**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 01 02:59:58 2015 Nov 01 03:07:02 KotCzarny: Having loads of fun with pygtk dude :) Nov 01 08:54:11 jack64: yeah, its quite easy to write full featured app in pygtk, but mind you, if you need frequent updates its a bit on the slower side Nov 01 11:45:24 cheers :) Nov 01 11:45:42 can someone tell me what the difference is between cssu and the normal repositories? :) Nov 01 11:47:57 define "normal" Nov 01 11:54:47 sixwheeledbeast^: extras, extras-testing, extras-devel :) Nov 01 11:55:17 cssu has no relation then Nov 01 11:55:38 ~extras Nov 01 11:55:39 extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Nov 01 11:56:18 but they both show up as repositories Nov 01 11:57:08 yes cssu is community system updates, like the Nokia SSU repo. Nov 01 11:57:28 ~ssu Nov 01 11:57:29 hmm... ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU aka Seamless Software Update Nov 01 11:57:55 ahhh, so they are used for system specific stuff whereas extra/community is extensions? Nov 01 12:01:35 kindof, yeah Nov 01 12:03:01 packages going in cssu either replace stock packages or are needed for packages replacing stock stuff Nov 01 12:12:20 yer, think. Optional for Extras and Important/Required for SSU packages. In terms of Debian priority policy. Nov 01 14:26:14 extras is user contributed software, cssu is maintained by a cssu group Nov 01 14:26:24 cssu mainly updates system packages Nov 01 14:26:40 extras packages can contain malware, cssu i produced by trusted group Nov 01 14:31:10 lol Nov 01 14:31:19 s/i/is/ Nov 01 14:31:19 KotCzarny meant: extras packages can contaisn malware, cssu i produced by trusted group Nov 01 14:31:21 :) Nov 01 14:31:32 s/ i / is / Nov 01 14:32:43 not sure about your definition Nov 01 14:33:25 anyone can put a package into extras*, selected people can put a package/update to cssu, right? Nov 01 14:34:50 right Nov 01 14:35:38 even though you need to ask for upload rights to extras Nov 01 14:36:25 do i? Nov 01 14:38:53 i'd say cssu is about updating core system packages (those that are updateable, or reverse-engineerable). the different extras-* are for what the name says .. extra packages that enhance user experience, but are not core applications. there will also be some overlap between extras and cssu (nicocam is an example) when an extras package is considered good enough to replace a stock package Nov 01 14:39:56 one could think cssu as nokia's ssu (system updates) continuation, and extras as user contributed software Nov 01 14:40:00 CSSU is basically what we would be expecting Nokia to provide if N900 was still officialy supported Nov 01 14:40:04 yes Nov 01 14:44:33 hm, what are some of the biggest things the n900 could do thanks to the community apart from root, overclocking, hd video recording and thumb2 assembly hack? Nov 01 14:45:40 i don't remember them all anymore and would like to give a comprehensive list that has been done thanks to the community :) Nov 01 14:45:59 oh right, full on debian :D Nov 01 14:46:33 brain scanner Nov 01 14:46:37 :) Nov 01 14:46:52 um Nov 01 14:47:00 basically anything linux machine can Nov 01 14:47:23 Sicelo: i sadly cannot get the reference article without registering on the website :( Nov 01 14:47:25 limited by hardware (memory, cpu, drivers) Nov 01 14:47:42 true but for a mobile OS some of the stuff was revolutionary Nov 01 14:47:46 indeed Nov 01 14:47:48 mvaenskae: check youtube .. maybe the video still available Nov 01 14:48:00 mvaenskae: usb host mode Nov 01 14:48:10 was it true usb host mode? Nov 01 14:48:14 for me its the ability to write an app that works on my pc and my n900 without rewriting from scratch Nov 01 14:48:15 ...kinda Nov 01 14:48:19 ~hen Nov 01 14:48:21 and was that thanks to maemo itself? Nov 01 14:48:23 ~ping Nov 01 14:48:27 it *was* missing some hardware, so you needed to enumerate the usb device manually Nov 01 14:48:28 hen is, like, hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode Nov 01 14:48:29 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss Nov 01 14:48:39 KotCzarny: indeed, i totally forgot that feature! Nov 01 14:48:45 it was true usb except inability to detected the speed of connected device Nov 01 14:48:48 KotCzarny: thanks for explicitly stating that :) Nov 01 14:48:50 but you could attach a usb hub and have the peripherals attached to it work automatically Nov 01 14:49:08 it was better USB host that OTG .. Nov 01 14:49:23 *thank Nov 01 14:49:24 thanks then for usb host mode :) i assumed it was "common" but back in the day true Nov 01 14:49:25 mean Nov 01 14:49:45 nokia said its impossible, joerg proved otherwise using ugly hack Nov 01 14:49:51 (hostmode) Nov 01 14:50:41 lol.. you're missing the point mvaenskae. the "common" usb host mode is not as useful as N900 version Nov 01 14:50:56 Sicelo: that's just because of software support, not hardware Nov 01 14:51:11 KotCzarny: you're polish? Nov 01 14:51:14 ? Nov 01 14:51:15 usb otg would work better than the vboost hack Nov 01 14:51:19 Sicelo: i have to think back a few years ;) i am a bit damaged by android :D Nov 01 14:51:34 Ashley: yes, i'm from .pl Nov 01 14:51:36 unless i'm missing something Nov 01 14:51:51 not sure what you're talking about, so can't say Nov 01 14:52:05 KotCzarny: nice, I am from lower silesia Nov 01 14:52:21 Ashley: does it matter in any way? :) Nov 01 14:53:10 mvaenskae: pentesting too Nov 01 14:54:31 Sicelo: i knew starting to list things would help me hit my word limit of 750 words way too quickly Nov 01 14:54:39 hehe Nov 01 14:54:42 i think it needs to be mentioned as well though Nov 01 14:54:52 indeed that was not such an easy thing back then Nov 01 14:54:56 make the paper people actually wanting open software Nov 01 14:55:07 it is a foss course ;) Nov 01 14:55:38 i was insisting on covering maemo because it holds a special place in my heart <3 Nov 01 14:55:59 even though i dislike binary blobs maemo is one of the very few exceptions :) Nov 01 14:58:03 the n900 holds a special place in my heart even though linux sucks Nov 01 14:58:09 :) Nov 01 14:58:18 but it sucks much less than alternatives Nov 01 14:58:23 nuh uh Nov 01 14:58:32 uh-um Nov 01 14:58:33 any bsd > linux Nov 01 14:58:42 i have yet to see bsd phone Nov 01 14:59:28 well, there's a weird fruit company that makes one Nov 01 14:59:32 :> Nov 01 14:59:37 thats not bsd Nov 01 14:59:48 that's beesdenstein Nov 01 14:59:58 with heavy makeup Nov 01 15:00:31 but yea, no phones with a unix desktop other than the n900 Nov 01 15:00:42 i wonder what's the netbsd support like Nov 01 15:00:44 unix-like Nov 01 15:01:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop Nov 01 15:01:29 wow Nov 01 15:01:44 two thousands and TWO? Nov 01 15:01:45 wow Nov 01 15:02:18 produced by Danger Incorporated (since 2008, a subsidiary of Microsoft) from 2002 to 2010. Nov 01 15:02:22 he he Nov 01 15:02:40 wonder if its the reason its no more Nov 01 15:02:43 yeah but does it run netbsd or does it "run" netbsd? Nov 01 15:03:09 the n900 "runs" a lot more things than it runs Nov 01 15:04:12 Hiptop operating system, referred to as DangerOS, is largely based on Java Nov 01 15:04:13 lol Nov 01 15:04:19 danger indeed Nov 01 15:04:24 so kind of netbsd droid Nov 01 15:05:45 i should really figure out how to run netbsd on my sheevaplug Nov 01 15:05:58 i really don't know how to migrate the data i have on my external drive, however Nov 01 15:06:08 it's a single 1tb ext4 partition Nov 01 15:06:40 i made me nas from microitx via-c7 board Nov 01 15:07:31 sadly arm is a tier 2 architecture for freebsd Nov 01 15:08:21 the world needs more zfs Nov 01 15:08:26 and also more ram Nov 01 15:08:36 or optimized apps Nov 01 15:08:51 we had 16MB in 1997 and we were happy Nov 01 15:09:16 zfs is very optimized Nov 01 15:09:17 32MB was a lot Nov 01 15:09:29 it's just optimized towards the side of USING A GINORMOUS AMOUNT OF RAM Nov 01 15:09:54 for good reasons, mind you Nov 01 15:10:05 if you keep everything in ram then just use ramdisk with fat :P Nov 01 15:10:13 i see you've never used zfs Nov 01 15:10:30 played a bit with fuse-zfs Nov 01 15:10:38 eeeeeeeeeh Nov 01 15:10:39 pity it was unstable Nov 01 15:10:58 and we wont see zfs on anything unlicensed Nov 01 15:11:08 so, sorry Nov 01 15:11:41 freebsd has no problems with it \_o_/ Nov 01 15:11:57 i wish i had enough ram to run it in dedup mode Nov 01 15:12:16 i only have 32gb on my server Nov 01 15:12:46 http://zfsonlinux.org/ Nov 01 15:14:19 This work was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States Government. Neither the United States Government nor Lawrence Livermore National Security, LLC nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately-own Nov 01 15:16:56 mvaenskae: raven/cleven and wireless injection, fcamera for a raw, hackable camera framework Nov 01 15:18:07 support for stylus pressure? Nov 01 15:18:14 i dunno, i Nov 01 15:18:31 resistive screen supports pressure? Nov 01 15:18:35 have never used n900 without cssu Nov 01 15:18:39 KotCzarny: yep Nov 01 15:18:43 KotCzarny: capacitive doesnt Nov 01 15:18:54 KotCzarny: you can use pressure in mypaint on n900 for example Nov 01 15:18:58 uhum Nov 01 15:19:04 I read somewhere that Sun deliberately chose a license for OpenSolaris that was not GPL compatible to prevent Linux being able to use ZFS Nov 01 15:19:11 KotCzarny: deevad used to draw things on n900 Nov 01 15:19:59 what's so good about it? (zfs) Nov 01 15:20:24 sicelo, zfs is very well designed Nov 01 15:20:57 what does it bring the end user? :) Nov 01 15:21:12 um, anything you could ever wanted from a filesystem Nov 01 15:21:37 on-the-fly comprression? otf checksumming? otf encryption? all check Nov 01 15:21:45 online snapshots? check Nov 01 15:21:55 and much more Nov 01 15:22:13 it can be dynamically extended Nov 01 15:22:20 Sicelo: pretty much everything you can do with LVM, but at filesystem level Nov 01 15:22:21 it you can add disks to it online Nov 01 15:22:26 (and remove too i think) Nov 01 15:23:16 i'll read up on it Nov 01 15:24:20 hm, apart from some of the lower-level libs maemo is fully FOSS, right? Nov 01 15:24:34 not really "fully" Nov 01 15:25:04 binary blobs limit ability of having updated libs Nov 01 15:25:08 significant parts of the GUI is closed as well Nov 01 15:25:27 so we are stuck with 2.6.28 Nov 01 15:25:57 browser UI, phone UI, for instance Nov 01 15:25:57 unless one doesnt need gsm-voice, then pali did good work of porting hardware to 4.2 Nov 01 15:26:13 which parts of the GUI are that bencoh? http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/9/94/Top_level_architecture.png/800px-Top_level_architecture.png Nov 01 15:26:29 meh, sorry, too slow >.> Nov 01 15:26:33 i cannot read irc today :) Nov 01 15:26:45 KotCzarny: 4.2 should have pretty much everything needed for gsm voice calls afaict Nov 01 15:27:00 meh, i need another 750 words to fully describe maemo :( Nov 01 15:27:08 or even another 2000 Nov 01 15:27:21 unfortunately other drivers broke/were removed over time Nov 01 15:27:56 which binary blobs are the worst offenders? Nov 01 15:28:11 in rt-com and audio? Nov 01 15:28:36 there is no opensource opengl driver Nov 01 15:28:39 am i right? Nov 01 15:28:45 btw, could the UI be exchanged? Nov 01 15:29:12 not realistic to expect FOSS driver for the gpu Nov 01 15:29:48 sicelo, still, that would make having full opengl instead of es one Nov 01 15:29:58 ie. 3d apps 'working' without patching Nov 01 15:30:45 KotCzarny: you can try and build mesa Nov 01 15:30:48 but .... :) Nov 01 15:31:00 I'm pretty sure it will be painfully slow Nov 01 15:31:13 you mean software rendering? Nov 01 15:31:14 :) Nov 01 15:31:20 yeah Nov 01 15:31:28 mesa-llvmpipe Nov 01 15:31:39 nah, as you've said, defeats the purpose Nov 01 15:32:03 oh, llvmpipe hasnt been ported to arm. nevermind then, it'd be plain software mesa Nov 01 15:33:24 (or it kinda works but is not officially supported) Nov 01 16:00:46 hrm Nov 01 16:22:34 how come code snippet works standalone yet segfaults in app? Nov 01 16:22:54 is there some way linking can mess things up? Nov 01 16:27:40 app passing crazy parameters? Nov 01 16:28:22 nope Nov 01 16:28:30 same code, same params Nov 01 16:28:48 it looks like linking with other things messes library objects Nov 01 16:30:01 same compilation flags, same linking flags and libs Nov 01 16:35:32 and most funnily segv is because glibc detects it Nov 01 16:35:34 *** Error in `/mnt/_data3/sdb/_src_moje/oscp/oscp': free(): invalid pointer: 0xb7deee40 *** Nov 01 16:37:20 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2mLbek0C Nov 01 16:40:22 memory corruption ... stack/heap overflow and/or race condition Nov 01 16:40:26 most probably :) Nov 01 16:40:41 bencoh, but it even occurs if i move function to main Nov 01 16:41:09 got any idea how to debug/fix it? Nov 01 16:41:26 double check/printf your pointers :) Nov 01 16:42:07 https://xkcd.com/371/ ;) Nov 01 16:43:36 could it be bug in zzlib ? Nov 01 16:43:42 i mean zziplib Nov 01 16:48:01 you know, when i do int main(...) { SNIPPET; } and link with things i link oscp with it segfault, when i do the same code but link only with zziplib it works Nov 01 16:49:50 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=VjJAruhD Nov 01 16:49:53 thats the snippet Nov 01 16:52:55 here's the highlighted version if you prefer: http://pastebin.com/VjJAruhD Nov 01 17:14:07 KotCzarny: have you analyzed the coredump? Nov 01 17:14:22 ceene, elaborate please Nov 01 17:14:30 when it segfaults Nov 01 17:14:34 it should drop a coredump file Nov 01 17:14:43 no coredump Nov 01 17:14:55 ulimit -c unlimited Nov 01 17:15:16 Aborted (core dumped) Nov 01 17:15:18 now what? Nov 01 17:15:21 now you can Nov 01 17:15:27 gdb executable-file coredump Nov 01 17:15:43 and? Nov 01 17:15:51 it will show the tree of calls that resulted in the coredump Nov 01 17:15:58 bt is the same as when running in gdb directly Nov 01 17:16:11 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2mLbek0C Nov 01 17:17:26 so it seems indeed zzlib is the one segfaulting Nov 01 17:17:33 by trying to free something unfreeable Nov 01 17:17:52 but the same code and params work when the function is called in separate snippet Nov 01 17:18:49 the same code, exactly? Nov 01 17:19:01 I really doubt its a bug in zziplib Nov 01 17:19:03 int main() {} is the same Nov 01 17:19:18 the difference might be things i link in Nov 01 17:19:41 there may be some name collision? Nov 01 17:19:54 might be the possibility Nov 01 17:20:01 name collision? Nov 01 17:20:49 ceene: got any idea how to debug that? Nov 01 17:20:49 "name collision" would show at link time Nov 01 17:20:51 are you static compiling it all, aren't you? Nov 01 17:20:56 yes Nov 01 17:21:10 zzlib is static, but libc and libz is system Nov 01 17:21:19 you can compile everything with -g then and step by step inside the lib Nov 01 17:21:38 elaborate step by step Nov 01 17:21:49 with gdb Nov 01 17:21:51 and how it relates to finding names Nov 01 17:21:54 oh, well Nov 01 17:22:13 if you go inside the zzip_file_read function Nov 01 17:22:15 and step by step Nov 01 17:22:26 gdb will tell you which function is being called Nov 01 17:22:30 and from what library Nov 01 17:23:04 it will also help you find which is the free() call that is failing and try to search which pointer is it trying to free Nov 01 17:23:35 if you look at the backtrace its in glibc Nov 01 17:23:52 zzip_file_read -> inflate(libz) -> getc(libc) Nov 01 17:23:59 yep Nov 01 17:24:01 true Nov 01 17:24:08 so it looks like some pointer going bad Nov 01 17:24:29 but i still dont know how to catch it Nov 01 17:24:46 with the core dump Nov 01 17:24:53 you should be able to go up in the backtrace Nov 01 17:24:57 and see which pointer was that Nov 01 17:25:11 magic words i shall i use? Nov 01 17:25:18 simply with up/down, list and print variable you should get most of the work done Nov 01 17:26:03 #4 0xb732c63d in free () from /lib/libc.so.6 Nov 01 17:26:03 (gdb) print Nov 01 17:26:03 The history is empty. Nov 01 17:26:22 up a couple of times Nov 01 17:26:28 so we get to the inflate() call Nov 01 17:26:36 same Nov 01 17:26:50 you can command it list Nov 01 17:26:56 to see the source code around that Nov 01 17:27:01 and see which variables come into play Nov 01 17:28:44 if i share coredump would you be able to check it? Nov 01 17:29:00 i'd need the source and executable too Nov 01 17:29:38 k Nov 01 17:29:52 email or some sharing site? Nov 01 17:30:55 you use dropbox? Nov 01 17:30:58 nope Nov 01 17:31:29 whichever then Nov 01 17:31:31 http://www.filedropper.com/ Nov 01 17:31:32 for example? Nov 01 18:03:39 hm, how is this table to be interpreted? http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages Nov 01 18:04:20 i cannot read out what is considered part of the base system and what is still closed off Nov 01 18:11:56 mvaenskae: does it really matter? Nov 01 18:12:10 freemangordon: it's his homework Nov 01 18:12:19 writing about n900 for school Nov 01 18:12:19 lol Nov 01 18:12:26 oh :) Nov 01 18:12:30 about foss and stuff Nov 01 18:12:34 ok Nov 01 18:12:35 nice homework Nov 01 18:12:45 he should reverse engineer something that's closed and free that Nov 01 18:12:51 now that would guarantee A+++ Nov 01 18:12:54 :nod: Nov 01 18:13:57 freemangordon: hmm, I thought it mattered, kind of :) Nov 01 18:14:28 bencoh: not really, if you wish full set of n900 functionality Nov 01 18:18:45 not homework, part of an essay i have to write for credits Nov 01 18:19:14 ceene: not part of the question i have to answer ;) Nov 01 18:19:47 and i guess that is a bit too much to ask for :D Nov 01 18:20:17 one man can dream... Nov 01 18:20:29 google's summer of code wouldn't pay any student to RE anything? Nov 01 18:21:58 I doubt they'd pay for Maemo work Nov 01 18:22:18 I really dont see why they'd bother :) Nov 01 18:23:13 freemangordon: btw, you were responsible for hd video-playback/recording, right? Nov 01 18:23:20 http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2009/Projects/Integrating_Maemo_in_Open_Embedded happened in ... 2009 Nov 01 18:23:33 but hey, it's 2015 already Nov 01 18:24:58 it's quite funny that some people want to port maemo to everything and some others want to use any other distro on their n900s Nov 01 18:25:17 its about personal preferences Nov 01 18:25:29 i'm one that would like to do both... maemo on a tablet but a full blown out debian on my n900 Nov 01 18:25:32 one likes media libraries, other prefer folder/file libraries Nov 01 18:25:32 :D Nov 01 18:26:04 i treat maemo as another DE (usable and one i cant change to anything else at the moment) Nov 01 18:26:17 maemo does bring some quite good system integration Nov 01 18:26:49 hildon-desktop/mb2 is a much more usable multitasking env than anything that used to exist back then Nov 01 18:27:04 (for a touch device/phone/tablet) Nov 01 18:43:37 so i take it that maemo even with the cssu is not fully free, right? Nov 01 18:44:02 that's correct Nov 01 18:44:25 mvaenskae: sort of Nov 01 18:44:28 which parts are exactly still lacking excluding firmware on the kernel end? Nov 01 18:44:50 lack what? Nov 01 18:45:04 actually the kernel is opensource :) Nov 01 18:45:22 as is gst-dsp Nov 01 18:45:27 (except for firmware blobs that dont run on host cpu - like wl12xx firmware) Nov 01 18:46:01 yeah that's quite funny as well :) Nov 01 18:47:14 freemangordon: do we have the source for the DSP libs/firmware used for video decoding? Nov 01 18:47:19 (the TI stuff) Nov 01 18:47:59 (I mean the part running on the C64X) Nov 01 18:48:16 no Nov 01 18:54:31 not so long ago, nokia has donated my school a whole set of phones, since its beginning to the latest lumia Nov 01 18:54:40 there are of course one n900 and one n9 :) Nov 01 18:54:49 oooh <3 Nov 01 18:54:51 all of them without having been used ever Nov 01 18:55:12 if i can i'll try to take a photo of the exhibition Nov 01 18:55:25 there's a glass so there are lots of reflections Nov 01 18:56:29 are they actual phones though? Nov 01 18:56:31 or just models? Nov 01 18:57:01 they're the real thing Nov 01 18:57:14 there's also a similar set of donated phones from motorola Nov 01 18:57:18 but nokia is cooler Nov 01 18:57:22 :) Nov 01 18:57:36 it's quite funny looking at the very first ones, that are huge, seeing then a few years of micro-phones like the 8210 Nov 01 18:57:50 and then as time goes by, phone sizes start to match again those from the 90s Nov 01 18:57:52 lol Nov 01 18:58:07 my mom had an 8310 Nov 01 18:58:14 literally survived being flung from the 4th floor Nov 01 18:58:23 without any issue Nov 01 18:58:31 ceene: haha Nov 01 18:59:53 I owned both N5110 and N5510 and N900 is still heavier :)) Nov 01 19:00:25 (but smaller) Nov 01 19:00:25 oh, i had a 5110 too! Nov 01 19:00:55 they also have some of the communicator ones Nov 01 19:04:08 there is no such thing as N5510 :P its nokia 5510 Nov 01 19:04:22 and yes, i have this beast Nov 01 19:04:39 with kb leds changed to blue and screen to white leds Nov 01 19:05:24 KotCzarny: yeah right :p Nov 01 19:05:35 mine got stolen :( Nov 01 19:07:00 stealing 5510? o.o Nov 01 19:07:06 that's huge Nov 01 19:07:22 and its basically 3310 with mp3 addon Nov 01 19:28:41 they probably didnt really know what it was >_> Nov 01 20:31:17 frm? Nov 01 20:31:25 sorry... Nov 01 20:32:17 btw, 5510 happens to be very close to Nokia N-Gage (the "Classic" not QD) Nov 01 20:34:05 both had two audio jacks, meaning you could play a midi for example on the one, and MP3 on the other simultaneously Nov 01 20:39:09 hmm, wasnt it because one jack was for headphones and other for control/mic ? Nov 01 20:41:17 oh .. ok. on N-Gage the one was for headset (so mic + control). the other was dedicated to the hardware MP3 chip. Nov 01 20:42:33 i think same story with n-gage because it used same headset Nov 01 20:42:38 interesting that MS is hosting even user manual for 5510 :p Nov 01 20:43:39 KotCzarny: i have two n-gage classic. one working. it works as i've just explained. i won't be surprised if you find the 5510 also is like that. Nov 01 20:43:47 uhum Nov 01 20:43:58 I dont think we had a dedicated jack for mp3 Nov 01 20:44:06 always wondered what blue jack was for Nov 01 20:44:10 sucks then Nov 01 20:44:14 it was 12 years ago, but still Nov 01 20:44:27 N-Gage does. Nov 01 20:44:41 mp3 was routed via black one (headphones) because i used to connect 5510 to hifi using only one jack Nov 01 20:44:41 you can check the user manual :) Nov 01 20:44:59 but i might be wrong and memory playing tricks Nov 01 20:45:12 let me look (for 5510 .. which i never had). for my N-Gage I am 100% sure about it Nov 01 20:48:11 wtf! maybe i'm misunderstanding the manual .. http://nds2.webapps.microsoft.com/files/support/apac/phones/guides/Nokia_5510_APAC_UG_EN.pdf Nov 01 20:48:33 which page? Nov 01 20:48:35 check page 14, then 16 Nov 01 20:48:50 5510 has 3 jacks? :/ Nov 01 20:48:58 2 jacks Nov 01 20:49:06 third is charger Nov 01 20:49:51 um Nov 01 20:49:57 what are (1) and (2) on page 16? Nov 01 20:50:31 maybe its line-out Nov 01 20:50:46 so 3? jacks? Nov 01 20:50:57 never used the one under cover Nov 01 20:51:14 but apparently its line-out Nov 01 20:51:23 that's likely your dedicated one then .. like on N-Gage Nov 01 20:51:34 no Nov 01 20:51:43 headphones jack != line-out Nov 01 20:51:48 impedance etc Nov 01 20:52:10 unless internally it routed things differently when third one was connected Nov 01 20:52:18 if i get a chance i'll check it Nov 01 20:53:12 i know about impendance :/ Nov 01 20:53:19 anyway Nov 01 20:53:43 http://www.altimobiler.dk/up/1342478383.pdf .. this one is for N-Gage. pages 14 & 15 show audio connections Nov 01 20:54:26 KotCzarny: hmm, this rings a bell Nov 01 20:54:34 (lineout vs headphone jack) Nov 01 20:56:18 now the only question is if things get routed differently on hp and line-out Nov 01 20:56:42 ie. voice and ringtones on line-out or only hp? Nov 01 20:56:52 looks like yes, 5510 audio system was quite close to N-Gage's .. even both could record from "that" special jack Nov 01 20:59:21 i think you could get voice calls & ringtones faintly on the the 'MP3' jack on N-Gage. But the best output was on the 'regular Nov 01 20:59:24 jack Nov 01 21:03:05 just test, yes, ringtones do sound on 2nd (mp3) jack. but no mp3 on 'headset' jack Nov 01 21:03:11 *tested Nov 01 21:15:12 i see what's going on in 5510 ... looks like the 3rd jack is line-in only. in N-Gage that was still connected via gray jack Nov 01 21:16:47 black jack is calls on both N900 & 5510, and gray jack is MP3 (i'll say on both) .. because as KotCzarny said, one jack for external audio .. i believe you were connecting that to gray, not black Nov 01 21:17:00 that's how it is on N-Gage Nov 01 21:18:39 we had both calls and playback on the same jack Nov 01 21:18:47 afair Nov 01 21:19:15 i doubt. your MP3 decoding was hardware? or software? Nov 01 21:22:36 i seem to remember stock hildon-desktop had memory leak. modified/ccsu h-d .. is anyone aware of a leak there? Nov 01 21:23:37 Sicelo: there shouldn't be any leaks remaining in cssu h-d Nov 01 21:23:45 why do you think there is one? Nov 01 21:25:22 few days ago i reported extreme slowness at times on my thumb n900. today it was quite bad again. htop/syslog not showing anything in particular, but n900 definitely slow. then i thought to killall h-d .. seemed to be better :) Nov 01 21:25:52 will confirm in next few days though, because unfortunately i had to get on a short drive, and my battery died along the way Nov 01 21:26:54 Sicelo: what was h-d memory usage before and after you killed it? Nov 01 21:28:00 tbh i don't know. will keep better logs/data next time. after killing h-d though it really seemed to be much better. Nov 01 21:28:08 ok Nov 01 21:29:06 as far as widgets go, i have only fmrdsnotify, music player widget (stock),and calendar home widget Nov 01 21:29:15 unless one of them is 'evil' Nov 01 21:37:43 (all widgets are :°) Nov 01 21:38:36 :( Nov 01 21:39:26 i need fmrdsnotify as it seems to be the only way to make music player show track information on my car's radio. unless i'm missing something Nov 01 21:39:41 the others i could easily live without Nov 01 21:46:37 I believe you should use dsmetool -k to kill h-d Nov 01 21:47:25 also things could leak into h-d, python widgetz etc.. Nov 01 21:47:55 you're right about dsmetool. didn't think about it at the time Nov 01 21:48:04 maybe rdsnotify? Nov 01 21:49:02 that would be a pity. i sometimes need it Nov 01 21:49:46 no evidence but I found that my h-d issues where caused from other extras packages Nov 01 22:40:51 Hopefully today is the day I finally finish my work on the connectivity subsystem on the N900 Nov 01 22:41:21 and can make my forum post with all the information one would need in order to rip that subsystem out and replace it with something new. Nov 01 22:53:00 jonwil: all of icd2? or wifi bits? Nov 01 22:53:08 all of ICD2 Nov 01 22:53:24 it was actually easier to document all the things you need to rip out all of ICD2 Nov 01 22:53:38 lol Nov 01 22:53:40 than the things you need to rip out just the WiFi bits Nov 01 22:54:04 interesting Nov 01 22:59:37 the good news is that the interface used to talk to the cellular modem GPRS bits is fully documented thanks to Nokia (the documentation for it is in the doc bits of the csd-gprs package that goes on the phone) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 02 02:59:59 2015