**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 11 02:59:58 2015 Oct 11 07:18:17 ~flashing Oct 11 07:18:17 somebody said maemo-flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh Oct 11 09:48:28 hmm, got a device here that asks for lockcode *after* flashing Oct 11 09:48:47 :-S Oct 11 09:49:01 removing lock code is easy Oct 11 09:49:21 ~lockcode Oct 11 09:49:21 i heard lockcode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 Oct 11 09:49:57 ~factinfo lockcode Oct 11 09:49:58 lockcode -- created by Termana <~bradley@123-3-161-191.static.dsl.dodo.com.au> at Thu Oct 28 11:44:48 2010 (1808 days); it has been requested 12 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 36s ago. Oct 11 11:05:19 hmm, rescueOS is pretty convenient Oct 11 11:06:38 after finally telling network manager to STFU and leave alone the "modem"... Oct 11 11:06:42 jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> sudo /sbin/ifconfig enp0s29u1u8i8 up Oct 11 11:06:44 jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> sudo /sbin/ifconfig enp0s29u1u8i8 192.168.2.14 netmask 255.255.255.0 Oct 11 11:07:23 ((FSCK avahi, FSCK new udev, FSCK L.P.!) Oct 11 11:08:05 (do me a favor and try to memorize and type "enp0s29u1u8i8") Oct 11 11:08:47 jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> telnet -l user 192.168.2.15 Oct 11 11:08:49 Trying 192.168.2.15... Oct 11 11:08:50 Connected to 192.168.2.15. Oct 11 11:09:06 /rescueOS$ echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1) Oct 11 11:09:08 root:6sn86kTIscpP2 Oct 11 11:09:34 jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> sudo john -format:DES -i:digits old_maemo_lock_code Oct 11 11:09:35 Loaded 1 password hash (Traditional DES [128/128 BS SSE2-16]) Oct 11 11:09:37 10557 (root) Oct 11 11:09:38 guesses: 1 time: 0:00:00:00 c/s: 2479K trying: 12599 - 11468 Oct 11 11:12:29 http://paste.opensuse.org/47517621 Oct 11 11:13:47 DocScrutinizer05: is that horrible ethernet iface name on maemo? Oct 11 11:14:14 on plain stock RPM linux (suse) Oct 11 11:14:46 oh, "linux" Oct 11 11:14:52 I admit I didn't get around to uninstall that avahi crap Oct 11 11:15:11 pass net.ifnames=0 to fix the ethernet names Oct 11 11:16:00 pass it to the kernel args Oct 11 11:18:48 http://paste.opensuse.org/13463036 http://paste.opensuse.org/24784814 http://paste.opensuse.org/51947437 Oct 11 11:18:55 jon_y: thanks! Oct 11 11:19:47 as far as I know "predictable" naming is pretty random Oct 11 11:19:52 udev also started acting funny since a few years (since L.P. messed it up I guess) Oct 11 11:20:08 I'd rather ethernet names be referred by MAC address Oct 11 11:20:28 or even GUIDs like on Windows Oct 11 11:20:46 I would be perfectly happy with sth like ttyACM0 or sth Oct 11 11:21:23 or ethUSB0 Oct 11 11:21:25 or whatever Oct 11 11:22:24 what does enp0s29u1u8i8 even mean anyway Oct 11 11:22:36 is that your pci tree? Oct 11 11:22:51 nfc Oct 11 11:23:10 are you ex-NOK kernel jon_y? Oct 11 11:23:34 nope, I am working on the linux kernel for work Oct 11 11:24:00 :-) Oct 11 11:24:20 well everything on the desktop is somehow a PCI device Oct 11 11:24:39 even though there are no physcal PCI slots Oct 11 11:25:14 anyway, I guess I will prepare a "tiny" howto for rescueOS (which has a pretty flawed readme) and lockcode-unlocking Oct 11 11:26:31 does rescueOS support ipv6? Oct 11 11:27:44 e.g in rescueOS it recommends >>flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0<< which is missing trailing " to start with, but also the file isn't called initrd.img but rescueOS-1.0.img Oct 11 11:27:57 prolly not Oct 11 11:28:02 dunno Oct 11 11:28:21 ipv6 autoconfigured address is nice Oct 11 11:28:23 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/NIN101_N900_rescue_os/nin101.uni.cx/n900-new/206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ Oct 11 11:29:22 http://paste.opensuse.org/61440296 Oct 11 11:29:29 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/NIN101_N900_rescue_os/nin101.uni.cx/n900-new/206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/documentation.txt Oct 11 11:30:13 then missing: login root rootme Oct 11 11:30:50 (I was lucky to guess that one ;-D ) Oct 11 11:31:23 on 3rd try already Oct 11 11:32:41 then it could use a warning to get your glasses or magnifier lens to read the 3PT on N900 ;-) Oct 11 11:33:35 well, I guess that applies to old farts like me who can't read a newspaper closer than 1m from their eyes Oct 11 11:33:57 or people with vision impairments Oct 11 11:34:28 I *almost* can read rescueOS shell on N900 when looking at it from 80cm distance Oct 11 11:35:06 stuff like "root login on pts/1" I can guess Oct 11 11:35:35 doc, you are using old rescueos Oct 11 11:35:39 newest is 1.2 Oct 11 11:35:40 kernel timestamps however look like [$$$$$$$$$$$$] Oct 11 11:35:58 KotCzarny: I'm aware Oct 11 11:36:07 also, on normal linux (slackware) it's usb0 interface Oct 11 11:36:16 (and usb1 etc) Oct 11 11:36:25 even with kernel 4.2 and current udev Oct 11 11:36:25 your metrics of "normal" Oct 11 11:37:08 http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ Oct 11 11:37:14 "normal" nowadays means "infested by poetterisms and general system cabal crap" Oct 11 11:37:15 this is current one Oct 11 11:37:16 "normal" by hipster standards :V Oct 11 11:37:37 ~systemd Oct 11 11:37:37 systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd Oct 11 11:38:18 there was a april fools joke about forking glibc Oct 11 11:38:20 ~poettering Oct 11 11:38:21 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal Oct 11 11:38:25 I'm not so sure if it was a joke Oct 11 11:38:41 jon_y: i wouldnt be surprised Oct 11 11:38:44 ooooph, that's for sure no joke Oct 11 11:39:14 it's 100% in line with general poetterism Oct 11 11:39:16 I'll wait for the day when C++ makes it into systemd Oct 11 11:39:32 with glibc forked to use c++ with a "legacy C interface" Oct 11 11:39:36 thats too highlevel Oct 11 11:39:46 pssh, highlevel Oct 11 11:39:55 they put a DNS server in it Oct 11 11:39:56 DocScrutinizer05: what is flawed about rescueOS readme and which suggestions do you have to make it better? Oct 11 11:39:57 lets integrate systemd in efi or processors Oct 11 11:40:09 nin101: he was referring to the old file Oct 11 11:40:09 hi NIN101 :-) Oct 11 11:40:12 1.0 Oct 11 11:40:38 and thinking that falling back on google DNS is a good idea Oct 11 11:40:54 NIN101: see [2015-10-11 Sun 13:27:44] e.g in rescueOS it recommends >>flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0<< which is missing trailing " to start with, but also the file isn't called initrd.img but rescueOS-1.0.img [2015-10-11 Sun 13:30:13] then missing: login root rootme Oct 11 11:41:02 "but you have no DNS configured! Why not just use a well known DNS Server?" Oct 11 11:41:05 fuck that noise Oct 11 11:41:28 NIN101: but I used an old version Oct 11 11:41:31 there is no login on 1.2 Oct 11 11:41:36 boots to shell Oct 11 11:41:52 jon_y: OH YEAH 8.8.8.8 Oct 11 11:42:01 the idiocy of the century Oct 11 11:42:18 when there is no DNS, there is no DNS, don't jump to assumptions Oct 11 11:42:37 exactly Oct 11 11:42:52 but that's not what poettering and friends want linux to be Oct 11 11:43:14 they want it to act as the frankenstein monster of windows and macintosh Oct 11 11:43:37 windows was born to bring computing for computer illiterates Oct 11 11:43:41 with everything just handled by 'wizards' and smart daemons Oct 11 11:43:49 ie. idiots Oct 11 11:43:53 the curse of the "desktop OS" Oct 11 11:44:53 so I also heard network manager will screw up whatever preconfigure ethernet interface when it wakes up Oct 11 11:45:07 it does that already i think Oct 11 11:45:13 as if it owns everything Oct 11 11:45:17 I started to hate Poettering's work before I even knew there's a person called Poettering. I hated avahi and later PolypAudio and I thought "those are two piedces of crap they actually could be siblings" Oct 11 11:45:39 what does avahi do anyway? Oct 11 11:45:40 turned out they are Oct 11 11:45:52 "rendevouz" Oct 11 11:45:56 ~wiki avahi Oct 11 11:45:59 At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{wiktionarypar|avahi}} 'Avahi' may refer to: * "Avahi" (genus), a genus of woolly lemurs, which are primates that inhabit Madagascar. * Avahi (software), a zeroconf networking implementation. " Oct 11 11:46:04 upnp? Oct 11 11:46:12 more than that Oct 11 11:46:12 oh zeroconf Oct 11 11:46:16 zeroconf Oct 11 11:46:18 fuck you zcnf Oct 11 11:46:23 yes!!! Oct 11 11:46:36 use ipv6 like a red blooded man Oct 11 11:47:37 it eas a maybe 10 years ago, I spent a whole afternoon to find out it was avahi who fucked up a perfectly working heterogeneous network Oct 11 11:48:00 this was my first encounter with poetterisms Oct 11 11:48:23 there I learned to hate all the stuff this guy forces into linux Oct 11 11:48:41 how come it gets accepted as a requirement? Oct 11 11:49:15 KotCzarny: becase "Desktop OS" nonsense Oct 11 11:49:46 ie. 'i cant configure my system and i need some automatic things that would do the magic for me' ? Oct 11 11:50:02 yes Oct 11 11:50:25 learn to ping ff02::1, no need to zeroconf Oct 11 11:50:35 hehe Oct 11 11:50:37 :) Oct 11 11:51:02 learn about /etc/hosts (or whatever the equiv name on windows) Oct 11 11:51:17 windoze stack is based on bsd's one Oct 11 11:51:24 C:\Windows\System32\drivers\hosts Oct 11 11:51:30 nope Oct 11 11:51:34 nobody needs avahi to configure a LAN with 5 clients Oct 11 11:51:41 its in c:\windows\system32\config\etc\hosts or something Oct 11 11:51:42 KotCzarny: crazy modified BSD Oct 11 11:52:25 /cgd/c/WINDOWS/system32/drivers/etc/hosts Oct 11 11:52:31 we both were close, hehe Oct 11 11:53:11 yeah C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts Oct 11 11:53:44 well, Windows networking isn't exactly BSD compatible Oct 11 11:53:55 also, most home networks have router with dhcpd anyway Oct 11 11:53:59 so no need for zeroconf Oct 11 11:54:10 read/write won't work on network sockets Oct 11 11:54:23 since they are implemented entirely on different subsystems Oct 11 11:54:48 the windows "C Library" isn't networking aware at all Oct 11 11:55:06 "The Internet? We don't need that!" Oct 11 11:55:13 even on modern Windows Oct 11 11:55:32 networking is implemented on top of win32 APIs Oct 11 11:55:50 they have .net, you know, people shouldnt be bothered by some pesky low level calls Oct 11 11:56:13 except that now you have no access to low level calls Oct 11 11:56:28 and your networking stack is more shit now Oct 11 11:56:35 no raw sockets etc Oct 11 11:58:10 it's noteworthy that by todays standards it's incorrect to claim "maemo is debian based" - in fact it's now devuan-based rather than debian Oct 11 11:58:47 its debian(2009) based Oct 11 11:58:49 IOW devuan is now what debian was before it turned to the dark side Oct 11 11:59:03 It's not even based on Debian from 2009. Oct 11 11:59:14 also, nokia did few "desktop os" things to it Oct 11 11:59:15 The core packages are completely independent of the Debian system. Oct 11 11:59:18 it's based on debian from 2005 or something Oct 11 11:59:23 It's not. Oct 11 11:59:27 it is Oct 11 11:59:43 The people at Nokia/Trolltech/whatever put together the core packages themselves, they're not from the Debian project. Oct 11 11:59:47 no matter how often you quote changelogs Oct 11 11:59:59 BWAHAHAHA Oct 11 12:00:32 suuuure, Nokia invented their own libc Oct 11 12:01:09 No. It's still using glibc, just as Debian, Gentoo, ArchLinux, etc do. Oct 11 12:01:22 but like all of those, Nokia put together their own source package for it. Oct 11 12:01:31 it doesn't come from Debian. Oct 11 12:01:43 so what? that is what every distro does Oct 11 12:01:52 Ubuntu doesn't. Oct 11 12:01:57 aha! Oct 11 12:02:05 Ubuntu just uses a fork of Debian's distribution. Oct 11 12:02:34 we been there and you failed to grok that ubuntu isn't even linux, according to *your* arguments and rationale Oct 11 12:03:04 Ubuntu is pretty alien to me alright Oct 11 12:03:08 No. We've been there and you've shown that you're simply silly. Oct 11 12:03:14 even after using Linux close to a decade Oct 11 12:03:23 ok, it all matters, did they use debian based distro then modified, or just used debian packaging tools and packaged things themselves Oct 11 12:03:36 KotCzarny: the latter. Oct 11 12:04:09 I'm not completely sure about that either Oct 11 12:04:25 You can check by doing things like `apt-get source libc` Oct 11 12:04:33 and? Oct 11 12:04:38 The changelog just has a few entries from some people at Nokia. Oct 11 12:04:46 again CHANGELOG Oct 11 12:04:52 fuck the changelog! Oct 11 12:05:17 nobody writes Changelogs anymore :) Oct 11 12:05:21 i do Oct 11 12:05:24 :) Oct 11 12:05:25 this is not linux since it has no changelog reaching back to minix Oct 11 12:05:25 use git log instead Oct 11 12:05:33 You basically have to write a changelog in Debian packages afaict. Oct 11 12:05:45 It's part of the formal format. Oct 11 12:05:53 so what? Oct 11 12:06:01 when logs become mandatory, it will read "banana banana banana: Oct 11 12:06:05 " Oct 11 12:06:15 and: "another banana nana" Oct 11 12:06:38 when I import a source and check it in to my own git, you say it's not linux anymore since it lacks changelog history Oct 11 12:07:31 DocScrutinizer05: if you have evidence that they copied the Debian distribution of glibc, you can show it if you want. Oct 11 12:07:42 Maxdamantus: you constantly bitch over changelog but fail to prove that Nokia maemo sources are actually _not_ a simple fork of debian Oct 11 12:07:53 DocScrutinizer05: afaict, they just started with the GNU distribution. Oct 11 12:07:57 they have their own patches Oct 11 12:08:45 bencoh: sure they do, that's why they made maemo Oct 11 12:08:50 (like the memcopy/neon implem that was merged later) Oct 11 12:09:09 bencoh, yes, but in the start, did they took some already made os and hacked it, or pieced things together one by one Oct 11 12:09:42 that however doesn't mean maemo is based on RTos or some weird shit Nokia invented. It's clearly based on debian Oct 11 12:09:58 Symbian OS :) Oct 11 12:10:24 proof: people use glibc patches from upstream Oct 11 12:10:59 as far as I can tell, they took a plateform, replaced (and/or patched ) a lot of things (including core packages) and added their own layers on top Oct 11 12:11:25 Which things did they keep? Oct 11 12:11:31 if maemo glibc was actually "invented by Nokia" like Maxdamantus claims, those patches never could fit Oct 11 12:11:46 DocScrutinizer05: I've never claimed that. Stop being ridiculous. Oct 11 12:12:02 If DocScrutinizer05 stops beating his wife, he'd be a better person. Oct 11 12:12:07 +1 Oct 11 12:12:28 wtf Oct 11 12:12:36 wtf both of you. Oct 11 12:13:15 DocScrutinizer05: the right reply is "wife beating is legal in my district" as the kick message :) Oct 11 12:13:29 :-D Oct 11 12:13:37 >_< Oct 11 12:13:38 district 11 Oct 11 12:13:55 s/leagl/mandatory/ Oct 11 12:18:32 it's quite obvious and undisputed that maemo5 is based on mameo4 which is based on maemo3... Oct 11 12:19:07 Indeed, the changelogs for the core packages go back to 2006. Oct 11 12:19:46 as opposed to 1997 or something, when the Debian packages started. Oct 11 12:20:24 why would debian be a milestone? they based on slackware iirc Oct 11 12:21:06 so debian isn't linux since they don't have changelogs explaining what they copied? Oct 11 12:21:11 Because the Debian project is what created the Debian packages. Oct 11 12:21:32 and maemo is what created the maemo packages Oct 11 12:21:42 Exactly. You've got it. Oct 11 12:21:45 that's an extremely silly argument Oct 11 12:23:00 At least it is an argument. I'm not sure what yours is. Oct 11 12:23:40 "Debian is Gentoo and Gentoo is GNU, which is also Linus Torvalds and Maemo" Oct 11 12:23:47 well, stick with your definition of "is based on". I'm not interested, and I guess 99% of maemo users aren't either Oct 11 12:24:21 It's important because it's the reason you can't just install Debian packages on Maemo. Oct 11 12:24:32 aha, I can Oct 11 12:24:33 Even if you go back to Debian from 2006. Oct 11 12:25:32 You're probably either doing something other than "installing Debian packages on Maemo", or you're doing something that will easily induce incompatibility. Oct 11 12:25:58 * Maxdamantus sleeps. Oct 11 12:26:01 not intereested Oct 11 12:26:16 Of course not. That's why you don't get into these arguments. Oct 11 12:26:41 isn't it *you* who always starts this nonsense shit? Oct 11 12:27:33 common sense is: maemo is based on debian. You like to disagree, we have all heard this. Now please keep it at that Oct 11 12:29:27 if you have something *contructive* to contribute that actually points out problems maemo users/debels may run into, and you did proper investigation on how to *solve* those problems, please speak up. Otherwise I don't see what's your point, other than trolling Oct 11 12:30:14 maemo is based on debian like ubuntu is based on debian Oct 11 12:30:22 exactly Oct 11 12:30:34 and you can't necessarily expect to install a debian package on ubuntu or viceversa and have it work flawlessly Oct 11 12:30:57 not all of them, but quite a few will work nevertheless Oct 11 12:31:17 well, not expected to work, ymmv Oct 11 12:31:32 not expected, ok Oct 11 12:32:06 nevertheless I even installed binaries from ubuntu on OpenSuse and they worked Oct 11 12:32:20 again ymmv Oct 11 12:32:24 sure Oct 11 12:32:34 as long as they use the same ABI, it would work Oct 11 12:32:38 but no guarantees Oct 11 12:32:44 :nod: Oct 11 12:32:56 which we dont (hf vs sf) Oct 11 12:33:17 like using a different bullet for your different chambered guns :) Oct 11 12:33:23 the term "based on" is not very clearly defined, and obviously everybody implies other properties that shall come with it Oct 11 12:33:33 kind of work, but might explode the chamber instead Oct 11 12:34:40 heh, you can claim grub is based on DOS, since it boots on x86 too Oct 11 12:35:05 soinstead of fighting battles about whether Y is based on X, we rather should discuss properties and problems of Y Oct 11 12:36:52 e.g. "patches for X also apply to Y, unless the patches subsystem is unique to Y" would be such a topic that _really_ sheds some light on the topic. Particularly when listing the incompatible subsystems Oct 11 12:38:54 e.g. nobody will doubt debian recent is based on debian_3_y_o, yet you can't expect old stuff to run on new debian Oct 11 12:39:34 and for sure you can't expect new stuff to run on old debian Oct 11 12:40:16 so "based on" is prolly a rather useless classification Oct 11 12:40:27 all those arguments are silly, all that matters in linux is kernel abi and compatible libs Oct 11 12:40:53 and lately systemd and (un)friends mad another distinction Oct 11 12:41:12 *made Oct 11 12:41:26 what matters is: devuan packages have an almost 100% chance to run on maemo OOTB (after compiling them in scratchbox). This however does NOT apply for recent debian packages anymore Oct 11 12:41:52 you wont run debian packages compiled with glibc newer than 2.5 Oct 11 12:41:57 missing symbols etc Oct 11 12:42:20 please re-read Oct 11 12:42:34 hmm Oct 11 12:42:47 dependencies? Oct 11 12:42:54 recompiled Oct 11 12:42:55 or different packaging tools? Oct 11 12:43:52 systemd? Oct 11 12:44:12 so, for example, i cant use any package? Oct 11 12:44:17 even ntpdate? Oct 11 12:44:40 oh right systemd expects /bin and /usr/bin to be on the same volume Oct 11 12:44:54 ntpdate recently got assimilated by systemd. No? Then it will be next month Oct 11 12:44:59 works if you have a giant partition setuo Oct 11 12:45:02 *setup Oct 11 12:45:28 sudo already kind of got assimilated Oct 11 12:45:40 hehe, i've read 'assassinated' Oct 11 12:45:42 * jon_y uses su anyway Oct 11 12:46:07 none of that docker container nonsense Oct 11 12:48:02 meh, fuck linux Oct 11 12:48:05 * kerio recently moved to freebsd Oct 11 12:48:20 * kerio will not move back Oct 11 12:48:47 kerio: you allow systemd cabal to steal linux and run with it? Oct 11 12:48:58 well Oct 11 12:49:11 at some point the realization that freebsd has always been better than linux hit me Oct 11 12:49:27 hmm, can't argue that Oct 11 12:49:34 might be right Oct 11 12:49:58 freeBSD is nice, but I will only move it goes GPLv3+ :) Oct 11 12:49:58 it might just be the fun of using something new, mind you Oct 11 12:50:32 well, I actually like the gnu userland Oct 11 12:50:52 and proper driver support Oct 11 12:52:20 for sure *BSD are the "better" UNIX Oct 11 12:52:33 freebsd is nice, but isnt suitable for personal os much Oct 11 12:53:21 yeah, openbsd is a lot better, it's got X preinstalled :> Oct 11 12:53:43 ratings like "better" are again sth very fuzzy and need specification which properties are used for evaluation Oct 11 12:54:11 also, freebsd has zfs Oct 11 12:54:18 literally anything else pales in comparisong Oct 11 12:54:20 *comparison Oct 11 12:54:23 :)_ Oct 11 12:54:30 yeah Oct 11 12:54:30 (as long as you can actually use your drives) Oct 11 12:55:04 "it's better *since*..." is arguing the wrong way around. 1. define what's important for you, 2. evaluate which OS fulfills those requirements best Oct 11 12:55:29 1/ hardware support (ie. graphics card, peripherials etc) Oct 11 12:55:51 i know, you can use vesa with almost anything Oct 11 12:55:59 but it's a bit of pain Oct 11 12:59:34 for me the requirements are: a) fully open and tangible by user, based on UNIX principles b) userbase as huge as possible -- a) rules out redmond crap, b) leaves linux Oct 11 12:59:56 btw a) also rules out poetterux Oct 11 13:00:42 aka lennux Oct 11 13:01:16 it's a shame I'm still on OpenSuse Oct 11 13:02:22 i've tried suse once Oct 11 13:02:35 i dont remember if i even finished installing Oct 11 13:03:02 well, I'm lazy and don't ever even upgrade lightly. And I don't want to switch to XY now, only to learn in 6 months that it also went poettering Oct 11 13:03:08 so I wait for devuan Oct 11 13:03:40 how could you abort installation? Oct 11 13:03:57 it's pretty much a one-click thing Oct 11 13:03:59 i just got fed with it and installed something else Oct 11 13:04:12 mind you, it was suse, not opensuse Oct 11 13:04:16 (long time ago) Oct 11 13:04:21 DocScrutinizer05: install freebsd! Oct 11 13:04:25 it's fun Oct 11 13:04:33 and really quick Oct 11 13:04:34 DocScrutinizer05: you can already use devuan now Oct 11 13:04:40 too small userbase to warrant decent support Oct 11 13:04:56 erm, freebsd is quite popular Oct 11 13:05:02 just not with desktop lusers Oct 11 13:05:24 well, this is a workstation, not a server or some toy Oct 11 13:05:36 freebsd is not a toy os Oct 11 13:05:45 for some it is Oct 11 13:05:46 it can be used as a desktop os Oct 11 13:06:49 and while I usually find a linux version of proprietary tools I need, I hardly ever seen any commercial company offering those tools in a *BSD variant Oct 11 13:07:09 s/usually/sometimes, when lucky,/ Oct 11 13:07:10 DocScrutinizer05 meant: and while I sometimes, when lucky, find a linux version of proprietary tools I need, I hardly ever seen any commercial company offering those tools in a *BSD variant Oct 11 13:07:15 you can use linux binaries in freebsd Oct 11 13:07:24 (i think it has some compatibility) Oct 11 13:07:41 hardly Oct 11 13:08:30 FreeBSD provides 32-bit binary compatibility with Linux®, allowing users to install and run most 32-bit Linux® binaries on a FreeBSD system without having to first modify the binary. It has even been reported that, in some situations, 32-bit Linux® binaries perform better on FreeBSD than they do on Linux®. Oct 11 13:08:31 However, some Linux®-specific operating system features are not supported under FreeBSD. For example, Linux® binaries will not work on FreeBSD if they overly use i386™ specific calls, such as enabling virtual 8086 mode. In addition, 64-bit Linux® binaries are not supported at this time Oct 11 13:08:38 https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html Oct 11 13:08:59 I had lots of fun 2 weeks ago with installing a tool made for ubuntu linux on my OpenSuse. I don't think I'd be anywhere now when I had tried to install same tool under freeBSD Oct 11 13:09:00 the linux emulator is very limited Oct 11 13:09:16 DocScrutinizer05: you could be surprised actually Oct 11 13:10:41 I got no time to play with that. As mentioned this is a workstation, not a toy Oct 11 13:12:01 if you want to give it a try, for the laugh: http://www.silego.com/softdoc/software.html Oct 11 13:14:20 Graphics RAM: 128MB Oct 11 13:14:25 hehe Oct 11 13:14:31 (requirements) Oct 11 13:14:48 hm? Oct 11 13:15:00 does it use opengl for somerendering or what? Oct 11 13:15:10 nfc Oct 11 13:15:27 it's using Qt afaik Oct 11 13:15:55 maybe it's qt reqs then Oct 11 13:16:09 you could run the windows version in wine :> Oct 11 13:17:07 THAT I didn't try yet. Tried virtualbox etc (where the 128MB video requirement was a helpful info) but in the end gave up on it and ran it generically Oct 11 13:17:17 err genuine Oct 11 13:17:29 they've got bhyve now (freebsd) <3 Oct 11 13:17:52 it still segfaults on file requester open, for "open..." and "save as..." etc Oct 11 13:17:59 (kvm was the main reason I went linux some years ago) Oct 11 13:18:15 blame Qt Oct 11 13:18:57 dunno why those suckers didn't link statically Oct 11 13:20:22 anyway `GP3 ` works now, as does "save" Oct 11 13:20:33 just the dang file requesters... :-S Oct 11 13:21:34 you can always run with older libs by pointing to them via LD_LIBRARY+PATH Oct 11 13:21:40 LD_LIBRARY_PATH Oct 11 13:22:02 which usually solves libs incompatibility Oct 11 13:26:15 http://paste.opensuse.org/98590280 Oct 11 13:26:46 it seems like this stuff needs _newer_ libraries though Oct 11 13:27:15 I had quite some fun installing a buttload of Qt libs Oct 11 13:27:30 and one of them obviously acts up Oct 11 13:28:03 tried that LD_LIBRARY_PATH stuff, didn't help much Oct 11 13:29:13 but in the end iirc the major fly in the ointment was permissions to access USB Oct 11 13:30:50 somehow I fixed that the unix way, prolly by adding GP3 to a group that may access USB device Oct 11 13:31:30 or I brute force tweaked the permissions of /dev/usb Oct 11 13:33:09 http://paste.opensuse.org/83015496 Oct 11 13:35:41 krhrhrhr Oct 11 13:35:43 saturn:~ # lsof 2>/dev/null |grep GP3|wc -l Oct 11 13:35:44 1046 Oct 11 13:36:24 and BT again enabled >:-( Oct 11 13:39:59 btw the first pastebin above is about GP3 silently dieing when clicking on "open..." Oct 11 13:43:45 DocScrutinizer05: virtualbox is the worst one i guess... Oct 11 13:44:56 depends on your needs Oct 11 13:44:57 dunno. I finally made it run in a VM but the problems were all the same Oct 11 13:45:23 used vagrant Oct 11 13:45:48 but i hear the bsd maybe in near future will support kvm when that happen will be great... Oct 11 13:45:52 which in turn didn't give me direct full access over USB and no X window either Oct 11 13:46:39 didn't want to install XEN, since despite it works great, it messes up my host's network config with nasty bridges Oct 11 13:47:03