**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 26 02:59:58 2015
Dec 26 04:19:26 <Oksanaa> Barcode apps on Maemo need more work on them. Lasagne segfaults on me (not sure what its purpose is), mbarcode is good but out-of-date (just take a look at its web-plugins: most of them do not work, one way or another)
Dec 26 08:55:19 * Oksanaa wonders if many people check backlog... Anyway, mbarcode needs some updates, especially its web-plugin
Dec 26 08:58:31 <Oksanaa> It's nice to hear about upstreaming, by the way :-)
Dec 26 09:01:36 <sixwheeledbeast> Oksanaa: have you reported your segfault issue to Copernicus I am sure he will look at it
Dec 26 09:04:07 <Oksanaa> Hmm, one moment, looking up at tmo... I just tried out lasagne as the only mbarcode-alternative
Dec 26 09:07:10 * Oksanaa would have liked to package mbarcode plugin, which is akin to barcode-deciphering-database and works offline - right now, it's only posted in a tmo post, and is far from comprehensive
Dec 26 09:15:56 <freemangordon> Pali: re qemu issue -  looked in the boths sides code (kernel/qemu) and it seems like there is a kind of problem in qemu. What happens is - kernel tries to execute SDIO command, which is not supported by qemu, but for some reason kernel gets an response with no error. So instead of breaking SDIO init, it continues, effectively putting the card out of "idle" mode
Dec 26 09:17:02 <freemangordon> Maybe we should ask on the ML what is the proper way for qemu to report "SDIO not supported"
Dec 26 09:17:08 <Pali> freemangordon: hm... ok, but why stock nokia kernel is working with qemu?
Dec 26 09:17:25 <freemangordon> I guess it doesn't try SDIO
Dec 26 09:19:12 <freemangordon> or, we should check what is the response on the real HW when SDIO init is attempted and fiz qemu
Dec 26 09:19:15 <freemangordon> *fix
Dec 26 09:28:07 <Oksanaa> Hmm, does not segfault after reboot... Just calmly explains that camera lens cover is closed
Dec 26 09:32:01 <Oksanaa> What about making a barcode plugin for default camera? And barcode-plugin-for-camera would in turn be extendable by plugins (like mbarcode is)?
Dec 26 09:50:18 <jonwil> merry xmas everyone :)
Dec 26 10:10:43 <Oksanaa> merry yule, and may magic be with you and yours :-)
Dec 26 11:08:19 <freemangordon> jonwil: merry xmas :)
Dec 26 11:10:34 <Oksanaa> Anybody wishes to join the camera competition? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96130
Dec 26 13:11:22 <Pali> hi! if somebody has on any maemo device file /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/available-notifications please share it with me
Dec 26 13:11:41 <Pali> or if somebody knows format of that file, let me know!
Dec 26 13:12:06 <KotCzarny> hmm, i think you can trigger it by installing older pkg then checking packages
Dec 26 13:14:43 <Pali> KotCzarny: no
Dec 26 13:15:04 <Pali> this file is downloading from http://repository.maemo.org/application-notices/notice-{HARDWARE}-fremantle.html
Dec 26 13:15:18 <Pali> and we need to fix that file
Dec 26 13:15:49 <Pali> HAM is configured to download original file from location http://tableteer.nokia.com/application-notices/notice-RX-51-fremantle
Dec 26 13:16:00 <Pali> but original site does not working anymore
Dec 26 13:16:19 <Pali> and so I do not know format of that file :-(
Dec 26 13:19:05 <Sicelo> hmm, both my N900 don't have it
Dec 26 13:19:12 <KotCzarny> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=649557
Dec 26 13:19:17 <KotCzarny> this thread has some info about it
Dec 26 13:20:10 <Pali> Sicelo: before HAM trying to update that file, it remove it
Dec 26 13:20:55 <Pali> so we need either maemo device which was not turned on after nokia stopped that server
Dec 26 13:21:03 <Pali> or we need some backup
Dec 26 13:21:07 <Pali> which has it
Dec 26 13:21:45 <Pali> KotCzarny: in that thread is same URL for diablo: http://tableteer.nokia.com/application-notices/notice-${HARDWARE}-diablo
Dec 26 14:00:17 <Vajb> could that file be aquired from freshly flashed device?
Dec 26 14:00:24 <KotCzarny> unlikely
Dec 26 14:06:03 <Pali> Vajb: that file is downloading from tableteer.nokia.com
Dec 26 14:06:36 <Pali> so no, fresh flashed device cannot download it too, because server is down
Dec 26 14:06:42 <Vajb> ah i see. No further thoughts then
Dec 26 14:08:48 <Pali> anyway in cssu-devel is new package: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1492687&postcount=478
Dec 26 14:09:00 <Pali> fixes bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2141
Dec 26 14:09:03 <povbot> 04Bug 2141: Allow setting priority in Jabber/GTalk
Dec 26 14:26:11 <Pali> we have HAM sources...
Dec 26 14:26:18 <Pali> so I will try reconstruct that file
Dec 26 14:26:20 <Pali> format
Dec 26 14:51:33 <Pali> KotCzarny: I found format of that file! http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/testing.html
Dec 26 14:51:45 <Pali> http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/info-${HARDWARE}
Dec 26 14:51:58 <Pali> for HARDWARE RX-34, RX-44, or RX-48
Dec 26 14:53:33 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 26 14:58:18 <Pali> here are those files: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/hildon-app-mgr/www/
Dec 26 15:00:17 <Vajb> hmm jabber/gtalk bug reminded me of pidgin. It seems that maemo has pidgin-facebook plugin which uses (probably) facebook api. Problem is, it's not working
Dec 26 15:00:42 <Vajb> it gives me other option than facebook xmpp, but still no go
Dec 26 15:01:42 <Vajb> and there is pidgin plugin which is claimed to do it in desktop so person with enough skills could probably implement it to maemo's pidgin as well
Dec 26 15:02:03 <KotCzarny> s/skills/motivation/
Dec 26 15:02:05 <KotCzarny> ;)
Dec 26 15:02:27 <Vajb> oh right! Thats another reason :)
Dec 26 15:06:10 <Vajb> seems there is post about it in tmo also. sent 5 months ago and got zero replies :)
Dec 26 15:06:45 <Vajb> i was thinking of posting about it too, but since finding this i wont bother.
Dec 26 15:08:14 <Vajb> well if anyone cares i'll post link here https://github.com/jgeboski/purple-facebook
Dec 26 15:09:31 <Sicelo> it definitely works on pidgin (desktop) i tested it yesterday
Dec 26 15:10:02 <Sicelo> i may dust off my SB, but not making solemn promise, lol
Dec 26 15:10:25 <KotCzarny> vajb, have you considered learning c? :>
Dec 26 15:12:55 <Vajb> KotCzarny: yes i have, but seems i have came to conclusion of being too old...
Dec 26 15:13:03 <KotCzarny> nope
Dec 26 15:13:09 <KotCzarny> its very useful to know it
Dec 26 15:13:22 <Vajb> i believe that
Dec 26 15:23:04 <Pali> great, that format on http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/testing.html is working!
Dec 26 15:24:00 <KotCzarny> hoo-ray for diablo?
Dec 26 15:34:21 <Pali> KotCzarny: I changed URL in file /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/defaults
Dec 26 15:34:26 <Pali> to my server
Dec 26 15:34:39 <Pali> and put here XML file in that structure
Dec 26 15:34:57 <Pali> and my N900 show me notification update :-)
Dec 26 18:26:36 <freemangordon> Pali: now we only need to change DNS recoreds :D
Dec 26 18:26:51 <Pali> yes :D but no idea how...
Dec 26 18:27:11 <freemangordon> what was the URL?
Dec 26 18:28:09 <freemangordon> Pali: ^^^
Dec 26 18:28:27 <freemangordon> gound it
Dec 26 18:28:32 <Pali> original?
Dec 26 18:28:32 <freemangordon> *found
Dec 26 18:28:39 <Pali> http://tableteer.nokia.com/application-notices/notice-${HARDWARE}-fremantle
Dec 26 18:28:44 <freemangordon> yeah
Dec 26 18:29:20 <Pali> now we have new working URL: http://repository.maemo.org/application-notices/notice-${HARDWARE}-fremantle.html
Dec 26 18:29:30 <Pali> thanks to xes!
Dec 26 18:29:46 <freemangordon> Pali: when is that URL chaked?
Dec 26 18:29:49 <freemangordon> *checked
Dec 26 18:30:05 <Pali> when HAM doing checks
Dec 26 18:30:10 <freemangordon> oh, great
Dec 26 18:30:24 <freemangordon> so, DNS records are on Nokia servers
Dec 26 18:30:50 <Pali> every gconf seconds /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval
Dec 26 18:30:51 <freemangordon> so we should ask warfare to contact them
Dec 26 18:30:58 <freemangordon> yep, got it
Dec 26 18:31:16 <Pali> yes!
Dec 26 18:31:27 <freemangordon> that is how we can promote CSSU to non-TMO users
Dec 26 18:32:02 <Pali> you can edit /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/defaults file
Dec 26 18:32:12 <Pali> and try yourself :-) it should work
Dec 26 18:32:58 <freemangordon> or, we can (ab)use fmrx package
Dec 26 18:33:17 <freemangordon> and dpkg-divert that file
Dec 26 18:33:28 <freemangordon> instead of changing DNS records that is
Dec 26 18:34:10 <freemangordon> but I guess this is material for the next cssu meeting
Dec 26 18:44:19 <merlin1991> Pali: where do you want the mainline ham repo?
Dec 26 18:44:34 <Pali> merlin1991: do my hdd :D
Dec 26 18:45:18 <Pali> tar.gz repos to server, and I will download tarball
Dec 26 18:51:46 <merlin1991> Pali: http://cdnm.at/~christian/maemo/cssu/ham-mainline.tar.xz
Dec 26 18:52:18 <Pali> thanks!
Dec 26 18:52:28 <Pali> it is bzip2 not xz :-)
Dec 26 18:55:10 <merlin1991> ffs j vs J
Dec 26 18:55:15 * merlin1991 hangs his head in shame
Dec 26 18:55:39 <KotCzarny> public flogging time?
Dec 26 18:55:44 <merlin1991> seems like
Dec 26 18:56:24 <KotCzarny> at least its not zip wrapped in docx
Dec 26 18:56:30 <merlin1991> Pali: what's the difference between the maemo-camera-ui and the camera-ui repo?
Dec 26 18:56:54 <Pali> merlin1991: no idea, this is reason why I'm asking for that repo
Dec 26 18:57:21 <merlin1991> iirc they were the same, but I'll give them to you to investtigate
Dec 26 19:03:03 <merlin1991> Pali: the rest is in http://cdnm.at/~christian/maemo/cssu/backups/
Dec 26 19:03:19 <Pali> ok
Dec 26 19:03:35 <Pali> now merging HAM changes
Dec 26 19:09:18 <merlin1991> that's going to be interesting since we've divereged quite a lot already
Dec 26 19:10:04 <merlin1991> in case you're wondering community-ssu/hildon-home-wallpapers is the same as hildon-home that's why I didn't put it up
Dec 26 19:38:23 <freemangordon> Pali: merlin1991: what is that HAM mainline?
Dec 26 19:38:41 <Pali> freemangordon: wait, I will push changes to github
Dec 26 19:38:45 <Pali> merge comple
Dec 26 19:38:50 <Pali> te
Dec 26 19:39:04 <freemangordon> but, but, where did that come from?
Dec 26 19:40:04 <Pali> mainline HAM repository on github
Dec 26 19:40:12 <Pali> s/github/gitorious/
Dec 26 19:40:35 <Pali> at git://gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline.git
Dec 26 19:40:53 <freemangordon> and this is not what we use in CSSU?
Dec 26 19:41:05 <Pali> no)
Dec 26 19:41:13 <freemangordon> omg
Dec 26 19:41:47 <Pali> pushed
Dec 26 19:42:13 <Pali> only 6 new commits are there
Dec 26 19:42:48 <xes> at the end that gitorious backup has still some useful bit..
Dec 26 19:43:19 <freemangordon> why you didn;t push with rebase?
Dec 26 19:46:04 <freemangordon> Pali: at least list the commits in debian/changelog
Dec 26 19:48:18 <freemangordon> also, what kind of comment is that? https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager/commit/748d2e2ef0b948dbb84dee7f1e78fe98a88d6762#diff-ddaa7d6e643bc0d374add600b02445beR292
Dec 26 19:52:48 <Pali> debian/changelog commit is comming...
Dec 26 19:56:02 <bencoh> would it be possible to publish the gitorious backup ?
Dec 26 19:56:14 <bencoh> (ro http for instance)
Dec 26 19:56:24 <freemangordon> good idea
Dec 26 19:56:40 <freemangordon> I want to review those commits
Dec 26 19:59:20 <freemangordon> Pali: maybe just upload it on https://github.com/maemo-foss
Dec 26 19:59:46 <freemangordon> bencoh: you menat the whole backup?
Dec 26 19:59:53 <freemangordon> *meant
Dec 26 20:00:46 <sixwheeledbeast> I suppose I am a bit late to the party but I have .hildon-application-manager folders on my devices. They are on all the time.
Dec 26 20:03:30 <xes> whole backup? >150GB?
Dec 26 20:03:52 <freemangordon> yeah, not possible
Dec 26 20:04:57 <bencoh> freemangordon: yeah
Dec 26 20:05:32 <bencoh> it's not like people will fetch every single bit of it
Dec 26 20:10:02 <Pali> sixwheeledbeast: check if you have available file
Dec 26 20:10:28 <Pali> available-notifications file
Dec 26 20:11:11 <sixwheeledbeast> Pali: no only last, seen and tapped
Dec 26 20:14:26 <sixwheeledbeast> one device has a "packages.backup" file but not found an "available*" file
Dec 26 21:17:59 <DocScrutinizer05> what the heck are you hackers inventing there again? you're incredible :-D
Dec 26 21:20:20 <DocScrutinizer05> push news to HAM?
Dec 26 21:23:52 <Oksanaa> Just making sure that functionality does not become worse with time, and is not broken by infrastructure migration? ;-) Thanks a lot, by the way :-)
Dec 26 21:25:46 <DocScrutinizer05> well, aiui we got a few orphaned repos which were once hosted by Nokia and are essential to maemo5 devices. Best way to fix the issue would have been to update the signature key but that's over now. So next best thing would be a patch to /etc/hosts
Dec 26 21:27:42 <DocScrutinizer05> the tricky part is: such patch to etc/hosts would need to point to a IP that holds the repos, which is... questionable
Dec 26 21:29:14 <DocScrutinizer05> we once had a rather stable organizational infra in place, but that got nuked by a few stubborn councilors
Dec 26 21:30:04 <DocScrutinizer05> who didn't understand about the tricky politics immanent in such structure
Dec 26 21:31:24 <DocScrutinizer05> you need to be sort of schizoid to implement such stuff, and it doesn't help when others blame you for being schizoid
Dec 26 21:33:02 <DocScrutinizer05> there been a server called skeiron which had only approved material. Nobody knew who operated that server (I guess it was a guy in Singapore)
Dec 26 21:36:05 <DocScrutinizer05> nevertheless eventually a shitstorm broke loose against me, based on the allegation that I know that guy (a made up and never proven assumption)
Dec 26 21:37:24 <DocScrutinizer05> when the guy in Singapore heard about all that, he lost interest in running skeiron
Dec 26 21:38:04 <DocScrutinizer05> it turned into a dangerous swamp for him
Dec 26 21:43:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and even for me
Dec 26 21:49:08 <DocScrutinizer05> whois skeiron.org still works. last traces
Dec 26 21:49:17 <DocScrutinizer05> a pity
Dec 26 21:58:29 <jonwil> whats all this talk about repos and stuff?
Dec 26 22:00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: core repos gone south
Dec 26 22:01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> nice URL http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Maemo
Dec 26 22:02:24 <jonwil> yeah the nokia repos have been gone for a while (hence the fact that I am now using the maemo.muarf.org mirror :)
Dec 26 22:02:42 <jonwil> I am also using a different repo mirror (probably ovi) from maemo-repos.com
Dec 26 22:05:40 <jonwil> so what exactly is the discussion then? Something new about how to solve the core repo issue?
Dec 26 22:08:18 <sixwheeledbeast> jonwil: HAM and /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/available-notifications file
Dec 26 22:10:15 <sixwheeledbeast> starts here? http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2015-12-26.log.html#t2015-12-26T00:20:50
Dec 26 22:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ..and my rant about muarf being a nice but alas unapproved mirror
Dec 26 22:11:28 <jonwil> ok, so HAM will download a file from a nokia server. Big deal, this doesn't help us (we dont own that server)
Dec 26 22:12:38 <DocScrutinizer05> but when council gives excommunication and bashing to those who try to deal with approving and supporting obviously not-so-legal mirrors of copyrighted stuff, then we'll have to live with the situation that mirrors are not approved these days, and never again will be
Dec 26 22:14:10 <DocScrutinizer05> council and hildon foundation (or whatever is the name now) I have to say
Dec 26 22:15:49 <jonwil> Seems like the people who supposedly run this community aren't (or weren't if it was different people at the time) running for the benefit of Maemo as a whole
Dec 26 22:21:01 <DocScrutinizer05> this was the time of "we negotiate with Nokia. We must not tell any details. We don't want to talk with you as Nokia might not like this"
Dec 26 22:22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> one guy even claiming he might get sued for crimes *I* do 3 years into the future when he gives me some money today for something completely unrelated
Dec 26 22:23:52 <Oksanaa> Hmm, right now I am wondering if it is possible to negotiate with Nokia-Microsoft about DNS records...
Dec 26 22:24:01 <DocScrutinizer05> forget it
Dec 26 22:24:16 <DocScrutinizer05> we tried a dozen times
Dec 26 22:24:55 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia won't pass control over *.nokia.com domains to you, no matter what
Dec 26 22:25:36 <DocScrutinizer05> when you're lucky, you eventually might own the *.maemo.org domains
Dec 26 22:26:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, you already own the maemo.org - congrats, finally
Dec 26 22:29:31 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe you could check if HAM et al can work with it, and then get Nokia to change harmattan.nokia.com or whatever to a CNAME
Dec 26 22:33:12 <DocScrutinizer05> or maemo.downloads.nokia.com or whatever it been
Dec 26 22:33:24 <DocScrutinizer05> tabletteer.nokia.com
Dec 26 22:34:27 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare could request such changes and with some luck Nokia will implement them via their DNS management after weeks or months
Dec 26 22:51:25 <bencoh> I highly doubt you'd ever get any *.nokia.com domain :)
Dec 26 22:52:44 <bencoh> "maemo.org" is a different story - pretty much nobody (outside of our small tech communities) knows what it is or how it's related to nokia
Dec 26 22:52:55 <DocScrutinizer05> no way we ever get *.nokia.com
Dec 26 22:53:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: freemangordon: please explain http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2015-12-26.log.html#t2015-12-26T20:29:19 - I don't grok it
Dec 26 22:53:31 <bencoh> as for "unapproved mirrors", I hope nobody really gives that any attention nowadays
Dec 26 22:54:01 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: actually nobody but peeps in hildon foundation ever did
Dec 26 22:54:12 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: I gathered that :)
Dec 26 22:54:55 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05: HAM checks http page configured in system if it is not changed. and if it is changed it show notify message in status bar "new update" with text and link from that page
Dec 26 22:55:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia is obliged by contracts not to publish those closed blob bits (like e.g. flash plugin, PVR lib etc), but they even encouraged users at time to create mirrors
Dec 26 22:55:22 <bencoh> jonwil: btw, ovi is on maemo.muarf.org as well, but password-protected (with the password used for nokia repos)
Dec 26 22:55:34 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: :-)
Dec 26 22:55:37 <Pali> and we could use it to inform users that CSSU exists
Dec 26 22:55:58 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: which URL this page is on?
Dec 26 22:56:16 <bencoh> the tableteer one ?
Dec 26 22:56:20 <Pali> http://tableteer.nokia.com/application-notices/notice-RX-51-fremantle
Dec 26 22:56:35 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: alas that doesn't help since that's a Nokia URL
Dec 26 22:57:08 <DocScrutinizer05> we *might* talk Nokia into changing content of that page
Dec 26 22:57:44 <Pali> long time ago Quim Gill wrote us that Nokia is happy with redistributing closed Nokia (C) bits of Maemo sw
Dec 26 22:58:03 <DocScrutinizer05> alas to me it seems http://tableteer.nokia.com is dead
Dec 26 22:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> (quim) ack
Dec 26 22:58:37 <Pali> see dig, it resolve to 217.77.202.40
Dec 26 22:58:52 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, and?
Dec 26 22:58:59 <DocScrutinizer05> still no response
Dec 26 22:59:05 <Pali> is not it old ip range of maemo servers?
Dec 26 22:59:24 <bencoh> SATAMA-NET
Dec 26 22:59:33 <bencoh> mnt-by:         ELISA-MNT
Dec 26 22:59:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2015/12/26/plasma-desktopCS3616.png
Dec 26 23:00:04 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05: I know, but nokia still has A record in DNS
Dec 26 23:00:14 <bencoh> Pali: do you mean this page used to be hosted on maemo infra?
Dec 26 23:00:24 <Pali> yes
Dec 26 23:00:27 <bencoh> hmm
Dec 26 23:00:29 <DocScrutinizer05> umm, you could actually try convincing Nokia to point that URL to recent server IP
Dec 26 23:00:35 <bencoh> interesting
Dec 26 23:00:36 <bencoh> yeah
Dec 26 23:00:47 <bencoh> s/url/dns/
Dec 26 23:00:52 <Pali> anyway downloads.maemo.nokia.com does not have A record anymore
Dec 26 23:01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, dns
Dec 26 23:01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> we could ask nokia to create a new A record for that too
Dec 26 23:01:47 <Pali> or we can try to contact SATAMA-NET/ELISA-MNT :D
Dec 26 23:02:03 <DocScrutinizer05> but that won't help since *we* are not allowed to hos a repo mirror
Dec 26 23:02:08 <bencoh> or mnt-by:         XENETIC
Dec 26 23:02:27 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: maemo could do some redirection :°
Dec 26 23:02:40 <DocScrutinizer05> cyrcle closed
Dec 26 23:02:52 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05: we are not allowd to host our version of notice-RX-51-fremantle file??
Dec 26 23:02:58 <DocScrutinizer05> [2015-12-26 Sat 22:27:42] <DocScrutinizer05> the tricky part is: such patch to etc/hosts would need to point to a IP that holds the repos, which is... questionable
Dec 26 23:03:13 <bencoh> :)
Dec 26 23:03:50 <Pali> notice-RX-51-fremantle is announcement for *all* n900 devices with internet connection to show something
Dec 26 23:03:59 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: we are allowed to do that. We are not allowed to host the repos and stuff usually found under downloads.maemo.nokia.com
Dec 26 23:07:19 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway it seems to me the box behind http://tableteer.nokia.com is dead. A very usual thing with nokia boxes that are not maintained anymore but still akamai receives payment for the iron
Dec 26 23:07:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I've seen such zombie boxes linger on for years at nokia
Dec 26 23:08:06 <bencoh> hmm I dont think akamai is still hosting (or receiving anything) for d.m.n.c
Dec 26 23:08:25 <DocScrutinizer05> of course not since that's a dead domain
Dec 26 23:08:55 <bencoh> no I mean, even when hardcoding the akamai ip in /etc/hosts, they dont host anything there anymore
Dec 26 23:09:02 <DocScrutinizer05> though, you never know. I've even see zombie boxes under IPs where the DNS record vanished long ago
Dec 26 23:09:10 <bencoh> so nokia notified akamai
Dec 26 23:09:19 <DocScrutinizer05> aah ok
Dec 26 23:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> http://tableteer.nokia.com otoh obviously still exists
Dec 26 23:09:42 <bencoh> (I tried that when the maemo.n.c NS vanished)
Dec 26 23:10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> could run nmap against that box, to see if it's showing any sign of life still
Dec 26 23:10:41 <Pali> do you have A records of downloads.maemo.nokia.com?
Dec 26 23:10:48 <Pali> A records when worked?
Dec 26 23:11:45 <DocScrutinizer05> me not
Dec 26 23:14:48 <bencoh> I used to
Dec 26 23:15:24 <kerio> meh
Dec 26 23:15:38 <kerio> maemo is like super dead anyway :c
Dec 26 23:18:25 <jonwil> So Nokia unofficially has no problem with people hosting repo mirror but officially they cant endorse HiFo/maemo.org/etc hosting anything...
Dec 26 23:18:57 <xes> kerio: if it's dead, why are loosing your time here? :)
Dec 26 23:19:07 <kerio> necrophilia
Dec 26 23:19:43 <jonwil> I for one don't consider Maemo dead...
Dec 26 23:19:55 <kerio> the rotting, maggot-infested carcass of maemo 5 is still better than android
Dec 26 23:19:56 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: (endorse) exactly
Dec 26 23:21:48 <Pali> ok, so we can power-up unofficial mirror for downloads.maemo.nokia.com?
Dec 26 23:21:54 <Pali> without problems?
Dec 26 23:22:38 <xes> kerio: a walking dead is always better than a spy-worm's slave 
Dec 26 23:22:50 <kerio> indeed
Dec 26 23:25:32 <jonwil> Ultimately I suspect its all academic since I seriously doubt MS/Nokia would ever point any *.nokia.com domain to any machine they don't control.
Dec 26 23:26:04 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: yes, aiui
Dec 26 23:26:41 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: ack
Dec 26 23:26:52 <Pali> do you have any contact to nokia?
Dec 26 23:27:09 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, afaik nobody has anymore
Dec 26 23:27:36 <DocScrutinizer05> there is no more nokia, as far as maemo is concerned
Dec 26 23:28:21 <DocScrutinizer05> if anybody still has any contacts then that's HiFo
Dec 26 23:29:02 <DocScrutinizer05> but I seem to remember their last contact waved a farewell long ago
Dec 26 23:33:24 <Pali> http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/mobile/support/product/n900/softwareupdate/
Dec 26 23:34:01 <jonwil> I dont see any reason why another mirror of downloads.maemo.nokia.com would somehow be any more useful than of maemo.muarf.org or maemo-repos.com
Dec 26 23:34:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: ROFL
Dec 26 23:35:08 <jonwil> I suspect that page is simply something from an old Nokia webpage grabbed up and reformatted onto a MS websie
Dec 26 23:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: it only would be more useful if it was as smartly crafted into a sekrit organizational network as skeiron was
Dec 26 23:35:53 <Pali> http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/mobile/support/product/n900/faq/?action=singleTopic&topic=FA121619&category=warrantyandrepair
Dec 26 23:35:57 <Pali> :D:D
Dec 26 23:36:22 <kerio> wat
Dec 26 23:36:33 <Pali> dists/mistral
Dec 26 23:36:51 <Pali> Could not resolve 'repositor.maemo.org'.
Dec 26 23:36:52 <Pali> :D
Dec 26 23:37:15 <DocScrutinizer05> "was this helpful?" [X]NO
Dec 26 23:38:15 <jonwil> what made skeiron better than other mirrors?
Dec 26 23:38:40 <bencoh> they existed at that time :)
Dec 26 23:39:06 <bencoh> err, they did not existed at that time
Dec 26 23:41:17 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: it was embedded into a sekrit organizational framework that ensured that the content on skeiron was authentic and untampered
Dec 26 23:41:51 <DocScrutinizer05> it also was maximum comprehensive
Dec 26 23:42:10 <DocScrutinizer05> with almost 2TB of data
Dec 26 23:42:59 <DocScrutinizer05> and though council and HiFo never knew, they actually had some indirect control over it
Dec 26 23:43:40 <DocScrutinizer05> they used that indirect control to nuke it
Dec 26 23:44:41 <DocScrutinizer05> now we got mirrors we know zilch about
Dec 26 23:46:05 <Pali> what happened with skeiron mirror?
Dec 26 23:46:24 <jonwil> AFAIK the mirrors we have are still signed (just with an expired key) so we should be able to verify that the signature is intact and the files on those mirrors are genuine
Dec 26 23:46:32 <DocScrutinizer05> it got discontinued when peeps at HiFo started bitching and acting destructive
Dec 26 23:48:36 <DocScrutinizer05> to make things more bizarre: same peeps who formerly helped in inventing and supporting the whole thing
Dec 26 23:51:09 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: sure, that's true for the Nokia repos
Dec 26 23:52:09 <DocScrutinizer05> however that doesn't prevent any fraudulent stuff getting done to them tomorrow
Dec 26 23:52:44 <jonwil> Are there any other repos other than the Nokia repos (downloads.maemo.nokia.com) and the repos that exist on *.maemo.org?
Dec 26 23:52:50 <DocScrutinizer05> also note that we as well have no control whatsoever over the domain
Dec 26 23:53:56 <DocScrutinizer05> so if muarf or whatever mirror vanishes tomorrow, we're at square zero again
Dec 26 23:54:58 <DocScrutinizer05> well, we can't do much about it. So it's futile to discuss it
Dec 26 23:59:33 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if a CNAME for the downloads.maemo.nokia.com domain would work with ham/apt
Dec 27 00:01:09 <DocScrutinizer05> or a HTTP forward (301 Moved Permanently)
Dec 27 00:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> dos1: could we create a subdomain downloads.maemo.neo900.org? and for now point it to muarf?
Dec 27 00:04:43 <DocScrutinizer05> by either an A, CNAME, or even a webpage with a 301 - whatever works best for HAM
Dec 27 00:07:37 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i think our apt doesn't follow redirects, idk about HAM though
Dec 27 00:07:37 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, HAM uses apt
Dec 27 00:07:37 <kerio> yeah but it's its own implementation, or something
Dec 27 00:07:37 <DocScrutinizer05> k
Dec 27 00:07:38 <dos1> DocScrutinizer05: we could, but for A/CNAME it most likely needs webserver config support on muarf side
Dec 27 00:07:38 <dos1> (vhost)
Dec 27 00:07:38 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Dec 27 00:07:38 <kerio> it's all in apt-worker
Dec 27 00:07:38 <DocScrutinizer05> that's what I meant by "we have no control over muarf"
Dec 27 00:18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> dos1: could we test if muarf has a catch-all (*) vhost?
Dec 27 00:18:40 <dos1> I have downloads.maemo.nokia.com pointed via /etc/hosts to my local PC configured to accept this vhost
Dec 27 00:18:40 <dos1> sure, just give me a link to muarf
Dec 27 00:18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~repo
Dec 27 00:18:40 <infobot> repos is probably "deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ ;; deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./", or see http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
Dec 27 00:18:58 <dos1> nope, default vhosts points to something that returns HTTP/1.1 401 Authorization Required
Dec 27 00:18:58 <dos1> s/vhosts/vhost/
Dec 27 00:18:58 <infobot> dos1 meant: nope, default vhost points to something that returns HTTP/1.1 401 Authorization Required
Dec 27 00:18:58 <DocScrutinizer05> grr
Dec 27 00:19:11 <DocScrutinizer05> we need a mirror that allows council to point to it via a DNS record the community has under direct control
Dec 27 00:19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> so if anybody decides to take down the mirror, the DNS could get updated to point to another one
Dec 27 00:19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> or would the domain owner be responsible for content under a IP he doesn't own?
Dec 27 00:19:12 <dos1> I think that might depend on jurisdiction
Dec 27 00:19:13 <DocScrutinizer05> when neo900 points A to muarf, if somebody approaches me I only can take down the DNS record since I got no clue where and who is muarf
Dec 27 00:19:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd prefer a CNAME or 301 though
Dec 27 00:19:13 <DocScrutinizer05> CNAME should be resolver level, 301 alas is HTTP level
Dec 27 00:19:14 <dos1> A and CNAME are here virtually the same cases, the only thing that changes is that we wouldn't have to update our domain is muarf A record changes
Dec 27 00:19:14 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Dec 27 00:19:14 <DocScrutinizer05> CNAME however documents that we're not necessarily owner of the domain
Dec 27 00:19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and since we're not related to council, we may point to a domain we shouldn't point to if we were council or HiFo
Dec 27 00:19:33 <dos1> well, instead of pointing to IP, you point to another domain - and you don't own that domain just the same way you don't own that IP
Dec 27 00:20:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, *I* know that ;-)
Dec 27 00:20:27 <dos1> not trying to explain technicalities to you :D I just don't see anything "documented" there regading the ownership
Dec 27 00:20:40 <DocScrutinizer05> the amount of ownership info differs between IP and domain though
Dec 27 00:21:19 <DocScrutinizer05> CNAME muarf.org; whois muarf.org
Dec 27 00:21:35 <dos1> ah, "look, whois says it's not mine" :)
Dec 27 00:21:38 <DocScrutinizer05> A <IP-of-muarf.org>;  ??? IP
Dec 27 00:22:03 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, exactly
Dec 27 00:23:25 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: would you consider using a "downloads.maemo.maemo.org CNAME muarf.org" a thing we might dare to do?
Dec 27 00:26:24 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly using a 'foreign domain' like downloads.maemo.neo900.org is less conflict potential for the maemo 'authorities'
Dec 27 00:29:50 <DocScrutinizer05> actually it's jussi who 'owns' maemo.org
Dec 27 00:30:15 <DocScrutinizer05> according to whois
Dec 27 00:30:41 <DocScrutinizer05> of course HiFo/whovernow-eV is the legal owner
Dec 27 00:56:54 <M-bobsummerwill> Hello everyone!   I'm a bit late to the party, I know but ...
Dec 27 00:56:55 <M-bobsummerwill> https://twitter.com/doublethink_co/status/680056050880389120?s=09
Dec 27 01:16:34 <DocScrutinizer05> humm, what is ethereum?
Dec 27 01:18:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the N+1'th container implementation?
Dec 27 01:51:18 <Luke-Jr> DocScrutinizer05: a group of guys learning consensus systems; (possibly legally) funded by idiots who think it will become the next Bitcoin
Dec 27 01:51:49 <DocScrutinizer05> duh, realy?
Dec 27 01:52:39 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.ethereum.org/ didn't give that away
Dec 27 01:53:33 <DocScrutinizer05> oh yeah, keywords "contracts" and "blockchain"
Dec 27 01:56:48 <Luke-Jr> there may be ethical problems with their public-facing promotional materials (but I don't have time to go through them and state for certain)
Dec 27 01:58:24 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed that website doesn't tell too much about what this stuff _really_ is and does. I mean... "Ethereum is how the Internet was supposed to work." really now?
Dec 27 01:58:55 <Luke-Jr> they take too much in the footsteps of many scam "altcoins" before them
Dec 27 02:00:04 <Luke-Jr> basically trying to keep the scamcoin 'profits' but do it legit
Dec 27 02:00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Ether is the internal 'fuel' of Ethereum. Programs running on Ethereum need to pay the network for the resources they consume.<<
Dec 27 02:00:53 <DocScrutinizer05> all sounds *very* cloudy and weird
Dec 27 02:02:06 <Luke-Jr> it's basically stupid, but hopefully they'll learn something in the process of doing it
Dec 27 02:02:07 <DocScrutinizer05> why the heck would I "run a program on Ethereum"?
Dec 27 02:02:32 <Luke-Jr> (no reasons come to mind)
Dec 27 02:04:08 <DocScrutinizer05> if this is the future then please I want to die before it becomes prevalent
Dec 27 02:04:54 <Luke-Jr> it isn't. :P
Dec 27 02:05:24 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin has scaling problems already; with Ethereum's nonsense, those become 100000000 times worse
Dec 27 02:05:32 <Luke-Jr> and Bitcoin's solutions no longer really work
Dec 27 02:06:10 <Luke-Jr> essentially every program run "on Ethereum" really means every single computer in the Ethereum network is independently and redundantly executing it
Dec 27 02:06:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
Dec 27 02:07:17 <Luke-Jr> the same is more or less true of Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is specifically a single *simple* purpose (currency/finance), and there is scalability work to cut-through overlapping transfers
Dec 27 02:07:43 <DocScrutinizer05> doubleplusOUCH
Dec 27 02:07:53 <Luke-Jr> (that is, if A pays B, B pays C, and C pays A, only the differences get settled on the public/shared ledger)
Dec 27 02:08:04 <Luke-Jr> (more complex routing also possible of course)
Dec 27 02:08:57 <DocScrutinizer05> such a thing obviously can't scale
Dec 27 02:10:58 <Luke-Jr> DocScrutinizer05: the routing network is implemented without the shared execution
Dec 27 02:11:55 <DocScrutinizer05> M-bobsummerwill: >>So I have *cracked* and bought a N900 on eBay to see for myself what is so special about it.<< welcome on board :-) and you'll notice the most special thing about N900 is that there's aömost nothing special with it. It's smply a very small linux computer, with a phone built in
Dec 27 02:13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> a slightly unusual desktop manager called hildon - though you *could* even run KDE or whatever you like, on it
Dec 27 02:14:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's the very unusual thing for a phone: it's a very usual linux PC
Dec 27 02:21:04 <DocScrutinizer05> M-bobsummerwill: or simply watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66RBfrBgL2E
Dec 27 02:37:21 <DocScrutinizer05> M-bobsummerwill: first thing you want to do on N900: ~flashing anew, then open browser and navigate to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/muarf.install
Dec 27 02:37:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
Dec 27 02:37:33 <infobot> maemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh
Dec 27 02:38:31 <DocScrutinizer05> then:
Dec 27 02:38:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu
Dec 27 02:38:35 <infobot> hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
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