**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 03 02:59:58 2015
Aug 03 06:20:24 <Hxor> hello
Aug 03 06:21:11 <svetlana> Hi.
Aug 03 06:21:28 <Hxor> thank you.
Aug 03 06:22:39 <svetlana> I am new here but ...yeah, it's not quite dead here today.
Aug 03 06:23:03 <kerio> it's pretty dead, overall
Aug 03 06:23:24 <Hxor> more people in here than most chans
Aug 03 06:24:58 <svetlana> There is a channel which is ten times larger than this one. But yeah, among the maemo ones it's pretty big.
Aug 03 06:28:04 <Hxor> ahh cool 
Aug 03 06:31:32 <Hxor> does anyone know if its possible to download etherape on n900
Aug 03 06:50:14 <Oksana> Hxor: It's not in maemo repositories. You could download it from Debian repositories, though; a package built for armel. Somewhere around https://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome/etherape  , since maemo already has bonobo 2.22 packaged, and libc6 2.5 .
Aug 03 06:50:15 <KotCzarny> hxor, yes. wget is available
Aug 03 09:06:28 <Sicelo> how do i switch off the LEDs? 
Aug 03 09:07:01 <Sicelo> they were switched on by USB-mode (blue), and even though i'm back on peripheral mode, still blue. i don't want to restart
Aug 03 09:08:58 <KotCzarny> i think you can control leds via /sys/ somewhere
Aug 03 09:09:00 <KotCzarny> ~leds
Aug 03 09:09:04 <KotCzarny> ~led
Aug 03 09:09:04 <infobot> hmm... led is (Light Emitting Diode) A piece of electronics that emits light when a current is passed through it. It does not work the same way as a light bulb so it does not have the problem of burning out. It also only emits a few frequencies of light so it is a specific color.
Aug 03 09:09:46 <KotCzarny> https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED
Aug 03 09:20:01 <Sicelo> looks like mce is involved .. not sure how
Aug 03 09:29:44 <KotCzarny> doc: can infobot do searches in wiki titles?
Aug 03 11:05:38 <sixwheeledbeast> KotCzarny:  I believe so
Aug 03 11:05:51 <sixwheeledbeast> ~wiki LED
Aug 03 11:05:55 <infobot> At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Redirect|LED}} {{Use mdy dates|date=March 2013}} {{Infobox electronic component |name = Light-emitting diode |image = File:RBG-LED.jpg |image_size = |caption = Blue, pure green, and red LEDs in 5 mm diffused cases |type = Passive, optoelectronic |working_principle = Electroluminescence |invented = Oleg Losev (1927){{cite news | ...
Aug 03 11:06:00 <KotCzarny> cool trick
Aug 03 11:06:12 <KotCzarny> is there one for maemo wiki?
Aug 03 11:06:19 <sixwheeledbeast> nope
Aug 03 11:06:24 <KotCzarny> can we have one?
Aug 03 11:06:33 <svetlana> :)
Aug 03 11:06:51 <KotCzarny> ~google maemo led
Aug 03 11:06:55 <KotCzarny> um
Aug 03 11:07:04 <sixwheeledbeast> maemo's mediawiki is old and would need a lot of work to upgrade I was told.
Aug 03 11:07:25 <svetlana> I hope the work involved is only porting the theme over. Right?
Aug 03 11:07:41 <KotCzarny> swb: i think infobot uses custom code anyway, i even offer writing one if i know which language it runs
Aug 03 11:08:21 <KotCzarny> svetlana: i believe mediawiki is a bit more than just a theme
Aug 03 11:08:41 <svetlana> I was hoping it is reasonably backwards compatible but ok, ok, I see.
Aug 03 11:09:03 <sixwheeledbeast> I am not sure, I believe new useful mediawiki modules cannot be used on our old wiki 
Aug 03 11:09:11 <sixwheeledbeast> infobot is perl
Aug 03 11:09:27 <sixwheeledbeast> IIRC
Aug 03 11:09:28 <KotCzarny> swb: who is the owner? doc?
Aug 03 11:09:38 <sixwheeledbeast> owner of wiki?
Aug 03 11:09:41 <KotCzarny> bot
Aug 03 11:10:29 <sixwheeledbeast> :shrug: it's open source I believed, and sits on a server somewhere watching the channel.
Aug 03 11:10:50 <sixwheeledbeast> ~w infobot
Aug 03 11:10:50 * infobot hold her/his/its fingers/phalanges/appendages in the form of a "w" and says "\/\/hatever infobot"
Aug 03 11:10:57 <sixwheeledbeast> ~wiki infobot
Aug 03 11:11:00 <infobot> At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infobot (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox software | name = Infobot | logo = | screenshot = | caption = | collapsible = | author = Kevin Lenzo | developer = | released = 1995 | latest release version = 1.5.3 | latest release date = {{release date and age|2008|08|01}} | latest preview version = | latest preview date = | frequently updated = | programming language = Perl | operating system = Unix-like | plat
Aug 03 11:11:35 <svetlana> ~source
Aug 03 11:11:35 <infobot> To build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file.  Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source.  The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`.
Aug 03 11:11:40 <svetlana> augh
Aug 03 11:12:09 <svetlana> She is a guest from the Debian world :)
Aug 03 11:12:34 <KotCzarny> nah, it just 'learns' from the channels
Aug 03 11:12:57 <KotCzarny> ~she
Aug 03 11:12:57 <infobot> from memory, she is not
Aug 03 11:13:44 <sixwheeledbeast> learns from people on the channel telling it to remember factiods.
Aug 03 11:13:52 <sixwheeledbeast> ~he
Aug 03 11:13:52 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, he is on random worlds
Aug 03 11:13:58 <KotCzarny> ~sixwheeledbeast
Aug 03 11:14:10 <sixwheeledbeast> hm
Aug 03 11:14:36 <sixwheeledbeast> ~fmg
Aug 03 11:14:36 <infobot> fmg is, like, the greatest
Aug 03 11:14:59 <KotCzarny> infobot: sixwheeledbeast is https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast
Aug 03 11:14:59 <infobot> KotCzarny: okay
Aug 03 11:15:03 <KotCzarny> ~sixwheeledbeast
Aug 03 11:15:03 <infobot> from memory, sixwheeledbeast is https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast
Aug 03 11:15:07 <KotCzarny> :)
Aug 03 11:15:25 <sixwheeledbeast> :nod:
Aug 03 11:15:31 <sixwheeledbeast> ~beasttweaks
Aug 03 11:15:31 <infobot> hmm... beasttweaks is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts
Aug 03 11:15:37 <sixwheeledbeast> ;)
Aug 03 11:15:42 <KotCzarny> add it to your wiki page
Aug 03 11:16:00 <KotCzarny> ie. describe it a bit
Aug 03 11:16:18 <KotCzarny> though not neccessary that much
Aug 03 11:16:57 <KotCzarny> also, they are more hacks than scripts
Aug 03 11:17:24 <sixwheeledbeast> I hardly get time for anything Maemo any more... I spotted your question and answered. This is my lunch break
Aug 03 11:17:37 <KotCzarny> no worries
Aug 03 11:17:59 <sixwheeledbeast> I agree, it started as scripts and turned into my hacks page
Aug 03 11:30:02 <stick_> ~flashing
Aug 03 11:30:02 <infobot> [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh
Aug 03 13:20:43 <kerio> web sysadmins: the "StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CA" you're shipping in the cert chain for https://maemo.org/ is the wrong one
Aug 03 13:21:13 <kerio> you should be using the SHA256 one from startcom
Aug 03 13:23:38 <warfare> kerio: Whoops, thanks. 
Aug 03 13:24:55 <kerio> i think that chrome will still not complain
Aug 03 13:24:59 <kerio> but, yknow
Aug 03 13:25:35 <warfare> Eh, better safe than sorry. I'll fix it tonight, I'm still missing the right SSH keys on the work laptop. 
Aug 03 19:56:16 * Luke-Jr kicks N900 for randomly rebooting suddenly :|
Aug 03 20:06:56 <bencoh> poor thing
Aug 03 20:07:25 <bencoh> Luke-Jr: heavy usbnet traffic?
Aug 03 20:08:25 <Luke-Jr> bencoh: just SSH :/
Aug 03 20:08:31 <Luke-Jr> it rebooted when I left it idle overnight
Aug 03 20:08:49 <Luke-Jr> although I did SIGSTOP dsme and maemo-launcher.. maybe that's related
Aug 03 20:09:09 <Luke-Jr> although the reboot this afternoon was normal Maemo runtime, during fsck of microsd
Aug 03 20:09:12 <Luke-Jr> s/fsck/mkfs/
Aug 03 20:09:12 <infobot> Luke-Jr meant: although the reboot this afternoon was normal Maemo runtime, during mkfs of microsd
Aug 03 20:09:50 <Luke-Jr> at least mkfs completed this time..
Aug 03 20:11:34 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm
Aug 03 20:11:51 <DocScrutinizer05> sigstop dsme might indeed not be a smart thing to do
Aug 03 20:11:59 <kerio> rofl
Aug 03 20:13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> and depending on the way it handles renaming the process, sigstop maemo-launcher might actually stop ~50% of processes on maemo (unless I mix launcher and loader here, the one telling the other what "binary" to exec() )
Aug 03 20:15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ever wondered why strace $random_maemo_app often fails massively? it simply invokes launcher which is symlinked to $random_maemo_app, which in turn sends a dbus msg to the siamese twin process that is already preloaded and simply does a exec($random_maemo_app.launch)
Aug 03 20:40:26 <Luke-Jr> DocScrutinizer05: well, I no longer care about the Maemo processes when I do this - I just SIGSTOP them so they stop spawning crap
Aug 03 21:09:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Luke-Jr: well, the result might well be a reboot
Aug 03 21:09:55 <DocScrutinizer05> dsme is the master watchdog process in maemo
Aug 03 21:10:49 <DocScrutinizer05> even a simple sigstop bme already suffices to reboot maemo after ~ 60s
Aug 03 21:12:20 <DocScrutinizer05> dsme, bme, and mce are quite important processes for the system
Aug 03 21:13:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and maemo-launcher is not really simple to even guess what might result from stopping all processes spawned/created by or through it
Aug 03 21:14:18 <Pali> dsme is kicking HW watchdogs
Aug 03 21:14:23 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Aug 03 21:14:46 <Pali> also controls temperature, battery status, charge status and overheating
Aug 03 21:14:53 <Pali> it should not be stopped
Aug 03 21:15:58 <Luke-Jr> hm, dsme disappeared when I SIGCONT'd it
Aug 03 21:16:45 <Luke-Jr> any way to restart it? :x
Aug 03 21:16:54 <Pali> stop dsme
Aug 03 21:16:57 <Pali> start dsme
Aug 03 21:17:15 <Pali> dsme is controlled by our init daemon (=upstart)
Aug 03 21:19:38 <Luke-Jr> Pali: btw, any reason fcam is not included in power kernel?
Aug 03 21:19:56 <Pali> is not fcam just application?
Aug 03 21:20:40 <Luke-Jr> no, it has a kernel patch too
Aug 03 21:21:05 <Pali> I do not know about those kernel patches
Aug 03 21:21:10 <Pali> but I'm not using fcam
Aug 03 21:21:19 <Pali> so I do not know about it
Aug 03 21:21:43 <Pali> and nobody sent me any fcam patches for review and including into kp
Aug 03 21:21:56 <Pali> so that means there were also no interrest from users
Aug 03 21:22:47 <Sicelo> ah .. and .. Pali, when you have a moment : USB Mode -- what causes the blue LED to 'refuse' to go out when you re-enable peripheral mode? i've tried switching it off via dbus, but it just comes back in less than 10 seconds
Aug 03 21:23:55 <Pali> aha... I have 3 unpushed commits in my usbmode git from year 2013
Aug 03 21:24:12 <Pali> Sicelo: if you are interested for testing, please drop me email
Aug 03 21:24:43 <Pali> maybe it will fix that problems... I do not remember... anyways now I'm going offline
Aug 03 21:24:57 <Sicelo> i'll mail :)
Aug 03 21:25:44 <Pali> I look at it tomorrow
Aug 03 21:25:45 <Pali> bye
Aug 03 21:27:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: LED is controlled by MCE pattern. 
Aug 03 21:27:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~phonecontrol
Aug 03 21:27:21 <infobot> somebody said phonecontrol was http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control
Aug 03 21:27:50 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Deactivate_LEDs
Aug 03 21:28:56 <DocScrutinizer05> replace PatternCommunicationIM by the name of the pattern (in /etc/mce/mce.ini) that got activated by USB mode
Aug 03 21:30:46 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/sbin/booston
Aug 03 21:32:25 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly see cleanup(){...} which gets executed by trap on all script exit (except sigkill)
Aug 03 21:33:39 <Sicelo> DocScrutinizer05: i used that very "deactivate" dbus call .. but it comes on again for some weird reason. something in usbmode
Aug 03 21:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> well, unless usbmode send a new dbus activate msg, I don't see how it could do that
Aug 03 21:34:29 <DocScrutinizer05> dbus-monitor should help
Aug 03 21:35:21 <Sicelo> nothing appears
Aug 03 21:35:38 <DocScrutinizer05> actually usbmode sending multiple activate commands would be massively buggy, they get accumulated afaik, means you need a deactivate command for each activate command that been sent
Aug 03 21:36:04 <Sicelo> dbus-monitor --system .. unless i should have monitored one of the other buses
Aug 03 21:36:39 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, systembus is correct
Aug 03 21:36:56 <Sicelo> there's definitely a bug .. someone else also mentioned it on tmo, and i think Pali is aware of it 
Aug 03 21:37:32 <DocScrutinizer05> when you can't deactivate it via dbus cmd, the bug would be either in your command or in mce
Aug 03 21:37:46 <Sicelo> prolly mce then 
Aug 03 21:37:50 <DocScrutinizer05> again, you need to use exactly the right pattern name
Aug 03 21:38:28 <DocScrutinizer05> worst case `stop mce; sleep 1; start mce`
Aug 03 21:38:39 <Sicelo> didn't help either :)
Aug 03 21:38:55 <DocScrutinizer05> I can't see how mce suddenly develops bugs it didn't ever show during last 5 years
Aug 03 21:39:26 <Sicelo> maybe the pattern is defined in a bad way?
Aug 03 21:39:34 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't matter
Aug 03 21:39:53 <DocScrutinizer05> mce doesn't care about the pattern definition
Aug 03 21:39:57 <Sicelo> then it's a crazy situation
Aug 03 21:40:20 <DocScrutinizer05> it simply sends the pattern to lp5523 chip and increments a counter
Aug 03 21:40:48 <DocScrutinizer05> then it refreshes the pattern in lp5523 every 10s or so
Aug 03 21:41:03 <DocScrutinizer05> or actually on every 'event'
Aug 03 21:42:06 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the name of the pattern?
Aug 03 21:42:13 <Sicelo> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1475026&postcount=233 someone else with exactly same issue
Aug 03 21:42:19 <Sicelo> PatternBoost
Aug 03 21:42:20 <DocScrutinizer05> irrelevant
Aug 03 21:42:59 <DocScrutinizer05> and did you try sending a dozen or more deactivate dbus msgs?
Aug 03 21:43:49 <Sicelo> i don't have an actual number of timesp but at least 4, yes
Aug 03 21:48:26 <DocScrutinizer05> and not even a reboot helps to stop the LED blinking?
Aug 03 21:50:00 <Sicelo> reboot helps. so far looks like the only working solution (which sucks)
Aug 03 21:51:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, mce does _not_ accumulate multiple activate-pattern calls. A single deactivate call stops the pattern
Aug 03 21:52:57 <DocScrutinizer05> so maybe it has another similar looking pattern on its stack that gets re-enabled when you deactivate the PatternBoost?
Aug 03 21:53:41 <Sicelo> who/what would set the pattern?
Aug 03 21:54:16 <DocScrutinizer05> how would I know? maybe a patternMessage or pattern_missedcall or whatever
Aug 03 21:54:53 <DocScrutinizer05> alas mce lacks a query what's the currently active pattern resp state of LED
Aug 03 21:56:02 <DocScrutinizer05> but actually maybe there's a typo or rather syntax error in the mce.ini file that causes mce to act funny. You might want to check that file
Aug 03 21:57:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think mce get severely tested for tolerant handling of syntax errors in mce.ini
Aug 03 21:59:00 <DocScrutinizer05> another approach would be to start dbus-monitor before you start usbmode first time. Filter for string "*activate", see who sends which LED pattern cmd when and how often
Aug 03 22:02:02 <Sicelo> will try that tomorrow
Aug 03 22:09:20 <DocScrutinizer05> btw I just notced that a "dbus-monitor --system&" does _not_ log the dbus-send command I use to (de)activate LED pattern
Aug 03 22:09:38 <DocScrutinizer05> quite weird
Aug 03 22:10:32 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe I forgot how to use that stuff correctly
Aug 03 22:10:42 <DocScrutinizer05> didn't touch it for 2 years or so
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 04 02:59:58 2015