**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 26 02:59:59 2015
Apr 26 07:11:18 <sixwheeledbeast> There aren't many distros left...
Apr 26 07:11:49 <KotCzarny> you can create your own
Apr 26 07:11:57 <KotCzarny> suited for your needs
Apr 26 07:12:16 <sixwheeledbeast> Berkeley?
Apr 26 07:12:29 <KotCzarny> could be
Apr 26 07:12:35 <KotCzarny> as i said, depends on your needs
Apr 26 07:12:44 <KotCzarny> im happy with slack
Apr 26 07:12:45 <sixwheeledbeast> I was still thinking of the ones left.
Apr 26 07:13:27 <sixwheeledbeast> I would hope things can rebase on devuan
Apr 26 07:14:00 <KotCzarny> only time will tell
Apr 26 07:51:31 <kerio> just install openbsd :c
Apr 26 07:51:33 <kerio> it's pretty
Apr 26 07:54:01 <bencoh> sigh :)
Apr 26 08:15:58 <KotCzarny> can i run n900's scratchbox under openbsd?
Apr 26 08:20:53 * ryukafalz actually likes systemd
Apr 26 09:04:43 <sixwheeledbeast> ryukafalz: I have no beef with systemd as such, however, I believe it has become the polar opposite of Unix philosophy.
Apr 26 09:06:36 <sixwheeledbeast> Also personally I prefer upstart, so why should people have to leave a distro because of one meta-ball of a package.
Apr 26 09:08:23 <sixwheeledbeast> Do one thing and do it well?
Apr 26 09:12:33 <sixwheeledbeast> Choose portability over efficiency?
Apr 26 09:12:48 <KotCzarny> isnt sysvinit already portable?
Apr 26 09:13:19 <KotCzarny> my main concern is the dependency hell
Apr 26 09:13:42 <KotCzarny> and also what swb said, 'do one thing but do it perfect' is the unix base
Apr 26 09:14:07 <sixwheeledbeast> exactly
Apr 26 09:15:09 <KotCzarny> and we know what's the opposite of that
Apr 26 09:15:11 <KotCzarny> m$
Apr 26 09:15:22 <KotCzarny> and blackboxes
Apr 26 09:17:40 <kerio> and systemd
Apr 26 09:17:48 <kerio> which has grown so big that bugs are inevitable
Apr 26 09:17:49 <kerio> BUGS
Apr 26 09:17:54 <kerio> IN PID ZERO
Apr 26 09:18:01 <KotCzarny> pid one
Apr 26 09:19:52 <kerio> er yes
Apr 26 10:03:00 <sixwheeledbeast> My main concern with systemd is PID 1 and having to reboot on updates.
Apr 26 10:03:50 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 26 12:07:49 <sixwheeledbeast> oh well time to go down for a reboot, call for help if you don't here from me in ~30 minutes....
Apr 26 12:36:14 <KotCzarny> i guess swb lost to systemd
Apr 26 12:36:15 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 26 12:39:04 <sixwheeledbeast> KotCzarny: I am alive. Well sort of.
Apr 26 12:39:21 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 26 12:40:04 <sixwheeledbeast> I am now trying to fixed the things that have changed.
Apr 26 12:40:19 <KotCzarny> shouldnt it be done via package manager ?
Apr 26 12:40:30 <KotCzarny> whats the point otherwise
Apr 26 12:54:11 <sixwheeledbeast> well installing upstart-sysv for a start.
Apr 26 13:41:19 <sixwheeledbeast> KotCzarny: Well I have installed MATE now and stopped systemd from being PID 1 :)
Apr 26 13:58:28 <KotCzarny> swb: grats
Apr 26 13:58:53 <KotCzarny> and isnt it amazing, you removed it and it still boots?
Apr 26 13:58:57 <KotCzarny> unbelievable
Apr 26 14:03:11 <Vajb_> is it like removing one's heart and he is still going? :)
Apr 26 14:03:17 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 26 14:03:26 <KotCzarny> it is like removing b0rg implant
Apr 26 14:03:33 <KotCzarny> and going plain 
Apr 26 14:04:04 <Vajb_> uhoh jumping in the deep end without floaters
Apr 26 14:04:45 <KotCzarny> i wonder if what's happening with systemd is cryptosponsored by m$
Apr 26 14:04:48 <KotCzarny> or something
Apr 26 14:05:27 <Vajb_> no idea. Didn't even bother to check if crunchbang has it
Apr 26 14:05:59 <KotCzarny> kind of nokia case mole 'helping' to move in 'new' direction
Apr 26 14:06:15 <Vajb_> maybe elop has joined to systemd developers
Apr 26 14:06:46 <KotCzarny> i think elop isnt the only one
Apr 26 14:06:57 <Vajb> probably not
Apr 26 14:08:04 <sixwheeledbeast> KotCzarny: not removed, only not init. I was confident that it would be fine, it was designed that way to fallback to.
Apr 26 14:09:02 <KotCzarny> still, unremovable parts of the system are kind of scary
Apr 26 14:09:15 <KotCzarny> (that aren't essential before)
Apr 26 14:11:35 <sixwheeledbeast> 1 root 20 0 init :)
Apr 26 14:12:00 <KotCzarny> mind you, even glibc has an alternative 
Apr 26 14:14:25 <sixwheeledbeast> policykit1 depends on systemd, as I say as long as it's not init I am happy 
Apr 26 14:14:36 <KotCzarny> mine doesn't
Apr 26 14:14:47 <zGrr> moin :)
Apr 26 14:14:55 <KotCzarny> oink
Apr 26 14:15:29 <sixwheeledbeast> ciao
Apr 26 14:15:33 <zGrr> systemd is vicious conspiracy to destroy linux
Apr 26 14:16:08 <KotCzarny> zgrr, more like, tie it down 
Apr 26 14:16:30 <KotCzarny> next step, they will integrate it into kernel
Apr 26 14:16:38 <KotCzarny> and put kernel into firmware 
Apr 26 14:17:12 <zGrr> they'll get rid of the kernel and replace it with their own.
Apr 26 14:18:11 <KotCzarny> thats another way
Apr 26 14:18:59 <KotCzarny> still, taking pc from user is the current direction
Apr 26 14:19:21 <zGrr> at that time there will be PC no more
Apr 26 14:19:28 <KotCzarny> blackboxes
Apr 26 14:19:32 <KotCzarny> blackboxes everywhere
Apr 26 14:19:34 <zGrr> whatever.
Apr 26 14:19:39 <zGrr> proprietary.
Apr 26 14:19:49 <KotCzarny> thats why i dislike arm
Apr 26 14:19:58 <zGrr> open systems, that are just as open as soviet union.
Apr 26 14:20:03 <KotCzarny> even if its superior in design to x86
Apr 26 14:20:12 <zGrr> this is far worse than arm.
Apr 26 14:20:34 <zGrr> have you seen recent intel based tablets?
Apr 26 14:20:44 <zGrr> they are great
Apr 26 14:20:58 <zGrr> except that you cannot do anything with them.
Apr 26 14:21:20 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 26 14:21:25 <zGrr> no way to put proper linux on it despite hardware being fully supported.
Apr 26 14:21:34 <KotCzarny> ..yet
Apr 26 14:21:43 <KotCzarny> but yes, blackboxes
Apr 26 14:21:49 <KotCzarny> you can only click
Apr 26 14:21:52 <KotCzarny> not tweak
Apr 26 14:26:07 <zGrr> I was hoping for chinese CPUs, but they seemd to stalled
Apr 26 14:32:52 <Sicelo> why is it not possible zGrr?
Apr 26 14:34:12 <zGrr> Sicelo:  because of UEFI
Apr 26 14:34:25 <Sicelo> oh noes :(
Apr 26 14:35:19 <Sicelo> btw, has someone tried putting in proper linux on the Jolla? 
Apr 26 14:36:13 <bencoh> I think you'll have gfx issues
Apr 26 14:36:27 <bencoh> havent tried though (I dont have one anyway)
Apr 26 15:40:03 <panjgoori> its been very very long time that i have visited IRC
Apr 26 15:42:31 <KotCzarny> IRC happens
Apr 26 15:47:46 <KotCzarny> http://i.imgur.com/pkXXp.png
Apr 26 15:47:50 <KotCzarny> sweet
Apr 26 15:48:14 <KotCzarny> RFC 1149.5-compliant
Apr 26 17:29:11 <KotCzarny> http://i.imgur.com/dYBHApq.jpg
Apr 26 17:29:31 <KotCzarny> remember 12/99
Apr 26 17:30:01 <zGrr> put proper linux on jolla? not that easy
Apr 26 17:30:49 <zGrr> actually, I meant putting proper linux on Tesco Hudl2 tablet.
Apr 26 17:31:05 <KotCzarny> nonbrands are even worse
Apr 26 17:31:13 <KotCzarny> as fewer people have/hack at them
Apr 26 17:31:47 <zGrr> Tesco Hudl2 is great low-cost tablet that runs on Atom.
Apr 26 17:32:09 <KotCzarny> if it has worry-free rescue, hack it
Apr 26 17:32:56 <zGrr> there are some problems with it relating to Hudl's UEFI implementation.
Apr 26 17:34:02 <zGrr> we'll see how open jolla's tablet is going to be.
Apr 26 17:34:35 <KotCzarny> i would bet on neo900 more
Apr 26 17:34:44 <zGrr> yes
Apr 26 17:34:58 <zGrr> still two more months to wait for the jolla tablet.
Apr 26 17:43:37 <zGrr> KotCzarny:  it is hard to bet on anything. 
Apr 26 17:44:01 <KotCzarny> i has n900
Apr 26 17:44:27 <KotCzarny> and until it breakes into pieces, im not changing it
Apr 26 17:46:42 <zGrr> n900 is still my primary mobile phone.
Apr 26 17:47:17 <KotCzarny> same
Apr 26 17:47:48 <zGrr> The only (sort of) modern handheld, I know of is OQO. Unfortunately it has obscene price.
Apr 26 17:48:07 <KotCzarny> and because of oscp n900 got a one level better
Apr 26 17:48:44 <KotCzarny> it's really nice to be able to control music from the bed via phone
Apr 26 17:49:02 <KotCzarny> no need for laptop, getting up or anything
Apr 26 17:49:39 <KotCzarny> i have 10watt 200mhz machine with 160gb harddrive tuckered near stereo system
Apr 26 17:49:58 <KotCzarny> quiet, tiny, lowpower
Apr 26 17:50:43 <zGrr> Last year i bought low power PC - pentium 500 mmx, 256mb ram, 4gb ssd. *NEW* and still being produced.
Apr 26 17:50:58 <KotCzarny> that one is neoware ca5
Apr 26 17:51:20 <KotCzarny> 128mb of ram is PLENTY
Apr 26 17:53:10 <kerio> wut
Apr 26 17:53:28 <KotCzarny> that is, if you dont use x
Apr 26 17:53:41 <kerio> is a pentium 500 mmx a pentium 1
Apr 26 17:53:51 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 26 17:54:15 <KotCzarny> there was a pentium without mmx
Apr 26 17:54:24 <KotCzarny> i think it maxed at 266 or 300
Apr 26 17:54:30 <zGrr> actually it is what was called cyrix in old days.
Apr 26 17:54:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 26 17:54:54 <KotCzarny> mine has sis cpu
Apr 26 17:55:01 <KotCzarny> slow as hell
Apr 26 17:55:03 <kerio> i really doubt that a pentium mmx is low power
Apr 26 17:55:03 <zGrr> it is still manufactured under a name of AMD Geode LX.
Apr 26 17:55:12 <KotCzarny> but plays all music formats without a glitch
Apr 26 17:56:02 <zGrr> they have improved litographic process + added crypto coprocessor.
Apr 26 17:56:13 <KotCzarny> zgrr, try my oscp on it
Apr 26 17:56:24 <KotCzarny> i have a compile for pentium mmx class 
Apr 26 17:56:56 <zGrr> the 500mhz cpu is consuming 0.9W 
Apr 26 17:57:28 <KotCzarny> zgrr, cpu is one thing, i said whole box eats 10W
Apr 26 17:57:29 <zGrr> it does not require a fan and not even radiator.
Apr 26 17:57:31 <KotCzarny> peaks at 12
Apr 26 17:57:55 <zGrr> http://pcengines.ch
Apr 26 17:58:32 <KotCzarny> http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/neoware/CA5/
Apr 26 17:58:35 <KotCzarny> this one is mine
Apr 26 17:58:52 <kerio> https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
Apr 26 17:59:27 <zGrr> poisoned apples? :)
Apr 26 17:59:54 <KotCzarny> and what would you do with it?
Apr 26 18:00:00 <KotCzarny> watch redtube?
Apr 26 18:00:12 <zGrr> run pfsense on it.
Apr 26 18:00:42 * KotCzarny laughs at 'acoustic level under load'
Apr 26 18:00:59 <KotCzarny> kerio, no fans
Apr 26 18:01:08 <KotCzarny> fans make noise
Apr 26 18:01:22 <KotCzarny> such machine is unsuitable as a music player
Apr 26 21:12:26 <Sicelo> kerio: that mac pro definitely has some serious specs. wow
Apr 26 21:12:44 <kerio> it's a powerful trashcan, yeah
Apr 26 21:15:55 <kerio> apple makes decent hardware, really
Apr 26 21:52:57 <bencoh> kerio: neverending troll ;p
Apr 26 21:53:08 <kerio> no seriously :c
Apr 26 21:53:17 <bencoh> :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 27 02:59:59 2015