**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 18 03:00:00 2014
Jul 18 05:21:35 <DocScrutinizer05> background info: 25'000 employees of Nokia 'moved' to Microsoft, now after 3(?) months Microsoft sets 12'500 of them free
Jul 18 05:23:16 <DocScrutinizer05> my suggestion: the other 12'500 should resign, unite with the fired half, and found a new company. Maybe No-Kia
Jul 18 05:47:23 <Ras_Older> in Finland they are laying off 500 to 1000 (depending on the source) ex-Nokia people :(
Jul 18 06:05:34 <Pysiek_afk> a/wc
Jul 18 09:34:58 <bencoh> everytime I think about setting up a maemo/sb sdk I feel like not really willing to do this :/
Jul 18 09:35:18 <bencoh> "hmm, do I really want to go through this"
Jul 18 11:34:56 <DocScrutinizer05> get the VM
Jul 18 11:35:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~sb
Jul 18 11:35:04 <infobot> it has been said that scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
Jul 18 11:35:40 <APic> DocScrutinizer05: 4♥
Jul 18 11:35:55 <DocScrutinizer05> do you want to marry me?
Jul 18 11:36:17 <DocScrutinizer05> or will a photo suffice ;-)
Jul 18 11:36:33 <APic> I'm not gay.
Jul 18 11:36:41 <APic> That was just platonic.
Jul 18 11:36:50 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah ok
Jul 18 11:37:10 <APic> Because You're _the_ N900-Wizard!
Jul 18 11:38:35 <DocScrutinizer05> may I quote you? :-D
Jul 18 11:38:52 <APic> Sure.
Jul 18 11:40:30 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, setting up a genuine scratchbox indeed is kinda unbearable
Jul 18 11:40:46 <kerio> ~joerg
Jul 18 11:40:47 <infobot> i heard joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org
Jul 18 11:40:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I recall it took me ~2 days
Jul 18 11:40:58 <kerio> infobot: joerg is also _the_ N900-Wizard!
Jul 18 11:40:59 <infobot> cannot alter locked factoids, kerio
Jul 18 11:41:00 <kerio> :(
Jul 18 11:41:58 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: joerg is also _the_ N900-Wizard!
Jul 18 11:41:59 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Jul 18 11:42:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jul 18 11:42:48 <kerio> ~joerg
Jul 18 11:42:48 <infobot> it has been said that joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org, or _the_ N900-Wizard!
Jul 18 11:42:49 <APic> lulz
Jul 18 11:42:53 <kerio> perfect
Jul 18 11:46:09 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org, or ``_the_ N900-Wizard!   <https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2014-07-18.log.html#t2014-07-18T14:37:10>´´
Jul 18 11:46:10 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: i'm not going to learn illegal characters
Jul 18 11:46:20 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org, or _the_ N900-Wizard!   <https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2014-07-18.log.html#t2014-07-18T14:37:10>
Jul 18 11:46:21 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Jul 18 11:47:10 <DocScrutinizer05> illegal characters, tzzzz!
Jul 18 11:47:33 <DocScrutinizer05> seems to me infobot's character is illegal ;-)
Jul 18 13:26:35 <teotwaki> msg infobot crashanddie
Jul 18 13:26:47 <teotwaki> fail
Jul 18 13:26:50 <teotwaki> ~crashanddie
Jul 18 13:26:50 <infobot> somebody said crashanddie was OMG!!!
Jul 18 13:26:57 <teotwaki> ~forget about crashanddie
Jul 18 13:26:57 <infobot> teotwaki: i didn't have anything called 'about crashanddie' to forget
Jul 18 13:27:02 <teotwaki> ~forget crashanddie
Jul 18 13:27:04 <infobot> i forgot crashanddie, teotwaki
Jul 18 13:27:11 <teotwaki> ~teotwaki
Jul 18 14:08:48 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: I ended up manually installing sb on wheezy
Jul 18 14:09:07 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jul 18 14:09:10 <bencoh> fun fact : matchbox wont work without the Composite extension
Jul 18 14:09:23 <bencoh> which means that matchbox wont work with Xvnc/vncserver
Jul 18 14:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jul 18 14:09:52 <bencoh> (thus hildon-desktop wont run)
Jul 18 14:10:04 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno
Jul 18 14:10:10 <bencoh> tested here ;)
Jul 18 14:10:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall using VNC to access N900 from my PC... or was it other way round?
Jul 18 14:11:01 <DocScrutinizer05> one of both worked, I'm pretty sure
Jul 18 14:11:24 <bencoh> both probably worked
Jul 18 14:11:41 <bencoh> be it x11vnc on n900 or vncviewer on n900
Jul 18 14:12:11 <bencoh> but Xvnc spawns its own Xorg instance (like Xephyr)
Jul 18 14:12:31 <DocScrutinizer05> oh. well
Jul 18 14:12:35 <bencoh> (except that it doesnt output to a X window)
Jul 18 14:14:07 * xes still hopes that someone had the time to build a recent x2go for maemo
Jul 18 14:14:21 <DocScrutinizer05> (scratchbox) installing that maemo stuff (rootstraps?) worked?
Jul 18 14:15:02 <bencoh> looks like it did
Jul 18 14:15:14 <bencoh> wiki is pretty accurate
Jul 18 14:15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> cool
Jul 18 14:15:36 <bencoh> yup :)
Jul 18 14:15:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I expected procedure to fail when it comes to getting that magic token
Jul 18 14:16:22 <DocScrutinizer05> well, will happen soon enough, I guess
Jul 18 14:17:13 <bencoh> hmm, the tocken is virtually available in tmo and wiki (on some other page)
Jul 18 14:19:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, but sooner rather than later the binaries protected by that token will vanish I guess
Jul 18 14:19:53 <bencoh> prolly yeah
Jul 18 14:20:15 <bencoh> hmm is fremantle/ a symlink to maemo5.0/ ?
Jul 18 14:20:22 <bencoh> or should I mirror this one as well ?
Jul 18 14:20:29 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry?
Jul 18 14:21:16 <bencoh> the nokia-binaries repo on r.m.o
Jul 18 14:22:18 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: ^^^ could you check repo/stage VM if that's a symlink?
Jul 18 14:23:48 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, do you have a guess where that suspected symlink would be in local filesystem? /var/www/....?
Jul 18 14:24:13 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: ^
Jul 18 14:24:42 <bencoh> I'd check nginx conf for that
Jul 18 14:26:05 <xes> sorry too mobile to use ssh...
Jul 18 14:29:19 <FlameReaper-PC> Just a very curious question... not sure if I could ask here or some other channel
Jul 18 14:30:04 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: I'm not worried abiut nginx config. I'll be able to find vhost root
Jul 18 14:30:21 <FlameReaper-PC> Kinda pointing about the history of the N900 itself. To put it blunt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhTtsZATwBQ <- this
Jul 18 14:30:27 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: oh then it should be in r.m.o/pool/
Jul 18 14:30:40 <FlameReaper-PC> Was this used as a TV commercial or something?
Jul 18 14:30:50 <FlameReaper-PC> Or is it only present in stock N900 devices?
Jul 18 14:32:12 <bencoh> (and probably dist as well)
Jul 18 14:32:16 <DocScrutinizer05>  /var/repository/backup.chr.05092013/live/extras-devel/pool/fremantle-1.2/free/a/aalib/
Jul 18 14:32:36 <bencoh> what's this ?
Jul 18 14:33:09 <DocScrutinizer05> a path from locate fremantle
Jul 18 14:33:27 <DocScrutinizer05> then /(search) pool
Jul 18 14:35:08 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:~$ locate fremantle|less
Jul 18 14:35:09 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:~$ locate fremantle|wc -l
Jul 18 14:35:11 <DocScrutinizer05> 750549
Jul 18 14:36:10 <DocScrutinizer05> gimme a better searchstring, sth more specific
Jul 18 14:37:35 <bencoh> <vhostroot>/pool/fremantle I guess
Jul 18 14:38:06 <DocScrutinizer05> obviously not
Jul 18 14:40:08 <bencoh> hmm, cant tell much more from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/
Jul 18 14:42:01 <DocScrutinizer05> we  got /extras-testing/pool/fremantle/ and whatnot else
Jul 18 14:43:11 <DocScrutinizer05> extras/pool/fremantle/
Jul 18 14:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> all repos are in this vhostroot
Jul 18 14:44:00 <bencoh> hmm
Jul 18 14:44:17 <bencoh> locate maemo5.0|grep "maemo5.0$" ?
Jul 18 14:44:58 <DocScrutinizer05> then there's pool/fremantle-update2/nokia-binaries/4bc37c7c77e*bla/bla/bla
Jul 18 14:46:04 <DocScrutinizer05> /var/repository/live/dists/maemo5.0
Jul 18 14:46:05 <DocScrutinizer05> /var/repository/live/pool/maemo5.0
Jul 18 14:46:54 <bencoh> yay those one I guess
Jul 18 14:47:05 <bencoh> is there a fremantle directory in /var/repository/live/dists as well ?
Jul 18 14:47:06 <DocScrutinizer05> as you might have guessed, /var/repository/ is vhost root 
Jul 18 14:47:10 <bencoh> or are those symlinks ?
Jul 18 14:47:57 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:~$ ls -ld `locate maemo5.0|grep "maemo5.0$" `
Jul 18 14:47:58 <DocScrutinizer05> drwxr-sr-x 5 repository repository 4096 Oct 20  2010 /var/repository/live/dists/maemo5.0
Jul 18 14:48:00 <DocScrutinizer05> drwxr-sr-x 5 repository repository 4096 May 18  2010 /var/repository/live/pool/maemo5.0
Jul 18 14:48:40 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/3cfa4695f5
Jul 18 14:48:47 <DocScrutinizer05> shhh!
Jul 18 14:51:02 <bencoh> hmm
Jul 18 14:51:32 <bencoh> same goes for /var/repository/live/dists/fremantle ?
Jul 18 14:52:28 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/4ff86fc61d
Jul 18 15:04:27 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: afk now. sorry
Jul 18 15:04:46 <bencoh> thanks :)
Jul 18 15:04:51 <bencoh> (seems like a cp -r actually)
Jul 18 15:13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, weird
Jul 18 15:14:39 <DocScrutinizer05> it seems during one of the migrations somebody managed to expand several if not all symlinks
Jul 18 16:43:35 <Macer> uhm
Jul 18 16:43:40 <Macer> are the images no longer available?
Jul 18 16:44:57 <Macer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5
Jul 18 16:45:03 <Macer> oh
Jul 18 16:45:04 <Macer> my bad
Jul 18 16:45:10 <Macer> ~flasher
Jul 18 16:45:11 <infobot> [flasher] at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Jul 18 16:46:07 <Macer> ~emmc
Jul 18 16:46:07 <infobot> hmm... emmc is magnet:?xt=urn:btih:402fb5cc8a48ecbc18a77c9cf70d869a775bcf53&dn=RX-51%5F2009SE%5F10.2010.13-2.VANILLA%5FPR%5FEMMC%5FMR0%5FARM.bin or https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4105928/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.torrent, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin
Jul 18 16:47:10 <Macer> ~combined
Jul 18 16:47:11 <infobot> rumour has it, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Jul 18 16:53:28 <Macer> ugh... seriously
Jul 18 16:53:33 <Macer> you'd think this flasher would be static
Jul 18 17:08:05 <Macer> ugh. i need to fully flash this n900 i sold and can't get any files :/
Jul 18 17:08:06 <Macer> awesome
Jul 18 17:11:24 <Macer> nokia didn't give maemo.org the rights to host the fw and emmc files?
Jul 18 17:22:28 <Macer> so can i just use 0xffff for this?
Jul 18 17:31:09 <sixwheeledbeast> Macer: yes and yes but I have never used 0xFFFF
Jul 18 18:07:13 <Macer> sixwheeledbeast: heh. i didn't either. i just used flasher-3.5 on a windows box 
Jul 18 18:07:22 <Macer> which should be the last time i ever do ;)
Jul 18 18:08:10 <Macer> i just had to wipe the rootfs and emmc 
Jul 18 18:11:02 <Macer> wow. fking awesome. the 32GB isn't being seen
Jul 18 18:11:48 <Macer> this emmc img has to be messed up
Jul 18 18:12:08 <Macer> but of course the awesome torrent that i can get from here doesn't seem to want to work :/
Jul 18 18:12:19 <Macer> ~emmc
Jul 18 18:12:20 <infobot> it has been said that emmc is magnet:?xt=urn:btih:402fb5cc8a48ecbc18a77c9cf70d869a775bcf53&dn=RX-51%5F2009SE%5F10.2010.13-2.VANILLA%5FPR%5FEMMC%5FMR0%5FARM.bin or https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4105928/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.torrent, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin
Jul 18 18:12:50 <Macer> guess i'll just use the central europe one and see what happens .. blah
Jul 18 18:13:15 <Snafu777> ~sex
Jul 18 18:13:16 <infobot> [~sex] updatedb; locate; talk; date; cd; strip; look; touch; finger; unzip; uptime; gawk; head; emerge --oneshot condom; mount; fsck; gasp; more; yes; yes; yes; more; umount; emerge -C condom; make clean;  sleep;
Jul 18 18:24:06 * Macer kicks this n900
Jul 18 18:24:08 <Macer> ahhhhhh!
Jul 18 18:29:33 <Snafu777> ?
Jul 18 18:29:45 <kerio> can't you just ask doc to hook you up
Jul 18 18:32:56 <Macer> it's ok. i got it.
Jul 18 18:33:00 <Macer> it's all flashed heh
Jul 18 18:33:21 <Macer> let me ship it off to the next poor bastard that will rip his hair out over it ;)
Jul 18 18:33:53 <Macer> too bad there is no more maemo from nokia... it really was the most promising OS 
Jul 18 18:36:20 <Nokiabot> Macer:go tell that to elop :p
Jul 18 18:36:59 * sixwheeledbeast is a happy N900 owner
Jul 18 19:52:38 <Macer> haha
Jul 18 19:52:54 <Macer> elop doesn't care. he has his few million net worth :)
Jul 18 19:53:19 <Macer> wp8.1 isn't too bad... but ios is better
Jul 18 19:53:31 <Macer> and it acts pretty much like ios with tiles
Jul 18 19:54:03 <Macer> ah well.. i shipped this thing out.. thanks for the help :) you seriously should consider just hosting those files. i doubt nokia would sue maemo.org haha
Jul 18 20:29:31 <sixwheeledbeast> well another member never to be seen again....
Jul 18 20:30:14 <kerio> sixwheeledbeast: ?
Jul 18 20:30:28 <sixwheeledbeast> Macer
Jul 18 20:31:00 <sixwheeledbeast> although maybe the device will go to a new home
Jul 18 21:37:05 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> Ohai, question, does anyone has a working debian-weezy image for easy debian boot? i tried updating a squeeze image for 1 whole day, the n900 crashed and rebooted and i could not save it anymore, would save me a lot of time
Jul 18 21:37:16 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> the version hosted by Qole is armhf zo can't use that
Jul 18 21:39:00 <ShadowJK> Might work with kernel-power?
Jul 18 21:39:30 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> kernel power?
Jul 18 21:39:39 <ShadowJK> The enhanced kernel
Jul 18 21:39:42 <ShadowJK> for power users
Jul 18 21:39:51 <ShadowJK> It has errata workarounds to make hf mostly work
Jul 18 21:39:57 <ShadowJK> armhf*
Jul 18 21:40:18 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> ah cool
Jul 18 21:40:19 <ShadowJK> Though I guess that's a maemo thing and not a debian thing?
Jul 18 21:40:36 <ShadowJK> For some reaosn I read your "boot" as "chroot" :)
Jul 18 21:40:39 <ShadowJK> reason*
Jul 18 21:40:53 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> well, i ment chroot actually
Jul 18 21:41:32 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> so i think i will first install kernel-power then, any disadvantages?
Jul 18 21:43:16 <ShadowJK> As always, make backups first?
Jul 18 21:43:32 <ShadowJK> It replaced the original kernel. It can not be installed (but you can install the nokia kernel again if you want)
Jul 18 21:44:01 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> of course, but any known regressions with kernel-power?
Jul 18 21:44:13 <ShadowJK> mm Not that I know of
Jul 18 21:44:20 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: hmm, I think you mixed thumb2 with hardfp :)
Jul 18 21:44:30 <ShadowJK> lol oops
Jul 18 21:44:47 <ShadowJK> Nevermind me then :)
Jul 18 21:44:49 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> hmm?
Jul 18 21:45:06 <ShadowJK> freemangordon, please correct my ramblings :D
Jul 18 21:45:29 <freemangordon> hardfp should "just work", afaik it is not related to the kernel
Jul 18 21:46:16 <ShadowJK> As for crashing, stock N900 config is prone to doing that during heavy I/O. I do "echo 1024 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests" after boot, also for mmcblk1 if I have microsd. Seems to make the situation much better
Jul 18 21:46:35 <freemangordon> but if that "hardfp" image is also thumb2 compiled, kernel-power is a must
Jul 18 21:47:29 <freemangordon> TheOnlyJoey|desk: which kernel do you boot with that image?
Jul 18 21:47:39 <ShadowJK> If you're going to be doing alot of I/O or RAM heavy stuff, I would definitely recommend getting a fast memory card, Samsung MicroSDHC Pro is known to be fast, and put your chroot fs and swap on there.
Jul 18 21:47:47 <kerio> well
Jul 18 21:47:59 <kerio> "fast" as in throughput or as in IOPS?
Jul 18 21:48:02 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> 2.6.28-omap1
Jul 18 21:48:10 <freemangordon> kerio: both
Jul 18 21:48:36 <ShadowJK> IOPS
Jul 18 21:48:51 <ShadowJK> I don't really remember or look at throughput
Jul 18 21:49:33 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> freemangordon, when i boot that image, i get errors about arch mismatch and such, so i think i need a different kernel to do that
Jul 18 21:49:44 <freemangordon> TheOnlyJoey|desk: hmm, are you sure you boot it with the correct kernel? also, iirc qole's image is for chroot, not for booting
Jul 18 21:49:59 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> freemangordon, i ment chroot
Jul 18 21:49:59 <freemangordon> or this is another "image" I am not aware of
Jul 18 21:50:17 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> i am trying to boot debian_wheezy3sulu_armhf.img which is the latest wheezy
Jul 18 21:50:43 <freemangordon> then you'd better ask sulu how to do it, there is a thread on TMO
Jul 18 21:53:13 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> well as long as my kernel supports armhf it should work
Jul 18 21:53:20 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> so i think i just need another kernel
Jul 18 21:55:04 <freemangordon> TheOnlyJoey|desk: hardfp is not a kernel thing afaik, it is how the FP arguments are passed when you call a function - it is either via integer registers (softfp) or FP registers (hardfp)
Jul 18 21:55:58 <freemangordon> anyway, you may want to install kernel-power and test with it, though I doubt it will help
Jul 18 21:56:27 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> well if kernel-power is beter anyway, no harm in doing that as well
Jul 18 21:56:31 <freemangordon> sure
Jul 18 22:03:07 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> now running kernel52 :)
Jul 18 22:04:11 <arcean> freemangordon: iirc from harmattan times you can't run hardfp software on softfp system
Jul 18 22:04:52 <ShadowJK> chroot should be fine
Jul 18 22:15:06 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> hmm can i savely format my emmc to ext3?
Jul 18 22:28:06 <ShadowJK> No
Jul 18 22:28:45 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> meh, stupid fat
Jul 18 22:29:21 <ShadowJK> Seriously, the emmc is so "slow", anything beyond storing mp3s and movies, you want to get a fast microsd, like the Samsung Pro MicroSDHC
Jul 18 22:29:51 <ShadowJK> But also, maemo init scripts assume fat, and some apps break when permissions start working
Jul 18 22:29:57 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> ah k
Jul 18 22:30:19 <ShadowJK> in cssu, ext4 microsd is automounted too
Jul 18 22:34:57 <TheOnlyJoey|desk> ah it works on the other kernel!
Jul 18 22:38:40 <ShadowJK> Well, cssu is more than kernel upgrade
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 19 03:00:00 2014