**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 07 02:59:58 2015 Sep 07 03:30:22 http://i.imgur.com/oQea0S1.jpg Sep 07 04:03:53 facebook inbox is not working with QML-browser. Is this known problem? It works with Microb though. Sep 07 04:04:16 m.facebook.com Sep 07 04:18:21 Vajb, try touch.facebook.com Sep 07 04:34:31 * stryngs thinks, after reading the chatback, that stryngs for maemo President 2016 =) ! Sep 07 04:35:40 Roth: thx. Will try later. Sep 07 04:52:54 stryngs: are you the one who wanted to free xchat from scratchbox weirdness? ;-) Sep 07 07:12:24 *yawns* Sep 07 07:12:28 I installed libtool on my N900, and when I try to run libtool, it complains about /scratchbox/tools/bin/sed being not found Sep 07 07:12:58 oksana, sdk dpkg were never meant to be installed on device Sep 07 07:13:01 so dont use that repo Sep 07 07:13:13 if you really must grab some old debian ones Sep 07 07:13:41 s/sdk dpkg/sdk debs/ Sep 07 07:16:05 or just compile on device with --prefix=/opt or something Sep 07 07:16:43 what is libtool for? It looks like super-weird wrapper. libtool --mode=execute somecommand Sep 07 07:17:04 more like for repackaging libs Sep 07 07:17:42 GNU libtool is a generic library support script. Libtool hides the complexity of using shared libraries behind a consistent, portable interface. Sep 07 07:18:08 http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/html_node/Introduction.html#Introduction Sep 07 07:21:49 Weird... It's in Extras repository, too, not only in SDK repository. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/libtool/1.5.26-3maemo1/ Sep 07 07:23:10 then check where your's came from Sep 07 07:23:17 apt-cache policy libtool Sep 07 07:23:48 and that could mean someone just put sdk's one into extras Sep 07 07:26:30 apt-cache policy libtool lists both device repository and sdk repository, and version numbers are same. How to figure it out? Sep 07 07:27:00 disable sdk repo, apt-get update, apt-get install --reinstall libtool Sep 07 07:27:12 or even without --reinstall Sep 07 07:27:28 and as i said, you shouldnt use sdk repo on device Sep 07 07:27:58 From apt-cache show libtool, the MD5Sum matches the one in Extras repository. And yes, will disable SDK repository Sep 07 07:28:41 then most likely someone just grabbed sdk libtool and just upped it to extras-devel without checking patches and control Sep 07 07:29:37 Likely. Exactly same changelog Sep 07 07:30:47 But how did it go from extras-devel to extras... Sep 07 07:31:02 it needs only 10 people to push it through Sep 07 07:31:16 no testing team available Sep 07 07:34:36 Okay, posted a comment. Will the maintainer be notified, or should I email him? /looks like making xchat compile on-device requires taking care of libtool, first/ Sep 07 07:35:11 pity state of extras is most people who uploaded there just moved on Sep 07 07:35:17 and are not available Sep 07 07:35:46 and what's even worse, even maintainer changing requests are hanging around without action Sep 07 07:37:07 Well, if he still checks his ovi.com email... Also, could hope it's same person: http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=29784 Sep 07 07:37:29 that one could be active luckily Sep 07 12:26:57 yeah, nobody handling maintainer requests is a huge PITA Sep 07 12:27:29 possibly the emails don't reach anybody meanwhile Sep 07 12:27:52 who is responsible for extras and repos as a whole? Sep 07 12:28:24 good question. Finally Hildon foundation and Council Sep 07 12:29:05 good thing to solve for new council for a start Sep 07 12:29:27 i could offer myself as a maintaner requests maintainer Sep 07 12:31:07 I think mer.lin still handles extras account creation Sep 07 12:32:03 at least he took care of mine a year ago Sep 07 12:32:10 merlin1991: ping Sep 07 12:32:35 (s/account creation/extras upload privs/) Sep 07 12:54:26 there's http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/ which isn't about account creation Sep 07 12:55:34 and I'm going to grant maintainership for those 5 pending there Sep 07 12:56:20 Error 500 Sep 07 12:59:11 asked 6 times during last 3 weeks who's taking care. Sep 07 13:00:50 when somebody has concerns about one of those maintainership-approvals, they can revert it any time Sep 07 13:00:51 how about automated system which send email to current maintainer on requests for change, then after 3 times not responding in 2 weeks it automatically grants it to new user Sep 07 13:01:20 this *is not* about new users Sep 07 13:01:21 but if current maintainer clicks the link, request gets cleared Sep 07 13:01:43 new user as old user wanting take over package maintainership Sep 07 13:01:54 s/as /as in / Sep 07 13:01:54 KotCzarny meant: new user as in old user wanting take over package maintainership Sep 07 13:03:06 it could also get a blacklist of packages that would be excluded from this automatic changer Sep 07 13:04:17 or somebody invests 5% of the time needed to implement such stuff to simply manually check and process those 1 request per month Sep 07 13:04:53 0.5% Sep 07 13:04:55 as we currently see, there is no one at the moment Sep 07 13:05:03 so? Sep 07 13:05:46 no one for? Sep 07 13:06:02 for position of maintaining package maintainership requests Sep 07 13:14:01 warfare probably needs to update the mail aliases anyway soonish, maybe he could add a few council members to garage@maemo.org or whatever the relevant alias Sep 07 13:15:48 I bet a catchall for *@m.o would see a LOT of mail that doesn't get processed anymore since nobody got alias assigned Sep 07 13:17:01 I personally had ~ 10 aliases I handled before I asked for my complete removal from aliases list Sep 07 13:18:05 basically this all is council's job Sep 07 13:18:22 to assign responsibilities and track them Sep 07 13:18:26 are they paid? Sep 07 13:19:22 no, and nobody of users understands what they are really voting for in council elections. Sep 07 13:19:42 not even council candidates understand what's council's duties Sep 07 13:19:55 :) Sep 07 13:20:23 maybe it shouldnt be called council but head maemo team members Sep 07 13:21:43 who is the council? Sep 07 13:22:27 "who"? Sep 07 13:34:14 /topic Sep 07 13:34:53 my gosh, maemo.org down? Sep 07 13:35:48 ooh, only 60s until http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council loads Sep 07 13:36:21 awesome: Current: October 2014 - May 2015 Sep 07 13:43:08 hmm, load patterns as shown by monitor don't look too good Sep 07 14:03:16 Hi. I want to revive my N900 and use it as my main phone again. But I first want to wipe everything and start fresh. I remember I tried this a year ago but I ran into lots of problems, like the repositories not being available anymore etc. Does someone know a compact, up-to-date guide on how to setup the phone so that everything works? Sep 07 14:03:25 ~flashing Sep 07 14:03:26 well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh Sep 07 14:03:28 ~maemo-repos Sep 07 14:03:28 maemo-repos is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories Sep 07 14:04:33 # nokia is no more, anyone knows a mirror? Sep 07 14:04:46 oh diablo, not relevant. Sep 07 14:05:13 So we have to rely on an unofficial mirror these days? Sep 07 14:05:21 only for nokia closed binaries Sep 07 14:05:27 I see Sep 07 14:05:39 which are only required if you manage to break them Sep 07 14:06:04 just flash 1.3.1, optionally enable cssu and you are good Sep 07 14:15:15 shapeshifter: !!!!! \o/ WELCOME BACK!! :-))) Sep 07 14:15:25 DocScrutinizer05: sup :) Sep 07 14:15:40 I'm so sick of my Android cell... Sep 07 14:15:44 :> Sep 07 14:15:46 hehehehe Sep 07 14:16:12 shapeshifter: for easy replashing go for http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz Sep 07 14:16:28 then head to Sep 07 14:16:30 ~repos Sep 07 14:16:30 from memory, repos is "deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ ;; deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./", or see http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories Sep 07 14:16:35 it's still on the screen, pah Sep 07 14:16:44 then Sep 07 14:16:47 ~cssu Sep 07 14:16:47 i guess cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) Sep 07 14:17:01 this should leave you settled Sep 07 14:17:37 DocScrutinizer05: thanks. Sep 07 14:17:41 yw Sep 07 14:17:44 :) Sep 07 14:17:48 charging the battery now. I'll probably need a new one. Sep 07 14:18:01 quite possible Sep 07 14:18:11 luckily there's a nice test on the forums Sep 07 14:18:17 ...after a 5 years Sep 07 14:18:22 ~polarcell Sep 07 14:18:22 [polarcell] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390402445382 BL-5J Replacement Sep 07 14:18:26 just in case Sep 07 14:18:35 yup Sep 07 14:19:01 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 Sep 07 14:19:05 though I used to buy "used" ones in my next turkish cellphone shopee Sep 07 14:20:02 wow, that polarcell is cheap Sep 07 14:20:21 I once bought an original nokia battery. super expensive. Sep 07 14:20:32 but originals last a long time too Sep 07 14:20:40 alas I didn't mark the batteries I received over the years. So I must have a 70 batteries now, of which 55 or 60 are dead, and another 5 to 10 are very poor condition, and I can't say which is which Sep 07 14:20:40 at least they used to Sep 07 14:21:09 shapeshifter: don't spend more than 15 bucks for any battery! Sep 07 14:21:18 ...for N900 Sep 07 14:21:58 genuine original Nokia are expensive, when sold via official Nokia channels Sep 07 14:22:13 suuuper expensive Sep 07 14:22:19 and bl-5j have 1430 cap now Sep 07 14:22:22 like 40 EUR or somesuch iirc Sep 07 14:23:53 I gues a few of the cheap "genuine Nokia BL-5J" sold cheap on ebay etc are actually that, genuine Nokia (or ghostshift) Sep 07 14:24:53 Imagine if the neo900 project had stored donations in CHF in switzerland... Sep 07 14:25:08 hehe Sep 07 14:25:31 what a tragic impact the euro dip had on finances. Sep 07 14:25:34 meh, those donations are a feeble 4k USD iirc Sep 07 14:25:42 mh. Sep 07 14:26:06 honestly not really worth all the hassle they are doing about it Sep 07 14:26:52 particularly since *all* infra is donated and thus zilch recurring expense Sep 07 14:27:28 btw... Sep 07 14:27:54 warfare: did council/HiFo manage to negotiate contract extension with IPHH? Sep 07 14:28:21 is that even needed? Sep 07 14:28:51 how much did it dip? Sep 07 14:28:57 dip?` Sep 07 14:29:16 erlehmann: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=eur%20vs%20usd&meta=&gws_rd=ssl Sep 07 14:29:28 ooh Sep 07 14:29:51 erlehmann: used to be 1.30-1.40, now ~1.10 Sep 07 14:30:52 which had a very unfortunate impact on Neo900 calculations Sep 07 14:31:21 DocScrutinizer05 can you elaborate „very unfortunate impact“ ? Sep 07 14:31:21 for USD the price tag stayed stable basically Sep 07 14:31:34 EUR price rised by 30% Sep 07 14:31:44 even a tad more Sep 07 14:31:55 erlehmann: donations are kept in EUR. Chinese suppliers are paid in USD. Sep 07 14:32:06 top lel Sep 07 14:32:09 our early estimations were ~700, now we're at 990 Sep 07 14:32:30 well, transfer donations to USD asap? Sep 07 14:32:39 it's a bit late. Sep 07 14:32:44 no telling what the future holds Sep 07 14:33:04 EUR could even recuperate given that the china crash is pressing USD down. Sep 07 14:33:08 sure, transfer to the stronges currency always, then wait for that currency going down ;-) Sep 07 14:33:30 eu as a whole is in the hard times Sep 07 14:33:33 shapeshifter: exactly Sep 07 14:33:44 i see Sep 07 14:34:33 we received all payments in EUR, we will keep it like that, particularly now that EUR is weak and can only gain value Sep 07 14:34:45 not true Sep 07 14:34:54 it can dip more Sep 07 14:35:04 yes, can hapen too, but who knows Sep 07 14:35:19 europe has more and more problems pending Sep 07 14:35:29 US and China too Sep 07 14:35:33 DocScrutinizer05: Is there a tentative release date for the Neo900? Sep 07 14:35:41 q1/2016 Sep 07 14:35:41 ok Sep 07 14:36:10 It's amazing how hard and expensive it is to get this phone off the ground. Sep 07 14:36:21 yes Sep 07 14:36:36 not really, for 'us' few who did it before Sep 07 14:36:51 we knew what is waiting for us Sep 07 14:37:02 Plus I'm amazed that even after all the recent revelations, there doesn't seem to be a concious shift in perception of Android. I mean, there should be thousands of nerds around the world interested in an open phone, yet there is basically no activity, no support. Sep 07 14:37:19 those people are not *really* interested Sep 07 14:37:27 what I didn't expect was e.g. 3 months of fighting with prestashop, until we get a cheesy lil shoppee working Sep 07 14:37:41 I wonder for example how the fairphone managed to gain traction. I mean, they say "if you can't open it you don't own it" but of course that's only concerning the hardware, not the software. Sep 07 14:38:03 DocScrutinizer05: what were the major problems with prestashop? Sep 07 14:38:04 shapeshifter i have a friend who said he wanted an open phone, then i pointed him here, then he said it was too expensive. he then got a blackberry and after that, an iphone i think. Sep 07 14:38:06 go figure Sep 07 14:38:13 shapeshifter: http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm :-) Sep 07 14:38:28 erlehmann: well 1000 euros is a bit steep, especially considering the innards. Sep 07 14:39:10 shapeshifter it is, but OTOH there seems to be no comparable new phone. is there? Sep 07 14:39:23 erlehmann: nothing. Sep 07 14:39:25 shapeshifter: (prestashop) it's soooOOOooo WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! To edit text, you need to do that in *translations* Sep 07 14:39:35 n900 Sep 07 14:39:44 you never know in *which* translations Sep 07 14:40:05 it's a CMS nightmare Sep 07 14:40:43 DocScrutinizer05: I'm currently setting up a Spree shop. I wonder how hard it will be. So far... meh. Sep 07 14:41:07 creating custom shop is easy Sep 07 14:41:15 especially if your store isnt big Sep 07 14:41:26 * Wizzup wrote his own some time ago Sep 07 14:41:43 prolly would have been easier than that prestashop thing Sep 07 14:41:44 well that's hardly necessary though. Sep 07 14:41:52 yup, new revisions of ready made products are usually on the incompatible side Sep 07 14:41:59 DocScrutinizer05: which payment gateway are you using? Sep 07 14:42:11 bank wire, PP Sep 07 14:42:15 soon bitcoin Sep 07 14:43:46 shapeshifter: by any chance you are using n900 for music listening? Sep 07 14:44:19 KotCzarny: not much Sep 07 14:44:24 uhum Sep 07 14:44:36 i wont solicite then Sep 07 14:44:37 :) Sep 07 14:56:18 I remember I kept having a problem with my old N900 that it would says "no sim". I just googled a bit but I can't find a definitive fix. I remember something about pressing down on the PCB... Sep 07 14:56:28 um Sep 07 14:56:34 physical breakage Sep 07 14:56:49 but there is hope, you can have another n900 for a measly 40-50usd Sep 07 14:57:07 even cheaper if you can solder usb port Sep 07 14:57:14 then you can grab one really cheap Sep 07 14:57:39 and use old one for development test bed Sep 07 14:57:44 I have 2. I need to check if they both exhibit this problem. Sep 07 14:57:56 I preemptively soldered the USB on both Sep 07 15:05:07 Oksana: I can show you workarounds for stuff like the sb issues you mentioned. Sep 07 15:10:44 $ ip a # -sh: ip: not found Sep 07 15:10:53 a reminder how old maemo really is. Sep 07 15:13:45 Oksana: Are you looking for xchat 2.8.8? Sep 07 15:23:16 * stryngs builds xchat for the giggles Sep 07 15:27:01 Man I wish gcc 4.6 wasn't all crazy on the n900 =/ Sep 07 15:28:18 stryngs: why not cross compile on a 'real' machine? Sep 07 15:28:35 shapeshifter: I prefer to build natively. Sep 07 15:28:50 shapeshifter: I've taken a lot of care to ensure I can build natively on my box. Sep 07 15:29:43 shapeshifter: i.e., grabbed a lot of scratchbox stuff and ported it over, etc.. Very handy =) Sep 07 15:49:38 KotCzarny: how goes with 2nd N900? :) Sep 07 15:53:17 DocScrutinizer05: the versions used in your flash-it-all.sh, are those the most recent ones? Sep 07 15:54:03 sicelo: still in transit, should be there in 1-2 days Sep 07 15:54:59 shapeshifter: yes Sep 07 15:56:48 (on "most recent") Sep 07 15:58:59 shapeshifter: (no SIM) is usually a problem with modem chip solder points popping up when bending the PCB - e.g. due to pressing the kbd keys - and all the suggested mechanical fixes are not really a long term solution. hot-air reflowing the modem chips might help: heat the complete device to 100°C in oven, then apply 230°C hot air to the modem chips for 5 minutes Sep 07 15:59:25 250°C will prolly kill the device, so use decent tools Sep 07 16:00:24 well, maybe 5 minutes is a tad long. Try 2 minutes Sep 07 16:03:30 shapeshifter: personally I'd just suggest popping the back off, taking the sim out, and resitting it before you try something so extreme Sep 07 16:03:39 sometimes a bit of dirt just gets between the contacts for me Sep 07 16:03:50 But presumably you've already ruled that out :) Sep 07 16:04:53 thanks, I might try something like that. Sep 07 16:05:11 I need a hot air gun... Sep 07 16:07:35 by the way, how's maemo 5 holding up in terms of security? Digicert hack, heartbleed, shellshock - are things even patched? Sep 07 16:10:29 hehe, security and n900 used in one sentence Sep 07 16:10:35 good joke Sep 07 16:10:36 :) Sep 07 16:11:16 shapeshifter: well the good news is that I'm pretty sure that maemo's openssl is actually too old to be vulnerable to heartbleed Sep 07 16:11:22 yeah Sep 07 16:11:25 that i found funny Sep 07 16:11:25 ^ Sep 07 16:11:26 ^^ Sep 07 16:11:44 ^^^ Sep 07 16:11:51 vvv Sep 07 16:12:03 <<>> Sep 07 16:12:16 but yeah. and busybox means no shellshock. I think I remember some talk about removing the invalid CAs. Sep 07 16:13:00 still, we are running old kernel Sep 07 16:13:11 which means anything kernel related holds Sep 07 16:13:13 mhm Sep 07 16:16:44 DocScrutinizer05: why is your flasher called trasher? it's a joke? Sep 07 16:17:44 s Sep 07 16:17:48 oops. Sep 07 16:22:14 KotCzarny where to get new kernel Sep 07 16:24:01 shapeshifter: Maemo is very vuln. Sep 07 16:25:29 http://elinux.org/N900 Sep 07 16:25:38 but its not drop in replacement Sep 07 16:27:02 also, someone recently started another attempt at updated os Sep 07 16:27:08 i think it was wizzup Sep 07 16:27:16 How'd the neo900 thing go btw? Sep 07 16:27:27 (i'll do the same once my secondary n900 arrives) Sep 07 16:27:37 wish I had the money to pledge back when it was running its kickstarter :/ Sep 07 16:28:11 boo, maemo flasher is 32bit. Sep 07 16:28:24 shapeshifter what about 0xffff? Sep 07 16:28:30 install 32bit libs or boot livecd Sep 07 16:28:43 KotCzarny: yeah. Sep 07 16:29:10 * KotCzarny is still running 32bit linux Sep 07 16:29:14 KotCzarny: wow. Sep 07 16:29:15 no need to upgrade Sep 07 16:29:37 and easier to keep one version across all my machines Sep 07 16:39:05 shapeshifter: (trasher) I needed a name that not suspicious (to googling) Sep 07 16:39:17 thrasher Sep 07 16:39:46 shapeshifter: note that this is my private workdir not supposed to get shared to anybody else anyway Sep 07 16:39:49 ;-) Sep 07 16:39:52 you should add feature to flasher that it would play data on audio device during reflash Sep 07 16:40:04 similar to old modem sounds Sep 07 16:40:48 i tried touch.facebook.com in Qml-browser. Got: error on line 1 at column 715: Expected '#' or '[a-zA-Z]', but got '&'. Sep 07 16:40:59 DocScrutinizer05: yes, I saw the notice ;) Sep 07 16:46:15 everything is so old... flasher needs 32bit libusb-0.1.so4. The version provided by my distro is libusb-1.0... Sep 07 16:46:37 just symlinking doesn't work. symbol lookup errors. Sep 07 16:46:50 now I have to dig up an old libusb Sep 07 16:48:20 shapeshifter: libusb-1.0-0:i386 works just fine Sep 07 16:48:22 fyi Sep 07 16:49:54 stryngs: not for me... anyway I found an old lib and it appears to be working now. Sep 07 16:50:19 shapeshifter: Heh, what distro? Sep 07 16:50:27 shapeshifter: That doesnt "seem" right that it wouldnt work. Sep 07 16:51:29 stryngs: Arch. I don't know. I got /usr/lib32/libusb-1.0.so.0.1.0 giving me maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2/flasher-3.5: symbol lookup error: maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2/flasher-3.5: undefined symbol: usb_init Sep 07 16:52:10 shapeshifter: meh, arch... Sep 07 16:52:25 stryngs: it has hardly anything to do with the distro. Sep 07 16:52:34 shapeshifter: With Arch? hah. Sep 07 16:52:40 shapeshifter: I've heard nothing but bad bout arch Sep 07 16:53:05 shapeshifter: I'll stick with the red hats or fedoras or centos or ubuntu or linux mint's Sep 07 16:53:10 ok. Sep 07 16:53:30 shapeshifter: But, glad to hear u got it working Sep 07 16:55:23 wat. I just reflashed my N900 and now, suddenly, it knows the correct date after booting for the first time. >.> Sep 07 16:55:26 shapeshifter: you need libusb-0.1 Sep 07 16:55:28 I *always* had to set it manually Sep 07 16:55:36 what black magic is this. Sep 07 16:55:42 shapeshifter: it's weird like that Sep 07 16:55:49 sometimes I need to reset the date, sometimes not Sep 07 16:56:14 this is adorable, it's recommending the Ovi store "with hundreds of free apps and games". Sep 07 16:57:18 i just use ntpdate pool.ntp.org Sep 07 16:57:29 KotCzarny: no, that's different Sep 07 16:57:32 for ovi you need to enable muarf repo Sep 07 16:57:34 or do you mean you just hit accept? Sep 07 16:57:54 tekk_: i know, i disabled welcome sscreen and just run ntpdate occasionally Sep 07 16:58:01 ah Sep 07 16:58:16 why not use the checkbox that pulls the time from the cell network? Sep 07 16:58:40 cellular time never worked for me Sep 07 16:58:45 dont know why Sep 07 17:10:12 So the app manager doesn't get it when I just update /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list? Sep 07 17:10:27 go cssu and install speedyham Sep 07 17:10:31 ~speedyham Sep 07 17:10:31 speedyham is probably 30 times faster than HAM http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb Sep 07 17:10:57 if you dont want cssu, then ignore app manager and just stick to apt Sep 07 17:11:11 (just never do apt-get autoremove or upgrade) Sep 07 17:12:43 though you seem knowledgeable, so upgrade might be fine, distupgrade is tricky tho Sep 07 17:19:53 but yes, you need to adjust catalogs/repositories from HAM itself. Sep 07 17:20:08 ham sucks Sep 07 17:22:07 slowly sucks Sep 07 17:41:04 Any specific reasons why CSSU stable is 1y behind testing? Sep 07 17:41:20 no testers? Sep 07 17:41:23 no reports? Sep 07 17:41:34 no one nagged the devs to do the release? Sep 07 17:41:59 most of work is in devel anyway Sep 07 17:43:23 KotCzarny: in devel? Sep 07 17:43:26 yeah Sep 07 17:43:39 cssu-devel Sep 07 17:43:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84292 Sep 07 17:44:02 warning: dragons ahead Sep 07 17:45:22 manpower is one of the reasons Sep 07 17:45:33 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1477898&postcount=453 Sep 07 17:46:17 i remember discussions to drop stable .. not sure how far they went. Sep 07 17:46:24 o.O Sep 07 17:46:38 thats just crazy talk Sep 07 17:46:55 stable is for normal users that dont want untested things Sep 07 17:47:34 looks like most testing takes place in devel .. Sep 07 17:47:49 testing is already quite stable, in general Sep 07 17:47:51 so you're telling me that with that devel repo, people do apt-get upgrade? Sep 07 17:48:07 rename testing as stable then and drop testing Sep 07 17:48:17 :) Sep 07 17:48:25 KotCzarny: same thing .. just names. Sep 07 17:48:34 so yes, that's a possibility Sep 07 17:48:38 names are important for non-knowledgeable people Sep 07 17:49:56 shapeshifter: yes. why not? :) Sep 07 17:50:04 i've done it a couple of times Sep 07 17:51:02 last time i did .. got some getbootstate error (device behaving as if R&D mode is on). reported it, and problemo fixed Sep 07 17:56:07 hmm Sep 07 17:56:32 i wonder if there is a mod that would replace all images with 8bit ones in a browser/cache Sep 07 17:56:59 and make browser use 8bit buffers Sep 07 17:57:19 (for rendered pages) Sep 07 17:59:10 https://www.palemoon.org/ Sep 07 17:59:10 hum Sep 07 18:02:18 doh, cant wait for my secondary n900 Sep 07 18:02:24 its like getting the first one Sep 07 18:05:38 Any Gecko based browser works, you can set the amount of RAM which is allowed to be used to render websites in about:config. Sep 07 18:05:40 hum Sep 07 18:07:17 another hack would be limiting browser to only 1 page rendered at any given time Sep 07 18:13:49 http://www.netsurf-browser.org/about/ Sep 07 18:13:54 another competitor Sep 07 18:15:27 drat. 1-2days is a lot when one has to wait Sep 07 18:16:59 Is it not necessary anymore to move some stuff to /opt? Sep 07 18:17:07 it is Sep 07 18:17:28 but i plan on creating everything-in-one-partition os Sep 07 18:17:54 do df Sep 07 18:17:58 see space on / Sep 07 18:27:19 I see Sep 07 18:28:20 Is there a good reason why https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space#Move_apt_cache_outside_of_rootfs is advertised as a temporary fix? It would be trivial to permanently set the cache location in apt.conf Sep 07 18:31:18 remember that wiki information isnt any omega knowledge but users hacking their way Sep 07 18:31:30 i personally use: http://wiki.maemo.org/Slimming_OS Sep 07 18:32:01 best course of action is simply knowing what you are doing Sep 07 18:32:11 what you use, what you dont use etc Sep 07 18:33:36 as for your question, it uses -o option, which you can just put in /etc/apt config Sep 07 18:33:48 thats why it says 'temporary', as in one-off Sep 07 18:34:17 but i think apt-cache is already on /opt Sep 07 18:34:42 ls -l /var/apt/ Sep 07 18:35:04 (( looks like most testing takes place in devel .. )) no Sep 07 18:35:19 I see Sep 07 18:35:40 shapeshifter: NEVER do apt-get upgrade with maemo-devel! Sep 07 18:36:04 DocScrutinizer05: I'm just using cssu testing now Sep 07 18:36:09 actually s/with maemo-devel// Sep 07 18:37:46 shapeshifter: you're supposed to use maemo-extras-devel only to manually install certain packages, then immediately disable maemo-extras-devel again after you did Sep 07 18:38:24 I see. Sep 07 18:38:37 DocScrutinizer05: it's definitely not supposed to be that way .. but .. it does. many are on cssu-testing not for testing, but consider it stable quality. i'm not saying this is correct ... but that's the general feel you get when you see state of things in tmo Sep 07 18:41:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95911 poor fella Sep 07 18:56:39 What's going on the N900 these days? Sep 07 18:57:17 * juliank put it to rest in 2012 Sep 07 18:59:45 Sicelo: please don't mix maemo-extras-testing and cssu-testing Sep 07 19:00:37 cssu-devel is a complete nogo for anybody but the devels testing their own packaging there Sep 07 19:01:53 cssu-testing is supposed to be semi-satble but with the risk that stuff will break your device. Once it got tested in cssu-testing, it eventually migrates to cssu-stable, after some of the cssu maintainers discussed stability of the package Sep 07 19:03:37 maemo-extras-devel has a *lot* of packages, some good stable quality and some being real killers for your system. extras-testing is where a test crew of users checks packages that got promoted by their developers Sep 07 19:03:56 when a package passes testing, it promotrs to maemo-extras Sep 07 19:04:59 juliank: check oscp Sep 07 19:06:02 * Vajb wishes that he could get a dollar everytime he see's oscp mentioned ;) Sep 07 19:06:06 doc: no, when dev coerces 10 users to click on package promotion then it goes to maemo-extras Sep 07 19:06:29 vajb: i can do 1cent Sep 07 19:06:33 :) Sep 07 19:06:41 haha Sep 07 19:07:07 hmm now i need counter script :p Sep 07 19:07:29