**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 04 02:59:58 2015 Sep 04 04:31:34 * stryngs thinks we should re-do CSSU to NOT use optify.... To flop 30 and 2, and make the system MORE FHS like... Sep 04 04:35:44 Don't know. But anybody would make /home full, wil stellarium's seven star catalogues, several email accounts, and thumbnails from tens of thousands of photographs Sep 04 04:36:45 And moving it to MyDocs is not helping when MyDocs is being fsck-ed for the first five minutes after start-up Sep 04 04:37:38 Hmm, DocScrutinizer05: DO NOT install speedpatch, batterypatch, or auto-disconnect _ever_!! All three do not uninstall and do not work. AdBlock will slow down browser to a grinding halt. If you're concerned about your privacy, do not insert SIM before you read about cherry below! Sep 04 04:37:43 speedpatch doesnt do anything? Sep 04 04:40:24 I think I used neither of te three, and AdBlock is not something to be installed even on mighty desktop. And cherry existed too long ago to worry about it anymore? Sep 04 04:41:55 i have speedpatch installed Sep 04 04:42:05 kind of curious somewhat now, but shouldnt be hard to truly purge Sep 04 04:44:15 stryngs, use privoxy for adblocking Sep 04 04:44:47 doc: battery-eye is nice in a sense that it doesnt drain battery (only triggers on events like charger connect/disconnect, and screen unblank Sep 04 04:44:48 etc Sep 04 04:45:30 KotCzarny: I dont browse on the n900 Sep 04 04:45:32 KotCzarny: ever Sep 04 04:45:37 i do, occasionally Sep 04 04:45:42 i'm more curious of speedpatch though Sep 04 04:45:47 whether it does anything Sep 04 04:45:49 ~crappatch Sep 04 04:45:54 hmm Sep 04 04:45:57 !crappatch Sep 04 04:46:00 ~speedpatch Sep 04 04:46:03 bleh Sep 04 04:46:12 ~listkeys patch Sep 04 04:46:16 ~help Sep 04 04:46:24 infobot: ping Sep 04 04:46:25 Here is a better thing, why the fuck doesnt the community own maemo repo yet? Sep 04 04:46:31 i.e. If it sucks, purge it Sep 04 04:46:45 stryngs, extras is community repo Sep 04 04:46:57 demote it to devel Sep 04 04:47:07 yeah, but i'm saying as a whole Sep 04 04:47:12 maemo, everything Sep 04 04:47:17 Why doesnt the community host it Sep 04 04:47:35 afaik its cheaper/faster that way Sep 04 04:47:57 ? Sep 04 04:52:06 * stryngs debates on making a maemo acct... Sep 04 04:52:38 sorry. who hosts it right now? Sep 04 04:53:13 Would be great :-) Maemo account allows to upload packages to repositories, vote in elections, and such Sep 04 04:57:41 Wow Sep 04 04:57:47 So like the garage page is vuln as hell Sep 04 04:57:58 * stryngs knows it would be easy to pwn any user on it, so thats cool and all Sep 04 04:58:10 * stryngs is going to write a thread in a couple days Sep 04 04:58:15 Hopefully it will rally the troops Sep 04 04:58:20 :) Sep 04 04:58:28 Any type of connection Sep 04 04:58:34 Un *f'in* satisfactory Sep 04 04:58:36 wtf Sep 04 05:01:37 netname: IPHH-HILDON-SERVER-1 #442659 Sep 04 05:01:37 descr: Hildon Foundation Sep 04 05:03:04 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team Sep 04 05:03:39 stryngs: normally there is one 'official' repo which packages get uploaded to. any volunteer then can mirror it. i think it is hosted by volunteers now (with a funny 'foundation' name on it), not by nokia or jolla or microsoft. Sep 04 05:04:11 'hildon foundation' is just a term to group stuff under the hood for legal purposes such as owning a trademark Sep 04 05:04:30 someone correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not on the top of the stuff Sep 04 05:04:51 Well, ask techstaff . I do not know much. It's physically hosted in Germany? Sep 04 05:05:13 looks like Sep 04 05:05:35 svetlana: Yeah, but Sep 04 05:05:38 stryngs, contact the webmaster in the link i've posted Sep 04 05:05:49 More or less correct. MCeV already, though, instead of HiFo Sep 04 05:05:49 Sadly... This community, is "fragmented" Sep 04 05:05:56 There should be "one" image Sep 04 05:05:57 i dont know who is responsible for garage though Sep 04 05:06:01 and branches from there Sep 04 05:06:13 If CSSU is so good, then it should be standard and not an option Sep 04 05:06:17 merlin, maybe? Sep 04 05:06:33 I love maemo, I love my n900, but I hate some things about it... Sep 04 05:06:39 I would love to see this community pull together Sep 04 05:07:12 there is no such thing as 'community' when there is work to be done Sep 04 05:07:18 Problem is, you cannot pack CSSU as flashable image, because of closed-binaries legal problems? Sep 04 05:07:20 one has to address/find specific people Sep 04 05:08:11 I think it is a consequence of nokia doing "official" stuff and volunteers doing "cssu". not sure whether it should remain separate. it is probably a little bit of breakage in what cssu is (?) Sep 04 05:08:28 You can "do" anything u want to do Sep 04 05:08:30 yes, what Oksanaa said Sep 04 05:08:32 i.e. Sep 04 05:08:35 Linut mint Sep 04 05:08:37 Kali linux Sep 04 05:08:39 opensuse Sep 04 05:08:41 etc.. Sep 04 05:08:46 those do not have legal problems like what Oksanaa mentioned Sep 04 05:08:50 im still using stock 1.3.1 and it works Sep 04 05:09:17 with installed packages like kernel-power etc Sep 04 05:10:27 Nice... I use CSSU-Testing, but am wary of touching anything-power Sep 04 05:10:58 Right, but what I'm getting at Sep 04 05:11:01 I envision this: Sep 04 05:11:05 thing is, as long we are stuck on 2.6.28 and old glibc, there is little chance of upgrades Sep 04 05:11:13 n900-users.com (something like that) Sep 04 05:11:14 oksana, do uname -a Sep 04 05:11:16 ONE website Sep 04 05:11:19 ONE set of directions Sep 04 05:11:21 you are probably using kernel-power53 Sep 04 05:11:25 BRANCH ... from there Sep 04 05:11:37 stryngs, n900-users == maemo.org Sep 04 05:11:48 KotCzarny: Do u know someone from maemo.org? Sep 04 05:11:48 if you branch, you would just create another Sep 04 05:11:53 KotCzarny: Do they hang out in this chan? Sep 04 05:11:56 there is already my-maemo and few others Sep 04 05:11:57 yes Sep 04 05:12:00 xes, chemist Sep 04 05:12:06 xes_: PONG Sep 04 05:12:09 chem|st: PONG Sep 04 05:12:13 I never see em speak KotCzarny Sep 04 05:12:16 ever. Sep 04 05:12:16 merlin too Sep 04 05:12:21 they are busy, but alive Sep 04 05:12:24 merlin1991: PONG Sep 04 05:12:42 I get they are busy, but we should have a meeting Sep 04 05:12:48 Sometime within the next 2 weeks Sep 04 05:12:53 Everybody get together Sep 04 05:12:54 Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown Sep 04 05:12:56 Plot a path forward Sep 04 05:13:05 ~kp Sep 04 05:13:07 Do you know how much I would LOVE to contribute my .debs to the community? Sep 04 05:13:11 I have 106 of them as of tonight Sep 04 05:13:12 However Sep 04 05:13:13 drat, where is infobot when one needs it Sep 04 05:13:22 I don't believe in that stupid optify bullshit Sep 04 05:13:22 stryngs, extras-devel Sep 04 05:13:33 KotCzarny: My debs would fill yer / in a heartbeat Sep 04 05:13:43 and i dont use optify, just move things to /opt manually Sep 04 05:13:43 I do specific chroot bind mounts to avoid nonsense Sep 04 05:13:50 You shouldnt have to Sep 04 05:13:52 thats not FHS Sep 04 05:13:59 And thus, why we are fragmented and alone Sep 04 05:14:01 sure, if your / is big Sep 04 05:14:11 It's 256mb, just like yers Sep 04 05:14:14 otherwise you have to play tricks Sep 04 05:14:19 KotCzarny: No u dont! Sep 04 05:14:26 bind mounts are tricks Sep 04 05:14:34 KotCzarny: Well, it's late, and my wife wants some loving, so I must leave. U be on tomorrow? Sep 04 05:14:39 sure Sep 04 05:14:43 i'm on all the time Sep 04 05:14:44 KotCzarny: I would love to pick your brain, you seem like u give a damn Sep 04 05:14:59 KotCzarny: If you + others can get "truly" involved, for a 3 week period Sep 04 05:15:07 KotCzarny: Imagine what we the community, could accomplish... Sep 04 05:15:16 KotCzarny: Wouldnt it be cool to dpkg -i ANY deb? Sep 04 05:15:21 not worry about optifying nonsense Sep 04 05:15:22 etc.. Sep 04 05:15:44 i dont worry about optifying, for non-critical packages --prefix=/opt works well Sep 04 05:15:45 We just all have to center on ONE main tree, and branch out from there Sep 04 05:16:04 KotCzarny: Yes, but you cannot grab a kali armel deb and dpkg -i it without "tricks" as u say Sep 04 05:16:12 Those "tricks" they should be done in the beginning, not for every deb Sep 04 05:16:29 sure, but you still can recompile it without much hassle, which is recommended too anyway Sep 04 05:16:37 Can u do it on the box itself? Sep 04 05:16:40 Or must u scratchbvox Sep 04 05:16:46 If u cant do it on the box, its stupid! Sep 04 05:16:52 scratchbox should be a perk, not a must Sep 04 05:16:56 you can do it on the box Sep 04 05:17:02 Sure, you can do it on device. I am trying to... Sep 04 05:17:05 KotCzarny: I'll challenge u on that tonight Sep 04 05:17:07 but i like sb because its faster Sep 04 05:17:09 KotCzarny: I'll challenge u on that tomorrow Sep 04 05:17:26 KotCzarny: I'm going to throw a .deb at u to properly "debian style" recompile, on your n900 tomorrow Sep 04 05:17:28 6x3.3ghz > 1x600mhz Sep 04 05:17:42 KotCzarny: I'm not trying to "challenge" you either, I want to work "with you" Sep 04 05:17:48 KotCzarny: Please don't take me the wrong way Sep 04 05:17:54 no worries Sep 04 05:17:55 KotCzarny: I'm just stiff in my beliefs Sep 04 05:17:56 Xchat has some weird parts where it specifically wants scratchbox, not sure how to make it free of sb... Sep 04 05:18:04 Oksanaa: I can show u how Sep 04 05:18:17 Oksanaa: I have the red pill Sep 04 05:18:21 Oksanaa: I can free your mind Sep 04 05:18:34 Oksanaa: Anyways Sep 04 05:18:42 Oksanaa: Tomorrow if your avail lets, chat Sep 04 05:18:47 * stryngs waves and bows Sep 04 05:18:51 i dont like debs anyway, im slackware guy Sep 04 05:19:09 KotCzarny: I'm marking this spot in my chat, ill pick up on your slackware point, tomorrow. Sep 04 05:19:12 Night folks Sep 04 05:19:17 tar.gz should suffice Sep 04 05:19:23 c'ya Sep 04 07:40:13 lol stryngs. cssu shouldn't be forced down people's throats Sep 04 07:40:21 this isn't Windows 10 Sep 04 07:41:00 sicelo, i wouldnt agree, cssu if done fine and with good QA is something worth pushing Sep 04 07:41:04 even your normal distro allows you a lot of flexibility. btw, CSSU is *still* standard maemo, with many of the bugs fixed Sep 04 07:41:30 and its not forced in a way you are not forced to do apt-get upgrade Sep 04 07:41:47 for one, KotCzarny, there's no flashable image for CSSU. how can one force it then Sep 04 07:42:11 flashable image isnt forcing either Sep 04 07:42:20 just a convenience Sep 04 07:42:30 so we're saying same thing heh. Sep 04 07:43:08 even on windows you can opt out of automatic updates (at least on pre-win10) Sep 04 07:43:44 indeed, that's why i chose to say "Windows 10" above ;) Sep 04 07:43:59 right Sep 04 07:44:08 didnt see the '10' somehow Sep 04 07:44:47 * Sicelo is responding to stryngs "if cssu is so good, then it should be a standard and not an option" Sep 04 07:45:42 is cssu thorougly tested and tried? Sep 04 07:45:55 *thoroughly Sep 04 07:46:04 nope. Sep 04 07:46:22 bummer then Sep 04 07:47:05 the attempt is definitely made, and we all report bugs .. but you can't run away from the fact that user numbers are diminishing ... Sep 04 07:47:21 iirc there are still lots of devies doing updates though Sep 04 07:47:36 *devices Sep 04 07:48:06 is cssu-features package the same as cssu? Sep 04 07:49:02 afaik, no. cssu-features configures/enables some of the additions to stanrdard maemo, such as portrait mode. i might be wrong though. Sep 04 10:57:54 DocScrutinizer05: Yesterday I purged the BatteryGraph and whaddya know my little baby is still powered on. I was using it also last night for few hours so things are looking good now. Thank you again! Sep 04 10:58:28 Ras_Older: YW :-D Sep 04 10:58:48 battery graph, the app that shows battery draining Sep 04 10:58:57 s/shows/demonstrates/ Sep 04 11:06:57 ras: install battery-eye Sep 04 11:07:02 it does its thing right Sep 04 11:19:40 stryngs: pong Sep 04 11:29:14 I have some trouble registering at talk.maemo.org. I get the error message: "You have left a required field blank." Sep 04 11:33:47 chem|st: ^^^ Sep 04 11:34:37 ravelo: you got JS enabled? Sep 04 11:35:38 -> did not work in IE (sorry, I admit I use IE :) ) Sep 04 11:35:53 in opera it worked without problems Sep 04 12:14:32 ...and I thought the browser wars ended around year 2005 or somesuch Sep 04 12:19:49 DocScrutinizer05: ie edge is pretty good Sep 04 13:51:17 Ok, I'm responding to chatback right now, so if you say something to me, I won't respond to it just yet. On the concept of CSSU and being able to provide an image to folks; it can be done. It's how I do it with my own version of Maemo. It requires some work and creativity, but it allows for a complete "offline" installation for your n900; much like downloading any random linux ISO. One should not have to be "online" just to upgrade their n900. Sep 04 13:52:19 IMHO, Cssu shouldn't be done like it is; rather a meta-package; cssu_1.0_armel.deb. This meta package will include everything you need. I'm guessing it's somewhat done like that now, but "not" in the full debian style meta package sense. Sep 04 13:53:28 merlin1991: Hi, I'm reading chatback right now, so can't respond just yet; but I got your pong =) I'd really like to setup a community meeting online via IRC on an appointed day to discuss "Where we, the community" can go from here, and how to get those, who wish it, ALL on the same page; not the fragmeneted way things are done right now. Sep 04 13:53:53 ya'ay, done with scrollback Sep 04 13:54:59 So..... What are ya'lls thoughts on that? Creating one "standard" image, for those who wish to use it. Call is CSSU-ng or whatever... One simple .deb that provides a metapackage. Using preinst, postinst, prerm, postrm and the control file; there is nothing that cannot be accomplished. Sep 04 13:55:57 Also, for garage.maemo.org, I found a vulnerability; who does that get reported to....? Do they hang out in this chatroom? If not, why not, etc..? Sep 04 14:09:10 stryngs: techstaff@maemo.org Sep 04 14:09:49 Ah, hi there. Sep 04 14:09:56 That's who i Point to for the vuln? Sep 04 14:10:01 Yes :) Sep 04 14:10:13 Cool; I'll shoot my report here in a bit. Sep 04 14:10:19 That means that at least me & xes get the report. Sep 04 14:10:32 warfare: Oh, so you're one of "them" =)? Sep 04 14:10:42 Wait for a fix before going public? Sep 04 14:10:52 Ras_Older: I always do Sep 04 14:11:17 stryngs: yep. Sep 04 14:11:33 warfare: What are your toughts on bringing folks together for a "meet and greet and path plotting"?;2u Sep 04 14:12:08 stryngs: Maemo folks? I think this would work best at the usual hacker conferences. Sep 04 14:12:35 warfare: Right, but the majority of folks I understand, are European. Sep 04 14:12:40 warfare: I live in SC, usa. Sep 04 14:13:16 warfare: I'd like to come out with a "community approved" standard image for the n900. Maemo and CSSU based Sep 04 14:13:25 warfare: With some bind chroot tricks Sep 04 14:13:30 warfare: No more optify nonsense Sep 04 14:13:30 stryngs: I'm in northern germany, so for me the usual hacker conference is the CCC congress between christmas and new year ;) Sep 04 14:13:31 etc.. Sep 04 14:13:55 warfare: Wouldn't it be nice to simply dpkg -i ANY armel based deb for the n900 and NOT worry about filling /? Sep 04 14:14:40 stryngs: Sure, but then you want to talk to merlin1991 about that ;) I'm only doing server stuff. Sep 04 14:15:06 warfare: Copy that, now I'm finally learning names =) Sep 04 14:15:16 warfare: sending u vuln report nowq Sep 04 14:16:30 stryngs: Thanks :) Sep 04 14:17:16 the youtube link is interesting. Sep 04 14:17:20 warfare: and sent. Sep 04 14:17:35 warfare: If u have further question, pm me; too lazy to write proper whitepaper for it. Sep 04 14:18:22 Alright, time to get movin for work, afk a bit. If anyone "likes" the idea of "coming together" for a "maemo conference", start posting some ideas... Sep 04 14:57:45 cssu_1.0_armel.deb Sep 04 14:59:07 ? Sep 04 14:59:54 you'll be installing it next month Sep 04 14:59:57 k Sep 04 15:39:28 will it be tested and confirmed stable? Sep 04 15:40:46 yes Sep 04 15:47:00 :P Sep 04 15:49:13 ~bme-replacement Sep 04 15:49:14 bme-replacement is, like, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/projects/maemo/bme-replacement.html See also: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bme_replacement . Please, use wiki page to report bugs/problems and/or solutions to them!, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93183 Sep 04 15:54:32 Is BME replacement recommended for typical phone usage? Sep 04 15:54:49 stable enough for me Sep 04 15:55:21 So no babysitting it? Sep 04 15:57:23 Has anyone made a script or package to strip out the nonfree Maemo packages (however many have replacements) and install the free alternatives? Sep 04 15:57:50 That would be pretty cool, because it can be hard to figure out how to do all of that. Sep 04 16:05:35 ZetaR: are we talking extras packages or system FOSS alternative packages Sep 04 16:06:58 sixwheeledbeast: Something that will strip out as many of the proprietary packages as possible from a fresh flash. That is what I have in mind. Sep 04 16:09:09 ZetaR: people have personal versions but not "all closed packages", TBH if your on CSSU-T there's probably a reason that package is still closed and installed. Sep 04 16:11:32 Well, like bme-replacement, for example. Or fapman. AFAIK, there are replacements for many of the unfree things but you have to know to look for them. Sep 04 16:12:35 i'm preeeeeeeeeetty sure that HAM is opensource Sep 04 16:12:42 and fapman is bad Sep 04 16:13:51 Oh, well, these are things I am not well informed about, and why I am asking. Just replace with whatever is actually a good example. ;-) Sep 04 16:15:29 Yep, do bear in mind that just because it is FOSS that doesn't always mean it's better. Especially if there's no support any more. Sep 04 16:15:52 HAM is open hence speedyham Sep 04 16:16:19 Maybe speedyham is what I was thinking of. Sep 04 16:16:59 speedyham is ham that has been patched my fmg Sep 04 16:17:12 Even just a table of alternatives with comments (like "not recommended because of blah blah") would be nice. Sep 04 16:17:29 Or updated versions like speedyham. Sep 04 16:18:21 Well that's what I mean if you fancy that then CSSU-T is the place to be. Sep 04 16:20:01 Ah, okay. I used stable when I did my flash. Sep 04 16:51:09 imho, ham sucks. Sep 04 16:51:25 * stryngs can't understand why folks would want the GUI package manager that's slower than a cow Sep 04 16:52:25 ham sucks, use lightningh^H speedyham which *rocks* Sep 04 16:52:36 Interesting Sep 04 16:52:43 ~speedyham Sep 04 16:52:44 it has been said that speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb Sep 04 16:53:10 So hey, DocScrutinizer05, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#proper_bash_and_tools <--- is that you? Sep 04 16:53:17 sure :-) Sep 04 16:53:36 DocScrutinizer05: What have you thought about my idea of generating 1 community image to branch out from? Sep 04 16:53:43 and I guess a mentioning of speedyham in there would just be in order Sep 04 16:53:47 DocScrutinizer05: "Bring" the community together, get us all on a level playing field. Sep 04 16:54:04 DocScrutinizer05: Sure, see this is what I'm talking about. If it's so good, ham should be removed and speedyham should be the standard. Sep 04 16:54:07 you lost me Sep 04 16:54:23 DocScrutinizer05: I want to, in the next couple weeks, get a gather of "smart" maemo folks. Sep 04 16:54:38 DocScrutinizer05: I'd like us, to put our heads together and decide on what .debs should be on a "standard" image Sep 04 16:54:47 And then Push that as the "new" way to do maemo Sep 04 16:54:51 Like CSSU, but better. Sep 04 16:54:51 yep, that's what I suggested as "my basic needs covered" package in CSSU repo, as am optional package Sep 04 16:55:27 DocScrutinizer05: Thing is, everybody has a billion great ideas, but unless u look at the forums, or happen to be in chat at the right time and place; all these ideas are scattered like sand in the wind. Sep 04 16:55:48 DocScrutinizer05: Whereas, since we evidently have control of the maemo domain via warfare, we can "point" users in a true northward direction. Sep 04 16:55:49 sadly sort of true that Sep 04 16:56:13 DocScrutinizer05: I propose, that a 100% offline "image" of "whatever we vote to call it" be made available. Sep 04 16:56:18 "point users any direction" is not exactly simple Sep 04 16:56:19 I already do it with my personal image Sep 04 16:56:29 We need to point em in one direction Sep 04 16:56:35 And then ofc, they can branch from there Sep 04 16:56:46 But "one true community inspired" list of .debs and settings. Sep 04 16:56:51 i.e. Sep 04 16:56:55 the mere pointing is a problem Sep 04 16:57:23 So why not guide them and us DocScrutinizer05 ? Sep 04 16:57:34 DocScrutinizer05: You have TONS of postings Sep 04 16:57:41 but they're scattered here and there and everywherre Sep 04 16:57:45 Sicelo has nice stuff too Sep 04 16:57:49 etc, etc, etc... Sep 04 16:57:50 we don't have any package we could swap for a new one and expect *all* users to get the update automatically. There's no such packet we have control of and could mess with it and everybody has installed Sep 04 16:57:57 Yes we do! Sep 04 16:58:03 Hi there, is there any step by step or any tutorial that shows me how to run an example project in ESbox? Im running the virtual image with everything set up already, got xephyr running, but not sure how to run an example app Sep 04 16:58:03 DocScrutinizer05: We make a new repo Sep 04 16:58:17 DocScrutinizer05: In that repo we have 1 metapackage Sep 04 16:58:25 DocScrutinizer05: If users install that one meta Sep 04 16:58:33 new repo is a big headache and nobody has it installed and we can't make anybody install it Sep 04 16:58:35 DocScrutinizer05: Then our Depends: line in the control file, takes care of the rest Sep 04 16:58:42 DocScrutinizer05: We can "point em though" Sep 04 16:58:53 DocScrutinizer05: I'm more than willing to host a repo, I already do for my own purposes. Sep 04 16:59:07 DocScrutinizer05: I'm more than fluent with the meta concept, it's how I push updates for my own users Sep 04 16:59:15 I could prepare a script or install-file or whatever, so users could do one-click-upgrade Sep 04 16:59:26 Just make it a postinst file in DEBIAN dir. Sep 04 16:59:43 DocScrutinizer05: Again, revolve this purely around 1 meta deb. Sep 04 17:00:00 DocScrutinizer05: So... Would you be interested in helping me gather the flock of smart folks? Sep 04 17:00:12 DocScrutinizer05: If we put our heads together, we could invent some kickass n900 project Sep 04 17:00:31 DocScrutinizer05: Thanks to your post, I now know speedpatch is pointless. Sep 04 17:00:33 again, we have no access to the basic repos (well, now we don't have *any* official basic repos), and we don't have a package in e.g. maemo-extras that every user has installed Sep 04 17:01:00 DocScrutinizer05: Can we not put a package in maemo-extras? Sep 04 17:01:23 (gather folks) Imight help a little bit, but actually I'm more than just busy with Neo900 Sep 04 17:01:41 yes, we can put as many packages in maemo-extras as we like Sep 04 17:01:46 DocScrutinizer05: I completly understand, any help u can offer would be wonderful Sep 04 17:02:06 DocScrutinizer05: I'm going to create a forum post soon on this idea, i'll link u when it's done. Sep 04 17:02:17 DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for taking the time to listen =) Sep 04 17:02:30 yw :-) thanks for the initiative Sep 04 17:03:10 sla_erick_: what's ESbox? Sep 04 17:03:37 some scratchbox of sorts? Sep 04 17:03:41 DocScrutinizer05: IDE based on Eclipse Sep 04 17:04:03 DocScrutinizer05: its included in the SDK image Sep 04 17:04:05 never heard of, sorry Sep 04 17:04:24 hmm easydebian is kinda shit :P Sep 04 17:04:45 sla_erick_: then otoh i'm not a developer Sep 04 17:04:45 can i run a newer debian on my n800 in chroot? Sep 04 17:04:56 buZz: "try" Sep 04 17:05:06 I've been debating on trying to get docker rolling... Sep 04 17:05:08 DocScrutinizer05: no problem, I understand Sep 04 17:05:09 How cool would that be. Sep 04 17:05:35 ^_^ pretty cool Sep 04 17:05:52 but just a more recent image of debian would already work i guess Sep 04 17:10:12 stryngs: how about providing a BM backup tarball with a completely configured up-to-date system on it, for now? Sep 04 17:10:37 KotCzarny: do you know if battery-eye works with bme-replacement? Sep 04 17:10:47 could even convert that to a fiasco image for flashing Sep 04 17:11:48 DocScrutinizer05: I have something semi-like what you mention, just not "backup" per se Sep 04 17:12:43 DocScrutinizer05: I have users run 4 scripts from a tarball. In that tarball is what I consider my basic n900 image. It's not as "clean" as a backup manager thing, but that's because I also remove the need to worry about 'optification' and such. Sep 04 17:13:11 DocScrutinizer05: The installation is 100% offline because all the debs are stored in the tarball itself. Sep 04 17:13:19 DocScrutinizer05: Simple dpkg -i operations take place Sep 04 17:13:25 Environment changes, gconf, etc.. Sep 04 17:14:13 DocScrutinizer05: Where I'm lost at; is again, there is no "community consensus" on what's good package, and what's crap package, hence, my image having speedpatch and no speedyham Sep 04 17:14:34 ooops Sep 04 17:14:44 ~crappatch Sep 04 17:14:45 methinks speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch], or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1328060&postcount=3325 [bug report] Sep 04 17:15:17 sicelo: dont know, im on stock firmware Sep 04 17:15:28 ~broken-packages Sep 04 17:15:28 nothing stops your from testing Sep 04 17:15:34 That's the type of knowledge I want to "imprint" on this proposal... Also, for the neo900, this will help tremendously because you'll have an "OS" ready to go for neo900 users. Sep 04 17:15:37 hmm Sep 04 17:15:46 ~listkeys broken Sep 04 17:15:48 Factoid search of 'broken' by key (13 of 28): \broken ;; brokengtalk ;; jargon broken ;; weathercode broken bow ;; link broken ;; broken again shell ;; jargon broken arrow3 ;; weathercode broken hill patton street ;; broken dhcp ;; sid broken networking ;; give or take a broken dependency or two, blackbox ;; sid broken ;; \\broken. Sep 04 17:15:52 sixwheeledbeast: How's it going Sep 04 17:16:10 mmh Sep 04 17:16:12 hey Sep 04 17:16:23 stryngs, i personally (and its not maemo community opinion) dont like cssu-metapackage idea, unless its bare essentials and other things in cssu as optional independent upgrades Sep 04 17:16:25 sixwheeledbeast: What are your thoughts on getting smartfolks like yourself to put heads together and "create" a true new "maemo" image. Sep 04 17:16:44 me smart ? o.O Sep 04 17:16:45 KotCzarny: That's exactly what it could be, bare essentials, we could have other metas for other things Sep 04 17:16:48 KotCzarny: i.e. Sep 04 17:16:52 n900-hackpack Sep 04 17:16:56 n900-bluetooth Sep 04 17:16:57 etc.. Sep 04 17:17:02 you know, the things needed for operation of device Sep 04 17:17:07 and not just 'media player' Sep 04 17:17:14 KotCzarny: Sure man, I get it Sep 04 17:17:20 or image viewer or anything like that Sep 04 17:17:26 KotCzarny: And I like that idea too, actually a lot better than my original idea. Sep 04 17:17:30 but as i said, its only my opinion Sep 04 17:17:52 some people things that metapackage has to cover whole device experience Sep 04 17:17:59 KotCzarny: Take the "1" meta, we'll call it "base" for now... The base meta will "STRIP" out all nonsense from stock maemo, and add needed essentials Sep 04 17:18:10 KotCzarny: Negative, other metas can do that Sep 04 17:18:17 KotCzarny: i.e. n900-media Sep 04 17:18:21 n900-ames Sep 04 17:18:24 n900-games Sep 04 17:18:25 etc.. Sep 04 17:18:31 I like your idea KotCzarny Sep 04 17:18:39 That's what I'm going to start with then Sep 04 17:18:46 KotCzarny: how's *any* of that related to CSSU? Sep 04 17:18:47 KotCzarny: Any idea for a name? Every good package needs a name Sep 04 17:19:12 please read: Sep 04 17:19:14 ~cssu Sep 04 17:19:15 cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) Sep 04 17:19:25 doc, i was referring to stryngs idea of cssu metapackage Sep 04 17:19:39 * stryngs begins writing his proposal while the forge is hot Sep 04 17:19:42 >>It aims to deliver fixes which would be difficult to deliver through Extras (like core Maemo packages). It won't, however, bundle software which can (or could) be installed through the Extras repositories.<< Sep 04 17:20:11 KotCzarny: have just been looking at the source. should work .. it gets info from lshal. Sep 04 17:20:58 You need to break the mp to move towards installing what you want, however, firstly all the dependencies of every package need checking and fixing. Sep 04 17:21:46 sixwheeledbeast: mp? Sep 04 17:22:18 metapackage, Sep 04 17:22:25 Ah Sep 04 17:22:54 sixwheeledbeast: I'm typing up this idea right now; it's too much to put into chat. I'm excited though, people are "thinking" about it and gears are turning Sep 04 17:24:28 the thing is everybody wants something different from Maemo. You need to get it more like a "normal" distro without the metapackage to move forward IMO Sep 04 17:25:36 sixwheeledbeast: I want what u want Sep 04 17:25:45 sixwheeledbeast: I believe I have the solution, which is why i'm writing it down Sep 04 17:25:56 sixwheeledbeast: I believe it will solve everybody's wants too. Sep 04 17:26:04 sixwheeledbeast: Without giving them "crap" they don't want Sep 04 17:26:18 i.e KotCzarny only wants "basic needs", done... Sep 04 17:26:33 Yet, for folks like myself, we want everything "hacker", our needs are solved too Sep 04 17:29:08 yes, the Meta is a PITA. It can't be *that* hard to create proper dependencies for all the packages in MP Sep 04 17:30:13 I fail to really wrap my head around how 'normal' distros make stuff like kernel or dbus or X11 install, but it seems there's no black magic inside maemo couldn't do as well Sep 04 17:30:55 what is the real *problem* that is being fixed by the proposed idea? Sep 04 17:30:59 DocScrutinizer05: Maemo can do it Sep 04 17:31:03 kernel, dbus and x11 is ok Sep 04 17:31:04 systemd is where it gets hairy Sep 04 17:31:06 the devs have this vision that it is updated in lockstep with the linux kernel Sep 04 17:31:07 Sicelo: I'm typing it up! Sep 04 17:31:19 but the debian package dependency handle system cannot do that, i was told Sep 04 17:31:26 you cannot actually depend on a specific kernel version Sep 04 17:31:32 erlehmann: a .deb file can do ANYTHING u want... Sep 04 17:31:40 erlehmann: pre/post inst/rm files... Sep 04 17:31:45 erlehmann: They are magic. Sep 04 17:31:46 stryngs … if i download it from zombo.com Sep 04 17:31:54 stryngs the problem is the dependency checking Sep 04 17:32:14 without a clear understanding of what problem we're trying to solve, i don't think we're going anywhere Sep 04 17:32:19 upgrading from oldstable to stable will happily lead to a system that has systemd and will not let udev recognize your mouse Sep 04 17:32:21 ~xy Sep 04 17:32:21 extra, extra, read all about it, xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal Sep 04 17:32:43 tell me about X! Sep 04 17:32:54 Sicelo: I know how to do X, I just want to get others onboard, or it's not worth it. Sep 04 17:32:55 Sicelo: aiui the "problem" is getting proper tools, speedyham, other stuff that's basically 'optional' onto the devices of users who don't want to cherrypick Sep 04 17:32:55 :) Sep 04 17:33:12 oh Sep 04 17:33:21 speedyham? Sep 04 17:33:25 My problem.... I'm not sure what packages suck, and what is recommended, all i have to go off of, is CSSU repo. Sep 04 17:33:25 ~speedyham Sep 04 17:33:26 speedyham is, like, 30 times faster than HAM http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb Sep 04 17:33:47 oh Sep 04 17:34:09 Sicelo: i.e. I've been rocking speedypatch, when, according to DocScrutinizer05; I'm stupid for doing so. Not cool, I should have never had speedypatch on my n900, but since there isn't 1 source of info for all things "Maemo Community", I wouldn't know it. Sep 04 17:34:18 damn consumer dsl Sep 04 17:34:22 what did i miss? Sep 04 17:34:28 Sicelo: I want to gather the grains of sand, and build the castle Sep 04 17:34:38 Discussing the "idea" KotCzarny Sep 04 17:34:53 make metapackages maemo-cabal-packages-recommended and maemo-cabal-packages-shitquality ? Sep 04 17:35:03 cabal? Sep 04 17:35:07 erlehmann: that's what is sounds like to me Sep 04 17:35:12 *it Sep 04 17:35:16 KotCzarny the people in charge! Sep 04 17:35:22 no way "cabal", that's poettering infested term Sep 04 17:35:31 ~systemd Sep 04 17:35:32 systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd Sep 04 17:35:47 systemd is evil Sep 04 17:36:32 harr harr Sep 04 17:36:33 okay, how is your club called? Sep 04 17:36:36 KotCzarny: why don't you use bme-replacement? Sep 04 17:36:38 lately i upgraded my x32 to jessie and now i dont know which way boot scripts go Sep 04 17:36:46 sicelo: because stock works for me? Sep 04 17:36:48 http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/notes/systemd-linux.html Sep 04 17:36:59 and im too lazy to update to cssu Sep 04 17:37:03 :) Sep 04 17:37:21 (when i get my secondary n900 i will, now i only have one n900 as my main phone) Sep 04 17:37:21 erlehmann: you should see ~poettering Sep 04 17:37:28 great .. that's why i am not so sure about this meta thing Sep 04 17:38:04 ~poettering Sep 04 17:38:04 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal Sep 04 17:40:05 i know that one Sep 04 17:41:14 i wonder why so many distros jumped onto systemd train Sep 04 17:42:10 KotCzarny it was either that or GNOME stops working Sep 04 17:42:25 i dont use gnome (figure that) Sep 04 17:42:42 yes, but that is a *lot* of leverage Sep 04 17:42:42 red hat really pushed its weight around here Sep 04 17:43:27 gnome devs were a bit weasely around that issue, btw Sep 04 17:43:29 wasnt 'do one thing but do it perfect' *nix lead idea? Sep 04 17:43:44 in that sense systemd is turning 180degs Sep 04 17:44:39 AFAIK, GNOME 3.13.2 “temporarily” depended on systemd. as in “we will remove the dependency in 3.14, honest!” Sep 04 17:44:59 bye bye gnome Sep 04 17:45:01 turns out the GNOME devs have funny ideas of what “temporarily” means (i.e. “forever”) Sep 04 17:45:23 and then it was on, you either ditch GNOME from your distribution or use systemd Sep 04 17:45:27 funnily how much faster my laptop is without it Sep 04 17:45:54 and how much crappackages are uninstalled when one doesnt need it anymore Sep 04 17:46:17 treachery! blasphemy! Sep 04 17:46:18 hahaha :D Sep 04 17:46:38 ; cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/use-sysvinit Sep 04 17:46:38 Package: systemd-sysv Sep 04 17:46:38 Pin: release o=Debian Sep 04 17:46:38 Pin-Priority: -1 Sep 04 17:46:57 i do that too, but still, my initscripts are a mess now Sep 04 17:47:13 a mess? Sep 04 17:47:17 yup Sep 04 17:47:34 something doesnt remount my / rw Sep 04 17:47:48 krhrhr Sep 04 17:48:04 but this x32 debian is just a test bed anyway Sep 04 17:48:10 normally i use slack Sep 04 17:48:13 erlehmann: many thanks for http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/notes/systemd-linux.html - awesome Sep 04 17:48:42 :3 Sep 04 17:48:48 DocScrutinizer05 i have a less tongue-in-cheek post regarding the issue http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/systemd-assumptions-bullying-consent.html Sep 04 17:49:03 is there english version? Sep 04 17:49:13 its a shopping list of bullying behaviour Sep 04 17:49:46 KotCzarny the post that DocScrutinizer05 liked is just “why is it GNU/Linux instead of Linux” mutated to “why is it Systemd/Linux instead of Linux” Sep 04 17:49:55 it is mainly a joke Sep 04 17:50:01 :) Sep 04 17:50:22 i can highly recommend to read the systemd source Sep 04 17:50:26 and the pulseaudio source Sep 04 17:50:29 it is quality comedy Sep 04 17:50:35 it looks like slack doesnt have gnome anymore in -current Sep 04 17:50:36 yay! Sep 04 17:57:08 so back to the thing Sep 04 17:57:53 hehe, so systemd is just about shaving 5s boot time, when we have tux-on-ice, yet making it inflexible and buggy Sep 04 17:58:00 sounds like the right idea Sep 04 17:59:49 Can one of ya'll do me a favor and on your n900, please do: mount | nc termbin.com 9999 && df -h | nc termbin.com 9999 Sep 04 17:59:53 And post the urls? Sep 04 18:00:02 I need a non'stryngs system to compare for the post against Sep 04 18:00:57 lel Sep 04 18:02:38 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=cdMv8PMt Sep 04 18:02:55 word Sep 04 18:03:10 http://paste.opensuse.org/45751323 Sep 04 18:03:27 KotCzarny: that's hillarious Sep 04 18:03:37 which part? Sep 04 18:03:47 I actually refreshed 3 times before I got the joke Sep 04 18:03:55 Please refresh the page to continue... Sep 04 18:04:03 lol Sep 04 18:04:13 works for me in firefox Sep 04 18:04:19 huh? Sep 04 18:04:23 Oh, u actually posted it? Sep 04 18:04:27 I thought u were lulzing me Sep 04 18:04:38 nope Sep 04 18:04:45 that's my n900's df and mount Sep 04 18:05:10 http://www.picpaste.com/lol-Y1hkPikw.png Sep 04 18:05:12 and works in links too Sep 04 18:05:15 That's what it shows. Sep 04 18:05:25 http://paste.opensuse.org/45751323 Sep 04 18:05:30 O.o Sep 04 18:05:33 try links? Sep 04 18:05:38 Meh, I got it from DocScrutinizer05 Sep 04 18:05:38 or any other browser? Sep 04 18:05:49 Anyone's system works just fine, just need something "other" than mine right now Sep 04 18:05:56 i am waiting for Sep 04 18:05:57 systemd on /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,name=systemd) Sep 04 18:06:01 :--DDD Sep 04 18:06:05 :) Sep 04 18:06:08 Trying to make this as indepth of a writeup as possible. I'm only going to get one shot at this when it comes to people listening.... Sep 04 18:06:09 pastebin.com is JS infested iirc Sep 04 18:06:39 actually nope, it's a plain txt Sep 04 18:07:19 http://pastebin.ca/raw/3152192 Sep 04 18:07:24 copy on pastebin.ca Sep 04 18:07:37 doc: i always paste raw links Sep 04 18:07:46 aaah that's why Sep 04 18:07:54 faster and no js, dont know why they hate stryngs chrome Sep 04 18:08:05 as i said, link worked in links Sep 04 18:08:22 Meh, no worries, DocScrutinizer05's post was exactly what I needed Sep 04 18:08:37 I really thought you lulz'd me though, I busted out laughing Sep 04 18:08:47 stryngs, his system is cssu, mine us stock fremantle Sep 04 18:09:11 ...and it made me curse why no netcat on my N900 Sep 04 18:09:12 cssu doesn't repartition anything iirc .. so they'll be the same Sep 04 18:09:34 sicelo, what about free space? Sep 04 18:09:47 i doubt that's what stryngs is after :) Sep 04 18:09:59 well, it doesn't repartition but for sure has some changes to uSD card mounts Sep 04 18:10:05 he's likely on mounts the way i understand Sep 04 18:10:06 Sicelo: you're 100% correct Sep 04 18:10:07 i wonder why pymaemo is so ugly in bind mounts Sep 04 18:10:17 KotCzarny: I intend to fix that. Sep 04 18:10:25 KotCzarny: Quick, fast and in a hurry. Sep 04 18:10:29 symlinks would suffice Sep 04 18:10:31 This is where Pali will come in at too Sep 04 18:10:38 No, no symlinks, bind mounts Sep 04 18:10:43 I want FHS Sep 04 18:10:47 stryngs what is the writeup? Sep 04 18:10:57 erlehmann: My proposal for a "standard maemo" "distro" Sep 04 18:11:20 erlehmann: But, I've gotta make sure I write it up proper, otherwise, nobody will care, and things stay the same. Sep 04 18:11:29 erlehmann: I will post before end of day though. Sep 04 18:11:29 stryngs maemo 6? Sep 04 18:11:34 7 Sep 04 18:11:37 erlehmann: We can call it dogwater for all i care. Sep 04 18:11:46 * stryngs goes back to writing Sep 04 18:11:55 6 is Harmattan ;) Sep 04 18:11:55 hmm, but it will need repartitioned internal mmc, right? Sep 04 18:12:06 call it fremantle reloaded Sep 04 18:12:09 lel Sep 04 18:12:09 can i choose the codename? Sep 04 18:15:29 call it “meatloaf mermen“ Sep 04 18:15:32 that's an anagram of “maemo fremantle” Sep 04 18:16:00 that's great :-D Sep 04 18:16:23 but actually it's not a veritable distro, it's just a collection of patches and apps Sep 04 18:16:44 doc, remember difference between chinook and diablo? Sep 04 18:16:56 also just a collection of patches and upgrades Sep 04 18:16:58 so what Yast calls a category or group or theme Sep 04 18:17:39 anagram: did you mean: nag a ram? Sep 04 18:17:51 well, I seriously doubt that, since packages were not really compatible, no? Sep 04 18:18:10 i think they mostly were, i might be wrong, old time Sep 04 18:18:12 *times Sep 04 18:18:27 http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=fremantle+cssu&t=1000&a=n Sep 04 18:18:38 Fecal Sternums Sep 04 18:18:40 ;) Sep 04 18:18:49 ROTFL Sep 04 18:19:03 Screams Fluent Sep 04 18:19:12 Scam Resentful Sep 04 18:19:23 Manful Secrets Sep 04 18:19:28 I take it Fecal Sternums would be at the "center" of the maemo world =) Sep 04 18:19:33 A shitstorm as it were... Sep 04 18:19:34 =) Sep 04 18:19:56 so many fecal options Sep 04 18:20:04 Fecal Men Rusts Sep 04 18:20:12 erlehmann: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=fremantle+cssu&t=1000&a=n Sep 04 18:20:58 Camel Rent Fuss Sep 04 18:21:14 Camel Nest Surf Sep 04 18:22:46 Rectal Mess Fun Sep 04 18:24:15 I dunno, meatloaf mermen is kinda funny =) Almost ubuntu like in it's ridiculousness Sep 04 18:24:49 something that makes cssu spellable would be nice either Sep 04 18:27:54 okay, is it possible to create a bare-bones image for maemo? Sep 04 18:27:58 like, with current tools? Sep 04 18:28:01 one that can be flashed to the n900? Sep 04 18:28:27 flashable? yes, fiasco? probably not Sep 04 18:28:56 erlehmann: Yes and no. flash and the apt-get purge Sep 04 18:28:56 fiasco? Sep 04 18:29:03 rescueos is a nice base for arbitrary flashing Sep 04 18:29:17 with ability to change partitions too Sep 04 18:29:20 so how far can we get with a bare-bones image and mostly-free software? Sep 04 18:29:23 or rsyncing things Sep 04 18:29:31 ~fiasco Sep 04 18:29:31 L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ Sep 04 18:29:35 o.o Sep 04 18:29:56 ~literal fiasco Sep 04 18:29:56 "fiasco" is " L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/" Sep 04 18:30:04 ~listkeys fiasco Sep 04 18:30:06 Factoid search of 'fiasco' by key (1): fiasco. Sep 04 18:30:29 erlehman: fiasco is the image format used by flasher-3.5 Sep 04 18:30:30 erlehmann: Pretty damn far, the problem is all the info is scattered worse than a sandstorm Sep 04 18:31:17 then we should start collecting ti Sep 04 18:31:17 it Sep 04 18:31:33 initrd based boot + some scripting + mtd tools ? Sep 04 18:32:03 erlehmann: That's what I'm tryign to do =) Sep 04 18:32:05 0xFFFF can boot kernel+initrd Sep 04 18:32:21 mtd? Sep 04 18:32:39 internal flash is mtd device Sep 04 18:32:54 unless we talk about moving everything to internal sd Sep 04 18:32:57 busybox can be init Sep 04 18:32:57 i have an outlandish idea Sep 04 18:32:59 use DJB redo for init system Sep 04 18:32:59 i implemented redo in like 300 lines of shell script Sep 04 18:32:59 :3 Sep 04 18:33:09 so you could have dependency based boot with shell Sep 04 18:33:53 i dont mind good ol' sysvinit Sep 04 18:34:40 but redo/upstart work as long its consistent Sep 04 18:35:28 yeah, or that Sep 04 18:35:28 :3 Sep 04 18:36:31 does redo work with standard apps? (for example apache init scripts etc) Sep 04 18:40:05 erlehmann: of course you can build a FIASCO image with all the nice tools in it Sep 04 18:40:11 he left Sep 04 18:40:34 he asked if it can be built with foss tools Sep 04 18:41:37 I dunno if fiascogen is FOSS Sep 04 18:42:49 check out: Sep 04 18:42:51 ~bm Sep 04 18:42:51 rumour has it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Sep 04 18:43:27 there's a fiasco rootimage (aka COMBINED) with BM integrated Sep 04 18:43:38 and instructions how to build it Sep 04 18:46:42 DocScrutinizer05: o0o0 Sep 04 18:47:08 DocScrutinizer05: So we "can" build an image, that has more and less than what the stock pr1.3 comes with, and flash it Directly to the n900? Sep 04 18:47:44 yes Sep 04 18:48:13 Intersting, I'm going to notate that Sep 04 18:48:19 Yet another tidbit of info Sep 04 18:48:33 * stryngs hears "Dust in the Wind" playing softly in the background Sep 04 18:49:27 * DocScrutinizer05 heads to kitchen for some calories goo and a fine latte mac Sep 04 18:50:41 stryngs: yet another "info" source you as well could ignore: wiki "the optimal setup" Sep 04 18:50:49 pretty biased Sep 04 18:52:39 it might have valuable factoids in it, but you need to check every single line if it's actually what you want Sep 04 18:57:39 Then I tried systemd again. I have configured my system for runlevel 3, but initctl insists on runlevel 5 for the legacy initscripts. You cannot change this behaviour because it is hardcoded in the C source like engraved in stone, seriously! This is exactly why I prefer scripts. Sep 04 18:58:04 could be the reason my initscripts in this systemd debian are a mess Sep 04 19:04:49 stryngs: hm... you highlighted my name Sep 04 19:04:51 so? :-) Sep 04 19:11:57 I think it wasn't a request Sep 04 19:13:14 prolly was about [2015-09-04 Fri 20:09:58] well, it doesn't repartition but for sure has some changes to uSD card mounts Sep 04 19:13:28 (cssu) Sep 04 19:13:50 Pali: hi btw Sep 04 19:36:41 Telefon od poczontuk urzywany przeze mnie wszystko działa prucz wyraźnego usb Sep 04 19:36:48 um, wrong window, sorry Sep 04 20:22:25 Pali: Hi! Sep 04 20:22:31 hi! Sep 04 20:22:51 Pali I don't want to repeat my idea a billion times, but here is the gist: Put all the smart maemo folks together and create something better than what we have. Sep 04 20:22:58 Pali: U are the Kernel developer genius Sep 04 20:23:02 Pali: Hence, your highlight Sep 04 20:23:14 Pali: I'm about 1/3 done with the proposal and will link u when complete Sep 04 20:23:20 ok Sep 04 21:05:07 ! It is finished! Sep 04 21:05:09 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1481123#post1481123 Sep 04 21:06:18 Pali DocScrutinizer05 KotCzarny Sicelo warfare merlin1991 ^^^ Sep 04 21:06:32 You'l have to click the pastebin link, but it's because I was char limited Sep 04 21:11:39 stryngs: that's almost a manifesto :P Sep 04 21:11:50 * stryngs twitches Sep 04 21:12:02 Stupid character limiters... Sep 04 21:12:10 It was only 150583 characters damnit... Sep 04 21:12:38 hehe the line must be drawn somewhere... :) Sep 04 21:12:54 Ah, forgot a name, sixwheeledbeast the link for the proposal is: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1481123#post1481123 Sep 04 21:13:02 Ras_Older: ^^ Sep 04 21:19:28 what's the camera problem? don't get that part ... Sep 04 21:21:37 Sicelo: When i go to view my pictures, I have to choose the folder Sep 04 21:21:46 Sicelo: It happens whenever u mod the basic hdd layout for some darn reason Sep 04 21:22:16 It's a "non-issue" but worth mentioned so people aren't freaked out like "zOMG, stryngs is an idiot and broke my Carl Zeiss!" Sep 04 21:22:49 Sicelo: In truth, it's probably fixable via a gconf command of sorts I bet... Sep 04 21:23:55 i resized my 32GB years ago and never had camera issues. :-/ Sep 04 21:25:25 anyway ... Sep 04 21:34:39 I got stryngs' version running on my N900 and I can confirm those issues Sep 04 21:34:48 might be fixable though.. Sep 04 21:35:00 also I like his idea Sep 04 21:35:00 Just need smart folks to pull together and invent something..... =) Sep 04 21:35:31 and I can contribute some debs to the hacker-n900 meta repo if you'll take 'em Sep 04 21:36:01 Can you code though Jack64 ? =) Sep 04 21:36:03 * stryngs grins Sep 04 21:36:59 * Jack64 smiles Sep 04 21:51:22 stryngs: Your idea makes sense to me. The only current "issue" to get this thing rolling is to agree what exactly would be the base package. After that its just choosing what goes to which metapackage afaik. Sep 04 21:52:29 Although I must say that I have never had proper time to truly understand how that optifying actually works :D Sep 04 21:54:16 Ras_Older: afaik, it moves stuff to opt, and then symlinks Sep 04 21:54:48 Ras_Older: It sucks because, I don't like doing that; I shouldn't have to "optify" to make my n900 work. dpkg -i & go is my opinion Sep 04 21:57:59 Agreed on that.. Sep 04 21:58:15 Ras_Older: Truth be told though; the tricks I use aren't required for this idea. It just gave me a place to discuss em is all. The main thing is the creation of an "image" Sep 04 22:02:55 so all that is needed is a list of base stuff? that should be simple enough Sep 04 22:03:53 But where to draw the line for what that includes? Sep 04 22:04:08 some debate is to be expected on some stuff Sep 04 22:04:12 ^^ Sep 04 22:04:23 The "base" approach should be the bare minimum, period. Sep 04 22:04:25 imho. Sep 04 22:04:38 If you want dev tools, dev-meta Sep 04 22:05:01 but what is the bare minimum? do you have a list already stryngs? Sep 04 22:05:03 This will keep minimalists like KotCzarny willing to contribute. Sep 04 22:05:08 I do Jack64 Sep 04 22:05:12 It's in your hand Sep 04 22:05:19 hehe Sep 04 22:05:23 I like it Sep 04 22:05:34 It needs work though, evidently speedpatch is stupid Sep 04 22:05:38 Yet, u and i both have it... Sep 04 22:05:44 he said/ she said nonsense... Sep 04 22:05:49 right Sep 04 22:06:10 Yes but what is minimum here? Is it that devide boots to desktop and absolutely nothing else? Does it have basic connectivity capabilites like internet browsing etc. Sep 04 22:06:14 you should make it a real list though, so people can start chiming in Sep 04 22:06:16 Jack64: Truth be told, I'm sure we could slim it down even further than what script-1.sh does tbh. Sep 04 22:06:44 Jack64: I'm going to do that this weekend, flashing to stock. Sep 04 22:07:06 Ras_Older: Bare minimum in my mind, would be taking the n900, purging all nonsense from it: facebook, games, etc... Sep 04 22:07:09 well I suggest all hardware should be installed and ready to use Sep 04 22:07:18 Ras_Older: But not so bare minimum as to remove the file manager Sep 04 22:07:38 ^^ Sep 04 22:07:57 Jack64: When I flash to stock this weekend, I'm going to dpkg --list and notate whats there, then compare against script-1.sh and what it purges, start making my list from there. Sep 04 22:08:10 Yeah exactly so and there must be some packages that will need voting as what stays and what goes Sep 04 22:08:10 Stock pr1.3 everything works Sep 04 22:08:16 Ras_Older: Agreed Sep 04 22:08:27 Ras_Older: Also, some packages, are hard to come by Sep 04 22:08:30 yep sounds good Sep 04 22:08:38 Ras_Older: afaik, if u apt-get purge em, they're gone, gotta reflash to get em back. Sep 04 22:08:53 Oh, okeyyy I didn't actually know that :D Sep 04 22:08:55 Part of the "nokia" issue Sep 04 22:08:56 stryngs: I really like the proposal. I have one question: could the filesystem layout / installation be set up with LUKS/cryptsetup in mind? AFAIK, right now you need to move your installation to the microSD in order to encrypt it. I am not saying "install with encryption by default", but rather "encryption is possible without major filesystem changes". Sep 04 22:09:22 ZetaR: MicroSD works great for those who can use it, me though, my reader is busted. Sep 04 22:09:53 ZetaR: However, I like the "option" and it wouldnt be hard to give a user the option in the "install script" either. Chose A for encryption, B for normal Sep 04 22:10:11 ZetaR: If pivoting was done, the whole filesystem will work on the SD card. Sep 04 22:10:22 ZetaR: There are so many possibilities with the n900 Sep 04 22:11:08 What do you mean by "pivoting"? Sep 04 22:11:31 Boot normally, and at some point in the process you are chrooted over to your sd card with full / layout on the sd card Sep 04 22:11:38 Weren't there some issues back in the day with full encryption of the file system? Can't remember for sure but I just recall something that it was problematic at the time atleast. Sep 04 22:11:44 ZetaR: Almost like my rbind mount tricks, but fully /'d on SD Sep 04 22:11:54 Ah, okay. I haven't heard that word used for that before. Sep 04 22:12:15 ZetaR: I stopped entertaining the idea with the Pwnie guys after we settled on bind mounts Sep 04 22:13:10 Also, for those who contribute, HOW COOL would it be, if this takes off. To put your contributions on something like a resume. Sep 04 22:13:38 Blah blah... Helped to contribute to the Nokia n900 revitilazation process, Was intricate to doing x, y and z. 30,000 verified users. etc...... Sep 04 22:14:19 Also, for the fools crazy enough to spend the loot for the neo900 (myself included here), it'll be a good baseline for the neo. Sep 04 22:14:25 I just think it would be great to start having Maemo "distros" outside of the default flash process. IMO, that is a major part of Linux that is missing on the N900. Sep 04 22:14:36 That's the gist ZetaR =) Sep 04 22:14:52 You know what would be truly great? Not having this ******* helpdesk job that tears your soul apart and to actually have time for projects like this one discussed today. To do something meaningful for a chance.. Sep 04 22:14:54 Jack64: Alright man, you did it; backing up my n900 and flashing Sep 04 22:15:04 Ras_Older: Where do u live? Sep 04 22:15:23 stryngs: didmit? Sep 04 22:15:31 did it*? Sep 04 22:15:34 In the North where winter is coming... Finland, Jyväskylä. Sep 04 22:15:43 u mentioned baseline packages; to get it, i must flash =) But, imho, your idea IS the first step towards this. Sep 04 22:16:01 Ah, nvm; was going to offer you a job if u had the experience, but it's uhm, a puddle jump away Sep 04 22:16:14 yep, let's go for it :) Sep 04 22:16:17 Ah yes the little pond in between us? Sep 04 22:16:22 Yep Sep 04 22:16:29 apt-get install puddlejump Sep 04 22:16:40 hey I want that too Sep 04 22:16:50 nope, it's all mine! Sep 04 22:17:00 puddlejump --Amsterdam Sep 04 22:17:08 * stryngs shoots up and hits the red light district Sep 04 22:17:20 haha meet you there Sep 04 22:17:25 =) Sep 04 22:17:41 stryngs: how about CCC? Sep 04 22:18:01 I'd love to visit that. Sep 04 22:18:25 time to save up Sep 04 22:18:32 or pwn united for miles Sep 04 22:18:36 haha Sep 04 22:18:37 I'm more worried about bsidescharleston Sep 04 22:18:39 fuck united Sep 04 22:18:41 Same here. Was just today talking about it with my gf that we would want to go check it out. Sep 04 22:18:41 * stryngs grumbles Sep 04 22:19:02 about CCC that is Sep 04 22:19:18 stryngs: Another thought: It might be a good idea to have some sort of diagnostic/CLI mode possible with a MMC/partition problem. Some of the things moved around (e.g. /lib) will break basic systems and CLI utilities if the MMC is unavailable (unless they are statically linked). Sep 04 22:19:29 ZetaR: Already done Sep 04 22:19:38 ZetaR: Backup menu && ssh && go Sep 04 22:19:48 ZetaR: Used it when i was first figuring out how to rbind mount Sep 04 22:20:16 ZetaR: As it stands now, the dirs you see in that post; 100% stable Sep 04 22:20:20 Okay, so that works with /lib and /sbin being moved? Sep 04 22:20:23 ZetaR: It's things like /etc I'm curious of Sep 04 22:20:38 ZetaR: 100% Sep 04 22:20:45 Cool. Sep 04 22:20:46 Ras_Older: how much is a CCC ticket? Sep 04 22:21:08 I'd love to go too Sep 04 22:26:08 I'm not sure about that but for me the travel & accommodation will be way more than the actual ticket :D Sep 04 22:26:26 no ryanair over there? Sep 04 22:26:49 accomodation might be pricy tho Sep 04 22:31:08 ~optification Sep 04 22:31:08 optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" Sep 04 22:32:45 damn looks like 31C3 is sold out Sep 04 22:33:41 stryngs: why not do it the FHS way and mount /usr from eMMC? Sep 04 22:36:05 DocScrutinizer05: Not following, plz elaborate? Sep 04 22:36:11 and get rid of all that /opt nonsense Sep 04 22:36:24 DocScrutinizer05: I did get rid of the /opt nonseense Sep 04 22:37:02 DocScrutinizer05: Lines 64-69 of the proposal Sep 04 22:37:37 DocScrutinizer05: Only "requirement" is neutralizing pymaemo-optify, which is hardcode "Depended" to a lot of files. Sep 04 22:38:02 64-68 rather, disregard 69 Sep 04 22:38:22 mmmm 69 =) Sep 04 22:42:06 Whoa....... The following directories, or symbolic links to directories, are required in /. Sep 04 22:42:11 It mentions /etc Sep 04 22:42:11 ! Sep 04 22:42:18 And var... Sep 04 22:42:36 * stryngs wants to perform open heart surgery on his n900 tonight Sep 04 22:48:27 that's all bindmounts Sep 04 22:48:46 DocScrutinizer05: Right, are you saying there is a true better FHS way? Sep 04 22:49:01 get a eMMS partition for /usr Sep 04 22:49:21 DocScrutinizer05: What about /lib /sbin, etc..? Sep 04 22:49:46 those should stay on /, according to FHS Sep 04 22:50:21 DocScrutinizer05: But then we have to worry about .debs filling up / Sep 04 22:50:25 i.e. things under /etc Sep 04 22:51:10 Not that you would ever have that many configuration files, but it could happen with X ammnt of .debs Sep 04 22:51:11 why's that? any decent deb that's not relevant for emergency-booting into singleuser mode is supposed to live in /usr/* Sep 04 22:51:30 and /etc should be small Sep 04 22:51:47 So you're a fan of /usr/etc stuff then Sep 04 22:51:58 I've read FHS a couple times, but it can be mindnumbing Sep 04 22:52:02 IroN900:~# du -hs /etc Sep 04 22:52:03 6,4M /etc Sep 04 22:52:23 ! Sep 04 22:52:25 7.3m here Sep 04 22:52:30 wow, i underestimated Sep 04 22:52:42 over rather Sep 04 22:52:51 it's quite small enough for a 200MB rootfs Sep 04 22:53:16 FHS is about decent system 'architecture" Sep 04 22:53:56 http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 Sep 04 22:54:16 DocScrutinizer05: ./configure --prefix=/usr, that mostly will conform to FHS for a decent program, yes? Sep 04 22:55:24 http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE18 Sep 04 22:55:52 yep, seems to me that's correct Sep 04 22:56:35 Mmmmkay. so DocScrutinizer05, to get eMMC partition for /usr, what's the method? Sep 04 22:57:47 we have a few critters that are in /usr/sbin or /usr/libs etc despite they are needed during early boot. Nokia ignored the fuckup and made that optification botch while keeping /usr/sbin et al on rootfs. The correct fix is to move those packahes from /usr/*/* to /*/* Sep 04 22:59:05 DocScrutinizer05: Without being a certified linux sysadmin, how do we figure out which ones they are? Sep 04 22:59:12 stryngs: I guess we could hack the config file in VANILLA that makes softupd or what's the name create the partitions on eMMC Sep 04 22:59:14 DocScrutinizer05: This is also why I never went further with the bindmount hack Sep 04 22:59:42 DocScrutinizer05: I don't know enough about initial bootup of linux, to determine what's truly needed, or I would have moved everything to ext3 possible. Sep 04 23:00:16 stryngs: there are ways to trace which files in /usr/sbin et al are getting accessed at which point during boot Sep 04 23:00:36 DocScrutinizer05: As a good starting point, if I gave you a list of packages that come on stock pr1.3, could you point out which ones are not needed from a "bloat" perspective? Sep 04 23:01:05 DocScrutinizer05: i.e. imho, facebook is bloat Sep 04 23:01:30 DocScrutinizer05: At the same time, I don't want to call X bloat, and it be a truly needed package that I just don't know about Sep 04 23:01:36 a funny one was gstreamer plugins or somesuch getting optified and that resulted in audio permanently broken since during boot the shaking hands video couldn't load the plugin and that was sticky Sep 04 23:02:06 * stryngs murdered the shaking hands video Sep 04 23:02:13 me too Sep 04 23:02:15 see Sep 04 23:02:18 ~jrtools Sep 04 23:02:19 [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Sep 04 23:02:54 All the stuff you #'d, thats due to CSSU invoking it, no? Sep 04 23:03:07 yes, I could point to a few packages that are not strictly needed in a base config Sep 04 23:03:21 like modest, and a dozen other apps and stuff Sep 04 23:03:42 yes, most of it Sep 04 23:03:45 DocScrutinizer05: Ok. I gotta wrap up here and head home. Got some backups I need to do, but I'll be stock flashing tonight and have a list handy soon Sep 04 23:03:49 it comes with CSSU now Sep 04 23:05:33 DocScrutinizer05: To verify we're on same page. The files I currently flash with are: Sep 04 23:05:36 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Sep 04 23:05:40 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Sep 04 23:05:57 ^^ Again, I'm asking because there are evidently other options I could have gone with. Sep 04 23:12:36 go with ~flashing Sep 04 23:12:42 ~flashing Sep 04 23:12:42 i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh Sep 04 23:13:13 guess what? I dunno the exact filenames anymore, since I coded them into that script ;-) Sep 04 23:13:40 ~pr131 Sep 04 23:13:40 combined is probably the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ Sep 04 23:13:50 ~pr13 Sep 04 23:13:59 ~pr1.3 Sep 04 23:14:00 extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update Sep 04 23:14:53 stryngs: get http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz Sep 04 23:15:02 it's tiny, and convenient Sep 04 23:16:05 you can also have a look into the script in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir Sep 04 23:16:28 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir/flash-it-all.sh Sep 04 23:42:38 Word, DocScrutinizer05 grabbing those files. I'm hoping everythign aligns, I already have a stock_debs file handy from previous work. Let me grab yer stuff and see what ya got Sep 04 23:44:49 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz 404 error Sep 04 23:45:36 but... Indexing is on Sep 05 00:11:52 ugh Sep 05 00:12:31 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tar.gz Sep 05 00:14:25 fixed Sep 05 01:04:21 ~flash Sep 05 01:04:21 i guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh Sep 05 01:04:46 Interesting. No more ability to get the original software from Nokia I see Sep 05 01:05:55 2015-09-04 21:05:47 ERROR 404: Not Found. Sep 05 01:05:58 DocScrutinizer05: ^ Sep 05 01:07:59 ~firmware Sep 05 01:07:59 i guess firmware is please see ~combined ~emmc ~flasher Sep 05 01:08:03 ~combined Sep 05 01:08:03 somebody said combined was the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ Sep 05 01:09:12 ~emmc Sep 05 01:09:12 emmc is probably is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 Sep 05 01:09:24 ~emmc3 Sep 05 01:09:25 hmm... emmc3 is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/4/--FID--A0A22UYGVCFDF/--LID--FiRe1272381325983/E14B4F3B_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SCANDINAVIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Sep 05 01:09:29 ~emmc2 Sep 05 01:09:29 extra, extra, read all about it, emmc2 is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22FGDOJCSI/--LID--FiRe1275064390175/163EC1AE_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.IBERIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22VHGOMWUG/--LID--FiRe1274862877184/E3AD4912_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SEAP_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or see emmc3 Sep 05 01:09:33 Heh Sep 05 01:09:46 ~emmc Sep 05 01:09:46 it has been said that emmc is is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 Sep 05 01:09:54 So what is the diff between that Sep 05 01:09:58 ~emmc2 Sep 05 01:09:58 i guess emmc2 is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22FGDOJCSI/--LID--FiRe1275064390175/163EC1AE_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.IBERIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22VHGOMWUG/--LID--FiRe1274862877184/E3AD4912_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SEAP_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or see emmc3 Sep 05 01:10:00 and that Sep 05 01:10:06 ~emmc3 Sep 05 01:10:07 [emmc3] http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/4/--FID--A0A22UYGVCFDF/--LID--FiRe1272381325983/E14B4F3B_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SCANDINAVIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Sep 05 01:10:09 and that Sep 05 01:10:11 ~emmc4 Sep 05 01:10:15 ? Sep 05 01:15:17 hehe, This is the type of stuff I'm talkin bout =) So much info Sep 05 02:08:01 Yey i got terminator to work on W10! Now why did I need it in the first place... Sep 05 02:08:53 I'm doing some black magic compiling voodoo with cygwin Sep 05 02:18:26 Ras_Older: Question for you Sep 05 02:18:43 Ras_Older: When it came to picking which files to flash with; how did u make your decision? Sep 05 02:19:17 one candy first -> *noms* gotta love these Zolpidems.. Sep 05 02:21:02 I see it as we have problem X = working device non-bloated with bad stuff. Sep 05 02:21:59 ffs Sep 05 02:22:00 http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ Sep 05 02:22:03 Anyone have that? Sep 05 02:22:07 We need the ones that are critical to system boot-up process. Also would it be good to discuss what is bloat? Sep 05 02:22:22 Well, I'm with ya on that, but i'm talking about your flashing files Sep 05 02:22:25 Watch... Sep 05 02:22:27 ~emmc Sep 05 02:22:27 i heard emmc is is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 Sep 05 02:22:30 ~emmc2 Sep 05 02:22:30 emmc2 is, like, http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22FGDOJCSI/--LID--FiRe1275064390175/163EC1AE_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.IBERIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22VHGOMWUG/--LID--FiRe1274862877184/E3AD4912_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SEAP_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or see emmc3 Sep 05 02:22:32 ~emmc3 Sep 05 02:22:32 [emmc3] http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/4/--FID--A0A22UYGVCFDF/--LID--FiRe1272381325983/E14B4F3B_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SCANDINAVIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Sep 05 02:22:36 SO MUCH INFO Sep 05 02:22:41 etc.. Sep 05 02:22:46 How did you make your decision Sep 05 02:24:38 Flashing my device? Oooh boy that happened way back at 2012 when my crazy ass ex tried to smash me with a frying pan when I was sleeping.. Sep 05 02:25:27 Ok, so let's say you needed to flash right now; how would u decide? Sep 05 02:28:33 Study first before deciding and yep it looks like I can't find actual information regards those topics hanging on up there.. Sep 05 02:29:45 With those hanging there... I would be scared to do a decision without some back-up from the documentation Sep 05 02:30:34 Did you try Russian Roulette yet with them? That could be fun times. Sep 05 02:31:19 No, I've got my methods, but this is good; another bullet in the gun =) Sep 05 02:32:16 So, is pr 1.3.1 or 1.3 the way to go DocScrutinizer05 ? Sep 05 02:32:24 Even maemo webpage only shows 1.3 Sep 05 02:32:25 Who is it meant for? *places a flower to that gun barrel* Sep 05 02:32:35 Ras_Older: The community to motivate us =) Sep 05 02:33:22 We got no documentation regards those??? Really :D Sep 05 02:39:46 Anyhoo I'll look into those after some sleep. These candies do funny thingies to me brainies Sep 05 02:56:10 stryngs: 1.3.1 is a minor security update that also comes with CSSU Sep 05 02:57:48 actually 1.3.1 only removes a few compromised certs iirc **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 05 02:59:58 2015