**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 19 02:59:59 2014
Nov 19 05:05:54 <Oksana> Is Clarivue screen protector good on N900?
Nov 19 06:48:02 <Vajb> no idea, but i guess any screen protector is better than none
Nov 19 06:49:26 <Vajb> useretail: it won't start or how it doesn't help?
Nov 19 08:04:08 <sixwheeledbeast> gerkin75: updates will not show immediately they can take upto 24 hours.
Nov 19 08:38:03 <Vajb> is it possible to get some sound or vibration from irssi when someone mentions my nick?
Nov 19 08:38:37 <Humpelstilzchen> Vajb: you could write a perl plugin
Nov 19 08:44:43 <Vajb> yes? I found some libnotify script for irssi. It uses dbus
Nov 19 08:48:54 <Humpelstilzchen> Vajb: I have a basic perl script which catches a highlight and can run a command...
Nov 19 08:53:50 <Vajb> i c. Sadly my skills on scripting r below zero
Nov 19 08:55:17 <Vajb> and just to make sure. We are speaking about n900 irssi?
Nov 19 09:03:30 <bencoh> Vajb: is irssi running on your phone or ssh ?
Nov 19 09:07:52 <Vajb> on phone
Nov 19 09:08:22 <zGrr> moin :)
Nov 19 09:09:35 <Vajb> hi zGrr
Nov 19 09:18:13 <bencoh> I think we have no perl support in irssi in maemo
Nov 19 09:31:25 <Humpelstilzchen> thats would be bad
Nov 19 09:42:29 <Vajb> bencoh: we have now. It's announced on maemo.org, but i'm not sure if it's on repo's.
Nov 19 09:43:42 <bencoh> doesnt seem to be there
Nov 19 09:43:52 <bencoh> well, according to deps
Nov 19 10:05:47 <Vajb> well u can install it via link on maemo.org just search for irssi 0.8.17
Nov 19 10:45:36 <Sicelo> yes, i didnt' package for repos
Nov 19 10:45:42 <Sicelo> i will get going on that
Nov 19 13:02:27 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Nov 19 13:13:40 <Shapeshifter> hey fellas
Nov 19 13:14:50 <Shapeshifter> Can someone tell me how the jolla compares to the N900 (apart from lack of keyboard etc.)? My N900 feels dated. I'm wondering if the Jolla is a viable successor...
Nov 19 13:16:11 <bencoh> well, it's a qualcomm with on-SoC modem
Nov 19 13:16:25 <bencoh> s/SoC/chip/
Nov 19 13:16:27 <infobot> bencoh meant: well, it's a qualcomm with on-chip modem
Nov 19 13:19:04 <Shapeshifter> bencoh: well I'm not too concerned about the modem. I mean more in terms of how it handles and feels to someone who likes to customize stuff to the max. E.g. desktop command execution widget
Nov 19 13:19:29 <Shapeshifter> Is the keyboard okay for ssh/term stuff (i.e. ctrl/alt/esc, braces etc.)?
Nov 19 13:19:32 <bencoh> oh, you'd need to talk to sailfish users then
Nov 19 13:19:46 <Shapeshifter> well I was looking basically for an opinion of former N900 users ;)
Nov 19 13:19:51 <bencoh> :)
Nov 19 13:20:19 <bencoh> some people are building a hwkbd for it
Nov 19 13:20:55 <Shapeshifter> yeah I saw it. looks pretty shitty compared to the n900 kb...
Nov 19 13:27:21 <ShadowJK> Basically, if you use the hwkeyboard on N900, you'll be infuriated by Jolla (and any other device without keyboard) :P
Nov 19 13:28:38 <ShadowJK> .. which is why I'm typing this on N900, but surfing web on Jolla
Nov 19 13:30:09 <bencoh> haha
Nov 19 13:32:42 <ShadowJK> The whole UI kinda gets to you though. After using Jolla, when faced with an android you'll be swiping and thinking the touchscreen broke before "Oh right, I have to press buttons. How old fashioned"
Nov 19 13:34:23 <jon_y> phones with wooden dials and knobs :)
Nov 19 13:34:39 <bencoh> I use wayv on the n900 for a few things (launcher, tasknav, go to home, lock, toggle fullscreen)
Nov 19 13:34:59 <bencoh> (global gestures, kindof)
Nov 19 13:35:26 <jon_y> what gestures?
Nov 19 13:35:31 <ShadowJK> I don't have the gesture problem on N900, ctrl-backspace sits in musclememory
Nov 19 13:35:37 <jon_y> draw something on a screen for something to pop up?
Nov 19 13:35:56 * jon_y draws an elder sign
Nov 19 13:37:51 <bencoh> jon_y: yup something like that
Nov 19 13:38:12 <bencoh> (starting from the bottom - in portrait, right side in landscape)
Nov 19 13:38:24 <jon_y> way to make my phone inaccessible to strangers :)
Nov 19 13:38:34 <bencoh> ?
Nov 19 13:38:57 <jon_y> well, if somebody picks up your phone without knowing gestures
Nov 19 13:39:06 <jon_y> and the UI is locked to using gestures...
Nov 19 13:39:12 <jon_y> yeah, fun project
Nov 19 13:39:20 <bencoh> I didnt nuke hildon-desktop/matchbox :)
Nov 19 13:39:28 <bencoh> you still can use it the old way
Nov 19 13:39:49 <bencoh> (I still do in some cases ... like ctrl-bksp in landscape)
Nov 19 13:41:29 <jon_y> I wonder if it is possible to send a vocoded signal over GSM
Nov 19 13:42:27 <jon_y> prescramble the captured voice bands before it leaves the phone
Nov 19 13:42:45 <jon_y> the other side would need to use a decoder as well
Nov 19 13:43:38 <bencoh> doable in PA I guess
Nov 19 13:43:40 <jon_y> the initial call setup would probably include a pubkey exchange
Nov 19 13:43:46 <bencoh> not sure you want to play with that though
Nov 19 13:43:53 <bencoh> especially after going through -voice
Nov 19 13:43:58 <jon_y> modem sounding stuff after starting :)
Nov 19 13:44:15 <jon_y> well yes, everything needs to fit in the voice band
Nov 19 13:44:26 <jon_y> which is why vocoder is important
Nov 19 13:44:30 <bencoh> it's trickier than just voice band
Nov 19 13:44:32 <jon_y> to slice out stuff
Nov 19 13:44:46 <jon_y> to reserve bandwidth for other stuff
Nov 19 13:45:18 <jon_y> quality would sound terrible but if you are paranoid, you don't need it :)
Nov 19 13:45:56 <jon_y> 3 band is probably hard to listen to
Nov 19 14:11:30 <Shapeshifter> ShadowJK: does the jolla "feel slow" in any way?
Nov 19 14:12:25 <Shapeshifter> ShadowJK: also, I'm not sure about the hw keyboard anymore. I tried out dad's iphone a couple of times and the keyboard seems fine (unless doing terminal stuff, hence the question)
Nov 19 14:12:52 <Shapeshifter> but I dunno. I'm just kinda bored with the N900. Maybe I just need to wipe it and start over
Nov 19 14:16:35 <zGrr> I am bored with n900 too. Problem is that there is nothing capapble of replacing it.
Nov 19 14:16:56 <zGrr> Besides, it has too little RAM.
Nov 19 14:17:15 <bencoh> neo900 maybe :)
Nov 19 14:17:20 <stryngs> build bash for it zGrr =)
Nov 19 14:17:56 <stryngs> Wanna see scary =)?
Nov 19 14:17:56 <stryngs> Nokia-N900:~/sources/bash# gpg --verify bash43-002.sig
Nov 19 14:17:56 <stryngs> gpg: Signature made Tue Mar 25 2014 09:47:41 PM EDT using DSA key ID 64EA74AB
Nov 19 14:17:56 <stryngs> gpg: Good signature from "Chet Ramey <chet@cwru.edu>"
Nov 19 14:17:56 <stryngs> gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
Nov 19 14:17:58 <stryngs> gpg:          There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
Nov 19 14:18:01 <stryngs> Primary key fingerprint: 7C01 35FB 088A AF6C 66C6  50B9 BB58 69F0 64EA 74AB
Nov 19 14:18:03 <stryngs> That's scary
Nov 19 14:18:46 <zGrr> I don't care. Tcsh is good enought anyway.
Nov 19 14:19:19 <jon_y> tcsh?
Nov 19 14:19:33 <jon_y> TCSH is terrible, like CSH
Nov 19 14:19:40 <jon_y> all the quirks
Nov 19 14:20:27 <zGrr> Maybe.
Nov 19 14:20:34 <zGrr> I just got used to it.
Nov 19 14:20:44 <jon_y> I hate all the TCSH scripts I have to maintain
Nov 19 14:21:00 <jon_y> I purge them and replace them with shitty perl equivalents
Nov 19 14:21:01 <zGrr> I am working on too many systems without bash.
Nov 19 14:21:33 <jon_y> just use perl, being write-only is infinitely better than quirky inconsistent syntax
Nov 19 14:22:01 <zGrr> i prefer awk to be honest.
Nov 19 14:22:29 <jon_y> awk cannot communicate via memory maps :|
Nov 19 14:22:48 <jon_y> well, I'm trying to learn python but never get the chance
Nov 19 14:23:04 <jon_y> really though, my preferred language is plain C
Nov 19 14:23:08 <zGrr> ... and some awk implementations do not have same awk extensions.
Nov 19 14:23:12 <zGrr> well.
Nov 19 14:23:18 <jon_y> and then Java for anything more complicated 
Nov 19 14:23:31 <zGrr> You wouldn't believe how weird some systems can be.
Nov 19 14:23:44 <jon_y> C++ feels like the unwanted middle child
Nov 19 14:24:02 <jon_y> zGrr: yeah, I did baremetal embedded some time ago
Nov 19 14:24:19 <jon_y> some DSPs are bullshit to use
Nov 19 14:24:35 <bencoh> plain C <3
Nov 19 14:24:37 <zGrr> The system i mostly work on doesn't even use ascii and porting even simple programs can bi a nightmare. 
Nov 19 14:25:09 <jon_y> zGrr: how about cross compiling?
Nov 19 14:25:25 <jon_y> or making the compiler emit EBDIC
Nov 19 14:25:47 <jon_y> welp, look at the time
Nov 19 14:25:53 * jon_y runs off to sleep
Nov 19 14:31:08 <zGrr> It's not EBCDIC that is a problem, but dependencies.
Nov 19 15:08:20 * stryngs wonders why there is no patched bash for maemo yet
Nov 19 15:09:26 <teotwaki> really
Nov 19 15:09:43 <stryngs> ?
Nov 19 15:10:54 <Veggen> uhm. there's probably not that many N900s with remote acess around :)
Nov 19 15:10:58 <teotwaki> you're really wondering why an OS that has been left to die for the better part of the past 5 years is not seeing security hotfixes?
Nov 19 15:11:10 <stryngs> It saddens the shit out of me teotwaki 
Nov 19 15:11:11 <Veggen> (if you're thinking shellshock)
Nov 19 15:11:39 <stryngs> What's the point of cssu if ya'll dont update stuff
Nov 19 15:13:03 <bencoh> we do get updates for a few things
Nov 19 15:13:16 <bencoh> bash sec issues arent a real issue for maemo, that's all
Nov 19 15:13:27 <stryngs> not that u see, they could be =)
Nov 19 15:13:29 <bencoh> it's not default shell
Nov 19 15:13:39 <stryngs> Still, it's an issue and should be addressed
Nov 19 15:13:46 <bencoh> and I hope you're not running a bashscript CGI server on your phone
Nov 19 15:13:49 <stryngs> It's bad thought process not to address such underlying things
Nov 19 15:13:51 <bencoh> and ... it takes time :)
Nov 19 15:13:53 <bencoh> sure
Nov 19 15:14:07 <stryngs> compiling the patched version right now to see if i have all dependencies in place =)
Nov 19 15:14:26 <stryngs> i've been waiting, hoping someone would release, but they havent, so today i decided to move forward =)
Nov 19 15:15:08 <stryngs> plus it will be nice to move from GNU bash, version 3.2.33(2)-release (arm-unknown-linux-gnu)
Nov 19 15:15:11 <stryngs> Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
Nov 19 15:15:14 <stryngs> to 4.3 =)
Nov 19 15:19:49 <bencoh> dont we have bash4 somewhere in repo ?
Nov 19 15:19:56 <bencoh> oh and btw ... bash isnt in cssu afaik
Nov 19 15:20:00 <bencoh> it's in extras
Nov 19 15:25:41 * stryngs cracks the whip on his processor
Nov 19 15:25:50 <stryngs> faster bash!  compiled quicker damn u!
Nov 19 19:45:27 <stryngs> =)
Nov 19 19:45:31 <stryngs> dpkg -i bash_4.3-patch-30_armel.deb
Nov 19 19:45:31 <stryngs> (Reading database ... 57278 files and directories currently installed.)
Nov 19 19:45:31 <stryngs> Preparing to replace bash 4.3-patch-30 (using bash_4.3-patch-30_armel.deb) ...
Nov 19 19:45:32 <stryngs> Unpacking replacement bash ...
Nov 19 19:45:33 <stryngs> Setting up bash (4.3-patch-30) ...
Nov 19 19:45:36 <stryngs> =)
Nov 19 19:58:26 <stryngs> Nokia-N900:~# bash
Nov 19 19:58:26 <stryngs> Nokia-N900:~# env X='() { :; }; echo "CVE-2014-6271 vulnerable"' bash -c id
Nov 19 19:58:26 <stryngs> uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root),20(dialout),29(audio),44(video),670(pulse-access)
Nov 19 19:58:29 <stryngs> =)
Nov 19 19:58:33 <stryngs> I am hax0r proof
Nov 19 20:04:29 <ecc3g> # bash
Nov 19 20:04:31 <ecc3g> bash: Command not found.
Nov 19 20:04:36 <ecc3g> I am hax0r proof.
Nov 19 20:09:54 <stryngs> heh
Nov 19 20:10:19 <ecc3g> :)
Nov 19 20:11:27 <stryngs> It's still nice being patched ecc3g 
Nov 19 20:11:48 <ecc3g> if you're using it, sure...
Nov 19 20:12:13 <stryngs> which dhcp client does maemo use by default..?
Nov 19 20:14:10 <sec> udhcpc
Nov 19 20:14:40 <sec> A very very very very old one
Nov 19 20:14:44 <sec> 0.9.8cvs20050303-2osso7
Nov 19 20:15:54 <stryngs> hmm
Nov 19 20:16:47 <ecc3g> I do find it somewhat funny.  I get tons of updates for pierogi...
Nov 19 20:17:34 <sec> Yeah the guy who made it is pretty active on tmo too
Nov 19 20:18:02 <ecc3g> ... but no updates for bash...  heh
Nov 19 20:18:24 <ecc3g> need more devs i guess.
Nov 19 20:19:27 <sec> Does anyone have a link to that image with scratchbox loaded and configured?
Nov 19 20:20:08 <sec> I am assuming that's what I need for compiling packages?
Nov 19 20:21:26 <ecc3g> ~maemosdk
Nov 19 20:21:27 <infobot> it has been said that maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
Nov 19 20:21:38 <ecc3g> hmm was worth a shot.
Nov 19 20:22:37 <ecc3g> http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ ?
Nov 19 20:23:29 <ecc3g> need to put this on a torrent somewhere...
Nov 19 20:23:47 * stryngs builds natievly =)
Nov 19 20:23:56 <stryngs> natively rather
Nov 19 20:24:35 <ecc3g> yeah that would make it easier to build packages... though I'd rather be compiling with my i7 :\
Nov 19 20:25:08 <stryngs> true, but scratchbox seems like a pain
Nov 19 20:25:12 <stryngs> hence i build natively =)
Nov 19 20:25:46 <ecc3g> so far I only got splitvt built ... it indeed is a pain...
Nov 19 20:26:29 <stryngs> Depends: aria2 (= 1.18.8), bash (= 4.3-patch-30), bind9 (= 9.8.8b2), bison (= 3.0.2), cmake (= 2.8.4), crunch (= 3.6), curl (= 7.37.1), ettercap (= 0.8.1), evilap (= 1.0), exiftool (= 9.72), exploitdb (= 1.0), ferret (= 1.2.0), flex (= 2.5.39), grimwepa (= 1.0), gzip-n900 (= 1.6), hydra (= 7.4.2), hydrafy (= 2.4), ip-fwd-gui (= 1.0), isc-dhcp-server (= 4.3.0), jhead (= 2.97), libdnet (= 1.11), libnl1 (= 1.1.4), lorcon (= 2.0), ngrep (= 1.45), nikto (=
Nov 19 20:26:36 <stryngs> All my custom packages =)
Nov 19 20:27:14 <ecc3g> was trying to build pidgin with a small patch to save a little power, but never got it to build correctly... grr.
Nov 19 20:28:43 <stryngs> yeah, i have issues native building too
Nov 19 20:28:49 <stryngs> its why u see some of the progs listed above
Nov 19 20:28:53 <stryngs> the apt-get ones suck
Nov 19 20:29:12 <ecc3g> it's the library dependencies that I would hope exist on the phone too...
Nov 19 20:29:25 <stryngs> Yep, that is a pain in my left cheek
Nov 19 20:30:08 <ecc3g> having it exist in scratchbox is one thing, then need it on the phone too.  ideally the one on the phone matches the one in scratchbox.
Nov 19 20:30:20 <stryngs> Nope, i wish i did though
Nov 19 20:30:28 <stryngs> its why i hack up debs
Nov 19 20:31:40 <stryngs> grab source; cd source; ./configure --prefix=/usr && make && make install DESTDIR=~/deb; cd deb && mkdir DEBIAN && cd DEBIAN && touch control (make control file); cd ~; dpkg-deb -b deb .
Nov 19 20:31:48 <stryngs> boom, deb built natively =)
Nov 19 20:33:54 <sec> I'd build natively, but I am assuming dependencies will be a pain
Nov 19 20:34:11 <stryngs> depends on what yer building sec
Nov 19 20:34:55 <ecc3g> probably native build is easier on dependencies than cross building, because you'll know right away when they're not met...
Nov 19 20:35:10 <stryngs>  ^^^
Nov 19 20:35:22 <stryngs> thats also another reason i dont like the scratchbox idea
Nov 19 20:35:29 <stryngs> i wish the fricking build tools existed natively
Nov 19 20:35:31 <ecc3g> well... almost right away... if it crashes 10 hours down the road...
Nov 19 20:35:38 <stryngs> its why i have to chop my debs up
Nov 19 20:35:47 <stryngs> id prefer to build a .deb the debian way
Nov 19 20:35:54 <stryngs> but alas, impossible on n900 natively
Nov 19 20:36:07 <ecc3g> I remember the time I tried to build centericq (centerim) natively on my DECstation 3100
Nov 19 20:36:14 <sec> Why's that stryngs 
Nov 19 20:36:29 <stryngs> 15:34 < ecc3g> probably native build is easier on dependencies than cross building, because you'll know right away when they're not met...
Nov 19 20:36:36 <stryngs> thats why sec
Nov 19 20:36:47 <ecc3g> takes THREE DAYS to complete, and several times it bombed and had to restart
Nov 19 20:36:58 <ecc3g> only takes 10 mins to x-compile
Nov 19 20:37:00 <sec> No I mean stryngs > but alas, impossible on n900 natively
Nov 19 20:37:03 <stryngs> oh
Nov 19 20:37:11 <stryngs> the .debs are scratchbox only
Nov 19 20:37:17 <stryngs> as in they look for files under /scratchbox
Nov 19 20:37:24 <sec> Eh ok
Nov 19 20:37:26 <stryngs> u can grab them, and dpkg -i them
Nov 19 20:37:28 <stryngs> but.......
Nov 19 20:37:30 <stryngs> they fail =./
Nov 19 20:37:59 <ecc3g> Venture a guess why it takes 3 days to build centericq on the DECstation 3100...
Nov 19 20:38:19 <ecc3g> It's a mipsel box (netbsd)...
Nov 19 20:38:34 <stryngs> The little gerbil inside is probably elderly
Nov 19 20:38:34 <ecc3g> R2000 ...
Nov 19 20:38:43 <ecc3g> 16MHz...
Nov 19 20:38:54 <sec> lol
Nov 19 20:38:55 <stryngs> 3100 "PMAX" 	R2000, R2010, R2020 chipset[5] 	16.67 MHz (60 ns)[5] 	11 January 1989[6] 	?
Nov 19 20:38:56 <stryngs> 2100 "PMIN" 	R2000, R2010, R2020 chipset[5] 	12.50 MHz (80 ns)[7] 	11 July 1989
Nov 19 20:39:02 <stryngs> 16.67 damn u!
Nov 19 20:39:16 <ecc3g> 16MHz isn't actually the problem
Nov 19 20:39:23 <ecc3g> 24MB is the real problem
Nov 19 20:40:02 <ecc3g> centericq uses g++ and the poor machine was 30MB into swap to build
Nov 19 20:41:48 <ecc3g> You know, same problem trying to build firefox for a 384MB x86 PC... it will run it just fine, but building it, you really want that i7 with 4GB RAM...
Nov 19 20:43:25 <ecc3g> actually centericq was more like 90MB into swap... been a while.
Nov 19 20:43:35 <ecc3g> Not worth it :D
Nov 19 20:45:52 * stryngs cuddles his n900 
Nov 19 21:03:38 <Vajb> is it just me or are the repo's down?
Nov 19 21:03:59 <stryngs> they were up earlier, which repo
Nov 19 21:04:44 <sec> Up for me Vajb 
Nov 19 21:08:25 <bencoh> ecc3g: what kind of patch (pidgin/power) ?
Nov 19 21:15:59 <Vajb> all maemo repos...
Nov 19 21:17:18 <bencoh> doesnt look down to me
Nov 19 21:18:37 <Vajb> hmm lemme try from wlan...
Nov 19 21:23:11 <Vajb_> ok solved
Nov 19 21:23:40 <Vajb_> for some reason i had mms connection hanging
Nov 19 21:24:16 <Vajb_> it's been two days since i received mms. guess it's been hanging behind since that
Nov 19 21:24:57 <Vajb_> coz yesterday opera couldn't make connection, but i didn't bother to check it coz fennec was working
Nov 19 21:25:24 <Vajb_> but makes me wonder how come it screws up some programs but others just keep on working
Nov 19 21:25:39 <Vajb_> like yappari,irssi and facebookchat
Nov 19 21:29:08 <Sicelo> Vajb_: seems other programs look at a lower level than others. others rely more on what is specified in UI, but others just look at default route or some such
Nov 19 21:32:02 <Vajb_> i c
Nov 19 21:32:36 <Vajb_> that extra connection wasn't visible to me unless clicking connections button
Nov 20 01:20:56 <Oksana> How difficult would it be for maemo to use something else instead of pulseaudio? alsa or something?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 20 02:59:58 2014