**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 21 03:00:00 2014 Jul 21 04:43:02 Tekk_, modrana has voice directions Jul 21 07:09:01 Tekk_: I think marble has voice direction (doesnt it ?) Jul 21 07:09:29 I don't think so Jul 21 07:09:33 isn't it just kde's marble? Jul 21 07:13:35 Tekk_: dunno, there is lots of "guidance" .ogg in share/ though Jul 21 07:14:33 hm Jul 21 07:14:47 well I'm up to like 5 map apps downloaded at this point so I think one of them should work :P Jul 21 07:15:35 :D Jul 21 08:14:07 marble even recorded voices for fremantle Jul 21 08:17:07 I'd be way more interested in any of them opening with POI set to the address I just clicked in contacts Jul 21 08:17:09 Tekk_: and Ovi Maps :P Jul 21 08:17:27 Blaizzen & others on TMO did it.. wfm Jul 21 08:17:28 Sicelo: ovi maps doesn't work for me Jul 21 08:17:34 doesn't seem to anyway Jul 21 08:17:40 ah, yes. sorry Jul 21 08:17:47 it stayed on the splash screen for over 10 minutes before I killed it :P Jul 21 08:17:58 plus it doesn't do voice navigation (at least according to the wiki) Jul 21 08:18:10 not without a hack Jul 21 08:18:49 the hack works very well. Ovi Maps is the *only* maps I use (having tried the others) Jul 21 08:19:22 Tekk_: i wonder if something else is not also broken on your device :p Jul 21 08:19:32 Sicelo: could be Jul 21 08:19:37 but I don't see breakage with anything else Jul 21 08:25:56 I think ovi maps server is dead, or zombie, or whatever Jul 21 08:26:25 hmm, but Tekk_'s problem is on-device, i think Jul 21 08:26:33 yeah, it's definitely an on-device thing Jul 21 08:26:38 I think Jul 21 08:26:45 and I wonder how long nokia supl will continue to work (if it still does) Jul 21 08:26:59 you think? Jul 21 08:27:21 my Ovi Maps is still working.. have just opened it now, and SUPL too Jul 21 08:27:24 I think maps takes ages until it starts because it needs to connect to server Jul 21 08:28:03 Tekk_: go offline, then try maps again Jul 21 08:28:33 the one thing which i *know* is broken is the location of the maps files .. what happened is the dns name changed, and Ovi Maps still looks for Maps in old place. Jul 21 08:29:05 however, if the users doesn't have maps on device already, Ovi Maps *should* open, but be blank Jul 21 08:29:12 which would sufficiently explan why ,aps is failing Jul 21 08:29:16 offline as in offline mode? Jul 21 08:29:29 would've thought that disables gps Jul 21 08:29:34 or just turn off the internet connection? Jul 21 08:29:40 if that's the reason, he can easily try this: Jul 21 08:30:16 get a windows machine, install the latest ovi suite/whatever name.. that should give him maps Jul 21 08:30:33 that's how i updated mine recently Jul 21 08:30:49 right, offline it shows a warning, an eula (on first start) then goes completely blank and bogus Jul 21 08:31:45 (( would've thought that disables gps)) huh? Jul 21 08:32:00 offline mode. I thought it would disable all radios Jul 21 08:32:10 GPS is no active RF technology. The device doesn't send to the sats ;-P Jul 21 08:32:25 okay, well... Jul 21 08:32:27 tried to start it Jul 21 08:32:33 been loading for about 3 minutes now.. Jul 21 08:32:46 in offline mode? Jul 21 08:32:51 yeah Jul 21 08:33:03 that's terribly odd Jul 21 08:33:06 uhm...offline mode as in "airplane mode" should also disable radio receivers? Jul 21 08:33:16 huh? Jul 21 08:33:18 why? Jul 21 08:33:19 yes? Jul 21 08:33:25 oh Jul 21 08:33:28 * Tekk_ misread Veggen Jul 21 08:33:34 DocScrutinizer: No reason except regulations? Jul 21 08:33:40 I wouldn't rule that out tbh Jul 21 08:33:48 never heard of such regulations Jul 21 08:34:53 I think I've heard that line on all my flights up to recently. "Any device containing transmitters or receivers has to be turned off throughout the whole journey" Jul 21 08:36:12 that's bogus nonsense even when they tell that Jul 21 08:36:50 I agree, but it's always been that way, and that's the reason flight mode will also turn off receivers...right? Jul 21 08:37:02 often they told "all electronic devices..." Jul 21 08:37:18 Doc: sure, but that's during takeoff and landing ;) Jul 21 08:37:22 I don't think so Jul 21 08:38:28 anyway, I never checked, always thought it's a RF-TX killswitch, and nowadays it becomes obsolete since airlines start to even allow WLAN and often even GSM on board now Jul 21 08:38:39 yah Jul 21 08:41:06 wow! indeed gps works in offline :P Jul 21 08:41:18 i also assumed it didn't Jul 21 08:42:39 in the "old days" when portable electronics been rather exotic (pre-walkman) the airplanes were vulnerable to certain RF interference and first such devices (I seem to recall a diskman incident) sometimes had nasty EMI radiation that forbid using them in airplanes. Nowadays when electronic devices are ubiquitous, airplanes are hardened, and their problem nowadays is malware getting injected to flight computer via WLAN ;-P Jul 21 08:43:20 the definition of "receiver" is fuzzy enough anyway Jul 21 08:43:50 btw you know that even pacemakers may contain receivers? Jul 21 08:44:06 go shut down your pacemaker during start and landing please! ;-P Jul 21 08:49:04 and right, download of map data doesn't work at all Jul 21 08:50:18 so maps is completely useless now Jul 21 08:50:35 (unless you got complete map data cached already) Jul 21 08:52:54 ((nokia suite)) haha - "install windoze on your PC or you cannot use maps or even flash new firmware on your linux phone" - really a great catch by M$okia Jul 21 08:53:03 :D Jul 21 08:54:03 if the others were as easy to use however :( Jul 21 08:54:27 you know what I had done instead of buying my first N900 (or even N810) when they had that policy back when? Jul 21 08:54:30 also, if you consider bio-electronic devices Jul 21 08:54:38 then youd have to shut down a whole lot more :) Jul 21 08:54:46 DocScrutinizer05: bought an OM? Jul 21 08:55:06 for sure not. Think I had ~12 back when Jul 21 08:59:43 * Sicelo will re-read the wiki pages about GPS applications.. all i need is voice nav. & offline maps (which are relatively good for southern africa) Jul 21 09:15:28 offline-nav with voice, I guess Jul 21 11:26:18 moin :) Jul 21 12:58:09 hi all, recently got an old n900, now i ask myself and the internet what ist the way to get the most up-to-date linux (preferably based on debian-wheezy) on my phone and still be able to use it as a phone ... Jul 21 12:59:27 I'd say don't bother, just put the cssu maemo there and if you want debian, run it with easydebian in chroot or something Jul 21 12:59:31 sounds like a hidden XY-problem. Why do you need most up-to-date linux, to start with? Jul 21 13:00:12 joga: are there any easydebian builds for wheezy? Jul 21 13:00:24 we need to know what's X, I.E. what you want to do so you think you need most recent linux to achieve that Jul 21 13:00:44 zipR4ND, dunno, see here http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian#Debian_.22wheezy.22_images Jul 21 13:01:01 thxx joga Jul 21 13:01:31 (note that if you do put easydebian and the image, it's a fairly long and unstable process, ie. you cannot do anything with the phone while it extracts the image and it may crash when writing to the card Jul 21 13:01:44 I just want up to date security packages, and luksFS and i want to be able to install just any app i would want to install on my desktop Jul 21 13:01:47 but it may just work if you leave it alone for a couple of hours Jul 21 13:02:06 well you can just forget about most of that Jul 21 13:02:25 (unless of course your desktop is Arm also) Jul 21 13:02:42 see Jul 21 13:02:45 ~cssu Jul 21 13:02:45 it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Jul 21 13:02:59 my hunch is that maemo, with all its flaws, is the only usable (as a phone) OS for the phone Jul 21 13:03:13 joga: i see Jul 21 13:03:18 what flaws? Jul 21 13:03:42 well mostly UI unfriendliness and "linuxy" "features" that make it quite unenjoyable for a "normal" person Jul 21 13:03:55 errr Jul 21 13:04:14 while I personally like it ok after using it for years, but try giving it to a random iphone user and they're lost Jul 21 13:04:19 (and so am I with an iphone) Jul 21 13:04:29 and you think this will get better when you install e.g. gnome or kde on that tiny screen? Jul 21 13:04:35 certainly not Jul 21 13:04:46 what I said was that it's the best there is Jul 21 13:05:17 for sure Jul 21 13:05:33 I actually wanted to run wireshark on it and, well, it did work but the UI is pretty cramped with such a tiny screen Jul 21 13:05:45 and it's sufficiently up to date as well, for all that really matters, when you use cssu Jul 21 13:05:47 full of gtk widgets and stuff Jul 21 13:07:08 and for running genuine PC linux apps, there's still easydeb Jul 21 13:07:09 zipR4ND, i recently installed a wheezy chroot using a specific image, let me find it for you Jul 21 13:07:36 TheOnlyJoey|desk: thxx Jul 21 13:08:02 while generally you want to adapt and compile your app for fremantle/hildon Jul 21 13:08:14 zipR4ND, i used http://qole.org/files/debian_wheezy3sulu_armhf.img.lzma but you have to use the kernel-power kernel to get it working, since that supports hf Jul 21 13:08:41 unless it's a cmdline binary which usually just need compiling on scratchbox and off you go Jul 21 13:08:49 DocScrutinizer is there a nice tutorial on how to setup a dev environment for the hildon desktop? and thxx very much TheOnlyJoey|desk Jul 21 13:09:13 there is Jul 21 13:09:55 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation Jul 21 13:10:49 or simply get Jul 21 13:10:50 ~sb Jul 21 13:10:51 scratchbox is probably a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB Jul 21 13:10:53 VM Jul 21 13:12:19 if you really want native SB (not VM), here you are: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation Jul 21 13:17:51 zipR4ND: NB you're not supposed to build on device. You build on PC for target platform Jul 21 13:18:00 i know ... Jul 21 13:18:38 then get merlin's VM image and profit :-) Jul 21 13:19:27 (It's not actually "merlin's", it's just the original one) Jul 21 13:19:54 where do i get merlins vm :) Jul 21 13:20:05 ~sb Jul 21 13:20:06 extra, extra, read all about it, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB Jul 21 13:21:03 ~tabletsdev Jul 21 13:21:04 it has been said that tabletsdev is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev , http://tabletsdev.maemo.org (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site http://www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/, or http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/93.81.63.203/repositories/skeiron.org/skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads Jul 21 13:21:40 cool, thanx for all the information Jul 21 13:25:18 lol, Mrs MONGOLISCHIMEL has to discuss a project with me. Gotta love some of them spams, really Jul 21 13:25:55 lol Jul 21 13:26:12 at least the spam is localized :) Jul 21 13:27:16 Mrs MONGOLIS CHIMEL - SIC! and signature is concatenated Jul 21 13:28:57 I read somewhere that some of those were malformed/badly translated on purpose, as it's only those with low education etc that actually fell for them anyways, so they wanted to weed out those that for example knows how to spell. Jul 21 13:29:24 hehe Jul 21 13:29:51 yeah, won't help however for those who have their fun with spammers Jul 21 13:30:15 it's a quite popular "sport" already Jul 21 13:30:37 pick some spammer and drive him mad Jul 21 13:31:20 feed them their own medicine Jul 21 13:31:25 relevant: http://www.419eater.com/ Jul 21 13:39:37 .win 44 Jul 21 13:39:40 augh Jul 21 13:40:18 kerio: thanks! :-) Jul 21 14:10:03 DocScrutinizer05: Earlier you mentioned not building on the n900 itself, why not? Jul 21 14:10:27 too slow Jul 21 14:10:36 Oh, but other than that, no bad issues? Jul 21 14:10:52 well, you can't use your device for a week Jul 21 14:11:16 Heh, I build on mine for everything, but then again, most of the programs I build are small and not that intensive Jul 21 14:11:25 and odds are you're wearing out the swap Jul 21 14:11:44 hmm Jul 21 14:12:34 remember that you got some max 100MB free for the compiler Jul 21 14:12:50 possibly less Jul 21 14:13:04 and swap is slooooow Jul 21 14:14:27 dead slow Jul 21 14:15:48 Heh Jul 21 14:16:36 maybe you can compile ddate in a easydeb or other chroot (you'll run into trouble trying to install all the libs in real root fs which also is only 245MB total) Jul 21 14:16:58 for anything larger than that I'd not even bother Jul 21 14:17:25 cmd: ddate Jul 21 14:17:27 cmd: Today is Boomtime, the 56th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3180 Jul 21 14:17:57 See the part about wearing out swap definately had me concerned. Wasn't it you who said way back when that I shouldnt be concerned about wearing out the hardwear, that the writes available were a ton and whatnot? Jul 21 14:18:51 yes, that's true for all *normal* usecases, but for sure not for running a gcc swapping like hell for a week (literally) Jul 21 14:19:21 Oh, see the stuff i do compiles in under an hour =) Jul 21 14:19:24 Ok, no worries then =) Jul 21 14:19:33 yeah, no worries with that Jul 21 14:19:54 what the hell would u try to compile on it that would take a week? Jul 21 14:19:58 hey hey, I am trying to uninstall kernel-power and I do steps described here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Uninstalling_kernel-power, Jul 21 14:20:08 I did apt-get install --reinstall -y kernel kernel-flasher okay Jul 21 14:20:20 heh, why would u try to uninstall it norayr? Jul 21 14:20:23 but the apt-get remove -y kernel-power kernel-power-modules wants to uninstall 700 packages. Jul 21 14:20:33 because I need uboot-pr13 Jul 21 14:20:42 which does not work with kernel-power, right? Jul 21 14:20:51 I need to boot into nemo. Jul 21 14:21:02 No idea. WHy not just flash? I don't think u can easily uninstall it Jul 21 14:21:09 good idea to buy an n9 and put sailfish on it? Jul 21 14:21:12 if you're uninstalling 700 packages, then you probably have cssu-thumb installed Jul 21 14:21:24 do you? Jul 21 14:21:52 minute Jul 21 14:22:07 anyway, you don't need to uninstall kernel power Jul 21 14:22:24 hmmmm, okay Jul 21 14:22:42 do you have cssu-thumb installed? Jul 21 14:22:45 but I cannot have uboot otherwise. Jul 21 14:22:52 no I don't have it Jul 21 14:23:00 iirc u-boot-flasher installs just fine Jul 21 14:23:05 it'll just overwrite the flashed kernel Jul 21 14:23:33 let me try... Jul 21 14:23:49 and then you just install kernel-power-bootimg Jul 21 14:24:25 installing u-boot-flasher. I was installing uboot-pr13 before. Jul 21 14:24:41 yeah, uboot-pr13 is not the supported version afaik Jul 21 14:25:25 what's the name of that app that you can ask google via voice? Jul 21 14:25:28 i have already removed kernel-power and kernel-power-modules Jul 21 14:25:46 should i install them back or install kernel-power-bootimg makes it? Jul 21 14:25:53 never remove kernels Jul 21 14:25:56 yes it makes it Jul 21 14:26:04 i think the bootimg will bring back the modules at least Jul 21 14:26:38 and i will have u-boot after it? i hope so. Jul 21 14:26:45 sure Jul 21 14:26:53 because my usb is broken, and I have asked someone to change the battery for me. Jul 21 14:27:00 ...your usb is broken Jul 21 14:27:02 and you're playing with kernels Jul 21 14:27:08 :-o Jul 21 14:27:11 * kerio wants nothing to do with this shit Jul 21 14:27:21 and I want to use nemo in order to copy all the data from /home etc Jul 21 14:27:29 yeah, extremely risky business Jul 21 14:27:39 and then erase smth in home and give it to someone to try to fix it. Jul 21 14:27:47 (: Jul 21 14:27:49 to be fair, after the install it's going to be a bit sturdier Jul 21 14:28:00 norayr: i hope you're aware that maemo can copy files and then delete everything Jul 21 14:28:09 I'd install BM Jul 21 14:28:21 i really don't know why you think you need a different OS Jul 21 14:28:25 such a shitty one, too Jul 21 14:28:31 exactly Jul 21 14:28:49 there's like a megaton of ways to save /home Jul 21 14:28:50 if you want to do heavy duty maintenance you probably want rescueOS Jul 21 14:28:58 but that's for stuff like repartitioning Jul 21 14:29:24 and it's fairly awful to use without usb networking Jul 21 14:30:11 yeah, sure. just I thought it's better to use that because /home contents gets changed at runtime. so some files might be corrupted, like abook.db etc. Jul 21 14:30:30 fair enough Jul 21 14:30:35 but meh Jul 21 14:30:58 it's close to pulling the battery out, to be honest Jul 21 14:31:01 okay, anyway, I'll copy it under maemo, it's indeed better. thank you. Jul 21 14:31:07 and i hope stuff is resilient enough Jul 21 14:31:15 norayr: fix your flashed stuff tho Jul 21 14:33:06 yep Jul 21 14:33:08 (: Jul 21 14:36:43 do a proper standard backup, which will save all files that might be "open" during maemo mounted home Jul 21 14:37:06 abook.db for sure Jul 21 14:37:38 save the backup to card, not to phone Jul 21 14:38:25 then use cp -ar ~user /media/card/mybackup Jul 21 14:38:42 okay. Jul 21 14:38:47 doing it, thank you. Jul 21 14:39:07 * Snafu777 is sad. His USB port is good, but the SD card drive is all busted up Jul 21 14:39:17 Oh well, usb is more useful than sd... Jul 21 14:39:19 o.O Jul 21 14:39:28 that's my second n900's usb port already. Jul 21 14:39:49 i've heard about someone who have managed to fix one n900's usb. Jul 21 14:39:55 hope he can do it. Jul 21 14:39:55 Heh, i've been lucky, i'm on my 2nd or third n900 and i've never had a usb port issue Jul 21 14:40:09 * DocScrutinizer05 neither Jul 21 14:40:12 and I have read about it and always were so careful. Jul 21 14:40:27 I think maybe people are just violent with it Jul 21 14:40:29 * DocScrutinizer05 pulls out USB plug by fingernails Jul 21 14:40:45 I treat my n900 with the respect due a WWII vet Jul 21 14:41:21 business idea: sell USB puller tool Jul 21 14:41:29 hah Jul 21 15:37:36 aaah, saera been the name. And it works not the way I thought, but maybe even better than that Jul 21 15:37:47 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84753 Jul 21 15:37:56 usb puller tool? just file the prongs off the cable. Jul 21 15:38:07 meh! Jul 21 15:38:27 this is wrong in so many ways Jul 21 15:41:20 * kerio has no exposed fingernails Jul 21 15:45:13 * drathir wonder in what way android serve boot images by usb connection its software emulate dvd/usb hdd drive? Jul 21 15:50:20 (fingernails) and what's maybe more important factor for no USB fatalities: never grab the USB plug on the wide sides Jul 21 15:52:21 you can also pull it out without using (non-existent) fingernails, by simply grabbing the small sides with your winger tips and then pressing and rolling the fingertips against the case body Jul 21 15:53:35 I always pull my USB plugs this way on N900. It's btw the only way that needs no second hand holding the device Jul 21 15:54:45 left hand thumb and index finger "squeezing out" the USB plug Jul 21 15:56:22 as soon as you need a second (right) hand you're prone to doing harm to the USB by applying levering force to the plug Jul 21 16:06:46 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4 Jul 21 16:07:59 ~unplug-usb is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4 Jul 21 16:08:00 DocScrutinizer05: okay Jul 21 16:11:40 never hold the USB plug by "key-grip" (between tip of thumb and 2nd joint of index finger), it may already break from holding it that way, you don't even need to try and pull it out for it to break Jul 21 16:20:21 To: calamity@maemo . org I really wonder where the heck those fools get their spam adresses Jul 21 16:22:08 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if there are mail addresses to forward spam to, so they can get files as spam by some central service Jul 21 16:22:27 s/files/filed/ Jul 21 16:22:47 you also have the d->s bug in your keyboard, eh? Jul 21 16:23:05 yeah Jul 21 16:23:11 among others Jul 21 16:24:48 I think my keys all have some heissenberg fuzziness in them Jul 21 16:25:11 you have a s -> ss bug there Jul 21 16:25:30 your keys are quantum-scale? must be a really tiny device ;) Jul 21 16:25:37 hehe Jul 21 16:26:40 i bet it's a neo900 prototype Jul 21 16:26:53 in a superposition of existing and not existing Jul 21 16:28:10 kerio: how do you like my video? Jul 21 16:28:19 link? Jul 21 16:28:28 ~usb-unplug Jul 21 16:28:40 ~unplug-usb Jul 21 16:28:41 rumour has it, unplug-usb is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4 Jul 21 16:41:11 that's how i naturally unplug it... Jul 21 16:41:33 problem is, the more likely reason for failure is the device dropping from the table while charging Jul 21 16:43:56 probably wrong channel, but can somebody suggest a mobile device with a more ergonomic keyboard that still fits in a pocket? like a psion 5 maybe, but a bit more modern Jul 21 16:46:58 DocScrutinizer05: make that a webm pls Jul 21 16:47:52 nvm i'll do it Jul 21 16:53:45 DocScrutinizer05: https://acehack.de/~kerio/20140721_002.webm Jul 21 17:03:15 r00t|home: sorry, no idea Jul 21 17:03:29 kerio: doesn't play in VLC, unlike the .mp4 Jul 21 17:04:47 but it plays in firefox Jul 21 17:05:04 also it plays in vlc here Jul 21 17:05:18 VIDEO: [VP80] 848x480 0bpp 29.895 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) Jul 21 17:05:18 Selected audio codec: [ffvorbis] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg Vorbis) Jul 21 17:06:14 the resolution seems a bit excessive given the subject... btw, did you shoot that with a second n900? ;) Jul 21 17:06:47 and that was the day #maemo realized that doc ran debian lenny and had an ancient version of VLC Jul 21 17:20:17 :) Jul 21 17:31:10 pah Jul 21 17:31:33 r00t|home: sure. Even with the first ;-) Jul 21 17:32:40 VLC 2.1.5 whatever that means for the plugins Jul 21 17:33:08 and you meanwhile should know that I don't use apt or FF on my PC Jul 21 17:36:13 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/21/plasma-desktopwR1814.png Jul 21 17:37:48 nfc what's a webm btw Jul 21 17:42:09 google-sponsored royalty-free container Jul 21 17:42:17 (audio/video container I mean) Jul 21 17:42:30 as if we need a dozen more Jul 21 17:43:25 I'd rather have chosen mkv for html5 but meh, they didnt make that choice Jul 21 17:47:38 mh, isn't mkv a bit too heavy for stuff like web videos? Jul 21 17:48:03 realistically, you won't need 2 video streams and 7 audio streams with 14 subtitles Jul 21 17:49:10 kerio: why not? Jul 21 17:50:04 people in my country like having the video in their language Jul 21 17:50:40 kerio: Where are you from? Jul 21 17:51:57 kerio: I guess Spadolini is an Italian name... Jul 21 17:53:04 kerio: In Finland where I live we have 3 languages used in tv programmes. Jul 21 17:53:12 1) dubs ruin art Jul 21 17:53:28 2) embedding every language in a single file means that you have to download all audio streams regardless Jul 21 17:53:38 which is suboptimal, for something that's supposed to be "web video" Jul 21 17:53:53 kerio: Sports events are always commented in 2 languages, finnish and swedish. Jul 21 17:55:01 kerio: So how do you watch content shown on tv using the web service? Jul 21 17:55:16 no clue Jul 21 17:55:19 .o0(flash) Jul 21 17:55:20 kerio: They are now including subs. Jul 21 17:55:38 either a separate audio stream, but then you have sync issues Jul 21 17:55:42 or two different video streams Jul 21 17:55:54 but then you can't freely switch between languages Jul 21 17:56:04 kerio: Do you live in a monolingual country? Jul 21 17:56:27 i do Jul 21 17:56:45 but i don't see how that's relevant in a discussion about the efficiency of a media container designed for web browsers Jul 21 17:57:01 This discussion is quite interesting because these issues are quite meaningful in multilingual countrise. Jul 21 17:58:14 kerio: I can understand that. What I'm telling you is that a media container that cannot handle multiple languages in both audio and subs is useless in multilingual countries. Jul 21 17:59:18 Of course you can go the imho idiot's way like in Belgium: different tv channels for different language audiences and that's it. Jul 21 17:59:50 But, imho that is just dead stupid. Jul 21 18:00:09 if efficiency is an issue you simply can't send all the audio streams together in a single bundle Jul 21 18:01:11 kerio: The real question is whether technical efficiency is more important than language support. Jul 21 18:01:13 sure, we need more efficiency. We get LTE now, and octocores in mobile equipment. We damn sure better create something efficient now ;-P Jul 21 18:01:51 8 cores, 2 of which are used by the modem chip Jul 21 18:01:56 .o0(sports game with different commentators) Jul 21 18:02:26 kerio: The answer is really simple: language support is far more important. Jul 21 18:02:56 Humpelstilzchen: What's so odd about that? :O Jul 21 18:03:51 yeah Jul 21 18:03:54 it's kinda neat Jul 21 18:05:01 Humpelstilzchen: The logic is simple: we have a language minority a part of which really do not understand Finnish. Jul 21 18:05:37 Humpelstilzchen: It is relatively cheap to have an extra commentator speaking Swedish. Jul 21 18:06:08 And it is far more simple than negotiating with the swedes about co-operation :D Jul 21 18:37:17 kerio: that's the only unencombered container to my knowledge Jul 21 18:37:24 (more open than webm btw) Jul 21 18:38:55 oh, and ... they dont use webm for live tv anyway Jul 21 18:39:22 (they use hls, dash, smooth, or hds ... which are all encombered and/or proprietary at some point) Jul 21 18:53:32 is there a fully-open video streaming solution? Jul 21 18:59:00 kerio, multiple Jul 21 18:59:33 kerio, i think you mean something for twitch and such? Jul 21 18:59:47 no, i mean Jul 21 18:59:54 codecs and transport Jul 21 19:00:15 can theora be streamed? Jul 21 19:00:26 well, everything can be streamed technically Jul 21 19:00:29 is rtmp an open standard? Jul 21 19:00:33 but theora gets used for streaming quite a lot Jul 21 19:06:15 rtmp is not Jul 21 19:06:32 adobe released a partial spec and drafts Jul 21 19:06:45 dash is mpeg2 stuff Jul 21 19:07:03 I mean MPEG consortium Jul 21 19:07:15 hls is mpeg-ts based Jul 21 19:07:21 hds and smooth are proprietary Jul 21 19:07:57 the best you can do is stream theoray/mkv stuff over http :p Jul 21 19:17:45 no, not everything can get streamed Jul 21 19:18:09 some formats are braindead and have important info at end of file Jul 21 19:20:46 indeed :) Jul 21 22:40:26 freemangordon: giff fennec Jul 21 22:40:37 (if it's still a thing) Jul 21 22:43:19 also, holy shit Jul 21 22:43:27 hterm works flawlessly in fennec 17 Jul 21 22:43:41 https://acehack.de/hterm/ Jul 22 00:37:57 anyone use modrana? Jul 22 00:38:03 chainsawbike: ? Jul 22 00:38:18 I can't figure out how to actually make my route the active route Jul 22 00:38:52 I have my point of interest set, I go into route, I choose Here to POI, choose the address, but the route isn't marked as active Jul 22 01:39:11 hi from hellas. Jul 22 01:39:44 trying to download sdk. but scratchbox repo is so so slow.... Jul 22 01:49:16 chomwitt: running it on debian squeeze? Jul 22 01:49:25 on ubuntu 14.04 Jul 22 01:49:45 I don't think that'll work? I'm not totally sure Jul 22 01:49:50 but I remember having issues running it on wheezy Jul 22 01:50:02 because of dependencies and stuff maybe Jul 22 01:50:17 actually it sounds like yu have it working though Jul 22 01:50:22 so nevermind me :) Jul 22 01:50:42 nop.. now i',m trying it Jul 22 01:50:43 :-) Jul 22 01:53:44 ubuntu has scratchbox2 in its repos. Jul 22 01:53:59 i wonder if i should install that instead Jul 22 01:55:57 I'm just guessing that's a different thing Jul 22 01:56:02 ok Jul 22 01:56:04 seems really weird for ubuntu to have that in the repos Jul 22 01:56:05 * Tekk_ checks Jul 22 01:56:42 it's the same tool but it doesn't have the nokia cross env I think Jul 22 01:58:25 ok. so i will procedd following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_32-.2F64-bit_Debian.2FUbuntu-based_distributions Jul 22 02:09:39 DocScrutinizer05: Has python3 made it to the repos yet? Jul 22 02:15:03 Snafu777: why would you want to use python3? Jul 22 02:17:36 Is there an option in n900 email so when I send emails from n900 it saves to my sent folder ? Jul 22 02:32:53 found ascript that is made for python3 Jul 22 02:32:57 want to use it =) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 22 03:00:01 2014