pulseaudio and latest ditro Jun 08 14:12:24 *distro Jun 08 14:12:37 :nod: Jun 08 14:12:56 did you ponder getting rid of PA? Jun 08 14:13:29 or use a dedicated audiocard for twinkle that's not known and tainted by PA? Jun 08 14:14:22 xes: btw awesome to hear you used twinkle. maybe eventually you are in the mood to check the german translation ;-) Jun 08 14:16:41 xes: actually it seems nobody but you and a few callcenters really understood the power of twinklephone. It is more powerful than any other SIP softphone I know of, thanks to the scripting and rich config options Jun 08 14:17:41 DocScrutinizer05: it was working great with a bluetooth earpiece... now setup it again removing PA while every app is using it, i can't expect a good result Jun 08 14:18:37 yeah, BT is a problem since it doesn't come with PA-free drivers for audio Jun 08 14:19:49 ...and then there is the Bluez 4/5 trainwreck :) Jun 08 14:19:59 however maybe you could use bluez to make a BT dongle appear like a normal ALSA audiocard in /dev/audio/* and then just use that for twinklephone Jun 08 14:21:28 PA is an annoyance already, Bluez however turns it into a killer PITA Jun 08 14:22:32 alas twinkle's audio interface depends on functions like buffer clear which PA doesn't offer Jun 08 14:22:36 DocScrutinizer05: i have tried also sflphone.. :( complete no-go. It continuosly hangs channels inside asterisk.... Jun 08 15:00:06 M4rtinK: maybe this could be a starting point: http://granjow.net/projects.html#garmin Jun 08 15:01:45 xes: Michel deBoer - author of twinklephone - also contributed to several RFCs for SIP ;-) Jun 08 15:02:06 Nice. Jun 08 15:04:50 http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-boer-sip-src-00.txt for example. Michel worked at Lucent (and iirc does again now) Jun 08 15:07:43 http://tools.ietf.org/googleresults?cx=011177064926444307064%3Arsqif7nmmi0&q=M+de+Boer&sa=Google+Search&cof=FORID%3A9&siteurl=tools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2F&ref=&ss=3575j2386295j11 Jun 08 15:10:25 DocScrutinizer05: was twinkle abandoned only due qt4? Jun 08 15:10:27 xes: you should expect the tool he wrote to test SIP servers would be standards compliant Jun 08 15:10:31 yes Jun 08 15:12:21 particularly because twinkle used qt3 in a way that created incompatibilities with qt4 regarding thread-safe iirc Jun 08 15:12:41 qt4 has a different concept of concurrent threats Jun 08 15:13:22 which would cause all sorts of deadlock situations when simply brinlessly porting twinkle-qt3 to qt4 Jun 08 15:13:30 brainlessly* Jun 08 15:13:52 thus it would need a *complete* redesign of twinkle's GUI Jun 08 15:14:06 not the layout but the "API" Jun 08 15:14:18 the "binding" Jun 08 15:14:44 that's how I seem to recall what Michel told me Jun 08 15:15:28 DocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks Jun 08 15:16:05 and since Michel always been rather annoyed by alll aspects of having to create a UI for his tool, it been a clear decision to not do the qt4 move Jun 08 15:16:44 (in the and 50 .. 75% of UI design been based on my suggestions) Jun 08 15:17:37 (as well as 90% of scripting hooks, and 50% of smdline interface) Jun 08 15:18:37 it's sad that it doesn't have a least a command line ui (afaik) Jun 08 15:18:38 *in the End* Jun 08 15:18:57 sorry? Jun 08 15:20:34 http://privatepaste.com/2cdc5b411e Jun 08 15:21:54 smd lines Jun 08 15:22:12 DocScrutinizer05: ops, i missed it! So why leave the entire project? Jun 08 15:22:33 Michel lost interest Jun 08 15:22:41 prolly got pissed by qt Jun 08 15:24:54 probably if they had continued supporting pulseaudio the application would still be the best and maybe someone else would have contributed giving it a new gui Jun 08 15:24:58 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktopOT1787.png Jun 08 15:25:49 pukeaudio is missing functions twinkle needs to do proper audio output, aiui Jun 08 15:26:55 and Nichel been completely detached from audio interface - even got it "donated" by another developer Jun 08 15:27:00 Michel* Jun 08 15:27:07 damn bootlooping n900, and no idea why Jun 08 15:27:18 o.O Jun 08 15:27:38 my best guess is it's a battery problem, because I don't even get to the bootmenu menu, only up till u-boot Jun 08 15:28:51 ahh Jun 08 15:28:59 time for the yearly update check Jun 08 15:29:19 xes: twinkle even builds a qt-free cmdline-only binary with every make, iirc Jun 08 15:30:23 merlin1991: so what about uBoot menu? Jun 08 15:30:33 is that stable? Jun 08 15:31:00 is there such a thing like uBoot menu at all? (I dunno, honestly) Jun 08 15:31:05 well it always gets that far thank to flabat recovery ... Jun 08 15:31:32 yes with any semi recent (years by now?) old u-boot you get a menu when the keyboard is up while booting Jun 08 15:31:56 flatbat recovery stops when device boots 8or rather other way round) Jun 08 15:32:15 yep Jun 08 15:32:21 and uBoot afaik doesn't do any charging Jun 08 15:32:24 then u-boot menu kicks in, and then it dies again :D Jun 08 15:32:43 that's bat then Jun 08 15:32:59 unless uBoot menu timeout and autoboot kicks in Jun 08 15:33:09 or watchdog Jun 08 15:33:15 (30s ?) Jun 08 15:33:52 I find it a bit silly that bootmenu has a timeout of 30s while the device will be killed by watchdog when 7s left Jun 08 15:34:06 before it selects default that is Jun 08 15:34:17 or whatever it does after 30s Jun 08 15:35:57 merlin1991: lemme dare a far fetched guess: you sored away the N900 incl battery depeleted, for 6 months. Now cell is dead, killed by storage at depleted charge state Jun 08 15:36:04 stored* Jun 08 15:36:21 ~batteryfaq Jun 08 15:36:22 somebody said batteryfaq was http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Jun 08 15:36:33 it actually booted in my pr1.3.1 device :) (swapped the batteries) Jun 08 15:36:52 hmm Jun 08 15:36:53 ok so there's 2 updates in HAM Jun 08 15:37:00 one for ssu package Jun 08 15:37:06 and one for ssu enabler Jun 08 15:37:14 do I have to do these in any particular order? Jun 08 15:37:31 update for cssu-enabler??? :-o Jun 08 15:37:42 okay this weird Jun 08 15:37:45 wtf? Jun 08 15:37:55 I did put the now semi charged battery back into the original phone Jun 08 15:38:11 charger in, act dead booting fails at u-boot "starting kernel" Jun 08 15:38:12 oh god, it booted Jun 08 15:38:23 [17:37:30] update for cssu-enabler??? :-o Jun 08 15:38:24 charger out, battery out, batter in, turn it on by hand Jun 08 15:38:26 just boots Jun 08 15:38:27 wtf Jun 08 15:38:29 anything weird with this? Jun 08 15:39:01 FIQ: depends, what version is your cssu-enabler? Jun 08 15:39:02 Community SSU enabler 0.7-4+thumb1 20kB Jun 08 15:39:07 um Jun 08 15:39:10 cssu-enabler actually should get uninstalled after cssu enabled Jun 08 15:39:13 how do I check? Jun 08 15:39:21 let's see Jun 08 15:39:28 dpkg -l community-ssu-enabler Jun 08 15:39:33 dpkg -l I guess Jun 08 15:39:34 yeah Jun 08 15:39:38 I don't see what for you'd need the enabler on a CSSU system Jun 08 15:39:57 0.7-4 Jun 08 15:40:00 is installed Jun 08 15:40:14 DocScrutinizer05: no idea, I just followed the installation process Jun 08 15:40:19 somehow it stayed Jun 08 15:40:24 FIQ: you got thumb on your system? Jun 08 15:40:28 yes Jun 08 15:40:32 there you are Jun 08 15:40:46 Tmaemo9.1+thumb0 Jun 08 15:40:57 I strongly deprecate updating the enabler Jun 08 15:40:59 freemangordon made a new version, because installing thumb on a non errata fixed kernel blows up in your face Jun 08 15:41:05 so what should I do? uninstall the enabler? Jun 08 15:41:11 ah Jun 08 15:41:12 i'm no expert of enabler, but it sounds *very* fishy Jun 08 15:41:35 it would reset your catalogs I guess Jun 08 15:41:41 don't uninstall the enabler, but no need to update it either Jun 08 15:41:46 ok Jun 08 15:42:16 it's just for the brave people that install thumb on stock kernel nowadays (doesn't work anymore since the libc thumb build) Jun 08 15:42:40 so what's the difference between Tmaemo9.1+thumb0 and thumb1? Jun 08 15:42:40 *cough* Jun 08 15:43:02 one version diff ;-) Jun 08 15:43:06 are there any known incompatabilities with backupmenu and act-dead charging? Jun 08 15:43:06 Tmaemo9.1+ and the Digit Jun 08 15:43:31 Apic: I skipped that part because it stayed the same Jun 08 15:43:35 ic Jun 08 15:43:39 Good Algorithm. Jun 08 15:43:40 both are T9.1 :P Jun 08 15:43:41 ic Jun 08 15:43:43 merlin1991: definitely not Jun 08 15:43:48 Will try to remember. Jun 08 15:43:56 looks like I have it (enabler) as well Jun 08 15:44:25 merlin1991: well, you shouldn't expect act-dead when you plug in a phone with open slide Jun 08 15:45:51 I *think* I uninstalled enabler as soon as I used it and CSSU got enabled - if only to get rid of the icon Jun 08 15:46:08 the icon is removed once you run it ... Jun 08 15:46:17 aaah Jun 08 15:46:18 I don't have the icon Jun 08 15:46:27 it should deinstall itself rather Jun 08 15:46:40 hmm Jun 08 15:46:55 I wonder if it would be possible to make a de-cssu package Jun 08 15:47:06 no it isn't Jun 08 15:47:25 pali once tried that, but it been a fail more or less Jun 08 15:47:57 you can't roll back from CSSU to stock, except with flashing or restoring a backup Jun 08 15:48:25 why not? new configurations that mess up in 1.3.1? Jun 08 15:48:36 lots of stuff Jun 08 15:48:59 shouldn't it be possible Jun 08 15:49:03 all sorts of patches done to core system, the thing CSSU got invented for Jun 08 15:49:14 to see exact what packages are updated, what changes are made Jun 08 15:49:22 so you need to resore core system, aka "reflash" Jun 08 15:49:26 between an update from 1.3 to CSSU Jun 08 15:49:35 and "reverse" them all? Jun 08 15:49:46 why would anybody want to do that? Jun 08 15:49:56 the only thing I can see it useful for Jun 08 15:50:04 is if one wants to switch cssu branch Jun 08 15:50:12 cssu->testing for instance Jun 08 15:50:32 you can switch stable->testing any time you want Jun 08 15:50:43 but not the reverse Jun 08 15:50:47 but not the other direction ;) Jun 08 15:51:03 oh ? I always thought this one would get messy as well Jun 08 15:51:14 nope, no problem in that one Jun 08 15:51:43 just "install" testing over your stable. Right, merlin1991? Jun 08 15:52:14 just enable the testing catalogue and install the metapackage update Jun 08 15:52:57 that's the hacker smart way Jun 08 15:53:02 neat Jun 08 15:53:42 but shouldn't cssu-testing *install* just fine, exactly like told on cssu howto page, over cssu-stable as well? Jun 08 15:53:49 I might give it a try some day ... but not before I get my hands on sb/maemo-sdk Jun 08 15:55:09 I:E: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation Jun 08 15:57:04 merlin1991: shoukd we update http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation to mention cssu-stable as a valid basis for installation of cssu-testing (along with PR1.3 and PR.1.3.1)? Jun 08 16:21:59 FIQ: Jun 08 16:22:02 ~cssu-thumb Jun 08 16:22:03 hmm... cssu-thumb is [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb Jun 08 16:22:24 check the changelog Jun 08 16:22:24 btw after upgrade, device never rebooted Jun 08 16:22:33 but left me with a dead WM Jun 08 16:22:42 happens sometimes Jun 08 16:23:01 but should be ok after manually power down Jun 08 16:23:02 and I checked changelog @ package manager :P Jun 08 16:23:11 good for you :) Jun 08 16:23:13 yeah everything seems ok Jun 08 16:23:18 nd yay for proper HAM Jun 08 16:23:20 *and Jun 08 16:24:09 actually glibc in that last update brings problems, but I still can't find a way to rollback it to non-thumb version Jun 08 16:24:38 s/way/time/ Jun 08 16:24:38 freemangordon meant: actually glibc in that last update brings problems, but I still can't find a time to rollback it to non-thumb version Jun 08 16:24:47 what is the issues? Jun 08 16:25:13 xes: (when you read chanlog maybe) http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktopUq1787.png just works, for me Jun 08 16:25:43 FIQ: read on the very same thread Jun 08 16:25:53 * freemangordon is afk Jun 08 16:27:40 yeah proper ham! \o/ Jun 08 16:27:44 ~speedyham Jun 08 16:27:45 from memory, speedyham is http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb, or in cssu-thumb Jun 08 16:32:59 *ouch* on thombified libc6 Jun 08 16:33:08 ah so libc6 is busted Jun 08 16:33:47 yeah, and it's probably a *very* bad idea to even touch libc6 on any system unless you absolutely have to, to make system work Jun 08 16:35:25 to make matters worse, I don't see any huge benefit in reduction of memory footprint from messing around with libc6, but a possible performance penalty (and obviously also possible instabilities) in *all* programs Jun 08 16:36:56 after all libc6 is a shared library that only uses memory once, for all processes that use libc6 (== *all*) Jun 08 16:37:34 and thumb is said to be slower than arm Jun 08 16:38:25 so even when you *theoretically* could squeeze dozens of MB out of thumbifying libc6, it's still not worth it Jun 08 16:39:05 thumb *is* slower than arm, but since N900's bottleneck is the lack of RAM, thumb compiled stuff with less memory footprint is a good idea Jun 08 16:39:08 libc6 though... Jun 08 16:39:09 and most likely you cannot squeeze out that amount of RAM from it, anyway Jun 08 16:39:19 I guess it depends on how slower it really compares Jun 08 16:40:09 FIQ: libc6 only gets loaded *once*, then the argument about bottleneck and bandwith to storage is absolutely moot Jun 08 16:41:04 yeah, hence "[18:39:08] libc6 though..." Jun 08 16:42:08 if I had to pick anything out of the average unix system I would recommend to throw huge amounts of RAM at to speed up the system by a marginal few percent, then that would be libc6 - unless I opted against that since libc6 is sacrosankt and a don't-touch item Jun 08 16:43:11 for touching it you usually get shot with old windows95 CDs Jun 08 16:55:23 lol Jun 08 17:02:49 . Jun 08 17:03:45 , Jun 08 17:05:10 ? Jun 08 17:06:33 ? Jun 08 17:14:19 ! Jun 08 17:16:01 How dangerous is it when one charges battery by connecting wires to it inside phone ? Or using testpads ? Jun 08 17:16:47 very dangerous Jun 08 17:16:55 strictly deprecated Jun 08 17:17:56 Why ? How can i do it sanely ? Jun 08 17:18:07 you need a special permission to do this. Called EE professional education Jun 08 17:18:35 I know :D Jun 08 17:18:56 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=LiIOn+explosion Jun 08 17:19:10 But i need a poor man version . Jun 08 17:19:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsAymO7Y9lU Jun 08 17:19:37 here's your poor man version Jun 08 17:19:43 why do you want to do this Jun 08 17:19:52 Dont link me those they have already scared the hell out of me Jun 08 17:19:55 exactly what you asked for Jun 08 17:20:02 you can buy external chargers Jun 08 17:20:21 if you're lucky (like me) you get a good one which does the proper security checks and proper charging Jun 08 17:20:25 if you're unlucky... Jun 08 17:20:41 (I made sure to verify that the one I got was sane) Jun 08 17:21:20 I repaired a spare n900 but it got no usb as it needed to be ripped of along with some tiny black beads. Jun 08 17:21:46 when you try to do such 2-wire stupid charging inside N900, you get even further risk of damaging the N900 electronics Jun 08 17:21:49 ooh broken usbs are always fun Jun 08 17:22:00 get a desktop charger to fit bl5j Jun 08 17:22:08 indeed! Jun 08 17:22:10 that's why I got a charger :P Jun 08 17:22:10 Nokiabot: I've got some old BL-5J based Nokia with broken screen for something like $5 on local equivalent of eBay Jun 08 17:22:22 What is a dextop charger ? Jun 08 17:22:30 and it works for me as a charger Jun 08 17:22:56 afaik nokia doesn't make their own Jun 08 17:22:58 I got a whole store of chargers Jun 08 17:23:03 so you have to rely on... stuff Jun 08 17:23:32 What i want is the battery to be inside Jun 08 17:23:45 like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380877061430 there are also USB and car versions Jun 08 17:23:47 then fix USB Jun 08 17:24:07 http://www.nokia.com/global/search/?action=siteSearch&qt=bl-5j&weight=products Jun 08 17:24:31 FIQ: Nokia actually builds a charger Jun 08 17:24:39 oh they do? Jun 08 17:24:45 @Dos check my thread i posted couple of days ago what do you think ?? Jun 08 17:24:45 didn't find when I checked 2y ago Jun 08 17:24:51 yes, and it craps out on 1000mAh Jun 08 17:24:52 maybe I was just blind Jun 08 17:24:54 ;-P Jun 08 17:25:14 @Doc Jun 08 17:25:25 let's try and find whatever I got Jun 08 17:26:08 @doc i was thinking if i use a good charger with battery protection outside ? Jun 08 17:27:02 DocScrutinizer05: microB doesn't like that site Jun 08 17:27:22 surprise surprise X-P Jun 08 17:28:14 Nokiabot: *might* work, low risk of exploding battery but still high risk of killing N900, and probably charging won't work anyway this way Jun 08 17:28:21 So actually i need to relay on external charger finally ?? I wanted that piece 24x7 :( Jun 08 17:29:09 Nokiabot: please omit "@" and use (or whatever your client has) to nick-complete. I have no highlight on "doc" Jun 08 17:30:18 It got nothing check jmirc Jun 08 17:30:38 Nokiabot: it *is* possible to maintain battery in device in a usb-broken N900, but it's not exactly simple and needs EE skills to do it right Jun 08 17:30:38 :p Jun 08 17:31:19 jmirc... Jun 08 17:31:45 from what I saw coolIRC makes jmirc obsolete Jun 08 17:32:01 but it's still a terrible client... not that there is any good j2me irc clients Jun 08 17:32:30 >>mIRC provides basic tab-completion functionality that will be familiar to anyone who's used a modern command-line interface. Type the first letter or so of a nickname and press the Tab key. mIRC will then complete the rest of the nickname for you, as shown in . If more than one nick starts with the part that you typed, mIRC will allow you to cycle through the available options by repeatedly pressing the Tab key.<< Jun 08 17:32:37 nfc about jmirc Jun 08 17:32:54 I already said i know i requires a hell lota knowledge what i was asking is as i got a bit of experience maybe i could do with some instructions Jun 08 17:32:57 jmirc is a j2me irc client Jun 08 17:33:04 that isn't even remotely close to mIRC Jun 08 17:33:08 besides name Jun 08 17:33:15 (which is probably intentional) Jun 08 17:33:16 Nokiabot: yes, for sure possible Jun 08 17:33:43 Nokiabot: "docS: would be welcome as highlight Jun 08 17:33:55 Nokiabot: "docS:" would be welcome as highlight Jun 08 17:33:58 doc brown Jun 08 17:34:08 no highlight on doc Jun 08 17:34:17 docS Jun 08 17:35:12 oops sorry! actually "docscr.*" is a highlight regex Jun 08 17:35:31 so "docscr:" would work Jun 08 17:35:36 Docscr Jun 08 17:35:39 yep Jun 08 17:36:43 Gonna get a raspberry pi after exams Jun 08 17:37:33 Nokiabot: you need an external power source that's hard limited to 4.200V *exactly*, and has a sort of current limiter which could be as simple as a 1Ohm 1Watt resistor Jun 08 17:38:00 rather 1.5Ohm Jun 08 17:38:25 with a better circuit you could adjust current limit to 950mA Jun 08 17:38:35 An rj45 cable actuall powers it normaly like a battery so i was wondering if i can easily use a charger Jun 08 17:38:48