**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 14 02:59:59 2014
Jul 14 03:54:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
Jul 14 03:58:51 <Tekk_> ouch?
Jul 14 04:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch for regression
Jul 14 04:16:15 <Tekk_> ah
Jul 14 05:51:34 <freemangordon> Tekk_: for sure it works
Jul 14 05:52:04 <freemangordon> but first you need to choose what you want to do
Jul 14 05:52:15 <freemangordon> (move, delete, etc)
Jul 14 05:52:28 <Tekk_> ah
Jul 14 05:52:32 <Tekk_> I was just getting the order wrong
Jul 14 05:52:42 <Tekk_> thanks freemangordon 
Jul 14 05:53:40 <freemangordon> Tekk_: also, you can search after you select all, that way the selection will be reduced to the search results only
Jul 14 05:54:02 <Tekk_> nice
Jul 14 06:49:33 <Ras_Older> Any tips for where to begin searching for cause since my N900 cannot get a GPS lock? AGPS gets a rough location which I think is the nearby cell tower. I've tested with Ovi Maps, Columbus, CloudGPS and latest with modRana. I'm not that familiar with debugging GPS problems so any protips? :D
Jul 14 06:50:46 <Ras_Older> Columbus shows me the signal strength of the satellites and those seem to never peak from the poor level. Faulty hardware perhaps or does someone have ideas?
Jul 14 06:53:35 <kerio> how much did you wait?
Jul 14 06:53:42 <kerio> is your SUPL server supl.google.com?
Jul 14 06:55:09 <Ras_Older> Well I have been trying for three weeks now and usually I keep it waiting for a hour. I have tried with supl.nokia.com and supl.google.com.
Jul 14 06:55:55 <kerio> don't try with supl.nokia.com, it's useless
Jul 14 06:55:59 <kerio> it should work with supl.google.com
Jul 14 07:00:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~pkg
Jul 14 07:00:43 <infobot> rumour has it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/
Jul 14 07:00:48 <DocScrutinizer05> location test
Jul 14 07:04:38 <DocScrutinizer05> location-test-gui actually
Jul 14 07:05:14 <sixwheeledbeast1> kerio: google.com stopped working only nokia.com worked with the certman fix
Jul 14 07:05:36 <kerio> :(
Jul 14 07:05:37 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk-tools_non-free_armel/location-test-gui/0.93-1+0m5/
Jul 14 07:05:38 <kerio> really
Jul 14 07:07:57 <sixwheeledbeast1> yep. I have now also started having trouble with "My Location" not displaying location this month. I have a A-GPS fix though.
Jul 14 07:09:19 <Ras_Older> DocScrutinizer05: ah thank you! I was looking for that with apt-cache search but I might not had the correct repos active. Downloading and installing now.
Jul 14 07:09:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Jul 14 07:10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> you might be better off with AGPS disabled (plain GPS only) than with a borked supl
Jul 14 07:10:45 <DocScrutinizer05> also make sure you system date and time is somewhat correct-ish
Jul 14 07:11:06 <DocScrutinizer05> it may sound silly but GPS needs an idea of current time to work
Jul 14 07:11:14 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly with AGPS
Jul 14 07:13:55 <DocScrutinizer05> (supl.google.com) yeah, now they got enough data from volunteers to make their supl work, now they restrict the service to their crappy android phones. I wouldn't feel surprised
Jul 14 07:15:34 <sixwheeledbeast> Ras_Older: do you have the certman fix? dpkg-query -W maemosec* (should be version 0.2.3 not 0.2.1)
Jul 14 07:17:16 <DocScrutinizer05> umm, 0.2.2 here :-P
Jul 14 07:17:27 <Ras_Older> sixwheeledbeast: Just checked and I have 0.2.3 installed.
Jul 14 07:18:31 <Ras_Older> Running the Location Test now
Jul 14 07:20:58 <sixwheeledbeast> Ras_Older: ok, I guess you are on CSSU-T too then. I would make sure the system date and time is correct. WFM, it should work unless you have a local issue
Jul 14 07:21:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and not using google supl
Jul 14 07:21:41 <DocScrutinizer05> or simply disable AGPS
Jul 14 07:22:11 <DocScrutinizer05> or enable 3G which often does an incredible job for TTFF
Jul 14 07:22:18 <kerio> so we have to disable agps? :(
Jul 14 07:22:23 <kerio> no wait
Jul 14 07:22:30 <kerio> what was the problem with supl.nokia.com again?
Jul 14 07:22:49 <DocScrutinizer05> see what sixwheeledbeast wrote
Jul 14 07:23:08 <kerio> oh so now it works again? sweet
Jul 14 07:24:05 <DocScrutinizer05> it used to, nfc how long this will last
Jul 14 07:24:19 <Ras_Older> Location test is now running and it got me a rough location. Satellites in view 8 - in use 0. I disabled A-GPS now and remains the same for now. Maybe I should have my coffee break now and head outside briefly for checking those signal levels.
Jul 14 07:24:28 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc FMG found the problem and fixed it
Jul 14 07:24:45 <DocScrutinizer05> in view means nothing
Jul 14 07:24:46 <kerio> Ras_Older: wait, you're testing this indoors?
Jul 14 07:25:06 <Ras_Older> Yeah atm since I am working *cough* 
Jul 14 07:25:37 <DocScrutinizer05> in view means: according the the almanac (whatever data it contains) and the system clock, the calculations say that those sats should be visible for you
Jul 14 07:25:45 <Ras_Older> But yes I have been running all around my town before this and so far no cigar with the locations.
Jul 14 07:26:07 <DocScrutinizer05> GPS indoors is nuts
Jul 14 07:26:29 <DocScrutinizer05> GPS while moving too, basically
Jul 14 07:27:10 <DocScrutinizer05> the almanac algo can't know you're indoors so it says "8 in view"
Jul 14 07:27:44 <DocScrutinizer05> if it knew, it would say "0 in view"
Jul 14 07:28:09 <Ras_Older> Wasn't expecting this fast response so yeah I am indoors still :D
Jul 14 07:30:33 <DocScrutinizer05> I suspect "in view: 8" however means you got *some* almanac data, so your supl might actually work
Jul 14 07:30:48 <DocScrutinizer05> make sure your date and time is correct
Jul 14 07:31:33 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise you pull bogus almanac data and then AGPS will search for those sats forever since they never are where the algo expects them
Jul 14 07:32:32 <DocScrutinizer05> AGPS needs a semi-correct time and a coarse idea of where you are, to work
Jul 14 07:32:34 <Ras_Older> Time & date are correct but I sync'd time just in case.
Jul 14 07:32:46 <kerio> sync your time through GPS!
Jul 14 07:32:57 <DocScrutinizer05> time needs to be exact to the minute maybe
Jul 14 07:33:05 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: hahaha
Jul 14 07:33:42 <DocScrutinizer05> location needs to be exact to a maybe 500km
Jul 14 07:34:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ballpark estimations right from my rear
Jul 14 07:34:45 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: neo900 feature request: manual input of ballpark estimations
Jul 14 07:34:54 <DocScrutinizer05> tzz
Jul 14 07:35:03 <kerio> when everything else fails!
Jul 14 07:35:10 <DocScrutinizer05> how,s that related to hw?
Jul 14 07:35:15 <kerio> i dunno
Jul 14 07:35:20 <DocScrutinizer05> me neither
Jul 14 07:35:30 <kerio> feature request: a special chip that keeps track of where you are
Jul 14 07:35:53 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, you mean... wait... GeePeeEss?
Jul 14 07:35:55 <kerio> nah
Jul 14 07:36:04 <kerio> perhaps a chip with biological elements
Jul 14 07:36:07 <kerio> taken from your rear
Jul 14 07:36:20 <kerio> doc's bum location estimator
Jul 14 07:36:25 <kerio> (pat. pending)
Jul 14 07:36:31 <DocScrutinizer05> I can do that "chip" for your device X-P
Jul 14 07:36:58 <DocScrutinizer05> don't complain about the smell!
Jul 14 07:38:28 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: feature request: argentinian world cup win locator
Jul 14 07:38:32 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API#Location_methods
Jul 14 07:39:45 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: as i can see there, there's no way to provide the agps data manually
Jul 14 07:40:05 <DocScrutinizer05> again, not my problem
Jul 14 07:40:44 <DocScrutinizer05> btw, in N810 resp diablo, there *been* such method
Jul 14 07:43:04 <DocScrutinizer05> >>If no network connection or SIM card is available, this equals to GNSS.<< I doubt that
Jul 14 07:47:09 <kerio> anyway, with supl.nokia.com i got a fix really quickly
Jul 14 07:50:29 <DocScrutinizer05> to whom it may concern: liblocation (closed blob) seems to be rextremely well documented regarding what and how it does, and API. RE should be a snap, except for the AGPS/supl data provision to GPS engine in BB5 modem via ISI. Luckily there's an alternative to that soon
Jul 14 07:51:23 <DocScrutinizer05> the Gemalto/Cinterion modem with its GPS has a well documented method to provide the "Assistance" data
Jul 14 07:53:58 <DocScrutinizer05> what's a tiny bit nasty: it's not supl data but gemalto's own format, and it doesn't support any location hint, rather you uploade the *complete* almanac and ephemeral, thus the modem's GPS can do true AGPS only when you have a SIM so it got an idea where you currently are
Jul 14 07:55:32 <DocScrutinizer05> at least that's my uneducated interim estimation on the situation with P*S8 modems
Jul 14 07:56:24 <DocScrutinizer05> in RL however this isn't as bad as it sounds, since the only thing it really rules out is AGPS via WLAN (or USB)
Jul 14 07:56:44 <DocScrutinizer05> s/via/with internet via/
Jul 14 07:56:44 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: in RL however this isn't as bad as it sounds, since the only thing it really rules out is AGPS with internet via WLAN (or USB)
Jul 14 07:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> non-A GPS is still possible
Jul 14 08:06:58 * DocScrutinizer05 just comes to think that GPS correlators are basically exactly same as a string compare command of a "normal CPU"
Jul 14 08:09:03 <DocScrutinizer05> and the more correlations per time unit you can do, the less any AGPS will help for TTFF
Jul 14 08:11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> since aiui the whole point of Assistance for TTFF is to rule out 99% of correlation patterns that don't apply to your location*time anyway, so the engine doesn't need to bother about those moot patterns and can search the likely patterns with all its compuational power
Jul 14 08:13:14 <DocScrutinizer05> once your correlators locked, you got tuned in to your sats and then Assistance only helps with emphemerals which offer increased accuracy since they tell about stuff like ionopheric delay etc
Jul 14 08:13:58 <DocScrutinizer05> but iirc that data gets sent by sats at a much faster cycle time than the almanac which needs some 12 minutes to download it completely
Jul 14 08:14:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ask SpeedEvil
Jul 14 08:14:21 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jul 14 15:13:12 <ult1> Hi guys, i need an advise. After recent installation of custom ruby package (which turned out to be non-optified) got myself a situation: no error msg in dpkg and following gem install <somegems>, but rootfs space exhausted and after moving several big files to /opt, df / still displys 0 bytes free.
Jul 14 15:22:45 <ult1> After reboot ubifs fixed itself, but something got broken in hildon-desktop launch process - as before two instances of it launched from dsme-server and maemo-launcher, but booting just stalls there - got infinite animation. I was able to troubleshoot it to this point: 2 initscripts waiting for file to be created in /tmp. this file is created by hildon-desktop, but strace shows that in case it doesn't exist already, it's presence is never even c
Jul 14 15:30:02 <ult1> i've checked all of /event.d/* /Xsession.[d|post]/* and even diff'ed 'em with backup which is pretty old though. nothing. Also, accidently found out that ubifs overflow has blanked dhclient config script blank, so i've reinstalled with deconfig and conf removal everything *hildon* -related and every package owning /etc/event.d and Xsession, but to no avail. I've come up with sort of workaround, which requires manual /tmp/flagfile creation just b
Jul 14 15:45:37 <ult1> forgot to add, reflash isn't an option, and current booting process requires some initscripts modification (what's worse is that it's unknown to what packages in future it has to be applied, and no way to find out, other than catch error in syslog ) - some of them have  to respawn until hildon is really ready, and don't be killed beacuse of too frequent respawn.
Jul 14 16:41:22 <dos1> hmm...
Jul 14 16:41:41 <dos1> latest cssu should have proper certificates for supl.nokia.com, right?
Jul 14 16:41:50 <kerio> yah
Jul 14 16:42:46 <dos1> this wasn't the case on my device
Jul 14 16:43:03 <kerio> no clue on how to properly test this
Jul 14 16:43:11 <kerio> beyond checking that the fix takes little time
Jul 14 16:43:27 <dos1> when it fails, it's in syslog
Jul 14 16:43:37 <kerio> that's cheating
Jul 14 16:43:38 <kerio> :P
Jul 14 16:45:01 <dos1> and you can check if cert is accepted with openssl utility :P
Jul 14 16:45:32 <dos1> openssl s_client -connect supl.nokia.com:7275 -CApath /
Jul 14 16:46:01 <dos1> (capath seems bogus, but due to a funny bug in this tool it works :P)
Jul 14 16:47:56 <kerio> which bug?
Jul 14 16:48:23 <kerio> also, nokia sucks at ssl
Jul 14 16:48:35 <kerio> you're not supposed to send the CA certificate in the certificate chain
Jul 14 16:49:00 <dos1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl/+bug/396818
Jul 14 16:49:54 * kerio knows ssl
Jul 14 16:50:09 <kerio> as in, my website has an A+ from the ssllabs validator
Jul 14 16:51:45 <dos1> yes, location-proxy fails to connect with supl.nokia.com with verify_res=19 (self signed certificate in certificate chain)
Jul 14 16:53:04 <kerio> that's not a real error, tbh
Jul 14 16:53:10 <kerio> it's just... useless
Jul 14 16:53:19 <kerio> you won't trust the root CA certificate just because it's there
Jul 14 16:53:27 <kerio> so it doesn't really matter if it's sent or not
Jul 14 16:54:38 <dos1> anyway, location-proxy rejects ssl connection to supl.nokia.com on my device, and this results seems to be consistent with what s_client told me
Jul 14 16:54:50 <dos1> so it definitely doesn't work on my device :P
Jul 14 16:59:18 <dos1> and that's only due to SSL issues, with proxy it works fine
Jul 14 17:04:53 <kerio> i reckon the new certman just adds the actual certificate to ca-certificates?
Jul 14 17:07:53 <sixwheeledbeast> dos1: which CSSU version?
Jul 14 17:08:02 <dos1> thumb
Jul 14 17:08:25 <sixwheeledbeast> ah, so you should have the fixed certman then
Jul 14 17:09:27 <sixwheeledbeast> 0.2.3, maybe more certificate issues again?
Jul 14 17:11:07 <dos1> 0.2.3, right
Jul 14 17:11:39 <kerio> https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=acehack.de look at how much green there is
Jul 14 17:29:43 <sixwheeledbeast> ~boot-process
Jul 14 17:29:49 <infobot> see boot-process
Jul 14 17:29:57 <sixwheeledbeast> eh
Jul 14 17:42:39 <kerio> like, compared to https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=maemo.org
Jul 14 17:42:44 <kerio> where there's lots of red and some yellow
Jul 14 17:54:50 <DocScrutinizer05> fix it!
Jul 14 17:55:24 <kerio> do you seriously want ME to hold a private key for a tls maemo.org cert?
Jul 14 19:55:31 <Snafu777> Is there a way to install cssu without being online?
Jul 14 19:55:39 <Snafu777> Could I possibly download whatever packages to make this happen offline?
Jul 14 21:24:21 <sixwheeledbeast> Why would you need to download the packages to make it happen offline
Jul 14 21:25:07 <sixwheeledbeast> o.O
Jul 14 21:26:37 <kerio> ?
Jul 14 21:36:36 <Snafu777> Is it possible to install cssu completly offline?
Jul 14 21:36:43 <Snafu777> I know this is unconventional, but I am curious
Jul 14 22:06:28 <Sicelo> Snafu777: the possibility is there of course ... use `apt-get -d install <pkg-name>`
Jul 14 22:08:07 <Sicelo> if you later open up HAM and want to install CSSU, it will (or should) realize that these packages have already been downloaded, and won't redownload. that means, offline :D
Jul 14 22:10:06 <Snafu777> Right, but do you not have to go to the website using the phone at some pt?
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt> تحذير 
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt> warning    
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt>  you may be  watched
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt> do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy??
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt> do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying??
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt> do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations??
Jul 14 23:42:42 <jehyt> warning    
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 15 02:59:59 2014