**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 20 02:59:58 2015
Nov 20 07:18:24 <antranigv> yo \o do you guys use pgp on maemo?
Nov 20 08:37:10 <zGrr> moin :)
Nov 20 08:43:40 <jonwil> hi
Nov 20 10:13:20 <jonwil> ~seen freemangordon
Nov 20 10:13:22 <infobot> freemangordon <~ivo@46.249.74.23> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 7d 16h 34m 19s ago, saying: 'I mailed him'.
Nov 20 10:13:27 <jonwil> ~seen freemangordon1
Nov 20 10:13:28 <infobot> freemangordon1 is currently on #maemo #neo900 #maemo-ssu, last said: 'dammit, I am unable to make the last REed function as fast as stock :(. I must be missing something'.
Nov 20 10:51:37 <KotCzarny> jonwil, send him an email?
Nov 20 10:59:23 <jonwil> I dont have any contact details fir him...
Nov 20 10:59:27 <jonwil> for
Nov 20 11:00:36 <KotCzarny> send msg via tmo profile?
Nov 20 11:01:26 <KotCzarny> http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=35969
Nov 20 11:01:46 <KotCzarny> click contact info then 'send priv msg'
Nov 20 13:24:51 <bencoh> if he doesnt answer here he's probably busy/away from keyboard
Nov 20 13:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> antranigv: ask jake42
Nov 20 13:47:56 <DocScrutinizer05> err sorry
Nov 20 13:48:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ask ZetaR 
Nov 20 13:49:44 <DocScrutinizer05> he prepared a comprehensive review of mailing software with emphasis on security aspects
Nov 20 14:24:05 <klopsi-u3> ~repo
Nov 20 14:24:06 <infobot> The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications
Nov 20 14:24:13 <klopsi-u3> ~repositories
Nov 20 14:24:13 <infobot> repositories are frequently old.
Nov 20 14:24:36 <klopsi-u3> !repo
Nov 20 14:24:50 <klopsi-u3> ~repository
Nov 20 14:26:54 <klopsi-u3> anybody know the command to display repositories?
Nov 20 14:27:30 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys #maemo repo
Nov 20 14:27:32 <infobot> Factoid search of '#maemo repo' by key (2): #maemo repo-down ;; #maemo repos.
Nov 20 14:27:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ~repos
Nov 20 14:27:43 <infobot> i heard repos is "deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ ;; deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./", or see http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
Nov 20 14:29:55 <klopsi-u3> thank you
Nov 20 14:32:36 <KotCzarny> ~maemo-repos
Nov 20 14:32:36 <infobot> methinks maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
Nov 20 14:38:45 <klopsi-u3> got two unflashable bricked N900s :(
Nov 20 14:38:57 <DocScrutinizer05> hardly
Nov 20 14:39:15 <DocScrutinizer05> unless both have broken USB
Nov 20 14:39:26 <klopsi-u3> yeah flakey usb
Nov 20 14:39:36 <klopsi-u3> though it worked once 
Nov 20 14:39:48 <klopsi-u3> white light doesn't even come-on when hitting power button
Nov 20 14:39:59 <KotCzarny> charge battery externally?
Nov 20 14:40:10 <klopsi-u3> battery is charged
Nov 20 14:40:18 <KotCzarny> fix the usb then
Nov 20 14:40:28 <KotCzarny> find the electro wizard
Nov 20 14:41:37 <DocScrutinizer05> now that's quite severe, might be all sorts of hw damage, starting with power button and not ending at CPU itself. Or it's a defect NOLO, or the battery is not as charged as you might think it is
Nov 20 14:44:50 <DocScrutinizer05> first test: get a linux PC, in a root terminal do `tail -f /var/log/messages` (or whatever the syslog is named on your linux PC), then plug in the N900 via USB and watch syslog for ROMBOOT getting enumerated. This should never fail, not even on weak battery (only completely defect battery might stop it) - unless USB is broken
Nov 20 14:45:10 <DocScrutinizer05> same time the N900 should show a yellow indicator LED
Nov 20 14:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> unless battery is fully charged
Nov 20 14:51:45 <klopsi-u3> i can see new USB device - usb 3-1: Manufacturer Nokia
Nov 20 14:52:02 <klopsi-u3> no mention of ROMBOOT
Nov 20 14:54:14 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/PC_syslog_of_USB_enum
Nov 20 14:55:30 <DocScrutinizer05> when you don't see 2014-08-24T04:26:38.437533+02:00 saturn kernel: [4764602.699541] usb 2-1.8: Product: Nokia USB ROM  then the device wasn't powered down when you plugged it in to USB
Nov 20 14:56:09 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway your USB is not broken, so the device is most definitely flashable
Nov 20 14:56:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
Nov 20 14:56:21 <infobot> it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh
Nov 20 14:57:00 <klopsi-u3> it gets up to
Nov 20 14:57:01 <klopsi-u3> Nov 20 16:56:46 klopsisXMG mtp-probe: bus: 3, device: 94 was not an MTP device
Nov 20 14:57:02 <klopsi-u3> Nov 20 16:56:46 klopsisXMG kernel: [1198398.829441] usb 3-1: USB disconnect, device number 94
Nov 20 14:57:12 <klopsi-u3> then it re-'boots' and vibrates
Nov 20 14:57:23 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's a powered-up N900 connected to USB
Nov 20 14:57:32 <DocScrutinizer05> you got a bootloop
Nov 20 14:57:52 <klopsi-u3> flasher says Suitable USB device not found, waiting.
Nov 20 14:58:05 <DocScrutinizer05> use http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz
Nov 20 14:58:10 <klopsi-u3> using that
Nov 20 14:58:23 <klopsi-u3> ./flash-it-all.sh
Nov 20 14:58:40 <DocScrutinizer05> please paste complete session log
Nov 20 14:58:46 <DocScrutinizer05> to pastebin
Nov 20 14:59:30 <klopsi-u3> http://pastebin.ca/3263155
Nov 20 15:00:00 <DocScrutinizer05> also please power down the device, open up kbd slide, press and hold 'U' key, and connect nokia wallcharger
Nov 20 15:00:25 <DocScrutinizer05> check if display shows USB icon in upper right corner of 'NOKIA' screen
Nov 20 15:00:36 <klopsi-u3> ok
Nov 20 15:02:56 <DocScrutinizer05> does USB icon show?
Nov 20 15:03:01 <klopsi-u3> can't see nokia screen or usb icon
Nov 20 15:03:17 <klopsi-u3> after releasing U key and waiting a few seconds, solid yellow light appears
Nov 20 15:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess your battery is depleted
Nov 20 15:03:33 <klopsi-u3> ok i switch batts to be sure
Nov 20 15:03:39 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, yellow solid light suggests battery completely depleted
Nov 20 15:07:38 <klopsi-u3> is it charging while solid yellow light shows?
Nov 20 15:08:01 <klopsi-u3> i replaced with a 1/2 full battery from another n900 and it shows solid yellow light
Nov 20 15:10:06 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, it is charging, but charging stops as soon as the device can boot up, means the system will try to take over charging and general battery management at a voltage of some 3 Volt. When your system is broken then charging stops and battery will never reach sufficient voltage to do flashing. that's called bootloop deadlock
Nov 20 15:10:38 <klopsi-u3> ok flasher started for some reason with a different cable
Nov 20 15:11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> well you might have a damaged NOLO, this would explain why it's showing solid yellow and no NOKIA screen
Nov 20 15:11:12 <klopsi-u3> will flashing fix NOLO?
Nov 20 15:11:45 <DocScrutinizer05> no, you need coldflashing for this. Strongly deprecated unless you have absolutely clear proof that NOLO is defect
Nov 20 15:12:01 <DocScrutinizer05> when falsher starts then NOLO is working just fine
Nov 20 15:12:10 <DocScrutinizer05> flasher*
Nov 20 15:12:23 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/PC_syslog_of_USB_enum
Nov 20 15:13:22 <DocScrutinizer05> >> 2) NOLO in "update mode" (idProduct=0105) <<
Nov 20 15:17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> please check your PC's syslog for the three lines "New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0106" (ROMBOOT),  "New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0105" (NOLO),  "New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=01c7"  (maemo system)
Nov 20 15:19:55 <klopsi-u3> http://pastebin.ca/3263184
Nov 20 15:20:00 <klopsi-u3> is messages log
Nov 20 15:21:58 <klopsi-u3> now connecting charger results in orange light flashing once, then darkness
Nov 20 15:22:14 <klopsi-u3> wiggling the usb cable results in orange light flashing briefly
Nov 20 15:23:44 <DocScrutinizer05> usb broken, or cable/plug broken
Nov 20 15:25:37 <klopsi-u3> heh people on ebay want 180-200 euro for a used n900
Nov 20 15:25:57 <DocScrutinizer05> some do, yes
Nov 20 15:28:39 <DocScrutinizer05> the syslog clearly shows that your NOLO is OK and it has repeated enums that could only happen on USB connection break and reattach, which looks like either the USB jack in device or the USB plug or cable (or the PC itself) being broken
Nov 20 15:29:37 <DocScrutinizer05> try a few other USB cables, if all show same symptoms then you need to get USB fixed
Nov 20 15:29:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~usbfix
Nov 20 15:29:42 <infobot> methinks usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt
Nov 20 15:33:11 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes a temporary stopgap workaround is setting the device with plugged in USB on a matchbox or similar small object with the USB jack, so the USB plug and jack gets gently bent upwards by the weight of device. Be *very* careful with this not to damage USB jack even more!
Nov 20 15:33:42 <DocScrutinizer05> obvously you need to do the USB break and make with the PC end of USB cable then
Nov 20 15:33:54 <klopsi-u3> that's exactly what i'm doing now and i'm getting the charging blinking orange light
Nov 20 15:34:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, that sounds promising
Nov 20 15:35:25 <DocScrutinizer05> if you eventually get green light after a while, you're good and battery charged. Otherwise you got a bootloop due to system needing a reflash and you need to charge battery externally
Nov 20 15:35:56 <DocScrutinizer05> green light may take up to 5 hours
Nov 20 15:36:19 <klopsi-u3> kay
Nov 20 19:07:59 <klopsi-u3> Charging light green, N900 boots. Thanks DocScrutinizer05 !
Nov 20 19:08:27 <klopsi-u3> and KotCzarny 
Nov 20 19:09:17 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 20 19:09:44 <Vajb> yet another lamb saved
Nov 20 19:10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> klopsi-u3: now fix your USB!
Nov 20 19:11:14 <klopsi-u3> hmm i seem to have erased my contacts
Nov 20 19:11:18 <DocScrutinizer05> USB is the most notorious single point of failure in N900
Nov 20 19:11:46 <klopsi-u3> i'll reinforce the non-broken n900
Nov 20 19:12:03 <klopsi-u3> i am not very good at soldering, though i do have an iron
Nov 20 19:12:13 <KotCzarny> i didnt do anything to mine, i just connect the usb cable carefully
Nov 20 19:12:20 <KotCzarny> and always use nokia's one
Nov 20 19:12:22 <DocScrutinizer05> micro USB is designed in a way so plugs wear out while jacks should survive almost eternally
Nov 20 19:12:24 <Vajb> 100 wats quick iron i assume
Nov 20 19:13:01 <Vajb> i use also nokia charger with filed down lock pins
Nov 20 19:13:40 <KotCzarny> mine probably wore out a bit because i use the same cable
Nov 20 19:13:51 <klopsi-u3> it looks like repairing the broken usb is delicate work
Nov 20 19:13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I didn't ever file down lock latches on any USB plug
Nov 20 19:14:04 <Vajb> yeah they vary
Nov 20 19:14:36 <Vajb> at work we have charger that everyone uses when in need and it is looser than my filed one
Nov 20 19:14:57 <KotCzarny> male whore
Nov 20 19:14:59 <KotCzarny> :>
Nov 20 19:15:06 <Vajb> haha
Nov 20 19:15:09 <DocScrutinizer05> klopsi-u3: yes, it's not exactly a simple task, unlike toughening the working USB jack which is easy
Nov 20 19:19:42 <DocScrutinizer05> actually filing down anything at USB is a possible hazard to the contacts, due to the fine steel dust. Strongly deprecated. Rather use pencil for lubrication and do half an hour of mating/unmating with a new cable, where you carefully make sure to only pry out the plug with your fingernails between plug and casing wall
Nov 20 19:19:54 <DocScrutinizer05> 2mm suffice
Nov 20 19:20:13 <DocScrutinizer05> after 50 or 100 cycles, the plug will work just fine
Nov 20 19:28:07 <DocScrutinizer05> also pencil graphite makes a hell of a difference
Nov 20 19:28:31 <DocScrutinizer05> don't paint the plug's inside! only outside
Nov 20 19:28:47 <klopsi-u3> ok
Nov 20 19:30:05 <DocScrutinizer05> inspect the contacts of your USB jack closely with a magnifier glass and LED spotlight or whatever does the job for you. Compare to a known-good jack
Nov 20 19:30:48 <DocScrutinizer05> do same with plug, use a new camble as reference. Test with N900 and the new cable. Often it's the plug and not the jack that's defect
Nov 20 19:31:05 <DocScrutinizer05> also maje sure no debris is inside the USB jack
Nov 20 19:31:17 <DocScrutinizer05> make*
Nov 20 19:34:16 <DocScrutinizer05> resoldering a partially broken USB jack is very difficult since you can't reach the pins with soldering iron. You may *try* hot air reflow which may or may not work
Nov 20 19:37:37 <klopsi-u3> now i have 3 working n900s yaay except for 2 with flakey usb
Nov 20 19:49:47 <klopsi-u3> still best phone, best community
Nov 20 20:02:09 <jonwil> hi
Nov 20 20:25:01 <DocScrutinizer05> when you try hot air reflow, use decent SMD flux (no pen here since you need to apply the fluid with a needle or paint brush to the almost invisible pins), and make sure you cover the camera with carton or several layers of alu foil
Nov 20 20:26:06 <DocScrutinizer05> also cover the two so called C-springs at edge of board next to USB jack, so they don't get unsoldered
Nov 20 20:26:22 <Sicelo> +1 on the flux. be generous too
Nov 20 20:26:29 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 20 20:26:58 <Sicelo> did my two N900 with soldering iron only. couldn't have done without flux
Nov 20 20:27:41 <DocScrutinizer05> then apply hot air focused to the gap between USB jack and shielding can until the solder which you used to solder down the USB like in ~usbfix starts melting
Nov 20 20:28:13 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: how did you manage to reach the pins?
Nov 20 20:28:28 <DocScrutinizer05> did you cut off the "roof" of USB jack?
Nov 20 20:28:39 <Sicelo> yes :D
Nov 20 20:28:42 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Nov 20 20:29:12 <DocScrutinizer05> this can only be done when USB jack unsoldered from board - or when you are _very_ skilled and experienced with dremel
Nov 20 20:29:45 <Sicelo009N> it was my 1st smd job.
Nov 20 20:31:02 <Sicelo009N> i admit i was taking a fat risk, but couldn't find someone i could trust with my dear N900. 2/3 of my soul is in it 
Nov 20 20:31:05 <Sicelo009N> :-)
Nov 20 20:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I guess the easiest way is to completely unsolder and resolder the whole USB jack, using hot air and solder paste
Nov 20 20:33:50 <DocScrutinizer05> or even use 0.1mm wires of ~5mm length to connect the USB jack's pins to the pads, then bend the wires and solder USB into place according to ~usbfix
Nov 20 20:34:32 <DocScrutinizer05> or you cut a segment out of the shielding can so you can actually reach the USB pins/pads
Nov 20 20:35:25 <DocScrutinizer05> the shielding can is not really important for functionality of the N900
Nov 20 20:35:47 <Sicelo009N> yes, i cut that too
Nov 20 20:35:53 <DocScrutinizer05> aaaah :-)
Nov 20 20:36:30 <Sicelo009N> just the corner nearest the pins
Nov 20 20:37:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Nov 20 20:39:22 <DocScrutinizer05> using a decent cutter like https://www.reichelt.de/?ARTICLE=98862&PROVID=2788&wt_mc=amc141526782519998&gclid=CPioyN7tn8kCFWfkwgod6hADrg and a soldering iron, removal of a segment of the can wall is easy after carefully removing the lid
Nov 20 20:41:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I recommend anti-ESD variant https://www.reichelt.de/ESD-Werkzeug/KN-78-03-125-ESD/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=3&ARTICLE=44687&GROUPID=5943
Nov 20 20:41:23 <DocScrutinizer05> has conducting plastic handles
Nov 20 20:44:06 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry this one: https://www.reichelt.de/ESD-Werkzeug/KN-78-03-125-ESD/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=3&ARTICLE=44687&GROUPID=5943
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 21 02:59:59 2015