**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 20 02:59:59 2015
Dec 20 09:38:00 <capitanocrunch> hello everybody
Dec 20 09:39:36 <capitanocrunch> does anybody know if maemo x-terminal gives a warning if you type rm -rf / ?
Dec 20 09:41:02 <KotCzarny> unlikely
Dec 20 09:41:25 <KotCzarny> unless you have something like: alias rm="rm -i" in profile or bashrc
Dec 20 09:41:58 <KotCzarny> but if you do: rm somerandomfile and it doesnt ask then it doesnt
Dec 20 09:44:10 <sixwheeledbeast> try it?
Dec 20 09:45:07 <KotCzarny> swb: good point
Dec 20 10:02:16 <sixwheeledbeast> You would have to be root, in which case you shouldn't need a warning?
Dec 20 10:02:40 <KotCzarny> unless he is trying to write a prank 
Dec 20 10:04:21 <sixwheeledbeast> some prank
Dec 20 10:14:51 <capitanocrunch> in debian it gives a warning and also an --option to do it as nonroot
Dec 20 10:23:24 <sixwheeledbeast> ok...
Dec 20 10:24:21 <Pali> freemangordon: I'm going to fix that connui package
Dec 20 10:31:11 <Oksanaa> I have talent for getting into trouble. The folder with 500+ files from 3 days of travel? When I try to archive it into a zip, I get a read-only MyDocs, as if some files in the folder are corrupted
Dec 20 10:32:56 <Oksanaa> And trying to sic photorec onto MyDocs gives mostly not-the-files-I-need (haven't finished weeding through 163 results of undelete-recovery operation, yet)
Dec 20 10:33:47 <Oksanaa> Will likely attempt recovery-undelete in the future. Hopefully, it will not start by recovering the same 163 results again
Dec 20 10:34:31 <Oksanaa> It's painful when a photo is recovered as separate jpg and exif-text files, with no clue on matching them
Dec 20 10:41:23 <KotCzarny> um
Dec 20 10:41:46 <KotCzarny> read-only doesnt require photorec rescue
Dec 20 10:41:50 <KotCzarny> or am i wrong?
Dec 20 10:44:10 <Oksanaa> Um, why would it go into read-only mode?
Dec 20 10:44:27 * Oksanaa does not understand filesystems much
Dec 20 10:48:56 <KotCzarny> oksanaa, because it wasnt umounted cleanly?
Dec 20 10:49:17 <KotCzarny> and its vfat, so inconsistences are very easy to introduce with unclean reboots
Dec 20 10:49:36 <Oksanaa> It wasn't read-only at first, it became read-only after archive-attempt ?
Dec 20 10:49:45 <KotCzarny> if you didnt do anything radical to it most likely nothing was lost
Dec 20 10:50:41 <KotCzarny> system might have encountered some inconsistency and remounted it ro to stop further damage
Dec 20 10:51:05 <KotCzarny> unclean umount from usb cable also can be a reason
Dec 20 10:51:24 <KotCzarny> (undetected until reacheing some point in directory structure later)
Dec 20 10:51:33 <Oksanaa> My point of view was, tar encounters inconsistencies while trying to archive, filesystem becomes read-only
Dec 20 10:52:02 <Oksanaa> How to repair inconsistencies? And, no usb-cable, broken usb-port
Dec 20 10:52:14 <KotCzarny> no, tar doesnt do anything like that, it could have been any app, its the kernel that detected incons. on the fs 
Dec 20 10:52:24 <KotCzarny> first, backup the data
Dec 20 10:53:23 <KotCzarny> then you should umount it, dosfsck, remount
Dec 20 10:54:42 <Oksanaa> To where? And by the way, restriction "too large file" on "share by email" is absurd, especially when I try to send many small files. I guess, it's unreasonable to ask the share-plugin to create several emails for that purpose?
Dec 20 10:55:32 <KotCzarny> sd card?
Dec 20 10:55:46 <Oksanaa> So, fsck would repair it? Which option was it to make corrections "instantaneous", in case of small battery-life and long fsck ?
Dec 20 10:56:00 <KotCzarny> install tiny-smb and copy over wifi?
Dec 20 10:56:10 <KotCzarny> also, dont ignore backup before fsck
Dec 20 10:56:36 <Oksanaa> SD card? Good thinking, but there is a shortage of them around here. Tiny-smb sounds neat, never used it before though
Dec 20 10:57:10 <KotCzarny> you can do the other way around, mount some network dir on the n900 via sshfs
Dec 20 10:57:16 <KotCzarny> or nfs
Dec 20 10:57:34 <Oksanaa> Will endeavour to do some kind of back-up. But what's the worst an fsck can do? Delete corrupt files which I already cannot reach?
Dec 20 10:57:51 <KotCzarny> also, without mounting anything you can just use rsync to backup data too
Dec 20 10:59:12 <KotCzarny> fsck can delete almost everything, it all depends what was the cause
Dec 20 10:59:43 <KotCzarny> if a simple 'bitmap mismatch' then nothing much would happen
Dec 20 11:00:11 <Oksanaa> Well, unclean reboot is likely, LED pattern does not help much when LED does not work (really should get a full new flex cable for this device)
Dec 20 11:00:30 <Oksanaa> Would it recover problematic files?
Dec 20 11:00:56 <KotCzarny> if the inconsistency is already there, i guess problematic files will be corrupted too
Dec 20 11:01:26 <KotCzarny> but as i said, backup first, worry later
Dec 20 11:02:14 <Oksanaa> What has the highest probability of recovering corrupted-and-or-problematic files?
Dec 20 11:02:33 <KotCzarny> define recovering
Dec 20 11:04:17 <Oksanaa> Having them "like new", not damaged. Well, I can deal with having them in fragments, for mix-and-matching by hand, but it would be tiresome
Dec 20 11:05:08 <KotCzarny> most often vfat suffers from bad usage bitmap, so if something was already overwritten then none
Dec 20 11:07:34 <Oksanaa> Not likely to be overwritten, I hope. I did not take that many photos since then, though I did have some
Dec 20 11:10:57 <KotCzarny> backup first, repair fs, check then
Dec 20 11:13:37 <Oksanaa> Okay. Emailing 800+ MB video file (30 minutes of video) is difficult when home-fs has only 600MB free
Dec 20 11:23:24 <KotCzarny> oksanaa: use youtube.com then just mail link?
Dec 20 11:24:46 <Oksanaa> Nice thought. I don't use youtube
Dec 20 11:27:44 <Oksanaa> cloudstor can help
Dec 20 11:56:57 <drathir> Oksanaa: which one provider support 800m attachments?
Dec 20 11:58:40 <drathir> Oksanaa: gdrive/dropbox/ probably, but if possible before send encrypt...
Dec 20 12:00:04 <drathir> Oksanaa: but the best rsync to own vps...
Dec 20 12:02:18 <drathir> Oksanaa: and take on mind even workin os overwritting data too...
Dec 20 14:15:33 <Petros> hello
Dec 20 14:15:57 <Petros> i asked about this a few weeks ago but i was travelling between continents :P
Dec 20 14:16:14 <Petros> i want to learn how to port stuff to maemo
Dec 20 14:16:20 <Petros> i'm in computer science
Dec 20 14:16:31 <Petros> but i don't really know how to begin :S
Dec 20 14:16:49 <KotCzarny> if your program compiles in linux its mostly ported
Dec 20 14:17:12 <Petros> hmm
Dec 20 14:17:18 <KotCzarny> things that differ are just really old libs available
Dec 20 14:17:19 <Petros> but it wouldn't run on arm
Dec 20 14:17:33 <KotCzarny> you know what source compilation is?
Dec 20 14:17:41 <Petros> yep
Dec 20 14:18:09 <KotCzarny> if you dont do anything stupid in the code, gcc compiles it without a problem
Dec 20 14:18:15 <Petros> i also can't get gcc to work - it gets stuck on printf lines
Dec 20 14:18:42 <KotCzarny> you are doning something wrong, very
Dec 20 14:19:08 <Petros> lol maybe :P
Dec 20 14:19:22 <Petros> perhaps i can figure it out with some googling
Dec 20 14:19:23 <KotCzarny> first, what dev env are you using?
Dec 20 14:19:56 <Petros> uuum
Dec 20 14:19:58 <Petros> nano
Dec 20 14:20:22 <KotCzarny> k, where do you compile the code? what tools/versions?
Dec 20 14:20:43 <Petros> on my n810
Dec 20 14:20:50 <Petros> i used apt-get to install gcc
Dec 20 14:21:10 <KotCzarny> and you say you cant run hello world with printf?
Dec 20 14:21:32 <Petros> yep
Dec 20 14:21:56 <KotCzarny> which gcc ver/repo?
Dec 20 14:22:34 <Petros> gimme a sec
Dec 20 14:23:18 <Petros> ok this is weird
Dec 20 14:23:35 <Petros> i reflasshed recently and now gcc isn't availble
Dec 20 14:23:45 <Petros> i can't install it again
Dec 20 14:23:53 <KotCzarny> because its probably from sdk repo
Dec 20 14:24:07 <KotCzarny> which you should use carefully as it can f*ck up your os
Dec 20 14:24:50 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/
Dec 20 14:25:00 <KotCzarny> sdk repos are way down
Dec 20 14:25:17 <Petros> weird, i installed it like a month ago
Dec 20 14:25:25 <KotCzarny> but be cautious what do you install (rootfs space is little)
Dec 20 14:25:56 <Petros> ok i'll switch to my n900
Dec 20 14:26:07 <Petros> see if things are better over there
Dec 20 14:26:18 <KotCzarny> same story with n900, its not meant to be used to develop direclty
Dec 20 14:26:22 <KotCzarny> but can be done
Dec 20 14:26:31 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/g/gcc-4.2/
Dec 20 14:26:48 <KotCzarny> you can try installing gcc and other stuff one by one
Dec 20 14:26:55 <Petros> if i got an obsolete linux distro on would it make things easier?
Dec 20 14:26:58 <KotCzarny> but as i said, rootfs space
Dec 20 14:27:03 <Petros> maybe with chroot
Dec 20 14:27:12 <Petros> or to natively boot it
Dec 20 14:27:59 <KotCzarny> i have gcc on both my devices (n800 and n900). it can be done if you know what you are doing and know linux enough
Dec 20 14:28:41 <KotCzarny> but if you want to be safer, install scratchbox and sdk (on pc), or just grab prepared image for virtualbox
Dec 20 14:30:00 <Petros> while i mess with things around here i'll use this time to say thanks for the help so far :P
Dec 20 14:30:43 <KotCzarny> http://mirrors.muarf.org/maemo/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/
Dec 20 14:30:53 <KotCzarny> grab Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Dec 20 14:30:59 <KotCzarny> and just run it in virtualbox
Dec 20 14:32:48 <Petros> alright, so i'm trying to install the armel versions of gcc on my n900 but i get the incompatible blah blah error
Dec 20 14:32:55 <Petros> however i'm doing it with the applications manager
Dec 20 14:33:02 <Petros> should i use dpkg -i?
Dec 20 14:33:11 <KotCzarny> check free space first
Dec 20 14:33:21 <Petros> i have a lot of that
Dec 20 14:33:34 <KotCzarny> on / ?
Dec 20 14:33:38 <KotCzarny> check again
Dec 20 14:34:18 <Petros> 1,35 GB
Dec 20 14:34:22 <Petros> avaiable
Dec 20 14:34:30 <KotCzarny> you are looking at the wrong place
Dec 20 14:34:40 <KotCzarny> not /opt, but / or rootfs
Dec 20 14:34:49 <KotCzarny> unless you did something to your layout
Dec 20 14:35:10 <Petros> that was under the "memory for installable apps"
Dec 20 14:35:17 <Petros> which i assumed to be /
Dec 20 14:35:24 <KotCzarny> run terminal, do: df
Dec 20 14:35:28 <Petros> since the rest are my sd and the internal memory
Dec 20 14:35:29 <Petros> sec
Dec 20 14:36:23 <KotCzarny> that 1.35GB would be true if those packages were optimized (optified), otherwise if you grab the wrong thing it would go mostly to /
Dec 20 14:36:36 <Petros> guessing it's in kb
Dec 20 14:36:42 <Petros> i have 77mb available
Dec 20 14:37:03 <KotCzarny> should be enough then for experiments, but as i said, keep an eye on it
Dec 20 14:37:15 <Petros> will  do
Dec 20 14:37:37 <Petros> so should i try to install them with dpkg or are they actually incompatible?
Dec 20 14:38:17 <KotCzarny> i dont know the actual error, and you seem inexperienced in hacking things
Dec 20 14:38:28 <KotCzarny> if you want to use dpkg, try apt-get install before
Dec 20 14:38:50 <Petros> i am inexperienced but i really want to learn stuff
Dec 20 14:39:06 <Petros> i'm only 20 so i'm hoping i'm not late :P
Dec 20 14:40:19 <KotCzarny> nice thing about n8x0/n900 that even if you do the worst, you can always reflash
Dec 20 14:40:34 <KotCzarny> just make sure you haven't got anything valueable there
Dec 20 14:40:39 <Petros> ikr
Dec 20 14:40:53 <Petros> i've only bricked an htc dream a few years back
Dec 20 14:41:00 <Petros> bad radio flash :P
Dec 20 14:43:55 <Petros> so what knowledge would i need to learn more about "hacking"?
Dec 20 14:44:17 <KotCzarny> mostly about backups, reflashing, installing packages
Dec 20 14:44:27 <KotCzarny> command line too
Dec 20 14:44:32 <KotCzarny> (that's for starters)
Dec 20 14:44:49 <Petros> i think i'm becoming comfortable with these
Dec 20 14:44:58 <Petros> are the rest tools that i need to research?
Dec 20 14:46:09 <KotCzarny> you want hello world first, that means installing gcc at least
Dec 20 14:46:36 <Petros> i'm working on it
Dec 20 14:46:57 <Petros> i may need to reflash, i think i messed my sources up
Dec 20 14:47:33 <Petros> manually adding them with vi is a bitch
Dec 20 14:47:49 <KotCzarny> do you have a pc?
Dec 20 14:47:56 <Petros> on a phone anyway
Dec 20 14:47:57 <KotCzarny> ssh makes it easier
Dec 20 14:48:02 <Petros> aaaaah
Dec 20 14:48:05 <Petros> forgot aboutit
Dec 20 14:48:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 20 14:48:13 <Petros> lol
Dec 20 14:48:49 <Petros> is the name openssh?
Dec 20 14:49:06 <KotCzarny> apt-cache search ssh
Dec 20 14:49:46 <Petros> yep
Dec 20 14:49:56 <Petros> it says it had trouble processing catblock
Dec 20 14:50:13 <KotCzarny> apt-get remove catblock ?
Dec 20 14:50:38 <Petros> done
Dec 20 14:50:41 <Petros> retryibg'
Dec 20 14:50:45 <Petros> retrying*
Dec 20 14:50:58 <Petros> oh
Dec 20 14:51:03 <Petros> it can't remove it
Dec 20 14:51:34 <Petros> subprocess post-installation script > exit status 2
Dec 20 14:51:35 <KotCzarny> you can paste the output to pastebin.com or something
Dec 20 14:51:56 <Petros> oh
Dec 20 14:52:29 <Petros> unable to execute  post-installation script: No such file or directory
Dec 20 14:53:21 <Petros> same thing with apt-get install -f
Dec 20 14:53:25 <Petros> tries to configure catblock
Dec 20 14:54:01 <KotCzarny> you can try dpkg -r catblock
Dec 20 14:55:02 <Petros> same thing only it also gives a similar error while trying to execute a pre-removal script
Dec 20 14:56:18 <KotCzarny> apt-get install --reinstall catblock ?
Dec 20 14:56:58 <Petros> same
Dec 20 14:57:24 <Petros> what about booting to a linux distro?
Dec 20 14:57:35 <Petros> like arch or ubuntu or something
Dec 20 14:57:44 <KotCzarny> figure which file it whines about and add it as an empty script
Dec 20 14:57:54 <KotCzarny> i think there was easydebian
Dec 20 14:58:12 <Petros> wouldn't that waste too much ram
Dec 20 14:58:21 <KotCzarny> and booting other linux distros usually means losing telephony features
Dec 20 14:58:22 <Petros> having maemo run in the background alL THAT
Dec 20 14:58:51 <Petros> yeah
Dec 20 14:59:09 <Petros> i would like to work on that sometime
Dec 20 14:59:15 <Petros> getting stuff like that to work
Dec 20 14:59:27 <Petros> though it must sound ridiculous coming from me :P
Dec 20 14:59:31 <KotCzarny> fixing things is a great opportunity to learn
Dec 20 15:01:12 <Pali> freemangordon: fixed and pushed to github & cssu-devel
Dec 20 15:04:08 <Petros> do you have anything to suggest to broaden my knowledge?
Dec 20 15:04:24 <Petros> to be more comfortable or learn more about hacking and all that?
Dec 20 15:04:57 <KotCzarny> learn the command line and the package management first
Dec 20 15:05:15 <Petros> you mean how to use dpkg and apt?
Dec 20 15:05:27 <KotCzarny> that too
Dec 20 15:05:39 <Petros> what more is there?
Dec 20 15:05:53 <KotCzarny> knowing how it works
Dec 20 15:06:44 <Petros> so read the manuals?
Dec 20 15:06:57 <Petros> or find the sources and understand them?
Dec 20 15:07:04 <KotCzarny> manuals 
Dec 20 15:07:09 <KotCzarny> and google
Dec 20 15:07:17 <Petros> phew
Dec 20 15:07:19 <KotCzarny> start with that catblock
Dec 20 15:07:43 <KotCzarny> make it your homework #1
Dec 20 15:07:59 <Petros> noted
Dec 20 15:08:06 <Petros> once i'm done?
Dec 20 15:08:30 <KotCzarny> install gcc and friends
Dec 20 15:08:53 <Petros> so fight i will
Dec 20 15:08:56 <Petros> no reflashing
Dec 20 15:09:15 <KotCzarny> if it takes more than 3 days, reflash and grab the virtualbox image
Dec 20 15:10:28 <Petros> gotcha
Dec 20 15:10:34 <Petros> who's my next enemy?
Dec 20 15:11:12 <KotCzarny> who knows
Dec 20 15:11:31 <Petros> :P
Dec 20 15:11:40 <KotCzarny> bbl
Dec 20 15:12:15 <Petros> k
Dec 20 15:13:26 <sixwheeledbeast> what is catblock?
Dec 20 15:13:42 <Petros> that's what i'll be learning! :P
Dec 20 15:57:38 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: Do You have a deb pkg 4 xvkbd?
Dec 20 16:23:42 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: probably, let me find it
Dec 20 16:38:37 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: i've attached the files to the first post: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18621
Dec 20 16:38:49 <KotCzarny> drat, he left
Dec 20 17:21:31 <Petros> hello i'm back
Dec 20 17:21:50 <kerio> hi back, i'm kerio
Dec 20 17:21:52 <kerio> huehuehuehuehue
Dec 20 17:22:04 <Petros> nyoooooooo
Dec 20 17:22:08 <Petros> y u do dis
Dec 20 17:26:45 <bencoh> -_-
Dec 20 17:27:33 <kerio> aeuhauehuaheuhaeuae
Dec 20 18:27:08 <sixwheeledbeast> there's two people gone today...
Dec 20 18:28:34 <bencoh> ?
Dec 20 18:29:44 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: thanks. I got the files
Dec 20 18:39:23 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: it works, probably i would like not to have numpad, and bigger keys :)
Dec 20 19:32:31 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: its fully configurable
Dec 20 19:32:34 <KotCzarny> you can do both
Dec 20 19:32:58 <KotCzarny> you can change the layout as you want and you can change the def sizes in config files
Dec 20 19:50:55 <sunshavi> great, let's do it then ;)
Dec 20 19:51:58 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: xvkdb, could a replacement 4 not hildonizing emacs yet
Dec 20 20:05:16 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: what is "Com\nPose" for?
Dec 20 20:18:40 <Oksanaa> By the way, after I uninstalled wireshark, there was still /opt/maemo/usr/lib/wireshark/ directory with 20+MB. Is it just me, or does it need better clean-up postrm scripts?
Dec 20 20:31:15 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: dont remember all the linux/xorg key functions
Dec 20 20:31:29 <KotCzarny> probably something like altgr on windows 
Dec 20 20:35:51 <sunshavi> ok
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 21 02:59:58 2015