**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 23 02:59:58 2016
Jan 23 04:35:00 * Maxdamantus might look into fixing camera-ui.
Jan 23 04:35:38 <Maxdamantus> Can never seem to unmount then remount the SD card and have camera-ui still work.
Jan 23 04:36:04 <Maxdamantus> and stracing it again, I'm reminded that whenever you try to focus it scans a bunch of icon files and stuff in the filesystem.
Jan 23 04:38:40 * Maxdamantus would also like to get it so the focus can be locked.
Jan 23 06:45:03 <Sicelo> ceene: looks like yappari days coming to an end?
Jan 23 06:45:07 <Sicelo> :)
Jan 23 07:05:54 <DocScrutinizer05> a slightly off topic advice: when you try to copy 200GB from SATA ext4 to USB3 attached ntfs under linux, you're better off to nice and ionice the mount.ntfs [SIC!] process as well as the cp
Jan 23 07:07:01 <DocScrutinizer05> it's incredible how a simple cp in a user shell can freeze the complete GUI
Jan 23 07:08:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not too surprised now that copying large amounts of data from eMMC to uSD (or vice versa) on maemo has similar nasty effects
Jan 23 07:10:58 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/89945088
Jan 23 07:11:06 <Maxdamantus> DocScrutinizer05: how big are the files?
Jan 23 07:11:19 * Maxdamantus has noticed ntfs-3g struggles with large files.
Jan 23 07:11:43 <Maxdamantus> struggles as in: uses insane amounts of CPU for some reason.
Jan 23 07:12:29 <Maxdamantus> though large as in a few tens of GB.
Jan 23 07:14:18 <Maxdamantus> Linux's general write caching behaviour does often seem annoying too, but that's not related to the weird ntfs-3g behaviour.
Jan 23 07:15:17 <Maxdamantus> (that's relevant when copying from a fast source to a slower one—it quickly exhausts the system's writeback cache so everything else doing writes suffers)
Jan 23 07:16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> if you wonder: .flac, .iso, .vob
Jan 23 07:17:27 <Maxdamantus> Mk, probably not that big then.
Jan 23 07:17:39 <Maxdamantus> It'll probably just be the general Linux caching issue.
Jan 23 07:17:53 <KotCzarny> maxd, iso and vob can be tens of gigs big
Jan 23 07:18:09 <Maxdamantus> I sometimes periodically STOP/CONT the copying process.
Jan 23 07:18:16 <KotCzarny> and yes, ntfs is nasty with big files
Jan 23 07:18:23 <Maxdamantus> KotCzarny: unlikely for VOB, since DVDs usually split them into 1 GiB files.
Jan 23 07:18:46 <Maxdamantus> and if they're not from DVDs .. kind of weird to distribute stuff using VOB.
Jan 23 07:21:19 <Maxdamantus> With the STOP/CONT method, you don't lose any efficiency, just as long as you always continue it again before the writeback cache is empty (look for dirty size in /proc/meminfo)
Jan 23 07:21:56 <KotCzarny> maybe its some inherent fallacy with ntfs and big files
Jan 23 07:22:10 <KotCzarny> hard to think ntfs-3g guys overlooked the issue
Jan 23 07:22:25 <KotCzarny> (it's present in all releases i've seen)
Jan 23 07:22:37 <Maxdamantus> I think when I looked into it there might have been some suggestion about lack of proper handling of fragmentation or something.
Jan 23 07:22:59 <Maxdamantus> (but again, that's independent of the other caching issue in Linux)
Jan 23 07:30:10 <DocScrutinizer05> wow, finished
Jan 23 07:36:28 <Maxdamantus> 19:51 < Maxdamantus> while killall -STOP rsync; do while (($(cat /proc/meminfo | sed '/^Dirty/!d; s/^.*: *//; s/ .*$//') > 2000000)); do sleep 5; done; killall -CONT rsync; sleep 10; done
Jan 23 07:36:40 <Maxdamantus> Something I found in my logs.
Jan 23 08:57:24 <Maxdamantus> Hm. camera-ui seems to have many strange behaviours.
Jan 23 08:57:31 <Maxdamantus> Well, strange implementation behaviours.
Jan 23 08:57:40 * Maxdamantus wonders how similar they are to the original version.
Jan 23 11:09:21 <ceene> Sicelo: it may be
Jan 23 11:09:34 <ceene> i've woken up to it
Jan 23 11:28:37 <ceene> let's try and see what i can do
Jan 23 11:57:16 <ceene> Sicelo: i've upgraded version numbers and that's been enough
Jan 23 11:57:22 <ceene> i'm uploading this version right now
Jan 23 11:57:36 <DocScrutinizer05> moin
Jan 23 15:01:27 <Vajb> Sicelo: yeah i got "connection closed by server" in yappari. Guess im banned then
Jan 23 15:10:46 <ceene> Vajb: you aren't
Jan 23 15:10:51 <ceene> just need to upgrade to latest version
Jan 23 15:11:00 <ceene> that is currently on its way to reach the repos
Jan 23 15:11:09 <ceene> but which is already linked on the TMO post :)
Jan 23 15:22:22 <Vajb> app manager shows upgrade and im installing it
Jan 23 15:22:31 <ceene> it should be 2.0.23
Jan 23 15:22:37 <Vajb> ok
Jan 23 15:22:41 <ceene> let me know if you have any problem with it
Jan 23 15:22:48 <Vajb> yeah it is
Jan 23 15:23:10 <Vajb> just waiting install to finnish
Jan 23 15:29:13 <Vajb> ceene: it's alive, thx :)
Jan 23 15:29:53 <ceene> great! :)
Jan 23 22:18:16 <fishbulb> hey
Jan 23 22:18:20 <fishbulb> are the yappari guys here?
Jan 23 22:18:33 <fishbulb> connection keeps being closed by server. it was working all night, now no go
Jan 23 22:19:00 <fishbulb> if this thing is done, I think so is my n900
Jan 23 22:21:20 <ceene> fishbulb: when yappari stops working you should always go look at the TMO thread
Jan 23 22:21:34 <fishbulb> the what thread
Jan 23 22:21:58 <fishbulb> I don't really look at any of them, this thing barely works as a phone these days
Jan 23 22:22:46 <fishbulb> it's literally the keyboard and lack of money or giving a crap that prevents me from switching to an android device
Jan 23 22:22:56 <ceene> if you don't read the forums at talk.maemo.org you definitely miss the lot of things that are happening with this "not a phone" of yours :)
Jan 23 22:23:10 <fishbulb> I'm sure I do
Jan 23 22:23:13 <ceene> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94465
Jan 23 22:24:21 <fishbulb> aw man.
Jan 23 22:24:23 <fishbulb> so that's the end
Jan 23 22:24:32 <fishbulb> it's up to random strangers to github it
Jan 23 22:24:49 <fishbulb> what's an n900 worth these days?
Jan 23 22:24:51 <ceene> why do you say that?
Jan 23 22:25:01 <fishbulb> that page says development has stopped
Jan 23 22:25:13 <ceene> man
Jan 23 22:25:19 <fishbulb> and so far, it's been constant problems and bans
Jan 23 22:25:23 <ceene> you really need some reading comprehesion skills
Jan 23 22:25:43 <ceene> i've been maintainig yappari for a year now
Jan 23 22:25:49 <ceene> and latest release is available as of today
Jan 23 22:26:09 <ceene> latest version: 2.0.23 is in big bold letters
Jan 23 22:26:28 <fishbulb> oh
Jan 23 22:26:33 <fishbulb> I apt get it?
Jan 23 22:26:42 <fishbulb> I don't think extras repo is even enabled
Jan 23 22:26:53 <fishbulb> I mean extras testing
Jan 23 22:27:02 <ceene> you read the whole post and try to comprehend it, and if you don't have repos you use some of the links on that very same post :)
Jan 23 22:27:19 <ceene> maybe it's a bit verbose, i won't deny that
Jan 23 22:27:21 <fishbulb> been up a couple of days and my brain isnt' working that well.
Jan 23 22:27:43 <fishbulb> I have to stay up another 12 hours
Jan 23 22:27:57 <ceene> that's not healthy
Jan 23 22:28:03 <fishbulb> it's not.
Jan 23 22:28:35 <ceene> i think after 48 hours of nonseep hallucinations begin to occur
Jan 23 22:28:48 <ceene> you could die of that
Jan 23 22:29:09 <fishbulb> I've heard it's possible
Jan 23 22:29:53 <fishbulb> I don't mean two full 24 hour days, more like 30something, and if I don't want to mess this job up on monday I have to stay awake long enough so that I wake up in the morning
Jan 23 22:31:04 <fishbulb> because having an apartment and power and stuff like that is a priveledge.
Jan 23 22:31:16 <ceene> it would seem sometimes, yeah
Jan 23 22:31:58 <fishbulb> well what's the alternative
Jan 23 22:32:34 <ceene> citizen and workforce union i guess
Jan 23 22:32:52 <fishbulb> erm. what?
Jan 23 22:32:56 <ceene> lol
Jan 23 22:33:01 <ceene> have you found the link for yappari?
Jan 23 22:33:10 <fishbulb> it would help if I was a citizen of this country I suppose.
Jan 23 22:33:30 <fishbulb> I can probably do without it.
Jan 23 22:33:41 <ceene> right below 2.0.23
Jan 23 22:33:53 <ceene>  Once autobuilder finishes, package will be available at extras-devel <- that is clickable
Jan 23 22:33:54 <fishbulb> if I don't mess things up
Jan 23 22:35:36 <fishbulb> I'll just leave it until I'm a bit more focussed.
Jan 23 22:36:10 <ceene> you should try and get some sleep
Jan 23 22:36:27 <ceene> if you try to do some useful work in a sleep deprivation state you will more surely fuck it up
Jan 23 22:36:30 <fishbulb> if I do I'll wake up in the middle of the night and screw up this job stuff tomorrow
Jan 23 22:36:57 <fishbulb> well that's why I'm watching stuff, eating stuff, and playing the dumbest game I can think of
Jan 23 22:37:00 <fishbulb> fallout 4 :/
Jan 23 22:37:26 <fishbulb> this honestly is a pretty brainless piece of crap. in a way it's close to sleeping
Jan 23 22:37:40 <fishbulb> I mean meditation would be better, but I'd fall asleep
Jan 23 22:38:08 <ceene> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/y/yappari/yappari_2.0.23_armel.deb
Jan 23 22:38:11 <fishbulb> so the new version is out in the last few hours? is that why it was working until a couple of hours ago?
Jan 23 22:38:23 <fishbulb> yeah I'm on a computer not my phone
Jan 23 22:38:30 <ceene> it's been working fine for months, really
Jan 23 22:38:34 <ceene> but as of yesterday
Jan 23 22:38:43 <ceene> whatsapp stopped allowing old clients to connect
Jan 23 22:38:48 <fishbulb> yeah I was geting some dropped messages
Jan 23 22:39:02 <fishbulb> oh. so it really worked longer than it should have?
Jan 23 22:39:19 <ceene> well, i think it's not always the same for everyone
Jan 23 22:39:38 <ceene> they must have several servers and depending on where you are the changes sometimes don't affect everyone at the same time
Jan 23 22:39:57 <fishbulb> yup. well good to know it's very recent
Jan 23 22:40:08 <ceene> 12 hours ago or so i fixed it and pushed it to the repos
Jan 23 22:40:17 <ceene> but they sometimes take a few hours to appear there
Jan 23 22:40:17 <fishbulb> oh cool.
Jan 23 22:40:45 <fishbulb> I don't have those enabled
Jan 23 22:40:51 <fishbulb> the devel one in particular
Jan 23 22:41:17 <ceene> you should enable testing
Jan 23 22:41:33 <fishbulb> I feel like I've been using this phone for all this time and not known most of the shortcuts or whatever
Jan 23 22:41:41 <ceene> nowadays stable is pretty much stalled because nobody cares to vote for new packages to make ti to the stable section
Jan 23 22:41:54 <fishbulb> how many users would you guess there still are?
Jan 23 22:42:08 <ceene> a few hundred i guess
Jan 23 22:42:15 <fishbulb> worldwide?
Jan 23 22:42:18 <ceene> yep
Jan 23 22:42:30 <ceene> well, here in the irc there are right now 185 people
Jan 23 22:42:42 <ceene> few of us talk, however
Jan 23 22:42:44 <fishbulb> a few double ups but yeah
Jan 23 22:42:53 <ceene> but i guess at least a few read us
Jan 23 22:43:11 <ceene> i just bought last week another n900
Jan 23 22:43:16 <ceene> to have one to tinker with
Jan 23 22:43:35 <fishbulb> I had 3, I dropped mine in the toilet, and had to change the screen
Jan 23 22:44:01 <ceene> do you use it only because of the keyboard?
Jan 23 22:44:15 <fishbulb> basically yeah. and I hate a hundred stupid apps bleeping at me
Jan 23 22:44:47 <ceene> well, the apps usually are only there if you install them
Jan 23 22:44:49 <fishbulb> it calls, it texts, it tells me sort of where I'm going with gps. nothing else bleeps, bongs, dings and annoys me when I'm away from an actual computer
Jan 23 22:45:07 <ceene> but yeah, they keyboard is a killer feature for me too
Jan 23 22:45:34 <fishbulb> even on a nexus tablet I cannot stand trying to type with zero tactile feedback
Jan 23 22:45:58 <fishbulb> and a whole giant company devoted to correcting the mistakes of that stupid smudgy piece of onscreen shit
Jan 23 22:46:28 <fishbulb> if I could reliably graft this keyboard onto another phone... I'd  have something else.
Jan 23 22:46:52 <ceene> there are bluetooth keyboards
Jan 23 22:47:02 <fishbulb> I have a couple and they're not good
Jan 23 22:47:12 <fishbulb> this really is the best tiny keyboard I've ever used.
Jan 23 22:48:56 <ceene> i had once an android phone with very much the same form factor as the n900
Jan 23 22:49:03 <ceene> sadly its flash memory died
Jan 23 22:49:26 <fishbulb> I did wonder about that one, it was back when android was in 2.something
Jan 23 22:49:46 <fishbulb> I have a nexus 7 and even typing on that is horrific
Jan 23 22:49:46 <ceene> yes, this one was a geeksphone
Jan 23 22:50:32 <fishbulb> well thanks for compiling the new whatsapp
Jan 23 22:51:03 <ceene> oh, you're wellcome
Jan 23 22:51:07 <ceene> i hope it lasts a long time
Jan 23 22:51:11 <fishbulb> I'll deal with that in a while, it's refusing to connect so the australian whatsapp must have changed over to... new stuff. sunday would be the day for it. and it's sunday
Jan 23 22:51:27 <fishbulb> sunday morning when most poeple are hungover or asleep
Jan 23 22:52:16 <ceene> well, you're hours ahead of me, yet it has worked more hours for you
Jan 23 22:52:33 <fishbulb> yeah I used it at about 5am
Jan 23 22:52:48 <fishbulb> this is australia.
Jan 23 22:52:56 <ceene> i found it broke for me 24 hours ago
Jan 23 22:53:07 <ceene> here in Spain it's almost 00:00 now
Jan 23 22:53:08 <fishbulb> I was getting some errors for sure. missed messages
Jan 23 22:53:12 <fishbulb> maybe it was just hanging on
Jan 23 22:53:26 <ceene> what version do you use?
Jan 23 22:53:44 <ceene> you may be using an older version that lost messages that were being sent with encryption on
Jan 23 22:53:54 <ceene> with the latest version you shouldn't lose anything
Jan 23 22:54:05 <fishbulb> 2.0.22
Jan 23 22:56:00 <fishbulb> so I'll keep my messages?
Jan 23 22:56:48 <fishbulb> there's some important ones from a girl I just broke up with, I'd rather not lose the last few days
Jan 23 22:57:01 <ceene> they should be there
Jan 23 22:57:05 <ceene> you can always backup them
Jan 23 22:57:17 <fishbulb> I didn't think to see how it worked
Jan 23 22:57:28 <fishbulb> I'll do it in a day or if 
Jan 23 22:57:40 <ceene> /home/user/.yappari/logs/
Jan 23 22:57:45 <fishbulb> ah
Jan 23 22:58:04 <ceene> there's a log for each chat, personal or group
Jan 23 22:58:06 <fishbulb> can I use usb to browse through directories
Jan 23 22:58:09 <ceene> they are sqlite3 files
Jan 23 22:58:14 <fishbulb> I'm on arch here
Jan 23 22:58:25 <fishbulb> someone said don't use group chats
Jan 23 22:58:34 <ceene> you must not create a group
Jan 23 22:58:38 <ceene> or you will get banned
Jan 23 22:58:44 <ceene> but if someone else creates it you can use it
Jan 23 22:58:47 <fishbulb> I have no need to do that
Jan 23 22:58:58 <fishbulb> it's the only way I can send photos to people
Jan 23 22:59:19 <fishbulb> and it's less annoying than texting
Jan 23 22:59:59 <fishbulb> they have to start whatsapp and read the messages so it doesn't disturb them
Jan 23 23:00:05 <fishbulb> (I assume)
Jan 23 23:00:24 <ceene> well, it still bips and alerts them
Jan 23 23:02:06 <fishbulb> I wouldn't know, I don't have any other type of phone
Jan 23 23:02:19 <fishbulb> they can turn data off I assume?
Jan 23 23:02:39 <fishbulb> I haven't used a modern phone for longer than a few minutes
Jan 23 23:02:54 <fishbulb> this thing is 7 years old.
Jan 23 23:03:10 <fishbulb> anyway cheers, later
Jan 23 23:03:16 <ceene> cya, good luck
Jan 23 23:04:10 <ceene> Pali: ping
Jan 23 23:04:20 <Pali> ceene: pong
Jan 23 23:04:23 <ceene> hi!
Jan 23 23:04:35 <jon_y> fishbulb: evidence for the police? :)
Jan 23 23:04:43 <ceene> i've compiled your kernel and loaded a small root filesystem
Jan 23 23:04:53 <fishbulb> what police
Jan 23 23:04:56 <ceene> but after something like 5 seconds or so, it reboots itself
Jan 23 23:05:09 <jon_y> your whatsapp messages :)
Jan 23 23:05:09 <ceene> is there some watchdog or something like that?
Jan 23 23:05:19 <fishbulb> hah no they're just personal.
Jan 23 23:05:30 <Pali> yes, on n900 there are two watchdogs
Jan 23 23:05:41 <ceene> he probably wants to read them once in a while to remember not to go back to her :P
Jan 23 23:05:41 <jon_y> ok~
Jan 23 23:05:48 <Pali> you can disable them by R&D flags in NOLO
Jan 23 23:06:32 <ceene> oh, i could live with them enabled... but how do i reset them?
Jan 23 23:07:16 <jon_y> same way as you set them?
Jan 23 23:07:43 <ceene> jon_y: i'm not the one that sets them :) they're hardware watchdogs that must be notified that the operating system is still alive
Jan 23 23:08:24 <Pali> ceene: via userspace, open /dev/watchdog<N> devices and periodically call needed IOCTL
Jan 23 23:08:29 <jon_y> oh you mean watchdog ticks
Jan 23 23:08:39 <jon_y> I thought you mean R&D flags
Jan 23 23:08:45 <jon_y> yeah /dev/watchdog
Jan 23 23:09:04 <jon_y> \0 to tickle it
Jan 23 23:09:05 <Pali> via R&D flag you can tell NOLO to disable them before booting kernel
Jan 23 23:09:06 <ceene> is there any exiting code for that or should i create them myself?
Jan 23 23:09:16 <jon_y> I think 'v' to close it
Jan 23 23:09:27 <jon_y> yeah you can do this through scripts
Jan 23 23:09:35 <jon_y> but the proper interface is via ioctl
Jan 23 23:09:35 <Pali> in bootmenu package is my "watchdogs" binary daemon for it
Jan 23 23:09:49 <Pali> you can reuse it
Jan 23 23:09:54 <ceene> ok, thanks
Jan 23 23:10:07 <ceene> i'll see if there's something on buildroot, as that'll be easier for me right now
Jan 23 23:10:19 <ceene> but it's good to know where's a working reference
Jan 23 23:10:51 <Pali> ceene: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=bootmenu;a=blob;f=src/watchdogs.c
Jan 23 23:11:16 <Pali> ioctl WDIOC_KEEPALIVE
Jan 23 23:11:49 <ceene> great, thanks!
Jan 23 23:11:52 <Pali> there is also ioctl for disabling watchdog (if driver supports it)
Jan 23 23:12:01 <Pali> and our drivers and HW support it!
Jan 23 23:12:12 <ceene> cool :)
Jan 23 23:12:45 <ceene> i see libcal is used for that
Jan 23 23:12:59 <Pali> on N8x0 devices watchdogs cannot be disabled once started
Jan 23 23:13:12 <Pali> libcal is used only to check if R&D mode is enabled
Jan 23 23:13:25 <jon_y> kernel docs in Documentation/watchdog.txt also mentions it
Jan 23 23:13:40 <Pali> and just it skip watchdog device if special R&D flag is set
Jan 23 23:14:03 <ceene> i see busybox has its own wathdog support http://code.metager.de/source/xref/busybox/miscutils/watchdog.c
Jan 23 23:21:24 <fishbulb> how difficult would it be to "phreak" the n900
Jan 23 23:21:55 <fishbulb> it's really a little linux computer which is kind of easier to "hack" than some modern smartphones
Jan 23 23:22:50 <fishbulb> considering this thing remains linux while modern phones have massive teams putting out updates every time an exploit is found
Jan 23 23:23:00 <fishbulb> so they say.
Jan 23 23:36:45 <Maxdamantus> fishbulb: you can build a mainline kernel and boot a standard armel Debian installation on it.
Jan 23 23:36:52 <ceene> well, gotta go to sleep now
Jan 23 23:36:58 <ceene> i'll be testing all this tomorrow
Jan 23 23:37:00 <ceene> cya!
Jan 23 23:37:03 <Maxdamantus> with Xorg working etc
Jan 24 00:04:42 <fishbulb> I don't really like debian
Jan 24 00:05:16 <fishbulb> maxdamantus would it still do phone stuff then?
Jan 24 00:05:49 <Maxdamantus> fishbulb: potentially.
Jan 24 00:06:02 <fishbulb> I don't like the potentially part
Jan 24 00:06:13 <fishbulb> the best is still "what it came with"
Jan 24 00:06:18 <Maxdamantus> Debian has ofono in its repositories, which comes with example scripts to do things like send/receive SMSes and make calls.
Jan 24 00:06:42 <fishbulb> sounds like poor battery life and at BEST an irritating interface
Jan 24 00:06:55 <Maxdamantus> (I think I heard earlier this week that you can pretty much make calls in mainline)
Jan 24 00:07:33 <Maxdamantus> Yeah. I'm not sure what there is in the way of convenient UIs around something like ofono.
Jan 24 00:07:46 <Maxdamantus> which aren't highly coupled with larger phone OS packages.
Jan 24 00:08:49 <fishbulb> does maemo run on anything else
Jan 24 00:08:59 <fishbulb> actually what would the point even be.
Jan 24 00:09:59 <Maxdamantus> The point would be to not be locked in to a bunch of highly coupled software.
Jan 24 00:14:07 <andril> hello
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 24 02:59:59 2016